StopKaz - Another Kaz-like 9/11 Fraudster

[RSLancastr]

I rarely get any emails on the StopKaz site any more, as she has been laying low for more than a year.

But yesterday and today I received several emails pointing me to this article in the NY Times about another woman claiming to have survived the attack on the World Trade Center:

A Tale of 9/11 Survival, but the Pieces Don't Fit (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/27/nyregion/27survivor.html?ex=1348545600&en=b43f759d9f878a8d&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)

Her account is very similar to Kaz's, minus the religious overtones, such as the Rock From Jesus.

Kudos the the NY Times.

[Miss Whiplash]

I saw that yesterday as well. Kaz certainly came to mind.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I'm sure I've heard of her before, as a 9/11 survivor. It's entirely possible.

It's pretty unlikely but could she be a copycat?

[timhau]

There's a thread about this (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=94470) in the Conspiracy Theory forum.

[LibraryLady]

There have also been cases of people claiming to be Holocaust survivors who were not. It sounds like this is more an attention seeking situation than a financial scam.

How sad for the people who believed her.

[RSL's better half]

There have also been cases of people claiming to be Holocaust survivors who were not. It sounds like this is more an attention seeking situation than a financial scam.

How sad for the people who believed her.

How sad for Ms. Head! Is this the only way she could gain attention - to lie? And lie some more, and lie some more . . . and so on. Very sad, indeed.

[RSLancastr]

Well, I'm glad that the NY Times uncovered the story.

I wouldn't want to create a site called www.StopHead.com.

I just wouldn't, that's all.

[Gravy]

Well, I'm glad that the NY Times uncovered the story.

I wouldn't want to create a site called www.StopHead.com (http://www.StopHead.com).

I just wouldn't, that's all.As September draws to a close, this is now the funniest forum quote of the month. We really need a separate award for this stuff.

[Locknar]

How sad for Ms. Head! Is this the only way she could gain attention - to lie? And lie some more, and lie some more . . . and so on. Very sad, indeed.

Speaking as someone who was actually directly involved in 9/11 (Pentagon)...I have a very hard time feeling sad for such a fraud.

Conduct like hers dishonors all that were involved. I'd elaborate, but forum rules prohibit the language I'd be likely to use.

[LibraryLady]

Speaking as someone who was actually directly involved in 9/11 (Pentagon)...I have a very hard time feeling sad for such a fraud.

Conduct like hers dishonors all that were involved. I'd elaborate, but forum rules prohibit the language I'd be likely to use.

I honestly feel she is more to be pitied than scorned, especially if it turns out there has been no financial fraud. As RSL says, anyone that desperate for attention...

[Locknar]

I honestly feel she is more to be pitied than scorned, especially if it turns out there has been no financial fraud. As RSL says, anyone that desperate for attention...

Granted I am not the most objective person on this issue; obviously we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I'd be alot less forgiving than Susan because I think it's still victimizing the real survivors and families and friends of the deceased, even if she didn't take any money for it and was just doing it for the attention.

She cheapened and betrayed the trust and sympathy of everyone who heard her story and felt for her, the same way people pretending to be cancer patients and war vets do.

[RSLancastr]

As RSL says, anyone that desperate for attention...Just to set the record straing, RSL didn't say it. RSL's Better Half did.

[Locknar]

Just to set the record straing, RSL didn't say it. RSL's Better Half did.

But your married now and thus interchangeable :) Ok, a poor attempt at humor there.

Back on topic....

I obviously do not have a corner on being impacted by 9/11. While I was there, I'd argue that everyone that watched the events unfold on live tv coverage was in some way impacted. For those that want to pitty or otherwise feel sad for this person, I respect your opinion.

That said, in my opinion this persons conduct is abysmal; monetary considerations are secondary. In the end, she got what she wanted...attention, paid for by those that were there (and died). This was not a victim-less "crime", but a cold, calculated attack on peoples trust and the memories of loved ones lost.

