Tarot cards

[Cainkane1]

Some illustrators give their artwork to printers of Tarot cards. These are collected by hobbyists. Anyone in here collect those colorful cards?

[JA Demko]

I used to collect Tarot cards. Some of them were really beautiful. I lusted after a Salvador Dali deck for a very long time but could never justify to myself paying its rather high price. Lost the whole collection in a divorce and never replaced them.
BTW, I feel compelled to state that I collected them solely as art. I never had the slightest belief in any fortune-telling hogwash.

[Stir]

I have about 20 Tarot's, collected over the years. I was interested in the history of playing cards, which inescapably led me to Tarot (and other variants and precursors of playing cards).

[RSLancastr]

Some illustrators give their artwork to printers of Tarot cards. These are collected by hobbyists. Anyone in here collect those colorful cards?Few illustrators "give" their artwork to publishers/printers!

I have a dozen or more Tarot decks as part of my collection of playing cards. Some non-tarot decks from my collection can be seen on my long-neglected playing-card web site (http://members.aol.com/RSLancastr).

I was fortunate enough to take a tour of the offices of US Games, which publishes many tarot decks. USGS is owned by Stuart Kaplan, one of the foremost American collectors of tarot and playing cards (as well as being the author of the four-volume Encyclopedia of Tarot). There were some incredible decks on display in the office, as well as at a nearby museum, including one card from the oldest known tarot deck.

Very cool stuff.

[karmicserenade]

I have 2 decks, the original rider deck, as well as a dragon deck (which is lovely).

[Cainkane1]

I used to collect Tarot cards. Some of them were really beautiful. I lusted after a Salvador Dali deck for a very long time but could never justify to myself paying its rather high price. Lost the whole collection in a divorce and never replaced them.
BTW, I feel compelled to state that I collected them solely as art. I never had the slightest belief in any fortune-telling hogwash.
I don't believe in fortune telling either. I once saw a tarot deck illustrated by Frank Frazetta but i didn't want to pay $35.00 for it.

[h0mesch00led]

i don't know about tarot cards guys...

[Stir]

i don't know about tarot cards guys...

Huh?? Does this mean you can't appreciate an art form if it originates in 'woo'? If so, you'd eliminate most of Bach & Handel, many sculptors & painters, glorious architecture, archaeological wonders, etc, etc. Sad

[RSLancastr]

i don't know about tarot cards guys...Then you should learn! :D

Here are images (courtesy wicce.com) of some of the Tarot decks in my collection:

Tarot of Baseball (http://wicce.com/baseball.jpg)
Tarot For Cats (http://wicce.com/catspic.html)
H.R. Giger Tarot (http://wicce.com/hrgigerpix.html)
Glow-In-The-Dark Tarot (http://wicce.com/glowinthedark.jpg)
Halloween Tarot (http://wicce.com/halloween.jpg)
Original Rider-Waite (http://wicce.com/originalrwpix.html)
Tarocchi di Robot (http://wicce.com/robotpix.html)
Tiny Tarot (http://wicce.com/tinytarot.jpg)
Year 2000 Tarock (http://wicce.com/pinozac2000pix.html)

Actually, if you consider Tarock decks (such as the last one), I probably have another twenty or so.

I have another very cool tarot, the name of which escapes me, which is named after the related Vampire-themed role playing game.

[sthomson]

I have 2 decks, the original rider deck, as well as a dragon deck (which is lovely).

My friend has this deck (http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/celtic-dragon/), and I can't stop looking at them when she brings them out.

[Miss Whiplash]

I have another very cool tarot, the name of which escapes me, which is named after the related Vampire-themed role playing game.

The Masquerade?

Got a link? I don't have this deck. Of course, I have a big collection of vampire themed junque for some strange reason.

[TheDoLittle]

I seem to remember Phil and/or Kaja Foglio doing some tarot illustrations a while back, around the same time they were doing illustrations for Magic: The Gathering. Anyone seen these?

