Abusive Spiritual Healer

[simonmaal]

This week's edition of "so disgusting you couldn't make it up" comes courtesy of a certain "John of God", who bills himself as a spiritual healer with the ability to cure aids and cancer. I first got alerted to this abusive scum by receiving a spam e-mail from him. I have reproduced the e-mail in full, including the link to his site.

Take a look at the e-mail and the site: this is one to make your blood boil.

John of God - Powerfull Healer (João de Deus) so fondly named

* John of God has healed millions of people over the years, directly or indirectly

* For over 50 years John of God has dedicated himself as a powerful spirit healing medium and psychic surgeon, sometimes at great personal cost

* Still today John of God treats many people in his sanctuary "Casa De Dom Inácio" and the healing energies are as strong as ever in Abadiania, the village that hosts the healing centre

* John of God has a 85% success rate, which is higher than the western medical profession

* Top U.S. medical scientists have conducted extensive studies and confirm that John of God's work is successful. However, due to the spiritual nature of this work it remains undefinable within the boundaries of current medical understandings

* Many serious cancers (even the terminal so called incurable ones) tumours, hiv & aids, motor neuron disease, enviromental disease, the lame and many many more types of disease including addictions, (like drugs and alcohol) and pyschological disturbances, obessions and negative spirit attachments, have been healed by visiting John of God at his "spiritual hospital in" Brazil

To find out more please visit and watch the You Tube video which helps to explain.
http://www.johnofgod-brazil.com

We are spreading the knowledge of his work to reach out to those people in suffering. For some people this news may change there lifes.

This list is rarely used. You can unsubscribe here

[george@etcorngods.co]

Sounds like the guy ought to work on Wall Street. I don't know why you call him an "abusive scum". He has a successful business, a following -- like all the churches, mosques, temples in the world. Lots of folks think this site (randi.org) is full of dangerous folks. I have had personal experience with this type of healing which worked -- and experience with some that didn't work.

[CFLarsen]

Sounds like the guy ought to work on Wall Street. I don't know why you call him an "abusive scum". He has a successful business, a following -- like all the churches, mosques, temples in the world.

Does that mean you think John of God can heal people by supernatural means?

Lots of folks think this site (randi.org) is full of dangerous folks. I have had personal experience with this type of healing which worked -- and experience with some that didn't work.

How do you know it was the healing that worked?

What is the name of the healer?

Can you show evidence that the healer did heal you?

[simonmaal]

Sounds like the guy ought to work on Wall Street. I don't know why you call him an "abusive scum". He has a successful business <snip>

Ah I see one of his PR people has caught onto this thread and created a new account as a result. He is abusive scum because he claims to be able to cure cancer and AIDS: he is a conman giving false hope to people (and relieving them of vast amounts of money in the process, something that you seem to think is a good thing).

a following -- like all the churches, mosques, temples in the world. And that is a good thing because...?

Lots of folks think this site (randi.org) is full of dangerous folks. Oh dear, you really are his PR guy aren't you?

I have had personal experience with this type of healing which worked -- and experience with some that didn't work.So what? I have had personal experience with Jev the invisible teddy bear. I tap my ears three times a night (this is called thogging and is how I communicate with His Divine Beariness); I thog that my house will not burn down and so far, it remains in one piece. Therefore, I know my caniform deity is real, and I know the process works because, so far, my house has not burned down. Of course, I cannot prove his existence but you cannot disprove it either. Now, I am joking of course, but the thought process I just described is of a similar level to your "evidence".

This John of God is a conman peddling spiritual snake oil to vulnerable and desperate people.

[Cuddles]

Lots of folks think this site (randi.org) is full of dangerous folks.

Of course they think that. Conmen rely on people not knowing they are being conned. People who explain cons to others are a danger to their business. If he really could do the things he claims, no amount of criticism from people here would be a problem. We are only a danger to him if he is lying.

[sophia8]

Ah I see one of his PR people has caught onto this thread and created a new account as a result. No, I don't think so. But George does seem to be special:
In 1985 George R. Simpson, a notable engineer and inventor, was "visited" by extraterrestrial contact. He was told that there was a hidden language imbedded in the English language and that it was his job to determine the decoding rules for revealing the hidden meanings and teach the world about the hidden messages. Simpson has worked twenty years on this important project, first to uncover the code, then to document the decoding structure and translated messages.