"Pitty"...save that for someone that actually deserves it; not this waste of humanity.

Much as the line from "The Princess Bride", ala "to the pain"; may she lead a long life, to wallow in the pain and misery she has selfishly and deliberately inflected on others through her actions. I realize that sounds harsh...but that really does not begin to scratch the surface...from someone who is admittedly less then objective on this issue.

ETA: Excellent job by the NY Times.

[RSL's better half]

I do not condone what the woman did. I agree that it "dishonors all that were involved." Still, to go to this length for attention is sad. Who can say why a person would do something like this? Yet, all the good works she did while duping everyone around her do not in any way negate the dishonor to those innocents who lost their lives, and the families she thought she was helping. Wonder how those pompus politicians are feeling now . . .

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I don't know about you but I'm shocked that no one caught onto her before, with her meeting Giuliani and Bloomberg and visiting college campuses and support groups and being feaured in The Daily News and Time. This wasn't a con artist hiding and sneaking around from place to place and shying from the spotlight- she was conning right in the open, very publicly.

She was at Ground Zero every day for years saying this stuff and not one person, including the reporters writing material about her, which implies researching her, thought to ask a simple question like what hospital she stayed in?

I guess this shows several things. One, she got away with it by coasting on the special sort of respect and reverence a player in a major world event and a victim of evil is given. Someone tells you they survived 9/11, you are filled with nothing but respect and don't so much as think of questioning them. As a matter of fact, it even makes you feel special to know them.

Two, someone in the public eye is immediatly seen as legitimate. It wouldn't enter anyone's mind that someone at Ground Zero everyday, hired by a legitimate organization, who's story is in the paper and who's shaking hands with the mayor would be anything except real.

[RSL's better half]

Had Robert known about her, he'd have asked questions. Even if he believed and respected her, he'd have asked - just out of curiosity. (It's what he does.) I don't get why nobody was curious enough.

[LibraryLady]

I do not condone what the woman did. I agree that it "dishonors all that were involved." Still, to go to this length for attention is sad. Who can say why a person would do something like this? Yet, all the good works she did while duping everyone around her do not in any way negate the dishonor to those innocents who lost their lives, and the families she thought she was helping. Wonder how those pompus politicians are feeling now . . .

This is what I'm saying too. I also think that this woman probably need some sort of treatment, in addition to--not in lieu of--jail time.

We really can't tolerate this behavior. Not only does it dishonor those who have really suffered, it gives ammunition to the Conspiracy Theorists.

Nevertheless, I do have some pity for her, if it is mental illness. Maybe it's a girl thing.

[The Bad Astronomer]

She was at Ground Zero every day for years saying this stuff and not one person, including the reporters writing material about her, which implies researching her


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Reporters these days, doing research? HAHAHAHAHAHA!

(wipes away tear) Oh man, that's funny. Good one.

[CFLarsen]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Reporters these days, doing research? HAHAHAHAHAHA!

(wipes away tear) Oh man, that's funny. Good one.

Why do research when you got Wikipedia?

....hmmm?? ;)

[Roadtoad]

Just heard about this in watching a report on WCBS. Creepy broad, this Tania Head.

Then there's Scott Shields... (http://http://www.scottshieldsfraud.com/)

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

You know what, since no one and I mean no one else is going to do this, you know what I'm going to do?

Yes, I'm going to defend reporters.

Newpapers do not have ethics and standards and teams of fact checkers for nothing. They know that their reader's trust is the only currency they have and that once betrayed, it can never be taken back. In the journalistic profession, the worst possible thing that can happen to an outlet or a reporter is sloppy reporting, plagarism or lying, even if it's about something completely harmless.

As a matter of fact, that's how this story broke! A reporter did research Tania Head when writing about her.

Ok, now you can eat me alive.

[LibraryLady]

You know what, since no one and I mean no one else is going to do this, you know what I'm going to do?

Yes, I'm going to defend reporters.

