Dangerous Love

Dangerous Love,

UK law at long last is starting to get tough on men who beat their partners, one small step in ending dangerous love.
This new initiative (Golden Hour) now allows the police to gather evidence immediately after domestic assault, but also to continue the prosecution of the abuser even if the complainant changes their terrified mind. (See Panorama, BBC1 at 10.35pm on the 17/02/03, England).

There are in the UK a nationwide network of 42 specialist domestic violence prosecutors, who provide up-to-date information on current legislations and providing liaisons with voluntary agencies and the police. In some courts they now specialize in hearing domestic violence cases. In spring this year a white paper Justice for all will be published and it is hoped this will lead to a new domestic violence bill being introduced this year.

Finally the UK government is listening to the women’s refuge and woman’s aid agencies and heeding some of their advice in dealing with domestic violence and it’s aftermath.
At last a clear message is being sent that if women want to end the cycle of abuse finally the police and justice system is providing help.


What makes men turn from lover to abuser?

Their need for power, he feels powerless at work etc, so he takes it out on the woman at home.’ He calmly handed me the carving knife he just spent an hour sharpening, and told me slash my wrists or else he would do it for me’

Women are the weaker sexes, ‘It felt good slapping her around the way she moaned when I kicked her in the stomach, not once did she fight back, she’s a good wife’

For better and worse, Honor and obey, she’s your property now ’When she signed the register that day, she became my property to do with as I see fit’

Fear of betrayal, gives them the right to bully and erode a woman self esteem so making it easier to control her like a domestic pet.
’ So I used her as an ashtray she was fed and watered, I let her eat my scraps from the dog bowl’

Fact: -
On average a woman will be assaulted by her partner or ex-partner at least 36 times before reporting it to the police.

As you read this almost 7000 women and children are sheltering from violence in refuges and safe houses in the UK.

Domestic violence accounts for almost 25% of all violent crimes committed.

Every year, an average of 92 women are killed by their current partner or ex=partner in England and Wales, That equates to 1 woman’s death every 3 days.

Pride and fear costs many battered wives their lives.

Your external scars heal quicker than the internal ones.

It is still a taboo subject, those who admit to being a victim are ridiculed by those who deny this thing happens causing many victims of violence to bottle it all and ending up reliving the cycle over and over again.

Dangerous love can become addictive; many victims seek or push another person to get the attention.

The victims carry the pain with them for along time.

It also happens to men, though very little is reported on it.

Some men continue to be violent despite councelling




http://www.womankind.org.uk

So you go through the violence, you go through the trial, you begin to rebuild your life back finally looking forward, but no now you face another form of abuse, the label ‘Damaged Goods’.

*Sara *talking to her neighbors who had been friendly and chatty right up to the moment she told them she was a victim of domestic violence. Her nice friendly neighbors shut the door in her face and never spoke to her again. Later she noticed twitching curtains and people who she always had a smile and quick chat for her suddenly now crossed the street to avoid her.
Then the gossiping began first in hushed whispers that silenced when she walked past, the stares that turned to hostile glares, then overly loud partial conversations Sara heard, ‘Damaged goods’ ’ she asked for it.’ ‘ Women like her lower the tone of the neighborhood’.
Then warm friendly letters arrived ‘We don’t want damaged people here leave’.
When the bricks came through the windows one summers night, Sara now a virtual recluse, ran a bath and got in it.
A knight in shining armour who was driving just as another brick was thrown through her graffiti daubed door. He found Sara and called the ambulance and gave her first aid to stop the blood until the ambulance came. He was shocked and appalled when later securing the property at what was in the house sent from these warm and friendly neighbors.

Sara recovered from her suicide; Sara did not recover her damaged goods label.
*name changed to protect identity*

So why is there a need to label?

Why is dangerous love/domestic violence such a taboo subject?

Why is there any prejudice, aimed at the victims?

Would you admit to being a victim?

How would you feel being labeled?

Why is it not much reported on the men who suffer it from their partners?


Views.

[Jedi Knight]

My only question is that since domestic violence is not a gender specific crime, what is the UK doing for the thousand, if not millions of men who suffer from domestic violence attacks by their wicked partners?

JK

[Tmy]

Did you need to repost the original post? All it did was take up space. You were the first reply, there was no need for that.

In the US there isnt as much as a "damaged goods" stigma. Domestic violence has been a hot topic over the last few years. Violence groups have done a good job in educating the public on the whole issue. Lawmakers and police have also taken notice.

There are many anti domestic vilolence laws.

And they are gender netural JK.

[Stainless_Steel_Rat]

People are **********.

