Has Jedi Knight Served in the US Military?

[Starshark]

I hope this counts as 'current events'. The reason I started this thread is to give Aswang's thread a break. If you want to have a look at how this whole argument began, take a look by clicking on the link in my sig-line.

Basically, a few people believe there is no way JK has served in the US military. Or, if he has served in the US military, he's never seen action as he claims.

Never mind the fact that he comes across as a spoiled juvenile. Never mind that he seems to treat the subject of killing human beings as if he were a real-life Rambo (minus the 'stong but silent' disposition). Never mind that, for someone who's ex-military, he sure seems to have trouble holding down a job right now (otherwise, why is he always on the forum all the time?). The fact is, he's been caught out with factual errors and inconsistencies time and again.

But maybe we've all got it wrong. What do you think?

Yes, you!

No, not the person behind you, you.

Don't pretend you didn't read this.
















Hmmm, late for my medication.

Here's an easy way to prove your challenge. Come up with an amusing anecdote while on duty, during a theatre of war. You don't have to give an anecdote that involves you directly. It could be a funny story like the time the mess hall cook served horse to the unpopular soldier in the squad (although, again, the story doesn't have to involve you). Give approximate dates. Exact isn't necessary.

When you've done that, give us the names of three people who were in your squad/corps/division whatever. They do not have to be people who know you. All they have to do is give third party verification of your story. Don't bother getting your school-friends to pretend to be your 'war buddies'. Also don't bother finding an anecdote on the 'net. Any anecdote published on the 'net is void. Ditto in military magazines, etc.

Any other vets might like to back me up by giving JK an example of a war story. Normally, I wouldn't need to give a so-called vet an example, but in JK's case I think he needs a rough idea of what one looks like.

(edited to post challenge on this thread, so everyone knows what JK has to do to prove service)

[Jedi Knight]

Hmm...another fan site. :D

JK

[ZeeGerman]

Personally, I miss one option

"I couldn't care less"

Zee

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by ZeeGerman
Personally, I miss one option

"I couldn't care less"

Zee
Liar! You love JK and that is why you visited this thread!

I believe JK has served and seen action.

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by Starshark
Basically, a few people believe there is no way JK has served in the US military. Or, if he has served in the US military, he's never seen action as he claims.

What is it you expect him to provide as proof?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Wayne Grabert

What is it you expect him to provide as proof?

Wayne, and that isn't even all of what I have done. Let this simmer for awhile then I will post some other accomplishments (non-military) that I have.

JK

[Starshark]

Originally posted by Wayne Grabert

What is it you expect him to provide as proof?

Click the link. It's all in there.

[corplinx]

I'm willing to bet he has at least watched Full Metal Jacket.

[Starshark]

That explains the time I saw him trying to suck a golf ball through 30 feet of garden hose.

[Aardvark_DK]

With all due respect, Starshark, I think this poll is rather silly. I've no idea if JK served, I don't really care, and I don't see what difference it makes. I think he's completely bonkers either way.

[a_unique_person]

I believe he has, was asked to leave, and has not idea how to live a life on his own. If he didn't like all the attention he gets here, even the stuff that puts him down, I would not harass him from time to time.

[Reginald]

Dont ask me why, I just do...still look on the bright side, somewhere on the "opposition" there is an "anti-jedi", opposite but just as extreme in view. Maybe when they interact they will go up in some kind of anihilation with some associated cataclysmic release of angst.

(you have to admit he does add flavour to this board...what flavour I'm not so sure)

[Crossbow]

I think what is going on is that JK has a deep interest in military issues and that he has done some reading, played a few war games, talked to people who have been in the military, and he has watched quite a few movies on the subject but he has not actually been in the military himself.

[Doubt]

Originally posted by Reginald
Dont ask me why, I just do...still look on the bright side, somewhere on the "opposition" there is an "anti-jedi", opposite but just as extreme in view. Maybe when they interact they will go up in some kind of anihilation with some associated cataclysmic release of angst.

(you have to admit he does add flavour to this board...what flavour I'm not so sure)

I believe that flavor is monkey dung.

At best, he got kicked out of AIT. (Advanced Individual Training.)

It is more likely that he never served at all. Probably not physically able to serve.

So far, the only two people here that think he really did serve are those that understand the military the least. The guy is a flake. He has an incredible inferiority complex. He craves whatever attention he can get.

He does do an interesting job of putting together a story. But the small details always give him away. He just cannot get all the small pieces to fit together.

How to spot the frauds?

1.) The real special operators don't brag.

I have crossed paths with a fairly large number of Rangers, Several Special Forces types, and a few SEALS. It has taken a great deal of time and/or beer to get their stories out of them. Usually a lot of time and beer. Some of them never talked.

One of my triathlon training partners is a 60 yr. old SF Veteran. It took 4 years before he started talking. He does not drink, so I just had to wait until he was ready. The guy is pretty amazing. He is now training for the Antarctic marathon.

2.) The small details don't add up.

To catch the small details, you need someone who knows what does and does not make sense. Pretty much anybody who spent a few years in the military knows how the pay grade codes work. Also the word choice and uncommon use of jargon can expose a fraud. Here is an example of correct jargon used in an uncommon way:

"You better get your AO squared away or we will have a GI party and you will catch an ATGM in your fourth point of contact."

All of the above jargon either is or was in common usage by the US army. Nobody would cram that much into one sentence. Also look for jargon used in some unusual context. If someone who claims to have been in the navy uses the term "GI party" in place of "field day", they probably are not what they claim to be.

3.) Refers to having been in specific battles. Cannot or will not provide specific details of their actions.

This refers back to #1 above. If they don't want to talk about what they did, they will not bring up the subject.

4.) The fraud will get evasive when confronted.

It is not normal behavior to avoid presenting proof when challenged. If JK were an honorable person, he would be trying to make his case rather than offering phony bets. I have offered to pay for an FOI act to get his military records. All that is needed is a mutually agreeable neutral party to file the request. Hal Bidlack would have been ideal, but he thinks that it would be inappropriate to get involved.

I repeat my offer. I am willing to pay for the Freedom of Information act request to get the military records of JK. We need a neutral party to submit the request. If JK will provide that person with his needed information, I will fork over the money. No bets needed. I am willing to spend the cash.

The ideal person is a US citizen living in the US who has never served in the military. This person should be a member of the JREF and have been posting here for at least several months. Any volunteers?

[Samus]

Originally posted by Doubt
How to spot the frauds?

1.) The real special operators don't brag.

2.) The small details don't add up.

3.) Refers to having been in specific battles. Cannot or will not provide specific details of their actions.

4.) The fraud will get evasive when confronted. I can back Doubt up on this one, these are all very effective ways to spot a fraud, mainly #1. Spec Ops guys don't talk about what they do, because they don't think they are doing anything overly "special" per se. If you ask, they'll just tell you "hey, this is what we do."

