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fredcarr
15th September 2007, 03:24 PM
Saw this book in Waldenbboks the other day. I didn't think it would actually be written by someone who had received a lobotomy yet that is exactly what it is.

Howard Dully received a lobotomy at the age of 12 and decades later researched what occured to him and wrote a book.

There are a couple of great interviews on NPR if one cares for that sort of thing. Hard to listen to it without tears.

I found it very interesting how individuals were able to disassociate themselves from the horrors of the act. Dr. Walter Freeman's son's answers were particularly chilling.

Curious if anyone else has read the book and what their take is on it. It doesn't make for pleasant "around the water cooler" conversation, needless to say.

Fred

PS "Wasn't sure which area to post this in."

Mercutio
17th September 2007, 08:15 PM
I agree about the NPR stories. I have one downloaded just in case they ever delete it--it is so powerful and moving I did not want to lose it. Incredible story, fascinating history.

Freeman's book "Psychosurgery" is a chilling read. I have quoted from it in some of my psych classes; one surgery, termed a success, was accompanied by samples of writing before and after the operation, and a transcript of the conversation of the operation itself. It was as if the man had been transformed from Jack Kerouac into Fred Rogers, and at the time of the cut, he said "oops, I felt something there." Wow.

ETA: NPR Link. (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5014080)

spoiler hides a pic of Dully while undergoing the lobotomy.
http://media.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2005/nov/lobotomy/dully_icepick450.jpg

-Fran-
18th September 2007, 05:34 AM
I agree about the NPR stories. I have one downloaded just in case they ever delete it--it is so powerful and moving I did not want to lose it. Incredible story, fascinating history.

Freeman's book "Psychosurgery" is a chilling read. I have quoted from it in some of my psych classes; one surgery, termed a success, was accompanied by samples of writing before and after the operation, and a transcript of the conversation of the operation itself. It was as if the man had been transformed from Jack Kerouac into Fred Rogers, and at the time of the cut, he said "oops, I felt something there." Wow.

ETA: NPR Link. (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5014080)

spoiler hides a pic of Dully while undergoing the lobotomy.
http://media.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2005/nov/lobotomy/dully_icepick450.jpg

I've read about this before, and interesting as it is... it's so incredibly sad and horrible *shivers*

calebprime
20th September 2007, 09:36 AM
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Great and Desperate Cures is an excellent book, if you can stomach it.


Two observations: I have a son about that age--and so that alone makes me feel way too squeamish to check this out further--I just can't take it. My job is to protect my son, period.

My father got his medical degree at the height of this madness, and saw Freeman do it. My father is a maverick and a bundle of contradictions. He's not a practicing doctor. But he has a touching faith in doctors and the medical profession to this day--and refuses to criticize the people who encouraged lobotomies. I attribute this to the effect of guild solidarity--my father will not criticize a fellow doctor.

I go through periods where I just don't have the emotional calluses to get into a story like this--otherwise I'd check it out.

Kilgore Trout
20th September 2007, 12:32 PM
I read the article on NPR and it makes me even more appreciative of the development of antipsychotic drugs to treat mental illness.

DRBUZZ0
21st September 2007, 05:04 PM
I had wondered somewhat about what a lobotomy does to someone. Clearly it is not like it is portrayed in the movies, that it turns someone into a drooling semi-conscious shell which cannot talk and stares into the distance.

People who have had lobotomies can talk, walk, even drive around and interact with others. However, they definitely loose some emotional abilities and concentration and other abilities.

If the guy who wrote this book was 12 when it happened then he might be considered comparatively "lucky"... as opposed to those who had the procedure in adulthood. Although by 12 the brain is fully functional, it's still not entirely complete in its layout and development of neural connections. The brain is remarkably able to adapt to damage, especially in the young.

I think there's a good chance that the author was able to fair better than others lending to his young age. With decent social stimulation, his brain may have been able to compensate... at least in part. Occupational therapy may have been able to help too, but I doubt he got any of that afterward...

fredcarr
22nd September 2007, 10:09 PM
Clearly it is not like it is portrayed in the movies, that it turns someone into a drooling semi-conscious shell which cannot talk and stares into the distance.


