Firefighting at the Pentagon

[Calcas]

Lcf has a new poster over there who goes by YouCan'tHandleTheTruth who is apparently a firefighter. I haven't read all of his posts yet so I'm not sure if he was at the Pentagon or perhaps was based out of Regan National.

Anyway, check out this thread where he debates "Terral", who seems to be their new "expert" from 911Truth. YCHTT schools Terral like a spoiled stepchild.

But, I learned more about firefighting techniques, trucks, procedures, hoses, etc. in this one thread than I have anywhere else. Really, really good stuff.

He's pretty funny too. Here is part of one retort.

QUOTE (from Terral)
"Look over to the right to realize the entire roof has now fallen! Your fire that was localized in proximity to the 20-feet diameter entry hole has now spread over a hundred feet to the third and fourth floors!"


YCHTT replies, in part, "Stop with this 20 foot hole crap. if you cant tell size yet no girl is going to believe your package is 8 inches."



These are LONG posts and replies. Scroll down to the reply from YCHTC that begins at 4:25pm.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=14796&st=50

[MarkyX]

Give Mark Roberts a beer, or this guy? Decisions, decisions.

[Mangoose]

Hope YouCan'tHandleTheTruth heads over here when LCFers ban him later today.

[jhunter1163]

Someone should put a plug for JREF in that thread. We could use that guy.

ETA: Done. Hope he sees it before they delete it.

[NYCEMT86]

I would love for this guy to come over here. I would also like to bounce some ideas off of him, I will tell you guys this, PG (Prince Georges) County is a busy county and the firefighters there are insane, but very good at what they do.

BTW, he is a vollie firefighter with the Greenbelt Fire Department, I am not sure if he is also paid because most of the guys do both.



*ETA: I just registered at the LCF (first time ever but I wont ever post) and sent him a PM about this forum.

[Alferd_Packer]

It seems like Terrel is not very respected over there.

[Denial]

I have to say I love his style; although confrontational at times, being named as an accomplice to mass murder could make anyone pissed off.

The five companies of firemen from his department alone could have filled this 20-feet diameter entry hole with enough water to fill a hundred Olympic size pools in one hour


This is a pet peeve of mine, but the volume of an Olympic sized swimming pool is not a fixed value. The length and width has to be 50mx25m, but the depth is only required to be 2 meters or more. Using "2.500m3 (2.500.000 liters) or more" as a unit of measurement is mindboggingly stupid and it grates my nerves everytime I see someone use it.

[Myriad]

This is a pet peeve of mine, but the volume of an Olympic sized swimming pool is not a fixed value. The length and width has to be 50mx25m, but the depth is only required to be 2 meters or more. Using "2.500m3 (2.500.000 liters) or more" as a unit of measurement is mindboggingly stupid and it grates my nerves everytime I see someone use it.


Sorry, Denial, but the Olympic Sized Swimming Pool is one of the Official Media Units of Measure (volume) in the U.S. It is defined as approximately 1/500th of one Enough To Fill (insert local name here) Stadium.

Other units in this system include:

The chest X-ray (radiation exposure)
The football field (length)
The aircraft carrier (length, especially -- strangely enough -- height; often seen accompanied by ludicrous graphics featuring aircraft carriers tipped vertically)
The Hiroshima bomb (energy)
The tank of gas (energy, or sometimes price)
The coal-fired power plant (power)
The size of the period at the end of "this sentence." (area)
The eye blink (time)
The jackhammer (sound intensity)
Rhode Island (area)


Back on topic: Some very impressive and informative posts by YCHTT. Well worth reading. (You mean, the most effective way to fight a fire and prevent it from spreading inside a building, is NOT to stand outside in plain sight and direct the biggest hose stream you can manage at the biggest flames you can see? That can't be true! The firefighters must have LIBOP)!

I hope YCHTT does come here, if only so I can thank him (whatever his exact role was) and his brothers for doing such a great job that day. From everything I've read, the Pentagon fire was a bad one, tricky and (due to some oddities of the building's construction) hard to predict, which made it dangerous as hell to go in there. Though it doesn't seem so from the pictures or from the final outcome, I get the impression (and this might be an example of the kind of thing that really has been informally "covered up" about 9/11) that it was a close call not to lose the whole building.

Respectfully,
Myriad

[Horatius]

Yes, this fellow does have a nice turn of phrase:


Your truck is spraying a fine mist and making a nice show, but where is the steady stream aimed at the fire inside the building?


First, if you think that is such a fine mist I invite you to stand in front of it. That is 1000 gallons of water per minute (1000 out of that nozzle and 1000 out of the other=2000) in a "Straight stream pattern shooting well over 200 feet at 50PSI. I don’t think you would like it very much, if you survived.

[Drudgewire]

I LOVE this dude. :lolsign:

[Denial]

Sorry, Denial, but the Olympic Sized Swimming Pool is one of the Official Media Units of Measure (volume) in the U.S. It is defined as approximately 1/500th of one Enough To Fill (insert local name here) Stadium.

I tried really hard to figure out what you mean with your definition, but it doesn't make sense to me. Defined approximately? Enough to fill a what stadium? And what's the size of that stadium?

What is the purpose of this unit of measure? To accurately describe volume, or to give a layperson some vague indication of volume? Either way, the volume of an Olympic Sized Swimming Pool ain't a fixed value, so I stand by my original assertion that it's a stupid thing for now. Also, I couldn't find any references to Olympic Sized Swimming Pools anywhere at sites where US standards of measurement were listed, could you help me out here, please?

Now, a OSSP will always have the same surface area (1250m²), but the volume is subject to change, depending on depth.

Sorry for this derail, I'll start a separate thread if it drags on.

[LibraryLady]

I think it was a joke.

[Drudgewire]

Sorry, Denial, but the Olympic Sized Swimming Pool is one of the Official Media Units of Measure (volume) in the U.S. It is defined as approximately 1/500th of one Enough To Fill (insert local name here) Stadium.

Holy rule10balls, I would have SWORN you were kidding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_strange_units_of_measurement

:jaw-dropp

[Denial]

I think it was a joke.

