Cockney rhyming slang

[Mr. Skinny]

I was discussing this with Reginald on PalTalk the other night.

I had borrowed the movie "Limey", starring Terence Stamp, from the library last week, and he used quite a few examples of this form of speech in the movie. Given that the movie was set in the USA, the 'mericans didn't understand him, so he'd offer a translation.

Unfortunately, the translation made no sense to me either. I really couldn't figure out how they derived the "real meaning" from the rhyming slang.

I know DeBunk understands some of this, and Reginald seemed to have a basic explaination, but I can't seem to wrap my brain around this concept.

Can anyone help? Mad Linguist? DeBunk?

[Glory]

I only know one example of what you are referring to.

When someone says," we're in Barney" they are talking about Barney Rubble which rhymes with trouble. "We're in Barney"="We're in trouble".

The catch is that the end result has nothing literal to do with the original concept. Trouble doesn't rhyme with Barney. You have to know what Barney means and then know what rhymes with the thing to which Barney refers.

It's all incredibly complicated.

Glory

[ChrisH]

Cockney Rhyming was a form of secret communication, to prevent the authorities from understanding conversations. And, as has been said, the actual rhyming word is left out - so if you're sitting at the cain with a bice of richards, you cant really lord...
(Cain & Abel - table, Richard the Third - bird, Lord Mayor - swear). Oh, and 'bice' was butcher's slang for two.

Yes - it is complicated - by design. One of my favourites is "Arris" - Aristotle - Bottle - Bottle and Glass - Arse.

[Glory]

Originally posted by ChrisH
One of my favourites is "Arris" - Aristotle - Bottle - Bottle and Glass - Arse.

Isn't that pretty much a complete circle?

Glory

[Zep]

Actually, most Cocknies would say that a "Richard" is a completely different "object" to a bird. Rearrange the letters - URDT

If you wanted a taste of Cockney rhyming slang, just watch The Bill for a few weeks!

Which also brings up all the variations that rhyming slang produces. In Australia it is still sometimes used, eg. "Take a butcher's at that!". Butcher's - butcher's hook - look. A variation is "Take a captains' at that!". Captain's - Captain Cook - look.

[Jeff Corey]

There's a whole lexicon on Google. The first one I ever heard was "Me trouble" for " Me trouble and strife".
It looks like it's constantly evolving. The terms seem tohave the general rule that the first part of the middle phrase consists of the term you're using and the term you mean rhymes with the last part.
So trouble means wife.
There's some reversals in some British slang, right, yobos?
And there's Clockwork Orange slovos. my droogs.
Horrorshow!

[ChrisH]

Originally posted by Zep
Actually, most Cocknies would say that a "Richard" is a completely different "object" to a bird. Rearrange the letters - URDT

If you wanted a taste of Cockney rhyming slang, just watch The Bill for a few weeks!

Which also brings up all the variations that rhyming slang produces. In Australia it is still sometimes used, eg. "Take a butcher's at that!". Butcher's - butcher's hook - look.

Yes - "butcher's" is used in UK too. "Richard" can be used for either - remember Ronny Barker's "Small brown Richard the Third" sermon sketch?

In Oz I was asked if I was a "Two and from" = Pom.
Musicians have used "Florries" and "Norwegians" to refer to chords ... fr. music-hall peformer Florry Forde and Norwegian Fjord.

I once had a letter from a friend who had hurt his "Cilla" - referred to elsewhere as his "Cadburys", his back, from Cilla Black and Cadbury's Snack. It's unending!

[Colloden]

My particular favourite is Sausage my Gregory
As in “Can you Sausage my Gregory ?”

Sausage and mash – cash
Gregory Peck – check

“Can you cash my check ?”

I know, it doesn’t rhyme. :rolleyes:

[Zep]

Gor blimey, guv! He's 'alf-inched it and hit the frog-and-toad!

[glee]

I was born in London, went to school there and then lived worked there, for a total of 33 years.

I never heard anyone ever use rhyming slang, except when telling a joke or amusing tourists.

Like the Loch Ness monster, it doesn't exist in real life, but people like to discuss it.

[Zep]

And we Australians don't all parade around in kakhi shorts and jump away from crocodiles shouting "Crikey! Get a load of THIS little bewdy!". In fact, the current count of the population that does this is still just one(1).

