homeopathy, how does one make a correct dilution

[hmmm...]

If homeopathic remedies are such incredibly dilute solutions ie 1 part active ingredient to 1 x 10^30 or 1 x 10^1000 parts water, can someone explain the manufacturing process?

I've been wondering for a while and it occurred to me that it must take some pretty swanky lab equipment to get to the right dilution - but then I realised I didn't know anything about lab equipment...

Has anyone actually witnessed the manufacturing process? (other than just filling up with tap water that is..)

[geni]

If homeopathic remedies are such incredibly dilute solutions ie 1 part active ingredient to 1 x 10^30 or 1 x 10^1000 parts water, can someone explain the manufacturing process?

I've been wondering for a while and it occurred to me that it must take some pretty swanky lab equipment to get to the right dilution - but then I realised I didn't know anything about lab equipment...

Has anyone actually witnessed the manufacturing process? (other than just filling up with tap water that is..)

You could get close enough for any reasonable person with a volumetric flask but that might be regarded as overkill.

A 1 too 100 dilution is fairly trivial (something analytical chemists and the like do all the time). You just have to do it say 30 times in a row.

[Ivor the Engineer]

You could get close enough for any reasonable person with a volumetric flask but that might be regarded as overkill.

A 1 too 100 dilution is fairly trivial (something analytical chemists and the like do all the time). You just have to do it say 30 times in a row.

:confused:

Fine when you have lots of molecules swishing around, but what about when you have 1 or 2 left? How does "dilution" have any meaning?

[Rasmus]

A 1 too 100 dilution is fairly trivial (something analytical chemists and the like do all the time). You just have to do it say 30 times in a row.

But I would assume that a 1:100 dilution only has a certain accuracy - and the mistake would get carried on time and time again.

Also, of course, your base substances only have a certain degree of purity - whilst I haven't done the math, I'd think it will factor in the final result as well. (Then again, if you start with "Berlin Wall" as your base substance, I guess math no longer needs to bother with the whole thing ..)

[Cuddles]

But I would assume that a 1:100 dilution only has a certain accuracy - and the mistake would get carried on time and time again.

But since there aren't any molecules left (apart from the water, obviously), the error is zero. In any case, I don't think they ever actually claim a certain level of dillution. Instead, they go on about 30C, 10X and whatever, which simply means they have performed the action a certain number of times, it says nothing about the actual level of dillution reached.

[Mojo]

If homeopathic remedies are such incredibly dilute solutions ie 1 part active ingredient to 1 x 10^30 or 1 x 10^1000 parts water, can someone explain the manufacturing process?

I've been wondering for a while and it occurred to me that it must take some pretty swanky lab equipment to get to the right dilution - but then I realised I didn't know anything about lab equipment...


There seem to be two methods in general use: the Hahnemann method and the Korsakov method. The Korsakov method seems to be used for higher potencies (i.e. those with more dilutions).

See here (http://www.sulisinstruments.com/us/korsakovian.htm) for a description of what each method involves. Note that that page describes a "C" potency, with each step diluted 1 in 100. For an "X" potency it would be diluted 1 in 10 each time.

See also here (http://www.helios.co.uk/technical.html) for a brief description of a potentising machine (under the heading "High Potencies"), and an indication of the sort of potencies that they would use each method for.

[Ivor the Engineer]

There seem to be two methods in general use: the Hahnemann method and the Korsakov method. The Korsakov method seems to be used for higher potencies (i.e. those with more dilutions).

See here (http://www.sulisinstruments.com/us/korsakovian.htm) for a description of what each method involves. Note that that page describes a "C" potency, with each step diluted 1 in 100. For an "X" potency it would be diluted 1 in 10 each time.

See also here (http://www.helios.co.uk/technical.html) for a brief description of a potentising machine (under the heading "High Potencies"), and an indication of the sort of potencies that they would use each method for.

That made me laugh! Korsakov method = cleaning container. I did that with my coffee mug this morning.

[EHLO]

Don't forget that you can also add your own bells and whistles to the process - I see that this one even got a patent.

US Patent 5603915 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=4&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=5603915&OS=5603915&RS=5603915)

We claim..

