Religious Tolerance in America

[Puppycow]

God Bless the USA! :usa:
http://www.linkinn.com/userfiles/Image/dear-articles-2.jpg

[schlitt]

God Bless the USA! :usa:
http://www.linkinn.com/userfiles/Image/dear-articles-2.jpg

last paradoxical line is hillarious.
fairly scary stuff though....

[quixotecoyote]

Given that letter and the first line of the one below it, their readership area must be a scary place.

[Puppycow]

Given that letter and the first line of the one below it, their readership area must be a scary place.

Hmm. Not sure what the second one goes on to say, but it does look a little ominous. (Until all the fish are gone? Somehow I doubt that's fishermen would really want. Maybe it was meant sarcastically.)

[quixotecoyote]

Hmm. Not sure what the second one goes on to say, but it does look a little ominous. (Until all the fish are gone? Somehow I doubt that's fishermen would really want. Maybe it was meant sarcastically.)


The mental image I get of a community of atheist killers is not really that of eco-friendly tree huggers.

But that's just my prejudice I suppose.

[H3LL]

Deleted because it's a spoof.

<Beats self for not checking as Fran did>

.

[-Fran-]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/atheists.asp

Snopes has an article up on this one. Apparently it's a hoax of some sorts, but Snopes still say about it, that judging from the many mails they have gotten with the same sentiment, it still reflects the genuine opinion of many people.

[grayman]

These types of letters are always guaranteed to get a comment (http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2007/04/15/editorial/letters/a81c413536add4fe872572bd007aeafa.txt) or two (http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2006/09/11/editorial/letters/227ab7eb72ac13dc872571e50066815f.txt) for the newspaper, and increase the readership in the process.

[Foster Zygote]

I find that if you replace "atheist" with "Jew" and "God" with "Jesus" it still comes off about the same. It's hate speech resulting from stupidity. I was born here. This is my country too and Alice Shannon of Soldotna can bite me.

What paper was this in BTW? If it had been a rant against Jews or African Americans or Latinos would the paper in question have printed it?

ETA: Spoof eh? Should have read further. This one may be a spoof but I can assure you that this sort of sentiment is all too common in my experience.

[-Fran-]

ETA: Spoof eh? Should have read further. This one may be a spoof but I can assure you that this sort of sentiment is all too common in my experience.


Yeah, Snopes said much the same thing. It might as well have been real, I guess, for all of the people who really do have these opinions.

[Foster Zygote]

Yeah, Snopes said much the same thing. It might as well have been real, I guess, for all of the people who really do have these opinions.

I had what started out as a friendly conversation with a woman while I was waiting to pay for a set of guitar strings in a music shop near Bob Jones University. It was pretty casual, centering around how long we'd lived in the area for the most part. Then she asked "What church do you go to?".
I answered "I don't".
"Why not?"
"Well I'm an atheist."
Her expression hardened rather suddenly and, taking her merchandise, she said "You people should all be locked up" and left. I was stunned. After I paid for the strings the lady behind the counter said "Well I'm a Baptist and I think what she just said to you was appalling. I think you are a nice young man and you are welcome back here anytime". I thanked her for her kind words and assured her that I would gladly return with my business in the future.

[fishbob]

Given that letter and the first line of the one below it, their readership area must be a scary place.

Soldotna is just one of many quaint Alaskan drinking villages with serious fishing problems (according to the bumper stickers). Probably due to the long winters and rampant alcoholism, practical joking is a major pastime. Probably for the same reason, there are more than a few rabid drooling fundies on the loose in these same areas.

[-Fran-]

I had what started out as a friendly conversation with a woman while I was waiting to pay for a set of guitar strings in a music shop near Bob Jones University. It was pretty casual, centering around how long we'd lived in the area for the most part. Then she asked "What church do you go to?".
I answered "I don't".
"Why not?"
"Well I'm an atheist."
Her expression hardened rather suddenly and, taking her merchandise, she said "You people should all be locked up" and left. I was stunned. After I paid for the strings the lady behind the counter said "Well I'm a Baptist and I think what she just said to you was appalling. I think you are a nice young man and you are welcome back here anytime". I thanked her for her kind words and assured her that I would gladly return with my business in the future.

Two good examples. One of a fundie idiot, who thinks that just because she thinks she is right she can be rude to people. And one of a person who can be a believer and still be tolerant of other people who's not.

-----o0o-----

More than ten years ago I met a man from USA being in Sweden for a shorter period to work. That was my first, and so far only, meeting with a real fundamental Christian nut, creationist, bigotted, intolerant idiot. I seriously believed he was mentally ill. He talked about evolution being a conspiracy, dinosaur bones being planted, me celebrating death and evilness becuase of my tattoo depicting a bird skeleton, him being saved by god to a new moral and rigtheous life while he got drunk and tried to get my friend into bed (he was married), and how he personally would enjoy putting all lesbians and gays on a boat and exile them from America... and so on, and so on... Sure I had met religious nuts and gay-bashing idiots before, but I had not run into quite this combination of fundamental Christianity, hatemonger and total ignorance before.