Jk,
The bill should and I hope it does, cover both men as well as women victims. but you are quite right as I said little is reported on males being subjected to domestic violence.

I have been looking, but so far have only found 10 cases on males reporting it to 100+ more of women cases.


I would say males fall into the pride category and do not report it for fear of ridicule which is saddening.

Any who suffer I would urge that they should report it, nobody has a right to hit anybody, because they had a bad day at the office. home, etc.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Tmy
Did you need to repost the original post? All it did was take up space. You were the first reply, there was no need for that.

In the US there isnt as much as a "damaged goods" stigma. Domestic violence has been a hot topic over the last few years. Violence groups have done a good job in educating the public on the whole issue. Lawmakers and police have also taken notice.

There are many anti domestic vilolence laws.

And they are gender netural JK.

There whiner, happy now?

JK

[Tmy]

Lets be realistic. Most men tend to be bigger and stronger than their wives/girlfriends. So you figure more women would be victims in violence situations.

I always wonder what happens in same sex realtionships. Is physical fighting common. Being same gender there isnt as much of a taboo with violence.

(thanx for teh edit JK. Now isnt the thread pretty now?!?!)

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Tmy
Lets be realistic. Most men tend to be bigger and stronger than their wives/girlfriends. So you figure more women would be victims in violence situations.

I always wonder what happens in same sex realtionships. Is physical fighting common. Being same gender there isnt as much of a taboo with violence.

(thanx for teh edit JK. Now isnt the thread pretty now?!?!)

Physical size has nothing to do with domestic violence. Men suffer from the terror of domestic violence at the same rate as women suffer from it. Domestic violence can be emotional and small wicked evil women can use weapons to hit men with and they do so regularly.

One chick that I saw on TV today killed her husband by driving over him with her car 6 times. Did her size matter? :eek:

JK

Originally posted by Tmy
Lets be realistic. Most men tend to be bigger and stronger than their wives/girlfriends. So you figure more women would be victims in violence situations.

I always wonder what happens in same sex relationships. Is physical fighting common. Being same gender there isn't as much of a taboo with violence.

I have seen more reports on same sex relationships( that is both sexes) than male reporting women.

Why would it be less of a taboo, dangerous love is one heck of a taboo.

I note you say the labeling doesn't occur much in the US, but it still does which is a shame.

[Mr. Skinny]

Pie,

It looks like you're getting better response to this thread over in Politics & Current Events.

I know you're fairly new to the forum, but crossposting is considered bad form. You might want to see if Hal can do anything to merge the two threads.

[Pyrrho]

I think education and assertiveness training would help immensely. The abusive partner has to sleep sometime -- if more abused partners cracked some skulls in return, perhaps the abusers might learn something. There are some lessons only a good cast-iron skillet can convey.

Until you said tht Mr.Skinny I hadn't seen there was 2?
I my browser kept crasing so I blame that for cloning it.


Ohhhhhhhhh Hal, can I be merged with myself over on the Politics & Current Events board? Please:D

Damn blast and handcarts, edited because of duplicate gemlin postings.

Originally posted by Mr. Skinny
Pie,

It looks like you're getting better response to this thread over in Politics & Current Events.

I know you're fairly new to the forum, but crossposting is considered bad form. You might want to see if Hal can do anything to merge the two threads.

Hi Pie:

Don't worry about Hal, he is busy with me in others threads.

LatinAmerica has a "bad" reputation of "machism" (the macho man). Maybe is part of all the myths that are around the world.
I saw the same abuse from part of some women in many countries.

That is not LOVE, well, according to my point of view. Those are just criminal acts made by people that are not sure of themselves.

Love is sharing something with the couple, without losing our own identity and without a competition in separate lifes.

Women , for me , are just our natural oposite, and when are well matched (?) just transport us to the paradise.

Be happy.

Thanks,
S&S

[hal bidlack]

At Pie's request, I have merged the two threads, and moved them to the Politics and Current Events area.

As a result, there may be a bit of confusion from post to post as the threads got smushed together.

Thank you Hal even if you did give me grey hair by jumping up unexpectedly. :D

Originally posted by Stainless_Steel_Rat
People are **********. Not everyone is that is not to make a genaralised comment implying it.

There are good people out there as well, but you are right there is some right a*****es out there too.

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Physical size has nothing to do with domestic violence. Men suffer from the terror of domestic violence at the same rate as women suffer from it. Domestic violence can be emotional and small wicked evil women can use weapons to hit men with and they do so regularly.