I don't pay enough attention to Jedi's posts, so I'm not going to vote on whether he's a fraud or not. And I'm certainly not interested enough to make a FOIA request. Even if he does have his head up his six :)

[Tmy]

I'm fairly new to the place. When I first arrived I assumed that JK was some punk high schooler.

I'm guessing he may have been in ROTC or somthing. As for his war stories...they're entertaining, but Im sure I faced more danger on my childhood paper route.

[ManCow]

Let's face it, the guy doesn't know the difference between a Petty Officer, a Flag Officer, a Warrant Officer, or a Commissioned Officer. ;)

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dwb
I can back Doubt up on this one, these are all very effective ways to spot a fraud, mainly #1. Spec Ops guys don't talk about what they do, because they don't think they are doing anything overly "special" per se. If you ask, they'll just tell you "hey, this is what we do."

I don't pay enough attention to Jedi's posts, so I'm not going to vote on whether he's a fraud or not. And I'm certainly not interested enough to make a FOIA request. Even if he does have his head up his six :)

I was never in spec ops. Just wanted to make that clear. Some of my pals moved on to spec ops and other specialized military branches, but I did not.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by ManCow
Let's face it, the guy doesn't know the difference between a Petty Officer, a Flag Officer, a Warrant Officer, or a Commissioned Officer. ;)

Interesting psychic powers you have. Like other psychics, you are totally 100% wrong.

This "psychic powers' thread really makes the Amazing Jedi pretty happy. So far we have the following psychics who claim special knowledge using their psychic powers that I did not serve in the military:

1) Starshark
2) A_Unique_Person
3) Crossbow
4) Hal Bidlack (really made some anti_jedi psychic predictions lol)
5) Doubt
6) Brother Bluto

If I left anyone out who is claiming psychic powers, please let me know so I can get the list updated.

Does Mr. Randi know that he has so many JREF kids who claim psychic powers? Mr. Randi and I may have to embark on a serious debunking of their claims.

JK

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


I was never in spec ops. Just wanted to make that clear. Some of my pals moved on to spec ops and other specialized military branches, but I did not.

JK
This statement is consistent with others from Jedi I've read.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Wayne Grabert

This statement is consistent with others from Jedi I've read.

What they have done is take my statement that I served in elite units to be misconstrued with being a green beret or some other spec operator.

Elite units are not limited to spec op units. Every unit I set foot in became elite.

JK

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
So far we have the following psychics who claim special knowledge using their psychic powers that I did not serve in the military:

2) A_Unique_Person

I want to clarify that AUP's psychic claim was that you were kicked out of the military.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Wayne Grabert

I want to clarify that AUP's psychic claim was that you were kicked out of the military.

Yet another psychic claim by AUP that will be debunked lol.

Yes, Mr. Randi and I, for the cause of skepticism, are going to have to address all these psychic claims by guys like aup.

In addition, aup came ot that conclusion because I did not serve for 30 years. Only military folks are frowned upon for changing careers in the eyes those with penis envy over military service like AUP.

Think about it, a civilian signs a contract for 4, 6, 8 even 10 years, and then decides to do something else and no one even thinks differently. But a soldier--gosh, for a soldier it just has to be the Hotel California. When you enter you simply cannot leave.

Don't worry Wayne, this is hilarious. Let it stew. When I win this I will make a sig line that the psychics in the list above will cry over for as long as this forum exists.

Just let it keep building. They're making it happen LOL.

JK

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Elite units are not limited to spec op units. Every unit I set foot in became elite.

Touché!

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Wayne Grabert

Touché!

Here is a sample signature line that I am going to use on this forum permanently after I debunk these psychics:

On , Jedi Knight was challenged by the psychics Hal Bidlack, Doubt, Brother Bluto, Starshark, and Crossbow that he did not serve in the US military and did not go to war. Jedi has defeated their psychic claims on [insert date here] by not only proving he served in the United States Army, but proved he was a heroic member of operation Just Cause and Operation Restore Hope. Jedi has once again made the world safe for skepticism in the highest regards for the James Randi Educational Foundation by winning this mini-JREF challenge weighed against him by individuals claiming to have [i]psychic powers.

What do you think Wayne? How does that sound? Can you think of any alterations that need to be made to that new sig line?

I can't really include AUP in it because he said he believes I served.

JK

[BrotherBluto]

Jedi Knight (from a previous thread)

I served in Panama for operation Just Cause, the 1st Persian Gulf War and Somalia. I am a completely indoctrinated right-wing arch-conservative hawk, just so you know. The only thing that matters to me is my country. I also possess a very clear and gifted intellect for political strategy, especially in the observation of enemy nation-states.[/b]
My emphasis above

Seems he forgot Operation Desert Storm in his proposed signature line. The longer a lie goes on, the more complex it becomes and thus the easier it is to bungle like this.

[rikzilla]

JK,

I don't know if you served or not. I think you're a nut...but then, in my time in the service I've met a few nuts so...being a nut is not inconsistent with mil service. It's frowned upon for sure....but sometimes nuts in uniform come in handy :D

Anyway...I'm pretty sure you did some of what you say. I'm willing to believe you until you prove to me you are unworthy of such belief.

In any case, I gave you an invite....M street NW DC...the Madhatter at M and 19th...I'll buy the beer, you bring your war stories....I'll tell the forum what I think.

Of course the forum by now think I'm a nut too....but at least they don't think I'm a military wannabe. My service was more mundane than yours...but then again...my service record is real. ;) Any way,...come on out. I'm ready to believe you. :rolleyes:

-zilla

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by BrotherBluto

My emphasis above

Seems he forgot Operation Desert Storm in his proposed signature line. The longer a lie goes on, the more complex it becomes and thus the easier it is to bungle like this.

Look 3-blocker, Panama was in 1989-1990, right? And Somalia was from Dec '92 through 1993, right?

Duh.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by rikzilla
JK,

I don't know if you served or not. I think you're a nut...but then, in my time in the service I've met a few nuts so...being a nut is not inconsistent with mil service. It's frowned upon for sure....but sometimes nuts in uniform come in handy :D

Anyway...I'm pretty sure you did some of what you say. I'm willing to believe you until you prove to me you are unworthy of such belief.

In any case, I gave you an invite....M street NW DC...the Madhatter at M and 19th...I'll buy the beer, you bring your war stories....I'll tell the forum what I think.

Of course the forum by now think I'm a nut too....but at least they don't think I'm a military wannabe. My service was more mundane than yours...but then again...my service record is real. ;) Any way,...come on out. I'm ready to believe you. :rolleyes:

-zilla

Hey Rik, PM me your telephone number in Washington where you are at right now. I have some time, I will call you.

JK

[BrotherBluto]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Look 3-blocker, Panama was in 1989-1990, right? And Somalia was from Dec '92 through 1993, right?

Duh.

JK

Oh for Ed's sake--you said before that you served in the "1st Gulf War". I even provided your exact words.

Reading is fundamental.

By the way, even though there is such a thing as a 3-block--the term "3-blocker" really isn't in the vernacular.

