The French at War

[headscratcher4]

NOTE: THIS IS POSTED PURELY FOR THE "AMUSEMENT" VALUE -- this was floating around Washington, D.C. emails today, I thought it amusing in a blind-nationalist sort of way....



French Military Prowess Revisited

By Anonymous
From the Net | February 10, 2003

President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld may be upset that the French are not "assisting" us in this fight, but out here at the tip of the spear, there is nothing but jubilation at their absence. Last thing we need is to be carrying the French on our shoulders.

A cursory review of French military history reveals the following:

1 - Gallic Wars - Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2,000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

2 - Hundred Years War - Mostly lost, saved at last by a female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare: "French armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman."

3 - Italian Wars - Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.

4 - Wars of Religion - France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots.

5 - Thirty Years War - France is technically not a participant but still manages to get invaded. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

6 - War of Devolution - Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

7 - The Dutch War - Tied. Dutch farmers and tulip growers are tougher than they look.

8 - War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War - Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Francophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

9 - War of the Spanish Succession - Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.

10 - American Revolution - In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; " France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

11 - French Revolution - Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

12 - The Napoleonic Wars - Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for the Russian winter, Prussian grenadiers or a British footwear designer.

13 - The Franco-Prussian War - Lost. For the first, but certainly not the last time, Germany plays the role of drunk frat boy to France 's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

14 - World War I - Invaded, humiliated and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Winds up a tie for les francaise. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, the American fascination with personal hygiene (a fascination totally foreign to French women) incites widespread use of condoms by American soldiers, thus precluding any improvement in the French bloodline.

15 - World War II - A decisive defeat even by French standards. Hitler and the German Youth spend Christmas time sleeping soundly through the winter, then arouse themselves to conquer France in six weeks. Hitler dances in front of the Eiffel Tower, while the French command staff retreats to Algeria to institute a crash language program to teach French privates how to say "I surrender" in German and French generals to say "We surrender" in German. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song and some small portion of the German work ethic. De Gaulle of it all...

16 - First Vietnamese war (in Vietnamese circles, known as "the scrimmage", or "the exhibition game" where the varsity squad is kept on the sideline to see how the second string will play) - Lost. French soldiers, fresh off their four year occupation by the Germans, catch a terminal case of Dien Bien Flu.

17 - Algerian rebellion - Lost. First time an Arab army has beaten a Western army since the Crusades, and produces the first rule of modern Islamic warfare: "We can always beat the French." A nice phrase, but it lacks something in originality, since it is also the first rule of warfare for the Italians, Russians, Prussians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese, Native Americans and capitalists.

18 - War on Terrorism - Lost. Incensed at not being included in the original "Axis of Evil," France refuses to participate. When it becomes clear that this is a "no-kidding war," Jacques Chirac looks at his cards and immediately surrenders to that old warhorse, Gerhard Schroeder. For good measure, he also surrenders to five million illegal immigrants from Algeria.

The moral of the story is - give thanks to God on high that the French are not helping us!

[Wolverine]

:D :D :D

Needed the laugh, thanks.

[rikzilla]

Grady,

Did you see the Humvees with the rocket launchers by the Pentagon? There's supposed to be more along 14th Street, the White House, and Capitol.

I thought this code orange stuff was a joke, but now my terminal site has been declared critical....Worldcom's making us work overtime to double-cover shifts from now till at least next tuesday. I checked with our co-workers in New York and the other terminals in SF and Miami....none of them are going into this posture. Just us....the guys here think it's cause they're expecting us to be a target.....kinda creepy. But I can use the extra $. :D

I guess the terrorists will either kill me, or make me finally able to pay off my credit cards!! :D ;) I've never seen this joint so busy! Give me a call sometime....it's past time for us to have another MadHatter lunch!

-Rick

[headscratcher4]

Yes, it is getting a little freaky around here...However, working as close to the White House as I do, I feel oddly secure during the day...I figure this is pretty well patrolled ground. Not sure I'd want to be hanging out at Pentagon City or some of the museums, however....:(

Added: I live on Capitol Hill, the patrols have increased considerably, and many more 'copters in the air last night...anyone want to buy some realestate?:(

[Reginald]

War is much too serious a matter to be entrusted to the military.
-- French Proverb


Makes ya wonder.

[Number Six]

An English guy once told me a joke that went like this:

Q. Why do French tanks have forward gears?

A. In case the enemy attacks from behind.

[rikzilla]

What's that other old joke


Ad in Germany after the fall of France:

"Used French rifles...great condition....only dropped once"

-z

[corplinx]

Originally posted by rikzilla
What's that other old joke


Ad in Germany after the fall of France:

"Used French rifles...great condition....only dropped once"

-z

Thats no joke. I actually have a French 1932s pistol. French ww2 arms were sold in pristine condition to american military surplus dealers. The guns were barely scratched in most cases.

In the case of the 1932s, you had a pistol that was prone to jam, was an insufficient caliber, and had insuffucient velocity. If the French hadn't surrended in WW2, there would certainly be far fewer French today. They didn't have the weapons to compete with germany.

