Family/Friends in Same Military Group?

[H3LL]

Muddled question here about family and friends serving in the same military group.

This was prompted by a CSI: Miami I have just watched where a marine's brother is killed during a skirmish with insurgents.

I understood that from WWI, the idea of what may have been called "Pals Regiments" or something similar was forbidden after whole families and even whole villages lost all their young men together.

Similarly, the recent movie Saving Private Ryan, although focusing on one family's losses, each brother was killed in a different theatre of the war and in different military groups.

Has this changed? Is it just a Brit thing? Am I mis-remembering? Is it just a plot-hole from the CSI writing team or did I miss something? (I still enjoy watching them, though).

If I'm correct, I would be curious to know how the policy is executed and if brothers could be together and when?
.

[quixotecoyote]

Muddled question here about family and friends serving in the same military group.

This was prompted by a CSI: Miami I have just watched where a marine's brother is killed during a skirmish with insurgents.

I understood that from WWI, the idea of what may have been called "Pals Regiments" or something similar was forbidden after whole families and even whole villages lost all their young men together.

Similarly, the recent movie Saving Private Ryan, although focusing on one family's losses, each brother was killed in a different theatre of the war and in different military groups.

Has this changed? Is it just a Brit thing? Am I mis-remembering? Is it just a plot-hole from the CSI writing team or did I miss something? (I still enjoy watching them, though).

If I'm correct, I would be curious to know how the policy is executed and if brothers could be together and when?
.

According to the last recruiter I talked to ~7 years ago, you can sign up with a buddy, but not a group. I remember only because I had multiple friends enlisting.

[Giz]

Muddled question here about family and friends serving in the same military group.

This was prompted by a CSI: Miami I have just watched where a marine's brother is killed during a skirmish with insurgents.

I understood that from WWI, the idea of what may have been called "Pals Regiments" or something similar was forbidden after whole families and even whole villages lost all their young men together.

Similarly, the recent movie Saving Private Ryan, although focusing on one family's losses, each brother was killed in a different theatre of the war and in different military groups.

Has this changed? Is it just a Brit thing? Am I mis-remembering? Is it just a plot-hole from the CSI writing team or did I miss something? (I still enjoy watching them, though).

If I'm correct, I would be curious to know how the policy is executed and if brothers could be together and when?
.


If I recall correctly, this policy was implemented in the USA after the Civil War, and in the UK after WW1 (i.e. after unprecedented casualties).

How robustly it is applied during peace time or in a (relatively) low intensity war... I don't know...

[dudalb]

IN the US,siblings could not serve in the same unit and in the Navy same ship after the Sullivan Brothers tragedy in 1942. Five Brothers enlisted in the Navy with the request they be allowed to serve together. The Navy,thinking it was good publicity ploy,allowed it,and they were stationed on the same ship.
Then all five were killed in one of the Naval Battles off Guadalcanal in 1942. The massive publcity from this caused all branches of the service to adapt the policy that no close relatives would serve in the same unit or on board the same ship.
The situation in Ryan was different in that the brothers were not in the same unit,and were not killed in the same action,it was just bad luck for the one family.
The nearest thing we had to the British Pals brigade was that in the US National Guard units are local based by state and region,and a number of these were incoporated whole in the first year of World War 2. After that the policy was to split up Guard units when put into federal service to avoid one area being hit with heavy casualaties in one action after several "State" divisons (made up from Guard Units from the same state for adminstrative ease) sufffered heavy casualaties in one action. The 36th Division in Italy comes to mind after it was badly torn up in the First Battle of Casino,the first of many Allied units to get slaughtered on that mountain.

[Denial]

As far as the Navy goes, this link should clear things up.

www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq72-5.htm (http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq72-5.htm)


Ql: What is the Navy's policy on brothers serving in the same ship?

A2: Brothers or members of the same family may serve in the same ship following approval of their request to do so by the Commander Naval Military Personnel Command so long as the ship is not in a hostile fire area. The member requesting assignment to a ship in which his immediate family member is serving must sign the following statement, "I voluntarily request assignment to duty with (relationship and name of other member) and do not anticipate submitting a request for transfer or separation in the near future."

The brother, or other member of the immediate family requesting the assignment must meet certain conditions for the duty requested, such as a need for his rating in the ship, sufficient time remaining in his enlistment and other eligibility requirements for the transfer.

Q2: Was this policy different during Vietnam?

A2: The policy has remained essentially the same since 1942.

Since that time approval for such assignments has been required from the appropriate assignment control authority at the headquarters level. Each approval has been accompanied by a statement of understanding which is signed by the member seeking the voluntary assignment.

DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY
NAVAL MILITARY PERSONNEL COMMAND
WASHINGTON, DC 20370

29 May 1980The bolding is mine.

[H3LL]

Denial's Q.2 seems to connect well to dudalb's Sullivan Tragedy in 1942.

The civil war connection seems dubious.

.

[Pope130]

With the USAF it is policy, but not regulation, to not assign close relatives to the same combat unit. The stated reason is that an individuals judgement may be impaired seeing a sibling or spouse in direct threat. This can sometimes work out oddly. In my unit (2nd Airlift Squadron, 23d CG) one of our Pilots married one of the Navigators. The Nav was reassigned to the other C-130 squadron (41st). When we deployed to Germany for the Bosnia airdrop mission we pooled crews from both squadrons. The couple wound up flying together, but it was OK because they were in different units.
Non-combat units have no such restriction. However siblings or spouses are often assigned to different units to avoid real or perceived favoritism.

Robert Klaus

[timhau]

Just last weekend, my wife and I were on a picnic in the Archipelago just outside Turku, Finland. We stopped in one of the small seaside towns/fishing villages to admire the early rennaissance church. Like in most old-time churchyards around here, they had set aside a special area for their young men who died in WWII -- almost 30 plaques, only four different dates of death. That's naval war for you.

[Darth Rotor]

Just last weekend, my wife and I were on a picnic in the Archipelago just outside Turku, Finland. We stopped in one of the small seaside towns/fishing villages to admire the early rennaissance church. Like in most old-time churchyards around here, they had set aside a special area for their young men who died in WWII -- almost 30 plaques, only four different dates of death. That's naval war for you.
1. Yes, war at sea tends to see people die in groups. I served on a destroyer in 1984 that had two brothers serving together, one an officer and one a senior petty officer, and also two twin brothers, both petty officers.

2. Pat Tillman and his brother were in the same Ranger unit, so it appears that the US Army has waivers to the policy.

DR

[Crossbow]

When I was in the Navy, there were twin brothers who worked in the same shop as I did.

So yes, it is indeed possible for siblings to be stationed together as per the regulations stipulated in Post #5.

P.S.: thanks to 'Denial' for looking up the regulation in question.