If that's the case, I swallowed hook, line and sinker. :D

ETA:
Holy rule10balls, I would have SWORN you were kidding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_strange_units_of_measurement

:jaw-dropp

So the media incorrectly assumes that an OSSP is 2 meters deep. :boggled: What a silly thing to do.

[Calcas]

Back on topic: Some very impressive and informative posts by YCHTT. Well worth reading. (You mean, the most effective way to fight a fire and prevent it from spreading inside a building, is NOT to stand outside in plain sight and direct the biggest hose stream you can manage at the biggest flames you can see? That can't be true! The firefighters must have LIBOP)!


I agree that his post is chock full of good info. Another example:

"The reason the firefighters are not putting that fire out is because they are not concerned with it yet. The reason they are not concerned with it is because it is already on fire. They are concerned with what is not on fire and how They can keep it that way. They are using what we educated people like to call Tactics. To extinguish a fire you must first contain it and keep it from spreading. That is most likely why his is walking all that way. You start from the area that is not burned and work towards what is burning. If you don’t you can actually "Push" the fire into uninvolved areas."

That may be firefighting 101 but it was news to me. And it obviously makes perfect sense. It just goes to show you that those of us who are not expert in a particular field have no business making assumptions about how things should be done, or are done.

It's the same old lame argument that we hear from the twoofers on all things 9/11. "How could steel frame buildings (WTC) fall due to fire alone? blah blah blah...

[BigAl]

I get the impression (and this might be an example of the kind of thing that really has been informally "covered up" about 9/11) that it was a close call not to lose the whole


I bet their radios didn't fail them. IMO, this is the big scandal adding to the death of NYC firemen. It was swept under the rug even before 2001. Being in bedroom community of FDNY folks, I had a neighbor that was a retired FDNY communications engineer that made dark comments about malfeasance in selecting the radios in the 90s. I was told this before 2001. I lost touch with him before 9/11. This really isn't news, it should be front page news.

(yes, comms was not as difficult a problem at the Pentagon, from what I've heard.)

[Gravy]

A classic quote from YCHTT:

You're right, we are entitled to our own opinions. Im also entitled to tell you that your claims are full of crap. The only thing that is ridiculous here is that someone (you) who was neither at the pentagon on 9/11/01 nor knows ANYONE that was, has never seen the building with their own eyes, is drawing conclusions about an attack on the worlds largest office building (forget that its the pentagon) based on a few pictures. Man Im glad we have you. If real investigations worked like that we would really save a lot of time. Not to mention a few trees. I know a little about investigations (we do one after EVERY fire, no matter how small) and never ONCE has the lead investigator come to the scene, take 3 pictures and leave thinking he/she had all the evidence they needed.

[Gravy]

This really isn't news, it should be front page news. It has been at times, in New York. Some articles here (http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/fdny%26otherwtcfirstresponders).

[Horatius]

I agree that his post is chock full of good info. Another example:

"The reason the firefighters are not putting that fire out is because they are not concerned with it yet. The reason they are not concerned with it is because it is already on fire. They are concerned with what is not on fire and how They can keep it that way. They are using what we educated people like to call Tactics. To extinguish a fire you must first contain it and keep it from spreading. That is most likely why his is walking all that way. You start from the area that is not burned and work towards what is burning. If you don’t you can actually "Push" the fire into uninvolved areas."

That may be firefighting 101 but it was news to me. And it obviously makes perfect sense. It just goes to show you that those of us who are not expert in a particular field have no business making assumptions about how things should be done, or are done.

It's the same old lame argument that we hear from the twoofers on all things 9/11. "How could steel frame buildings (WTC) fall due to fire alone? blah blah blah...


And of course Terral manages to completely ignore this part, and posts this image:


http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Terral03/NoFight1.jpg


Note all the snarky comments about "wasted foam", that seems to have been used in just the way YouCantHandleTheTruth has described.


But what would he know, right? :rolleyes:

[gumboot]

I bet their radios didn't fail them. IMO, this is the big scandal adding to the death of NYC firemen. It was swept under the rug even before 2001. Being in bedroom community of FDNY folks, I had a neighbor that was a retired FDNY communications engineer that made dark comments about malfeasance in selecting the radios in the 90s. I was told this before 2001. I lost touch with him before 9/11. This really isn't news, it should be front page news.

(yes, comms was not as difficult a problem at the Pentagon, from what I've heard.)



The really sad thing is the radios at the WTC worked fine. The volume on the transponder relay control at the desk in WTC1 was probably just set to low volume, so when the firefighters tested it they couldn't hear anything. In a busy, dangerous, and tense moment they made an error and assumed the transponder wasn't working, so reverted to using the hand-helds without it (something which was never going to work).

The question is, how many FDNY personnel would have been saved? A lot of firefighters in WTC1 knew about the general evacuation order, but delayed in leaving or ignored it.

-Gumboot

[Sabrina]

Under his name, it says Group:Gone. Does that mean he's banned?

[Horatius]

Under his name, it says Group:Gone. Does that mean he's banned?



Yes, it does.


Yet another Victory For Teh Twoof!

[Sabrina]

Well, I hope he comes over here then; we could use another good debunker.

[MarkyX]

Wow they actually banned a firefighter. So much for respecting the heroes.

[Calcas]

Well, I hope he comes over here then; we could use another good debunker.

I've talked to him over there. His account here is registering now. :)

[PhantomWolf]

I wonder is he and sts60 know each other. sts is a volunteer for Montgomery County IIRC.

[leftysergeant]

The person who commented on wasted foam really stepped on it when he pointed out two men standing on the edge of the foam blanket ans asks "What are these people doing?" Then adds right below that:"We do not want to get our feet all foamy."

Guess he doesn't know that you walk as little on foam as you can manage, because breaking the foam blanket can allow re-ignition of hot fuel.

Is Terral possibly KClown or one of his clones? He's the king of Pentagon fire snark.

[Travis]

Absolutely brilliant. I can't wait for this guy to finish joining up here.

[peteweaver]

Quite cowardly for them to ban someone for having a different opinion.

I guess that his you can't handle the truth id was quite prophetic, because they really really cannot cope with reality.