Of course, that is no excuse since that meant Germany would have more supplies and troops for the UK war. Surrendering only transfers the problem to the next country in line.

[Reginald]

The latest load of old shiBe comming out of the French this evening.

I wonder just what it will take to sway some people....

On a very well presented BBC prog, looking at many details of the potential war with Iraq, comprising a panel of major "players" as it were and an audience of other interested parties. We had the Typical French MP (Huddled up next to the German I might add) who was determined to simply be negative in an almost pythonesque way.

When It was put to the MP that his country may have a different view of the whole thing had the 9/11 planes crashed into some building in Paris (the Eiffel tower was not the best choice of example in my opinion since it effectively is uninhabited) He responded to the effect of "No we wouldn't, we have had terrorism in the past".

On the scale of 9/11?? I dont think so! Unless of course he means that only one French person died out of the 3000, in which case he is possibly right, I was totally against this war, but their lack of sympathy has completely changed my mind in the last few months.

And from a more personal standpoint, following the arrest of a group of people producing Ricin a mere 5 miles from where I live, I am pleased to say that the French have looked at it and concluded...

"It was bad quality, not technically sophisticated."

Oh thats ok then, I'll tell the kids not to worry, after all its duff batch.

People have been leveling the "Its for the oil" critisism at the US gov. all the way through this, but I tell you this, when it comes to putting your interests above and beyond your responsibilities as a human being, the french take the biscuit! OR should that be croissant???

(Again, flame away.......I am not happy)

:mad:

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Reginald
And from a more personal standpoint, following the arrest of a group of people producing Ricin a mere 5 miles from where I live, I am pleased to say that the French have looked at it and concluded...

"It was bad quality, not technically sophisticated."



Thats because our English ricin doesnt recieve such massive CAP subsidies.

[Starshark]

From Viz magazine:

"Like the British, the French also have a proud naval history. By far their greatest victory came in (forgot the year, sorry), when they sunk the unarmed Greenpeace vessel, the Rainbow Warrior, in New Zealand."

[Starshark]

Personally, I like the French. But I can't resist putting a kick in when everyone else is jumpin' on them at the same time. :D

[corplinx]

I will say this, I admire the _resolve_ of our Ally UK. They uncover the ricin plot and the next day Tony Blair is emoting the message of vigilance.

Conversely, the french had a boat attacked by terrorists about a month ago and they surrendered within minutes. France is just a whipped dog.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Starshark
From Viz magazine:

"Like the British, the French also have a proud naval history. By far their greatest victory came in (forgot the year, sorry), when they sunk the unarmed Greenpeace vessel, the Rainbow Warrior, in New Zealand."

The Frogs are still sour because in 1940 we sank their navy at Mers-El-Kebir. Haha. :D

[armageddonman]

Originally posted by Starshark
From Viz magazine:

"Like the British, the French also have a proud naval history. By far their greatest victory came in (forgot the year, sorry), when they sunk the unarmed Greenpeace vessel, the Rainbow Warrior, in New Zealand."


Incorrect. It was the french secret service who did that.

[Jon_in_london]

Prolly the most illustrious French warship was the Temeraire.
It had a wonderfull carreer after it was captured by the Royal Navy :cool:

[Mike B.]

Well they did fight hard at Verdun in 1916 didn't they?

I mean they would have lost had not the British sacrificed themselves at the Somme to take the pressure off, but they did fight well...

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by armageddonman
Incorrect. It was the french secret service who did that.
Not only that, the French secret service helped stop Godzilla.

(Remember the recent North American version of the movie)

[headscratcher4]

Well, you have to admit they were very noble throughout most of WWII -- Sartre thought some really bad thoughts about Germans as he sat in the Cafe de' Flore, and some even considered that maybe helping the Germans wasn't the proper thing to do as they rounded up Paris Jews and marched them off the the Velodome....(but, they knew that the Germans could handle the problem so much more efficiently)...

[Flo]

Originally posted by headscratcher4
Well, you have to admit they were very noble throughout most of WWII -- Sartre thought some really bad thoughts about Germans as he sat in the Cafe de' Flore, and some even considered that maybe helping the Germans wasn't the proper thing to do as they rounded up Paris Jews and marched them off the the Velodome....(but, they knew that the Germans could handle the problem so much more efficiently)...


Extremely funny ... I'll think about it next time I drive past the monuments between Saint-André de Corcy and l'Arbresle, around Lyon, where a few dozen French patriots were shot by German troops between 1942 and 1944 ... probably for their "lack of efficency" in delivering Jews ...:mad:

and here's an answer from a "cheese eating surrender monkey" http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,894533,00.html

[Giz]

Originally posted by Flo



Extremely funny ... I'll think about it next time I drive past the monuments between Saint-André de Corcy and l'Arbresle, around Lyon, where a few dozen French patriots were shot by German troops between 1942 and 1944 ... probably for their "lack of efficency" in delivering Jews ...:mad:

Oooh, I was wondering where the few dozen French patriots had got to. They must have sprained their ankles and had to sit out 1940.