[eir_de_scania]

I agree, Tarot decks are often very beautiful! Browsing around Tarot sites is fun, and cheap as well, :p so thanks for the links!

[ChristineR]

I love Tarot decks, although I only own a couple. I prefer the older pre-Rider-Waite decks. As odd as this sounds, Rider and Waite really distorted the woo, including such extraneous stuff as astrology, numerology, pre-Rosetta stone junk Egyptology, and the Kabbala, and changed a lot of the imagery to match what they claimed was the original mystical meaning.

The exact origins of the original imagery are obscure, but they seem to include some sort of renaissance Christian cosmology and are divided into earthly, spiritual, and heavenly powers. They may also represent some sort of parade or pageant based around the same thing (possibly a pre-lenten, Mardi Gras parade) and the models may be really members of the family who owned the two oldest known Tarot sets.

And the regular number cards are just as fascinating, but I won't get started on them. :)

[RSLancastr]

The Masquerade?
Sorry, my memory was a bit faulty there.

It was another White Wolf RPG, Mage: The Ascencion, which has nothing to do with vampires.

[Tressa]

Voyager deck. It's the only one I had while I was Wiccan/Witch.

[Madalch]

I drew up my own once. Never considered finding out what was in a Tarot deck first, just drew up whatever odd idea came to mind.

[streamlet]

I've made two cartoon/anime decks by finding scenes that correspond to the meanings of the cards, and then photoshopping pictures and frames together with effects and clipart. An enjoyable way to spend a few evenings, and a cool offering to your fandom of choice.

Tarot cards are pretty. :)

[arthwollipot]

I've got two - a miniature Rider/Waite and a Norse tarot, which fit right in my brief period of dabbling in paganism.

I also used to own a non-tarot deck of cards called Philosopher's Stone (http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/philosophers-stone-self-awareness/) which I absolutely loved. I've no idea where they are now. Probably buried in some box somewhere.

[supercorgi]

I originally got interested in Tarot symbolism in high school when I had to interpret a passage of T.S. Elliot's The Wasteland - he drew heavily on tarot symbolism and stuff from the Golden Bough. I do find the Major Arcana as sort of interesting in that it can represent a spiritual progression of a person from innocence (The Fool) to worldliness (The World). There are many beautiful Tarot decks that can be appreciated as fun and accessible works of art.

[karmicserenade]

Okay, now how many of you actually use them??

[Minarvia]

I have a bunch of decks; probably several dozen. I haven't used them for years since I came to the realization that they are "woo." Off the top of my head I have several Egyptian ones, Wiccan ones, Baseball, Halloween, Vampire, Cosmic, Robin Wood, Shakespearean, Goddess, Indian, Dragon, Unicorn, Rider Waite, Russian St. Petersburgh, Renaissance, and others I can't recall at the moment. They are beautiful and fun to collect.

[quixotecoyote]

Back when I was single, tarot cards were a great 'in' whenever there was a flat surface handy.

[RSLancastr]

Okay, now how many of you actually use them??Not me.

[fuelair]

I seem to remember Phil and/or Kaja Foglio doing some tarot illustrations a while back, around the same time they were doing illustrations for Magic: The Gathering. Anyone seen these?Loved their Xxxenophile deck!!:D

[TX50]

What repulsive-looking things! Second rate applied-art at best.

[arthwollipot]

Okay, now how many of you actually use them??

I used to. I wasn't very good at it.

[rats]

Okay, now how many of you actually use them??

me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarot_(game)) ;)

A great method of ganging up against family members!

[Ethan Thane Athen]

Okay, now how many of you actually use them??