One chick that I saw on TV today killed her husband by driving over him with her car 6 times. Did her size matter? :eek:

JK
I agree with JK on this, size does not matter not all abuse is violent, a few choice words can be just as painful as a punch or a kick.
Told enough times your stupid, you will eventually believe it. Having your self esteem consistently ripped apart is equal to being punched. One you see the bruises the other is hidden.

Let alone then suffer the label 'mentally ill'. What difference does that make, none what so ever.

Originally posted by pyrrho2000
I think education and assertiveness training would help immensely. The abusive partner has to sleep sometime -- if more abused partners cracked some skulls in return, perhaps the abusers might learn something. There are some lessons only a good cast-iron skillet can convey.

All the education in the world won't help if you have your self esteem ripped apart night after night, you know it is wrong but pyrrho200 you under estimate the power an abuser has over it's victim.

You say assertiveness training, with I assume a view to saying no stop it I won't accept this behavior, right?

Did you know some men/women find that a perverse pleasure? That being makes the abuser more riled up and makes the victim more of an exciting proposition to control more and punish them more.


Pyrrho2000 I do hope that was meant as a form of joke and a bad joke at that.:eek:

Solving violence with violence is that really going to help? What happens if the victim is caught attempting such when they crack and try to knock them bells out of their abuser? Say the victim( I really hate that label) does as you say, and the abuser is killed, what happens next. The law happens and you find yourself locked up on a murder/manslaughter charge, just because he/she whacked sh**e out of them doesn't not give the non abuser the right to whack them back or kill them.

When a non abused person 'cracks' hell quite literally breaks out there is no restraint, nothing but explosive rage.

Originally posted by S&S


Hi Pie:

Don't worry about Hal, he is busy with me in others threads.

Latin-America has a "bad" reputation of "machismo" (the macho man). Maybe is part of all the myths that are around the world.
I saw the same abuse from part of some women in many countries.

That is not LOVE, well, according to my point of view. Those are just criminal acts made by people that are not sure of themselves.

Love is sharing something with the couple, without losing our own identity and without a competition in separate lives.

Women , for me , are just our natural opposite, and when are well matched (?) just transport us to the paradise.

Be happy.

Thanks,
S&S
Hi ya S&S
As for you keeping Hal in threads, (threads also mean sewing cotton), really S&S give the man a fig leaf to spare his blushes.:D

I wouldn't say just Latin america has as bad macho image, as some countries have with their treatment of women.

No you are quite right it is not love it is control, and right again they are indeed punishing others for their own insecurities.

In a couple you don't lose your own identity, a healthy relationship is being open, honest with each other and having the compassion and understanding to allow each to be their own person.:D

Well matched. suited, in harmony all mean the same thing:D

Originally posted by Pie

Hi ya S&S
As for you keeping Hal in threads, (threads also mean sewing cotton), really S&S give the man a fig leaf to spare his blushes.:D

I wouldn't say just Latin america has as bad macho image, as some countries have with their treatment of women.

No you are quite right it is not love it is control, and right again they are indeed punishing others for their own insecurities.

In a couple you don't lose your own identity, a healthy relationship is being open, honest with each other and having the compassion and understanding to allow each to be their own person.:D

Well matched. suited, in harmony all mean the same thing:D

Hi Pie:

At least in our few replies we are well matched, suited and in harmony.
Now let's enjoy the paradise.

Thanks,
S&S

P.S.
I forgot to tell you I did't vote in your poll, I just gave you my opinion.
Enjoy life.

[Nova Land]

Originally posted by pyrrho2000
I think education and assertiveness training would help immensely.This is a good idea, but there is a problem. Many abusers want their victim to have low self-esteem. Keeping the person dependent on them is part of the abuse. If a person who is being abused were to indicate an interest in going to assertiveness training classes, this might actually trigger physical abuse.

So the education and assertiveness training would need to be done before a person gets into an abusive relationship. That would seem to call for a program that reaches a very broad audience at a young age, such as early teens.

In the US there is considerable opposition to such programs being done in public schools (especially, as I understand it, from conservatives and from anti-feminists).

Would these programs be done in public schools, or through some other agency? I can't think of any private group that could reach and educate more than a small fraction of young people.
The abusive partner has to sleep sometime -- if more abused partners cracked some skulls in return, perhaps the abusers might learn something. There are some lessons only a good cast-iron skillet can convey. I don't think this is a good idea.

(1) Many victims of abuse feel emotionally tied to the abuser. They don't want to cripple or kill the abuser, they want the abuser's behavior to change. Someone willing to hit the abuser hard enough to prevent immediate retaliation is probably already out-of-love and ready to get away -- and, if there are laws to protect such people once they escape, they might be better simply escaping rather escaping with an assault charge pending.