[Flo]

Originally posted by Giz


Oooh, I was wondering where the few dozen French patriots had got to. They must have sprained their ankles and had to sit out 1940.


Funnnier and funnier ...

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Flo



Funnnier and funnier ...

Ignore it Flo. There has been a a real nasty undercurrent of xenophobia on this forum recently, and not just from Jedi Knight. Don't take them seriously.

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Flo

and here's an answer from a "cheese eating surrender monkey" http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,894533,00.html
That was funny.

I like the way the author used a visit to Berkeley (that bastion of balanced thought) as a measure of how people view the upcoming conflict with Iraq. (Sarcasm intended...)

The problems that I myself have with france are twofold:
- Their importance is overestimated, both by themselves and the world at large. They are on the UN security council, even though there are other countries which are much more influential in the world.
- They (as a nation) act hypocritically. Yes, every nation does it; its just that because they overestimate their importance, they end up looking the worse for it.

Remember, France is the country that:
- Tested nuclear weapons in the Pacific ocean, long after all other countries agreed to stop testing there.
- Had the president (de Galle) proclaim "Vive le Quebec Libre", thus encouraging Nationalism in Quebec (which is one of the major problems we have here). This, despite Canada played a big role in World War 2.
- Speaking of World War 2, remember, half the country sided with the Germans. Then, when the country was liberated, they made it seem like it was the French Resistance (probably over rated) and army which beat back the Germans. (Hey, I remember seeing a documentary where they said the American army had to stop before entering Paris, because they wanted the French army to be the first ones in
- They pulled out of NATO in the cold war (when we needed to show a strong defence against the Soviet block). Of course, they're back in it now that the real danger has passed (but they're doing their best to ruin it)
- Has an economy crippled by socialist policies, but wants to export that same socialism to the rest of europe
- Remember, France helped establish many of the borders in the world during its colonial period (and its those same borders which are the cause of a lot of fighting)

(Edited for grammar)

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland

Ignore it Flo. There has been a a real nasty undercurrent of xenophobia on this forum recently, and not just from Jedi Knight. Don't take them seriously.
Its not xenophobia.... its just the french we are picking on. (Heck, Scotland and the UK aren't bashed.)

[headscratcher4]

Flo:

We kid, because we love....

Actually, sincere apologies. As I noted at the top of the thread, I was passing along the French at War for "amusement" sake.

I hopefully am not overly xenophobic -- at least no more than the average Frenchman, German, Brit, etc. I do find the humor in these (as I do in charachterizations of American Cowboys and Renegade CIA Agents, and Stero-typical Southern Klan members). And, you have to admit, there is a long history of making fun of the French from an overly pious anglo-phone community (the Brits are masters, the US is merely periodic players in the game).

Anyway, I apologize. I actually do have a very good sense of not only French history but the cost of WWII to the French, and the real sacrifice by many, many brave individuals to fight the Nazis and Facsim. No one who has seen the footage of DeGaul standing amid the firing of snipers in Paris in 1944 can have anything but admiration.

Nor do I think the Fench position in all of this Iraq business is completely wrong or ill-warneted -- I do think it is designed to serve a nationallistic purpose and thus not any more noble or moral than the US position (i.e. in some ways war or lack of war is about "oil" and if the US war is about Oil, than, to me at least, so too is the French peace...). France, Germany and the US always try to do, or try to explain their actions, in moral terms while often taking very short-sighted decisions (it is the nature of the beast).

In the end, I say Vive La France. Indeed, in the end I say that France and the US have more in common than they care to admit to (values-wise), and perhaps that is why the humor is amusing.

Just think for a moment of how a similiar list for the US might look:

1918 -- got in on the winning side of WWI, just in time to claim victory.

Vietnam -- saw that the French had blown-it, but not spectacularly enough for it to really be a major F*ck-up and agreed to take the situation over to ensure major F*ck-up.

Gulf-war -- defeated horrible dictator in quick, desicive war along with allies, but f*cked up the peace by letting him off the hook...

Somalia -- Learning lesson from Vietnam... figured that the time was right for a "f*ck up" in the Horn of Africa...

You, as I know, the list could be long and elaborate....and very funny.

[Michael Redman]

Originally posted by headscratcher4
anyone want to buy some realestate?:( You own? Bastard. Yes I want. Can you find a couple of lawyers some jobs in town as well? :D

[ZeeGerman]

My Respect Headscratcher!
That was one funny post and a sensible apology. I laughed so loud, my office mates turned their heads.
As a German, I'm so used to my country being the target of stupid jokes that I don't get pissed anymore. Most Germans (me included) aren't the patriotic types. With the French, patriotism is a somewhat different issue. It's not the flag waving style like the american but it's still serious and the French are as easily hurt when comes to their country as are the americans. - I'm wildly generalizing here, I know. - So, over the day, I perceived that this thread became more and more tasteless.
Maybe it's time to leave the shin kicking to the politicians, and get back to the real issue... what was it ... wait... i know, little guy, funny mustache...


