Have you become more or less religious since Sep 11, 2001

[crocodile deathroll]

Just a simple question to this poll, have you become more a less religious since September 11 2001

[Samus]

I voted for the last option, as it most closely fits (and since you didn't include an "Other" option). Truth be told, I don't hate religion any more or less because of 11 Sept. My views toward organized religion in general have been on the same path for years before 11 Sept, and that event specifically (and the religious outpouring since) didn't really affect that path.

So, while my distaste for organized religion has increased, it had already been increasing prior to the attacks. The only thing I didn't like was the overuse of the phrase "god bless America", because I think it's very selfish and arrogant of us to think that if there was a god, he'd somehow give the U.S. special treatment.

[Upchurch]

hmm...

Since my fiancee and I are getting ready to join a church, I guess I have to say I'm "more religious", although only in the sense that I actually go somewhere on Sunday mornings. My world view hasn't changed, per se.

And anyway, this is nearly two years after 9/11 and I don't see any direct connection. If I work at it, I can come up with a Rube Goldberg-type indirect connection, but its silly.

[Nucular]

I am not more or less religious. I am more or less an atheist.

I voted no change, because although it was all dressed up in Islamic clothes, I think it's more accurate to view suicidal terrorism and embracing of extreme fundamentalism as a political, social and psychological reaction to circumstances and events, rather than a religious act.

That's what I think.

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by crocodile deathroll
Just a simple question to this poll, have you become more a less religious since September 11 2001

Didn't really make a change in how I viewed religion.

I do remember, for the first week or so after 9/11, thinking that we "had it coming". I regret ever having that thought.

-Elliot

[Dragonrock]

I was already on my journey back out of religion, the terrorist attacks just pushed me a little faster.

[diddidit]

The last one, only not "hate" so much as just rejection of. I view faith, particularly blind faith, as one of the forces behind that day.

did

[Nyarlathotep]

I was not religious before 9/11 and I am not religious now so I can't say that it chnaged me in that regard except for making me much more aware of how much harm fanatics can do and making me much more wary of fanatics.

9/11 changed me in a different way. I never had a lot of faith in humanity to begin with and what little bit I had evaporated inthe days following the attacks. It wasn't the attacks themselves so much, there will always be murderering slime in the world and I was no less aware of that fact then than I am now. My faith in human nature died when I saw how people reacted to the attacks. I amnot talking about people of any one group, I am talking about people on all sides of the political and ideological fence. The way people reacted sickened me and made me very ashamed to be the same species as them.

I saw Arabs celebrating the deaths of thousands of innocent people. I saw Americans clamoring for us to go over and kill thousands of innocent Arabs in revenge (I am NOT talking about the war in Afghanistan here, I am talking about how many people I heard say things to the effect of "we need to go bomb the hell out of some of their cities, that'll show 'em" in the days immediately following the attacks). I saw countless people from all over the world (including supposedly friendly countries like Canada and the UK), on the internet, on news shows, and in person, say things like "You Americans got exactly what you deserved", though what those thousands of people did to deserve a horrible, fiery death was and is unclear to me to this day.

Even before 9/11 I suspected that the human race was, despite our veneer of civilization, still a bunch of savage bloodthirsty barabrians at heart, however, I still held out some hope that I was wrong. 9/11 took that hope away from me forever and I am deeply sadened by the loss.

[T'ai Chi]

Originally posted by Nucular

, I think it's more accurate to view suicidal terrorism and embracing of extreme fundamentalism as a political, social and psychological reaction to circumstances and events, rather than a religious act.


I agree 100%.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Nucular
I am not more or less religious. I am more or less an atheist.

I voted no change, because although it was all dressed up in Islamic clothes, I think it's more accurate to view suicidal terrorism and embracing of extreme fundamentalism as a political, social and psychological reaction to circumstances and events, rather than a religious act.

That's what I think.

Religion may not have been the sole contributor to 9/11 but I think it would be naive to absolve it of all blame either. It was a factor just as politics was a factor, psychology was a factor etc.

Ther is no way to know with 100% certainty what goes on in the depths of another persons mind but I seriously doubt that the hijackers would have did what they did if they didn't feel that they were doing what was right. And religion was one of the things (maybe not the only thing, but one of the things) that was telling them that killing all of these people was right. It gave them justification for their acts and it promised them a reward for their acts.

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep


Religion may not have been the sole contributor to 9/11 but I think it would be naive to absolve it of all blame either. It was a factor just as politics was a factor, psychology was a factor etc.

Ther is no way to know with 100% certainty what goes on in the depths of another persons mind but I seriously doubt that the hijackers would have did what they did if they didn't feel that they were doing what was right. And religion was one of the things (maybe not the only thing, but one of the things) that was telling them that killing all of these people was right. It gave them justification for their acts and it promised them a reward for their acts.

