Fascists are back in Germany

[Tailgater]

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6903&Itemid=2

http://gamepolitics.com/2006/12/15/crytek-developer-offers-frightening-account-of-german-game-crackdown/

I think German paranoia to not re-visit the Nazi era is affecting their judgement here and taking a step the wrong way.

[Darth Rotor]

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6903&Itemid=2

http://gamepolitics.com/2006/12/15/crytek-developer-offers-frightening-account-of-german-game-crackdown/

I think German paranoia to not re-visit the Nazi era is affecting their judgement here and taking a step the wrong way.
This reminds me of anti Dungeons and Dragons hysteria in the US, during the 1980's, squared.

DR

[Gurdur]

No offence for the whole of what follows. Not meant personally. However:
Fascists are back in Germany



Bollocks.
To be more wordy, your OP title has nothing to do with the content. Plus it Godwins itself in the very title, yet.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6903&Itemid=2
Yeah well, they're thinking of banning certain games for "glorifying violence". Maybe wrong, maybe right. But getting hysterical about it won't help none either.

http://gamepolitics.com/2006/12/15/crytek-developer-offers-frightening-account-of-german-game-crackdown/


Not even one person tasered? Not even one frogmarched off to jail pending outcome? Bunch of crybaby wussies.

Back in my day, we didn't cry police persecution unless we could show at least one broken bone. And they don't have one teensy-weensy bruise between the whole lot of them?

Amateurs. Pah.

I think German paranoia to not re-visit the Nazi era is affecting their judgement here and taking a step the wrong way.


Possibly, though it hasn't got so much to do with the Nazi era, does it? This is all a rather different category. Might help the discussion to be a bit more grounded in reality about this.

[Pardalis]

I'm still trying to get passed the 7th level of Batman Returns on Sega Genesis. :o

[Tailgater]

It's sad this is spreading to the EU.

They want to regulate games all the way back to the design stage.

For the children.:mad:

[Tailgater]

To be more wordy, your OP title has nothing to do with the content. Plus it Godwins itself in the very title, yet.


Possibly, though it hasn't got so much to do with the Nazi era, does it? This is all a rather different category. Might help the discussion to be a bit more grounded in reality about this.


Of course it doesn't, but it goes right along with what this forum has turned into. Just glance over the first page of the politics thread. Fascist everywhere!!! Especially here in the US.;)

[Gurdur]

It's sad this is spreading to the EU.
They want to regulate games all the way back to the design stage.
For the children.:mad:


Well, it would be bloody stupid if they wanted to regulate the ultra-violent computer games for the senior citizens instead, wouldn't it?

Seems to me they have a concern, and want to address that; how about we discuss that concern and any responses rationally, instead of screaming "Facism!"?

[Gurdur]

.... Just glance over the first page of the politics thread. Fascist everywhere!!! Especially here in the US.;)


We're not ALL Oliver, you know. Some of us could kill be very happy with some nice rationality instead.

[WildCat]

Yeah well, they're thinking of banning certain games for "glorifying violence". Maybe wrong, maybe right. But getting hysterical about it won't help none either.
Our idiot governor here in Illinois pushed through a law making it illegal to sell a violent video game to a minor, but it was declared unconstitutional (as per the State of Illinois Constitution).

[Tailgater]

No offence for the whole of what follows. Not meant personally. However:


No problem. I know nothing here is personal by most people.

[Gurdur]

I'm still trying to get passed the 7th level of Batman Returns on Sega Genesis. :o

Newbie. NØØb, u r sØ pwn3d, oneeleventy!

[Tailgater]

Well, it would be bloody stupid if they wanted to regulate the ultra-violent computer games for the senior citizens instead, wouldn't it?

Seems to me they have a concern, and want to address that; how about we discuss that concern and any responses rationally, instead of screaming "Facism!"?

Correct. But this is not about age restriction. It is about designing and producing them at all. Total censorship.

I retract fascism, I was hot off an Oliver thread when I made it.

ETA: I'm still pissed microsoft will have my 360 for a month to fix it.

[Pardalis]

Newbie. NØØb, u r sØ pwn3d, oneeleventy!

Believe me, I'm going to get that Penguin one day. ;)

[Gurdur]

No problem. I know nothing here is personal by most people.
Actually, a great deal is personal. But I want to be very careful here. Normally, you yourself strike me as being very rational and you talk as a person, not as a Propaganda Machine. But I also disagree with you here very strongly, so I am trying to both vehemently disagree with you while still saying that I don't disrespect you. A difficult tightwire job.
_______

Our idiot governor

America-hater.

[WildCat]

America-hater.
I challenge you to find one single Illinois poster on this forum who doesn't think Blago is an idiot! :p

[Gurdur]

...Total censorship. ...
Let's get the rational discussion going.

Let me start with a sliding scale:

How would you feel about a computer game that glorified gassing Jews?
(FYI: such games have been developed and exist)

How would you feel about a game glorifying rape?

How would you feel about a game glorifying rape of children under 8?

I retract fascism,
Fair enough. Thanks. It was my main objection.
I was hot off an Oliver thread when I made it.
The O Effect is just so bad for everything.

ETA: I'm still pissed microsoft will have my 360 for a month to fix it.
Isn't getting pissed off at Microsoft just so 90's? So ultra-trad?

[Tailgater]

I challenge you to find one single Illinois poster on this forum who doesn't think Blago is an idiot! :p

I'm just one state over, and I think he's an idiot.

[Gurdur]

I challenge you to find one single Illinois poster on this forum who doesn't think Blago is an idiot! :p

How was he elected?

[TX50]

Well, if they do get banned, then maybe it'd force "games developers" to
come up with something more edifying than the tired old "shoot stuff up"
rubbish they tend to churn out.

[Tailgater]

Let's get the rational discussion going.

Let me start with a sliding scale:

How would you feel about a computer game that glorified gassing Jews?
(FYI: such games have been developed and exist)

How would you feel about a game glorifying rape?

How would you feel about a game glorifying rape of children under 8?

I see you have started far on the scale.

I would not like to see any of those be legal.

None of the games I have seen brought up by politicians even get to that.
PlayStation 2 horror-RPG Rule of Rose was one example for ultra-horror.
I love those games.
I don't see any difference between video games and movies.
I think the laws would apply equally.
The only difference is, you can be in the movie.
I think that's what scares people.

[Tailgater]

How would you feel about a computer game that glorified gassing Jews?
(FYI: such games have been developed and exist)



Just to add to this. Recently there was a controversy over a palestinian video game fighting Israel in an open combat.