..A method for preparing a homeopathic carrier solution for increasing the efficacy of a homeopathic medicine comprising the carrier solution, the method comprising the steps of sequentially subjecting the homeopathic carrier solution to an alternating current electrical treatment and a direct current electrical treatment, the alternating current electrical treatment comprising the steps of subjecting the homeopathic carrier solution to an alternating current in the range of 1 milliamp to 100 milliamps at a potential in the range of 5 volts to 30 volts and at a frequency in the range of 1 KHz to 1,000 KHz for a duration in the range of 20 seconds to 60 seconds, the direct current electrical treatment comprising the steps of subjecting the homeopathic carrier solution to a direct current in the range of 1 milliamp to 50 milliamps at a potential of 500 volts to 10,000 volts for a duration not exceeding 5 minutes.



:confused:

[geni]

:confused:

Fine when you have lots of molecules swishing around, but what about when you have 1 or 2 left? How does "dilution" have any meaning?

It still reduces the conentration.

[geni]

But I would assume that a 1:100 dilution only has a certain accuracy - and the mistake would get carried on time and time again.


Not really. Assume 100 ml flask. A grade glassware so error is less than .1ml. You would still expect to be within 97% of the correct value after 30 dilutions.


Also, of course, your base substances only have a certain degree of purity - whilst I haven't done the math, I'd think it will factor in the final result as well. (Then again, if you start with "Berlin Wall" as your base substance, I guess math no longer needs to bother with the whole thing ..)

Homeopaths would claim to get around this by claiming to use the same initial sample in treatment as they do in the proveings.

[geni]

That made me laugh! Korsakov method = cleaning container. I did that with my coffee mug this morning.

Yeah now try doing that 30 times. I tend to feel that makeing up a remedy counts as a fairly solid debunking of homeopathy in most people's minds.

[Mojo]

Homeopaths would claim to get around this by claiming to use the same initial sample in treatment as they do in the proveings.


So do they have to carry out a fresh proving each time they use a fresh mother tincture?

[Michael C]

Here's a description: http://www.hahnemannlabs.com/preparation.html. Apparently succussion is the most important part. It's so important that you're not allowed to do it alone:

WE TAKE THIS PROCESS VERY SERIOUSLY. THIS IS THE CORE FUNCTION AT OUR LABORATORY. It is so important that these steps be done correctly that we do not allow one person to perform them acting alone. We require that a trained person act as a witness to the entire procedure to guarantee you that each critical step was performed correctly.

They don't say what differences there might be between "correct" and "incorrect" succussion.

They have also built a succussing machine which they call the "Quinn Potentizer":

The design of the Quinn Potentizers was guided by a simple principle, that the machine actions should duplicate as closely as possible the actions of a vigorous person preparing a homeopathic medicine by hand. To this end the engineers who built the equipment actually measured Michael Quinn's arm from elbow to closed hand in order to build a mechanical arm of the same length.

I think they ought to have measured Hahnemann's arm. I suppose it was hard to get hold of it.

They don't say anything about where they get the water or alcohol used for the dilutions. I always wonder what sort of "memories" these liquids have at the start, and how the laboratory erases these memories...

[MRC_Hans]

So do they have to carry out a fresh proving each time they use a fresh mother tincture?I don't think they do, but they seldom use a fresh MT. What most pharmacies seem to do is that they keep a big jar of a low potency, then take a drop from that and work on. When the jar is about empty, they dilute it, succuss it, and presto! They have a new jar of a slightly higher potency (nice way of doing business).

I know that certain rare remedies exist only in fairly high potencies, because they have been stepped up for ages.

There is one thing wrong with all this, however: It is no use to look for rationality in homeopathy, 'cause there is none.

Hans

[thatguywhojuggles]

What I've always wondered is how they keep the water from being contaminated by other things. For example they say you shed 30,000-40,000 skin cells a minute. Wouldn't some of those get into the solution you are making?

http://yucky.discovery.com/flash/body/pg000146.html

I've always used this as a joke for my vegan friends. I let them know it is impossible for them to be vegan. As they prepare their carrots cucumbers and lettuce, they are constantly topping their salad with some nice human flesh. They can't be vegan, they're cannibals!

[Lothian]

Has anyone actually witnessed the manufacturing process? (other than just filling up with tap water that is..)

Randi has ! See here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/homeopathytrans.shtml). It is a transcript of the Horizon Homeopathy program. The process (refers to a machine) is about 1/6 of the way down.

