Tour of the new 7 WTC (and math lesson)

[Kryptos]

This past Saturday, I had the opportunity to spent time at the new 7 World Trade Center. The New York Academy of Sciences (NYAS) held tours of their office on the 40th floor. There was also a special talk on Saturday about the lighting features of the building. I have now posted photos from the tour, as well as some from last year from a visit to the 45th floor, where there was a photography exhibit. The 45th floor was, and I think still is unfinished. Various other photos of the buildings are also included.

I think it's useful to see the 45th floor (unfinished) compared to the 40th floor (finished). It cost $700 million for Larry Silverstein to build the new 7 WTC, but that's with all the floors unfinished. What's not figured in that price tag is that each floor needs to be finished and set-up for whatever needs the tenants have. The designers/architects who finished the space for the NYAS were on hand on Saturday. They explained that it cost $12 million to finish the 40th floor for the NYAS. In all, there are 42 floors of space to lease in the building. (along with the mechanical space used by Con Edison)

$12 million * 42 = $502 million.

$700 million (cost of the building) + $502 million = $1.3 billion

Silverstein received $861 million from insurance on the old building, however he had $400 million remaining in mortgage to pay off for the old building. He was left with $461 million. Also, he still has to pay the the ground lease for WTC7 and the rest of the complex. ($102 million annually) - that's $612 million since 9/11/2001

Also, it cost $1.4 billion to restore the adjacent Verizon Building, which was heavily damaged by the collapse of WTC7. Fiterman Hall, located next to WTC7, is currently undergoing deconstruction, and will be replaced with a new building. I'm not sure how much all that costs.

Do the math. In all, very substantial costs involved due to the collapse of WTC7, rather than people making a profit from insurance proceeds.

Anyway, the photos are posted here: (be patient for the page to load all images)
http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/index.php?title=WTC7_gallery

Same photos are also posted on Flickr (this may be faster):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kmf164/sets/72157602303813663/

[Kryptos]

To add, the $12 million (per floor) is paid by the tenants.

[Kryptos]

Anyway, the photos are posted here: (be patient for the page to load all images)
http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/index.php?title=WTC7_gallery


The page will likely be slow to load, but please tell me if it loads too slowly. It could be split into multiple pages.

Or, try Flickr.

[LashL]

Excellent photos, Kryptos, thanks for sharing them.

(Btw, the page loaded quickly for me, no complaints at all.)

[Magenta]

Interesting. Thanks for the photos. I've never seen timber flooring in that kind of building before - was there a particular reason for that choice?

[OldTigerCub]

It will undoubtedly be a while before Silverstein is really back in the black after all the rebuilding is done. It is nice too see such a majestic building rise from the ashes, though.
Very nice pictures, kryptos! The flickr site worked very well for me. Thanks for posting them.:)

[Kryptos]

Interesting. Thanks for the photos. I've never seen timber flooring in that kind of building before - was there a particular reason for that choice?

I'm not sure the reason. That flooring is used only in the NYAS lobby and the elevator bank. I do know that most of the furnishings (including the flooring) are made from recycled materials - keeping with the building's green design.

Also, should note that the doors to the lobby have special 2-hour fire rating. Was told these doors were difficult to find - to find something that didn't look like it came from a prison.

The flooring (the carpet) used in the lecture room is also special. The pattern is DNA double helix, which is appropriate for the NYAS.

So, safety and green design were factors. And, incorporating design elements suited to the NYAS.

[LashL]

I am also intrigued by the elevator access system. I.e., the system of having to punch in the number of the floor you seek to travel to before you enter the elevator, and having no obvious access to anything to over-ride that once you are in the elevator.

I suspect that there are several levels of security built into that system, some of which will be more fully utilized once the building is more fully occupied, but did you happen to notice a card access system in conjunction with the elevator access while you were there? For instance, did someone have to insert (or wave in front of a sensor) a security card in order to get the elevator access system to accept their input of floor 40?


ETA: I think your photos answered my question - is that a card reading mechanism/sensor below the keypad outside the elevator in the lobby?

[Kryptos]

I am also intrigued by the elevator access system. I.e., the system of having to punch in the number of the floor you seek to travel to before you enter the elevator, and having no obvious access to anything to over-ride that once you are in the elevator.

I suspect that there are several levels of security built into that system, some of which will be more fully utilized once the building is more fully occupied, but did you happen to notice a card access system in conjunction with the elevator access while you were there? For instance, did someone have to insert a security card in order to get the elevator access system to accept their input of floor 40?

The elevator system is a "destination elevator system". It's used in many new buildings, designed to save people time.

In my own office building, I only work on the 7th floor (out of 8 floors), but it sucks to get in the elevator with so many other people who press all the other buttons. Takes forever to stop at each floor!