Anyway, as the Brits say: "Don't mention the war"

Zee

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Mike B.
Well they did fight hard at Verdun in 1916 didn't they?



Kindly remove your facts from my bigotry.

Thanks. ;)

But Seriously.

Charles de Gaulle:

"Vive le Quebec, Vive le Quebec Libre"

and:

"Non"

Can any French person explain to me what purpose these comments had other to deliberately antogonise, humiliate and cause economic and political harm to my people?

:mad:

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london

Charles de Gaulle:

"Vive le Quebec, Vive le Quebec Libre"

Canada, in 1967, was a relatively happy place. There were some nationalists around, but for the most part Quebec a happy member of confederation.

Enter de Gaulle, who made a speech in which he uddered the above words (Long Live Free Quebec). All of a sudden, thousands of Quebecois who would not have cared started thinking of themselves as a separate people. This helped enourage the Quebec Nationalist movement.

Since then, Canada has been fighting against Quebec separatists. (The Province has elected separatist governments many times over the past 3 decades, and obviously they aren't interested in cooperating nicely with the other provinces and federal government.) The prime ministers over the past decades have been more interested in appeasing Quebec (usually to the detriment of the rest of the country). Annoyingly, I would have no problem with Quebec separating (they have been a drag on the economy for a long time); however, far too many Quebecois think they can separate from Canada, yet still remain Canadian citizens (and receive assistance from the rest of Canada). Our government doesn't have the guts to call their bluff.

And just in case someone assumes it was just a one time remark over 30 years ago, France is still at it. During the last referendum, they claimed they would gladly recognize a 'free Quebec', even though the referendum question was unclear on what the voter was deciding. (Most countries were rightly staying neutral; it was mainly France who was trying to encourage separation.)

Some gratitude for you, after Canada helped saved them in World War 2. (Ironically, there was little support for fighting in Europe from the Quebecois. Most political support for the war came from English Canada.)

[Flo]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Ignore it Flo. There has been a a real nasty undercurrent of xenophobia on this forum recently, and not just from Jedi Knight. Don't take them seriously.

It's not the xenophobia as such that is the more grating, it is the patent stupidity and the double standard: so easy to remain rational and civil when picking on woowoos, ready to insert asterisks in the middle of rather mild profanities in order not to shock the kids, but unable to keep a minimum of respect, decency, civility or any kind of rationality when discussing politics and especially other countries ... and this from a supposedly thinking elite ...

[Flo]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


Kindly remove your facts from my bigotry.

Thanks. ;)

But Seriously.

Charles de Gaulle:

"Vive le Quebec, Vive le Quebec Libre"

and:

"Non"

Can any French person explain to me what purpose these comments had other to deliberately antogonise, humiliate and cause economic and political harm to my people?

:mad:

This French person can explain to you that not all French persons approve(d) of them, or find them extremely intelligent. I don't think De Gaulle wanted so much to humiliate or otherwise harm anyone, only that he thought an alliance of all French-speaking countries, provinces, and population would protect the French language from "contamination" from English :rolleyes:

The current policy from the Academie Française, no more intelligent than encouraging dissent in Canada but whose harmful effects only extend to French citizens, consists in

a) trying to ban useful, everyday use, English words and replace them with useless, cumbersome French equivalent,

b)making sure that French students don't get a good command of the language (so they will keep peppering French with inappropriate English words)

c) subsidising French songs and movies nobody wants (or should) listen or watch,

d) whining.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Flo


This French person can explain to you that not all French persons approve(d) of them, or find them extremely intelligent. I don't think De Gaulle wanted so much to humiliate or otherwise harm anyone, only that he thought an alliance of all French-speaking countries, provinces, and population would protect the French language from "contamination" from English :rolleyes:

The current policy from the Academie Française, no more intelligent than encouraging dissent in Canada but whose harmful effects only extend to French citizens, consists in

a) trying to ban useful, everyday use, English words and replace them with useless, cumbersome French equivalent,

b)making sure that French students don't get a good command of the language (so they will keep peppering French with inappropriate English words)

c) subsidising French songs and movies nobody wants (or should) listen or watch,

d) whining.

hi flo, didn't realise we had another nationality participating. i have already had a discussion with headscratcher about france. you will find he is not so bad, and just likes to poke fun at various points of any nationality. he is not biased for or against anyone.

de gaulle seemed to be owed for WWII, even if he outstayed the obligation for a few too many years. vietnam might have been a much different story without him.

as for the language issue, it is very interesting. I have been told that in quebec they speak french from 100 years ago.

as for the issue of new words in french, is it really just going to turn into english, or are they being paranoid and about, say, 10% will be english words, (which is really just latin, german, old english and french mixed up in a big jumble), and that's as far as it will go.

in the long run, all languages are always changing, and i suppose in the end the world will be speaking one language. that would be in about 1000 years or so, so I can't see it being much of an issue now.