Me, at least I used to. Had a classic deck originally but now own a 'Celtic' deck which is very attractive. Used to do readings for friends 'for a laugh' but stopped when they kept telling me how good I was and started taking it seriously. Didn't matter how much I told them that half the things I said were based on what I already knew about them and the other half they'd actually told me during the reading: 'This represents a male figure...' 'That's my dad! That's amazing, how did you know I had a difficult relationship with my dad!' 'Er, I've known you for 10 years but anyway I didn't say it was your dad, just a male figure or potentially any authority figure' 'No, it's amazing how the cards fit exactly, do some more, you're really good at this!'.

Even when you explain to them that books on Tarot instruct you on very loose generalised readings that can be adapted if they don't fit the facts you know about the person and some even positively encourage that ('This card represents blah blah...unless you know that doesn't fit the person in which case it means whatever fits') they still feel there's something in it - even those who profess not to believe!

Doesn't seem as strong with other divination tools* I Ching, Crystal Oracle, Rune Stones etc

*All owned for the same reason ie I find them attractive / fascinating that people believe in them.

[Bethany]

I seem to remember Phil and/or Kaja Foglio doing some tarot illustrations a while back, around the same time they were doing illustrations for Magic: The Gathering. Anyone seen these?

Do you actually like Kaja Foglio's illustrations? I've only ever seen her Magic cards, but I always thought they were pretty ugly.

[ChristineR]

I used to read them, and was told I was quite good at it. All the ritual and double talk certainly helps.

[RSLancastr]

What repulsive-looking things! Second rate applied-art at best.To each their own.

[JoeTheJuggler]

There was a story in one of the skeptic magazines not so long ago (within the last year or so?) about a woman who collected Tarot cards and then ended up doing readings while in Latinamerica. I don't remember much else.

Someone with fewer destroyed brain cells or a handy copy of that mag might be able to say more about it.

[ChristineR]

There was a story in one of the skeptic magazines not so long ago (within the last year or so?) about a woman who collected Tarot cards and then ended up doing readings while in Latinamerica. I don't remember much else.

Someone with fewer destroyed brain cells or a handy copy of that mag might be able to say more about it.

Yeah, I have that. They aren't Tarot cards but actually just Poker cards with more romantic drawings (cups for hearts for example). She made a prediction which was both vague and incorrect and people started flocking to her. She predicted that a household would get money; what actually happened is that the woman's daughter died and the ex-husband gave the mother money to pay expenses. But it was enough to get her a reputation as a seer.

[Dancing David]

Some illustrators give their artwork to printers of Tarot cards. These are collected by hobbyists. Anyone in here collect those colorful cards?


I do, I like the Crowley Deck and the Pallidine deck, there are some that are cool.

[Dancing David]

I love Tarot decks, although I only own a couple. I prefer the older pre-Rider-Waite decks. As odd as this sounds, Rider and Waite really distorted the woo, including such extraneous stuff as astrology, numerology, pre-Rosetta stone junk Egyptology, and the Kabbala, and changed a lot of the imagery to match what they claimed was the original mystical meaning.

The exact origins of the original imagery are obscure, but they seem to include some sort of renaissance Christian cosmology and are divided into earthly, spiritual, and heavenly powers. They may also represent some sort of parade or pageant based around the same thing (possibly a pre-lenten, Mardi Gras parade) and the models may be really members of the family who owned the two oldest known Tarot sets.

And the regular number cards are just as fascinating, but I won't get started on them. :)


The Kaballah and the tarot are linked through the tree of life.

[Dancing David]

Okay, now how many of you actually use them??

I do as a way of communicating with myself and rummaging around in the intuitive side of my being.

[sthomson]

Okay, now how many of you actually use them??

I've let my friend read tarot cards for me - it wasn't terribly accurate, which was surprising as we'd known each other for several years.

[RSLancastr]

They aren't Tarot cards but actually just Poker cards with more romantic drawings (cups for hearts for example).

Both standard Italian decks and standard Spanish decks use Cups for one of the suits.

The deck which most of the Enlish-speaking world is familiar (hearts, clubs, diamonds, spades) is the French suit system (http://www.pagat.com/class/french.html).