So that leaves the victims who aren't ready to leave and don't want to cripple (or kill) their abuser. But someone not willing to hit that hard is probably moving into extreme danger.

Hitting someone over the head with a skillet is unlikely to produce a change for the better. It is more likely to produce a change for the worse. Most abusers, I suspect, would react to being hit by hitting back harder as soon as they are able. An attempt with a skillet might be what triggers off a fatal fury.

(2) Even hitting hard enough to permanently cripple the abuser might not have the desired effect of making the abuser more loving to the abusee. For many people, being badly injured produces feelings other than love.

(3) If the victim makes an attempt to clobber the abuser and fails, that's almost certain to trigger fury and a serious beating. That's pretty scary thing to think about, and I imagine the victim would be pretty nervous while waiting for the chance to strike. If the abuser spots the unusual nervousness, that may tip the abuser off that something isn't right, triggering the abuse even before the attempt. So just contemplating such an action could be dangerous, even fatal.

(4) People who are victims of physical abuse are, as I understand it, being psychologically abused as well. The psychological scars may be as serious as the physical ones. Is learning to hit other people over the head with a skillet the best way to heal those scars and learn how to be part of a healthy relationship?

Originally posted by S&S


Hi Pie:

At least in our few replies we are well matched, suited and in harmony.
Now let's enjoy the paradise.

Thanks,
S&S

P.S.
I forgot to tell you I did't vote in your poll, I just gave you my opinion.
Enjoy life.

Are you flirting with me S&S?

P.s That's ok.

Originally posted by Nova Land
removed as I only have one line to add.

Novaland excellently put. Far better than I did. :D

[Tmy]

Theres different levels of "abuse". Destroying somes esteem by calling them names is abusive but thats not illegal. We do have freedom of speech and just being a jerk is not against the law.

Now when you get physical or threaten to get phyiscal, thats a different story. Thats when the law can step in.

[Skeptical Greg]

Why do we need to have different laws for the same crime, or corny PC labels like " Dangerous Love "..

When is assault not assault?

[Tmy]

Not all assaults are equal. Theres a difference if I punched my twin brother vs If I punched my grandmother. Both are against the law, but they would be treated differently by he courts.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Tmy
Not all assaults are equal. Theres a difference if I punched my twin brother vs If I punched my grandmother. Both are against the law, but they would be treated differently by he courts.

I think that was my point.... Thanks for adding to it..

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Nova Land
This is a good idea, but there is a problem. Many abusers want their victim to have low self-esteem. Keeping the person dependent on them is part of the abuse. If a person who is being abused were to indicate an interest in going to assertiveness training classes, this might actually trigger physical abuse.

Ohh, this problem is so complex.

There are some points that determine this relationship:

1) Both men and women in a violent relationship come from dysfunctional families.

2) Victims of domestic violence received physical abuse from mommy and daddy in their early years.

3) Both men and women in this relationship need each other to close the circle.

So, my questions are:

Why most of the time we believe that women are responsible to put an end to this situation?

Why do we always focus our efforts to help, train, educate women to end this relationship when in fact we should focus our efforts to educate those violent miserable cowards ??

Why?

Oh, yes I forgot we live in a patriarcal society, where even victims are responsible for being victims :rolleyes:


Q-S

[subgenius]

Once: a victim.
Twice: a volunteer.
---Gavin DeBecker "The Gift of Fear: Survival Signals That Protect Us From Violence"
Doesn't matter what they do to the perpetrator if you're dead.
Take charge of your life.

Originally posted by Q-Source


Ohh, this problem is so complex.

There are some points that determine this relationship:

1) Both men and women in a violent relationship come from dysfunctional families.

2) Victims of domestic violence received physical abuse from mommy and daddy in their early years.

3) Both men and women in this relationship need each other to close the circle.

So, my questions are:

Why most of the time we believe that women are responsible to put an end to this situation?

Why do we always focus our efforts to help, train, educate women to end this relationship when in fact we should focus our efforts to educate those violent miserable cowards ??

Why?

Oh, yes I forgot we live in a patriarchal society, where even victims are responsible for being victims :rolleyes:


Q-S
1) not in all cases,
2) not in all cases.
3) not in all but in some the violence becomes addictive as the abused only recognizes this how love is.

Why 1) Lack of education and resources to show otherwise.
why 2) When you educate an abused person they do learn from it, not all abusers do, and in some cases it excites them they learn how to control more and hit without leaving bruises.