[Flo]

Originally posted by a_unique_person

as for the language issue, it is very interesting. I have been told that in quebec they speak french from 100 years ago.

as for the issue of new words in french, is it really just going to turn into english, or are they being paranoid and about, say, 10% will be english words, (which is really just latin, german, old english and french mixed up in a big jumble), and that's as far as it will go.

in the long run, all languages are always changing, and i suppose in the end the world will be speaking one language. that would be in about 1000 years or so, so I can't see it being much of an issue now.


Hi,

You're partly right, the french spoken in Quebec still uses quite a lot of words and expressions that have been out of use in France for 100 +yrs, but the main difference lies in different meaning given to the same words on both sides of the Pond, a bit like Brit-speak and American-speak ;)

I think the issue of new words in French is a mix of paranoïa and bad management. One key example is the word "Walkman", coined by a Japanese (notorious for their misuse of foreign language), and banned by the Academie française in favor of "Baladeur" (litteral translation), both words basically unfit to describe the actual object ... IMO, the best way to protect a language is 1) saying or writing interesting original things with it, 2) teaching it properly, 3) teaching other languages properly.

I don't think there will ever be an unification of all languages: even the Chinese emperors couldn't achieve having the whole country and their vassals to speak the same language, despite having them adopt the same script ...

[Jon_in_london]

Flo, thanks for your explaination. But what about De Gaulles flat and blatantly unreasonable veto to British entry into the EEC (thats where the "non" comes from).

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
Flo, thanks for your explaination. But what about De Gaulles flat and blatantly unreasonable veto to British entry into the EEC (thats where the "non" comes from).

you can't have it both ways, they still aren't sure they even want to be in the EEC.

[Flo]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
Flo, thanks for your explaination. But what about De Gaulles flat and blatantly unreasonable veto to British entry into the EEC (thats where the "non" comes from).

What do you mean, "unreasonable" ? He was just concerned the Brits would have us sterilise our cheese ! ;)


Seriously, I don't remember the exact circonstances, but it had to do with the feeling (already) that GB was some kind of 5th column from the US, and that the US would therefore have an undue influence over the building of Europe through the British.

Some people still laud his visionary talents ... ;) I personally think he was living in the past.

(do you know that when GB adopted the metric system, a radio station announced, on April's fool day, that as a return courtesy, we were going to adopt driving on the left ?)

[Jon_in_london]

Wonder what the origins of "5th Column" are?

[iain]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
Wonder what the origins of "5th Column" are? Fifth Column (http://www.xrefer.com/entry/631508) A secret subversive group that works against a country or organization from the inside, as in The right-to-life movement has established a fifth column among freedom-of-choice activists. This term was invented by General Emilio Mola during the Spanish Civil War in a radio broadcast on October 16, 1936, in which he said that he had una quinta columna (a fifth column) of sympathizers for General Franco among the Republicans holding the city of Madrid, and it would join his four columns of troops when they attacked. The term was popularized by Ernest Hemingway and later extended to any traitorous insiders.

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Flo

This French person can explain to you that not all French persons approve(d) of them, or find them extremely intelligent. I don't think De Gaulle wanted so much to humiliate or otherwise harm anyone, only that he thought an alliance of all French-speaking countries, provinces, and population would protect the French language from "contamination" from English :rolleyes:

How could De Gaulle think that breaking up Canada would not hurt Canadians as a whole?

And why is France still interferring in Canadian politics decades later, even after we've shown that Canada as a whole is very helpful in protecting French in Quebec?

And while not all French people may agree with the actions of De Gaulle and Chirac, you voted for them. He represents you.

[Troll]

Does anyone know the name of the congressman that said something very close to these exact words "I don't understand why the French oppose a war with Iraq. I would think they would want to participate so they could show them how to surrender"? I caught this bit yesterday listening to the radio but forgot the congressman's name.

[Flo]

Originally posted by Segnosaur

How could De Gaulle think that breaking up Canada would not hurt Canadians as a whole?

And why is France still interferring in Canadian politics decades later, even after we've shown that Canada as a whole is very helpful in protecting French in Quebec?

And while not all French people may agree with the actions of De Gaulle and Chirac, you voted for them. He represents you.




I was a little too young to vote for De Gaulle, but I was one of those hoping for his demise in 1969, and I only voted for Chirac (with a metaphorical clothes pin on my nose) because, like the majority of the people who voted for him, I couldn't stand the idea of Le Pen in office. As it is, I can say I'm not too fâchée with the way Chirac is handling the Iraq case. Given the intelligence of the anti-anti-war comments, I can't see how I could trust those making them to come with an intelligent and harmonious solution to the Saddam/Al Qaeda problem ... I think having someone who's forcing them to give logical, verifiable explanations is good for them.

As for Canada protecting French in Quebec, that is not the opinion of most of my Canadian friends ;)

[rikzilla]

Personally I love France...

I've spent several wonderful vacations on the beach at Les Sables D'Olonne. Great food! (Moules a la creme!! yum!)
The people were friendly, the women beautiful, the sun warm, although "la mer a froid!!" The French won the Eurocup 2000 (I think??) in soccer that year and I never saw such a celebration! Big fun! Lots of smiles!

I would hate to think that the current geopolitical issues we find ourselves confronted with would spoil all that goodwill. Hopefully it won't.