[Samus]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
So far we have the following psychics who claim special knowledge using their psychic powers that I did not serve in the military:
...
7) DWB hmmm, I wrote:

"I don't pay enough attention to Jedi's posts, so I'm not going to vote on whether he's a fraud or not. "

Tell me again how that is a psychic prediction? I tell you I don't pay enough attention to your posts to know whether you're lying or not, you say that I accused you of lying. Interesting logic you got there, bubba.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by BrotherBluto


Oh for Ed's sake--you said before that you served in the "1st Gulf War". I even provided your exact words.

Reading is fundamental.

By the way, even though there is such a thing as a 3-block--the term "3-blocker" really isn't in the vernacular.

Well Bluto, if you paid attention to my post and looked at the dates, where does the 1st gulf war fall between those dates? Duh.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dwb
hmmm, I wrote:

"I don't pay enough attention to Jedi's posts, so I'm not going to vote on whether he's a fraud or not. "

Tell me again how that is a psychic prediction? I tell you I don't pay enough attention to your posts to know whether you're lying or not, you say that I accused you of lying. Interesting logic you got there, bubba.

You are right DWB, I went back and verified what you had said. I will remove you from my psychic prediction list lol. But you know, it isn't nice to pile on when you don't have facts.

JK

[Samus]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
You are right DWB, I went back and verified what you had said. I will remove you from my psychic prediction list lol. But you know, it isn't nice to pile on when you don't have facts. No, but it sure is fun :) My intent was more to backup Doubt's "how to spot a fraud", I didn't mean for it to come across as a pile on.

So now that you've peaked my curiousity, what did you do in the military? What branch did you serve in? Officer or enlisted?

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
What do you think Wayne? How does that sound? Can you think of any alterations that need to be made to that new sig line?

It looks fine to me; just don't leave anything out. I'm happy that you will be meeting with Rik so that he can act as an intermediary to verify your service record. Any documentation you can bring along to verify your record would be good to bring with you.

To Rik: On behalf of the JREF board, thank you for making the offer to resolve this question. Just don't get too drunk and start a barroom brawl, even if you have someone as formidible as JK on your side! :D

[Doubt]

Jedi Knight lies again:

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=149328#post149328



To be a member of the elite units I was in when I served you had to be a seasoned soldier for years to do the job.



And today in this very thread:

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=13990



What they have done is take my statement that I served in elite units to be misconstrued with being a green beret or some other spec operator.

Elite units are not limited to spec op units. Every unit I set foot in became elite.



So according to JK, every unit he was in was elite, but you have to be a seasoned solider first before you can join them. So where did you get your start JK? Were you a member of the Santa Claus body guard detatchment? Were you carrying an MP-5 under a red coat while wearing pointy toed shoes and pointy ears?

Jedi,

Name a unit in the army that requires you to be a seasoned infantry soldier before you can join it and is not part of the special operations command? Pick one. Any one.

Here is a link to information on units that you cannot pick. They are the components of the Army Special Operations command:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/arsoc.htm

[Wayne Grabert]

Just wanted to toss in my opinion that Doubt has a cool signature line. :cool:

[BrotherBluto]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Well Bluto, if you paid attention to my post and looked at the dates, where does the 1st gulf war fall between those dates? Duh.

JK

Desert Storm was right in the middle of those dates, thus proving my point. You have claimed in the past to have participated in that conflict, yet in your draft signature line above you failed to list it between Panama and Somalia. Why did you do that?

But who am I kidding, you're not going to answer the question. Wait a minute, you said I'm a psychic! (puts on turban and looks into his feminazi crystal ball) The oracle tells me that you're going to post with a groundless and unrelated insult, then bolt like a deranged lemming off the cliff that is your next tangent.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Doubt
Jedi Knight lies again:

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=149328#post149328



And today in this very thread:

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=13990



So according to JK, every unit he was in was elite, but you have to be a seasoned solider first before you can join them. So where did you get your start JK? Were you a member of the Santa Claus body guard detatchment? Were you carrying an MP-5 under a red coat while wearing pointy toed shoes and pointy ears?

Jedi,

Name a unit in the army that requires you to be a seasoned infantry soldier before you can join it and is not part of the special operations command? Pick one. Any one.

Here is a link to information on units that you cannot pick. They are the components of the Army Special Operations command:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/arsoc.htm

You must be hard of hearing. I already told you that I was not a member of spec ops units. I was in elite units. There are many elite units in the US Army. Elite units are not limited to spec ops. Spec ops are superior units to the units I served in, but the soldiers I served with believed that they were elite. Everyone that commanded us said we were. Maybe we weren't elite and were just "highly proficent and kick-ass" or "awesome", or as a US Army Ranger told us after watching our unit in action in Panama: "You guys are some mushroom cloud making mother f#ckers".

Apparently President Bush senior agreed and that is why my unit was the only unit to get the VUA for heroism in Just Cause.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by BrotherBluto


Desert Storm was right in the middle of those dates, thus proving my point. You have claimed in the past to have participated in that conflict, yet in your draft signature line above you failed to list it between Panama and Somalia. Why did you do that?

But who am I kidding, you're not going to answer the question. Wait a minute, you said I'm a psychic! (puts on turban and looks into his feminazi crystal ball) The oracle tells me that you're going to post with a groundless and unrelated insult, then bolt like a deranged lemming off the cliff that is your next tangent.

Well cherry, it is like I said, I know who I am and your psychic claim is wrong about me.

JK

[Starshark]

Originally posted by Aardvark_DK
With all due respect, Starshark, I think this poll is rather silly. I've no idea if JK served, I don't really care, and I don't see what difference it makes. I think he's completely bonkers either way.

The primary objective was to leave Aswang's thread to the issue of whether people on this board would fight for their country or not. It was well and truly hijacked by the JK/Military issue.

PRIMARY OBJECTIVE: COMPLETED!

The secondary objective is to see if JK will give in and admit that the closest he's been to uniform is the time that guy came to his school to talk about joining up. You remember? JK tried to sign that very same day and the recruitment officer apolgised and said that somehow all the forms got burnt in the trunk of his car.

SECONDARY OBJECTIVE: UNDERWAY...


Y'know, I should be getting ready for work. TFIF.

[Doubt]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


You must be hard of hearing. I already told you that I was not a member of spec ops units. I was in elite units. There are many elite units in the US Army. Elite units are not limited to spec ops.
Apparently President Bush senior agreed and that is why my unit was the only unit to get the VUA for heroism in Just Cause.

JK

JK,

You did not answer my question. The first quote of yours that I put in there still shows you to be a liar.

Name a unit in the army that requires you to be a seasoned infantry soldier before you can join it and is not part of the special operations command?

Read that first quote of yours in my last post. You are tap dancing around the question. Provide a list of units that you were in if you want to find a way out of this. I want to hear the full unit ID down to what platoon you were in.

Or do you want me to dig up a quote about where you write about the number of countries you claimed to have served in?

[Starshark]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Look 3-blocker, Panama was in 1989-1990, right? And Somalia was from Dec '92 through 1993, right?