Newpapers do not have ethics and standards and teams of fact checkers for nothing. They know that their reader's trust is the only currency they have and that once betrayed, it can never be taken back. In the journalistic profession, the worst possible thing that can happen to an outlet or a reporter is sloppy reporting, plagarism or lying, even if it's about something completely harmless.

As a matter of fact, that's how this story broke! A reporter did research Tania Head when writing about her.

Ok, now you can eat me alive.

Not me. I've helped reporters do their research. In my department it's usually theater stuff, but in other departments, they do more serious stuff.

But I'm sure you would have been yummy.

[RSLancastr]

As a matter of fact, that's how this story broke! A reporter did research Tania Head when writing about her.Yes Eeney, but how many other reporters for how many publications had done credulous stories about her prior to that? Pointing to the one reporter who (apparently) finally got it right is no defense of reporters in general.

[Ersby]

Actually I was looking at the StopKaz site last week, and it was kind of difficult to work out the current state of play. Since the site's activity had diminished, perhaps some kind of conclusion could be posted?

[geni]

Why do research when you got Wikipedia?

....hmmm?? ;)

Because it will be against company policy.

[Mercutio]

Yes Eeney, but how many other reporters for how many publications had done credulous stories about her prior to that? Pointing to the one reporter who (apparently) finally got it right is no defense of reporters in general.

Um... actually, how many others did do stories on her? Seriously, I have no idea--a handful? Dozens? More?

Anyone know?

[geni]

Um... actually, how many others did do stories on her? Seriously, I have no idea--a handful? Dozens? More?

Anyone know?

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040906-689463,00.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2006/09/07/2006-09-07_an_amazing_woman__her_smile.html

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Well, as a matter of fact, I can find out.

Let's see. The Michael Daly article. The Time article that mentioned her in passing. A Newsday article about Welles Crowther's memorial that mentions her in passing. A Daily News article about Ground Zero tours that included a photo of her with Rudy. A US Fed News (?) article about the launch of the volunteer guide program that mentions her as a survivor. Two blogs that talk about her.

But here's the good news: there are over 100 articles and braodcasts exposing her, from the Spanish-language press in America to an article in the French press to the Sky News report. "Tania Head" brings up a handful of stories about her as a survivor and dozens about her as a fraud.

What would we do without Lex-Nex fu? :)

[Mercutio]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040906-689463,00.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2006/09/07/2006-09-07_an_amazing_woman__her_smile.html

The second, especially... wow.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Ah, there's also a "Press Association Newsfile" article about her that's also pretty "wow".

WORKER'S TOWER ESCAPE SECONDS BEFORE COLLAPSE (http://www.lexisnexis.com.proxy.wexler.hunter.cuny.edu/us/lnacademic/results/docview/docview.do?risb=21_T2155608553&format=GNBFI&sort=RELEVANCE&startDocNo=26&resultsUrlKey=29_T2155608556&cisb=22_T2155608555&treeMax=true&treeWidth=0&csi=8170&docNo=41)
Press Association Newsfile, September 4, 2006 Monday 2:52 AM BST, HOME NEWS, 756 words, Rachel Williams, PA, in New York

http://www.lexisnexis.com.proxy.wexler.hunter.cuny.edu/us/lnacademic/results/docview/docview.do?risb=21_T2155608553&format=GNBFI&sort=RELEVANCE&startDocNo=26&resultsUrlKey=29_T2155608556&cisb=22_T2155608555&treeMax=true&treeWidth=0&csi=8170&docNo=41

Tania Head worked for an investment bank in the south tower of the World Trade Centre.

Her husband, Dave, worked on the 100th floor of the north tower and would have been killed instantly when the first plane hit.

Tania was badly burned when her building was struck, but managed to escape only seconds before it collapsed.

She and Dave, who was 27 when he died, had just got married in Hawaii.``September 11 was a regular day,'' Tania says. ``It was such beautiful weather - it was still warm, the last days of summer.We arrived at about 7.30am and said goodbye, and 'I love you, I'll see you later'.Just before 8.30am Dave called me. He wanted to meet downstairs for a coffee, but I said I was too busy. I said 'I'll see you later'.That was the last time I spoke to him.''