There are other standard suit-systems, such as:

Latin (Spanish): swords, cudgels, cups and coins (http://www.pagat.com/class/latin.html)

Latin (Italian): swords, sticks, cups and coins (http://www.pagat.com/class/latin.html)

German: acorns, leaves, heart and bells (http://www.pagat.com/class/german.html)

Swiss: acornd, flowers, shields and bells (http://www.pagat.com/class/swiss.html)

[TheDoLittle]

Loved their Xxxenophile deck!!:D


I'm glad I'm not the only pervert who liked that comic, but I'll one better you...

So far I think I'm the only person who owns a set of Xxxenohile ButtenMen... or one who willingly admits it!! 8-)

[TheDoLittle]

Do you actually like Kaja Foglio's illustrations? I've only ever seen her Magic cards, but I always thought they were pretty ugly.


Not as much as Phil's. It's well agreed his illustrations are far superior than hers, but also quite a few people agree she's better with color (I also seem to remember him saying something to that effect in an interview).

[TheDoLittle]

Okay, now how many of you actually use them??


I used several cards from a deck given to me as a palette to mix paint. I do a lot of miniature painting and the slick coating of the card didn't absorb the paint.

[Gr8wight]

Both standard Italian decks and standard Spanish decks use Cups for one of the suits.

The deck which most of the Enlish-speaking world is familiar (hearts, clubs, diamonds, spades) is the French suit system (http://www.pagat.com/class/french.html).

There are other standard suit-systems, such as:

Latin (Spanish): swords, cudgels, cups and coins (http://www.pagat.com/class/latin.html)

Latin (Italian): swords, sticks, cups and coins (http://www.pagat.com/class/latin.html)

German: acorns, leaves, heart and bells (http://www.pagat.com/class/german.html)

Swiss: acornd, flowers, shields and bells (http://www.pagat.com/class/swiss.html)

My in-laws are Italian, and we play several card games with the Italian cards. May I just point out that 'cudgels' and 'sticks' are synonyms, and are also synonymous with 'clubs'? Also, we call the fourth suit 'suns' instead of 'coins'.

Regarding tarot art, I am a member at Bright Weavings (http://www.brightweavings.com/), the official website for the author Guy Gavriel Kay. A fan there illustrated her own tarot deck using characters from Kay's Fionavar Trilogy. Fionavar Tarot (http://www.brightweavings.com/funstuff/tarot.htm).

[RSLancastr]

May I just point out that 'cudgels' and 'sticks' are synonyms, and are also synonymous with 'clubs'?They may be synonymous, but the Spanish cudgles (bastos) look like the kind of clubs your comicbook cavemen carry. The Italian sticks/rods (bastoni) are very thin.

As far as the "clubs" in a French-suited deck, I am not even certain why they are called clubs. In French, they are called clovers (trefle').


Also, we call the fourth suit 'suns' instead of 'coins'.

In Italy, they call them money (denari).

In Spanish-speaking countries, they call them golds (oros).

[karmicserenade]

Well I have to say it is interesting when doing a reading for a relative stranger, often cards come up that apply to them, but then again, you could say any card would apply to you if you looked hard enough. I own a set of rune stones, those are really interesting, I bought them in goldstone, pretty pretty :)

[Kell]

My favourite deck is John Coulthart's Major Arcana:

http://www.johncoulthart.com/pantechnicon/tarot.html

And for the ultimate arty look, Dave McKean:

http://www.elsewhere.org/tarot/vertigo/

[LotusMegami]

I have the Gay Tarot.

I am a straight female. I just had to have it. It's a gay tarot.

Surprisingly deep symbolism, more about what it means to be a man, than actually about being gay.

Still, gay tarot. Dude.

[Apology]

I have a "Cat People" Tarot deck. Even though I once knew how to do readings with the Rider-Waite deck, I never did figure out how to do a "Cat People" reading. The cards are pretty, I guess. They were a gift, and since the initial presentation I haven't taken them out of the box.