The latter comment you hit the nail on the head the label 'damaged goods' includes in that. Lack of compassion these days, and fear I suppose you could call it. Some people believe you catch it rom the 'damaged goods' you may laugh at this, but it is sadly true. Also some people like their heads in the sand and can only accept perfect things, victims are not. These people also have the same reaction to the mentally ill in all forms. Tell me who is the sadder, the victim who didn't ask for it or the head in the sand type?

Originally posted by subgenius
Once: a victim.
Twice: a volunteer.
---Gavin DeBecker "The Gift of Fear: Survival Signals That Protect Us From Violence"
Doesn't matter what they do to the perpetrator if you're dead.
Take charge of your life.

Do you realize how patronizing that statement can be taken subgenius?

Put yourself in the place of a victim who has nowhere or no-one to turn to, whose self esteem is non existent and then gets a beating, does that once is a victim twice is a volunteer apply now.
No it doesn't. After if you get out yes it makes sense.

Originally posted by Diogenes
Why do we need to have different laws for the same crime, or corny PC labels like " Dangerous Love "..

When is assault not assault?

Dangerous love is not new Pc, it's always been known as either.

That is like asking when is rape not rape?

Originally posted by Tmy
Theres different levels of "abuse". Destroying someones esteem by calling them names is abusive but thats not illegal. We do have freedom of speech and just being a jerk is not against the law.

Now when you get physical or threaten to get physical, thats a different story. Thats when the law can step in.

Tmy I could kiss you, adding I won't.

That's a big hit on the abuse nail. Freedom of speech does not/should not(current laws unknown on its standing) allow ridicule, humiliation or bullying virtually or in reality, it is abusive and should not be tolerated, the odd dispute is one thing but to be subjected to a hate campaign, or a 'sent to Coventry'(means being ignored because one persons said so and made others join in) is wrong. It makes me sick to my stomach seeing it happen and then seeing it allowed to happen and sanctioned.

How can that be freedom of speech destroying somebodies self esteem?

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Pie


Do you realize how patronizing that statement can be taken subgenius?

Put yourself in the place of a victim who has nowhere or no-one to turn to, whose self esteem is non existent and then gets a beating, does that once is a victim twice is a volunteer apply now.
No it doesn't. After if you get out yes it makes sense.
Its not patronizing. Its empowering. The book is great practical advice for avoiding being killed.
Getting out is what its all about. To say that you have no where to go or no one to turn to guarantees victimhood.
The book is recommended reading, and addresses your concerns better than I can.

Originally posted by subgenius

Its not patronizing. Its empowering. The book is great practical advice for avoiding being killed.
Getting out is what its all about. To say that you have no where to go or no one to turn to guarantees victim.
The book is recommended reading, and addresses your concerns better than I can.
I will make an note to find it and read it.

I didn't say that guarantees a person will be victimized at all.

[JAR]

I despise wife-beaters. I chose "rougher penalties" as my voting option. I don't hit men and I don't hit women. Wife-beaters are sadistic human beings who don't know what love for a woman is. A wife-beater will claim that he loves his wife, but if that is the case, why is he always bringing her closer to death. They give a bad name for men. Everytime a man beats up his wife, the feminists say,"See, I told you men were no good." Wife-beaters make a woman's action of choosing a boyfriend be like stepping onto a minefield.

Originally posted by Pie


Are you flirting with me S&S?

P.s That's ok.

Hi Pie:

Flirting? well, I already have an "affair" in this forum.

You know there is a thin line between hate and love.
I guess they love me .

But I always told them that I am straight. Bidlack and his cult knows that too.

So Pie. is really a pleasure flirting with you. Is something hispanics or latins can not handle. Is in our blood and nature, and I am not the exception.

Is that dangerous? Maybe
Is that love? .....why not?

Enjoy your life and welcome to the paradise.

Carlos.

Thanks,
S&S

P.S.
Rubbish?
I am a little.

Originally posted by JAR
I despise wife-beaters. I chose "rougher penalties" as my voting option. I don't hit men and I don't hit women. Wife-beaters are sadistic human beings who don't know what love for a woman is. A wife-beater will claim that he loves his wife, but if that is the case, why is he always bringing her closer to death. They give a bad name for men. Every-time a man beats up his wife, the feminists say,"See, I told you men were no good." Wife-beaters make a woman's action of choosing a boyfriend be like stepping onto a minefield.

The woman/man beaters would dispute that they'd o love their other halves, their love is attached to their fists feet and foul mouth.

