Homeopathic poisons?

[Alex DeLarge]

Has anyone ever thought of making a homeopathic poison? I assume you would just have to take some substance that's good for you in large doses and dilute it down to nothing, right?
It would be the perfect poison, no taste, no smell, completely undetectable, indistinguishable from plain water.

[Bikewer]

I believe that a variety of skeptics have made hay with this idea, downing "fatal' doses of (properly diluted) substances in public.
According to the homeopaths, they should have all croaked on the instant....

[fls]

Has anyone ever thought of making a homeopathic poison? I assume you would just have to take some substance that's good for you in large doses and dilute it down to nothing, right?
It would be the perfect poison, no taste, no smell, completely undetectable, indistinguishable from plain water.

I wrote a post a few months ago describing how I discovered that I was poisoning myself on my morning run. I started carrying water with me when I lengthened my runs during the summer. I noticed that I was more tired after these runs and realized that by carrying the water bottle in my hand, I was inadvertently succussing the water with the air in the bottle. Since air is good for you, I was essentially poisoning myself.

Linda

[Jaggy Bunnet]

I believe that a variety of skeptics have made hay with this idea, downing "fatal' doses of (properly diluted) substances in public.
According to the homeopaths, they should have all croaked on the instant....

Not quite the same thing.

What the OP talks about is following a different bit of homeopathic "logic" - treat the symptoms - but with a positive "symptom". For example the "symptom" could be oxygen being absorbed by the lungs. If you then take oxygen and do the dilution thing, the resultant remedy should "treat the symptom" by preventing air being absorbed.

Which is why it is so dangerous for fls to drink from her bottle of water while running.

[Rolfe]

I believe that a variety of skeptics have made hay with this idea, downing "fatal' doses of (properly diluted) substances in public.
According to the homeopaths, they should have all croaked on the instant....


Actually, according to the homoeopaths, no such thing.

Some of these demonstrations were done with homoeopathic sleeping potions. The homoeopaths merely stated that such preparations are not supposed to make anyone and everyone sleepy when they take them. They're supposed to treat insomnia. So, if you don't have insomnia then nothing will happen (surely you should "prove" the remedy in that case? - ed.), and if you do then all that will happen is that you'll get a good night's sleep.

The second excuse ( the sceptics took a LOT of the potion) is that a dose is a dose, no matter how much you take at one time. So taking more will not amplify the effect.

The idea that something which is good for you will be bad for you in a homoeopathic preparation just dosn't exist in homoeopathy. So the basic idea is a non-starter.

What does tend to happen is that anything at all which happens after taking a remedy is held to be caused by the remedy - according to some, up to and including being hit by a bus, or hearing lots of news about shipwrecks (yes, really). This is particularly relevant during proving trials. So according to this school of thought, homoeopathic remedies can cause quite a bit of harm. However, I've never heard actual death being included in that category - that's usually because you didn't get the right remedy, or you didn't come to the homoeopath quickly enough, or it's because of all that allopathic medicine you took in the past, vaccinations and so on.

It's quite fun to confront the declarations that homoeopathy is absolutely harmless with the documentation of this school of thought.

Actually, I saw a book review of a veterinary homoeopathy book which declared that the book contained information about homoeopathic euthanasia. Which boggles my mind more than a bit. However, I suspect that if one got hold of the actual book, it would be something wet about "easing the passing".

Rolfe.

[tsg]

The second excuse ( the sceptics took a LOT of the potion) is that a dose is a dose, no matter how much you take at one time. So taking more will not amplify the effect.

Couldn't that go the other way as well? Taking none of it won't reduce the effect?

Wouldn't that then imply that taking homeopathic remedies is as effective as taking nothing?

[Rolfe]

You see, the mistake you're making is imagining that any of it is supposed to make any sense.

Rolfe.

[tsg]

I was hoping I could cure it with very dilute nonsense.

[JoeTheJuggler]

You see, the mistake you're making is imagining that any of it is supposed to make any sense.


A chronic problem I have too. For instance, you mention the homeopathic sleep inducer that Randi has downed before, which is called Calms Forte--and that stuff doesn't make sense at all by homeopathic "logic". Here's what's in it (and its indications):

Passiflora 1X Triple Strength - for restless or wakeful sleep from exhaustion

Avena Sativa 1X Double Strength - for stress, nervousness or nervous headache

Humulus Lupulus 1X Double Strength - for drowsiness with incomplete sleep

Chamomilla 2X (Chamomile) - for nervous irritability

And the following biochemic phosphates for enhancing cellular function:
Calcarea Phosphorica 3X HPUS, Ferrum Phosphoricum 3X HPUS, Kali Phosphoricum 3X HPUS, Natrum Phosphoricum 3X HPUS, Magnesia Phosphoricum 3X HPUS
Reference (http://www.hylands.com/products/calmsforte.php).

I don't know about the "biochemic phosphates" but the other ingredients are all herbals (Passion Flower, Oatmeal, Hops and Chamomile) that are supposed to induce sleep in real quantities. Granted, these are relatively strong as homeopathics go, but this stuff is still either an absurd homeopathic remedy or a really weak herbal medicine.

By the way, the explanations of the ingredients as worded here also fail to make sense. Does "for drowsiness and incomplete sleep" mean it makes you drowsy, or is it something you should take when you feel drowsy but want to be alert? I have to assume no one ever wants to have "nervous irratibility" so I guess it means you take this stuff to alleviate that.

And what the heck is "wakeful sleep"? I guess they mean when you keep waking up, but then it isn't really sleep, is it? (If I meant that, I'd say something like "for interrupted sleep" or--if you mean this is what the remedy should provide, "for uninterrupted sleep".)

[genesplicer]

What about making a homeopathic dilution of plant fertilizer? I have toyed with the idea of trying this with my students, but I have not found enough to determine if this would be supported by homeopathic practitioners...

[bruto]

What about making a homeopathic dilution of plant fertilizer? I have toyed with the idea of trying this with my students, but I have not found enough to determine if this would be supported by homeopathic practitioners...

Try some of this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodynamic_agriculture)