Duh.

JK

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Classic JK. Caught fibbing, so change the subject. I love it.

[BrotherBluto]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

Apparently President Bush senior agreed and that is why my unit was the only unit to get the VUA for heroism in Just Cause.

JK

What is a VUA? According to this it doesn't exist (http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/images/medals/us_unit_ribbons.htm)

Did you mean to say VUC? Because the 6th Infantry got one (http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/lineage/branches/inf/0006in.htm) for panama.

You are really bad at this my friend

[Starshark]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


You must be hard of hearing. I already told you that I was not a member of spec ops units. I was in elite units. There are many elite units in the US Army. Elite units are not limited to spec ops. Spec ops are superior units to the units I served in, but the soldiers I served with believed that they were elite. Everyone that commanded us said we were. Maybe we weren't elite and were just "highly proficent and kick-ass" or "awesome", or as a US Army Ranger told us after watching our unit in action in Panama: "You guys are some mushroom cloud making mother f#ckers".

Apparently President Bush senior agreed and that is why my unit was the only unit to get the VUA for heroism in Just Cause.

JK

So, what's the reason that you won't tell us the name of your unit? I need a good laugh.

[BrotherBluto]

1. Originally posted by BrotherBluto
The oracle tells me that you're going to post with a groundless and unrelated insult, then bolt like a deranged lemming off the cliff that is your next tangent.

2. Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Well cherry, it is like I said, I know who I am and your psychic claim is wrong about me.


To quote the great Bill Murray in Ghostbusters, "And the flowers are still standing!"

[BrotherBluto]

Vorticity pointed out that I'm in error:

In fact there is a Valorous Unit Award (http://www.usarotc.com/medals/vua.htm). Looks like the same award is also referred to as a Citation (http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/images/medals/us_unit_ribbons.htm).

Were you in the 6th Infantry, JK?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by BrotherBluto


What is a VUA? According to this it doesn't exist (http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/images/medals/us_unit_ribbons.htm)

Did you mean to say VUC? Because the 6th Infantry got one (http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/lineage/branches/inf/0006in.htm) for panama.

You are really bad at this my friend

Hey Bluto, you are on it. The first link is the 3rd award down from the top. The second link you post scroll down to where is says "Decorations". What does it say for Panama.

Valorous Unit Award for Panama is what it says (VUA). As an officer, you should have known about that. Anyway, that was one of my units, The "Regulars", 4th Bn 6th Infantry. I went to war with them in Panama during Operation Just Cause. We fought at La Commandancia as part of Task Force Bayonet. The Sheridans you spoke of earlier provided us fire-support on the Commandancia from Ancon Hill and we were involved in the heaviest fighting of the war. The Sheridan crew from the 82nd arrived in Howard Air Force base and stayed with us at Camp Gator. Just prior to H-Hour, we rallied across the swing bridge to Fort Clayton and were locked inside the Fort Clayton gymnasium with the doors chained until H-Hour on Dec 19th. From Fort Clayton we acted on our combat orders and deployed past the Panama Canal Commission building, across the Ancon Hill and then directly attacked all enemy forces leading up to and into the Commandancia.

Since you linked the unit history correctly, I cannot deny that that was one of my units. I say that because I am 100% credible and now you brats know Jedi is for real.

Perhaps I should have discussed it, perhaps not. I really have nothing to hide but generally do not discuss details, not that I have given any. Most of the time people take my word for it, but then again, I recognize that this is a skeptic forum. Reflecting back on the previous discussions has made me realise that I do not know of anyone that has served in as many places that I have, so it is credible to be skeptical about it.

I also served with the 10th Mountain Division in Somalia for Operation Restore Hope in Africa.

This is about as much as a half-way point you will get from me on this issue. You guys knows I am a staunch anti-communist, arch-conservative and I hate feminazis. Where do you think such an indoctrination could possibly come from? ;)

Jedi "The Mushroom Cloud Making Mother F#cker" Knight

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by BrotherBluto

Desert Storm was right in the middle of those dates, thus proving my point. You have claimed in the past to have participated in that conflict, yet in your draft signature line above you failed to list it between Panama and Somalia. Why did you do that?

Now, wait a minute, Brother Bluto. Jedi said he was a heroic member of operation Just Cause and Operation Restore Hope. Perhaps his participation in Operation Desert Storm was too modest to qualify as "heroic," and thus he didn't include it in his proposed signature line.

[BrotherBluto]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Hey Bluto, you are on it. The first link is the 3rd award down from the top. The second link you post scroll down to where is says "Decorations". What does it say for Panama.

Valorous Unit Award for Panama is what it says (VUA).

You'll note above your post that I already admitted I was in error on this point.

I still don't believe you.

[BrotherBluto]

Originally posted by Wayne Grabert

Now, wait a minute, Brother Bluto. Jedi said he was a heroic member of operation Just Cause and Operation Restore Hope. Perhaps his participation in Operation Desert Storm was too modest to qualify as "heroic," and thus he didn't include it in his proposed signature line.

Good point. As a former officer I should have picked up on that. :)

[Jedi Knight]

When I was in Panama, my ETS date was in the first week of Jan 1990. I reenlisted for the 10th Mountain Division in the first week of December, 1989 so I could stay in Panama with the 5th ID so no one else would lead my men to war.

Then after we got back to Fort Polk, I went to Fort Drum and from there was positioned to go to deploy to every other emergency the US was involved in until I was honorably discharged in 1995.

There you go--that is my military history in a nutshell and I am proud of it.

JK

Is this the Operation just cause, that was started in February1988(planning) and began known originally as Plan blue spoon later becoming in sept 89 blue spoon then in oct plan 90-2.
Dec 15th war was declared, 17-18th it was executed?

[Samus]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
I reenlisted for the 10th Mountain Division in the first week of December, 1989...I went to Fort Drum and from there was positioned to go to deploy to every other emergency the US was involved in until I was honorably discharged in 1995. Ah, Fort Drum. What I like most (read: least) about it is that during the summer, it's hot as hell during the day but still manages to get into the 40s at night. That, and all the dust. I have fond memories of the "Fort Drum shine", rubbing the toes of my boots on the back of the opposite leg.

Of course, during the winter, it's just as miserable there as it is everywhere else in northern New York.

Good deal, Jedi Knight. 10th Mountain is a good division. Climb to Glory! :)

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Pie
Is this the Operation just cause, that was started in February1988(planning) and began known originally as Plan blue spoon later becoming in sept 89 blue spoon then in oct plan 90-2.
Dec 15th war was declared, 17-18th it was executed?

I wasn't part of the planning and was in Panama for some time prior to the war so there are only two designators that I know about. I was only part of the execution phase of the operation. The first was Operation NIMROD Dancer, a mission that started in March, 1989 and involved the deployment of scout forces. Those forces were replaced in August 1989 with combat soldiers (our soldiers). On Oct 3rd, 1989 there was an unsuccessful coup attempt against Noriega by his own security personnel and Battalion 2000 saved Noriega. We were in position to invade at that time but were not allowed to execute.