Simpson found that, indeed, the hidden language has been encrypted in English words by "God". This is an unprecedented appearance of "God" - to teach mankind. The decoded words/messages are often corny, silly, fun, and something very boring; they are always brutally true criticisms of our present world. The Holy Bible has been coded by "God" to contain thousands, if not millions, of hidden meanings. The extent of the hidden meanings is indeed Overwhelming.
From www.etcorngods.com (http://www.etcorngods.com/)

[simonmaal]

No, I don't think so. But George does seem to be special:

From www.etcorngods.com (http://www.etcorngods.com/)

:jaw-dropp I am still trying to work out if this site is a windup, the work of a genuine nutjob or a con. Ah hang on, I think I have the answer to that one after reading more of the pseudo-intellectual piffle on the site:

When you study the ET Corn Gods Language, and play the ET Corn Gods Game, you will discover that there are extensive trees of hidden meanings contained in the structure of each word of the English Language. These encrypted meanings are the result of a sting on the human race...
Download ET Corn Gods Game for $19.95! The last sentence I quoted answers that question.

Anyway, back to this John of God conman....

[george@etcorngods.co]

I have healed people myself -- and failed to heal, also. Do i think the Brazil guy can heal? I don't know. Probably not. I don't have time to ck it out.
Churches are terrible con jobs. Randi has setup a form of Church himself. Millions of people have experienced sighting of UFOs and he says that's not paranormal. How about all those crop circles? Something like half of the population have had personal experiences which suggest to them that there is something more than the present/physical world.
Yes the ET Corn Gods Game is proof of the Paranormal. Go to my site. I believe that my discoveries will change the world. You guys might end up helping, whether you like it or not.
Precoded words in the English language, that's impossible -- that's proof of Paranormal.

george, you may not use this forum to advertise your product.

[simonmaal]

I have healed people myself -- and failed to heal, also. Do i think the Brazil guy can heal? I don't know. Probably not. I don't have time to ck it out.

Then why comment one it? Unless, of course, you are using this forum to market your dumb game. Ah, hang on, your subsequent comments answer that quite nicely:

Churches are terrible con jobs. Randi has setup a form of Church himself. Millions of people have experienced sighting of UFOs and he says that's not paranormal. How about all those crop circles? Something like half of the population have had personal experiences which suggest to them that there is something more than the present/physical world.
Yes the ET Corn Gods Game is proof of the Paranormal. Go to my site. I believe that my discoveries will change the world. You guys might end up helping, whether you like it or not.
Precoded words in the English language, that's impossible -- that's proof of Paranormal.Um, ok, nod, nod...(Simon smiles politely and backs away very slowly)

[george@etcorngods.co]

i don't like someone to be called an "abusive scum", neither do i like my 22 years of work to be passed off by a "critical thinker" with a "Um, ok, nod ...".
Makes you sound like an "abusive scam".
I'd be glad to teach you and others the language, and let you decide for yourself. It is involved and a painful intelectual experience to do well. I am an inventor and have found that it takes a long time to do something important. I invented the 1st Display Word Processor, the forerunner of the PC.
Lots of things i invented didn't make it.

[This Guy]

i don't like someone to be called an "abusive scum", neither do i like my 22 years of work to be passed off by a "critical thinker" with a "Um, ok, nod ...".
Makes you sound like an "abusive scam".
I'd be glad to teach you and others the language, and let you decide for yourself. It is involved and a painful intelectual experience to do well. I am an inventor and have found that it takes a long time to do something important. I invented the 1st Display Word Processor, the forerunner of the PC.
Lots of things i invented didn't make it.

Well, I think you'll have a better chance of convincing us that anything you say is true, by showing some evidence.

Until then, I'm leaning to the conman/nut case side. Nothing personal. Just calling it the way I see it.

Since this thread is about that other conman, John of God (who I believe has been shown at least once to be a conman), I'd suggest starting a new thread to offer evidence of what you claim.

Looking forward to seeing your proof :)

[Cuddles]

i don't like someone to be called an "abusive scum", neither do i like my 22 years of work to be passed off by a "critical thinker" with a "Um, ok, nod ...".