[Ladewig]

Here's a description: http://www.hahnemannlabs.com/preparation.html. Apparently succussion is the most important part.

The first time someone told me about succussion and its importance, I didn't believe it.

One form of succussion is to shake the vial up and down ten times, left and right ten times, and back and forth ten times.

Succussion rules allow homepaths to discount claims that all tap water would have memories of hundreds of substances.

[Cuddles]

The first time someone told me about succussion and its importance, I didn't believe it.

One form of succussion is to shake the vial up and down ten times, left and right ten times, and back and forth ten times.

Succussion rules allow homepaths to discount claims that all tap water would have memories of hundreds of substances.

And of course, none of the ways it is done are actually correct since they're supposed to tap it three (I think) times on a leather-bound bible. It's kind of sad that even the homeopaths don't seem to know anything about homeopathy.

[LibraryLady]

I'm sorry. I first read it as "How does one make the correct delusion."

[Rolfe]

You could actually make such "dilutions" pretty accurately - with modern automatic pipettes, the error isn't great at all. However, it's not important to the homoeopaths, as it's not the dilution they're interested - it's a magic ritual, not a scientific procedure.

Rolfe.

[Silly Green Monkey]

They don't say anything about where they get the water or alcohol used for the dilutions. I always wonder what sort of "memories" these liquids have at the start, and how the laboratory erases these memories...

That's what the shaking is for, to confuse the water and clear its memory for new stuff. Just like an Etch-A-Sketch.

[Mojo]

That's what the shaking is for, to confuse the water and clear its memory for new stuff.


Couldn't they just pass it through an airport X-ray scanner?

[Madalch]

I'm sorry. I first read it as "How does one make the correct delusion."
Why be sorry? It's pretty much correct.

[Peter S.]

I make homeopathic remedies in my basement all the time. First, I take a ball of water the size of the solar system...

[ChristineR]

What I've always wondered is how they keep the water from being contaminated by other things. For example they say you shed 30,000-40,000 skin cells a minute. Wouldn't some of those get into the solution you are making?

http://yucky.discovery.com/flash/body/pg000146.html

I've always used this as a joke for my vegan friends. I let them know it is impossible for them to be vegan. As they prepare their carrots cucumbers and lettuce, they are constantly topping their salad with some nice human flesh. They can't be vegan, they're cannibals!

For a long time it was felt that vegetable proteins would be inadequate because they are "incomplete," not having certain amino acids in as high quantities as animal proteins. However all vegetarian diets are now known to be supplemented with intestinal lining, so there is no need to eat complete proteins at a single meal.

[MRC_Hans]

I make homeopathic remedies in my basement all the time. First, I take a ball of water the size of the solar system...Well, that's 19C. How do you make higher potencies? ;)

Hans

[CFLarsen]

But.....how do homeopaths find out if a dilution has been made the right way?

[Zep]

But.....how do homeopaths find out if a dilution has been made the right way?Proof by authority!

www.boiron.com

[MRC_Hans]

But.....how do homeopaths find out if a dilution has been made the right way?They know it works!

No, I'm not joking. That is, in fact, the answer.

Hans

[Zep]

Well, that's 19C. How do you make higher potencies? ;)

HansYou silly! He takes balls of water the size of galaxies, that's all.

[MRC_Hans]

You silly! He takes balls of water the size of galaxies, that's all.That's 27C, how about .......

Hans :D

[steenkh]

I found a bottle of tiny pills at one of my friends' home, and although the word "homoeopathy" was nowhere to be seen, everything about it looked woo, and the single ingredient was specified as some latin name (like homoeopaths prefer) and "D30" which look like a dilution.

But what dilution is D30? D in roman numerals is 500, but surely they have not made it in a base of 500? Is it D for Decimal, just like X?

[MRC_Hans]

I think D is sometimes used for decimal potencies (X potencies).

Hans

[Zep]

That's 27C, how about .......

Hans :DOK, he's got a big basement. ;)

[ben m]

From the description of the Korsakov method:

It is believed that by using the same container the final remedy contains the energy pattern of all the potencies up to and including the final potency, allowing the patients body to use the most effective potency for the condition.

If that's how it works, why not mix every possible homeopathic medicine into one super-tincture? You take the one pill and your body decides whether it wants the 10C zinc or the 20C belladonna or whatever.

