Guns don't kill people. Gun SHOWS kill people!

[shemp]

Hollidaysburg Man Killed When Machine Gun Discharges At Blair County Gun Show (http://www.wjactv.com/news/14106612/detail.html)

HOLLIDAYSBURG, Pa. -- An auxiliary officer for a local police department was killed when a machine gun discharged at a private gun show in Blair County.

Michael Kurty, 36, of Hollidaysburg, was killed Wednesday night during a gun expo at the Hollidaysburg Sportsmen's Club.

Police said a Gatling mini-gun attached to a Humvee fired a few thousand rounds earlier in the evening before it discharged and released a fatal shot to Kurty's head.

""What appears to have happened is there was some sort of a jam and when they were trying to clear the jam is when the gun actually went off," said Pennsylvania State Police trooper Jeff Petucci.

Officials said Kurty was proficient in all types of firearms ...

Obviously, he wasn't quite proficient enough.

[Beanbag]

It's difficult to get shot if you stay away from the muzzle end of the weapon. I'm puzzled that he placed himself in the discharge path of a jammed weapon with live ammunition.

Beanbag

[casebro]

I have heard that the earlier gatling guns- Viet Nam era- were set up to fire when rotated. The 'trigger' was the switch that turned on the motor. That plan was changed when some mechanic walked up to one and gave it a twirl. I guess it is possible that one in civilian hands might be surplus from old inventory?

[This Guy]

Hollidaysburg Man Killed When Machine Gun Discharges At Blair County Gun Show (http://www.wjactv.com/news/14106612/detail.html)





Obviously, he wasn't quite proficient enough.

But it appears his aim was good!

[Dan Beaird]

Rule 1: All guns are loaded all the time.

It's the first thing they teach you before they even let you hold a gun.

[Miss Anthrope]

Rule 1: All guns are loaded all the time.

It's the first thing they teach you before they even let you hold a gun.

Yep. The gun is always loaded.

[azazal]

Was he clearing the jam? or was if in frotn of the gun when it went off? If 1, freak accident? If 2, why was he in front of a weapon that jammed while firing live ammo? Did the person or persons clearing the jam not look to make sure the area was safe?

[Tricky]

It has to make you wonder how many times incidents of a similar nature happen when nobody is unlucky enough to be in front of the gun. The odds against such an alignment are reasonably high. "Close calls" and "accidental firings" don't get listed in gun death statistics.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

It has to make you wonder how many times incidents of a similar nature happen when nobody is unlucky enough to be in front of the gun. The odds against such an alignment are reasonably high. "Close calls" and "accidental firings" don't get listed in gun death statistics.
I always appreciated explaining the difference to customers between:
"an accidental firing" - mechanical failure results in the firearm discharging
"unintentional firing" - any "oops" situation

As you can see, clarifying this makes it clear that there are very few "accidental firings"; and that the responsibility for the unintentional discharge is on the individual, not the mechanics.

[Darth Rotor]

Hollidaysburg Man Killed When Machine Gun Discharges At Blair County Gun Show (http://www.wjactv.com/news/14106612/detail.html)

Why do you hate funeral homes?

DR

[Crazycowbob]

I'm a little confused, it just doesn't seem to make sense that someone who was familiar with guns would be in front of a weapon he or she knew was loaded, even if they didn't know it was jammed or not. Just looks more like an issue of someone being stupid than anything else...

[Alareth]

Guns don't kill people. Bullets kill people.

[Giggywig]

I have heard that the earlier gatling guns- Viet Nam era- were set up to fire when rotated. The 'trigger' was the switch that turned on the motor. That plan was changed when some mechanic walked up to one and gave it a twirl. I guess it is possible that one in civilian hands might be surplus from old inventory?
Seems your guess might be right:

It appeared Kurty was shining a flashlight into the barrel to see if the 7.62 mm gun was clear, before the second man rotated the barrel, he said.

"I think the gun went off because the barrel was being rotated," McCalpin said, "I believe they were under the impression that this gun would not fire if it weren't connected."

Source. (http://www.pennlive.com/newsflash/pa/index.ssf?/base/news-54/1190215230238380.xml&storylist=penn)

[Fnord]

Rule 1: All guns are loaded all the time.

It's the first thing they teach you before they even let you hold a gun.

Rule 2: All dogs bite.
Rule 3: All circuits are energized.
Rule 4: All strangers who take a sudden personal interest in you are going to hurt you.

These aren't hard-and-fast rules, but betting against them could get you killed.

Are there more rules of this kind?

[ChaoticLimbs]

It's funny how guns only seem to "go off" when people touch them. They never seem to spontaneously discharge in dresser drawers.
Guns go off when something or someone activates the triggering mechanism. In this case, the barrel was rotated through the firing position.
If anyone has any links to news articles relating to unattended firearms discharging spontaneously, I'd like to see one once. All the links I can find involve people accidentally firing a gun, even though the media likes to misplace blame onto the firearm mechanism.