Correct. Religion (in general? like that's even possible?) needs to examine itself in light of 9/11. In light of anything. Just like science needed to examine itself in light of the A-Bomb or chemical weapons and what not.

-Elliot

[diddidit]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
My faith in human nature died when I saw how people reacted to the attacks.

My faith in humanity actually held up pretty well - the actions and reactions of those most directly affected was pretty remarkable.

Other than that, I'd have to agree with the rest of your post. I recall one person on another forum saying, verbatim, "I want blood. I want it now." This was within hours of the attacks.

did

[diddidit]

Originally posted by elliotfc


Correct. Religion (in general? like that's even possible?) needs to examine itself in light of 9/11. In light of anything. Just like science needed to examine itself in light of the A-Bomb or chemical weapons and what not.

-Elliot

"Science" is no more, and almost certainly much less, a monolithic body than any religion, or even religion "in general." In any case. neither science nor religion are sentient beings capable of self-reflection anyway - that responsibility falls to individual adherents, whatever their belief system. I didn't see much of that happen post-9/11.

did

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by diddidit


My faith in humanity actually held up pretty well - the actions and reactions of those most directly affected was pretty remarkable.

Other than that, I'd have to agree with the rest of your post. I recall one person on another forum saying, verbatim, "I want blood. I want it now." This was within hours of the attacks.

did

I wish my faith in humanity had held up. I kind of miss thinking that a peaceful, "Star Trek"-y kind of future was a possibility. Since 9/11 all I can hope for is that we don't have a hellhole, "Blade Runner"-y future, or worse.

[diddidit]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep


I wish my faith in humanity had held up. I kind of miss thinking that a peaceful, "Star Trek"-y kind of future was a possibility. Since 9/11 all I can hope for is that we don't have a hellhole, "Blade Runner"-y future, or worse.

Let me clarify: what I saw was that, during an immediate crisis, people seem to be ready to help other people. That's good. People removed from the crisis seem to be chest-thumping armchair quarterbacks/generals/talking heads/whathaveyou.

Ah, the fabled Star Trek future...

did

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep


I wish my faith in humanity had held up. I kind of miss thinking that a peaceful, "Star Trek"-y kind of future was a possibility. Since 9/11 all I can hope for is that we don't have a hellhole, "Blade Runner"-y future, or worse.

I know what you're saying Nyarlathotep...but I'm sure people said the same thing after World War II. And after World War I. And after whatever happened in the past.

Should we learn from history? I think we should. Having faith in humanity as far as day to day activity goes is absolutely necessary. But is there something wrong with humanity in general? Yes, I think so. We can trumpet that our specific religion, or are humanism, or are atheism, or whatever excludes us from this generalization. But in the big picture, it's very clear that humanity has a fundamental streak towards destruction. The word *conscience* will turn some of you off, but thank God we have something inside of us to restrain ourselves, to cause us to express moral outrage, to force ourselves to correct our behavior...until it happens again. And it will not be in the same form. Christians this century, atheists the next. No group of persons is immune.

-Elliot

[alfaniner]

I think that generally there are more good people than bad people.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by alfaniner
I think that generally there are more good people than bad people.

I think the vast majority of people are neither particularly good nor particularly bad. I think the bad people of the world, though, have much easier time having an impact on the world than the good, thus they have an effect disproportionate to their numbers.

[Ipecac]

While 9/11 did show the barbaric side of human nature, it also highlighted much of the good; the self-sacrifice, the courage, and the devotion of people to help others.

Of all the stories that I've heard post 9/11, this one always chokes me up.

German Ship (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/winston.htm)

[Tormac]

People have always killed each other for "religious" reasons. The tragic murder of thousands of people is unfortunately nothing new. If one is worried about the future of our society, I would recommend reading about the history of our society. Although as a species we have a long way to go, we have improved quite a bit (IMHO).

A favorite history book of mine is “Distant Mirror:The Calamitous Fourteenth Century” by Barbara Tuchman. This may be a little perverse, but after reading about the commonplace murder, rape, and general violence of our past (or western civilization at least) , I am confident that we are slowly getting better.

[Jet Grind]

Nothing that happened on 9/11 really surprised me. I was a bit startled when I first heard it, but in no way surprised. I also foresaw the overrunning of this country by oppurtunistic godbots. None of it changed my (a)religious opinions, I remain an atheist.

[swstephe]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
I wish my faith in humanity had held up. I kind of miss thinking that a peaceful, "Star Trek"-y kind of future was a possibility. Since 9/11 all I can hope for is that we don't have a hellhole, "Blade Runner"-y future, or worse.

If I remember correctly, according to the Star Trek series, mankind was nearly wiped out by a "Clone War" before it started to get better. (Perhaps they meant reality TV clones?).