Perhaps you should try doing work that is vaguely worthwhile and at is least close enough to the real world that you can see it on a clear day. If you try to make money with bible codes you'll be lucky if "Um, Ok" is the most abuse you recieve.

Makes you sound like an "abusive scam".

Ah, the old "I know you are but what am I?" argument. That's really going to help make your case.

[simonmaal]

i don't like someone to be called an "abusive scum", neither do i like my 22 years of work to be passed off by a "critical thinker" with a "Um, ok, nod ...".
Makes you sound like an "abusive scam".
I'd be glad to teach you and others the language, and let you decide for yourself. It is involved and a painful intelectual experience to do well. I am an inventor and have found that it takes a long time to do something important. I invented the 1st Display Word Processor, the forerunner of the PC.
Lots of things i invented didn't make it.

Please stop hijacking this thread with your inane, self-aggrandising rhetoric. I have no desire whatsoever to discuss your poppycock ideas in this thread. If you want to discuss this further, please start your own thread or at least post in a thread where your comments are valid.

And as I see it, your post violates the membership agreement for 2 reasons: firstly you are repeatedly peddling a product, and I include your user name as part of this process (therefore breaking rule 3) and your off-topic boasting also violates rule 11 about off-topic posting:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=90347

If you continue to hijack this thread, I will probably add you to my ignore list and report you for breaking the rules.

Now, about this John of God character...

[Cuddles]

I've added a "john of god" tag that links to a couple of past threads about him.

[simonmaal]

I've added a "john of god" tag that links to a couple of past threads about him.

Thanks, I will check it out now.

[Katana]

For some people this news may change there lifes.


Well, with spelling like that, who would dare question?

[This Guy]

I know Randi has debunked John, I'm not sure that what I'm linking to here is authentic, but it's from 1998, and appears to be from Randi -

http://www.mindspring.com/~anson/randi-hotline/1998/0002.html

Here's some more recent stuff from Randi on John -

http://www.randi.org/jr/021805a.html

Sounds to me like he's about as authentic as Benny Hinn, just using some different dramatics in his shows.

And this link is the results of a search on the JREF for John of God. List both commentary and forum links.

http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/JREF?q=john+of+god&q2=-intitle%3AForums&q2=-intitle%3AForum&sa=Go!

[prewitt81]

I'd be glad to teach you and others the language, and let you decide for yourself.

Would you be glad to do this for free?

[CFLarsen]

I have healed people myself -- and failed to heal, also.

How do you know it was the healing that worked?

What is the name of the healer?

Can you show evidence that the healer did heal you?

Do i think the Brazil guy can heal? I don't know. Probably not. I don't have time to ck it out.

Then, stop using John of God as an example of someone who can heal.

Churches are terrible con jobs. Randi has setup a form of Church himself. Millions of people have experienced sighting of UFOs and he says that's not paranormal. How about all those crop circles?

How about all those crop circles that turned out to be the work of humans?

Something like half of the population have had personal experiences which suggest to them that there is something more than the present/physical world.
Yes the ET Corn Gods Game is proof of the Paranormal. Go to my site. I believe that my discoveries will change the world. You guys might end up helping, whether you like it or not.
Precoded words in the English language, that's impossible -- that's proof of Paranormal.

I've been there. Open a new thread, and we can discuss it there.

i don't like someone to be called an "abusive scum", neither do i like my 22 years of work to be passed off by a "critical thinker" with a "Um, ok, nod ...".
Makes you sound like an "abusive scam".
I'd be glad to teach you and others the language, and let you decide for yourself. It is involved and a painful intelectual experience to do well. I am an inventor and have found that it takes a long time to do something important. I invented the 1st Display Word Processor, the forerunner of the PC.
Lots of things i invented didn't make it.

In the thread you will open, you can also provide evidencce that you invented the first display word processor.

[simonmaal]

I really enjoyed this calculation:

John of God...claims that he has cured 15 million people in 35 years of
practice...Working 8 hours a day,taking no lunch hour, 6 full days a week for 35 years, taking no holidays at all, he would have to "heal" ONE PERSON EVERY 21 SECONDS of every minute of every hour of every day he worked, with no time off, and no failures! Can you really accept that?