During this period, crimes against US civilian personnel increased, drawing the attention of President Bush. This pushed the US more to the brink of war with Noriega. Then in December, a US Marine Officer and some comrades were driving near the Bridge of Americas and were stopped by a police detachment of Noriega's soldiers. The Marine Officer, LT. Paz, was unarmed and shot in the back by an AKMS (Russian 7.62 mm rifle). Paz died a short time later.

After Paz was executed, our forces went on alert and then we invaded. The Invasion began on December 19th at roughly 10PM Panama time. Our mission was to eliminate all enemy opposition at and secure La Commandancia, and provide a blocking force to engage and destroy Battalion 2000 (Noriega's special forces) should those forces escape the trap that was set for them and try to retrograde back to the Commandancia. Battalion 2000 was liquidated by the heroic capitalists of 4th Bn 6th Infantry and never had the opportunity to be an effective force for Noriega during any part of the conflict. We also provided a secure corridor for non-combatants to flee the sector and that was very successful.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dwb
Ah, Fort Drum. What I like most (read: least) about it is that during the summer, it's hot as hell during the day but still manages to get into the 40s at night. That, and all the dust. I have fond memories of the "Fort Drum shine", rubbing the toes of my boots on the back of the opposite leg.

Of course, during the winter, it's just as miserable there as it is everywhere else in northern New York.

Good deal, Jedi Knight. 10th Mountain is a good division. Climb to Glory! :)

That is outstanding that you served there, DWB. Did you serve before the base improvements were completed or after? Or did you just go there for training?

JK

[Bjorn]

Jedi,

I'm curious here: Did you know (name deleted)?

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by Wayne Grabert
I believe JK has served and seen action.
I just wanted to reiterate my position and risk my reputation for judgement (that I'm still trying to establish on this board). I look forward to hearing from Rikzilla after he has the chance to meet JK.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Bjorn
Jedi,

I'm curious here

Absolutely. I know him very well, actually. Where did you get that information? Are you guys starting to dig in Fort Polk personnel lists from the 4th of the 6th?

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Wayne Grabert

I just wanted to reiterate my position and risk my reputation for judgement (that I'm still trying to establish on this board). I look forward to hearing from Rikzilla after he has the chance to meet JK.

Hey Wayne, turn your PM on so I can PM you.

JK

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by Wayne Grabert

It looks fine to me; just don't leave anything out. I'm happy that you will be meeting with Rik so that he can act as an intermediary to verify your service record. Any documentation you can bring along to verify your record would be good to bring with you.

To Rik: On behalf of the JREF board, thank you for making the offer to resolve this question. Just don't get too drunk and start a barroom brawl, even if you have someone as formidible as JK on your side! :D
LOL! I'll try to get pictures too!

anyway Wayne,...thanks for lightening up....sorry if I pissed you off with my drunk post....at least I don't do that very often.

Unless he brings documentation you guys will have to rely on my ability to be a skeptic. Whatever I say won't hold much water with some of you...but that's ok. I don't expect that whatever impression I get from JK to be the final word on the debate. Hey, skeptics are a tough crowd.... :D

Anyway, at the very least I can give ya'll my impressions and maybe even photos....should be interesting.

-zilla

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Absolutely. I know him very well, actually. Where did you get that information? Are you guys starting to dig in Fort Polk personnel lists from the 4th of the 6th?

JK No, just a coincidence, it's a small world. :p

He could confirm your story, you know. Do you keep in touch?

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


I wasn't part of the planning and was in Panama for some time prior to the war so there are only two designators that I know about. I was only part of the execution phase of the operation. The first was Operation NIMROD Dancer, a mission that started in March, 1989 and involved the deployment of scout forces. Those forces were replaced in August 1989 with combat soldiers (our soldiers). On Oct 3rd, 1989 there was an unsuccessful coup attempt against Noriega by his own security personnel and Battalion 2000 saved Noriega. We were in position to invade at that time but were not allowed to execute.

During this period, crimes against US civilian personnel increased, drawing the attention of President Bush. This pushed the US more to the brink of war with Noriega. Then in December, a US Marine Officer and some comrades were driving near the Bridge of Americas and were stopped by a police detachment of Noriega's soldiers. The Marine Officer, LT. Paz, was unarmed and shot in the back by an AKMS (Russian 7.62 mm rifle). Paz died a short time later.

After Paz was executed, our forces went on alert and then we invaded. The Invasion began on December 19th at roughly 10PM Panama time. Our mission was to eliminate all enemy opposition at and secure La Commandancia, and provide a blocking force to engage and destroy Battalion 2000 (Noriega's special forces) should those forces escape the trap that was set for them and try to retrograde back to the Commandancia. Battalion 2000 was liquidated by the heroic capitalists of 4th Bn 6th Infantry and never had the opportunity to be an effective force for Noriega during any part of the conflict. We also provided a secure corridor for non-combatants to flee the sector and that was very successful.

JK

thanks JK, I was just reading
this (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/just_cause.htm) about it.

Oh so your not a youngster then( ;) inserts slight dig at ahem) :D

Is there any chance I can ask you to clean my boots then?:D

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Hey Wayne, turn your PM on so I can PM you.

JK
I don't have personal messaging enabled on this computer because it sucks away to much demand on the processor when I'm doing video editing. (Today, however, I'm doing home repairs, taking breaks, moving stuff around, etc.)

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by rikzilla

anyway Wayne,...thanks for lightening up....sorry if I pissed you off with my drunk post....at least I don't do that very often.

It's all good again. Holding grudges is a waste of energy. ;)

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Bjorn
No, just a coincidence, it's a small world. :p

He could confirm your story, you know. Do you keep in touch?

Absolutely. Like I said, everything I posted is 100% correct.

JK

[Roadtoad]

Valid proof of JKs military service would be found with his DD214.

That would also prove whether or not he served "heroically."

As to the rest of it, as a former "Pogue," I spent the better part of the day picking up "Poguie Bait" for my Ranger son. Real heroes don't brag. Never have, never will.

[Samus]

Originally posted by Pie
Is there any chance I can ask you to clean my boots then?:D The Brits call it "bulling", and you can learn a little more about it here (http://www.cadetstuff.org/archives/000200.html). Clean your own boots, lazy bum! :)

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Wayne Grabert

It's all good again. Holding grudges is a waste of energy. ;)

I just got off the phone with Rikzilla. He is a really nice guy.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Roadtoad
Valid proof of JKs military service would be found with his DD214.

That would also prove whether or not he served "heroically."

As to the rest of it, as a former "Pogue," I spent the better part of the day picking up "Poguie Bait" for my Ranger son. Real heroes don't brag. Never have, never will.

I am a team player. Everything I said involved a "we", if you will notice. I find heroic capitalist struggles to be very important endeavors.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Pie
Is there any chance I can ask you to clean my boots then?:D

You bring the Kiwi and a 5th of Crown Royal and I will bring the spit-shine rag. ;)

JK

[rikzilla]

Indeed JK,

T'was a pleasure.

