Humans Are Not Of This Earth

[tomgv15]

I just got home from work after a frustrating discussion with one of my favorite people there. I'll call him Joe. he's in his 50's and grew up in Roswell NM, one of the few African Americans in the area. Today he started talking about how humans are not part of this earth. According to Joe the human race is an experiment started by an alien race. Racial differences exist due to the variety of colonies started by this alien race. he asked me why Africans are "black" and Asians "yellow". I admitted that I did not know. I can research the idea, but can't give a good answer off the top of my head.
From there Joe made his most adament statement that humans do not adapt to their environment like other animals. I disagreed, saying that we adapt the best and are able to live throughout the globe. Being able to build tools, and cloth ourselves doesn't count. Joe dismissed my mentions of Lucy and our sharing 98% of genetic code with chimpanzees. "Theories. Everybody has theories. The Bible is a human construct. Does it talk about dinosaurs?" Joe had other people urging him on. Overwhelmed by this gobbledy gook I shut up, finished and left.

I don't think my friendship with Joe is a jeopardy, we'll probably not talk about it again in the future.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

<< SNIP >>
I don't think my friendship with Joe is a jeopardy, we'll probably not talk about it again in the future.

That's probably a good idea. :D

What else do you want anyone to say? If annything? :confused:

[Ichneumonwasp]

So that's why Earthgirls are easy!

[tomgv15]

What bugs me is my inability to answer each of Joe's unsupported statements with facts. Even if I could adequately describe the migration of the human race throughout the globe along with developments of human evolution and racial differentiation (usage?) in 60 seconds I'd just be hit with another non sequitor.

[apathetic medic]

When you are presented with erroneous multiple rapid fire statements in an uncontrolled debate/conversation, your only viable option is to try to record the statements and rebut them later.

It is likely a lengthy process and is best presented in written form. Give your rebuttals not only to the woo-woo'er but to others who were listening to the original conversation.

[Mercutio]

What does he claim in the way of positive evidence for his view?

[tomgv15]

Sounds good. I'll go with information sharing. With this group referencing the Discovery Channel works better than quoting Sagan, Randi, Dawkins, etc. One of the people in the group believes David Blaine has super human powers. This man also wears a special eye patch due to an incident where his eyelid was bitten off during a drug deal gone bad. At least, that's the story. My work place also has people who wear copper and magnets as health aids. I usually manage to hold my tongue, but sometimes I can't help myself. When Susan went around last spring loudly proclaiming that Hollywood was going too far and they were all evil because she heard that Bart was going the full monty in the (then) upcoming Simpsons movie I sniped back at until she left. Susan also once complained to me about how badly the Postal Service manhandled a parcel she sent to her daughter."I perfected wrapped three hardcover Left Behind novels and a glass bottle of salad dressing. They broke it and ruined the books!" ungh

[tomgv15]

Mercutio - Joe doesn't have any evidence. When I asked he said he'd been studying it for a long time. I work in a kitchen and conversations tend to be disjointed.

[fuelair]

I just got home from work after a frustrating discussion with one of my favorite people there. I'll call him Joe. he's in his 50's and grew up in Roswell NM, one of the few African Americans in the area. Today he started talking about how humans are not part of this earth. According to Joe the human race is an experiment started by an alien race. Racial differences exist due to the variety of colonies started by this alien race. he asked me why Africans are "black" and Asians "yellow". I admitted that I did not know. I can research the idea, but can't give a good answer off the top of my head.
From there Joe made his most adament statement that humans do not adapt to their environment like other animals. I disagreed, saying that we adapt the best and are able to live throughout the globe. Being able to build tools, and cloth ourselves doesn't count. Joe dismissed my mentions of Lucy and our sharing 98% of genetic code with chimpanzees. "Theories. Everybody has theories. The Bible is a human construct. Does it talk about dinosaurs?" Joe had other people urging him on. Overwhelmed by this gobbledy gook I shut up, finished and left.

I don't think my friendship with Joe is a jeopardy, we'll probably not talk about it again in the future.http://anthro.palomar.edu/adapt/adapt_4.htm
Short version: skin color is a result of the body and the sun working together. You need sunlight to produce Vitamin D, but sunlight breaks down folate - so your body produces (over a long time enough melanin that folate is not destroyed but little enough that vitamin D can be produced. That amount of melanin is highest near the equator (darkest skins) and least at the poles (lightest skins). The basic details were worked out by about 1998 or 9. Research on itty-bitty details still goes on!.

None of this is likely to affect a woo, unfortunately.

[tomgv15]

At one point Joe did say that Africans are black because of the sun doesn't make sense. All I could come up with was Caucasions are white due to the lack of sun in the north. Fuelair, your scientific explanation is great! Thank you. The problem with scientific explanations is the attention span factor. Too many unfamiliar words and the listener will revert to the smile and nod, then change the subject. Detailed conversations at my work place are highly unlikely.

[UnrepentantSinner]

From there Joe made his most adament statement that humans do not adapt to their environment like other animals. I disagreed, saying that we adapt the best and are able to live throughout the globe. Being able to build tools, and cloth ourselves doesn't count.