[Azathoth]

I loved "The Limey". Another great film with plenty of Cockney Rhyming slang is Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels. There's actually a great scene with someone telling a story in a nuclear sub (pub) that's subtitled so you can unpack the slang. The DVD has a glossary.

There's plenty of other lists online, though as glee mentions, it seems that many of these terms are invented solely for the purpose of making long lists of Cockney slang terms. Here's one, anyway:

Cockney Rhyming Slang (http://www.businessballs.com/cockney.htm)

[gnome]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
There's a whole lexicon on Google. The first one I ever heard was "Me trouble" for " Me trouble and strife".


I heard that one first on Fawlty Towers, "trouble" - "Trouble and strife" - "wife"

Basil was betting on a horse and said, "Not a word to the Trouble..."

Is there some significance to the choice of rhyming pair... putting some of the connotations of "trouble and strife" into the marriage? Or is that just a coincidence?

[glee]

Originally posted by gnome
I heard that one first on Fawlty Towers, "trouble" - "Trouble and strife" - "wife"

Basil was betting on a horse and said, "Not a word to the Trouble..."

Is there some significance to the choice of rhyming pair... putting some of the connotations of "trouble and strife" into the marriage? Or is that just a coincidence?


As i said, nobody speaks this way in real life.
Having said that I expect 'trouble (and strife)' is more amusing than e.g. 'fork (and knife)'.
But since e.g. 'butcher's (hook)' translates to 'look', it's clear that there doesn't have to be any connection.

Have you heard about the Cockney 'alphabet'?
It starts with:

A for 'orses
B for Christ (I'm not sure about this one!)
C for yourself

[Mendor]

Can't remember much of it, but...

A for horses,
B for mutton,
C for th' Highlanders,
D for what,
E for Novello,
.
.
.
O for the wings of a dove,
.
.
.
S for Rantzen,
.
.
.
V for La France,
etc.

[Glory]

Originally posted by Mendor
O for the wings of a dove,

Madness will never sound the same to me again!

Glory

[Ladewig]

So when P.G. Wodehouse refers to evening wear as "soup and fish," is he rhyming something or simply refering to the first two courses in a fomal dinner?

[UKBoy1977]

It's not true to say that it is not spoken any more. A lot of Londoners still pepper their speech with it.

I hear all of the following expressions regularly in everyday speech or on TV:

Someone wearing a syrup
Someone who is upset being in 'a right 2 and 8'
'Would you Adam and Eve it?'
Someone being Brassic
A person's Barnet
Let's get down to Brass Tacks
Calling someone a Charlie or a Berk
Dipstick
Being on the 'dog and bone'
Half inch something
Play on the Joanna
Go for a Jimmy
Use your loaf
Take the Mickey
Tell a porkie
Go for a Ruby
Blow a Rasberry
You toerag!
I'm feeling Tom and Dick

So I would say it is still quite alive and well!

[Glory]

Someone wearing a syrup
Someone who is upset being in 'a right 2 and 8'
'Would you Adam and Eve it?'
Someone being Brassic
A person's Barnet
Let's get down to Brass Tacks
Calling someone a Charlie or a Berk
Dipstick
Being on the 'dog and bone'
Half inch something
Play on the Joanna
Go for a Jimmy
Use your loaf
Take the Mickey
Tell a porkie
Go for a Ruby
Blow a Rasberry
You toerag!
I'm feeling Tom and Dick


Okay, so what the deuce does all that mean?

Glory

[Zep]

Originally posted by UKBoy1977
Someone wearing a syrup
Someone who is upset being in 'a right 2 and 8'
'Would you Adam and Eve it?'
Someone being Brassic
A person's Barnet
Let's get down to Brass Tacks
Calling someone a Charlie or a Berk
Dipstick
Being on the 'dog and bone'
Half inch something
Play on the Joanna
Go for a Jimmy
Use your loaf
Take the Mickey
Tell a porkie
Go for a Ruby
Blow a Rasberry
You toerag!
I'm feeling Tom and Dick

So I would say it is still quite alive and well!
I don't think these are ALL rhyming slang, but I'm sure I will be corrected!

"a syrup" - syrup of fig - wig
"Adam and Eve" - believe
"Barnet" - Barnet Fair - hair
"dog and bone" - phone
"half inch" - pinch (to steal)
"Joanna" - piano
"Jimmy" - Jimmy Riddle - piddle (to pee).
"loaf" - loaf of bread - head
"porkie" - pork pie - lie
"Tom and Disk" - sick (ill)

Easy!