[Zep]

From the description of the Korsakov method:



If that's how it works, why not mix every possible homeopathic medicine into one super-tincture? You take the one pill and your body decides whether it wants the 10C zinc or the 20C belladonna or whatever.Why not go the whole hog!

Every drop of water on Earth has likely been strained through rocks somewhere, passed over vegetable matter, gone through a dinosaur's kidneys, evaporated into the clouds, and mixed with every known natural salt in the oceans for hundreds of millions of years. Therefore, and especially since it can be diluted to any level required, ordinary tap water will be the ultimate and perfect homeopathic remedy for anything whatsoever that any plant or animal or person has that ails them.

Which means that any few drops of water is the perfect cure-all for everything...anything!

Which reminds me... I need to talk to my marketing gurus about this. There's money to be made from suckers if I can just think of a good scam to promote it...

[ben m]

http://www.sulisinstruments.com/howtheywork.htm
(http://www.sulisinstruments.com/howtheywork.htm)

Apparently these homeopaths don't even bother with dilution and succussion. They beam the homeopathic "energy patterns" directly into the water using electronics! It also claims to be able to "read" the energy patterns from already-prepared dilutions.

[Zep]

http://www.sulisinstruments.com/howtheywork.htm
(http://www.sulisinstruments.com/howtheywork.htm)

Apparently these homeopaths don't even bother with dilution and succussion. They beam the homeopathic "energy patterns" directly into the water using electronics! It also claims to be able to "read" the energy patterns from already-prepared dilutions.Yep! And hardly the silliest of homeopathic notions either, I'm afraid.

[kmortis]

But I would assume that a 1:100 dilution only has a certain accuracy - and the mistake would get carried on time and time again.

Also, of course, your base substances only have a certain degree of purity - whilst I haven't done the math, I'd think it will factor in the final result as well. (Then again, if you start with "Berlin Wall" as your base substance, I guess math no longer needs to bother with the whole thing ..)

Or Venus light.

By the way, I was peering at a homeopathetic product the other day, and I noticed that it's "active" ingredient was listed as a concentration of [Some number - I think it was 20]XC. Now, I'm familiar with X (1010) and C (10100), but XC confused me. If it was to be 10 100's, then that would be simply M, so I was guessing that it was meaning 90. That struck me as a weird concentration.

Ok, weirder than normal.

[JoeTheJuggler]

By the way, I was peering at a homeopathetic product the other day, and I noticed that it's "active" ingredient was listed as a concentration of [Some number - I think it was 20]XC. Now, I'm familiar with X (1010) and C (10100), but XC confused me. If it was to be 10 100's, then that would be simply M, so I was guessing that it was meaning 90. That struck me as a weird concentration.


Maybe that means you made a 10X remedy first. Then you take that and do a 1C of it. But honestly, I don't know.

As mentioned, the numbers really describe a process and not just a final concentration. So a 10X is doing a 1:10 dilution ten times, but a 1C is doing a 1:100 dilution just once.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Why not go the whole hog!

Every drop of water on Earth has likely been strained through rocks somewhere, passed over vegetable matter, gone through a dinosaur's kidneys, evaporated into the clouds, and mixed with every known natural salt in the oceans for hundreds of millions of years. Therefore, and especially since it can be diluted to any level required, ordinary tap water will be the ultimate and perfect homeopathic remedy for anything whatsoever that any plant or animal or person has that ails them.

Which means that any few drops of water is the perfect cure-all for everything...anything!


And, since homeopaths deny that regular tap water would indeed be a panacea, it always makes me wonder exactly when do they suppose an actual prepared homeopathic remedy stops being a remedy? When (and where) does it lose its potency or "potentiation"? In the mouth when you start to drink it? In the stomach when it mixes with the other stuff there? In the kidneys, in the bloodstream or bladder?

Of course that question also raises the question, "Where exactly in the body does a homeopathic remedy have a healing effect?" (Granted, we don't know the answer to that with many drugs, but we can at least narrow it down to a few possible sites--and given enough money, we probably could determine the precise action of every real drug.)

[CFLarsen]

Proof by authority!

www.boiron.com

It's true! :)

They know it works!

No, I'm not joking. That is, in fact, the answer.

Yeah. But this is one claim that they can't worm their way out of.

