Interesting article on religious zealotry at home and abroad...

[Andonyx]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030830/DOUG30/TPColumnists/


The Iranian cab driver was taking me across one of the largest Persian cities when he confessed that he had become worried about his country's fate.
"Everywhere there is religion," he told me. "This is the most religious place anywhere. This should be the most modern country in the world, but the politicians want God to run everything."

...

The only thing surprising about this conversation was that it took place in Los Angeles, home to hundreds of thousands of expatriate Iranians, and the subject of my taxi driver's complaints was the United States.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Andonyx
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030830/DOUG30/TPColumnists/Very intesting comparison.

[hgc]

Though I am aligned with the sentiments of this article regarding the invocation of religion by public officials, the author doesn't apparently know much about the subject. He claims that fundementalism was invented by American Christians, and then picked up on by Islamic fundementalists. That's just silly.
These similarities aren't coincidental. Fundamentalism, both word and concept, was invented by American Protestants in the early 20th century, during the heated debate between creationists and evolutionists. The term first appeared as a battle cry in a 1920 issue of the Northern Baptist newspaper The Watchman-Examiner.

By the 1950s, Rev. Jerry Falwell was able to declare: "I am a fundamentalist, and that means that I am a soul-winner and a separatist." By that time, Islamic scholars in Egypt had begun to pay attention to this movement, and to copy both its rhetoric and its radically anti-secular goals.

[Andonyx]

Originally posted by hgc
Though I am aligned with the sentiments of this article regarding the invocation of religion by public officials, the author doesn't apparently know much about the subject. He claims that fundementalism was invented by American Christians, and then picked up on by Islamic fundementalists. That's just silly.


I'd be interested in hearing more about that.

I thought protestants in general were the more iteral interpretation than say Catholics, but that goes back to the great schism.

Now were you talking about fundamentalism in concept, or in nomeclature?

[hgc]

Originally posted by Andonyx


I'd be interested in hearing more about that.

I thought protestants in general were the more iteral interpretation than say Catholics, but that goes back to the great schism.

Now were you talking about fundamentalism in concept, or in nomeclature? I was talking about fundementalism in concept. Nomenclature is probably irrelevant, since Islamic fundementalism presumably has a name in Arabic that may or may not translate directly to the English word, and in any case probably would not have been named after the American concept even if the concept were to have been picked up from here.

The point is that Islamic fundementalism in its most popular forms today was born in Egypt and Arabia around the turn of the century or a little later. But even that is a very loose assertion, since it had precedence and influence from throughout Muslim history. As a matter of fact, the same can be said for Christian fundementalism.

[Tony]

When christians around the world start calling america the great satan and chanting death to america ill agree there is reason to worry. But until then, stuff like this is just scare mongering.

[Yahzi]

Originally posted by Tony
When christians around the world start calling america the great satan and chanting death to america ill agree there is reason to worry. But until then, stuff like this is just scare mongering.
Dude... your cluelessness is staggering.

The time to worry is when Americans start chanting death to, well, anybody, because Americans have nuclear weapons.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Yahzi

Dude... your cluelessness is staggering.

The time to worry is when Americans start chanting death to, well, anybody, because Americans have nuclear weapons.

Your mental retardation is staggering. What the hell are you talking about? The article is about christian fundamentalism.

[evildave]

"Scare Mongering"?

All the article does is observe that there are a LOT of American Christians that want as much of a theocracy as any wacky Shi'ite would.

A few more quotes:

"Let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good.... If a Christian voted for Clinton, he sinned against God. It's that simple.... Our goal is a Christian Nation... we have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want Pluralism. We want theocracy. Theocracy means God rules. I've got a hot flash. God rules." (Randall Terry, Head of Operation Rescue, Fort Wayne, Indiana, Aug 15, 1993)

"When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. `What do you mean?' the media challenged me. `You're not going to bring atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo-Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?' My simple answer is, `Yes, they are.'"
(Pat Robertson "The New World Order," page 218)

There is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that sanctifies the separation of church and state. (Pat Robertson, October 2, 1984, "700 Club")

You say, "You're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that and the other thing" - nonsense! I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the anti-Christ! I can love the people who hold false opinions, but I don't have to be nice to them. (Pat Robertson, January 14, 1991, "700 Club")

[The United States is] a once-Christian nation that has been force-fed the poisons of paganism. (Pat Buchanan, Right from the Beginning, 1988)

Every one of is called to be one of God's priests. When you walk into your [school] building, you can claim it for Christ. (Forrest Turpen, Christian Educators Association International, Hartford Currant, summer 1988)

The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. (Pat Robertson, Summer 1992 fund-raising letter)

[Tony]

Thanks Dave,

Im not denying that there are some wack-jobs that want a theocracy, but read between the lines. By comparing christians in america with muslim fundies abroad, the author is implying that they (the christians) would go to the same lengths to achieve it. I have yet to see evidence of that.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Tony
By comparing christians in america with muslim fundies abroad, the author is implying that they (the christians) would go to the same lengths to achieve it. I have yet to see evidence of that. I think abortion clinic shootings and bombings are a pretty good example of Christian fundamentalist extremism. In the back of my head, I want to say that I've even heard of a suicide bombing of an abortion clinic, but I can't remember where or when that was.

Before that, there was also the KKK, which was another extremist Christian group.

There is evidence out there, it's just that Christian fundamentalism extremists aren't as prevailant in our culture as it is in some other countries. We must be careful that that ration doesn't shift or we could be facing a domestic Taliban-like group. If Robertson had his way, we would have one.