Now imagine 52 floors. You notice the specific elevator bank is for floors 38-45. Grouping people by elevator bank helps save time to start with. How the system works is that you enter the floor in the keypad. It then tells you which elevator to ride in. It will group people going to all the same floor together, minimizing the number of times the elevator needs to stop at on the way to one's floor. The system isn't a security feature, so much as it makes things more efficient.

To improve upon this more, there is some security or convenience built in. If you work for the NYAS, you have a badge, with an electronic chip inside. You swipe this as you go through the turnstile, entering the building. The elevators are smart. From your badge, they know you work on the 40th floor, will automatically call the 40th floor, and come quicker. (you can use the keypad override that)

And there are a few buttons inside the elevator, for use in case of an emergency. So, you won't get trapped inside.

[gumboot]

The PriceWaterhouseCoopers Tower in Auckland uses the same elevator system, which I'm pretty familiar with because the tower (the flashiest in Auckland - PriceWaterhouseCoopers are forensic accountants) is a favourite location for film crews.

The system takes some people a while to get used to, but once you have the hang of it, it's really pretty good.

In this particular building only certain floors are accessible to the public - those being ones at which the various tenants (at least those that have general public visiting them) have their reception levels (the tenants have their own security doors leading off from the central elevator lobby on each floor). Employees have security swipe cards that grant them access to other floors and after hours (each employee's card will only access the specific floors they work at).

According to the guy from Schindler who we had on set at the last job, these sorts of elevator systems are increasingly common, with some towers upgrading older elevator systems to this new one - at a cost of many millions of dollars (bear in mind our buildings here in NZ are tiny by NYC standards).

-Gumboot

[LashL]

The elevator system is a "destination elevator system". It's used in many new buildings, designed to save people time.

In my own office building, I only work on the 7th floor (out of 8 floors), but it sucks to get in the elevator with so many other people who press all the other buttons. Takes forever to stop at each floor!

Now imagine 52 floors. You notice the specific elevator bank is for floors 38-45. Grouping people by elevator bank helps save time to start with. How the system works is that you enter the floor in the keypad. It then tells you which elevator to ride in. It will group people going to all the same floor together, minimizing the number of times the elevator needs to stop at on the way to one's floor. The system isn't a security feature, so much as it makes things more efficient.

To improve upon this more, there is some security or convenience built in. If you work for the NYAS, you have a badge, with an electronic chip inside. You swipe this as you go through the turnstile, entering the building. The elevators are smart. From your badge, they know you work on the 40th floor, will automatically call the 40th floor, and come quicker. (you can use the keypad override that)

And there are a few buttons inside the elevator, for use in case of an emergency. So, you won't get trapped inside.

I worked for several years (until last year) in a 57 storey tall building so, yes, I am familiar with elevator banks and specific elevators stopping only on specific floors. In my building (Commerce Court West in Toronto), during regular business hours, anybody could take the elevators to certain (but not all) floors (although there would be no access to anything but the elevator landing space in many of them as the doors to the actual office space required security cards, except for "reception" floors, for instance), but if you wanted to go to various other floors, you had to wave your security card in front of a sensor. If your card was not coded for that floor, the elevator would not stop on that floor.

After regular business hours, a person could not get an elevator to go anywhere at all except the ground floor without the appropriate security card being read by the scanner in the appropriate elevator. My card, for instance, would permit me access only to the ground floor and to the 11 floors that my firm occupied. So, during the day, I could get to the reception floors of another law firm or a financial firm, for instance, without needing a card, but after hours, I could not get to those floors independently since my card was programmed for access only to the floors occupied by my own firm.

(Mind you, in CCW, you do not have to wave your card to enter the building during regular business hours and, quite understandably, the security in NYC highrises is more stringent than that.)

However, when the firm was hosting various events in the evening, it would notify security and the elevators in our elevator bank would be reprogrammed so that they would stop at our main reception floor to allow our guests to get there (after being checked in by security) without having to have someone continuously going up and down to accompany them with an access card.


Anyway, back to the WTC7 elevators. How does the elevator "group people going to all the same floor together"? Assuming there are a couple of dozen people waiting for elevators in that bank that goes from 38-45 and assuming that they have all punched in the floors they want to go to, then what? Is there some readout for each elevator that shows the people which elevator to go to? Does each individual elevator in the bank flash numbers to indicate which floors it is going to stop on for this particular trip, based on what people have inputted to that keypad?

If that is the case, then do all of the people waiting at that elevator bank of, say, half a dozen elevators have to regroup to find the correct elevator among the half dozen elevators in that bank that will take them to the floor they want? That sounds complicated. Especially since, in this case, the bank of elevators travel only from 38-45.