While in bad taste, I'm ok with that.

[Gurdur]

I see you have started far on the scale.
Yup, guilty as charged. It saves time.

You see, either you fell into the "No Censorship At All!" (the usual libertarian and/or trendy position) in which case I would have reminded you that laws about libel and slander exist, and you would have wibbled about that while I flamed you for inconsistancy, or you would have gone for the ultra-rad "No Censorship At All, ANY! Including libel etc.", which would be at least consistant but is a position held by very very few people indeed, or you would go for a rational, sensible position, which you did. That means I can talk with you. Thanks.

I would not like to see any of those be legal.
Okeydokey. Now we gotta work out whether the criteria for banning ultra-violent games are as satisfactory as the criteria for banning the examples I brought up.

None of the games I have seen brought up by politicians even get to that.
The game about gassing Jews was a neonazi job; it does exist. Banned most places, though.

[RandFan]

We're not ALL Oliver, you know. Some of us could kill be very happy with some nice rationality instead.And we are grateful to you.

[Tailgater]

Gurdur-
You would also have to define what "glorifying rape" would be.
It is legal to show rape in movies as a horrible act.
So, it should be legal in a video game.
But not as a participant and not showing rape in an acceptable light.

Example:Let's take the movie,"the hill have eyes", where some mutated killer rapes a woman. That might be in a video game version. You might be saving her by shooting him.

Or is glorifying rape, showing it at all?

[Gurdur]

Gurdur-
You would also have to define what "glorifying rape" would be. ....Or is glorifying rape, showing it at all?

No, I was thinking in my example of a game that would say depict violent rape quite graphically and vividly, where the gameplayer games as a rapist and racks up scores by raping people. That was what I was imagining as an example.

[Darth Rotor]

Perhaps the fascists in Germany are imports, like VW's in America are (nowadays from Mexico) and America has been exporting fascism to Germany. Ion can perhaps enlighten us on that.

DR

[Gurdur]

...Ion can perhaps enlighten us....

If I kill myself, the guilt will be upon your head.

[Darth Rotor]

If I kill myself, the guilt will be upon your head.


Pray don't. Drink youself into a short term coma, instead. :) Pilsner would be my suggested soporific.

DR

[Gurdur]

On a more serious note:

post-1975 to pre-1995, genuine fascism in West Germany was in fact funded by certain Americans. It was very small in activity and numbers.

Post-1993, neonaziism has been very much a Eastern Germany phenomenon (i.e. NOT a western German one), and much more "home"-driven, whereby it is really important to note that by "home-driven", this is former East Germany being meant, above all Saxony (not even Thuringia as much).

Many eastern German youth turned towards the far right. Basically, because they were often a bunch of dildos caught off-hop by the whole huge change following the reunification of Germany.

[Tailgater]

Perhaps the fascists in Germany are imports, like VW's in America are (nowadays from Mexico) and America has been exporting fascism to Germany. Ion can perhaps enlighten us on that.

DR

Hmm, a covert operation started in the late 80's headed by Tipper Gore to infiltrate the German political system and advance family oriented censorship?

I can totally see that.

[Gurdur]

Heh heh. Gore-hater.

_________

Gore wasn't so bad at all. But there were a few very rich Americans who did finance the last neolithic troglodyte nazis left in western Germany; unfortunately, neonaziism, almost totally extinct, got a new breath of life with all the unemployed East German wankers after 1993.

[Darth Rotor]

Hmm, a covert operation started in the late 80's headed by Tipper Gore to infiltrate the German political system and advance family oriented censorship?

I can totally see that.

About ten years ago, I was heard to say, while well into my cups and while the wife of Albert's appearance was the topic amongst fellow cup divers, "I'd tipper." I caught massive amounts of grief for that one, I assure you. For having uttered such a curious/gauche sentiment, I had to buy the next round. :p

Cab drivers made some money, that evening. I also had to pay a parking ticket, since where I had parked near the pub was only free parking after 5 PM. :p

It's all Tipper's fault, as I see it. :cool:

DR

[Tailgater]

Heh heh. Gore-hater.

No, just his wife. I respect Gore. I wouldn't vote for him though.

I was a teen that liked heavy metal and d&d in the early 80s. We all hated her.

[Gurdur]

She notorious for being a prude or something? I have no idea about her. I ain't American, so I don't know about some of these people.

[Tailgater]

She notorious for being a prude or something? I have no idea about her. I ain't American, so I don't know about some of these people.

http://www.geocities.com/fireace_00/pmrc.html

It eventually led to the advisory sticker on albums, but she blamed music for every woe in the US at the time.

Check out the filthy 15. Most of those songs would be laughable on a list today.

[WildCat]

How was he elected?
You can fool some of the people some of the time.

[Oliver]

Calm down, everyone. :p

First the Article pissed me of because Crytek is one of most
innovative Game-Designers and their 3d-Engine (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=crysis+tech+demo&search=Search) is just awesome.
But the remark that "hundred flak-jacketed riot police, all armed
with Heckler and Koch sub-machine guns" raided the company,
didn't sound real but rather like a 3d-Shooter itself.

So I tried to find any Article that would confirm that, but neither
GoogleNews (de & com) nor their Homepage revealed anything
about this alleged raid. So I guess it's a hoax - because a Razzia
with hundred of armed riot Policemen surely would make the News
all over the press here.

[Lonewulf]

Calm down, everyone. :p

First the Article pissed me of because Crytek is one of most
innovative Game-Designers and their 3d-Engine (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=crysis+tech+demo&search=Search) is just awesome.
But the remark that "hundred flak-jacketed riot police, all armed
with Heckler and Koch sub-machine guns" raided the company,
didn't sound real but rather like a 3d-Shooter itself.

So I tried to find any Article that would confirm that, but neither
GoogleNews (de & com) nor their Homepage revealed anything
about this alleged raid. So I guess it's a hoax - because a Razzia
with hundred of armed riot Policemen surely would make the News
all over the press here.
That does sound a little extreme, honestly...

Does anyone have anything to confirm this?

[Wheezebucket]

I'm still trying to get passed the 7th level of Batman Returns on Sega Genesis. :o

THAT GAME WAS IMPOSSIBLE! You just blew my mind with this post...I bought that game and I played it all the time, but I never did beat it.

[Gurdur]

Major debunking time!

That does sound a little extreme, honestly...

Does anyone have anything to confirm this?