Yes the feminists don't help matters much sprouting that, they do some damage sprouting those type of things, and never do they or not that I have known they have, say anything if it's a woman beating on a man, thats is simply hushed over.

The minefield you hit the nail on the head, yes it is the abused can identify with that readily.


It's so easy to stand An the sidelines telling people in this situation oh just say no leave, when your in the middle of it it's entirely different and not easy at all.


Example:-
Battered woman with children, if she leaves him he has said repeatably he will kill the kids and then her family (if allowed to have them around still) and then her. To prove a point he beats her to within an inch of her life daily. He never harms the kids if anything is a good father, and to outsiders a perfect husband front is portrayed. The woman is terrified he has her trapped, no friends, no family, no money, no options no self esteem,just a shattered battered frightened empty shell. The sidelines sayings won't work here.

[Alaric]

I find myself stunned and scared that I agree with Jedi Knight. The rate of males being abused in relationships is far higher then you would expect. After dealing with this in my own life<as one of those huge guys wondering why little little people try to smack me around> and going through university at the same time<you know..."Womens groups ...victim councilling everywhere> I started looking around. For years people would simply dismiss those one or two guys in their lives with the "screwed up wives" and go back to thinking about all those EEEVIL men in the world-never once seeing the pattern.
Start looking online and you will find some interesting statistics....pick up "Everything You Know Is Wrong" and read their section on the situation. Stuff WAS suppressed by womens groups to ensure women got adequate funding- I guess if only one of the two groups could get funding....females were the better choice(even to me).
What I found odd was that statistically, lesbian relationships turned out to be the most violent with gay relationships coming out the LEAST violent. Also, there were different reasons for the violence among the sexes. Males being about control, territory, drug or alchahol abuse while female violence stemmed from "females cant be violent silly"...ie-complete ignorance of the fact. This last bit of info actually came from a 20/20 program that aired recently<WAHOO> which discussed the topic in public FINALLY.


As for punishing violent men and women...lets go back to the old barbarian ways. If you beat your wife-you are attacking her father, her brothers, her psyhcopathic cousin Eddie "da butcha" Williams or whatever. If you smack around your hubby, you face his battleship of a mother, his sister and cousins. <shrugs> Some things need to be handled by the family-not a court of law. The courts always seem to come out WAY to far on the side of the abuser or the victim. There seems no appropriate medium. Principals need to be taught by the family and not society.

Another thing, marital counsilling should NOT involve the victim being told to "break up". How about some actualy marital counselling? Some programs have been shown to work for both sexes-im not applying this to the really violent ones<remember Eddie>

In advance, I appologize for my awful spelling.



Edited for Valentines Day- I am so stupid. This really isnt the sort of thing I should be talking about today is it? Um...everyone can now go back to being romanced by both chocolate and their mates. ahem.

[Drooper]

Originally posted by Pie
Jk,
The bill should and I hope it does, cover both men as well as women victims. but you are quite right as I said little is reported on males being subjected to domestic violence.

I have been looking, but so far have only found 10 cases on males reporting it to 100+ more of women cases.


I would say males fall into the pride category and do not report it for fear of ridicule which is saddening.

Any who suffer I would urge that they should report it, nobody has a right to hit anybody, because they had a bad day at the office. home, etc.

This is an interesting article, on research conducted in Ireland.

The interesting point to note that from the point of view of people pepetrating the act violence, men and women are equally at fault. Women tend to present with effects, for obvious reasons.

Studies on domestic violence by gender (http://fact.on.ca/news/news0202/ir020208.htm)

These studies , with one exception, show that men are at least as likely as women to be victims of domestic violence in the past year. These studies also tend to show that about half of all domestic violence is mutual, with the remainder divided almost equally between male perpetration only and female perpetration only. That is true for both minor and severe physical violence.

However, where sexual violence or feeling in physical danger is measured, women are much more likely to be its victims. These studies also suggest a trend over time towards gender equality in domestic violence.

Your original question was a policy prescriptive one. I would suggest that what is needed is a much more frank and open recognition that this is a problem for society. This is not a "women's issue".

In my opinion the greatest amount of suffering is inflicted on children who tend to get caught in the middle either physically or emotionally/psychologically.

I agree it's not just a womans issue, and yes more should be said about it all, and make it well known it goes on and to state it's not acceptable behavior.

[Ove]

YOU HAVE GOT TO START EARLY!!!!!!!!!!, It is ALL in the upbringing. You should allways teach your children that physical abuse is bad. I have seen several times that when it first has come to marriage and children it is practically hopeless to do something about it.

