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View Full Version : Taking truther claims to their logical conclusions


CHF
17th September 2007, 07:34 AM
I thought I'd take the opportunity to do what truthers refuse to do and consider the obvious implications of some of their most common talking-points.

Truthers are great at repeating slogans over and over again yet they've apparently given absolutely no consideration to where these claims actually lead. I hope that it will help some of them to WAKE UP if they see what happens when one actually asks the obvious questions.

For example...

Molten steel – Assume for a second that the metal in question was actually steel, as opposed to another metal with a lower melting point. What caused it? "Thermite!" is their answer. But thermite cools off quickly, as the recent "truth burn" fiasco demonstrated. So therefore...

The government decided to use not only enough thermite to cut the WTC support beams (sideways, no less!) but enough to keep steel molten for weeks on end!

Why would they feel the need to do this? How much thermite would this require? Is it a realistic amount? Does this scenario make any sense at all? If not, perhaps its time to re-evaluate the premise of "molten steel."

Pulverized concrete – According to truthers, the collapsing masses couldn’t do it so therefore bombs somehow did.

Therefore...the government not only used enough bombs to blast the support beams but enough to blast tens of thousands of tons of concrete into dust!

What the hell for? Why use so much more than needed? How many bombs would this require? If the answer is absurd (and it certainly is) then it's once again time to re-examine the original premise.

Pull it – I'm amazed that this claim is still so popular in truther circles. Consider its obvious implications:

- Silverstein admits to a demolition during a TV interview.
- He doesn’t immediately retract his incriminating remark or pressure the network into not airing it.
- Silverstein and the plotters decided to blow up WTC7 (what for?) seven hours after the last tower fell (why not at 10:30am with a massive dust-cloud smokescreen?)
- He give his "demolition order" to a fire chief (thus dragging the FDNY into the plot)
- He gets FDNY fire chief Daniel Nigro to cover things up for him by stating that he gave the order to pull back.

Yet amazingly, truthers seem surprised when told these things and strongly deny the FDNY involvement that their theory clearly calls for.

A missile hit the Pentagon – Again, a whole lot of obvious implications.

- The government decided to switch a 757 with a missile when they had a 757 to get rid of anyway
- Lampposts were knocked down, suggesting either a missile with the wingspan of a 757 or agents knocking down lampposts after the fact
- Hundreds of crash investigators are all lying
- Witnesses (none of whom saw a missile) are all lying
- Passenger phone calls must be faked
- Passenger DNA is faked

The fact that so many truthers express surprise when hearing these things or deny the obvious conclusions of their claims tells me that most of them aren't "thinking outside the box." They aren't thinking at all!

danielk
17th September 2007, 08:14 AM
The fact that so many truthers express surprise when hearing these things or deny the obvious conclusions of their claims tells me that most of them aren't "thinking outside the box." They aren't thinking at all!

Yup, that about sums it up. The government acting like that (if it were actually physically possible) would make Rube Goldberg hang his head in shame.

Although -- if I were a Truther I would naturally claim the government is acting in unbelievable ways on purpose in order to make the Twoof movement look stupid. The obvious retort is of course that they don't actually need assistance...

twinstead
17th September 2007, 08:21 AM
Although -- if I were a Truther I would naturally claim the government is acting in unbelievable ways on purpose in order to make the Twoof movement look stupid. The obvious retort is of course that they don't actually need assistance...

Yup. One word: COINTELLPRO

tsg
17th September 2007, 08:37 AM
Most of this can be summed up thusly: as with most conspiracy theories, it requires the conspirators to be simultaneously omnipotent and incompetent.

Cuddles
17th September 2007, 09:15 AM
Most of this can be summed up thusly: as with most conspiracy theories, it requires the conspirators to be simultaneously omnipotent and incompetent.

Alternatively, it requires the conspiracy theorists to be idiots.

Alferd_Packer
17th September 2007, 09:53 AM
The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules or took a few liberties with our female party guests.

We did. (wink)
But you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few sick, perverted individuals.
If you do... shouldn't we blame
the whole fraternity system?

And if the whole fraternity system is guilty... then isn't this an indictment
of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg.

Isn't this an indictment of our entire American society?

Well...

You can do what you want to us but we won't sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America!



But seriously, following the theories to their logical consclusion is inconsistant with "just asking questions."

brodski
17th September 2007, 09:57 AM
Truther claims don’t come from logical beginnings, what makes you think they can be taken to logical conclusions? ;)

tsg
17th September 2007, 10:21 AM
But seriously, following the theories to their logical consclusion is inconsistant with "just asking questions."

The thing that annoys me most with "just asking questions" is that they insist they are entitled to answers for, well, crap that they just made up.

buka001
17th September 2007, 10:32 AM
What amazes me is the way they apply "logic" to situations that require extensive scientific analysis. For a classic example I read on a truhther blog- " The engine from UA 175 couldn't have landed on the corner of Church and Murray because I drew "trajectory" lines from the video of the crash. I hand drew the trajectory of some things that flew out the building and it doesn't go that far."

Its laughable how many thousands of critical principles are ignored in this argument. Hell, even simple logic is ignored!

Disbelief
17th September 2007, 10:44 AM
I would say it would be a lonely existing berating the man and wondering what happened to your life.

Isn't this the logical end to a truther's existence?