Actually it does. He covers this in the book.

Fred

Kilgore Trout
23rd September 2007, 12:25 PM
Actually it does. He covers this in the book.

Fred

In some patients, however not all.

"There were some very unpleasant results, very tragic results and some excellent results and a lot in between," says Dr. Elliot Valenstein (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5014080), who wrote Great and Desperate Cures, a book about the history of lobotomies.

What do you think, Fred? Is this an example of the horrors of psychiatry in general and how it must be eliminated? Or a tragic procedure that gratefully has been replaced with medication and other psychiatric techniques?

I might be wrong about this, but I can't help but be a little curious since you brought this up, introduced as a chance encounter with the material in Waldenbooks.

DRBUZZ0
23rd September 2007, 01:10 PM
What do you think, Fred? Is this an example of the horrors of psychiatry in general and how it must be eliminated? Or a tragic procedure that gratefully has been replaced with medication and other psychiatric techniques?

I might be wrong about this, but I can't help but be a little curious since you brought this up, introduced as a chance encounter with the material in Waldenbooks.

The fact that the lobotomy existed as a procedure is not what is so disturbing. It's understandable to think that something as extreme as a lobotomy might be given to patients who were so seriously mentally ill and unstable that they could not live any semblance of a safe or stable life, and for whom all other options had been exhausted.

That's not so much the issue as the fact that it was not used entirely as a "Last resort" or even reserved for the severely insane, but quickly became recomended by Freeman and a few others as the cure for depression, general anxiety, headaches, OCD, social anxiety, obsessiveness etc etc. He seemed to be so absolutely devoted to the idea that the frontal lobes are the root of all problems and getting rid of them is the solution, one wonders why he didn't have one himself!

The use of the procedure on "rebellious" youths or those like Ethyl Kennedy, who was apparently "boy crazy" and a bit of a drama queen is bloodchilling. As is the story told of the "Boy who had a strong interest in the ideom of 'be-bop' music."

It's worth noting also that the "icepick method" composed less than 20% of lobotomies during their time. Freeman promoted it strongly but it's pretty obvious that the technique is very crude and causes all kinds problems from destroying the wrong structures to swelling, internal bleeding and so on.

The normal procedure, although having the same somewhat gruesome effects in general, was more precice and targeted at cutting connector tissue while minimizing internal trauma and damage to other structures.

I ordered the book on amazon, but having found out more about this, I've done some readin on this whole thing. It seems freeman was very strongly opposed by a large number of neurologists and had the AMA almost censure him.

The fact that he was able to get away with this for so long may have to do with both his skill at self-promotion, his previous high regard and a handful of "successful" cases and endorsements he had. But by the 1960's, he was far out of the mainstream. The procedure was dying and when psycosurgury was preformed, it was understood to be something that should be minimized in its damages.


Today, psycosurgury still exists, but it's exceedingly rare and primarily reserved for those who have a detectable physical defect in the brain. The other time this sort of thing might be used is for life-threatening epilepsy.

In some cases, an overstimulated or understimulated area of the brain or a benign tumor can be the cited as the direct cause of painful and otherwise uncontrollable physical and emotional effects. Again this is a last resort. The preferred method of dealing with this is either a "Gamma knife" which does not actually open the skull or a cathader-based means of getting to the area. In some cases, electro-stimulation by modulated low-voltage has shown promise.

But the full frontal lobotomy is exceedingly rare (ecliptics, or cases of severe head trauma where that area of the brain has already been mostly destroyed)

In any case, it would always be followed by occupational and neurological therapies, designed to help the patient recover as much function and retrain their brain as possible.

And the eyesocket method died a long time ago...

Kilgore Trout
23rd September 2007, 01:49 PM
I'm not sure why all that seems to be addressed to me; my questions were for Fred. I can't say I expect an answer, however. My signature alone probably garnered my presence on his ignore list.

I do appreciate more information, however.