As usual, Oliver is being evasive and he is also simply wrong. But then Oliver isn't the only one wrong here --- the report cited in the OP made it sound like the company got raided for developing a violent game.

But if you go to the very orginal post from which the cited report was taken (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=31767), you get a much different picture; the man from Crytek said:
"Ostensibly it was as a response to a claim made by a former employee that we had illegal software installed on our machines."

Even that is twisted around (note the "ostensibly") to make it look like the German police were just making life hell for the game developers because of the games themselves, but it's all bollocks. I like the way the bloke reporting it all originally managed to work in a rant about German smokers and lederhosen as well, and made it sound like it was all the fault of the Bavarian police. None of it so.

I finally found this: (http://www.zfx.info/News.php?ID=195)

Computersoftware illegal eingesetzt -- Polizei durchsucht Firma
Die Durchsuchung der Gebäude einer Coburger Computerfirma und der Wohnung des Firmenchefs nach illegaler Software zur Herstellung von Computerspielen erfolgte am Mittwochvormittag. Die Kripo Coburg durchsuchte auf Anordnung der Schwerpunkt-Staatsanwaltschaft für Wirtschaftsdelikte in Hof mit Unterstützung von zahlreichen Kräften der Bayrischen Bereitschaftspolizei sowie mehreren Computerspezialisten der oberfränkischen Polizei die Objekte und stellten Beweismittel sicher. .........

meaning more or less:
The investigation of the buildings of a Coburg software firm and the dwelling of a company boss, searching for illegal software used in manufacture of computer games, happened on Wednesday morning.* The Criminal Police of Coburg, on the orders of the State Attourney For Economic Crimes, with the assistance of many Bavarian police as well as several regional police computer-specialists, took various objects into custody. ....

* Report made on 05 February, 2004.

So basically apparently it was about alleged pirate software, but so far I have not found any reports on how it all went in any subsequent proceedings.

[Oliver]

Major debunking time!



As usual, Oliver is being evasive and he is also simply wrong. But then Oliver isn't the only one wrong here --- the report cited in the OP made it sound like the company got raided for developing a violent game.


Actually - Nope. This is exactly what I thought: "Can't be true". ;)

[Tsukasa Buddha]

How was he elected?

The Greens got 10% in his election.

He was just that bad.

[Oliver]

And I might add: If you're able to proof that there is an official
Statement of the Polizeidirektion Coburg, I will rest my case -
because I didn't find the so called "official Statement" in their
Press-Archive:

http://www.polizei.bayern.de/oberfranken/coburg/news/presse/archiv/index.html

[Gurdur]

Actually - Nope. This is exactly what I thought: "Can't be true".

Dearie me. Yet again Oliver can't quite get it right. After all, he did moot the whole thing was a hoax and that the raid never happened.

And also dearie me, yet another proof that Oliver does not actually have my posts on Ignore, another thing he has claimed.
______________

Here extra, from the Crytek official press release to the raid:
.......Die Entwicklung des langerwarteten Spieles Far Cry wurde nur um drei Stunden unterbrochen, während die Polizei die Angelegenheit mit Crytek und dessen Managementpersonal aufklärte!.....

meaning:

... The development of the long-awaited game Far Cry was only interrupted for 3 hours, during which the police undertook the examination together with Crytek and its management .....
___________


So bugger me dead, unlike what the very original complainant said (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=31767), let alone the even more twisted blog account cited in the OP (http://gamepolitics.com/2006/12/15/crytek-developer-offers-frightening-account-of-german-game-crackdown/), the whole raid was only three hours long and no-one got tasered or even arrested.

I feel very let down, now that Oliver has said how much he loves their crap. I wish it had happened elsewhere and that everyone had been shaken down, put in irons, keelhauled, and tortured until they confessed to everything possible, including burning down the Reichstag and the Great Library of Alexandria.

[Oliver]

Oliver, Oliver, Oliver. Man, grow up and show me the official press
release from the Police-Department in Coburg:

http://www.polizei.bayern.de/oberfranken/coburg/news/presse/archiv/index.html

[Gurdur]

And I might add: If you're able to proof that there is an official Statement of the Polizeidirektion Coburg, I will rest my case - ....

"I will rest my case" doesn't mean what you think it does.

because I didn't find the so called "official Statement" in their
Press-Archive:
D'oh! D'oh! Because you left out one tiny bit of essential info:

From the Bavarian police website:
"....Im Pressearchiv stellen wir Ihnen zurückliegende Pressemitteilungen zur Verfügung. Zu Meldungen, die aus rechtlichen Gründen nur begrenzte Zeit archiviert werden, erhalten Sie Auskunft über das jeweils zuständige Polizeipräsidium. ..."

Meaning, some press releases only get archived for a particular length of time. And in fact I found no press releases about any software or computer firms for 2004 at all, meaning that most likely 2004 was no longer archived.

Oliver, Oliver, Oliver. Man, grow up

Couldn't say it better myself, except your English as usual needs correction; it's:
Oliver, Oliver, Oliver; man, grow up.

[Oliver]

"I will rest my case" doesn't mean what you think it does.


D'oh! D'oh! Because you left out one tiny bit of essential info:

From the Bavarian police website:
"....Im Pressearchiv stellen wir Ihnen zurückliegende Pressemitteilungen zur Verfügung. Zu Meldungen, die aus rechtlichen Gründen nur begrenzte Zeit archiviert werden, erhalten Sie Auskunft über das jeweils zuständige Polizeipräsidium. ..."

Meaning, some press releases only get archived for a particular length of time. And in fact I found no press releases about any software or computer firms for 2004 at all, meaning that most likely 2004 was no longer archived.



Couldn't say it better myself, except your English as usual needs correction; it's:
Oliver, Oliver, Oliver; man, grow up.


You're quoting a forum :boggled: - I'm asking for the official link you try
to portray as being authentic. Show me the truth - post the
link to the official Police-Pressrelease - I'm a Skeptic, thanks.

[Gurdur]

I also found that apparently the raid was reported at the time by a local newspaper, the Coburger Tageblatt, according to this page. (http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/44334/) However, the Coburger Tageblatt apparently only archive for seven days, as far as I can see on their own site, so no copy kept there.

[Oliver]

I also found that apparently the raid was reported at the time by a local newspaper, the Coburger Tageblatt, according to this page. (http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/44334/) However, the Coburger Tageblatt apparently only archive for seven days, as far as I can see on their own site, so no copy kept there.