Tania, 33, was in a meeting on the 96th floor when the first plane struck the other tower.

``We didn't feel anything,'' she remembers. ``But we started hearing all these screams coming from outside the door so we rushed out to the windows.

``It was like King Kong had come up and basically taken a chunk out of the north tower.

``Black smoke was billowing out into the blue sky.

``It was such a contrast, I'll never be able to forget it.

``I started counting down the floors. I could see the 100th floor was affected.

``I was becoming very, very nervous. I was praying that Dave had gone down to get that coffee.

``Everything changed when we started seeing people jump.

``That's when our boss said 'come on everybody, let's go'.''

But as they were walking downstairs, an announcement came over the loudspeaker system telling workers the south tower was secure and telling them to go back up to their floors.

``Even today that announcement gives me goosebumps,'' Tania says, despite understanding that it was made to try and protect them from the danger outside.I saw a lot of people go up the stairwells - those people aren't here today.''

Because she was now getting frantic about her husband, Tania continued going down and got to the 78th floor.

``Nobody thought there was another plane coming.

``That's when a woman who was standing near the windows started screaming: 'There's another plane coming'.''

``We thought, 'she's hysterical'.

``But then it became very, very loud. It was like being on the tarmac at an airport next to a plane that has it engines running.''

When the plane hit the south facade of the tower between the 77th and 88th floors, it killed all but 16 people in the Sky Lobby where Tania was.

``The first thing you feel is an enormous change in pressure, like the air is being sucked out of your lungs,'' she recalls.
``Then you find yourself flying through the air.
``I hit the marble wall. When I came to I was in terrible pain, like a million needles were sticking me at once. I realised that my back and my arm were burning. I couldn't stand.
``For I while I had heard people around me asking for help, moaning and screaming.

``But suddenly I realised that the room was becoming very, very quiet, and I said to myself, 'We're all dying'.
``I kept thinking about this beautiful white dress that I was going wear at the ceremony Dave and I were planning in October to celebrate our marriage. That's what gave me strength to get out of there.

``I managed to start crawling, over people who were burnt, who had lost body parts and blood. There were piles of people - it was pure carnage.''
Tania, a huge Sting fan, sang the singer's songs as loudly as she could to keep her going.

She made it to the stairwell where two men helped her down until they met a firefighter, who took her outside to the street. But the ordeal was far from over.
``Right after we got there we started hearing a rumbling.
``It was our tower collapsing.
``It took just 12 seconds to come down, and as it did there was a huge dust cloud.
``The firefighter pushed both of us underneath a fire truck.
``It was as if day had turned to night. You couldn't see anything.''

Tania woke up five days later in hospital.
Recovery workers only found a piece of her husband's thigh bone.
Five years on she says she is back to ``some sort of normal``, but the process has been hard.

``For me, and for New York, 9/11 was our worst day, and also our best day.
``Because that day the people here really shone through all the tragedy.''
She also believes the many charities set up by families have been a positive result of the attacks.
``It's not about the death and destruction for us any more,'' she says.
``We didn't have a choice on 9/11 - somebody took that choice for us.
``But we choose what we do with it now.''


Among other things- she claimed she was 33?!

[Locknar]

She is a total dirt bag

[Flo]

Conduct like hers dishonors all that were involved. I'd elaborate, but forum rules prohibit the language I'd be likely to use.

I do not condone what the woman did. I agree that it "dishonors all that were involved." Still, to go to this length for attention is sad. Who can say why a person would do something like this? Yet, all the good works she did while duping everyone around her do not in any way negate the dishonor to those innocents who lost their lives, and the families she thought she was helping. Wonder how those pompus politicians are feeling now . . .