In any event, this is all quite interesting to me as I have developed a bit of a fascination with elevator systems in recent years, so this is something that I will certainly want to look into further. Yeah, I'm weird. ;)

[Magenta]

The flooring (the carpet) used in the lecture room is also special. The pattern is DNA double helix, which is appropriate for the NYAS.

So, safety and green design were factors. And, incorporating design elements suited to the NYAS.


Ah, I didn't notice the double helix; I just thought the carpet looked a bit "busy". But an appropriate choice for the tenant.


In any event, this is all quite interesting to me as I have developed a bit of a fascination with elevator systems in recent years, so this is something that I will certainly want to look into further. Yeah, I'm weird. ;)


One building I worked in had "talking" lifts to announce the floors - always reminded me of Schwarzenegger in Terminator mode. :eek:

[LashL]

One building I worked in had "talking" lifts to announce the floors - always reminded me of Schwarzenegger in Terminator mode. :eek:


Hee hee. Some of our local courthouses here have talking elevators to announce the floors too, in both English and French, no less. :) (It's an accessibility issue in governmental buildings - the audio is to augment the braille to assist the blind)

ETA: I just wish they would use a less annoying, less whiny (whinging) voice.

[gumboot]

Anyway, back to the WTC7 elevators. How does the elevator "group people going to all the same floor together"? Assuming there are a couple of dozen people waiting for elevators in that bank that goes from 38-45 and assuming that they have all punched in the floors they want to go to, then what? Is there some readout for each elevator that shows the people which elevator to go to? Does each individual elevator in the bank flash numbers to indicate which floors it is going to stop on for this particular trip, based on what people have inputted to that keypad?

If that is the case, then do all of the people waiting at that elevator bank of, say, half a dozen elevators have to regroup to find the correct elevator among the half dozen elevators in that bank that will take them to the floor they want? That sounds complicated. Especially since, in this case, the bank of elevators travel only from 38-45.

In any event, this is all quite interesting to me as I have developed a bit of a fascination with elevator systems in recent years, so this is something that I will certainly want to look into further. Yeah, I'm weird. ;)


After you punch in the floor you want, the screen will display the number of the elevator you need to board. In addition, the doorways to the elevator will display the floor numbers it is going to stop at.

-Gumboot

[Kryptos]

I worked for several years (until last year) in a 57 storey tall building so, yes, I am familiar with elevator banks and specific elevators stopping only on specific floors. In my building (Commerce Court West in Toronto), during regular business hours, anybody could take the elevators to certain (but not all) floors (although there would be no access to anything but the elevator landing space in many of them as the doors to the actual office space required security cards, except for "reception" floors, for instance), but if you wanted to go to various other floors, you had to wave your security card in front of a sensor. If your card was not coded for that floor, the elevator would not stop on that floor.

After regular business hours, a person could not get an elevator to go anywhere at all except the ground floor without the appropriate security card being read by the scanner in the appropriate elevator. My card, for instance, would permit me access only to the ground floor and to the 11 floors that my firm occupied. So, during the day, I could get to the reception floors of another law firm or a financial firm, for instance, without needing a card, but after hours, I could not get to those floors independently since my card was programmed for access only to the floors occupied by my own firm.

(Mind you, in CCW, you do not have to wave your card to enter the building during regular business hours and, quite understandably, the security in NYC highrises is more stringent than that.)

However, when the firm was hosting various events in the evening, it would notify security and the elevators in our elevator bank would be reprogrammed so that they would stop at our main reception floor to allow our guests to get there (after being checked in by security) without having to have someone continuously going up and down to accompany them with an access card.


Anyway, back to the WTC7 elevators. How does the elevator "group people going to all the same floor together"? Assuming there are a couple of dozen people waiting for elevators in that bank that goes from 38-45 and assuming that they have all punched in the floors they want to go to, then what? Is there some readout for each elevator that shows the people which elevator to go to? Does each individual elevator in the bank flash numbers to indicate which floors it is going to stop on for this particular trip, based on what people have inputted to that keypad?

If that is the case, then do all of the people waiting at that elevator bank of, say, half a dozen elevators have to regroup to find the correct elevator among the half dozen elevators in that bank that will take them to the floor they want? That sounds complicated. Especially since, in this case, the bank of elevators travel only from 38-45.

In any event, this is all quite interesting to me as I have developed a bit of a fascination with elevator systems in recent years, so this is something that I will certainly want to look into further. Yeah, I'm weird. ;)

How do people know which elevator to take? I think once you enter it on the keypad, it tells you on the keypad display, as well as at each elevator. How it works with a badge? There is a small display on the turnstiles, which tells the person which elevator car to take. I think the floor destination is also displayed at each elevator car.

On Saturday, everyone was going to the same floor, so it was simple. I'm sure there are many programming options for the elevators. I know with the lighting, there are fancy programming features, with the ability to make them different colors. Not sure exactly how they manage security with the elevators, but sure they have something worked out.