Glad they haven't deleted his posts yet because he made some bloomin good points.

[T.A.M.]

How unusual...banned at LCF for telling the truth...who would have guessed.

TAM:)

[ref]

He continues posting as YCHTT.

[T.A.M.]

so he was not banned? This is confusing...

TAM:)

[ref]

so he was not banned? This is confusing...

TAM:)

His screen name "YouCantHandleTheTruth" was banned, and now he posts as "YCHTT".

[Travis]

Well an IP banning can't be far off then.

[sts60]

I wonder is he and sts60 know each other. sts is a volunteer for Montgomery County IIRC.
I know a number of guys and gals who volunteer or are career in PG, but don't recall knowing anybody who volunteers at Greenbelt.

I do know, and ride with, a number of career FFs who were at the Pentagon that day, responding with MC's USAR (Urban Search And Rescue) team. I mentioned the "no plane hit the Pentagon" claim to one of them once. He just rolled his eyes. :D

[Horatius]

Guess he doesn't know that you walk as little on foam as you can manage, because breaking the foam blanket can allow re-ignition of hot fuel.





It's things like that that let you know whether or not a person knows what he's talking about - knowing the little details, and knowing why those details are important. I didn't know this about the foam layer, but I'm willing to admit I didn't know that, and that I don't know a lot of other thigs about firefighting.

If only the twoofers could be so honest!

[T.A.M.]

ahhh...

I just assumed they IP banned anyone who was "banned".

TAM:)

[Travis]

ahhh...

I just assumed they IP banned anyone who was "banned".

TAM:)

Maybe it's a special type of banning reserved for those suspected of being, or having ever been, affiliated with JREF.

[T.A.M.]

possibly, given "JREFer" seems to be the favorite insult/cuss word from the truthers as a whole, and the LCF in particular.

TAM:)

[Calcas]

ahhh...

I just assumed they IP banned anyone who was "banned".

TAM:)
I thought IP banning was almost a thing of the past now that there are so many people with dynamic IP's. I really don't know that much about it but lcf doesn't seem to be able to keep people from returning with new sn's.

How does that work? I know the mods here can do some "checking" when they suspect a new account is a sock but they are still far from perfect. I believe P'Duh has been banned here over a dozen times...

[LibraryLady]

You're right, we are entitled to our own opinions. Im also entitled to tell you that your claims are full of crap. The only thing that is ridiculous here is that someone (you) who was neither at the pentagon on 9/11/01 nor knows ANYONE that was, has never seen the building with their own eyes, is drawing conclusions about an attack on the worlds largest office building (forget that its the pentagon) based on a few pictures. Man Im glad we have you. If real investigations worked like that we would really save a lot of time. Not to mention a few trees. I know a little about investigations (we do one after EVERY fire, no matter how small) and never ONCE has the lead investigator come to the scene, take 3 pictures and leave thinking he/she had all the evidence they needed.

I think I might be in love. :heartbeat:

[Sabrina]

Back off lady; he's mine! ;)

[Travis]

Back off lady; he's mine! ;)

Don't you already have a queue of hopeful suitors in this forum?:D

[Sabrina]

Yes, but I need a few more. *giggles*

[jhunter1163]

I thought IP banning was almost a thing of the past now that there are so many people with dynamic IP's. I really don't know that much about it but lcf doesn't seem to be able to keep people from returning with new sn's.

How does that work? I know the mods here can do some "checking" when they suspect a new account is a sock but they are still far from perfect. I believe P'Duh has been banned here over a dozen times...

I think they got away from IP banning after the Oliver incident (getting most of Germany banned from LCF). They realized they were throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[Civilized Worm]

Holy crap that Terral guy is one of the most offensive CT morons I've seen in a while. :jaw-dropp

[defaultdotxbe]

I thought IP banning was almost a thing of the past now that there are so many people with dynamic IP's. I really don't know that much about it but lcf doesn't seem to be able to keep people from returning with new sn's.

How does that work? I know the mods here can do some "checking" when they suspect a new account is a sock but they are still far from perfect. I believe P'Duh has been banned here over a dozen times...
actually with more people using broadband than dialup fewer people have dynamic IPs that before

of course there are many ways around IP bans even if you are stuck behind a static IP

[PhantomWolf]

That Terral is one unwholesome piece of work. I see he's now claiming that the Firefighters were in on it. I gues we can add him to the list of those that blame the first responders. Still he's in bad company, Jason Bermas and Alex Jones....

[YCHTT]

Hi Folks!

I just wanted to say thank you for all the wonderful comments. It's refreshing to see a place like this exists.

Let me clear a few things up. I am a volunteer firefighter in PG county Maryland but not at Greenbelt (but I know a few of them). I volunteer at Laurel Rescue Squad in Laurel Md. I also did a few years with Cottage City VFC but left soon after it was combined with 2 other stations. I am not a career FF (yet) but I am in the process for PG, Baltimore County and Metro Wash Airport Authority. I spent the last 2 years recovering from surgery (thats where I got into 9-11 debunking..I had the time LOL) and will soon be starting a job with Maryland Express Care which runs a critical care unit out of the Univ of Md medical center as a paramedic. All in all I have been in the fire service for about 10 years (october is my 10th anniversary)

I tend to focus on the Pentagon because I know people that were there and I have access to them and documents from my department. But I also do general fire dept debunking as well.

Again thanks for all the comments. Its great to be here

Dale

[MarkyX]

Welcome to the forums YCTTH!
























lol, first

[T.A.M.]

doh...

welcome to the forum YCHTT!

Second

TAM:)

[TheRedWorm]

Welcome, my friend, the the party that never ends. Or starts, one of those two :D

[NYCEMT86]

Welcome to the forum YCHTT


Your knowledge will be welcomed and appreciated here.

[PhantomWolf]

Welcome YCHTT, I look forward to your posts, the ones I have seen seem pretty good so far. At least here we promise you won't get banned for disagreeing with us, only for not bribing Lisa with the appropirate chocolate cookies. ;)

[Horatius]

Damn YCHTT, I like the way you write!