But it should be here, shouldn't it? :

http://www.polizei.bayern.de/oberfranken/coburg/news/presse/archiv/index.html

[Gurdur]

.....I'm a Skeptic
And I am Mick Jagger. :)

[Gurdur]

But it should be here, shouldn't it? :

http://www.polizei.bayern.de/oberfranken/coburg/news/presse/archiv/index.html

Which part of what I already wrote don't you want to understand?
To quote myself again:
D'oh! D'oh! Because you left out one tiny bit of essential info:

From the Bavarian police website:
"....Im Pressearchiv stellen wir Ihnen zurückliegende Pressemitteilungen zur Verfügung. Zu Meldungen, die aus rechtlichen Gründen nur begrenzte Zeit archiviert werden, erhalten Sie Auskunft über das jeweils zuständige Polizeipräsidium. ..."

Meaning, some press releases only get archived for a particular length of time. And in fact I found no press releases about any software or computer firms for 2004 at all, meaning that most likely 2004 was no longer archived.

[Oliver]

Which part of what I already wrote don't you want to understand?
To quote myself again:


And the link to this official statement is ....... where is it? :confused:

I didn't find it - could you help me out? :
http://www.polizei.bayern.de/oberfranken/coburg/news/presse/archiv/index.html

[Gurdur]

Which part of the post just above yours do you not want to understand? Really, playing dumb doesn't impress anyone at all.

[Oliver]

Which part of the post just above yours do you not want to understand? Really, playing dumb doesn't impress anyone at all.


That's not my point. If you claim there is an "OFFICIAL STATEMENT
FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IN COBURG", then please back it
up. That's all I'm asking for and every Skeptic in here surely agrees
that this is fair enough...

[Gurdur]

Fine, fine, so you're playing dumb and you are also being intentionally dishonest about what I claimed. No worries. Situation as usual then.

[Oliver]

Fine, fine, so you're playing dumb and you are also being intentionally dishonest about what I claimed. No worries. Situation as usual then.


(My impression here)

Gurdur: "There is an official Statement - I found it on the internet."
Oliver: "Where is it on the official Site of the Police Department where
you claim it came from?"
Gurdur: "Doesn't matter"

Is that correct? :confused:

[Gurdur]

Gurdur: "There is an official Statement - I found it on the internet."
Oliver: "Where is it on the official Site of the Police Department where
you claim it came from?"
Gurdur: "Doesn't matter"

Is that correct? :confused:

No, you are lying.

Use actual quotes. Not made-up lies. Or shut up. Clear?

[Oliver]

No, you are lying.

Use actual quotes. Not made-up lies. Or shut up. Clear?


Until I see the so-called official Press-Release - COMING FROM
THE OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE SITE (http://www.polizei.bayern.de/oberfranken/coburg/news/presse/archiv/index.html), your claims are worthless
for me being a Skeptic, I apologize.

[Gurdur]

Until I see the so-called official Press-Release - COMING FROM
THE OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE SITE (http://www.polizei.bayern.de/oberfranken/coburg/news/presse/archiv/index.html), your claims are worthless
for me being a Skeptic, I apologize.

Oliver, you lied about what I said in your post just above. Clear?

When you wrote this:
Gurdur: "There is an official Statement - I found it on the internet."
it was a lie. Which part of that will you now evade?

As for the rest of your evasions regarding the rest of the matter, everyone else will note them.

[Oliver]

Oliver, you lied about what I said in your post just above. Clear?

When you wrote thise:

it was a lie. Which part of that will you now evade?

As for the rest of your evasions regarding the rest of the matter, everyone else will note them.


It was my impression - not an accusation. That's why I asked:
"Is this correct?". Please don't try to turn this into a Lie. But all
of this doesn't matter because the Police Department in Coburg (http://www.polizei.bayern.de/oberfranken/coburg/news/presse/archiv/index.html)
doesn't confirm your version.

I'm sorry to point this out - but since I didn't find the official
Press Release, I have no reason to believe you, I apologize.

[Oliver]

Anyway: I rest my case. Maybe someone can put this story
straight because I don't believe the OP-Links for one minute.

[Gurdur]

It was my impression - not an accusation.
It was a lie.You have been set straight a number of times, you continue to evade. All points to you intentionally lying.
Police Department in Coburg

The Police Dept there don't keep certain press releases archived for a particular length of time. You are also lying by not taking that into account; you are lying by omission there.
I have no reason to believe you

That's OK. I think everyone else will have no problem at all believing me. And your lies are very clear here, and easy to see for everyone else. :)

[Oliver]

It was a lie.You have been set straight a number of times, you continue to evade. All points to you intentionally lying.


The Police Dept there don't keep certain press releases archived for a particular length of time. You are also lying by not taking that into account; you are lying by omission there.


That's OK. I think everyone else will have no problem at all believing me. And your lies are very clear here, and easy to see for everyone else. :)


That's wrong as this article from the archive proves:

Pressebericht des Polizeipräsidiums Schwaben vom 14.11.2005 (http://www.polizei.bayern.de/schwaben/news/presse/aktuell/index.html/3539)


The Archive goes back to 2005. But maybe we're talking about a
raid that happened before 2005. :boggled:

[Gurdur]

That's wrong as this article from the archive proves:

Pressebericht des Polizeipräsidiums Schwaben vom 14.11.2005 (http://www.polizei.bayern.de/schwaben/news/presse/aktuell/index.html/3539)

The Archive goes back to 2005. But maybe we're talking about a
raid that happened before 2005. :boggled:

Yes, we are talking about a raid that happened in 2004, and it already has been pointed out by me way before (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2998248&postcount=40) that it happened in 2004. And of course, just in case your arithmatic is like the rest of your knowledge, 2004 is before 2005.

Which makes what you just wrote extremely stupid, as well as wrong, doesn't it?

Now, how do you justify your lies about what I wrote?

[WildCat]

The Archive goes back to 2005. But maybe we're talking about a
raid that happened before 2005. :boggled:
It's been well-established the raid took place in 2004. I agree with Gurdur, you are being deliberately thick-headed.

[technoextreme]

No, I was thinking in my example of a game that would say depict violent rape quite graphically and vividly, where the gameplayer games as a rapist and racks up scores by raping people. That was what I was imagining as an example.

Custard's revenge. (http://classicgaming.gamespy.com/View.php?view=GameMuseum.Detail&id=282)

[Oliver]

Yes, we are talking about a raid that happened in 2004, and it already has been pointed out by me way before (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2998248&postcount=40) that it happened in 2004. And of course, just in case your arithmatic is like the rest of your knowledge, 2004 is before 2005.

