Touching...........

[Jon_in_london]

Seen on a memorial stone inside an English village church:

When musing sorrow weeps the past
And mourns the present pain
How sweet to think of peace at last
And think of death as gain.

[Tony]

What years were inscribed on the tombstone?

How can anyone think of death as gain (unless, of course, they were suicidal)?

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Tony
What years were inscribed on the tombstone?

How can anyone think of death as gain (unless, of course, they were suicidal)?

Some time in the 1700's.

Well, you could think of death as peace (at last), which I think was the gist of the thing. Which does seem a tad suicidal.

[livius drusus]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
Seen on a memorial stone inside an English village church:

When musing sorrow weeps the past
And mourns the present pain
How sweet to think of peace at last
And think of death as gain. I think it's achingly beautiful, and a testament not to suicide but to the passage of time, the nature of life and the preciousness of mortality. The author is not suggesting that death is an easy way to end pain. I believe he's saying that having an understanding of the finite can still turbulent emotional waters and make us humans, so often plagued with an unslakable thirst for eternal life, appreciate that our mortality is no curse to be countered with perpetual struggle and blood rituals, but is that which in the end makes our lives worth the price of living.

[Tony]

I disagree.

[livius drusus]

Originally posted by Tony
I disagree.

About?

[Tony]

The poem and its meaning.

[livius drusus]

Originally posted by Tony
The poem and its meaning. That's rather broad. You believe it is in praise of suicide then? Not only do I disagree with that interpretation of the text, but I also find it culturally unlikely, as no suicide would be buried in consecrated ground in the 18th century.

[Tony]

Originally posted by livius drusus
You believe it is in praise of suicide then?


No, that's not my point at all.

Poems like this were written for a purpose, to provide comfort to the grieving. (most) People suffering the loss of a loved one need to be told that everything will be alright, that their loved one is in a "better place". The truth is, death is not a gain, it is not beautiful, it is ugl, but people who are grieving dont want to hear about this harsh reality.

[livius drusus]

Originally posted by Tony
No, that's not my point at all.

Poems like this were written for a purpose, to provide comfort to the grieving. (most) People suffering the loss of a loved one need to be told that everything will be alright, that their loved one is in a "better place".

The poem does not refer to an afterlife, however, but only to a thought of peace. Your interpretation rests solely on the word "gain" meaning paradise, and I don't see how that is textually supported.

The truth is, death is not a gain, it is not beautiful, it is ugly.

The author does not say that death is a gain. He says that there is peace to be found in thinking of death as gain. Since I don't see any reference in the text to the gain being otherworldly, that to me indicates an emphasis on the value of embracing our mortality instead of seeking to escape it.

[Tony]

Originally posted by livius drusus

The poem does not refer to an afterlife, however, but only to a thought of peace. Your interpretation rests solely on the word "gain" meaning paradise, and I don't see how that is textually supported.


It's supported by the context in which it was written. 18th century england.

The author does not say that death is a gain. He says that there is peace to be found in thinking of death as gain. Since I don't see any reference in the text to the gain being otherworldly

Look at the cultural context, and the fact that the cemetary is in a church.

that to me indicates an emphasis on the value of embracing our mortality instead of seeking to escape it.

If anything isnt textually supported, its this.

[Boo]

I read this as after the sorrow and pain of life that death is gaining of peace. A chance to rest, at last. That one should not grieve for the deceased as they no longer have to suffer life, work, illness, but are finally allowed the peace of sleep.



Boo

[7th sextile]

But weep the past-already dead?-
And death,as gain or not
Is yet to come,so be it said:
The present's all ya got.

7th

[Mark]

Originally posted by Tony
What years were inscribed on the tombstone?

How can anyone think of death as gain (unless, of course, they were suicidal)?

I gather you've never had a loved one confined to a convalescent hospital for Alzheimer's. There are thing that are much worse than death.

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by Tony
Poems like this were written for a purpose, to provide comfort to the grieving. (most) People suffering the loss of a loved one need to be told that everything will be alright, that their loved one is in a "better place".
Seemed pretty apparent to me that that's what it was about. As you say, it's in a 17th century church cemetery. The reference to "peace at last" is likely a reference to the tradional Christian blessing, "May the Lord's peace be with you." And any devout Christian would think of death as a "gain", provided the deceased was going to Heaven. A number of Johann Sebastian Bach's (a devout Lutheran) cantatas deal with the idea of death being a release, and a cause for celebration, as the deceased would be leaving the material, transitory world of physical pain and suffering, to enter into eternal bliss in the loving arms of Jesus Christ.

Well, it's beautiful music, anyway...

[Missy]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
Seen on a memorial stone inside an English village church:

When musing sorrow weeps the past
And mourns the present pain
How sweet to think of peace at last
And think of death as gain.

That was touching indeed :). I love coming across poems like these, so much is said using only a few words.. Beautiful.

I like to think that poems don't neccesarily have one meaning, but a variety of different ones, a different meaning for whoever reads them.
When I read this one, despite the fact it was actually on a memorial stone in a church, I don't feel it has any religous presence to it all. A personal interpretation is, I think about the elderly people I work with.. As they lie on their deathbed awaiting their own death, they are in pain, they are suffering.

Whatever death is, my thoughts are that it's a peaceful end to however long they've been in pain.


Missy (Thanks JIL. That one really hit the heart for me :) )

[Cinorjer]

The lines on the tombstone come from a popular hymn of the time, "When Musing Sorrow Weeps the Past". Written by a Gerard Noel, 1782-1851, clergyman of the Church of England who wrote a whole book of hymns. The quote on the tombstone can be found elsewhere, including the colonies in the United States.

My favorite old poem found on an occasional headstone from the 1800s is:

Remember friend, as you pass by
As you are now, so once was I
As I am now, you'll one day be
First live your life, then follow me.

I used to hang out in graveyards as a young man and record these. I'm not quite so morbid now. I've never found where this particular poem came from, though.

[zakur]

Here's one for all you dog lovers:

Near this spot are deposited the remains
of one who possessed Beauty without Vanity,
Strength without Insolence, Courage without Ferocity,
and all the Virtues of Man without his Vices.
This praise, which would be unmeaning Flattery
if inscribed over human ashes, is but just a Tribute
to the memory of BOATSWAIN, a dog.

—John C. Hobouse, 1830. Inscription on the monument raised for Lord Byron's dog, Boatswain, in the grounds of Newstead Abbey.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Cinorjer
I used to hang out in graveyards as a young man and record these. I'm not quite so morbid now. I've never found where this particular poem came from, though.

I love graveyards. I dont find them morbid. I find them peacefull, calming and reasurring, always feel very content after spending an hour or so exploring the graveyard of some small parish church on a sunny day. Dont know why........

[Boo]

Jon,

I, also, have passed many peaceful hours wandering among gravestones. Perhaps my favorite was a cemetary located on the grounds of a naval hospital built for a yellow fever epidemic just prior to the US Civil War. Rows upon rows of ........

Unknown Unknown
C.S. A U.S.A


It allows for reflection and makes me realize just how little time we ll have to let the people around us know that we love them.



Boo