"Do not judge"

[JetLeg]

I feel that there are some problems with educating children 'not to judge'.

-1- It is a psychological imperative, which is impossible to obey. We are judging by our nature, 'do not judge' means simply 'suppress judgement.

-2- Some people are bad people. Objectively. Fact. (Hitler). Not judging can cause to being used by them.

-3- Why ignore reality?

-4- This implies that you should not judge yourself. Though some people find it comforting not to judge oneself, it leaves no room for improvement. With such reasoning, we would all be couch potatoes.

I'd be glad to hear your response.

[quixotecoyote]

Is anyone teaching our children not to judge; as you are defining the term?

eta:
If anyone does claim to be teaching our children, I demand a paternity test because I haven't been enjoying nearly enough prerequisites for that.

[Brown]

Applying the "Do not judge others" rule blindly can cause one to lose sight of the main objective:

"Do not be a hypocrite."

[quixotecoyote]

Ahh yes. I should have suggested reading Matthew 7 in it's entirety, but I thought the reference was being used in the colloquial rather than biblical sense.

[JetLeg]

Is anyone teaching our children not to judge; as you are defining the term?

eta:
If anyone does claim to be teaching our children, I demand a paternity test because I haven't been enjoying nearly enough prerequisites for that.

I did not express myself well - this is not an official educational issue, but a very common folk wisdom.

[quixotecoyote]

I did not express myself well - this is not an official educational issue, but a very common folk wisdom.

Well as Brown pointed out, the folk wisdom stems from Matthew 7 and is meant as a prohibition against hypocrisy, not judgment as you referred to it.

Curious, are you American or Christian?

[Southwind17]

Is anyone teaching our children not to judge; as you are defining the term?

I would echo this question, but I suspect we are talking about a question of degree. The problem with children (of which I have three) judging, is that they tend to make judgements based upon limited knowledge, experience, polical, economic and social awareness. They do, therefore, tend to make judgements on shallow beliefs and perceptions. We should not discourage judgement by children, but should encourage them to question the basis upon which they might make judgements, and guide them down a path of self-awareness, objectivity, sensitivity, etc.

[JetLeg]

I was refering to the new-age interpretation to this idea, which assumes that judgement in general is a bad thing.

[Brown]

Well as Brown pointed out, the folk wisdom stems from Matthew 7 and is meant as a prohibition against hypocrisy, not judgment as you referred to it.

Just to follow up, Matthew 7 is part of the famous Sermon on the Mount, which some have suggested was not so much a real sermon as a collection of sayings. Hypocrisy was one of Jesus's big themes, and he rails against it not just in the Sermon on the Mount, but elsewhere, too.

I maintain that Jesus used humor in the Sermon on the Mount (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2113279&postcount=15) to point out the folly of hypocrisy.

[quixotecoyote]

I was refering to the new-age interpretation to this idea, which assumes that judgement in general is a bad thing.

Well yeah, but you won that argument at 'new age'.

[David Swidler]

We can't avoid judging; it's in our nature. But it is possible to judge people favorably, or at least give them the benefit of the doubt unless they have clearly demonstrated they don't deserve that treatment.

[Southwind17]

We can't avoid judging; it's in our nature. But it is possible to judge people favorably, or at least give them the benefit of the doubt unless they have clearly demonstrated they don't deserve that treatment.

Surely a sceptical JREF member gives nobody the benefit of the doubt! Did you get lost on the way to another forum?!?

[David Swidler]

Surely a sceptical JREF member gives nobody the benefit of the doubt! Did you get lost on the way to another forum?!?

There are other forums?!

[Fnord]

I'm posting this just to help the discussion along:

The Gospel according to St. Matthew, Chapter 7, verses 1 through 5 (KJV).

"Judging Others"

[1] "Judge not, that ye be not judged. [2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. [3] And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? [4] Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? [5] Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." -- Jesus of Nazareth.

Translated into more common English:

"Get your own (Rule 10) together before you go pointing fingers at others, you rotten little kid!" -- Mom.

Really, that's all it is: an admonition against hypocrisy. It is not a command to not judge others.

Judgment is critical in skepticism. It is sadly lacking in both Humanism and Cynicism.

[JoeEllison]

We can't avoid judging; it's in our nature. But it is possible to judge people favorably, or at least give them the benefit of the doubt unless they have clearly demonstrated they don't deserve that treatment.

Some people use that "do not judge" idea to say that you can never actually judge that someone doesn't "deserve that treatment"... it sits right next to "be open minded" on the list of stupid and thoughtless things people say.

[Fnord]

"Don't be judgemental." == "Don't tell others what to do (especially me)."

"Keep an open mind." == "Let me do your thinking for you."

[ksbluesfan]

I wonder what Ayn Rand would say about this topic.

[Fnord]

I wonder what Ayn Rand would say about this topic.

Well, I found this...


"It is the metaphysically given that must be accepted: it cannot be changed. It is the man-made that must never be accepted uncritically: it must be judged, then accepted or rejected and changed when necessary." -- "The Metaphysical Versus The Man-Made," Philosophy: Who Needs It?


... and ...


"One's own independent judgment is the means by which one must choose one's actions, but it is not a moral criterion nor a moral validation; only reference to a demonstrable principle can validate one's choices."

[Southwind17]

There are other forums?!

It's been mooted, but could be pure conjecture. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt, eh!

[greymatters]

This reminds of a line from one of the Star Wars movies:

"Only Sith deal in absolutes!"

When I first heard that, two more versions of the line popped into my mind:

* "Only Sith deal in absolutes! Well, not only Sith, and in fact, not all Sith...."

* "Only Sith deal in absolutes" "Are you sure?" "Absolutely!"

[rjh01]

How to judge others, for beginners.
Do not pass any opinion about a person. Wait until they explain how they judge people. Then judge them by their methods, not your own. If they go on about how evil x is and then they are caught doing x then they have done wrong even if x is not wrong.

Then what do you do with a serial mass killer who never judges other people?

[Southwind17]

Then what do you do with a serial mass killer who never judges other people?

I don't know, what do you do with a serial mass killer who never judges other people? (I feel a profound punchline coming on ...)

[rjh01]

Hope they (serial mass killers) do not exist maybe?