I guess Joe isn't aware that animals use tools and such to adapt their environments as well. Program description from the History Channel website.
Modern Marvels: Nature's Engineers 2.
Think man is unique within the animal kingdom? You might not after this hour that features an amazing collection of earth's non-human inhabitants that use tools, build intricate structures, create traps to capture prey, and perform complex procedures, including farming. From Egyptian vultures utilizing stones to crack open hard-shelled ostrich eggs to chimpanzees using a "tool kit" to extract termites from their nests, we learn that our ability to create tools is not exclusive. Other mammals create subterranean structures, including those prodigious diggers Prairie Dogs, and many animals and insects make devices to augment hunting, such as the Ogre-faced Spider that spins a small web to throw down on unsuspecting passersby. And we're not the only ones to work as a unified, multi-skilled force. Aphid-Raising Ants protect and care for herds of plant juice-sucking aphids that they "milk".

[UnrepentantSinner]

At one point Joe did say that Africans are black because of the sun doesn't make sense. All I could come up with was Caucasions are white due to the lack of sun in the north.

I would hope that Joe had at least heard of melanin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin) and try to correct him that Native Americans aren't "red" nor are Asians "yellow". They are shades of brown. Blacks have the most expression of melanin, Asians and Native Americans less so, Northern Europeans can have almost none.

Melanin also appears in all animals and in fact, white melanocyites have a similarity to those in golden Zebrafish. This page discusses that and had some great information for the layman on how the races developed.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/news/060201_zebrafish

[tomgv15]

When I said that humans and chimpanzees share 98% of genetic material Joe dismissed that by snorting out a laugh and turned away. The belief that humans are unique from the the rest of the animal kingdom to the point where we are not even of the animal kingdom can be appealing. The funny thing about Joe is that he does not believe in the typical Christian woo at all.

As a story idea I still like A.C. Clarke's 2001 the most with alieans directly influencing human development. In Clarke's first treatment of the story he had an individual live near a group of early humans steering them in the "right" direction. Bowman actually meets our benefactor after going through the star gate.

[thaiboxerken]

When I encounter someone immune to facts as this, I go along with them. I agree, and I inject my own "facts" to support his "theory" in such a way that it makes his claim look even more dumb that it is. Next time you talk to Joe, make a mention of Xenu and Thetans and other garbage from Xenu.net . Heck, then start to inject some stuff from the Hitchiker's Guide the the universe.

The goal is to make him feel stupid because he is.

[tomgv15]

Part of my frustration with today's discusion is that I don't want to make Joe feel he's stupid. He's one of the brighter people I work with. We get along and I value that.

[thaiboxerken]

Well, just make him feel stupid about that particular subject.

[UnrepentantSinner]

The goal is to make him feel stupid because he is.

You must be an absolute delight in person. :rolleyes:

[Zep]

Ask Joe if he would like to explain his ideas and justify them to some high school science students, in detail. See if this is just a gee-up on you first...

[Hindmost]

Let him know where his ancestors come from...he can see people from africa that have all the characteristics of the population of the world and how the dna traces back to there. The following link show how humans trace back to africa and how you can find your distant ancestors.

https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html

Of course, few realize the amount of energy required to get from one star to the next....so the chances of aliens visiting here are just silly.

And finally, a theory is the best description of what occurs in the physical world...not just some random guess.

glenn

[tomgv15]

All good ideas. My best bet is to talk with him alone, away from work. The alien issue is a tough one because of Joe's Roswell connection. He made a point of going to their annual festival this year. On Halloween he brings out a 3 foot tall alien figure he built years ago. When it comes to the bottom line Joe is more of an Oakland Raider's fan. Before we got into the 'humans are an alien experiment' we were groovin' to my Parliament's greatest hits cd and Joe talking about Funkadelic's line "Free your ass and your mind will follow."

[Zep]

Joe sounds like he should not bogart that joint so much... ;)

[OnlyTellsTruths]

Short version: skin color is a result of the body and the sun working together. You need sunlight to produce Vitamin D, but sunlight breaks down folate - so your body produces (over a long time enough melanin that folate is not destroyed but little enough that vitamin D can be produced. That amount of melanin is highest near the equator (darkest skins) and least at the poles (lightest skins). The basic details were worked out by about 1998 or 9. Research on itty-bitty details still goes on!.

None of this is likely to affect a woo, unfortunately.

That may be the main driving force, but don't forget selective breeding (display your mating colors! ewwww) and possibly a small percentage of camouflage and even intimidation.

There's also reason to include hair (fur!) and eye color into such a discussion.

[Stitch]

What bugs me is my inability to answer each of Joe's unsupported statements with facts.

You don't have to, make him substantiate his own statements.

[Bikewer]

One might wonder why all life on Earth is based on the DNA molecule, and that the DNA in humans is identical chemically to the rest of life on Earth.

If we came from elsewhere, why the identical DNA? Why would we share so much of our specific DNA structure (97% or so) with our closest relatives, the great apes?
Wouldn't we be "different" in some way (most ways, in all likelyhood) if we were evolved or constructed on some alien world?

Why would the aliens bother? Bored that week?

"What say, Znarfug? Let's put together some semi-intelligent beings, plant 'em on yonder planet, and sit back to watch the fun!"