I have an example about a woman who have had 3 men who all beat her up. When she presented the latest example we all said "Oh no, not again". I mean you recognized the type instantly and yes quite right, 6 months later the whole thing started over again.

I will dare to claim that some women are attracted to the "wrong" kind of men. We had this subject in another thread and i really think the only way you can solve the problem is to educate your children very well. Teach them NEVER to put up with violence. Teach them to walk out the moment their partner raises the fist for the first time or rather teach them to stay away form that kind of persons. Unfortunately most girls are more attracted to the quarterback than the engineering student.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Ove
I will dare to claim that some women are attracted to the "wrong" kind of men. We had this subject in another thread and i really think the only way you can solve the problem is to educate your children very well. Teach them NEVER to put up with violence. Teach them to walk out the moment their partner raises the fist for the first time or rather teach them to stay away form that kind of persons. Unfortunately most girls are more attracted to the quarterback than the engineering student.:rolleyes:

You have something there Ove.

Some women the lure of a bad man is a high sexual attraction. It becomes an addiction to some women, the *I can change him* brigade, knowing full well they have a high probability of failing.

A man with a bad, rough and ready tease them and leave them image excludes a sexual prowess that some women find irresistible. Like you point out a quarterback who is seen as displaying vigor, stamina, strength and exerts a pure male image, pulls more women than the seemingly quiet invisible engineering student, a case of Brawn versus Brains wars. It comes down to the need for a woman to have a good protector for her offspring, a strong self assured male is the turn on.

Also not forgetting a *wicked woman* image is just as a powerful turn on to men as well. Mention whips http://dandaninc.50megs.com/smilies/crackwhip.gif and a leather clad woman who exudes pure and total prediatory sexual tones, and what happens to most males..... melt down. http://jfh.netfirms.com/SMILIES/04/smilie_closed.gif

Mistresshttp://dandaninc.50megs.com/smilies/crackwhip.gif Pie:D lol

[Ove]

Also not forgetting a *wicked woman* image is just as a powerful turn on to men as well. Mention whips and a leather clad woman who exudes pure and total prediatory sexual tones, and what happens to most males..... melt

Not me laddie, i've discovered that it often is the most anonymous women that can give you the greatest experiences, not that i've tried that many. ;)

Originally posted by Ove


Not me laddie, i've discovered that it often is the most anonymous women that can give you the greatest experiences, not that i've tried that many. ;)

You're not calling me a Laddie by chance Ove are you?:eek:mad:

Jedi picked up that men are victims of domestic violence as well as women, but nobody has mentioned the fact, that there are just as many domestic violence attacks against parents by their own children.

Again another side to domestic violence that is not talked about openly.:eeK:

It seemed like every time I was the Officer Of the Deck (OOD) when I was stationed at Naval Air Station, Meridian, Mississippi, we would get a call about a "domestic dispute."

I've seen all kinds. And they were all very scary situations to deal with.

One thing you could always count on. Every. Single. Time. The abused spouse would cry and beg us not to arrest the person who had just beaten/stabbed them. It didn't matter if it was a husband beating a wife, or vice versa.

You couldn't turn your back on the abused spouse, or you were likely to be attacked while trying to arrest the bad one.

It began to frustrate me after a while. There is definitely as much sickness in the abused spouse as there is in the abuser.

And every single time I would actually have to persuade/cajole/harangue the abused spouse into filing a complaint.

One woman had a swelling the size of a grapefruit on her face, and still wouldn't file a complaint. She had minutes before been pinned on the floor as her husband knelt on her shoulders and pummeled her face. And she did not want to file a complaint. I gave up trying to convince her, but a female neighbor managed to.

One night, we get a call that a man who was in the restricted barracks had been stabbed when the "prisoners" were being marched to the chow hall. As I'm interviewing the two Master-At-Arms (each well over 6 feet tall) who were guarding them, they said the wife of one of the men jumped out of the bushed and stabbed her husband in the arm and then ran away.

Flabbergasted, I asked them why the hell they didn't stop her, and how the hell she could get away. They said, "She had a knife. We could have been stabbed." I told them that is what the hell they were being paid for.

So now we had to hunt her down. To keep it short, I ended up going through a window into a darkened barracks suite, expecting a maniacal Amazonian witch to come slice my throat any second as I wriggled through the window. Once inside, I unlocked the door and let the Base Police in.

We eventually found her being sheltered by neighbors. As the Base Police went in to arrest her and brought her out, I was shocked to see a woman barely five feet tall and weighing maybe 100 pounds!

But by far the scariest domestic call was a man who had beaten his wife and was holed up in his house with the kids and a gun. The wife had managed to escape.