However vile the behaviour of that woman (and it is vile !), I really don't see how it can impact the honor of innocent victims, survivors, and rescuers. Those will remain honourable, whatever others may do or say. The same is true of those who sincerely believed that woman's tales and were thus induced in taking part into good deeds: they have been victims, and their honor is IMO intact.

[Locknar]

However vile the behaviour of that woman (and it is vile !), I really don't see how it can impact the honor of innocent victims, survivors, and rescuers. Those will remain honourable, whatever others may do or say. The same is true of those who sincerely believed that woman's tales and were thus induced in taking part into good deeds: they have been victims, and their honor is IMO intact.

She violated peoples trust, and used the memories of those that were there, for personal gain (in this case attention). Scams and utter frauds such as this cheapen, or otherwise devalue, those that were there.

How many have had the momentary thought “sure he/she was…right….” when someone says “I was there”; in part that momentary doubt is fostered by such total frauds as this person and dishonors all that were there.

[Flo]

She violated peoples trust, and used the memories of those that were there, for personal gain (in this case attention). Scams and utter frauds such as this cheapen, or otherwise devalue, those that were there.

How many have had the momentary thought “sure he/she was…right….” when someone says “I was there”; in part that momentary doubt is fostered by such total frauds as this person and dishonors all that were there.

I'm sorry you feel that way. In my view, nothing and nobody can dishonor an innocent victim of a scam.

However, I understand that the worst part of such a behavior is to make the victims feel somewhat "guilty", and it is something I can't forgive.

[Locknar]

I'm sorry you feel that way. In my view, nothing and nobody can dishonor an innocent victim of a scam.

However, I understand that the worst part of such a behavior is to make the victims feel somewhat "guilty", and it is something I can't forgive.

Those that survived Pearl Harbor, or say CMH winners, feel the same way about imposters. I will not say the feeling is universal, but is it quite common.

While her conduct is loathsome and beneath contempt…any “guilt” comes from surviving in the first place, feeling you could have done more...and not from the actions of a fraud.

[chillzero]

However vile the behaviour of that woman (and it is vile !), I really don't see how it can impact the honor of innocent victims, survivors, and rescuers. Those will remain honourable, whatever others may do or say. The same is true of those who sincerely believed that woman's tales and were thus induced in taking part into good deeds: they have been victims, and their honor is IMO intact.

What happens is that people become jaded, and should a real victim present themselves as such for anything, may be met with not just skepticism - which would be fine - but outright hostility. People sometimes assume that one fraud in a certain setup means they should distrust all people in that setup. It's a mob mentality thing. :(

Imagine someone now from a victim organisation asking for funds in the street or door to door (I am not saying this is how they operate - just using an example). They may find now that people refuse to give them money, and may even insult them, or call them evil frauds, based on what they have picked up from the media about this one case.

And now that it is two such cases, makes it even harder, I am sure.

[Locknar]

What happens is that people become jaded, and should a real victim present themselves as such for anything, may be met with not just skepticism - which would be fine - but outright hostility. People sometimes assume that one fraud in a certain setup means they should distrust all people in that setup. It's a mob mentality thing. :(

Imagine someone now from a victim organisation asking for funds in the street or door to door (I am not saying this is how they operate - just using an example). They may find now that people refuse to give them money, and may even insult them, or call them evil frauds, based on what they have picked up from the media about this one case.

And now that it is two such cases, makes it even harder, I am sure.

Nicely said.

Case in point...far as I know I'm the only one in this thread that was actually there (the Pentagon in my case); how many question this...in part because of frauds such as her?

As memories fade, and frauds increase...that directly victimizes, for some form or personal gain, those that were actually there or otherwise directly impacted.

[tojohndillonesq]

I'll bet some of these people actually created false memories and believe they have experienced what they are claiming. Like many of the alien abduction folks... incapable of distinguishing reality.

[tkingdoll]

I guess this shows several things. One, she got away with it by coasting on the special sort of respect and reverence a player in a major world event and a victim of evil is given. Someone tells you they survived 9/11, you are filled with nothing but respect and don't so much as think of questioning them. As a matter of fact, it even makes you feel special to know them.