You cant stop and start a firehose quickly without breaking lots of things like the fire pump, hose, hydrant etc. (See Water Hammer Here)
Plus its not a very efficient way to fight fire. What most likely happend is they were blanketing the fire with foam and moving the stream from window to window and that is how the "Non Flammable" Masonry got wet. I never said firefighters dont make a mess. We are actually kinda famous for it.



:D

[qarnos]

Welcome, YCHTT!! :)

You certainly do have a way with words! Good stuff.

[LashL]

YCHTT,

I'm pleased to be the fourth fifth sixth next in line to welcome you aboard.

:welcome4

[OldTigerCub]

YCHTT,
I'm a newbie here at jref myself, but I've been following this post from the beginning. I really admired the way you took apart Terral's false statements and accusations on the LC forum thread. It was a great display of logic versus innuendo, misstatements, cherry-picking facts and down-right lies.
Bravo!!!!
I am not much of a debunker myself, but rather consider myself a student of history, science and life in general, but I have come to hold many of the true logical thinkers in the debuking community in great esteem, especially those I have encountered here at jref and SLC.
Keep up the good work!:clap:

[qarnos]

And a welcome to OldTigerCub, too! :)

[bje]

YCHTT,

I'm pleased to be the fourth fifth sixth next in line to welcome you aboard.

:welcome4

Ditto, YCHTT. Welcome aboard.

[PhantomWolf]

YCHTT,

While here, I do have one little thing I was to point out. You stated on LCF that the Pentagon was built to hande a Nuke going off, I'd like to correct this cause it's wrong. The Pentagon was built in 1941-43, before even the US had a Nuke so it's original construction had nothing to do with Nukes. Rather it was built to handle the weight of the paper inside it, which is a lot. A bit OT here, but an interesting story. When the University I went too put in their new library it was supposted to be a three story building. However before they started the third story someone noticed that while the foundations were built to handle the weight of the building, they'd forgotten to factor in the weight of the books. Fully loaded the building could not handle the weight of three stories plus books, as a result it's only two and they had to build a separate libary for the sciences.

Back to the Pentagon. The side that was hit had been reinforced as part of the reto-fit (http://guardian.150m.com/pentagon/small/pentagon-retrofit.htm) so that it could withstand a truck bomb like the one that took down the front of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. As such the windows in the Pentagon are specially designed, several pane thick, laminated blast resistant windows that are vitually unbreakable. Even so the frames were weaken enough by the crash that they could be easily popped out after the impact. (http://m.wusa9.com/news.jsp?key=44672&rc=vs)

Anyway, that's the real reason the windows survived the impact. They were designed too do that, and did so remarkably well.

[Calcas]

Dale, glad you finally made it over. Near the top right check your "private messages."

That "Terral" nutjob over there has actually ratched it up a notch. He has this whole thesis now where many of the firefighters at the Pentagon weren't really firefighters but plants of some kind. Sad and pathetic all at once.
The Department of Defense and Donald Rumsfeld deliberately allowed the Pentagon fires to escalate out of control to simulate the damage of a crashed Boeing 757-200 Jetliner. Men dressed as firemen purposely wasted time and valuable firefighting resources to give appearances of fighting flames, while at the same time allowing the fire to move from the original E-D-C Ring Wedge One location into other parts of the Pentagon.



http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15882

[Hamradioguy]

Welcome YCHTT from a long time vollie in Vermont. I've tried a bit of "Firefighter 101" with some of the troofers who post here but for some reason they always seem to ignore my comments and questions to them. Guess we'll have to share some "war stories" sometime.

[PhantomWolf]

**Waits for the sts60, YCHTT, Hamradioguy Firefighting thread.**

:popcorn1

[LashL]

<snip>I'm a newbie here at jref myself...


OldTigerCub,

A hearty :welcome4 to you, too!

[LashL]

**Waits for the sts60, YCHTT, Hamradioguy Firefighting thread.**

:popcorn1

That might even be a sufficient catalyst to drag my beau into the forum. ;)

[YCHTT]

YCHTT,

While here, I do have one little thing I was to point out. You stated on LCF that the Pentagon was built to hande a Nuke going off, I'd like to correct this cause it's wrong.
Anyway, that's the real reason the windows survived the impact. They were designed too do that, and did so remarkably well.


How dare you! WHERE's YOUR PROOF!! haha just kidding:D :D

Thanks for that info. I knew it was reinforced somehow. The survivors noted that they could not get them open because of refit.

But hey, maybe they are capable of more. For years the soviets thought the little tented area in the Pentagon Courtyard was the secret entrance to the REAL Pentagon underground. It turned out to be a hotdog stand :D :D

[YCHTT]

Dale, glad you finally made it over. Near the top right check your "private messages."

That "Terral" nutjob over there has actually ratched it up a notch. He has this whole thesis now where many of the firefighters at the Pentagon weren't really firefighters but plants of some kind. Sad and pathetic all at once.


Yeah I saw that. I will respond. Im going to be a pain in his arse for a while. I have jury duty next week so I will have plenty of time. My last response took me 12 hours to write, because unlike the toofers I actually research stuff. Its not the best research in the world but then again its not hard to slap these people down. I just really hate it when they attack the firefighters, especially when they dont know what they are talking about. Its one thing if I or another firefighter is critical of the pentagon operation, but then we would not be making claims of "wasted foam" or "the fire was out already". we would ask different questions.

I just think its funny that I called him out on everything (my favorite was the one about the pentagon firefighters not being on record) and he has cooked up this Government agent firefighter thing just to piss me off.

I also love how every toofer out there focuses on the day of the attacks and the days after for all their arguments. just ask st60 about how f'ed up that day was for our departments, all the rumors floating around. it was crazy. I really liked that article about the seven minute fire. what a load of crap that was. But at least she tried to do some research from reputable sources.

[OldTigerCub]

How dare you! WHERE's YOUR PROOF!! haha just kidding:D :D

Thanks for that info. I knew it was reinforced somehow. The survivors noted that they could not get them open because of refit.