Testing homeopathy on sick people is complicated, and takes time and money.

But this can be tested very quickly and cheaply: To see if the homeopaths themselves can distinguish between homeopathic water cures and non-homeopathic water.

[Tanstaafl]

I don't know why people go about this the hard way. I suggest the Homeopathic Equivalency MethodTM:

1) Start with a small container of distilled water.

2) Label the container and it's ready for use.

[Zep]

I don't know why people go about this the hard way. I suggest the Homeopathic Equivalency MethodTM:

1) Start with a small container of distilled water.

2) Label the container and it's ready for use.A French medical firm has already done exactly that, but with flash marketing to put the price up.

www.boiron.com

[Gravy]

homeopathy, how does one make a correct dilution

You put your right hand in,
You put your right hand out;
You put your right hand in,
And you shake it all about.
You do the Hokey-Pokey,
And you turn yourself around.
That's what it's all about!

[Gravy]

A French medical firm has already done exactly that, but with flash marketing to put the price up.

www.boiron.com (http://www.boiron.com)
In 1990, the “multi-color” tube represented the various levels of homeopathic dilutions and encouraged accuracy in dispensing and treatment compliance because dosage were well-marked.

Today, translucency allows patients to see the quantity of medicine remaining in the tube, which alerts them to when their treatment needs to be renewed. This decreases the risk of interrupting a patient’s treatment.

The new homeopathic tubes have gradually been marketed in various countries. Use the interactive module to discover Boiron’s tubes and doses, color codes, dilutions, instructions, etc…Planned for 2012 are tubes that sing "I got plenty of nothin" from Porgy and Bess when the tube is first opened, and "Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'" by Billy Preston when it's time to renew.

[Zep]

You have to admit: It's been one of the longest-running and most successful marketing campaigns about nothing ever!

[Zep]

homeopathy, how does one make a correct dilution

You put your right hand in,
You put your right hand out;
You put your right hand in,
And you shake it all about.
You do the Hokey-Pokey,
And you turn yourself around.
That's what it's all about!That was the olden days, when movers and shakers were a dime-a-dozen. They have machines to do it now, which has destroyed the mystique, really.

:rolleyes:

[Gravy]

That was the olden days, when movers and shakers were a dime-a-dozen. They have machines to do it now, which has destroyed the mystique, really.

:rolleyes:It's giving me ideas for Homeopathy: The Musical, though.

[Madalch]

It's giving me ideas for Homeopathy: The Musical, though.
Would it be as funny as "Cold Fusion: The Musical"?

http://www.subatomichumor.com/shows/coldfusion.html

[Zep]

It's giving me ideas for Homeopathy: The Musical, though.Trumped, I'm afraid! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%2733%22)

[Tokenconservative]

If homeopathic remedies are such incredibly dilute solutions ie 1 part active ingredient to 1 x 10^30 or 1 x 10^1000 parts water, can someone explain the manufacturing process?

I've been wondering for a while and it occurred to me that it must take some pretty swanky lab equipment to get to the right dilution - but then I realised I didn't know anything about lab equipment...

Has anyone actually witnessed the manufacturing process? (other than just filling up with tap water that is..)


The most expensive and sought-after homeopathic um...snake oil, is that which contains the least amount of the active ingrediant.

My understanding is that the very best stuff is simply stored for a short time in an open container near a supply of the active ingrediant.

Tokie

[Tokenconservative]

And, since homeopaths deny that regular tap water would indeed be a panacea, it always makes me wonder exactly when do they suppose an actual prepared homeopathic remedy stops being a remedy? When (and where) does it lose its potency or "potentiation"? In the mouth when you start to drink it? In the stomach when it mixes with the other stuff there? In the kidneys, in the bloodstream or bladder?

Of course that question also raises the question, "Where exactly in the body does a homeopathic remedy have a healing effect?" (Granted, we don't know the answer to that with many drugs, but we can at least narrow it down to a few possible sites--and given enough money, we probably could determine the precise action of every real drug.)

I believe the results from homeopathic cures are very easy to see and gauge: did the homeopath used to drive a Hyndai and now drives a Mercedes?

It must work!

Tokie

[Gravy]

Trumped, I'm afraid! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%2733%22)Well played, sir! :D

[kmortis]

The most expensive and sought-after homeopathic um...snake oil, is that which contains the least amount of the active ingrediant.