Which makes what you just wrote extremely stupid, as well as wrong, doesn't it?

Now, how do you justify your lies about what I wrote?


Okay, I just saw that you indeed wrote it's from 2004 - I missed
that and I apologize for missing it. So what's the fuzz about any-
way. Old hat, isn't it? They're still in Germany and I guess forgot
about the incident anyway.

[Gurdur]

Okay, I just saw that you indeed wrote it's from 2004 - I missed that and I apologize for missing it. So what's the fuzz about any-
way. Old hat, isn't it?

You intentionally lied about what I said, as well as your being extremely stupid.

Care to deal with your intentional lie about what I said?

[Gurdur]

It's been well-established the raid took place in 2004. I agree with Gurdur, you are being deliberately thick-headed.

Very seriously, thank-you, WildCat. It is extremely tiresome to deal with someone being intentionally dishonest as well as simply really thick.

[Oliver]

You intentionally lied about what I said, as well as your being extremely stupid.

Care to deal with your intentional lie about what I said?


Feel free to quote the full message where I lied - even if I don't know
if this is violating the Board-Rules concerning "on-topic discussing".
Maybe a Mod or Admin could clear this up.

[Gurdur]

Feel free to quote the full message where I lied - ev.

It was already quoted here. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2998454&postcount=57) Deal with it.

You lied about what I had said, and you continue to evade the point. You also very stupidly did not check facts already given to you.

[Oliver]

It was already quoted here. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2998454&postcount=57) Deal with it.

You lied about what I had said, and you continue to evade the point. You also very stupidly did not check facts already given to you.


Well, quote the FULL post. Thank you.

[Gurdur]

Well, quote the FULL post. Thank you.

Oliver, just deal with it. You've proven just how stupid you could be in considering the evidence given to you; at least you could try to act like a man and simply apologise for also lying about what I said.

Otherwise, as far as I am concerned, everyone else can see quite perfectly well here how you both completely ********** up in even reading, let alone considering the evidence, and just how you also lied about what I said. And there the matter will rest -- to be referred to as necessary.

No amount of playing dumb from you will serve to save you from that. Everyone else can see very well indeed, no matter how much you don't want to. Mind you, it IS entertaining about how you also claimed to be a "Skeptic". I think that part would give most a very big laugh indeed.

[Oliver]

Well, quote the FULL post. Thank you.


Well? :confused:

And no. I didn't lie. I asked a question and I have no
Idea how you can turn a question into a "lie". And you're
failing to quote the full post where I lied.

But anyway: I reported myself to get clarification from
an Admin or Moderator if this could be considered as a
breach of R11 or R12 - since I already got a lot of warnings
regarding those rules thanks to some people in here.

But feel free to explain what part was a lie - or post
the message in question.

[Pardalis]

Meanwhile, I'm still stuck at level 7 boss in Batman Returns, as I have been for the last 12 years...

[Wheezebucket]

Meanwhile, I'm still stuck at level 7 boss in Batman Returns, as I have been for the last 12 years...

We should start a support group.

[Pardalis]

The people-who-suck-at-video-games anonymus?

Do not derail the thread. If you wish to discuss your lack of success with video games, please do so in the appropriate sub-forum.

[Gurdur]

Meanwhile, anyone who wants to try mooting the whole "raid" report was only a hoax needs to explain just why Crytek still have their original press release on the raid archived in full on their official website. (http://www.crytek.com/news/news/browse/7/article/9/crytek-offic/download//1e963dd010.html)

[Wheezebucket]

The people-who-suck-at-video-games anonymus?

Hey, don't sell yourself short, that game is hard as hell! We shall overcome!

Do not derail the thread. If you wish to discuss your lack of success with video games, please do so in the appropriate sub-forum.

[jsiv]

A conspiracy to make the authorities look bad.

[Gurdur]

A conspiracy to make the authorities look bad.

Maybe I should have gone for subtlety and tried getting him to defend his weird little CT. Naw, bugger it, some days I just can't bother.

[Travis]

You are all aware that government officials messing up and looking dumb couldn't possibly happen in modern Germany with all those people there with the "European Intellectual POV."

[Oliver]

You are all aware that government officials messing up and looking dumb couldn't possibly happen in modern Germany with all those people there with the "European Intellectual POV."


Of course this could happen nowadays. The difference
is that no hundred thousands of people have to die for
messing something up over here.

But anyway: Which government officials messed up
regarding the topic of this thread?

[Gurdur]

You are all aware that government officials messing up and looking dumb couldn't possibly happen in modern Germany with all those people there with the "European Intellectual POV."
Well, hopefully next time they will be less intellectual and they will simply taser the raided into oblivion, thus saving us from yet another cruddy shoot-'em-up game. I agree with you that their not doing it this time was a black mark on their record, but be fair, everyone deserves a second chance.
_______

Of course this could happen nowadays. The difference is that no hundred thousands of people have to die for messing something up over here. But anyway: Which government officials messed up
regarding the topic of this thread?
Maybe you should get a clue about this whole topic before trying to speak on it again, seeing as to how you've demonstrated your ignorance here so .... clearly.

[Lonewulf]

Well, hopefully next time they will be less intellectual and they will simply taser the raided into oblivion, thus saving us from yet another cruddy shoot-'em-up game. I agree with you that their not doing it this time was a black mark on their record, but be fair, everyone deserves a second chance.

Would FEAR, Half-Life 2, Dystopia (free game using source engine, ONLY cyberpunk FPS I know of), Half-Life, Deus Ex, and Deus Ex 2 count as "cruddy shoot-'em-up" games? ;)

[Gurdur]

Would FEAR, Half-Life 2, Dystopia (free game using source engine, ONLY cyberpunk FPS I know of), Half-Life, Deus Ex, and Deus Ex 2 count as "cruddy shoot-'em-up" games? ;)

On this thread, probably. All is context. Expect no mercy for anything here, no quarter will be granted; it's shoot-'em-up all the way in and all the way out.

[Lonewulf]

On this thread, probably. All is context. Expect no mercy for anything here, no quarter will be granted; it's shoot-'em-up all the way in and all the way out.
Well, if people are going to actively pursue ending my enjoyment, I'll take it personally.

Expect no mercy from me, either. I radically oppose anyone that wants to shove their "ideals" upon me. If you don't like the game, then don't *********** buy it.

[fuelair]

Fascists are back in Germany


I hadn't realized they left.