Honestly, I don't understand official France. When the US has needed even the slightest support in the last 30 years France has declined. They didn't support NATO...they wouldn't allow US overflight for the strike mission against Libya after Libya bombed the Berlin disco and took out the PanAm flight. Official France seems even more arrogant than America...but an empty arrogance. The arrogance of a king with no country, or an English Lord who has sold his estates and has nothing but a good name left to mask his poverty.

Official France IMHO only exists within Paris. On almost every visit there I dealt with a great deal of snooty and rude Parisians. Only when outside Paris did I find a welcoming and friendly people. That's what I found most puzzling about the country. It's like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. I love France...but hate Paris.

Sorry if we ticked you off Flo. But this whole business about Saddam is not the first time we've faced a France that does not appear to be our ally.

-zilla

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Flo

... and this from a supposedly thinking elite ...

By this you mean the elite in Paris (& Bonn) who as usual prefer obstructionism to action? The idiots in Brussels are also, as usual, irrelevant and meaningless.

:rolleyes:

[ZeeGerman]

Originally posted by hammegk


By this you mean the elite in Paris (& Bonn) who as usual prefer obstructionism to action? The idiots in Brussels are also, as usual, irrelevant and meaningless.

:rolleyes:

It's Berlin now, just in case you didn't notice.

Zee

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by rikzilla
Sorry if we ticked you off Flo. But this whole business about Saddam is not the first time we've faced a France that does not appear to be our ally.

-zilla

Do I hear anything about Canada? They have been upfront from the start about not backing this adventure, but all the vitriol appears directed at France.

[hammegk]

Originally posted by ZeeGerman


It's Berlin now, just in case you didn't notice.

Zee

Thanks; sorry for the error. You are correct that I didn't notice.

Tracking the centers of European political irrelevance is low on my agenda.

[Flo]

Originally posted by rikzilla
Personally I love France...
Honestly, I don't understand official France. When the US has needed even the slightest support in the last 30 years France has declined. They didn't support NATO...they wouldn't allow US overflight for the strike mission against Libya after Libya bombed the Berlin disco and took out the PanAm flight. Official France seems even more arrogant than America...but an empty arrogance. The arrogance of a king with no country, or an English Lord who has sold his estates and has nothing but a good name left to mask his poverty.

So what ? why ignore the voice of an empoverished Lord if he has something of potential value to say ? I'm somewhat amused by the American protestations at acting only for the safeguard of democracy, freedom, etc., then screaming blue murder everytime someone has the audacity to want to exert it: "every voice counts", unless it is in disagrement, or questions US government options, in which case it becomes suddenly irrelevant. Had France agreed from the start, it would have been lauded as a great nation among the powerful, I suppose :rolleyes:


Official France IMHO only exists within Paris. On almost every visit there I dealt with a great deal of snooty and rude Parisians. Only when outside Paris did I find a welcoming and friendly people. That's what I found most puzzling about the country. It's like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. I love France...but hate Paris.

Typical tourist misconception: "IMHO, the XXX country only exists within its capitals. On every visit, I dealt with a great deal of snooty and rude (Tokyoites, NewYorkers, ...). Only when outside the capital did I find welcoming and friendly people ...."
Paris, or Tokyo, or New York, may be a tourist destination to you, it is where the local population works, mostly in something having nothing to do with tourism, hence the total indifference towards visitors (not that I approve of it ... I was born in Paris, hate the place).

Sorry if we ticked you off Flo.

I don't worry about reading criticism of France (I have plenty myself, the latest stupid adventure in Ivory Coast, for example ...) or even a good joke. What ticked me off was the gratuitous insults and the lowbrow rhetoric, by people who should know better than just repeat what politicians and polemicists say ...

[/]But this whole business about Saddam is not the first time we've faced a France that does not appear to be our ally.
[/B]

Depends on your definition of "ally": if it means never questionning the US government's options and just following meekly, then it is true, France is no ally.

[shuize]

Troll:

It may have been the same congressman who said today:How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris? .... I don't know, it's never been tried.
-- Rep. Roy Blunt (Missouri 7th)

[Bjorn]

Andy Rooney made some 'funny' comments on 60 minutes today, mostly about the 'cowards' in France. He told the story about how he was there, in August 1944, watching Charles de Gaulle participating/leading the parade towards the Notre Dame just after the liberation of Paris, when sniper(s) started shooting.

Rooney plainly stated how he hid under a tank, and then somehow managed to conclude how he had 'deserved' some rights ('I was there!'), while the French people had not.

Not in a single word did he mention what everyone with a tiny knowledge of history would emphasize, and what became one of the famous pictures from that periode, like the flag hoisting in Iwo Jima: Charles de Gaulle refused to hide and continued to walk tall during the whole episode.

And Mr. Rooney, hiding under a tank, is mocking him. :(

[shuize]

Bjorn:

what everyone with a tiny knowledge of history would emphasize ... like the flag hoisting in Okinawa

You mean the flag raising on Iwo Jima.