We could see through a window that he was sitting on the couch with the gun in his hand and a kid on each side of him.

Fortunately, one of the Base Police knew him and walked up to the door and knocked and announced himself. He was able to talk the guy into surrendering.

I never once, in the three years I dealt with all this crap, heard of one of the spouses leaving their abuser. We often visited the same houses for the same **** over and over.

LukeT there lies the problem. Like you say over and over again you go to a known domestic abusers house only to either have the abused beg not to have the abuser taken away, or if they do then later beg not to prosecute.

It's fear and mind control on behalf of the abuser. The victim has little self confidence and when issued standard threats of " I find you if you leave and take the kids, kill you and the kids etc" " your stupid and clumsy that's what everybody believe and not you" 2 you're unfit mother father I will take the kids and you'll never see then again if you leave"
They withdraw further away out of fear that the circumstances that they are in will get worse.

Most abusers are loving when they want to be, and will woo the abused again, if they return and drop charges then the violence escalates further. Control and fear put on the victim is harder to understand from an outsiders point of view.


I agree it does make you angry seeing some return or go to the same houses after a call out, but the victim is scared not sick at all.

[Nova Land]

Here is an item that may be of interest to others here. If this does move you to take action, please do so immediately; March 1 will be too late.
from http://www.stopfamilyviolence.org

TIME IS RUNNING OUT for Rodi Alvarado Peña, and over 100 other women refugees who seek our nation's protection from gender-based abuses each year.

Ms. Alvarado fled Guatemala and applied for asylum in the United States in 1995, after suffering ten years of horrific domestic abuse. Her husband raped her repeatedly, attempted to abort their second child by kicking her in the spine, dislocated her jaw, tried to cut her hands off with a machete, kicked her in the genitals, and broke windows with her head. Ms. Alvarado sought assistance from the Guatemalan police and the courts but was refused official protection.

A U.S. Immigration Judge granted Ms. Alvarado asylum in 1996, finding that the abuse that she suffered, together with the government's unwillingness or inability to protect her, constituted persecution. But the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) appealed that decision, and in 1999, the Board of Immigration Appeals (BIA) reversed the grant of asylum. In 2001, Attorney General Janet Reno vacated the BIA's decision, issued proposed regulations that recognized gender-related persecution claims, and directed the BIA to re-decide Ms. Alvarado's case again after the proposed regulations became final.

Those regulations never became final, however. Now, on the eve of Homeland Security Department reorganization (March 1, 2003) when the Department of Justice will lose its authority over INS matters, Attorney General John Ashcroft appears poised to issue regulations that would restrict the scope of gender-related persecution claims and would reinstate the BIA decision in the Alvarado case, denying asylum to Ms. Alvarado. If he does, his actions will have devastating consequences for Ms. Alvarado, who will be deported back to her abuser, and to hundreds of other women refugees who have experienced such horrific abuses as gang rapes, forced prostitution, and honor killings (murder by men who believe their wife has dishonored them)

You can help.

Visit http://www.stopfamilyviolence.org today to send a free message to your legislators urging them to contact Attorney General Ashcroft immediately, and asking him to recognize gender-based persecution as a legitimate basis for asylum.
The web site has links to many articles explaining why the US should extend asylum to refugees who are victims of domestic violence. For those who already agree, I hope you will visit the site to add your voice to Ms. Alvarado's appeal. For those who do not already agree, I hope you will visit the site to learn why some of us do feel this is a good thing to do.

Good article there Novaland.

[renata]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Physical size has nothing to do with domestic violence. Men suffer from the terror of domestic violence at the same rate as women suffer from it. Domestic violence can be emotional and small wicked evil women can use weapons to hit men with and they do so regularly.



Interesting and relevant study
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/02/24/violence.report/index.html


Current or former spouses, boyfriends and other intimate partners were responsible for 20 percent of nonfatal violence against females 12 and older in 2001, according to a new report by the Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics.
....

By contrast, just 3 percent of nonfatal violence against males was committed by intimate partners, according to the report released Sunday.

The bureau said there were 588,490 nonfatal assaults against women in 2001, compared with 103,230 against men.
...

The total number of simple assaults against women in 2001 numbered 421,550 against women and 50,310 against men.

Aggravated assaults numbered at 81,140 female victims and 36,350 males; there were 44,060 female and 16,570 male robbery victims; and 41,740 females were victims of nonfatal rape and sexual assault, while not enough males in the sample fell into that category to tally, the report said.
...

In 2000, 1,247 women and 440 men were killed by an intimate partner, the report said.