A few years later I got a PC, got on-line and went. "What? There are more of them??"

[plumjam]

I had what started out as a friendly conversation with a woman while I was waiting to pay for a set of guitar strings in a music shop near Bob Jones University. It was pretty casual, centering around how long we'd lived in the area for the most part. Then she asked "What church do you go to?".
I answered "I don't".
"Why not?"
"Well I'm an atheist."
Her expression hardened rather suddenly and, taking her merchandise, she said "You people should all be locked up" and left. I was stunned. After I paid for the strings the lady behind the counter said "Well I'm a Baptist and I think what she just said to you was appalling. I think you are a nice young man and you are welcome back here anytime". I thanked her for her kind words and assured her that I would gladly return with my business in the future.

Yikes.. pretty mean of her.
That would never happen here in the UK. I can see why Americans can get p****d off with religion.
Next time garrote the b**ch with the E string.

[plumjam]

More than ten years ago I met a man from USA being in Sweden for a shorter period to work. That was my first, and so far only, meeting with a real fundamental Christian nut, creationist, bigotted, intolerant idiot. I seriously believed he was mentally ill. He talked about evolution being a conspiracy, dinosaur bones being planted, me celebrating death and evilness becuase of my tattoo depicting a bird skeleton, him being saved by god to a new moral and rigtheous life while he got drunk and tried to get my friend into bed (he was married), and how he personally would enjoy putting all lesbians and gays on a boat and exile them from America... and so on, and so on... Sure I had met religious nuts and gay-bashing idiots before, but I had not run into quite this combination of fundamental Christianity, hatemonger and total ignorance before.

You're sure he wasn't just playing hard to get?

[-Fran-]

You're sure he wasn't just playing hard to get?

Oh yes, that must have been it!! :)

[Foster Zygote]

Yikes.. pretty mean of her.
That would never happen here in the UK.
No. I'm sure it wouldn't. It would never, never, never, never happen in the United Kingdom. Never.

I can see why Americans can get p****d off with religion.
Next time garrote the b**ch with the E string.
Just like no one in the UK could ever be really appallingly bad at humor. Never, never, never.

[Charlie Monoxide]

I'm currently listening to "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War On America
by Chris Hedges" book on CD.

The author asks (paraphrasing) "should we be tolerant of intolerant people?" The author responds with an emphatic "No!"

Canada has basically the same freedom of speech that the US is so proud of with this one major provision: You cannot promote hate against an identifiable group. People like Phelps and a few right-wing talk show hosts would have problems in Canada. I kinda like that ...

Charlie (hate the haters) Monoxide

[arthwollipot]

It's been my experience that here in Australia that sort of thing is a whole lot less common. Here in Canberra, it's the bible-bashers that get the funny looks.

On the other hand, there is Fred Nile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Nile).

[YouBelieveWHAT?]

Surely a "G" string would be more appropriate?

[KingMerv00]

I kinda like that ...


I don't like it like that. So you hate an identifiable group...so what? Hate is legal and its expression should be legal too.

Besides, the wackos will marginalize themselves if you let them spout nonsense.

[Tanstaafl]

On the other hand, there is Fred Nile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Nile).


In the U.S., he'd be a mainstream Republican.

[Andronicus]

In the U.S., he'd be a mainstream Republican.

The Fundamentalist Christian Conservative/Rebuplican marriage seems to be breaking down somewhat, after a quarter of a century, thankfully. And in the Deep South, I think a lot of old school Democrats would be just as likely to agree with the letter to the editor as the Republicans.

[technoextreme]

People like Phelps and a few right-wing talk show hosts would have problems in Canada. I kinda like that ...
Phelps has problems in the United States let alone Canada. He's pretty much universally hated on both sides of the spectrum. So much so that there were laws that people tried to pass specifically aimed at him.Canada has basically the same freedom of speech that the US is so proud of with this one major provision: You cannot promote hate against an identifiable group
That isn't freedom of speech though. We are proud of it because there aren't any idiotic cavets like the above.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

More than ten years ago I met a man from USA being in Sweden for a shorter period to work. That was my first, and so far only, meeting with a real fundamental Christian nut, creationist, bigotted, intolerant idiot. I seriously believed he was mentally ill. He talked about evolution being a conspiracy, dinosaur bones being planted, me celebrating death and evilness becuase of my tattoo depicting a bird skeleton, him being saved by god to a new moral and rigtheous life while he got drunk and tried to get my friend into bed (he was married), and how he personally would enjoy putting all lesbians and gays on a boat and exile them from America... and so on, and so on... Sure I had met religious nuts and gay-bashing idiots before, but I had not run into quite this combination of fundamental Christianity, hatemonger and total ignorance before.

A few years later I got a PC, got on-line and went. "What? There are more of them??"


I read that...and I blushed and cringed so hard, it hurt my face.

I'm embarrassed to be sharing a country with people who go over to other countries and do...that. :boxedin:

I have to say though that I never meet people like that. Ever. I meet average variety gay bashers, religious nuts and bigots, yes, but they have enough shame and sense to be open bigots and idiots in private. If you know what I mean.