Even before we consider the complete lack of evidence of this huckster's success rate, these figures alone speak volumes. His consultations must be extremely fast, especially given the time it would take to get a patient into and out of the consultation chair. It must be like an industrial production line! We could do with him over here in England to shorten our medical waiting lists!

The considerably less amusing part of the tale is this:

The tours run a couple thousand dollars, though the tour operators are coy about actually naming prices. Their instructions to would-be visitors who apply for visas, is to not mention that they're going to Brazil for this purpose, because the government does not encourage such trips.

[This Guy]

Just an FYI, George@whatever PM'ed me for help starting a thread of his own. I replied with what help I could offer, and suggested he start it in General Skepticism and The Paranormal.

If/when he does, if I'm still awake (was a long night for me:)) I'll post a link to it in this thread.

[george@etcorngods.co]

Would you be glad to do this for free?
yes, for free

[george@etcorngods.co]

Just an FYI, George@whatever PM'ed me for help starting a thread of his own. I replied with what help I could offer, and suggested he start it in General Skepticism and The Paranormal.

If/when he does, if I'm still awake (was a long night for me:)) I'll post a link to it in this thread.
thanks

[JonWhite]

Just an FYI, George@whatever PM'ed me for help starting a thread of his own. I replied with what help I could offer, and suggested he start it in General Skepticism and The Paranormal.



So the guy who invented the 1st Display Word Processor, discovered amazing pre-coded words in the English language and has a talent for healing can't figure out how to use the "New Thread" button?

I'm confused (although this happens increasingly frequently). :confused:

[george@etcorngods.co]

How do you know it was the healing that worked?

What is the name of the healer?

Can you show evidence that the healer did heal you?



Then, stop using John of God as an example of someone who can heal.



How about all those crop circles that turned out to be the work of humans?



I've been there. Open a new thread, and we can discuss it there.



In the thread you will open, you can also provide evidencce that you invented the first display word processor.
I was the healer.
How did i now they were healed? I was there. I healed 5 people or so. I failed on more than 5. The most dramatic was Eliz Olsen, the 11 year daughter of one of my fraternity brothers, Dick Olsen. We were living in Westport Ct. (terrible place) I was the girl scout leader of a bunch of 3rd of 4th graders. Liz was in the troop. She had brain cancer. Her head was bald from the treatments.
Her father called me one day (almost crying). He said that he was beside himself, the doctor had given up on curing Liz. He had given her weeks, if not days to live. '
I had just "cured" my wife's stepmother of a cronic bleeding condition and another lessor ailment.
I told my friend to come over and i'd try it on Liz.
He and Liz came over, i did my thing (my wife was also there). Dick called me several days later. He said that he had taken Liz for a check up, and the tumor was gone. The doctor said he had never seen anything like it.
Liz's parents never talked to me about. This type of thing spooks most people and they don't want to talk about it.
I wasn't using John of God as an example of healing that works, just saying don't trash everyone who has a claim you don't understand.

[This Guy]

So the guy who invented the 1st Display Word Processor, discovered amazing pre-coded words in the English language and has a talent for healing can't figure out how to use the "New Thread" button?

I'm confused (although this happens increasingly frequently). :confused:

In his defense, he may have been more interested in content suggestions than technical help. And perhaps he's new to forums.

Don't know, but I'm trying not to judge :)

[JonWhite]

Ah OK, thanks.

I'm just looking forward to the thread. :)

[fls]

I was the healer.
How did i now they were healed? I was there. I healed 5 people or so. I failed on more than 5. The most dramatic was Eliz Olsen, the 11 year daughter of one of my fraternity brothers, Dick Olsen. We were living in Westport Ct. (terrible place) I was the girl scout leader of a bunch of 3rd of 4th graders. Liz was in the troop. She had brain cancer. Her head was bald from the treatments.
Her father called me one day (almost crying). He said that he was beside himself, the doctor had given up on curing Liz. He had given her weeks, if not days to live. '
I had just "cured" my wife's stepmother of a cronic bleeding condition and another lessor ailment.
I told my friend to come over and i'd try it on Liz.
He and Liz came over, i did my thing (my wife was also there). Dick called me several days later. He said that he had taken Liz for a check up, and the tumor was gone. The doctor said he had never seen anything like it.
Liz's parents never talked to me about. This type of thing spooks most people and they don't want to talk about it.
I wasn't using John of God as an example of healing that works, just saying don't trash everyone who has a claim you don't understand.