[Tailgater]

Wow, I could have left the second link out. The website itself had multiple stories about problems with Germany and the EU in general. I thought the real story would be from the Gen site which is a new story (also from the second link) and googled from multiple sources. They will stop these companies from any design or production. I think that is more important than how many cops showed up at a raid.

Although, I find it hilarious, no matter what the raid was for.

Good debunking Gurdur.
ETA: I looked through a page or two of stories on the raid itself, and just by other accounts it seems people remember it. You were right about the disgruntled employee.

[Gurdur]

Well, if people are going to actively pursue ending my enjoyment, I'll take it personally.

Expect no mercy from me, either. I radically oppose anyone that wants to shove their "ideals" upon me. If you don't like the game, then don't *********** buy it.

Take it easy, Lonewulf, or learn sardonicism or the art of witticism. In either case, whether you can understand humour or not, I shall dutifully expect no mercy from you.
______

Now: any ideas or comments from you on the original OP argument (banning ultra-violent games) beyond the rather as yet meaningless fact that you oppose it?

[Gurdur]

.... The website itself had multiple stories about problems with Germany and the EU in general. ...
An interesting addition.
.....Although, I find it hilarious, no matter what the raid was for.

Good debunking Gurdur.
ETA: I looked through a page or two of stories on the raid itself, and just by other accounts it seems people remember it. You were right about the disgruntled employee.
Many thanks. Possibly I should have made it all far more boringly simple for everyone to understand rather than injecting my sense of humour into the proceedings, something which seems to have thrown a couple of people off, but hey, at least you and I understand each other a bit more, and what more can one ask in this world?

[Lonewulf]

Take it easy, Lonewulf, or learn sardonicism or the art of witticism.
I don't need to learn it, I just need to rediscover it. :blush:

Been taking things too seriously, I admit. I'm relaxed now. Ahhhhh...

In either case, whether you can understand humour or not, I shall dutifully expect no mercy from you.
Too relaxed now to be unmerciful. :D

Now: any ideas or comments from you on the original OP argument (banning ultra-violent games) beyond the rather as yet meaningless fact that you oppose it?

Well, there goes me being relaxed.

I have several ideas. Which do you want to hear?

What arguments are there to deal with? That you don't like those games, so they should be banned? And in which case, how do you define "ultra violent"? If you want to ban only games that most people find objectionable, that's one thing. But it's also no fun to run with the argument that everyone agrees with.

But if you want to ban violent games, then we should logically extend those laws to ban ultra violent movies. If you want to ban a game because it has violence, then you should ban a movie because it has violence. It seems rather silly to ban a game that features tearing out people's eyeballs while letting, say, something like Kill Bill stick around.

I'd have to see what ridiculous arguments there are to justify forcing YOUR preferences onto me. You don't like ultra violent games; then don't buy them. You don't like bloody movies; then don't buy them. Simple as that.

Let's put it this way: The day that there lies a broken and bloody body, with a violent evil video game cartridge sweating while clutching a baseball bat, filled with the glory and pleasure of the kill (as only an animate cartridge can), will be the day I actually will be sympathetic to your cause.

Until then, I'm practically an absolutist (with some caveats) when it comes to banning ANY form of fiction, from videogames, books, and television. Quite frankly, if it's distasteful enough to piss off the majority of people, then it just won't sell enough.

[Darth Rotor]

Until then, I'm practically an absolutist (with some caveats) when it comes to banning ANY form of fiction, from videogames, books, and television. Quite frankly, if it's distasteful enough to piss off the majority of people, then it just won't sell enough.

I am thinking GTA San Andreas might fit the "piss off" category, and it sold like crazy.

DR

[Lonewulf]

I am thinking GTA San Andreas might fit the "piss off" category, and it sold like crazy.
So it sold to a lot of people that didn't like it? ;)

Either way, I'm all for GTA San Andreas to be sold. I'm also for hentai rape games to be sold. *Shrugs* If it's your cup of tea, I really don't want to regulate what you can buy for yourself when it comes to fiction. What I would find hilarious is if people got arrested and thrown in jail for "peddling" certain videogames, and the owners of those games getting the same. I can just imagine a gamer going, "Don't taze me, bro!"...

I mean, if you REALLY want to read Sylvia Browne's biography, go ahead. Just don't mind if I buy a few volumes just to burn. :D

[Darth Rotor]

I mean, if you REALLY want to read Sylvia Browne's biography, go ahead. Just don't mind if I buy a few volumes just to burn. :D
So long as you buy a carbon offset for that fire, go for it bro! :)

DR

[Lonewulf]

So long as you buy a carbon offset for that fire, go for it bro! :)

:D :D :D

[Gurdur]

What arguments are there to deal with? That you don't like those games, so they should be banned? ....I'd have to see what ridiculous arguments there are to justify forcing YOUR preferences onto me.
Well, pardon me treating you like a person. Maybe you should go back and re-read the entire thread. You've missed a whole lot and your brave declarations of your independence only bore me.
But if you want to ban violent games, then we should logically extend those laws to ban ultra violent movies.
Who said I was out to ban violent games? Possibly you took one previous joke of mine wrongly. I can't be bothered apologising for having a sense of humour, since you couldn't be bothered at all reading the previous posts which actually set out the serious arguments -- and this thread is a bloody short one, which makes it easy for you.

I will say one thing -- I don't personally give a stuff if they ban ultra-violent games of certain kinds. Not that the nuances would interest you, I'm sure.

will be the day I actually will be sympathetic to your cause.
You haven't got a clue as to what MY actual cause is.
Until then, I'm practically an absolutist (with some caveats) when it comes to banning ANY form of fiction, from videogames, books, and television.
With "some caveats", huh? If you're serious about discussing instead of posing with the Flag Of Independence while the muted trumpets play in the background, we could start from that point. What are your caveats?

Otherwise, if you're not interested in serious discussion, tell you what, go argue with reality, the world and the legislators. Have fun.
Quite frankly, if it's distasteful enough to piss off the majority of people, then it just won't sell enough.
An incredibly stupid and amoral argument. Not all of us think each and every law should be based on the whims of the market.

"If murder pisses off enough people, then it just won't SELL. So legalise murder now!"

Pardon me if I sound harsh. It's just that your self-righteousness combined with ignorance, when you could have actually had a good discussion had you wanted to, just get on my nerves.