But hey, maybe they are capable of more. For years the soviets thought the little tented area in the Pentagon Courtyard was the secret entrance to the REAL Pentagon underground. It turned out to be a hotdog stand :D :D

I just had a flash-back to the movie "Spies Like Us"...could it be the Soviets got an advance release? Just asking questions...and realizing how stupid that statement sounds...:p

[Arus808]

welcome all newbies! thanks for coming over YCHTT. as you can see you were in a group of people with no sense of reality. Hope that you find the company here abit more refreshing

[YCHTT]

Welcome YCHTT from a long time vollie in Vermont. I've tried a bit of "Firefighter 101" with some of the troofers who post here but for some reason they always seem to ignore my comments and questions to them. Guess we'll have to share some "war stories" sometime.

Hey Hamradioguy,

I would love to swap stories with ya. As far as the toofers ignoring you its because they know you are right. They cant defend against your claims especially when they are backed up with facts. I mean just look at Terral. He is basing his knowlage of investigation off of what he learned watching CSI (THAT was the funniest thing I have ever read on there BTW) Not from books or actual classes.

BTW, I keep seeing this thing that the toofers post called a "Bump". can someone tell me what that is?

[quixotecoyote]

BTW, I keep seeing this thing that the toofers post called a "Bump". can someone tell me what that is?

Internet slang. When a thread is sliding down the message board because no one's posted on it in awhile, you can submit a content free post just to make the thread stay in the top part of the forum. It's like saying 'Look at me! I'm still here!'. The traditional no-content word is 'bump'.

[Drs_Res]

A bump is adding a post to a thread to move it up to the top of the page, or bring it from say page 3 to page one.

ETA: Beat to the punch by seconds I see.

[ref]

Welcome on board, YCHTT! :)

[Gravy]

Welcome to the forums, YCHTT and OldTigerCub!

I love the smell of a truther smackdown in the morning. Smells like...rationality.

[pomeroo]

Welcome to the forums, YCHTT and OldTigerCub!

I love the smell of a truther smackdown in the morning. Smells like...rationality.


Welcome to your new home away from home, YCHTT and OldTigerCub!

Wasn't it great debating firefighting with a guy who knows absolutely nothing about firefighting?

[leftysergeant]

We'll have a whole battalion here soon, at this rate.

I do see a lot of fake fire fighters showing up on the web these days. Something usually gives them away rather soon after their first posts. So I had to check out your posting at Loose Screws.

Then I noticed your slightly flippant treatment of some comments and a strange sense of humor.

Yeah, gotta be one of us.

Welcome aboard. Just try not to freak out the civilians.

[Dave Rogers]

My last response took me 12 hours to write, because unlike the toofers I actually research stuff.

These words bear repeating. Welcome aboard, YCHTT. I hope you'll like it here.

Dave

[PhantomWolf]

We'll have a whole battalion here soon, at this rate.

Well with Hamradioguy, sts60, NYCEMT86, and now YCHTT added, we certainly have enough for a company.

[Bell]

I feel saver allready.

[stateofgrace]

Welcome to YCHTT and OldTigerCub.

[qarnos]

Welcome to YCHTT and OldTigerCub.

*something clicks*

Man, I am slow. Are you back from Nigeria? :)


A congrats on your 1,999th post! :D

ETA: Man, I am really slow. Location: Lagos.

Well, good to see you back posting anyhow!

[LibraryLady]

:welcome3

You've had great advance press! And at least two forumesses have crushes on you already.






I'm not one of them. Nope. Not me.

[njslim]

Welcome YCHTT . I'm a FF in NJ, don't know much about operations at the
Pentagon as have concentrated on WTC (which I watch burn from NJ) .
Enjoyed your description of what went on that day along with smackdown
of the Truther creep. Currently at another truther site (ABOVE TOP SECRET)
been trying to beat some sense into these clowns. Now been fighting with
some idiots who are bringing up "There were only 2 small fires on 78th floor"
"Building couldn't have collapsed from fire" crap.

[bje]

Now Terral gets a warning from LCF Admin:

Terral,

I am upgrading my gentle guideline to a caution.

You are spewing endless lengthy and repetitive posts - I.E. spam.

You are being asked direct and honest questions by people without a proper response.

You have also refused to respond to my questions or address me personally.

If you continue to avoid dialogue and refuse to answer questions the next step is an official warning.

This is not a podium for you to preach - it is a two way street here.

Russell

[GlennB]

Now Terral gets a warning from LCF Admin:

Big welcome to YCHTT :) Punchy and educational stuff you are/were writing over there. Pearls before swine, though, in Terral's case.

I reckon Terral will now give Russel Pickering a mouthful and pretty soon end up banned.

I'm sure there must be a name for Terral's 'disorder'. That is, he just ignores every fact laid before him and seeks to drown out all opposition with endless huge and repetitive posts, usually with the same old photos. Narcissism/megalomania might be in the right area, or a high-functioning Autistic-spectrum disorder.

[Sabrina]

Welcome to all newbies! I was there myself recently. Hope you find yourselves welcomed and feted with all due pomp and circumstance!

YCHTT, I think I'm near you; I'm currently working in the intelligence community in DC (I actually work right across 395 from the Pentagon right now, but I'm moving to a different contract shortly and won't be here much longer). Maybe we'll see each other around sometime! *chuckles*

[sts60]

Gravy: Welcome to the forums, YCHTT and OldTigerCub!

Yeah, what he said!

YCHTT, I joined up (tick over here in Monkey County) a few months after 9/11. But, as mentioned elsewhere, I ride with a lot of career guys and gals, and quite a few of them worked the Pentagon as part of the USAR response. So I, too, take it rather personally when some ignoranus starts impugning FFs on whom I rely to pull my chestnuts out of the fire (literally) if that time ever comes.

ETA: "Monkey County" = slang for "Montgomery County" aka "The People's Republic of Montgomery"

[NYCEMT86]

Welcome YCHTT from a long time vollie in Vermont. I've tried a bit of "Firefighter 101" with some of the troofers who post here but for some reason they always seem to ignore my comments and questions to them. Guess we'll have to share some "war stories" sometime.

Same thing happens to me, I can respond with the NFPA and they just completely ignore the statement.



