Medicine Contaminated With AIDS Found In Anbar

[Nero]

Came across this lovely article, I’m assuming it’s rubbish. Would some with more AIDS/HIV knowledge than I care to comment.

http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php?article=108774&list=/index.php&

Iranian-made medicine sent to Iraq’s Anbar province, home of the Islamic State of Iraq, has found to contain the deadly Aids virus in a new twist in elminating Sunnis from the region as more bodies were found, victims of Shiite Death Squads.

The source, who asked to remain anonymous, told Xinhua: “preliminary tests established that some of the medicines are contaminated with the Acquired Immune Deficiency Virus (AIDS) and that others produce impotence and infertility.

Apart from the fact that they seem to have mixed up HIV and AIDS, can HIV survive for any notable length of time away from a host?

[SomeGuy]

Why is this not in CT?

[Nero]

Why is this not in CT?

Because I was asking from a medical perspective if this was likely rather than questioning the purpose of the article. That comes second.

[This Guy]

I'm interested in the insight someone in the medical profession can shed also.

But till then, I'll offer my $.02 worth.

I worked in a dialysis clinic for quite awhile. Been a few years, but as I recall, we were told that the AIDS/HIV virus was very short lived outside the body. Perhaps an hour or so? Verses some others (Hepatitis (forget which flavor) can live for more than a day in a blood clot on the floor). I think the least that would be required, short of some very fancy lab stuff, would be drawing blood from an infected person, and injecting that into vials of medicine. I'm not even sure that would do the job though.

But, again, I'm interested in what someone that knows what they are talking about to give input :)

[Deetee]

This story has all the hallmarks of CT stamped upon it. Certain parties with an axe to grind about something or other claimed that medicines (seemingly vaccines) have something nasty wrong with them in order to stop the people who need them wanting to take them. The infertile/impotence angle works a treat (cf polio in Nigeria); and what could be nastier than HIV to have in a contaminated vaccine?

I would say that although theoretically possible to contaminate vaccines with viable viruses, in practice this would be nearly impossible unless it was being done deliberately at source. And who thought to check for HIV in the samples, anyway? It is not something that is done to check vaccine safety prior to use - the quality controls at manufacture are assumed to be sufficient.

ETA, having seen ThisGuy's comment:
HIV cannot survive for long outside the body. But vaccines are a suitable vehicle for persistence of other viruses, as long as they are "live" and kept at correct temperature. MMR has 3 viruses in it, after all. A killed vaccine has preservatives in it (eg thiomerosal!) which would make the chance of any virus surviving in it for more than a few seconds quite remote. But live vaccines like Polio Sabin can be unintentionally and viably contaminated with other viruses, eg SV40.
It would be nice to know what vaccine they are talking about.

[Nero]

This story has all the hallmarks of CT stamped upon it.

I entirely agree, but would be nice to know the plausibilty of the claim.

[krazyKemist]

Came across this lovely article, I’m assuming it’s rubbish. Would some with more AIDS/HIV knowledge than I care to comment.

http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php?article=108774&list=/index.php&





Apart from the fact that they seem to have mixed up HIV and AIDS, can HIV survive for any notable length of time away from a host?

First, they're not being very precise with the terms. AIDS is not a virus, its a syndrome (a collection of symptoms). The virus is called HIV. For starters, they're not being very serious.

Second, without an appropriate culture medium, the HIV viruse has very little stability. They would have needed to ship it in some sort of culture media containing CD4 cells. Or in blood. Or they have found out some way to make it stable otherwise, which is pretty high-tech. Possible, but very unlikely. Second, the medication in question needs to be injectable. Infection by HIV orally is unheard of. So if somebody had managed to stabilize tthe virus to put it on orally-taken medicine/pill, it would still be very unlikely to cause infection. The terrorists behind this would have to be particularly stupid.

the Kemist

[kellyb]

I'm sure there's some way to keep HIV "alive" through transport and infectious, but finding the right stabilizer would require some serious scientific investigation. Not terribly plausible.

The source, who asked to remain anonymous, told Xinhua: “preliminary tests established that some of the medicines are contaminated with the Acquired Immune Deficiency Virus (AIDS) and that others produce impotence and infertility.”

That just screams "totally unsubstantiated rumor" to me.

[Graham Jackman]

I would have thought that the virus would be inactivated in such conditions and why go to so much trouble? There are much easier and quicker ways of eliminating people you don't like, without infecting with a disease that you might also catch.

[Skeptic Ginger]

More screaming, this is a fake story:while others result in impotenceBut there is a polio epidemic which began when rumors circulated that the vaccine was a plot to make Muslim women sterile. It is still going on.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Re the SV40 and polio vaccine

Immunization Safety Review: SV40 Contamination of Polio Vaccine and Cancer (http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3793/4705/4317.aspx)Some of the polio vaccine administered from 1955-1963 was contaminated with a virus, called simian virus 40 (SV40). The virus came from the monkey kidney cell cultures used to produce the vaccine. Most, but not all, of the contamination was in the inactivated polio vaccine (IPV). Once the contamination was recognized, steps were taken to eliminate it from future vaccines. Researchers have long wondered about the effects of the contaminated vaccine on people who received it. Although SV40 has biological properties consistent with a cancer-causing virus, it has not been conclusively established whether it might have caused cancer in humans. Studies of groups of people who received polio vaccine during 1955-1963 provide evidence of no increased cancer risk.