[RSLancastr]

I have the Gay Tarot.Card Tricks Playing Cards (http://members.aol.com/rslancastr/blgupc/cardtric/deck.htm)

[Agent : Orange]

Someone beat me to it. The only Tarot deck I was ever interested in finding was Dave McKean's kickass Vertigo deck. Beautiful stuff.

[Aquila]

I colored the major arcana of the bota.org tarot deck - (similar to the Rider deck) about 30 years ago and started to study the Qabalah with their correspondence course.

[philebus]

Just a new member browsing some old threads....

I've got quite a modest collection, maybe 50 packs so far. While a lot of the modern packs look rather ugly to my eye, there are still many that are great fun, if not beautiful.

karmicserenade asked if any uses them...the answer is yes and whenever I can - I'm quite good at it.

Tarot is the best family of card games I have ever played - seriously, forget Poker, forget Bridge. Tarot is the one to try. It seems so sad to me that the games are not better known and just how many falsehoods are floating around out there in print and on the net - even the Encyclopedia entry on this site is riddled with errors.

Tarot cards were created for games and were not used for anything else for 350 years. I'm glad to say that around 25 games that I know of are still played in about a dozen countries in Europe. Most of the games are now played with a French suited Tarot pack, these are very popular in France with a huge variety of novel designs - from Asterix, Droopy, XIII, to regional costumes, and stamps. The old Italian designs are still used in Italy, Sicily, and Switzerland. (and by those of us who prefer them)

I believe the best way to fight the myths is with a combination of education and demonstration. Right now, all folk recognise tarot for is the occult, it's time we gave English speakers a new association.

For anyone interested, look for books by Michael Dummett on the history of the games and the occult traditions. And yes, that's Michael Dummett the philosopher.

As for the games themselves, I think the forum requires that I make some more posts before I can include links and such but it shouldn't take you long on Google to find some rules.

The best games to start with are:

Scarto
the old four handed Tarocchi
and the French Jeu de Tarot (best version of this is the 5 player)

Some of my favourites are:

Point Tarock - just brilliant!
Straw Man Tarock - a good 2 hander
Ottocento - the KING of all card games

There are also a few good web-stores for you to buy cards from (ottocento requires a special pack, the Tarocchino, also called the Tarocco Bolognese).

[Babbylonian]

When I was just out of high school, I was still a bit wooish (though coming out of it rather quickly) and bought an Arthurian tarot set. I would read folks' fortunes at a Shari's restaurant (24-hour diner if you don't know the name) for funsies. I found I was quite good at cold reading (didn't know the term, though) and amazing the credulous. Fortunately, I didn't decide at that point to dedicate the rest of my life to doing so, though I'll admit that in retrospect the money probably would have been pretty good - one late-night diner actually offered me money to read her cards, which I declined. If only I didn't have a sense of self-respect...

Slightly more on point, I quite liked the art of my Arthurian deck, and enjoyed the links between the tarot imagery and the legends of the round table. This allowed much richer readings, which probably helped sell my line of BS.

[philebus]

It seems to me from a couple of the tarot forums that readers tend to have a large collection so as to have a pack that will appeal to every customer or customer's question. The range is huge now, with publishers getting as many as ten new packs onto the market each year!

For myself, I tend to prefer packs using the traditional Italian designs with un-illustrated pips. It isn't just because that's better for game play, I really do find them very attractive. Something I didn't see mentioned in the earlier talk of battons and clubs was that in the earliest playing cards we have, that came to us via the Islamic world, battons were in fact polo sticks.

[korenyx]

Yeah, I have that. They aren't Tarot cards but actually just Poker cards with more romantic drawings (cups for hearts for example). She made a prediction which was both vague and incorrect and people started flocking to her. She predicted that a household would get money; what actually happened is that the woman's daughter died and the ex-husband gave the mother money to pay expenses. But it was enough to get her a reputation as a seer.