[edited to add sarcastic comment]

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


Do I hear anything about Canada? They have been upfront from the start about not backing this adventure, but all the vitriol appears directed at France.

Well, it isn't like the French asked for it, did they? Wasn't it the French who abandoned NATO and military matters involving NATO in the 1960's? Yep. France just "walked away" from the table of freedom in the 1960's. They were just that anxious to give themselves away to the communists.

If the free world put its national security into the hands of France, it would be the end of civilization.

JK

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by shuize
Bjorn:

You mean the flag raising on Iwo Jima.

[edited to add sarcastic comment] Sorry, I was too irritated to think clearly. You're right. :(

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by a_unique_person

Do I hear anything about Canada? They have been upfront from the start about not backing this adventure, but all the vitriol appears directed at France.
A couple of notes (from a Canadian)
- Canada has been waffling in our support for the U.S. in its 'war on terror' (the government wants to be counted as 'friends' of the U.S. without actually doing anything). I don't think they've made a clear decision either way about attacking Iraq. (They say they don't want to go to war, but haven't totally discounted it.)
- France and Germany have been active in blocking NATO in defending Turkey (Canada has not)
- Canada has helped the U.S. in Afghanistan (of course, we actually had to get the Americans to fly our troops over there, and supply the ammunition). Still, we have been of help in the past
- You missed the 'suck and blow' speech by our former Prime Minister Mulroney, where he complained about how the government wants to be seen as a friend of the U.S., at the same time people in the government are insulting the U.S.

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Flo

I was a little too young to vote for De Gaulle, but I was one of those hoping for his demise in 1969, and I only voted for Chirac (with a metaphorical clothes pin on my nose) because, like the majority of the people who voted for him, I couldn't stand the idea of Le Pen in office. As it is, I can say I'm not too fâchée with the way Chirac is handling the Iraq case. Given the intelligence of the anti-anti-war comments, I can't see how I could trust those making them to come with an intelligent and harmonious solution to the Saddam/Al Qaeda problem ... I think having someone who's forcing them to give logical, verifiable explanations is good for them.

As for Canada protecting French in Quebec, that is not the opinion of most of my Canadian friends ;)
I'm not happy with the current Canadian government either. I think Canadians should be ashamed that they would support such a corrupt an inept group of leaders. However, like it or not, our Prime Minister was elected, and as such makes the desisions that represent the country as a whole.

And even though you may have selected Chirac because you found the other option so much worse, remember, it was the French citizens who ended up in the situation where the only 2 possibile people to vote for were not desirable.

As for protecting the french in Canada, I wonder.... are your friends in Canada Anglophone or Francophone? Many of the media outlets in Quebec tend to support Quebec separation, and as such overlook any support for the French language given by the country as a whole.

[rikzilla]

Q: What do you call 200,000 Frenchmen with their hands up?
A: The Army!

Q. How any French soldiers does it take to change a light bulb? A. Five
one to sit on his butt and watch and do nothing.
the second to turn tail and run.
the third to roll over.
the forth to surrender to the light bulb and snitch out occupied sconces.
and the fifth to pick up a phone and cry to the United States.

Q: What's the difference between a dead skunk and a dead french man In the middle of the road?
A: There's skid marks In front of the skunk.


Q: How many frenchman does it take to defend Paris?
A: Nobody knows, its never been tried before


What color is the American flag? Red, White, and Blue. What color is the British flag? Red, White, and Blue. What color is the French flag? White.


Q: Why don't they have fireworks at Euro Disney?
A: Because every time they shoot them off, the French try to surrender to Mickey.


Courtesy of
English-made French joke website! (http://www.shush-its-secret.demon.co.uk/Jokes.html)

[DanishDynamite]

Good idea, Rick! Nothing like a few jokes to lighten the pro/con war atmosphere. Here's a few I found:

Q: What's the difference between an American and an American bomb?
A: The bomb is smart enough to know where to find Iraq


It is said that Mahatma Ghandi was asked, "What is your opinion of American civilization?"
His reply: "I think it would be an excellent idea."


Noteworthy dates in 20th-Century American history:
1917 - When World War I began.
1918 - When the U.S. won World War I.
1941 - When World War II began.
1945 - When the U.S. won World War II.


Q: What do Americans call a TV set that goes five years without need of repair?
A: An import.


There are four people sharing a compartment on a train - a beautiful young Italian woman, a rather elderly German lady, an American man, and a Canadian man.

They're making polite small talk when the train goes through a tunnel. All you can hear in the darkness is a huge "WHACK!" When they come out the other side, the American is rubbing the side of his face which is all red.

The American thinks "Damn, that Canadian fool must have grabbed that young Italian woman, and she slapped me thinking I'd done it."

The Italian woman thinks "Damn, that stupid American must have tried to feel me up, missed, groped that old German woman instead, and she must have slapped him for it."

The German lady thinks "Damn, that stupid American must have groped that young Italian woman in the darkness, and she must have slapped him for it."

The Canadian man thinks "I hope we go through another tunnel so I can smack that American again!"

[rikzilla]

Sorry DD that there are no Danish jokes that I could find.