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

And there's Clockwork Orange slovos. my droogs.
Horrorshow!


Silly me. I read <u>Clockwork Orange</u> when it first came out (at my grandmother's suggestion but that's a story for another time). This was before the movie. I foolishly imagined the nadsats putting on phoney Russian accents.

Thus "chelloveck" I imagined being pronounced with the first vowel almost a schwa and the accent on the "o". Not that I speak Russian, but I was around enough Russian speakers to be called "ch'lOvek" from time to time.

The drugs in milk (moloko plus) were "vellocet" ("speed" in Russian), "synthemesc" (synthetic mescaline most likely), and the droogs' favorite "drencom" otherwise known as "milk with knives", to sharpen you up for the night you see.

It wasn't until years later that I figured out that "drencrom" was adrenochrome. I'd never even heard of the stuff when I first read <u>Clockwork Orange</u>.

More fictional pseudo-Russian teenage slang in <u>Enderby</u> also by Anthony Burgess (no movie). Anyone out there know what the Orfa he was trying to get at with that?

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Glory
Originally posted by ChrisH

One of my favourites is "Arris" - Aristotle - Bottle - Bottle and Glass - Arse.



Isn't that pretty much a complete circle?


Indeed. See <u>The Doctor is Sick</u> by Anthony Burgess. Looks like there's going to be a lot of Burgess on this thread.

[UKBoy1977]

All the ones I mentioned are explained in the link that was a few posts before mine. They are all cockney rhyming slang. What is funny is that some of them have become part of everyday speech and even British people don't realise that they come from rhyming slang.

I didn't realise toerag, blow a raspberry and use your loaf were!

[tonygraham]

My favourite, not that I'm overly keen on cockneys, was always 'Hank' for hungry e.g. "Let's get something to eat, I'm absolutely Hank Marvin".

[tonygraham]

And, of course, the favourite of teenage boys, "Having a J Arthur", after J Arthur Rank, of course.

Sorry to labour the point, and it's not rhyming slang, but the aforementioned was also known in my neck of the woods as having a 'wafty', short for wafty crank.

[UKBoy1977]

Sorry to labour the point, and it's not rhyming slang, but the aforementioned was also known in my neck of the woods as having a 'wafty', short for wafty crank.

That would be an example of a Spoonerism I believe?

[tonygraham]

Originally posted by UKBoy1977


That would be an example of a Spoonerism I believe?

I guess so, but a very deliberate one

[welshdean]

Originally posted by tonygraham
And, of course, the favourite of teenage boys, "Having a J Arthur", after J Arthur Rank, of course.

Sorry to labour the point, and it's not rhyming slang, but the aforementioned was also known in my neck of the woods as having a 'wafty', short for wafty crank.


In my neck of the woods, we used ryhming slang to describe all manner of things, a bit of our own 'design' and a lot borrowed from the East End!
If we were discussing something and didn't want to be overheard we would use it. An example similar to tonygraham's above would be 'Having a jod'. A Jodrell Bank!!

[gnome]

Originally posted by welshdean



In my neck of the woods, we used ryhming slang to describe all manner of things, a bit of our own 'design' and a lot borrowed from the East End!
If we were discussing something and didn't want to be overheard we would use it. An example similar to tonygraham's above would be 'Having a jod'. A Jodrell Bank!!

I wonder how many other Americans get this one, even knowing that the rhyming word is "Bank."

It helps to watch lots of british comedy.

[richardm]

Originally posted by Ladewig
So when P.G. Wodehouse refers to evening wear as "soup and fish," is he rhyming something or simply refering to the first two courses in a fomal dinner?

I'm pretty sure that it was contemporary slang for the sort of elaborate formal dinners they had in those days - the ones where you'd have soup, then a fish course, then some sorbet to cleanse your palate, then the main course would arrive, and so on.

My favourite bit of rhyming slang is "Chalfonts", for haemorrhoids. The derivation is quite neat: there are a group of adjacent villages in Buckinghamshire with names like "Chalfont St. Peter, Chalfont Latimer", "Little Chalfont" - and "Chalfont St. Giles". Collectively they are known as "The Chalfonts". Chalfont St. Giles is, of course, a rhyme for "Piles" - haemorrhoids.