I am responding to this here as it is relevant to all faith healers.

You have simply told us a story of a young girl recovering from a brain tumor with conventional treatment. At one point during this recovery, the father misunderstood what the doctor told him and panicked.

I treat a lot of patients with cancer. I do this sort of thing over and over and over again - ask the patient what the oncologist (the cancer specialist) told them, and then look at the chart notes to see what the oncologist really said or was thinking. Your story is absolutely typical of what happens - what was said or what was meant bears little relation to what gets passed on second, third, or fourth-hand.

This is one of several common ways that people are fooled into thinking a faith-healer has had an effect.

Linda

[george@etcorngods.co]

I am responding to this here as it is relevant to all faith healers.

You have simply told us a story of a young girl recovering from a brain tumor with conventional treatment. At one point during this recovery, the father misunderstood what the doctor told him and panicked.

I treat a lot of patients with cancer. I do this sort of thing over and over and over again - ask the patient what the oncologist (the cancer specialist) told them, and then look at the chart notes to see what the oncologist really said or was thinking. Your story is absolutely typical of what happens - what was said or what was meant bears little relation to what gets passed on second, third, or fourth-hand.

This is one of several common ways that people are fooled into thinking a faith-healer has had an effect.

Linda
Linda
the doctor was quoted in the local Westport paper as saying that he had no idea how Liz's tumor went away.
If this sort of thing hasn't happened to you, or you didn't witness it, you think it is BS, not an act of God -- who says that you can't have an act of god without absolute proof.
This is Randi's biggest problem.
In our society, Witness is key. Two people witness a shooting and the shooter goes to jail, but thousands of people witness UFO's and that's BS and not real because of a "lack of real evidence".

[simonmaal]

I was the healer.
How did i now they were healed? I was there. I healed 5 people or so. I failed on more than 5. The most dramatic was Eliz Olsen, the 11 year daughter of one of my fraternity brothers, Dick Olsen. We were living in Westport Ct. (terrible place) I was the girl scout leader of a bunch of 3rd of 4th graders. Liz was in the troop. She had brain cancer. Her head was bald from the treatments.

Well none of us were there so can you now please back up your claims with testimonials from the people who you claimed to have cured and with evidence from the medical establishment? The latter is the only real evidence that I will take seriously; the testimonials are really to verify that these people knew you and are not simply made up names. They would, I imagine, be extremely excited about a breakthrough of this nature.

Her father called me one day (almost crying). Why did he phone you? Do you advertise your services?

He said that he was beside himself, the doctor had given up on curing Liz. He had given her weeks, if not days to live. '
I had just "cured" my wife's stepmother of a cronic bleeding condition and another lessor ailment.
I told my friend to come over and i'd try it on Liz.
He and Liz came over, i did my thing (my wife was also there). Dick called me several days later. He said that he had taken Liz for a check up, and the tumor was gone. The doctor said he had never seen anything like it.
Liz's parents never talked to me about. This type of thing spooks most people and they don't want to talk about it.
I wasn't using John of God as an example of healing that works, just saying don't trash everyone who has a claim you don't understand.First of all, please do not make the deeply arrogant assumption that people are disagreeing with or disbelieving you because they do not understand. This kind of supercilious disclaimer when accompanied by unverified anecdote, outrageous claims and sloppy thinking, really annoys scientists.

You should know that I was once, to my shame, a practitioner of woo therapies (I was a level 2 Reiki practitioner). I slowly moved away from them as the evidence in their favour simply did not stack up. Not only were these therapies not supported by evidence, but they were downright dangerous, in that they might discourage people from seeking proper medical care. Now, I never once discouraged anybody from seeing a doctor (I dealt with emotional issues more than physical). Nor did I ever make outrageous claims, but that does not alter the fact that what I did might have discouraged people from seeking medical help (luckily it did not, but that was down to luck rather than good judgement). I did observe what appeared to be miraculous changes, but these need to be understood in the context of what I am about to say next.