However, because these epidemiologic studies are sufficiently flawed, the committee concluded in this report that the evidence was inadequate to conclude whether or not the contaminated polio vaccine caused cancer. In light of the biological evidence supporting the theory that SV40-contamination of polio vaccines could contribute to human cancers, the committee recommends continued public health attention in the form of policy analysis, communication, and targeted biological research. There's a lot more information in the link.

It's not relevant to HIV necessarily though because each virus would have its own condition requirements for survival. In addition, you not only need survival, you need the minimal dose. HIV can be recovered in the saliva of infected patients but no one gets infected from exposure to saliva.

[Big Les]

This cobblers reminds me of these (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9707)(original article now gone) claims of a Palestinian "AIDS bomb". Pathetic that such schoolyard boogey-man BS should actually be reported as news.

[kellyb]

It kind of reminds me of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_trial_in_Libya

Except the Lybian thing is "real".

[SteveGrenard]

It kind of reminds me of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_trial_in_Libya

Except the Lybian thing is "real".

The situation in Libya was entirely different and yes, real. Hospitalized children were infected with HIV due to a lack of facilities to properly sterilize bloodied instruments and the absence of disposable hypodermic syringes (also with blood stuck inside them) which were impossible to properly sterilize and re-use. The Palestinian doctor (now an honorary Bulgarian citizen) and Bulgarian nurses blamed for this were scapegoats for Health Ministry higher ups who wouldn't provide the equipment & personnel needed to prevent cross-infection. They didn't even have disposable gloves. These personnel were forced to use dirty equipment, examine patients bare handed and then got blamed for doing so. Although we didn't hear about it, I am sure there were probably other infectious diseases passed by and between patients as a result of the absymal conditions at this hospital. This was both a tragedy and a travesty.

[Nero]

Thank you very much ladies and gentleman for the massively informative replies.

[CFLarsen]

The Palestinian doctor (now an honorary Bulgarian citizen)

Ashraf Ahmad Djum’a al-Hadjudj isn't a doctor, but a medical intern.

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_trial_in_Libya#Ashraf_Ahmad_Djum.E2.80.99a_al-Hadjudj)

[OperatorMalfunction]

I have HIV and have been living with it for over 16 years.

The only "medicines" that HIV can be transmitted in are blood products, such as clotting factors for hemophiliacs. That's how many people were infected in the 80's and 90's before they began routinely testing the blood supply.

You can't take a pill and catch HIV. You can't get it from a topical cream or eye drops, or any other kind of medication. You can't even get it from a mosquito that bit a person with HIV and then immediately bit you.

This is propaganda, and another example of religious agendas being pushed into medical and scientific arenas in order to control via fear.

[HawkeyeMD]

I have HIV and have been living with it for over 16 years.

The only "medicines" that HIV can be transmitted in are blood products, such as clotting factors for hemophiliacs. That's how many people were infected in the 80's and 90's before they began routinely testing the blood supply.

You can't take a pill and catch HIV. You can't get it from a topical cream or eye drops, or any other kind of medication. You can't even get it from a mosquito that bit a person with HIV and then immediately bit you.

This is propaganda, and another example of religious agendas being pushed into medical and scientific arenas in order to control via fear.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Any questions?

[SteveGrenard]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_intern

An intern in the medical field has an M.D. or D.O. degree, but does not have a full license to practice medicine unsupervised in the U.S. In other countries medical education generally ends with a period of practical training similar to internship, but the way the overall program of academic and practical medical training is structured differs in each case, as does the…..


I will go along with the NY Times (rather than one adjective in Wikipedia)and give this man the respect he deserves and not denigrate him. I will therefore refer to him as Doctor:



Doctor Recounts Imprisonment in Libya

By MATTHEW BRUNWASSER

Published: August 2, 2007

SOFIA, Bulgaria, Aug. 1 — In the yard of the Bulgarian presidential residence, on the foothills of Vitosha Mountain, Ashraf al-Hazouz on Tuesday recounted his years of imprisonment and torture in Libya and aired his grievances: the beatings, the electrical charges all over his body, the injection that he was told carried the virus that causes AIDS.

Dr. Hazouz, one of six medical workers arrested in 1999 on charges of infecting hundreds of Libyan children with H.I.V., is becoming the most public face of the prisoners, who were freed last week and pardoned on arrival in Bulgaria, the country of origin for all of them except Dr. Hazouz. Their joy and confusion at their freedom seems to be turning into a hunger for justice after years of captivity that began, he said, with months of torture.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/02/world/europe/02doctor.html?ei=5088&emc=rss&en=ebd641657ede3d56&ex=1343707200&partner=rssnyt

[Skeptic Ginger]

I have HIV and have been living with it for over 16 years.

The only "medicines" that HIV can be transmitted in are blood products, such as clotting factors for hemophiliacs. That's how many people were infected in the 80's and 90's before they began routinely testing the blood supply.

You can't take a pill and catch HIV. You can't get it from a topical cream or eye drops, or any other kind of medication. You can't even get it from a mosquito that bit a person with HIV and then immediately bit you.

This is propaganda, and another example of religious agendas being pushed into medical and scientific arenas in order to control via fear.Unless you include contaminated multidose vials which have been implicated in bloodborne disease transmission.

But as far as the claims in the OP, it's extremely unlikely and from what I saw utter nonsense.

Welcome to JREF. We seem to have had a rash of HIV misinformation threads recently. The input from someone well read on the subject as many infected souls are is a welcome addition to the forum. It's a disease rife with woo sources of information and various conspiracy theories.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Interns are licensed doctors. They are just getting more experience post graduating.

That affair made me so angry. I was really hoping every single foreign medical worker in Libya left the country in protest. Unfortunately I'm sure some of them needed the jobs. The US should have offered to take them all in.