I started a thread on sharing "war stories" it can be found here

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=2975673#post2975673

[ElMondoHummus]

YCHTT,

Let me add to the chorus of Welcomes to the forum. And let me compliment you on refusing to give in to the obduracy of the uninformed; insisting on the truth - especially in a place like LCF where it's easy to just write posters off to their fantasies - is difficult, yet you stuck to it. Very commendable.

One small question: You sure it was a good idea to reveal your real name there? Don't get me wrong, you're not in any real physical danger, I'm just thinking that certain levels of anonymity helps protect a person from being accosted by internet haranguers in real life, that's all. I think about what happened to Rachel North and the abuse that uninformed zealots can inflict on a person, and I just shudder. That's part of the reason my username's so ridiculous; there's zero relation to my real name in it.

Anyway, moving away from that negative stuff, kudos again for refusing to give in to this new age superstition masquerading as a social movement; as I've said elsewhere, superstition is not an enlightenment value, and deliberate ignorance of truth, such as what Terrel exhibited in the thread you participated in, counts as such. It's ordinary folks doing what you did in that thread that helps keep such ignorance in check, if not for the ignorant person himself, then for the bystanders reading the exchange. Thanks again!

[bje]

Terral is still refusing to answer questions at LCF. His bio is here (http://www.ae911truth.org/profile.php?uid=999528).

[Calcas]

Terral is still refusing to answer questions at LCF. His bio is here (http://www.ae911truth.org/profile.php?uid=999528).

Oh boy, no wonder. He calls himself a General Contractor/Demolition Supervisor yet he thinks the steel would have had to "melt" for the towers to collapse.

From his "bio"...

"Typical building fires burn at around 800 degrees, but the red iron in WTC-7 requires 2800 degrees to begin melting. There is no way 'all' of the steel supports were severed by any fire in just a few hours, unless controlled demolition was carefully planned and executed by demolition specialists."

[Magenta]

Another newbie here.

I try to limit my exposure to the nonsense of the truth movement as it upsets my equanimity, but I did follow the link to the Loose Change forum. I’m gobsmacked by the arrogance and ignorance of people like Terral (I’m tempted to make a comparison with creationism and evolutionary theory, but I’m sure it’s been done already).

I’d like to add my thanks to YCHTT for his thoroughness and persistence—I learned a lot from his posts.

[Calcas]

Another newbie here.

I try to limit my exposure to the nonsense of the truth movement as it upsets my equanimity, but I did follow the link to the Loose Change forum. I’m gobsmacked by the arrogance and ignorance of people like Terral (I’m tempted to make a comparison with creationism and evolutionary theory, but I’m sure it’s been done already).

I’d like to add my thanks to YCHTT for his thoroughness and persistence—I learned a lot from his posts.

Welcome aboard Magenta.

Prepare to be gobsmacked quite a bit more by some of the "twoofers." Check out the "Stundies" thread for noteworthy nominations.

[YCHTT]

We'll have a whole battalion here soon, at this rate.

I do see a lot of fake fire fighters showing up on the web these days. Something usually gives them away rather soon after their first posts. So I had to check out your posting at Loose Screws.

Then I noticed your slightly flippant treatment of some comments and a strange sense of humor.

Yeah, gotta be one of us.

Welcome aboard. Just try not to freak out the civilians.

Hahahaha! aint that the truth!

Thanks for all the welcomes. I feel the love :)

[YCHTT]

Well with Hamradioguy, sts60, NYCEMT86, and now YCHTT added, we certainly have enough for a company.


We definately got minimum staffing...can I ride the seat??

[YCHTT]

Welcome YCHTT . I'm a FF in NJ, don't know much about operations at the
Pentagon as have concentrated on WTC (which I watch burn from NJ) .
Enjoyed your description of what went on that day along with smackdown
of the Truther creep. Currently at another truther site (ABOVE TOP SECRET)
been trying to beat some sense into these clowns. Now been fighting with
some idiots who are bringing up "There were only 2 small fires on 78th floor"
"Building couldn't have collapsed from fire" crap.

Thanks bro.

I assume they are talking about the Fire Marshalls (name escapes me) when he was talking to Ladder 15. They keep taking things out of context. I dont recall him saying there were 2 small fires but he did sat 2 isolated pockets of fire, both may have very well been true. But the problem is that anyone who has ever been in a building while its on fire knows you can barely see The end of your mask, how can you see what is going on in a building that has as much floor space as the WTC? Never mind seeing what is above or below you.
Now that I think about it, they give firefighters too much credit in some respects (expect us to have xray vision, and put huge fires out with an 1" 3/4 hoseline) and not enough in others.

In other news, I talked to Dave Statter today as you may have seen in my post on LC. Dave is also a PGFD volunteer and he said he will be sending me his account of what happend that day at the pentagon. I will post when I get it.

[YCHTT]

Welcome to all newbies! I was there myself recently. Hope you find yourselves welcomed and feted with all due pomp and circumstance!

YCHTT, I think I'm near you; I'm currently working in the intelligence community in DC (I actually work right across 395 from the Pentagon right now, but I'm moving to a different contract shortly and won't be here much longer). Maybe we'll see each other around sometime! *chuckles*

Yeah, Im on the other side of the river :) I actually live in Columbia, MD which is smack dab in the middle between DC and Baltimore. Where are ya moving too?

[PhantomWolf]

Well that's 6 now, I guess if there's a fire on the JREF Fourms we know who to call to put it out. ;)

[Sabrina]

YCHTT-DIA is where my next contract will be, although I'm not positive I'll be at the DIAC versus one of the other sites. My company has a five-year strong contract with DIA that's got about six components, and not all of them are on the main site.

Magenta-Welcome to the forum!

[PhantomWolf]

DIA is where my next contract will be

DIA only one letter from CIA, Inside Job!!!!11!!!11!!!!!1 ;P

[YCHTT]

Gravy: Welcome to the forums, YCHTT and OldTigerCub!

Yeah, what he said!