I'm old enough to remember magazines filled with pictures of flying cars, fully automated houses and robots that did all the work for you. I look back on the previous decades as a gradual descent into reality.

[swstephe]

I became more religious that I already was. It showed the true colors of the religions and verified my rational choices. It really sorted out the racist and violent religions from the tollerant and peaceful ones.

[Lord Muck oGentry]

Godless then, godless now.
The claims of religion are not made more plausible by decent acts or less plausible by vile acts.

[crocodile deathroll]

Yes I felt so strongly about this issue I view as the day religion diisgraced itself because not only we witnessed those fanatical Islamicists doing those acts of extreme vandalism and carnage in the name of their "god", but we also had Bush responding with a call to a crusade and thus antagonizing them even further.

I feel we must really see reason and forget about these old holy books like the bible a koran as the pathway to truth. We must for the sake of the survival of our future civilization move on from all that religious irrationalism.

CDR

[Teh Wiccan]

I changed my religon since then... does that count?

[urstardust]

I feel we must really see reason and forget about these old holy books like the bible a koran as the pathway to truth. We must for the sake of the survival of our future civilization move on from all that religious irrationalism.

I feel the same way, but how? How do we as nonreligious/atheist preach to the world that there is no one out there (that we know of) that going to help us? How do we preach to the world without being one of the jackasses that tell people what they should do like (religious irrationalism).

[sorgoth]

I doubt the terrorists would have gone on a suicidal mission if they didn't think they were going to be rewarded in the afterlife for it. So it made me hate religion even more.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by diddidit
The last one, only not "hate" so much as just rejection of. I view faith, particularly blind faith, as one of the forces behind that day.

did
I feel the same way.

I voted for the last option for many many reasons. Hijackers gained control of planes, with the intention of "proving a point" or whatever the f**k they were thinking, they exercised an act of terrorism that crippled America and left 1000s dead. All done in the name of religion, done in the name of Allah. IGNORANCE! F**KING IGNORANCE! And to think, they honestly believed -- because they had strong inner convictions -- that what they were doing was not only right, it was justified and they expected to be martyred and live happily in Heaven forever.

Nothing has turned me off more to religion than 9/11...

[triadboy]

I picked the last one. Until Muslims, Christians and Jews get their crap together and realize they are believing and acting on a lie - it won't end.

[Ipecac]

Originally posted by swstephe
If I remember correctly, according to the Star Trek series, mankind was nearly wiped out by a "Clone War" before it started to get better. (Perhaps they meant reality TV clones?).


Not clones (that's Star Wars!). The Eugenics Wars. Doesn't sound too futuristic any more, does it?

[Spillage!]

I answered the last post as it was the closest to my convictions.
I am, and have always been, since maturity, an agnostic/atheistic person. Far too sceptical to believe all that religious crap based on "Cave instinct" dregs.
I have to agree, no matter how right or wrong, that the extremist Muslim activists were only reacting rather than acting.
If it was soley based on religion however, they would have targetted a greater source of destruction, and, indeed, targeted many more over the last few years.
It was all a bit convenient that it happened as BUSH was itching to have an "oil war" and also support the Israely interest!
Then again........I'm only a Yorkshireman tha norrz!
"Si thi" *See you*:wink8:

[swstephe]

It is interesting to me that most comments so far have indicated that the people who practice a religion define the religion and push people toward or away from a religion itself. If that is the case, a religion's dogma is incidental.

I wonder if it is fair to use the history of the Soviet Union as an indicator of the validity of atheism in general? Or even after the fall of the Soviet Union, countries like former East Germany which is still 80% athiest as a model of whether atheism is a valid dogma???

I don't think it is a fair association. In my mind, it is the religion that establishes a foundation for the people who practice it, not the other way around. There will always be people who claim membership in a group, but reinterpret the ideals to their own ends.

[Gulliamo]

Prior to 9/11 my thoughts about religion were, "So what if it’s all bu11$h!t. It's a good way to live and it doesn't really hurt anyone."

9/11 woke me up to the fact that ignorance and delusion can and do hurt people. And the more I looked into it the more I realized that people are hurt by religion as often as not.

This has completely turned me away from religion and delusions of god. I now realize that we have only one life to live and we should live it to its fullest. We should do things because they are the right thing to do. And most importantly we should think for ourselves and come to our own conclusions by learning the facts! Not by acting on blind faith!

[crocodile deathroll]

Originally posted by Teh Wiccan
I changed my religon since then... does that count?

If your last religion was run by a lot of xenophibic bible thumping fundies then you have swiched to another that is more open to reason because of Sep 11, that would qualify you for #4

[evildave]

No change in religiousness.

A little more sensitive to and less forgiving of religious "quirks".