Listen folks....I am a skeptic....so I'm only going to say that if JK is a fake, he's a damn good one. I'll reserve judgement for now.

If he's a fake it'll be a big surprise to me. I know alot of ex-GI's.. Jedi knows the terminology...the language. He sounds alot like me and friends of mine.

...can't say much now...no time.

Thanks again JK....was a great pleasure to speak with you.

-Rick

[Buzzsaw]

Originally posted by Starshark
Basically, a few people believe there is no way JK has served in the US military. Or, if he has served in the US military, he's never seen action as he claims.


What evidence would you accept as proof? If Jedi were to release his real name and service number, it could be verified whether or not he served, and some might even recognize the name; the internet is a large place.

My question is, very few people post here using their real names, complete or partial. Profiles are often sketchy. Would you reveal your true name and something as personal as your service record on the internet? How about giving out your address and phone number so we can verify your address; it may be handy if we have to verify statements you make about your home city/state/region/country.

Yes, I know Jedi has made some claims, but you are asking quite a bit from him, and he has comparatively little to gain.

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by Buzzsaw

My question is, very few people post here using their real names, complete or partial. Profiles are often sketchy. Would you reveal your true name and something as personal as your service record on the internet?
Good points, Buzzsaw. Welcome to the board! :cool:

[VernorsRush]

Originally posted by Buzzsaw


What evidence would you accept as proof? If Jedi were to release his real name and service number, it could be verified whether or not he served, and some might even recognize the name; the internet is a large place.
The US Military uses Social Security Numbers for identification. Probably not much chance that JK will release that. :)

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by Buzzsaw
Would you reveal your true name and something as personal as your service record on the internet? How about giving out your address and phone number so we can verify your address; it may be handy if we have to verify statements you make about your home city/state/region/country.

Yes, I know Jedi has made some claims, but you are asking quite a bit from him, and he has comparatively little to gain. Personally, I would never give out such info on the internet. The day Hal comes to get me it shouldn't be too easy for him to find me. :p

However, there are many ways of at least making a story a little bit more credible - 'I served in this and this unit from this date to this date, I was trained here and here, I was promoted to this and this and moved here and here ... '

Aren't vague stories about being a hero somehow less credible? :confused:

He has quite a lot to gain - stopping people from calling him a liar would be a significant step forward ... :p

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


You bring the Kiwi and a 5th of Crown Royal and I will bring the spit-shine rag. ;)

JK

No way your gonna make me do it and stand there barking orders at me arent you:(

Sir;)

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Pie


No way your gonna make me do it and stand there barking orders at me arent you:(

Sir;)

lol, no, I haven't barked any orders in so long, I forgot how. How about I just shine your boots and you bark the orders? :D

JK

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


lol, no, I haven't barked any orders in so long, I forgot how. How about I just shine your boots and you bark the orders? :D

JK

LMAO your on just packing all my boots, and sharpening my tongue just for you, I 'll be on my way make sure your ready on parade for inspection :D


General Pie:p

[Doubt]

Well,

Now JK is telling us something that is a considerably more plausible. Credibility is still an issue here. The following need to be explained:

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/show...9328#post149328



To be a member of the elite units I was in when I served you had to be a seasoned soldier for years to do the job.



Neither the 6th Infantry or 10th Mountain divisions are elite units. The 10th Mountain was an elite unit when it was formed in WWII. The current incarnation does not require any specialized training to get the mountain tab that now comes with the division patch. Soldiers are assigned to Infantry units like these fresh out of AIT. No seasoning required.

And then there is this from November 5th:

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=9636&perpage=40&pagenumber=2



Bjorn, I think the way I do because I have seen the world up close and personal. Have you traveled to over two dozen foreign countries, most of them hostile states? Have you?



Base on your most recent posts, you were in for at least 6 years. ('89 to '95.) That would have put you in a new country about every 4 months. Not very likely to be true for an 11B. Not even the 82nd airborne gets around that much. If we assume that your enlistment started around '85 or so that would still be 2.5 deployments a year. That does not pass the smell test.

But then we still have your approach to the truth:

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/show...ight=tell+truth



A lie is only a lie if the person receiving the information has a need to know.



Your stories are an object lesson in why the truth matters. You very well could be telling the truth now about what units you served in. But we cannot tell because of the large quantity of BS that you have spewed. You are still a proven BS artist and cannot be trusted to tell the truth.

[rikzilla]

Listen folks,

After speaking to Jedi I am certain he is for real. Of course I can't be sure, but like I said, if he's a faker he's a damned good one.

#1. If he was a fake he wouldn't have called me back...the only thing he knows about me is that I'm ex-Army...and was at TAM so alot of folks here at least know that I'm real :D IMHO, if he was a fake he wouldn't have taken the chance that I'd denounce him.

#2. He's been described as a bombastic kid who's watched too many war movies. Well, he is bombastic! :D Hard to get a word in edgewise! :D (Sorry man,...I've got a problem being too verbose myself,..but you got me beat there! Don't take that the wrong way though...I like you and think our talk was literally fascinating! I'm seriously looking forward to meeting you and buying you a brew.) Definately not a kid!

#3. He's willing to come to DC, meet some gov't types I'm good friends with, and tell all...Also he's told me some other things in confidence that bolster his case. (I know...argument from authority.....but when someone takes me into their confidence I honor their wishes to the letter.)

#4. There's just no payoff to someone in scamming the JREF forum. It's highly unlikely anyone would go to such great lengths to perpetuate such an elaborate hoax on our little forum.

Whatever miscues he's made in the past are beside the point. I think he's put out a few misleading things merely to cover his tracks because he wanted to remain anonymous. My feeling at this time is that he's real. It's possible he's fake of course (after watching how Randi and "Carlos" bamboozled the Australian continent one can never be sure!!!) :confused: Naw...he's real.

-zilla

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by rikzilla
Listen folks,

After speaking to Jedi I am certain he is for real. Of course I can't be sure, but like I said, if he's a faker he's a damned good one.

#1. If he was a fake he wouldn't have called me back...the only thing he knows about me is that I'm ex-Army...and was at TAM so alot of folks here at least know that I'm real :D IMHO, if he was a fake he wouldn't have taken the chance that I'd denounce him.

#2. He's been described as a bombastic kid who's watched too many war movies. Well, he is bombastic! :D Hard to get a word in edgewise! :D (Sorry man,...I've got a problem being too verbose myself,..but you got me beat there! Don't take that the wrong way though...I like you and think our talk was literally fascinating! I'm seriously looking forward to meeting you and buying you a brew.) Definately not a kid!

#3. He's willing to come to DC, meet some gov't types I'm good friends with, and tell all...Also he's told me some other things in confidence that bolster his case. (I know...argument from authority.....but when someone takes me into their confidence I honor their wishes to the letter.)

#4. There's just no payoff to someone in scamming the JREF forum. It's highly unlikely anyone would go to such great lengths to perpetuate such an elaborate hoax on our little forum.