YCHTT, I joined up (tick over here in Monkey County) a few months after 9/11. But, as mentioned elsewhere, I ride with a lot of career guys and gals, and quite a few of them worked the Pentagon as part of the USAR response. So I, too, take it rather personally when some ignoranus starts impugning FFs on whom I rely to pull my chestnuts out of the fire (literally) if that time ever comes.

ETA: "Monkey County" = slang for "Montgomery County" aka "The People's Republic of Montgomery"

Thanks Bro.

What station you at? I know a FEW MoCo peeps. Know anyone from Weaton Rescue? (aka no beatin Weaton LOL)

Yeah it pisses me off too. I feel I am as close as someone can be to the pentagon response as one can be without actually being there. I actually really debated just driving to the pentagon but I knew I would get in trouble (Ut oh a firefighter being professional and following orders??? Terral would crap a kidney!) and I still needed my gear so I went to the station. Plus we have one of the 3 Water/Dive Rescue teams in the county and for a while we thought they might call for it. Did anyone listen to the Recall audio I posted on LC? It still gives me chills listening to it. The fourm wont let me post a URL but just go here and click on the Broadcast link at the bottom of the paragraph. w w w.laurelvfd.org/sept11_rpt.html

I really dont mind that they are misinformed. What I do mind is that these people take comments out of contexts from people that know nothing about the subject and all of a sudden its TRUTH? and then when someone like us puts our two cents in we are either "strawmen" or paid off. It urks the crap outta me.

[NobbyNobbs]

A bit OT here, but an interesting story. When the University I went too put in their new library it was supposted to be a three story building. However before they started the third story someone noticed that while the foundations were built to handle the weight of the building, they'd forgotten to factor in the weight of the books. Fully loaded the building could not handle the weight of three stories plus books, as a result it's only two and they had to build a separate libary for the sciences.



/derail/
Sorry to burst your bubble, Phantom, but you may have been duped (http://www.snopes.com/college/halls/sinking.asp).

/end derail/

[Myriad]

Hi YCHTT,

I kind of pre-welcomed you earlier in the thread before you arrived, but now that you're actually here, welcome again and thank you for sharing your experiences and expertise.

Are determination and patience things you learn on the job, or does the job attract people with those qualities? In any case, you'll find those qualities are extremely useful (if not outright essential) here -- though not as much so as at Truther forums.

Respectfully,
Myriad

[defaultdotxbe]

/derail/
Sorry to burst your bubble, Phantom, but you may have been duped (http://www.snopes.com/college/halls/sinking.asp).

/end derail/
its possible his story is true, but the concern resulted from the urban legend

[boloboffin]

Terral was at DU briefly. What a piece of work. I'll add my welcome to the chorus, YCHTT.

[LashL]

Terral was at DU briefly. What a piece of work. I'll add my welcome to the chorus, YCHTT.

Oh, I read that to mean that he has since been tombstoned at DU; is that the case?

[njslim]

YCHTT:
I assume they are talking about the Fire Marshalls (name escapes me) when he was talking to Ladder 15. They keep taking things out of context

Battalion Chief Orio J Palmer, FM Ronald Bucca - remarkable story. Bucca
ran up all 78 floors to the skylobby. Palmer had found only elevator still
operable and took it to 40th floor and ran rest of way.

On 9/11 was at work at BAYWAY oil refinery in Linden NJ - people on floors
above me watched second plane impact building. Let us out early - our
chief put us on standby in case needed (live about dozen miles west of NYC)
Also were covering city of Paterson who had full shift at World Financial '
Center fighting the fires. Was listening to radio from scene - heard calls
to pull back from WTC 7 because of collapse hazard.

[YCHTT]

Thanks Myriad and Bolo,


I think Terral has been suspended/banned. Score one for the real TRUTH!!!!

[PhantomWolf]

/derail/
Sorry to burst your bubble, Phantom, but you may have been duped (http://www.snopes.com/college/halls/sinking.asp).

/end derail/

Hmm, interesting. Still was a bit hard to check snopes back then (it was very early 90's.) Perhaps it's a case of believing too much our physics proffessors tell us.....

[leftysergeant]

Hi YCHTT,
Are determination and patience things you learn on the job, or does the job attract people with those qualities? In any case, you'll find those qualities are extremely useful (if not outright essential) here -- though not as much so as at Truther forums.

To some extent, it's a search for inner truths.

People kept asking me while I was in the Army why I didn't go Airborn. I always shrugged it off with a suggestion that that was also how some peple tested themselves, and that they needed that validation.

But everything I needed to prove to or about myself, I feel I proved the second time I took a charged foam line into 5000 gallons of burning JP-4 just for drill.

(It helps, too, if you are a little bit strange.)

[Dr Harry Rein]

:welcome3

You've had great advance press! And at least two forumesses have crushes on you already.






I'm not one of them. Nope. Not me.

Welcome, YCHTT...

And how come the ladies always like the firefighters?

[Magenta]

And how come the ladies always like the firefighters?

Ahem…

firefighter-calendar.fotopic.net/p18533514.html

[leftysergeant]

The average man is led to do some bizarre things under the influence of excessive testosterone. They do extreme stuff to show their masculinity. Sometimes it gets them hurt.

Fire fighters use it up in acts of compassion.

We also know who and what we are.

Guess we had better if we are there to rush into places that scare other people to death.

It also matters when trying to relate to other people if you have some empathy with others.

And there's the sense of humor. Can't be a fire fighter without it. You'll go nuts.

[Arus808]

For Magenta
http://firefighter-calendar.fotopic.net/p18533514.html

Even more for us ladies:
http://www.firefighterscalendar.org/
http://www.firefighterscalendar.com/
http://www.firefightercalendar.com/
http://www.fundraisingcalendar.com/

Support the FDNY ladies:
http://www.nyfirestore.com/calendars.html :clap::wink:

http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/6379/jultl6.jpg

Can anyone say yummy?




And not to leave the guys out:
http://www.americasfemalefirefighters.com/

[Hokulele]

Can anyone say yummy?


Yummy!

[Rolfe]

Huh. Our local fire brigade was offering to wash cars for a donation to funds last Saturday. OK, the car came out clean, but one of the washers was a woman and the other was a seven-year-old boy.