[Oliver]

Are we still talking about the far-fetched report that a
Nazi special-ops team with hand grenades and AK-47's
raided the firm 500 years ago? :confused: [/exaggeration]

[Gurdur]

Are we still talking about the far-fetched report that a
Nazi special-ops team with hand grenades and AK-47's
raided the firm 500 years ago? :confused: [/exaggeration]

Ah, it's Oliver again in the usual state of cluelessness. Don't worry, folks, just carry on, move on, move on, nothing to see here.

[Oliver]

Ah, it's Oliver again in the usual state of cluelessness. Don't worry, folks, just carry on, move on, move on, nothing to see here.


:p

[Tailgater]

Are we still talking about the far-fetched report that a
Nazi special-ops team with hand grenades and AK-47's
raided the firm 500 years ago? :confused: [/exaggeration]

No, we are talking about game designers and production that will be relocating out of Germany if a new law passes. Your still focusing on one story in an entire website of complaints about Germanys attitude toward gamers.

But we expect that from you.

I was just reading that Crackdown and Gears of War couldn't be sold or advertised in Germany either, even online. You have to drive to Austria. I have both of those and I don't see them as even close to the ultra-violent category.

[Lonewulf]

With "some caveats", huh? If you're serious about discussing instead of posing with the Flag Of Independence while the muted trumpets play in the background, we could start from that point. What are your caveats?

My caveats deal with non-fictional material, wherein libel or slander is undertaken.

With fictional sources of media, anything goes. Nothing is "blasphemous". Make fun of Jesus Christ if you want, suggest he's a homosexual in a fictional context. I don't think you should be arrested for that... but some people are. There still are "obscenity" laws, after all, and a group that made fun of Jesus was in serious trouble with the law in Corpus Christi, Texas. They were shut down; because people were offended.

So, yeah, with fictional material, I guess I am an absolutist. Anything goes.

An incredibly stupid and amoral argument. Not all of us think each and every law should be based on the whims of the market.

"If murder pisses off enough people, then it just won't SELL. So legalise murder now!"

Pardon me if I sound harsh. It's just that your self-righteousness combined with ignorance, when you could have actually had a good discussion had you wanted to, just get on my nerves.

And the fact that you think that violent videogames are morally, legally, or logically equivalent to murder isn't ignorant?

:rolleyes:

When you show me a videogame cartridge, standing over the corpse of someone it killed with a baseball bat, then I would agree with you. Still haven't seen it yet, though.

Seriously, did you think that this would convince me? "Oh, wow, you're so right! We can't legalize murder, so therefore we should ban videogames because you don't like their content! Oh dearie me, I'm such a hypocrite... not wanting to legalize murder can't be reconciled with wanting to keep videogames unbanned! Oh dear!"

Oh, and I'm entirely sorry that I actually have some principles that I stand behind. What kind of argument did you want? Hell, what are your arguments? What logical, rational argument do you have that states why you should decide what I can and cannot view and/or play?

Hell, why not bring back the Comics Code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_code) for videogames? I mean, we censor some things, so therefore we should be able to censor more things.

[Tailgater]

Oliver, if this is enforced and someone tries to develop such a game, the story you are laughing about would happen.

" in May, the IMK unanimously decided to ban the production and distribution of ‘violence glorifying games’. With ‘violence dominated games' now also under the spotlight, Germany could lose one of Europe’s most prominent developers."

http://forums.firingsquad.com/firingsquad/board/message?board.id=pc&message.id=39601

[Tailgater]

I think I agree with you Lonewolf (I'm not sure to what extent). What is fair for movies is fair for games. I can understand age restrictions. '

Are movies restricted or banned like this too?

[Lonewulf]

I think I agree with you Lonewolf (I'm not sure to what extent). What is fair for movies is fair for games. I can understand age restrictions. '

That's another funny thing. Movies are under age restrictions (like when it comes to theaters; they won't allow people below a certain age in), but videogames aren't restricted. They have "warning labels", but there is no law keeping you from buying such a videogame for your children; not that I agree that the law should be involved to tell you how or how not to raise your kids in this instance. (Though, admittedly, you could also buy movies and have your kids watch them; I grew up watching the Friday the 13th movies. I thought it was cool when Jason would stab some guy in the eyeball with one of those "woodpecker" toys)

I mean, in GTA, you could run around, beat up cops, have sex with prostitutes, traffic drugs, and all that fun stuff. It was rated for people 17 or up. Then, it's revealed that, you could potentially see a scene where people are having sex. Then, the age limit goes to 18+, and Jack Thompson has a holiday saying that sex is directly equivalent to violence, and soldiers like to rape because of it. I mean, wow, a full year's difference between 17 and 18. That saves an entire year's worth of children from learning the dirty dirty dirty secret of how babies are made. :D

I get no end to my amusement at the "warning labels".

[Oliver]

No, we are talking about game designers and production that will be relocating out of Germany if a new law passes. Your still focusing on one story in an entire website of complaints about Germanys attitude toward gamers.

But we expect that from you.

I was just reading that Crackdown and Gears of War couldn't be sold or advertised in Germany either, even online. You have to drive to Austria. I have both of those and I don't see them as even close to the ultra-violent category.


Honestly. I don't care if there is a rating-system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_content_rating_system) at all - as
long I can still buy everything I want as an adult. And yes,
I can do so in Germany - "under the counter" - and legally.

[Lonewulf]

Honestly. I don't care if there is a rating-system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_content_rating_system) at all - as
long I can still buy everything I want as an adult. And yes,
I can do so in Germany - "under the counter" - and legally.
Agreed.

Hey, here's a question, Gurdur. Let's say they ban ultraviolent games, but I go ahead and buy one anyways. let's say, from the black market. How many years in jail should I get? :D

[Tailgater]

Honestly. I don't care if there is a rating-system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_content_rating_system) at all - as
long I can still buy everything I want as an adult. And yes,
I can do so in Germany - "under the counter" - and legally.

MMkay. The titles you know of maybe. I know you won't be playing wolfenstein any time soon.:)

http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/01/17/euvidgames/index.php

The Commission also wants to harmonize national rules in the 27 countries in the Union. “Protection of children cannot have borders,” Frattini said. The Commission wants to see a combination of outright bans on the most violent games, together with minimum age rules on other titles.

The German government said it will conduct a study of all the different national rules concerning video games, with a view to setting Union-wide norms. Its initiative makes the prospect of a ban much more likely.

Video game violence became a hot political issue in Germany at the end of last year when 18-year-old Sebastian Bosse shot up a high school in Emsdetten, Germany, injuring 37 before fatally turning the gun on himself.

Police said Bosse spent most of his waking hours playing “Counter-Strike.”