I remember that story. The writer was told by the local women that she needed to charge more and people would think she was really good.

[-Fran-]

I have two as well. One in Art Nouveau style, and the other is Crowley's deck.

Okay, now how many of you actually use them??

I used to for about 15 years ago, I think, when I was in my early 20s. I bought the Crowley deck I mentioned above because of the art work and became curious about how to use it as well. Learning their meaning and starting to use them and observing my own reactions as well as the reactions of people I read them to was a great way for me to come to an understanding of that it's total BS :) I learned what cold reading is, though I had no idea the term existed back then. It was a game to me but I stopped cold when I realized that it wasn't a game to some of the people I read for.

This was a common process for me when I was younger (in my teens and early 20s). I bought something simply because I found it beautiful - heard there were some ideas around it - found out what the ideas were/how it was supposed to work - realized it was BS - Put pretty thing on shelf - bought another :)

Unfortunately I am like a crow when it comes to shiny pwetty things :o but it's just objects and any supernatural traits they possess is purely in the eyes of the woo - not real.

[philebus]

The Crowley pack was one of my first packs, mainly because, at the time, it was one of the few packs with pip cards that was easy to obtain. It is one of the most beautiful though and was one of the caused of my getting bitten by the collector's bug.

The trouble is now that I've discovered shopping from French ebayers is not so hard, there are sooooo many novel French suited packs available. One of my favourites was created to celebrate the bicentenary of the revolution - but it is such a mainstream game there that you get as many designs on French tarot as you find in Poker packs. Even Rugby, if that's your thing! Another great pack to look for was commisioned by the perfumery company, Lanvin - its not too hard to get and a bit chic for the right occasion.

Another source of great tarot cards is now asia - tarot is very popular now in Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong. Many of the packs are rather manga-ish, a lot are produced as promotional fodder for video games. However, there are some very nice cards out there if you look - I'm happy to say that they are usually un-illustrated pip cards lacking much occultist influence and so great for game play.

[-Fran-]

The Crowley pack was one of my first packs, mainly because, at the time, it was one of the few packs with pip cards that was easy to obtain. It is one of the most beautiful though and was one of the caused of my getting bitten by the collector's bug.


Yes, I still like the artwork very much. The Death card is my favorite.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1720247e2abba87f15.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=11348)

[arthwollipot]

It seems to me from a couple of the tarot forums that readers tend to have a large collection so as to have a pack that will appeal to every customer or customer's question. The range is huge now, with publishers getting as many as ten new packs onto the market each year!That's odd, because when I was into the woo, I was told that each person was supposed to choose a particular deck and stick to it because that increases the woo you have invested in the deck. Higher woo score means better results. You also were never supposed to buy a deck for yourself. You had to have someone give it to you.

Since this is the woo-rules, I suppose that the rational people ignore them. I suppose that's where the market is.

My deck, left over from those days, is the Norse Tarot, which anyone who knows me will understand. It's got beautiful illustrations which are deeply symbolic. I also have a miniature Rider-Waite deck that I don't use very often.

[philebus]

I hadn't heard about sticking to a particular pack but I had heard about not buying one for yourself - it would be interesting to know where this notion came from, I'm not aware of it being a part of the teachings from any of the major occult schools. Not buying a pack for yourself is no longer adhered to by the occult tarotists - I think that the tarot industry has probably had something to do with that. It really is an industry now! If you take a look at the largest tarot forum (I can't link yet but a quick google will get you there) you'll find that many of the readers have massive collections, sometimes in the thousands! There is one tarot reader there who has different reading table settings for each pack - table cloths, crystals, lighting, ornaments, etc to fit with the designs.

Of course, I will try to match a pack to someone I'm trying to teach the games to - if I find a design I know they will enjoy, then they are more likely to give them a go.