Ever been had?

Rolfe.

[JimBenArm]

Welcome, YCHTT...

And how come the ladies always like the firefighters?
Yeah, my daughter has a serious thing for them.

[buka001]

Welcome YCHTT. Read your posts on lcf, and man you give it to them good!!

I also joined lcf, but got banned after 1 post. Rejoined under another nickname.

Just read through our dear friend mr Terral's bio. I find it interisting that he designed and built a commercial building at 22. That must have been one small building. At 22? You normally graduate at that age, with almost no real design and construction experience. Just kind of raises the eyebrows. Be interisting to find out more about his career history.

Just to add
I see he doesn't have a degree. Thats interesting. How can someone without a degree design a commercial building?

[ellindsey]

Just read through our dear friend mr Terral's bio. I find it interisting that he designed and built a commercial building at 22. That must have been one small building.

Probably something along these lines.

http://www.danaroc.com/blog/wp-content/themes/danaroc/uploads/Lemonade.jpg

[Sabrina]

YUMMY!!!! :drool:

Errr... I'll just be taking those pics now... *snatches them and runs*

[peteweaver]

Welcome YHCTT. How you remained patient with Terral was beyond me, but great debunking there.

[NobbyNobbs]

Huh. Our local fire brigade was offering to wash cars for a donation to funds last Saturday. OK, the car came out clean, but one of the washers was a woman and the other was a seven-year-old boy.

Ever been had?

Rolfe.

I don't know about the boy, but are you suggesting that the woman couldn't have been a firefighter?

And it's also quite possible that the boy was the recipient of one of those Make-A-Wish things, or something similar.

[Hokulele]

I don't know about the boy, but are you suggesting that the woman couldn't have been a firefighter?

And it's also quite possible that the boy was the recipient of one of those Make-A-Wish things, or something similar.


I could be wrong, but I believe that Rolfe was hoping one of the yummy types, as seen in the calendar, would be washing her car. Hence the disappointment.

[YCHTT]

Welcome YHCTT. How you remained patient with Terral was beyond me, but great debunking there.

I ride a firetruck in the ghetto. I have a high tollerance for ingnorance and BS. :D:D

BTW...Can someone tell my why I cannot post my photo in my profile? all I get is a blank screen

[YCHTT]

Not all FFs look like that. I mean I am pretty cute (so Im told) but I havent had a six pack since 3rd grade...unless you count saturday night LOL

[Horatius]

BTW...Can someone tell my why I cannot post my photo in my profile? all I get is a blank screen


I don't know the answer, but if you post the same question over here:


http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=-1&f=16


you'll likely get a better answer than mine :)

[Arus808]

you need at least 50 posts to get an avatar.

[Sabrina]

But you can upload a picture to your profile, I thought, right away. Is that wrong?

[NYCEMT86]

I ride a firetruck in the ghetto. I have a high tollerance for ingnorance and BS. :D:D

I have heard the horror stories about Purely Gangsta County from t2, at least you got a set of irons in case you need to set someone straight, it clearly beats my [rule10]-behave stick that I carry.

[YCHTT]

I have heard the horror stories about Purely Gangsta County from t2, at least you got a set of irons in case you need to set someone straight, it clearly beats my [rule10]-behave stick that I carry.

Just yesterday a citizen threatened to beat the crap out of 2 of our members yesterday on an ambulance call, with armed security right there. Of course the security didnt do anything about it.

Aparently the family was mad because the crew asked the patient (that was lying on the ground)that if they helped her up could she walk with assistance the 3 feet to the stretcher and sit down. I think the family wanted us to pick her up instead. The family even came to the station twice. We had to call the cops. Not because they scared us, they got annoying :D

[Unsecured Coins]

is that pronounced EEECHEET or EYECHET?

Welcome... I'm Coins. I make stupid movies. I've been called the bastard son of Hannibal Lecter and Murdoch from the A Team.

[HyJinX]

is that pronounced EEECHEET or EYECHET?

Welcome... I'm Coins. I make stupid movies. I've been called the bastard son of Hannibal Lecter and Murdoch from the A Team.

...and he makes one hell of a mint julep.

[Unsecured Coins]

yessir

[LibraryLady]

Yeah, Im on the other side of the river :) I actually live in Columbia, MD which is smack dab in the middle between DC and Baltimore. Where are ya moving too?

I live in Owings Mills. Occasionally there's a get together. Check the Amazing Meetings forums for "Mid-Atlanteans!"

ETA: I don't automatically like all firefighters. Just the incredibly brave ones who are willing to run into burning buildings and save my life.

Oh, wait....

[Kryptos]

I live in Owings Mills. Occasionally there's a get together. Check the Amazing Meetings forums for "Mid-Atlanteans!"

ETA: I don't automatically like all firefighters. Just the incredibly brave ones who are willing to run into burning buildings and save my life.

Oh, wait....

All the local people, you can come to Lafayette Park on Saturday afternoons. I haven't gone yet, but may be truthers there. Don't know how many and if it's worth going. Though, went to see them at an anti-war protest in January, and it was fun.

[njslim]

I have heard the horror stories about Purely Gangsta County from t2, at least you got a set of irons in case you need to set someone straight, it clearly beats my [rule10]-behave stick that I carry.


We have similar groups of knuckleheads in nearby city of Paterson (where they just
arrested few more local pols - its become a yearly ritual to run a corruption sting,
every year some of them get stung by FBI) Think ambulance is bus service they can
call to ferry them around city. Should hear some of the stories the Brothers tell down there. Last time ran mutual aid had someone park in front of hydrant we were going to
use. Of course simply ran 5" hose right over hood and front end of the car.....

[Magenta]

For Magenta


Thanks Arus808!



Not all FFs look like that. I mean I am pretty cute (so Im told) but I havent had a six pack since 3rd grade...unless you count saturday night LOL


From memory, the older guys in the QFRS calendars are pretty fit-looking as well, but I may have to do more research. :D

[PhantomWolf]

I ride a firetruck in the ghetto. I have a high tollerance for ingnorance and BS. :D:D

As well as locating replacement hoses?