Harry Potter: Book (and movie) 1

[Tony]

Why is the first book and movie of Harry Potter entitled, "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone", in America. But it is entitled "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" in England?

[ceptimus]

'Changing the title is something big and important that [the publishers] can do to justify their salaries, and it does not require reading the book, so that's why they like it so much.' - An embattled author, reported by Richard Dawkins.

'More generally, may I suggest that authors of the world unite and assert the right to name their own books.' - Richard Dawkins, "A DEVIL'S CHAPLAIN"

[Kilted_Canuck]

As I remember it, the American publisher made some changes to the book, to 'Americanise it'. The title was changed because they didn't think that most american children could read the world "Philosopher", due to syllables and such.

Here's a website that documents all the changes between American and British/Canadian:
http://www.hp-lexicon.org/differences-ss.html

[hgc]

The American publisher, Scholastic, didn't think American children would understand the word "Philosopher" in this context. The problem is there really is such a thing (in historical mythology) as a philosopher's stone. It's an 'element' used by an alchemist to change other materials into gold. Oh gee, that's what it is in the book too! Incredible stupidity to change it to some nonsense term.

[Hexxenhammer]

This is why I buy the English versions of the books. It makes them so much more....English.

[hgc]

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer
This is why I buy the English versions of the books. It makes them so much more....English. I also have English versions of the books that I picked up in Europe, but I think it makes less difference as the series goes on. I have heard (not confirmed) that after Scholastic realized that they had an eternal classic on their hands, they did less translation into American. I would like to see a list like the one linked above for rest of the books.

[Thanz]

Originally posted by hgc
I would like to see a list like the one linked above for rest of the books.
Delve deeper into into the website linked above. What you seek may yet still be found.......

[hgc]

Originally posted by Thanz

Delve deeper into into the website linked above. What you seek may yet still be found....... Doh! Guess I didn't want to know that badly.

It seems there is some reduction of changes from book to book.

The point is for me, I would at least want my children to read the original because they could learn something about language and how it's different from place to place. So what if they have to find out what jumpers, trainers and windscreens are? That process is part of the learning that makes reading books so valuable and interesting.

[Hexxenhammer]

I've been wondering if they were making less changes as the series went on. I'm glad I'm ordering them from Amazon UK.

[Ove]

The point is for me, I would at least want my children to read the original because they could learn something about language and how it's different from place to place. So what if they have to find out what jumpers, trainers and windscreens are? That process is part of the learning that makes reading books so valuable and interesting.
Brilliant idea. You can buy the books via Amazon.UK if you wan't to be sure to get the original ;)

My daughter (15) has read all the books in English we bought the last one in UK this summer and remember she is Danish.:den: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer
I've been wondering if they were making less changes as the series went on. I'm glad I'm ordering them from Amazon UK.

I believe Canada keeps the UK wording and book covers. Maybe you could order them from the great white north. (May be cheaper to ship from here.)

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by Segnosaur


I believe Canada keeps the UK wording and book covers. Maybe you could order them from the great white north. (May be cheaper to ship from here.)
Good idea. If you know any links to Canadian book retailers I would check them out.

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer

Good idea. If you know any links to Canadian book retailers I would check them out.

Try: http://www.amazon.ca or http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/Default.asp

I have no idea how good their service is to the US, or whether if you order from amazon.ca, whether they would ship the US or Canadian version town to you.

[RonSceptic]

Originally posted by Kilted_Canuck
As I remember it, the American publisher made some changes to the book, to 'Americanise it'. The title was changed because they didn't think that most american children could read the world "Philosopher", due to syllables and such.

Here's a website that documents all the changes between American and British/Canadian:
http://www.hp-lexicon.org/differences-ss.html

An interesting link. I can understand ( though I do not condone) changing a few words here and there to aid comprehension, but introducting a new character?

According to the link the Uk version has....

…three people left to be sorted. 'Turpin, Lisa' became… …

Which is changed in the US version to.....

..three people left to be sorted. "Thomas, Dean," a Black boy even taller than Ron, joined Harry at the Gryffindor table. "Turpin, Lisa" became…

Doesn't this undermine the basic integrity of the text?

Do they do this with other books? Are there now a few PC hobbits in Lord of the Rings we should know about?:confused:

[Halbert]

Originally posted by RonSceptic
Are there now a few PC hobbits in Lord of the Rings we should know about?:confused:

As an aside: When I originally read them (at around 8-10 years old) I thought merry and pippin were female hobbits.

[Chaos]

@Halbert:
Now that you mention it...I read it at 13, and I thought Pippin sounded a lot like Pippi Longstockings. :)

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Chaos
@Halbert:
Now that you mention it...I read it at 13, and I thought Pippin sounded a lot like Pippi Longstockings. :)
"Merry" ain't zackly the most manly name neither.

[RonSceptic]

Originally posted by Tricky

"Merry" ain't zackly the most manly name neither.


And Sam is always referring to Frodo as 'master'. I am beginning to view this book in a new light!

[Chaos]

And Sam is always referring to Frodo as 'master'.

In the movies, he says "Mr. Frodo". Though, I used to think of him as something like cross between a butler and a pack mule.