[Alareth]

It's funny how guns only seem to "go off" when people touch them. They never seem to spontaneously discharge in dresser drawers.
Guns go off when something or someone activates the triggering mechanism. In this case, the barrel was rotated through the firing position.
If anyone has any links to news articles relating to unattended firearms discharging spontaneously, I'd like to see one once. All the links I can find involve people accidentally firing a gun, even though the media likes to misplace blame onto the firearm mechanism.


Loaded weapons have been known to discharge in house/building fires.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

If gun shows are outlawed, only outlaws will have gun shows.

[technoextreme]

It's funny how guns only seem to "go off" when people touch them. They never seem to spontaneously discharge in dresser drawers.
Guns go off when something or someone activates the triggering mechanism. In this case, the barrel was rotated through the firing position.
If anyone has any links to news articles relating to unattended firearms discharging spontaneously, I'd like to see one once. All the links I can find involve people accidentally firing a gun, even though the media likes to misplace blame onto the firearm mechanism.

Loaded weapons have been known to discharge in house/building fires.
And ovens. Don't forget your ovens.

[sthomson]

And ovens. Don't forget your ovens.

But only if you strap it down to the oven rack.

[bigred]

Making fun of a tragic death. How classy and mature.

Bout that 9/11, what a riot eh? Bet some of you have some great 1-liners for that.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Making fun of a tragic death. How classy and mature.

Bout that 9/11, what a riot eh? Bet some of you have some great 1-liners for that.

I have a few.

[armageddonman]

It's neither guns NOR people who kill people.

It's the BULLETS.

Am I actually the first one to notice this?

[jsiv]

It's neither guns NOR people who kill people.

It's the BULLETS.

Am I actually the first one to notice this?


Disrespectful to all the people that have been bludgeoned to death with a firearm.

And the people that have been killed by one falling on their head.

[Crazycowbob]

Rule 2: All dogs bite.
Rule 3: All circuits are energized.
Rule 4: All strangers who take a sudden personal interest in you are going to hurt you.

These aren't hard-and-fast rules, but betting against them could get you killed.

Are there more rules of this kind?

Reminds me of what my dad taught me when he was teaching me about guns

"Treat every gun as if it were loaded"

and

"Never point a gun at anyone, for any reason, unless you intend to kill them"

Gun safety was something he took very seriously, and as a result, I don't think we were ever in any danger of an "accident".

[e-sabbath]

Disrespectful to all the people that have been bludgeoned to death with a firearm.
And those who happened to carry a Type 94 pistol.

[shemp]

Disrespectful to all the people that have been bludgeoned to death with a firearm.

And the people that have been killed by one falling on their head.

How dare you disrespect the millions of innocent victims who have swallowed a gun and choked to death!?

[jsiv]

I am proud of my prejudice.

[CptColumbo]

Guns don't kill people, it's those little hard things that come out of them that kill you.

"If it ain't the bullet that gets ya, it's the fall."

[NeoRicen]

People kill people with guns, why is that so hard to understand.

[Plantfoam]

And those who happened to carry a Type 94 pistol.

Hey, gotta love having an exposed sear eh?

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

Any time a firearms accident occurs, you can be sure that one or more of the basic safety rules was not followed. In this case, the firearm was not pointed in the safest possible direction. An unfortunate and tragic result, at any rate.

[CptColumbo]

Any time a firearms accident occurs, you can be sure that one or more of the basic safety rules was not followed. In this case, the firearm was not pointed in the safest possible direction. An unfortunate and tragic result, at any rate.My family never owned a pistol, but we did have a rifle and a shotgun. We were always taught to never point a gun at another person, even when you know it's unloaded (look at what happened to Brandon Lee and Jon-Erik Hexum).

I don't currently own a gun, but still teach the kids the same thing.

[Normal Dude]

Bad firearms handling, pure and simple, especially with something like a gatling gun that people in general are not familiar with.

This is why it is important to understand how a specific weapon works (and especially how it fires) before you try to do maintenance on it.

[Tokenconservative]

It's difficult to get shot if you stay away from the muzzle end of the weapon. I'm puzzled that he placed himself in the discharge path of a jammed weapon with live ammunition.

Beanbag

Indeed. Very difficult. I note that the "news" article fails to mention WHY the discharge occured...did somebody pull the trigger while he was looking down the muzzle or whatever, or did the evil GUN just up and decide to take another innocent life?

Tokie

[Tokenconservative]

My family never owned a pistol, but we did have a rifle and a shotgun. We were always taught to never point a gun at another person, even when you know it's unloaded (look at what happened to Brandon Lee and Jon-Erik Hexum).

I don't currently own a gun, but still teach the kids the same thing.

We own guns. I've taught my kids how, but more importantly WHEN to point a gun at another person.

Tokie

[Alareth]

It's neither guns NOR people who kill people.

It's the BULLETS.

Am I actually the first one to notice this?


No, you aren't (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3016177&postcount=12)

[Lonewulf]

Bullets don't kill people, kinetic energy does.

Also, when falling: The ground doesn't kill you, going from 60 MPH to 0 in 0.00001 seconds does.

[Merko]

Guns are designed to be lethal. A gatling mini-gun is designed to be VERY lethal. I can't see how people find it remarkable that quite often, despite the intents of everyone involved, guns work the way they have been carefully crafted to do by thousands of highly intelligent designers over the course of centuries.