[gumboot]

Just a question, from the pictures it looks like WTC7 has the same open-plan structural design that the towers had, with a core, exterior columns, and nothing in between.

Is this correct?

-Gumboot

[LashL]

After you punch in the floor you want, the screen will display the number of the elevator you need to board. In addition, the doorways to the elevator will display the floor numbers it is going to stop at.

-Gumboot

Very interesting. So, if you're standing in the landing area of a bank of, say 6 or 8 elevators cars, with 30 or so other people, does that mean that everyone has to sort themselves to move to the elevators that correspond to the numbers that are displayed on the screens of each of those elevators (and presumably, a certain percentage of people waiting in the landing area will not be standing directly in front of the elevator whose keypad they entered their destination on)?

[gumboot]

Very interesting. So, if you're standing in the landing area of a bank of, say 6 or 8 elevators cars, with 30 or so other people, does that mean that everyone has to sort themselves to move to the elevators that correspond to the numbers that are displayed on the screens of each of those elevators (and presumably, a certain percentage of people waiting in the landing area will not be standing directly in front of the elevator whose keypad they entered their destination on)?


Pretty much. Having said that if you see an elevator with your floor number lit up in its door arch, you don't need to bother dialing in a floor on the key pad.

-Gumboot

[Kryptos]

Just posted one more picture. This one of the Freedom Tower construction:

http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/index.php?title=Gallery3

This is comprised of multiple photos stitched together. (I need to restitch - the seams are visible in a few spots)

There are repeat photos here, once every ~6 months going back to January 2006. Plan to keep doing this until the Freedom Tower is completed, along with the other buildings and the memorial.

[Kryptos]

Just a question, from the pictures it looks like WTC7 has the same open-plan structural design that the towers had, with a core, exterior columns, and nothing in between.

Is this correct?

-Gumboot

Yes, the same. I think it's the standard design for any new skyscrapers. (I was at Taipei 101 in August, it was the same way)

However, the core of 7 WTC is made of reinforced concrete, fireproofing much improved, and other safety improvements.

[gumboot]

Yes, the same. I think it's the standard design for any new skyscrapers. (I was at Taipei 101 in August, it was the same way)

However, the core of 7 WTC is made of reinforced concrete, fireproofing much improved, and other safety improvements.


I also noticed that the floor pans are supported by heavy steel beams rather than a lightweight truss assembly.

-Gumboot

[Minadin]

Interesting. Thanks for the photos. I've never seen timber flooring in that kind of building before - was there a particular reason for that choice?

The wood plank floor you see in those pictures is almost certainly not the floor decking material, as you might see in an old apartment building (such as the one I live in). It's almost certainly lain on top of a concrete deck or slab of some sort - if that is your question or the source of your suprise.

There are a number of excellent flooring products that can be used in an office building such as this one which give that wood-plank look. Some are real wood, but a couple of the most popular nowadays are bamboo laminate (http://www.ifloor.com/articles/bamboo/foryou2.html) (which is considered a "green" material since bamboo is actually a grass, which grows very fast, and is a sustainable resource to harvest) and the vinyl LG brand (http://www.lgchem.com/upload/chemProdFile/20070505/naturelifebrochure.pdf) flooring material. (yes, they also make cell phones) Ultimately, in a large office building, the floor finish is the choice of the tenants.

Of course, it's not a real big deal to put in real wood floors, if that's what the tenant really wants, we just don't do it as often as the LG floors, the vinyl ones look about as good, really better in the long term, because they're more durable. Also, many of the offices we do are medical, and the vinyl is easier to scrub and keep clean.

[LashL]

Pretty much. Having said that if you see an elevator with your floor number lit up in its door arch, you don't need to bother dialing in a floor on the key pad.

-Gumboot

Cool. Now, I'm going to be on the lookout for a nearby building with a similar system in place, just so that I can experience it for myself.

So far, none of the towers in the financial district of Toronto have such a system, to my knowledge. Sure, they have high speed (some so fast that it makes you dizzy, until you get acclimatized to it), and sure, some of them have live television feeds (because god forbid that you aren't entertained during that 30-60 second trip), and sure, some of them have live stock exchange tickers (because god forbid that you miss that during the said 30-60 trip), but none of them have the system that the new WTC7 has or that the PWC in Auckland has.

Perhaps when Donald Trump gets around to actually building his new tower at Bay and Adelaide... (construction is supposed to start soon)

[Magenta]

The wood plank floor you see in those pictures is almost certainly not the floor decking material, as you might see in an old apartment building (such as the one I live in). It's almost certainly lain on top of a concrete deck or slab of some sort - if that is your question or the source of your suprise.


Yeah, I realised it would be laid over concrete. I think it looks good. I'm not a big fan of carpet but I suppose in some ways it's more practical for an office.