Two, someone in the public eye is immediatly seen as legitimate. It wouldn't enter anyone's mind that someone at Ground Zero everyday, hired by a legitimate organization, who's story is in the paper and who's shaking hands with the mayor would be anything except real.

I think there are other factors at play:

1) for some journalists, asking too many questions means potentially losing a good story. They may well have had their doubts but simply went with it anyway cause it was a better headline at the time.

2) politeness, although that's not the best word to describe what I mean. But imagine someone claims something as heartbreaking as this. Now imagine you want some details. Saying "can you just confirm what hospital you were in" is almost like saying "I don't entirely believe you, can you prove what you are saying?". And that's rude. Who wants to be rude against an overwhelming tide of public sympathy? How dare someone question the poor survivor! We need our survivors, they give us hope. How dare anyone suggest that anyone would be sick enough to lie about something this important! And so it becomes a matter of social difficulty to question. Which I believe is one of the main reasons people get away with things like this. Emperor's new clothes.

[RSLancastr]

I'm sorry you feel that way. In my view, nothing and nobody can dishonor an innocent victim of a scam.One of the meanings of the word "dishonor" is "to treat with disrespect."

I believe this was what was meant when it was said that people like Kaz and Tania Head dishonor those who were actually at the WTC and the Pentagon on 9/11/2001.

[RSLancastr]

Case in point...far as I know I'm the only one in this thread that was actually there (the Pentagon in my case); how many question this...in part because of frauds such as her?Note to self: register the domain name "StopBrickLocknar.com"...

[Locknar]

Note to self: register the domain name "StopBrickLocknar.com"...

I'd reply, but I'm just to busy laughing (really) :)

If you want, I could put you in touch with a certian Lt Col that hates me; she would be more then happy to help you with the site :)

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Politeness, although that's not the best word to describe what I mean. But imagine someone claims something as heartbreaking as this. Now imagine you want some details. Saying "can you just confirm what hospital you were in" is almost like saying "I don't entirely believe you, can you prove what you are saying?". And that's rude. Who wants to be rude against an overwhelming tide of public sympathy? How dare someone question the poor survivor! We need our survivors, they give us hope. How dare anyone suggest that anyone would be sick enough to lie about something this important! And so it becomes a matter of social difficulty to question. Which I believe is one of the main reasons people get away with things like this. Emperor's new clothes.

Yeah, I agree, there are dozens of factors at play, not just those.

Would sensitivity or respectfulness be better? That it would obviously be insensitive and disrespectful (to say the least) to demand proof from a survivor?

[RSL's better half]

Regardless, the woman is obviously sick to have gone to this extreme for attention. That doesn't excuse what she's done, but it does provide a reason. Perhaps if I had experienced it, I'd feel differently, but I still feel some compassion for her. And neither her lies nor Kaz DeMille Jacobson's has made me less compassionate towards the people who died there or those who survived. Locknar, I will never know what you are feeling, God willing. But I just can't feel such bitterness towards someone who is so obviously sick - Tania or Kaz. Even Kaz, who had definite monetary gains. Do these instances make me more wary? Possibly. But I was the one who smelled something fishy when RSL's mom told me about Kaz for the first time. I put RSL on the case because I didn't know how to handle it.

Ya know (sorry for the derail), but I had a sort-of discussion recently with my cousin which made me ask him this: "Believe me, you are not alone in this, but could you answer a question that has been bothering me? Why do people tend to take a friend's word for what is true and what is not? Why don't you take the time to research for yourself and draw your own conclusions?" He had no answer. The discussion was about an email he forwarded to me about one of the presidential candidates. He told me he trusted the person who sent it to him to know if it was true or not. I said, "And they trusted the person who sent it to them. And so you continue to perpetuate lies about the character of a person you do not know and have not researched. Had you researched, as I did the FIRST time I received that forwarded email (I've received it 4 times), you would have soon discovered it was all lies." He continued to defend his friend. It kind of hurt that he would take their word over mine, but he's a total jerk anyway. Always has been, always will be. (End derail.)