Whatever miscues he's made in the past are beside the point. I think he's put out a few misleading things merely to cover his tracks because he wanted to remain anonymous. My feeling at this time is that he's real. It's possible he's fake of course (after watching how Randi and "Carlos" bamboozled the Australian continent one can never be sure!!!) :confused: Naw...he's real.

-zilla

Whatever the truth is, he's still an *******

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Whatever the truth is, he's still an *******

That cuts right to the heart of the matter.

His detractors don't like him....so they've pursued the "he's a vile faker" angle. Honestly, I was with that line of thought for quite some time. I was wrong, and so were they....of course some of the "they" just friggin' well hate JK....and so they'll say "so what if he's real...he's still an *********."

...at least we're getting down to core feelings here! ;) Authentic stuff!

I don't agree with JK's "kill 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out" philosophy....some here think me a warmonger...but JK makes me look like a wus. We are in agreement on Irag and the WOT. Also, my time in the military has given me a keen sense of respect for anyone with a CIB. Having met the enemy on a field of combat is not an easy thing. All the rights we enjoy here were once won on a battlefield somewhere in our history....by guys just like JK. Think what you will of him...without ********** such as him this world would be a much more oppressive place.

-zilla

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by rikzilla

.All the rights we enjoy here were once won on a battlefield somewhere in our history....by guys just like JK. Think what you will of him...without ********** such as him this world would be a much more oppressive place.

-zilla

I can't think of a bigger insult to people who fought for and gave their lives for freedom.

Our freedoms are threatened by people like JK. We owe people like him jacks**t.

[armageddonman]

Even if he wasn't an a**hole he's still been proven more than once that he is a liar.

Why should anyone trust him?

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


I can't think of a bigger insult to people who fought for and gave their lives for freedom.

Our freedoms are threatened by people like JK. We owe people like him jacks**t.

Your hatred of JK is palpable. But you are wrong. You may want to feel that you don't owe men like JK anything....but even you, deep down know it's guys like him that guarantee our civilization.

Your attitude is not new....it's the old "All dogs and soldiers stay off the lawn" attitude that reigns during times of peace when soldiers are looked down upon. But during times of war these same people look to soldiers for their protection. It's a double standard Shaun. You can't have it both ways, except perhaps in your own mind. People like you are quite free not to fight...but your disrespect and loathing of those who do is irrational. Even a dog knows better than to bite the hand of a friend.

-zilla

[hal bidlack]

well, if the evidence now shows that JK served in the military, and honorably, let me be the first to offer an unqualified, total, and complete apology for doubting him. I mean that.

But along with this, I will add that his style of posting, he unusual perspective on facts and history, and his bluster and confrontational manner are, I believe, more responsible for his being on many ignore lists than his claim to military service.

There are many vets on this forum, and their calm references to military service have caused me to readily believe they served. JK could, I think, take a lesson from them.

But I can honestly say that I have never had any real anger or feelings of contempt toward JK, though I doubted his story.

So, again, I apologize for doubting your service, but know that I shall continue to disagree with you on most issues, and assume you will do the same for me:)

[Crossbow]

To: Jedi Knight and everyone else

Thank you for sharing many of the details of your service and I would say that you have validated your claim that you actually were in the military and that you actually did see some combat.

Therefore, I retract my earlier statements where I doubted these two claims and I do apologize for doubting your word in this one matter.

However, I would like to also point out that you have often been in error regarding many, many, many other issues such as mathematics, physics, current events, and history. Also your hatred of women and other people that you do not understand is quite evident, and that if you were not such an total idiot then I (and I expect many others) would not treat you as a stupid, thoughtless, boastful, liar.

Thanks to all for your attention.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by hal bidlack
well, if the evidence now shows that JK served in the military, and honorably, let me be the first to offer an unqualified, total, and complete apology for doubting him. I mean that.

But along with this, I will add that his style of posting, he unusual perspective on facts and history, and his bluster and confrontational manner are, I believe, more responsible for his being on many ignore lists than his claim to military service.

There are many vets on this forum, and their calm references to military service have caused me to readily believe they served. JK could, I think, take a lesson from them.

But I can honestly say that I have never had any real anger or feelings of contempt toward JK, though I doubted his story.

So, again, I apologize for doubting your service, but know that I shall continue to disagree with you on most issues, and assume you will do the same for me:)

Actually Hal, I sort of like you. I like your style. Were you wrong for doubting me? Yes. I say that because you have to understand that I am a product of the institutions that I was mentored in. I am a hawk. I admit it. But you know what? I am a hawk because I have seen the world up close, where most people get the leftist perspective on CNN that paints the US as the bad guy all the time.

All I did on this thread was say I served and served in war. Then the crew came in and piled on like they were psychics. Then there was a challenge developing about it and you said it would be a conflict of interest to be involved in that, but in the same post you said you didn't believe me anyway and that just inflamed the situation even more.

I have done nothing wrong. Nothing. Is serving my country wrong? No. While serving is getting sent to war wrong? No.

If a person graduates from college, do they get tickled about it? You bet. Do they tell their pals about it? Sure do. Why is it that veterans are held to a different standard? If I want to say I went to war, then by God I am going to say it, and no one is going to stop me from saying it because I did it. Using this forum's standard of talking about experience, it would be like someone saying:"How dare you talk about your college education!"

The hell with that! Hal, you above all people should know that the military is an education. Is your military service accomplishments limited to voices in the smokey bar in some back-woods VFW? I don't hang out in bars.

That is my last rant on the matter. You have to look at it from my perspective. I don't see anything unusual about it because I did it, whereas someone who graduated from college wouldn't see anything unusual about doing that after it was over. What was unusual was how people piled on me in the forum for simply being a vet. That, to me, is based on a few factors:

1) I believe in the idea of America and served in the Army
2) I went to war for America (which many young people today at American universities simply detest the thought of because their leftist college professors tell them that to serve is evil).
3) I am an arch conservative
4) I am a staunch anti-communist

It has nothing to do with me as a person--I am a great person. It has to do with my beliefs, and I stand by my beliefs.

Other than that, I like JREF because I am a skeptic. I also went to college so I am one of the smartest grunts you will ever meet lol. But you know what, it is sad a guy can't even mention he served in the military because of the climate of leftism in this country.

There is only one thing in my life that matters to me, to be sure. One thing. The United States. Nothing else matters.

Looking forward to meeting all of you guys ;) and look, if I offended anyone I want to apologize as well.

JK

[hal bidlack]

you should definately try to make next year's Amazing Meeting. Seriously.

and again, we will continue to disagree on, well, most stuff. But none of it is ever personal. ;)

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Crossbow
To: Jedi Knight and everyone else

Thank you for sharing many of the details of your service and I would say that you have validated your claim that you actually were in the military and that you actually did see some combat.

Therefore, I retract my earlier statements where I doubted these two claims and I do apologize for doubting your word in this one matter.