[Silicon]

Originally posted by RonSceptic


An interesting link. I can understand ( though I do not condone) changing a few words here and there to aid comprehension, but introducting a new character?

According to the link the Uk version has....

…three people left to be sorted. 'Turpin, Lisa' became… …

Which is changed in the US version to.....

..three people left to be sorted. "Thomas, Dean," a Black boy even taller than Ron, joined Harry at the Gryffindor table. "Turpin, Lisa" became…

Doesn't this undermine the basic integrity of the text?


No.

Dean Thomas was always a character (he has very important things to do in the upcoming books). But his age never was important, so he was just another student.

When his age DID become important in the later books, it was noticed that he was the same age as Harry. So it was realized that he SHOULD have been in the same sorting hat ceremony, and was missed.

So that was fixed when the American book was released. Dean Thomas was NOT added to the American books in order to PC it up. He was ALWAYS an important character.

[richardm]

Originally posted by Silicon


No.

Dean Thomas was always a character (he has very important things to do in the upcoming books). But his age never was important, so he was just another student.

When his age DID become important in the later books, it was noticed that he was the same age as Harry. So it was realized that he SHOULD have been in the same sorting hat ceremony, and was missed.

So that was fixed when the American book was released. Dean Thomas was NOT added to the American books in order to PC it up. He was ALWAYS an important character.


Yet it never occurred to me that the named children were the only ones being sorted. If I had been pressed, I'd have assumed that Harry (and thus, we) were only tuning in to the occasional person. Pretty small intake that year, considering that the classes seem to be well attended.

[Silicon]

Originally posted by richardm

Yet it never occurred to me that the named children were the only ones being sorted. If I had been pressed, I'd have assumed that Harry (and thus, we) were only tuning in to the occasional person. Pretty small intake that year, considering that the classes seem to be well attended.


If you re-read the chapter, you'd see that there ARE times when Harry fades in and out, like you said.

But the children are sorted Alphabetically, and Thomas, Dean would fall into a lucid period.

[richardm]

Originally posted by Silicon

But the children are sorted Alphabetically, and Thomas, Dean would fall into a lucid period.

Well, unless my comprehension is way off - not in my copy. Well, not necessarily.

We have Harry being sorted, and all the excitement of him going to the Gryffindor table.

"And now there were only three people left to be sorted. 'Turpin, Lisa' became a Ravenclaw and then it was Ron's turn

(Ron, of course, being Weasley). Blaise Zabini is last.

So I still think that they could have let us assume that Dean Thomas was sorted while Harry was having his hand shaken. I guess it's one of two things: either kids didn't realise that we might have glossed over some people and wrote letters to the publishers pointing out the error until the publishers got fed up and put him in, or [PC Conspiracy] the publishers felt that Hogwarts was too white and middle-class and added in the description of the Tall, Black boy. [/PC Conspiracy]

[Silicon]

No PC conspiracy.

JK Rowling would have been the only one with data on that, and the only one who would have known to change it. When the first book came out, SHE was the only one to know their ages. It was her call.

If they wanted to add a Tall Black boy, they could have added him anywhere. He was already in the book. She added him in the sorting ceremony for a reason.

The way I read it, there are no students sorted between Potter, Harry and Thomas, Dean. That "And now" directly follows the action after Harry's sorting. If you know Rowling's writing style, she's very particular about how she carries moments for Harry. If Harry was spacing out and not listening, or if time was being compressed, the "And now" would instead be someting like "Soon, there were only 3 left to sort" or "Harry soon became aware that there were only 3 students left to sort". Rowling very distinctly is not doing that here.


There are plenty of other characters of color in the Harry Potter books, including the first one (Angelina Johnson, Lee Jordan). Dean Thomas wasn't "added".


Anyone who thinks Hogwarts is too white or too middle class should look a little deeper into the themes. In fact, no school in the world is as racially mixed as Hogwarts. What other school in the real world accepts Mudbloods? What other school has a half-giant as a teacher? What other school employs a Centaur, a ghost, a dwarf? I think you'll find the real world hard-pressed to meet the standards of Racial and species equality of Hogwarts!

The Weasleys are NOT middle class. The Dursleys are the very symbol of middle-class, and all that's wrong with it. The Malfoys are the very picture of the evil that all the rich people have in their blood!

Anyone looking to PC up Harry Potter would have a very very hard time looking for something to change. It's the very picture of PC to start with! You're saying that they had to pc it up MORE by adding Dean Thomas to a book he was already in?!!?

[ZeeGerman]

Originally posted by Chaos


In the movies, he says "Mr. Frodo". Though, I used to think of him as something like cross between a butler and a pack mule.


I clearly recall him using "Master Frodo" when adressing Frodo in the movies...

Zee

[Chaos]

Originally posted by ZeeGerman



I clearly recall him using "Master Frodo" when adressing Frodo in the movies...

Zee

The English subtitles of my DVD version say "Mister Frodo".

[ZeeGerman]

Originally posted by Chaos


The English subtitles of my DVD version say "Mister Frodo".

I never used the subtitles. But I checked my DivX rip of LOTR II and you are right. Sam does say "Mister Frodo" in the Movie.
Seems that I mixed the movie and the books which I reread after LOTR I.

Cheers,

Zee