[Lonewulf]

Guns are designed to be lethal. A gatling mini-gun is designed to be VERY lethal. I can't see how people find it remarkable that quite often, despite the intents of everyone involved, guns work the way they have been carefully crafted to do by thousands of highly intelligent designers over the course of centuries.
Because guns aren't designed to be randomly lethal?

A gun doesn't jump up and aim at you.

[Alareth]

From an episode of All in the Family:

Gloria: Do you know how many people are killed by handguns every year?

Archie: Would it make you feel any better if they were pushed out of windows?

[Hamradioguy]

I think the military term for this is "Unloading through the muzzle".

Why would anyone stand in front of a firearm when there was an ongoing attempt to clear a jam?

(Well, I guess people do stupid things: At a vehicle fire a few years ago the owner rushed up after we had put out the fire. The vehicle was burned to a crisp. He reached in and extracted a muzzle loader that was so badly burned that the stock was gone, then peered down the barrel to see how badly damaged it was. You should have seen all the bystanders run in every direction.)

[Lonewulf]

I think the military term for this is "Unloading through the muzzle".

Why would anyone stand in front of a firearm when there was an ongoing attempt to clear a jam?

(Well, I guess people do stupid things: At a vehicle fire a few years ago the owner rushed up after we had put out the fire. The vehicle was burned to a crisp. He reached in and extracted a muzzle loader that was so badly burned that the stock was gone, then peered down the barrel to see how badly damaged it was. You should have seen all the bystanders run in every direction.)
If that man died, he would have been nominated for a Darwin Award.

[sthomson]

Indeed. Very difficult. I note that the "news" article fails to mention WHY the discharge occured...did somebody pull the trigger while he was looking down the muzzle or whatever, or did the evil GUN just up and decide to take another innocent life?

Tokie

I found an updated article here (http://www.wjactv.com/news/14115236/detail.html). It seems like JREFers could have been right - they disconnected power to the gun, but didn't know that the firing pin could still be activated.

[baron]

I think the military term for this is "Unloading through the muzzle".

Why would anyone stand in front of a firearm when there was an ongoing attempt to clear a jam?

(Well, I guess people do stupid things...)

I'd suggest that the stupid thing here was attaching a Gatling gun to a Humvee outside of a warzone, but that's just me.

[Gnu Ordure]

Crazycowbob's Dad said :

"Never point a gun at anyone, for any reason, unless you intend to kill them"

CptColumbo said:

We were always taught to never point a gun at another person, even when you know it's unloaded


What I don't understand (as an Angleland dweller where there aren't many guns), is how you get a kid to respect this rule, when they are shown images of their heroes breaking it every time they turn on the television or go to an action movie.

How do you explain that the rule applies to them, even when they're playing make-believe, but not to Mel Gibson when he's playing make-believe ?


In fact, never mind a kid, can someone please explain it to me ? Are there exceptions to this rule, or not ?


Thanks,

Gnu.

[Swagomatic]

I have a friend who is a member of a gun club here in AZ. They have a permit to use a machine gun -- which they take turns shooting during their gun club get-togethers. Anyway, during one of their outings, my friend was hit by a ricochet from the machine gun, which was fired into the ground. He was hit in the cheek, and required minor surgery to remove the bullet fragment. All of which proves, (I guess) that even experienced gun users occasionally screw the pooch.

Edit: Typos/Grammar

[jsiv]

People kill people with guns, why is that so hard to understand.


People with no guns are sometimes killed too.

[TX50]

What I don't understand (as an Angleland dweller where there aren't many guns), is how you get a kid to respect this rule, when they are shown images of their heroes breaking it every time they turn on the television or go to an action movie.
How do you explain that the rule applies to them, even when they're playing make-believe, but not to Mel Gibson when he's playing make-believe ?




That's the whole point of proper weapon training. You get kids to respect
the rules by strenuously enforcing them on the range or in the field. With
proper instruction, shooters very soon get disabused of any fantasies they
may have got from films.

This guy who got shot in the face by the gatling gun died of stupidity [for
peering down the muzzle end of a loaded gun] and ignorance [for futzing
with a weapon system he wasn't trained on].

[sthomson]

How do you explain that the rule applies to them, even when they're playing make-believe, but not to Mel Gibson when he's playing make-believe ?

In fact, never mind a kid, can someone please explain it to me ? Are there exceptions to this rule, or not ?

Thanks,

Gnu.

How do you explain to a kid that people only come back from the dead on TV? Or to look both ways before crossing the street, even though TV stars don't do it?

The way my mamma taught me, there are NO exceptions to the rule. If I'm pointing a gun at you, I am mentally ready and willing to shoot you, perhaps fatally. Otherwise, I better keep the barrel pointed down.

[Orangutan]

Making fun of a tragic death. How classy and mature.

Bout that 9/11, what a riot eh? Bet some of you have some great 1-liners for that.

Nature and functions of gallows humor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallows_humor#Nature_and_functions_of_gallows_humo r