The German government has proposed a national law banning games that depict violence toward human characters.

In addition to banning “Counter Strike,” the German bill under debate could outlaw popular movie franchise titles such as the “Star-Trek” series, “The Lord of the Rings,” “The Battle for Middle-earth II” and “Scarface: The World Is Yours.”

[Oliver]

MMkay

http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/01/17/euvidgames/index.php


So? That doesn't affect anyone above 18 - not at all. And I might
add - we sell sex toys all over Germany as well. :p (just kidding)

[Lonewulf]

The German government said it will conduct a study of all the different national rules concerning video games, with a view to setting Union-wide norms. Its initiative makes the prospect of a ban much more likely.

Video game violence became a hot political issue in Germany at the end of last year when 18-year-old Sebastian Bosse shot up a high school in Emsdetten, Germany, injuring 37 before fatally turning the gun on himself.

Police said Bosse spent most of his waking hours playing “Counter-Strike.”

Nothing surprising. Kid shoots up school, blame Counter-Strike, Dungeons and Dragons, or <insert your hated form of entertainment here>. Ignore the other 99.999999999% other people that *don't* turn violent from such forms of media, and ignore the fact that people can be just as violent *without* those forms of media.

The German government has proposed a national law banning games that depict violence toward human characters.

In addition to banning “Counter Strike,” the German bill under debate could outlaw popular movie franchise titles such as the “Star-Trek” series, “The Lord of the Rings,” “The Battle for Middle-earth II” and “Scarface: The World Is Yours.”

Darn that evil Star Trek for breeding a new generation of urban warriors! Darn them! *Cries*

[WildCat]

So? That doesn't affect anyone above 18 - not at all.
Are you lying, or is your reading comprehension really that poor?
The Commission wants to see a combination of outright bans on the most violent games, together with minimum age rules on other titles.

[Lonewulf]

So? That doesn't affect anyone above 18 - not at all.
Evidence...?

[Tailgater]

Are you lying, or is your reading comprehension really that poor?

I think it's called "selective reading".

[Wheezebucket]

Hell, I remember Germany banning Turok the Dinosaur Hunter for the Nintendo 64 way back in the day.

[Oliver]

Hell, I remember Germany banning Turok the Dinosaur Hunter for the Nintendo 64 way back in the day.


I remember the swastikas being removed in Castle Wolfenstein.
Pretty strange censorship for a Nazi Regime. :p

[Lonewulf]

I remember the swastikas being removed in Castle Wolfenstein.

And this doesn't strike you as odd/amusing/silly?

[Tailgater]

Is laser tag banned in Germany too? I've read articles about it, but they are either from pre-2004 or in German.


So you think you can get these games eh Oliver?

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3163187

[dudalb]

And this doesn't strike you as odd/amusing/silly?

Nope. Germany is a big video game market,and why create problems when it is not necessary.
BTW this is nothing new. Avalon Hill..remember them,you old time cardboard and paper wargamers out there...was careful not to use Swastikas in the graphics for it's WW2 in Europe games counters from the 1970's on because Germany was a huge market for them. The less contorversial German Cross emblem used in WW2 was used instead.

[Lonewulf]

Nope. Germany is a big video game market,and why create problems when it is not necessary.
So it doesn't strike you as odd, amusing, or silly to "leave off" the Swastikas on Nazis...


...In a videogame...

...Where you shoot said Swastika-less individuals, which you subsequently feel good about since the Nazis were the Bad Guys (tm)?

:shocked:

All in the name of satiating an easily-offended public, I'm sure. Emotion > Logic :rolleyes:

[dudalb]

So it doesn't strike you as odd, amusing, or silly to "leave off" the Swastikas on Nazis...


...In a videogame...

...Where you shoot said Swastika-less individuals, which you subsequently feel good about since the Nazis were the Bad Guys (tm)?

:shocked:

All in the name of satiating an easily-offended public, I'm sure. Emotion > Logic :rolleyes:

Hey I am not saying it is logical,I am saying it is smart business to avoid legal problems with a game in a major market.
You do understand the purpose of a gaming company is to make a profit,don;t you?

[Lonewulf]

Hey I am not saying it is logical,I am saying it is smart business to avoid legal problems with a game in a major market.
Legal problems? What legal problems would there be? Thanks to the usual Fair Use clauses, I highly doubt that it would include Copyright issues... and then there's the fact that, in your example, they replaced one symbol with another.

If there's a law banning any display of the Swastika, I would oppose such a law vehemently. I don't blame the company for acquiescing to such a law, surely, but then my ridicule move away from the decision to remove the swastika, and towards saying how ridiculous such a law is.

I can see where there might be public-based problems, such as protesters and people that don't like them, but read what I say after the following quote.

You do understand the purpose of a gaming company is to make a profit,don;t you?
I'd be honestly surprised if many people would say, "I decided that I don't want to play Castle Wolfenstein. I prefer my enemies to NOT have Swastikas before I gun them down."

[Oliver]

And this doesn't strike you as odd/amusing/silly?


It did strike me this way. But it didn't spoil all the fun to kill
the Nazis in Wolfenstein. It could've been more silly if there were
*Beeeeeeps* or Asteriks whenever the word Nazi appears. :p

[Lonewulf]

It did strike me this way. But it didn't spoil all the fun to kill
the Nazis in Wolfenstein. It could've been more silly if there were
*Beeeeeeps* or Asteriks whenever the word Nazi appears. :p
As far as I'm concerned, it's practically the same thing. :boggled:

[Tailgater]

http://gamernode.com/News/4373-Stranglehold-banned-in-Germany/index.html

http://gamepolitics.com/2007/09/25/jericho-denied-rating-in-germany/

Next in line is Mario Brothers for cruelty to turtles.

[Lonewulf]

Well, hey, they're only looking out for us, like a proper government should. Part of looking out for us is deciding what we can and cannot play, view, touch, or interact with! Right?

For the common good!

[Darth Rotor]

Well, hey, they're only looking out for us, like a proper government should. Part of looking out for us is deciding what we can and cannot play, view, touch, or interact with! Right?

For the common good!

So long as you certify that you only read the articles in Plaboy, the authorities won't pester you. :eek:

Just sign here . . . :p

DR

[Lonewulf]

So long as you certify that you only read the articles in Plaboy, the authorities won't pester you. :eek:

Just sign here . . . :p

DR

:boxedin:

That Playboy wouldn't break the "Obscenity" laws, would it?

(Does Germany have the equivalent to the U.S. obscenity laws?)