My understanding is that the very best stuff is simply stored for a short time in an open container near a supply of the active ingrediant.

Tokie

Would that make Churchill's recipe a homeopathic martini? At least as far as Vermouth is concerned.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I believe the results from homeopathic cures are very easy to see and gauge: did the homeopath used to drive a Hyndai and now drives a Mercedes?

It must work!



:)

That's why they always say "it works" rather than any substantive about curative action of the stuff. It works well in its economic aims.

Seriously, though, almost any time I talk to a believer, one of their first lines of support is how popular the use of homeopathy is. Pretty much says the same thing you just said, TC.

[Zep]

Well played, sir! :DHard to tell, though, isn't it! :D

[Zep]

:)

That's why they always say "it works" rather than any substantive about curative action of the stuff. It works well in its economic aims.

Seriously, though, almost any time I talk to a believer, one of their first lines of support is how popular the use of homeopathy is. Pretty much says the same thing you just said, TC.That's their ONLY claim to proof - its popularity. Which is why I built the following truth-table:



http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_710457bfee3d0ad4.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3051)

[LordoftheLeftHand]

My understanding is that the very best stuff is simply stored for a short time in an open container near a supply of the active ingrediant.

Tokie

Oh I got much stronger stuff than that. I got bottles of water I keep unopened on the other side of the house from my chemicals. Now that's some REALLY strong stuff.

LLH

[Cuddles]

homeopathy, how does one make a correct dilution

You put your right hand in,
You put your right hand out;
You put your right hand in,
And you shake it all about.
You do the Hokey-Pokey,
And you turn yourself around.
That's what it's all about!

So that's why homeopathy doesn't work. All this time and they've been pronoucing "Hokey Cokey" wrong. I predict a fundamental breakthrough in modern medicine now that we've found the problem.

[Belz...]

I don't think they do, but they seldom use a fresh MT. What most pharmacies seem to do is that they keep a big jar of a low potency, then take a drop from that and work on. When the jar is about empty, they dilute it, succuss it, and presto! They have a new jar of a slightly higher potency (nice way of doing business).

But how in the blue hell do they avoid having water that's contaminated by millions of years of "memorising" other substances ?

It boggles the mind.

[Belz...]

So that's why homeopathy doesn't work. All this time and they've been pronoucing "Hokey Cokey" wrong.

And you've been writing "pronouncing" wrong. ;)

[JoeTheJuggler]

Wasn't there also something about tapping it with a Bible to activate it?

[Blackwell]

It's giving me ideas for Homeopathy: The Musical, though.

Why not call it "Waterworld II: The Succussing" and get Kevin Costner to star?

[sthomson]

But how in the blue hell do they avoid having water that's contaminated by millions of years of "memorising" other substances ?

It boggles the mind.

I just read in another homeopathy thread that homeopaths believe boiling "resets" water's memory. Like taking a magnet to a hard drive, or something.

[Tanstaafl]

I guess that makes sense, in their world of research by making **** up.

But still, people have taken sips of water from streams for millenia. Surely they were slammed with massive homeopathic effects from thousands of different substances. It's astonishing we survived that at all. And of course, all animals in the wild are still routinely getting massive doses of all sorts of homeopathic preparations.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I just read in another homeopathy thread that homeopaths believe boiling "resets" water's memory. Like taking a magnet to a hard drive, or something.
If you have a source for that, I'd love to see it. I'd also love to hear what possible explanation they give for why boiling would make it lose its memory.

If that's so, then it's still a potentized remedy when you pee it out and in the sewer and in the rivers and oceans. . . . .

[Cuddles]

And you've been writing "pronouncing" wrong. ;)

Dammit. Hmm, I wonder if I can get a miracle cure out of that somehow.:)

[Belz...]

I just read in another homeopathy thread that homeopaths believe boiling "resets" water's memory. Like taking a magnet to a hard drive, or something.

Well isn't that wonderfully convenient!

[steenkh]

But still, people have taken sips of water from streams for millenia. Surely they were slammed with massive homeopathic effects from thousands of different substances. It's astonishing we survived that at all. And of course, all animals in the wild are still routinely getting massive doses of all sorts of homeopathic preparations.
Nope, this water has not gone through the magic process of succussion.