The three things that opened my eyes were the phenomena of spontaneous remission, the placebo effect and the fact that any condition (psychological or physical) will tend to move in cycles (you feel better one day then worse the next). The fourth factor is the confirmation bias; the fact that people pay for therapies means they will want them to work; also our erroneous belief that we can influence the universe by carrying out irrelevant actions and rituals means that we will attribute any success to the therapy. Now, I firmly believed that what I was doing was making a difference, and so did my clients. But science (in the form of a double blind trial) does away with this kind of biased thinking and controls for these four variables as much as possible. And when science consistently shows healing to be ineffective, it is time to listen.

So please, sir, do not patronise me with accusations that I do not understand healing; I have been there and done that.

[simonmaal]

Linda
the doctor was quoted in the local Westport paper as saying that he had no idea how Liz's tumor went away.

So this counts as evidence? That is preposterous! I have explained spontaneous remission in my lengthy reply to you and we also need to consider many other factors before we can give the credit to paranormal forces.

If this sort of thing hasn't happened to you, or you didn't witness it, you think it is BS, not an act of God -- who says that you can't have an act of god without absolute proof. What can be asserted without evidence can be refuted without evidence.

This is Randi's biggest problem. No. Randi's biggest "problem" (if it brings you some comfort to describe him in that way) is that he is involved in bringing rational thinking to a world rife with the kind of abuse that John of God or Peter Popoff or "George" profit from. When people's dishonest cash cow is stopped in its tracks, they tend to get upset. So faith healers and the like, none of whom has ever demonstrated any kind of healing power when subjected to rigorous testing, rely on the general public's gullibility. When people like Randi, Derren Brown, Richard Dawkins (and me) decide to get the results out there, the con artists panic and cry foul.

In our society, Witness is key. Two people witness a shooting and the shooter goes to jail, but thousands of people witness UFO's and that's BS and not real because of a "lack of real evidence".I shake my head at this last metaphor, I really do :rolleyes:

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

John of God one of the most despicable con men in the world. He's one of my pet peeves, the few people that simply make my blood boil, up there with Sylvia Browne, Benny Hinn, John Edward and Mother Teresa.

I've told this story before but I have a friend who visited this village of his in Brazil with her friend and mother to seek help for cysts she had had for a long time and her mother's chronic back pain. I didn't know about it, she told me they were visiting some boyfriend in Brazil and didn't find out what they were there for until much later. So John performed his usual tricks on them onstage and my friend proclaimed that she didn't have the cysts any more and that the experience was amazing and how incredible John of God is, etc.

Needless to say, absolutely nothing was cured, not even her stupidity. It spread and she had to undergo major surgery for it more than a year after the trip to Brazil and even when she was receiving proper attention, she was still going to faith healers! And her kooky friend swears to this day by John of God.

Her mother claims she was permamently healed of her back pain and has stuck to that story even though she has pretty much seen that her daughter wasn't helped and was stupid for putting off seeking real help so long.

[fls]

Linda
the doctor was quoted in the local Westport paper as saying that he had no idea how Liz's tumor went away.

Excellent. More unsubstantiated second, third, and fourth-hand reports.

If this sort of thing hasn't happened to you, or you didn't witness it, you think it is BS, not an act of God -- who says that you can't have an act of god without absolute proof.
This is Randi's biggest problem.
In our society, Witness is key. Two people witness a shooting and the shooter goes to jail, but thousands of people witness UFO's and that's BS and not real because of a "lack of real evidence".

You misunderstand. I have witnessed this thing many times. It is because I have had first-hand opportunity to investigate that I think I understand it.

Your analogy is also incorrect. If two people say they witness a shooting, but there is no other evidence of a shooting (no dead body, no blood, no shooter) nobody goes to jail. And even my analogy is incorrect, as there is at least independent evidence that shootings exist.

I think you need to meet David Hume.

Linda

[fuelair]

Lots of folks think this site (randi.org) is full of dangerous folks. .
I certainly hope we are - and far more so than you dare think.

[This Guy]

OK, george@etcorngods.co has his thread started.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=91938