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I don't think anyone is saying that you think less of real survivors; they are saying that it cheapens the real survivor's suffering.

You know, you take any liar and you can immediatly find dozens of ways they can be harmful. For instance, the people who knew her say they feel betrayed simply by being forced to comfort Tania Head when she didn't need it.

She supplied fake memories of their son to the parents of the real life hero. She caused alot of embarrassement and distress to the family and friends of "Dave", a real victim.

It's also a crime to betray someone's sympathy, empathy and trust and goodwill and she did that to countless survivors, loved ones of victims and Ground Zero tourists. I'd be angry if I had heard her story and believed her; that's hijacking, manipulating and cheapening someone's compassion.

It's embarrassing and angering to have your tears jerked over something that's false in the same way it's angering to be given false happiness, if you know what I mean.

I'm sure the woman is seriously disturbed or attention starved or both but I don't feel as sorry for her as I do for those who believed her.

[Flo]

One of the meanings of the word "dishonor" is "to treat with disrespect."

I believe this was what was meant when it was said that people like Kaz and Tania Head dishonor those who were actually at the WTC and the Pentagon on 9/11/2001.


Thanks, I hadn't considered this meaning of the word "dishonor".

[Flo]

What happens is that people become jaded, and should a real victim present themselves as such for anything, may be met with not just skepticism - which would be fine - but outright hostility. People sometimes assume that one fraud in a certain setup means they should distrust all people in that setup. It's a mob mentality thing. :(

Imagine someone now from a victim organisation asking for funds in the street or door to door (I am not saying this is how they operate - just using an example). They may find now that people refuse to give them money, and may even insult them, or call them evil frauds, based on what they have picked up from the media about this one case.

And now that it is two such cases, makes it even harder, I am sure.

I understand the process, since there's been a somewhat similar case with a charity collecting funds for cancer research in France (the head figure of that charity embezzled the funds), that caused problems for all such charities for a while.

However, that kind of effect is usually, and fortunately in those cases, unfortunately when it comes to woo-woo crooks like Sylvia "Hagzilla" Browne, limited to a relatively small time, which of course doesn't excuse the scumbags.

[Locknar]

Regardless, the woman is obviously sick to have gone to this extreme for attention. That doesn't excuse what she's done, but it does provide a reason. Perhaps if I had experienced it, I'd feel differently, but I still feel some compassion for her. And neither her lies nor Kaz DeMille Jacobson's has made me less compassionate towards the people who died there or those who survived. Locknar, I will never know what you are feeling, God willing. But I just can't feel such bitterness towards someone who is so obviously sick - Tania or Kaz. Even Kaz, who had definite monetary gains. Do these instances make me more wary? Possibly. But I was the one who smelled something fishy when RSL's mom told me about Kaz for the first time. I put RSL on the case because I didn't know how to handle it.


Sorry, I don't buy the "she is sick" excuse as a reason. Would you make the same argument for say SB, Geller, dowsers, Nigerian Scammers, etc.; ie. folks that knowingly and wittingly perpetuate a fraud for gain?

I think the “knowingly and wittingly” aspects are key, and the difference between a scam artist and someone who is mentally ill.

As taken from the NY Times article:

In recent weeks, The New York Times sought to interview Ms. Head about her experiences on 9/11 because she had, in other settings, presented a poignant account of survival and loss. But she canceled three scheduled interviews, citing her privacy and emotional turmoil, and declined to provide details to corroborate her story. During a telephone conversation on Tuesday, she would not explain her reticence, saying only that she had not filed any claims with the federal Victim Compensation Fund. “I have done nothing illegal,” Ms. Head said.

To me…suddenly avoiding interviews, and the “I have done nothing illegal” comment gives the impression she was fully aware of her actions, and knew they were wrong. That is to say, she knowingly and wittingly perpetuated her fraud.