Apparently one must be relevant in order to attract the attentions of jokers.

An ode to the French....a serious one (http://www.nypost.com/seven/02102003/commentary/68775.htm)

I know some veterans who would say that if the French are in training, they are training to throw up their arms in surrender.

B. Rice Aston, from Houston, the president-general of the Sons of the American Revolution, was visiting here with fellow members.

As he approached the monument in the cemetery, he said: "Remember what Henry Kissinger said. The French are prickly. If you're at the top of the ladder, they sometimes want to shake it for you to fall off."

You walk another hundred yards near hallowed turf: "George Uttering, Pvt., 12 Inf., 4 Div., New York, June 7, 1944; Ramond Carey, 2 Lt., 319, 82 Airborne, New York, July 4, 1944; Ercal W. Netzer, Pfc., 22 Inf., West Virginia, June 7, 1944."

[Flo]

Originally posted by Segnosaur

I'm not happy with the current Canadian government either. I think Canadians should be ashamed that they would support such a corrupt an inept group of leaders. However, like it or not, our Prime Minister was elected, and as such makes the desisions that represent the country as a whole.

And even though you may have selected Chirac because you found the other option so much worse, remember, it was the French citizens who ended up in the situation where the only 2 possibile people to vote for were not desirable..

I know, and I am proud I saw it coming, which is why I went to vote on the first leg for the "socialist" future-ex-prime minister (as socialist as Blair ...), and then for Chirac. The whole story was a mess and an exercise in stupidity by a populace so egged-up about security issues (both Chirac and Le Pen pretending the socialists were intend on selling the country to the Arabs) that they wanted to "give the left a lesson", not realising into whose hands they were playing ... until, to national shame, there was no other solution than voting for "skeleton-in-the-cupboard" Chirac ...

As for protecting the french in Canada, I wonder.... are your friends in Canada Anglophone or Francophone? Many of the media outlets in Quebec tend to support Quebec separation, and as such overlook any support for the French language given by the country as a whole.

Almost exclusively francophone, and a bunch of whiner, IMO. They don't deserve any support, if only for inflicting Celine Dion to the world :D

[DanishDynamite]

rikzilla:Sorry DD that there are no Danish jokes that I could find.Try a Swedish website.
Apparently one must be relevant in order to attract the attentions of jokers.Oh, I wouldn't say that. You're a living counterexample. :D

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by DanishDynamite
rikzilla:Try a Swedish website.
Oh, I wouldn't say that. You're a living counterexample. :D

I am so hurt!:confused: :(

...but will find revenge via a Swedish website....if I can get past looking for the infamous Swedish Bikini Team that is...;)

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Flo
Almost exclusively francophone, and a bunch of whiner, IMO. They don't deserve any support, if only for inflicting Celine Dion to the world :D
Don't forget Poutine.

[Tricky]

The jokes are quite funny. Just to make sure that we all know they are jokes though, I post this Molly Ivins (http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/columnists/molly_ivins/5222243.htm) column which has a few things many Americans don't consider.

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Tricky
The jokes are quite funny. Just to make sure that we all know they are jokes though, I post this Molly Ivins (http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/columnists/molly_ivins/5222243.htm) column which has a few things many Americans don't consider.

Might want to be careful.... posting a complete article may be against forum guidelines.

I just wanted to point out a couple of things about the article:

- She talks about the 100,000 french people who died in WW2. I'm sure these people did fight bravely. But, what was unsaid was:
* How many people ended up collaberating with the Germans? Was it more or less than the 100,000?
* Of course a lot died defending france. It was their country that got invaded. Compare that to Canada. We had pretty much the same number of casulties (despite a much smaller population), and Canada wasn't under any direct threat. Still, our soldiers fought to liberate europe
- She talks about De Galle being a 'statesman' (specifically about his withdrawl from Algeria). But, look at his attitudes to Canada... Any thing but 'statesman-like'
- She talks about the 'cordial-like' relationship between the U.S. and Germany at the start of the war. But, even though the U.S. was not at war at the time (and they may have even traded with Germany), they did far more for Britian to support the war effort (lending arms, providing escorts for convoys)
- She said that France could really be a 'very old' friend of the U.S. What does she base that on? Support for the American revolution? (Sorry, that was the king, who eventually got beheaded.)

[iain]

There's a pretty clever trick on google at the moment.

Go to www.google.com

Type "French Military Victories" (with the quotes) and click on "I'm Feeling Lucky".

[Drooper]

Originally posted by iain
There's a pretty clever trick on google at the moment.

Go to www.google.com

Type "French Military Victories" (with the quotes) and click on "I'm Feeling Lucky".


very good.

[NullPointerException]

I think we should start bashing Russians as well, since they are only opposing it because they are selling nuclear facilities and parts to middle-eastern countries and attempting to curry favor and power in the oil businesses.

[headscratcher4]

Heard a new one the other day, I toss it into the pot...I think it is from David Letterman:

it runs along these lines:

The last time the French demanded proof, it came in the form of a German parade through the streets of Paris...;)