[sthomson]

This "critical" article (http://glowing-health.com/your-questions/science-and-myths/critical-look-at-water-clusters-part6.html) on "water clusters" claims that electrolysis resets water memory. So homeopaths should start with ionized water (http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:MEl4-xwpzP0J:www.detoxifynow.com/alkaline_water.html+homeopathy+water+memory+reset) ...

A lightning-fast internet search doesn't bring up any other explanations for how water memory is "reset."

[Rolfe]

I remember a homoeopath on a discussion forum saying that putting the remedies down the drain wipes the memory - I think this was a make-it-up-as-you-go-along answer to the perennial question of how come their waste water isn't just hoaching with super-active remedies.

Rolfe.

[Zep]

Here's a thing: What if the Catholic church combined their ideas with homeopathy. They could have an infinite supply of holy water!

[fls]

I remember a homoeopath on a discussion forum saying that putting the remedies down the drain wipes the memory - I think this was a make-it-up-as-you-go-along answer to the perennial question of how come their waste water isn't just hoaching with super-active remedies.

Rolfe.

I suppose it's a good thing my dog doesn't drink from the toilet bowl. Wish I could say the same about my youngest child.

Linda

[NobbyNobbs]

I always figured there was just some guy in the back filling vials with water from the tap and adding a drop of green food coloring.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Nope, this water has not gone through the magic process of succussion.

But what about properly prepared and activated homeopathic remedies (already succussed or succussated or whatever)--when do they stop being remedies? Someone said they heard it proposed that it takes boiling--therefore the great quantities of homeopathics that have been ingested and peed out are still circulating in our waterways. (I wonder if evaporation which doesn't required boiling somehow resets water memory?)

So I'm sure then, that all homeopaths carefully boil the water (and don't let even one molecule of any contaminant come in contact with it) before they begin mixing up a new batch!

OK--so what resets lactose or alcohol memory for homeopathic remedies made with those substances and not water? Is lactose or alcohol memory formed by the same mysterious mechanism as water memory?

[sthomson]

OK--so what resets lactose or alcohol memory for homeopathic remedies made with those substances and not water? Is lactose or alcohol memory formed by the same mysterious mechanism as water memory?

What, apply some sort of rigorous scientific methodology to determine the functions and limits of homeopathy?? Those scientific vibes are harshing my succession, dude.

[Mojo]

I always figured there was just some guy in the back filling vials with water from the tap and adding a drop of green food coloring.


Pretty much (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1052496#post1052496).

[schlitt]

There was a town here in New Zealand where everybody died mysteriously. The cause of death was found to be overdose of homoepathic remedy.
What had happened was an earthquake had occured earlier in the day, and succussed the local water supply, which created a homepathic super remedy. So the poor people who thought they were drinking tap water, were really drinking a hugely powerful homepathic remedy... tragic.

[arthwollipot]

Here's a thing: What if the Catholic church combined their ideas with homeopathy. They could have an infinite supply of holy water!

Yeah. All they'd have to do is dilute their water with... water...

[Zep]

Yeah. All they'd have to do is dilute their water with... water...Ah yes. But the "holiness" would get stronger every time. Provided you banged the chalice against a leather-bound bible the correct number of times, of course.

[hmmm...]

There was a town here in New Zealand where everybody died mysteriously. The cause of death was found to be overdose of homoepathic remedy.
What had happened was an earthquake had occured earlier in the day, and succussed the local water supply, which created a homepathic super remedy. So the poor people who thought they were drinking tap water, were really drinking a hugely powerful homepathic remedy... tragic.


Waikikamookau ?

(Kiwi in-joke, sorry everyone else...)

[Zep]

Waikikamookau ?

(Kiwi in-joke, sorry everyone else...)Heh! The same thing happened in the little country towns of Kiccatinalong and Weelabarraback here in Oz!

[schlitt]

Waikikamookau ?

(Kiwi in-joke, sorry everyone else...)

I think it was Whakatiti ;)

[steenkh]

Here's a thing: What if the Catholic church combined their ideas with homeopathy. They could have an infinite supply of holy water!
They already have an infinite supply of holy water, and they skip the dilution step altogether. They just say the magic words, and the water is enchanted.

[Zep]

They already have an infinite supply of holy water, and they skip the dilution step altogether. They just say the magic words, and the water is enchanted.www.boiron.com ;)