That breed of American idiot I have never encountered personally, even though I know there are people like that...I guess it's only you that's so lucky!

Were was he from, if you still remember?

[-Fran-]

I read that...and I blushed and cringed so hard, it hurt my face.

I'm embarrassed to be sharing a country with people who go over to other countries and do...that. :boxedin:

I have to say though that I never meet people like that. Ever. I meet average variety gay bashers, religious nuts and bigots, yes, but they have enough shame and sense to be open bigots and idiots in private. If you know what I mean.

That breed of American idiot I have never encountered personally, even though I know there are people like that...I guess it's only you that's so lucky!

Were was he from, if you still remember?

Don't know if I would call that luck :D

Well, even though I, at that time, had never heard of people having views and beliefs like that before (in that "nice" combination) in a western society, it can now sometimes be easy to draw the conclusion that the USA is overrun by them.

But I have met many enough quite normal, intelligent, tolerant and plain nice :) Americans both on-line and in reality to know that that sort of fundie is still a minority even though they make noise. And I guess if you looked for it you could find such people in all secular western countries. It's not like we don't have nuts of our own here in Sweden (and some quite nasty ones too). But that special combination seems to be mostly an American thing (at least in some parts of the country)??

And even if it is a minority still, there's too many of them to just dismiss them one might think. I was really surprised to learn later that it is a movement at all, even if it's marginalized. Back then I thought for sure I had just run into a single individual of a certain special madness :D

I don't remember exactly where he was from, but it was down south somewhere.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I'm glad you think so :).

You know, I'd say that even among Christian conservatives and possibly even among Christian evangelicals/ fundamentalists that type of hate-monger fundamentalist is a rarity.

My father is a conservative and ex-long time Republican (he left the party because of Bush) and a Catholic and he says that he finds these confusing-politics-with-religion, Intelligent Deisgn, 6000-year-old Earth, hate-mongering American fundies borderline insane.

What I find absolutely amazing about these people, as an ex-Catholic, is how hate-mongering their religion is. It's not like the gay-bashing and politics are an outgrowth of religion- they are their religion.

Take me. I have almost never heard a priest talking about homosexuality in church. I never heard a Catholic priest even condemning until I was almost 17. They were too busy talking about Jesus.

These people though- their kids first find out what abortion and homosexuality are from church.

[Foster Zygote]

I'm glad you think so :).

You know, I'd say that even among Christian conservatives and possibly even among Christian evangelicals/ fundamentalists that type of hate-monger fundamentalist is a rarity.

My father is a conservative and ex-long time Republican (he left the party because of Bush) and a Catholic and he says that he finds these confusing-politics-with-religion, Intelligent Deisgn, 6000-year-old Earth, hate-mongering American fundies borderline insane.

What I find absolutely amazing about these people, as an ex-Catholic, is how hate-mongering their religion is. It's not like the gay-bashing and politics are an outgrowth of religion- they are their religion.

Take me. I have almost never heard a priest talking about homosexuality in church. I never heard a Catholic priest even condemning until I was almost 17. They were too busy talking about Jesus.

These people though- their kids first find out what abortion and homosexuality are from church.

Last year I started a thread about something I heard in a homily while I happened to be at a Catholic mass. I can't be arsed to look up the thread right now so I'll just recount it.

The priest was speaking about homosexuality. He wasn't railing hatefully, but it was clear that he was condemning it as wrong. He asked "What if everyone in the world decided to become homosexual and the human race just died out?". I was certainly amused by the irony of someone who'd taken a vow of celibacy warning of the dangers of people who don't reproduce. Even taking into account the fact that homosexuals can and do have children. Hell they don't even have to have sex. I wanted to stand up and ask, in the same "groovin' on my own words" voice he'd used "What if everyone in the world decided to join the Catholic clergy and take a vow of celibacy and the human race just died out?".

[UnrepentantSinner]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/atheists.asp

Snopes has an article up on this one. Apparently it's a hoax of some sorts, but Snopes still say about it, that judging from the many mails they have gotten with the same sentiment, it still reflects the genuine opinion of many people.

Interesting. After this thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=75248&highlight=clarion) was posted back in February, I actually signed up so I could read back letters. I finally got around to sending one via e-mail, but I guess it was after Ms. Shannon's hoax had been exposed.

Also interesting, if the letters printed/posted were representative, I'd say the snopes conclusion is a bit off base as most of the letter writers seemed to be supportive of religious tolerance and freedom... even for atheists.

[Henners]

Yikes.. pretty mean of her.
That would never happen here in the UK. I can see why Americans can get p****d off with religion.
Next time garrote the b**ch with the E string.

What a sheltered upbringing you must have.

I have just listened to a fundie nutcase extolling the virtues of the Old Testament (his capitals, not mine) on BBC Radio 4 (paid for, in part, by me and, presumably, you) and telling me that evolution is random chance and Intelligent Design is real.

The beeb didn't broadcast a disclaimer, either. So I'm assuming that it's official.:jaw-dropp