However, I would like to also point out that you have often been in error regarding many, many, many other issues such as mathematics, physics, current events, and history. Also your hatred of women and other people that you do not understand is quite evident, and that if you were not such an total idiot then I (and I expect many others) would not treat you as a stupid, thoughtless, boastful, liar.

Thanks to all for your attention.

I accept some fault for it...if I knew that the situation was going to become as inflamed as it was I would have just had Wells Fargo hand carry my life history to you guys lol.

Seriously, I didn't think it was a big deal to do what I did, but reflecting on it, it is rare that people serve in so many places so I know that it was cool to question it.

So yes, it would have been better for me to just come out with it. (but I wanted to win a mini JREF challenge lol).

Anyway Crossbow, don't take anything I say personally. There is only like, 10 conservatives like me left in America so it isn't like you guys hear the things I say very often anyway. ;)

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by hal bidlack
you should definately try to make next year's Amazing Meeting. Seriously.

and again, we will continue to disagree on, well, most stuff. But none of it is ever personal. ;)

Yes, I will come to next year's Amazing meeting. Also, I never take anything personal Hal, you guys are good in my eyes. If I didn't like you guys I wouldn't be here chatting with you at the forum. ;)

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


I can't think of a bigger insult to people who fought for and gave their lives for freedom.

Our freedoms are threatened by people like JK. We owe people like him jacks**t.

Let me tell you something. People like me (my father and my uncle) saved people like you (your family) in World War II. Almost every day when my uncle was in England he flew a raggedy piece of aluminum (B-24) out of one of your airfields overloaded with bombs so he could save your country.

You can hate me all you want--my uncle risked his life for you (guys just like me).

JK

[Crossbow]

Thanks for the feedback JK and I am glad you are seeing the light on this one issue.

[a_unique_person]

I always thought he was in the army. What I want to know is exactly what happened, because I think that is the interesting part of the story. And why he left.

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by rikzilla

Your hatred of JK is palpable. But you are wrong. You may want to feel that you don't owe men like JK anything....but even you, deep down know it's guys like him that guarantee our civilization.

Guys who have acted like he has, not all who think as he does. Let's make that honest distinction for the sake of appreciating a diversity of thought, even if a united purpose, among men and women in uniform.

Jedi Knight deserves our respect and gratitude whether or not we agree with his opinions. I salute him!

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Let me tell you something. People like me (my father and my uncle) saved people like you (your family) in World War II. Almost every day when my uncle was in England he flew a raggedy piece of aluminum (B-24) out of one of your airfields overloaded with bombs so he could save your country.

You can hate me all you want--my uncle risked his life for you (guys just like me).

JK

Listen you piece of vermin. People like you didn't save my family during WWII. My family fought against people like you during WWII. You think you were the only country to fight in WWII?

Incidentally, Britain has its own Armed Forces. Hundreds of them have been killed by the IRA. Thousands of civilians too, doing evil things like going shopping, or turning up at a war memorial. You remember the IRA don't you JK? You know, that bunch of terrorists you seem to think should cast the British out of Northern Ireland.

And I should respect you?

HO HO HO!!!!

"Guys like you" risked their life for me? Yeah, I often pass the War Memorial in my town (200+ names on it) and think "Yeah, thank God they were a bunch of racist, narrow minded, arrogant, thick as ******* doofuses. We might have lost".

Dumbass:rolleyes:

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by rikzilla


Your hatred of JK is palpable. But you are wrong. You may want to feel that you don't owe men like JK anything....but even you, deep down know it's guys like him that guarantee our civilization.

Your attitude is not new....it's the old "All dogs and soldiers stay off the lawn" attitude that reigns during times of peace when soldiers are looked down upon. But during times of war these same people look to soldiers for their protection. It's a double standard Shaun. You can't have it both ways, except perhaps in your own mind. People like you are quite free not to fight...but your disrespect and loathing of those who do is irrational. Even a dog knows better than to bite the hand of a friend.

-zilla

Nice of you to attribute something to me that I have never said. I guess you have more in common with JK than I thought. Still, lying does come easy to some on this board.

I don't have a "disrespect and loathing" of those who fight", I have a disrespect and loathing of vermin like JK. Of people who can mock the people of Lockerbie. Of people who can refer to a poster on the board as a "paki".

Timothy McVeigh was in the US Army too. Does he deserve my respect as well?

I dont look down on soldiers. Far from it. Not least of which is my Great Grandfather. This is where he is now (http://www.cwgc.org.uk/detailed.asp?casualty=853322)

I owe him everything. I owe JK NOTHING!!!!!!!!!! It is people like JK who are the threat to civilization. Everything is so easy. Everything is so simple.

I look down on scumbags like JK. And a scumbag he most definitely is. "Nemo me impune lacessit " as the Royal Scots say..........

If a British squaddie came on here mocking the WTC attack, would you still have respect for him?

Sure you would.............


Bite the hand of a friend? Sorry, I choose my friends carefully, and simple minded mockers of the dead aren't among them.

You think differently. And that most assuredly, is your problem.............

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Nice of you to attribute something to me that I have never said. I guess you have more in common with JK than I thought. Still, lying does come easy to some on this board.

I don't have a "disrespect and loathing" of those who fight", I have a disrespect and loathing of vermin like JK. Of people who can mock the people of Lockerbie. Of people who can refer to a poster on the board as a "paki".

Zilla: Calling me a liar because I inferred your hatred of JK from your post is a little strong don't you think? I don't know your history with JK. I was not party to the threads where he "mocked the people of Lockerbie". Cut me some slack...I don't live on this board. I've been posting here for 2 and a half years and only just broke 1,000 posts last month.

Timothy McVeigh was in the US Army too. Does he deserve my respect as well?

Zilla: His actions as a terrorist are apart from his actions as a soldier. All soldiers deserve our respect, just like all firemen, police, and EMS people deserve our respect. Are they all wonderful, caring, saintly people?? No. Of course not, some of them are **********...but they still deserve respect for the jobs they have, and will perform in support of society. (this means you and me) Your argument is based on the poison well fallacy. Just because Tim McVeigh became a terrorist IS NOT an indictment of his military service, he was a nut....sometimes people are just nuts... Just because JK pisses you off does not mean he's Hitler.

I dont look down on soldiers. Far from it. Not least of which is my Great Grandfather. This is where he is now (http://www.cwgc.org.uk/detailed.asp?casualty=853322)

I owe him everything. I owe JK NOTHING!!!!!!!!!! It is people like JK who are the threat to civilization. Everything is so easy. Everything is so simple.

I look down on scumbags like JK. And a scumbag he most definitely is. "Nemo me impune lacessit " as the Royal Scots say..........

If a British squaddie came on here mocking the WTC attack, would you still have respect for him?

Sure you would.............

Zilla: Your great grandfather was a great guy because he died in battle?? And JK is evil?? Why? Obviously you could not have known your GG...how do you know his politics and attitudes?? How do you know he was any different from JK? You do realize that if you were able to get JE to channel your GG you'd likely find him a man of his times......a good British Imperialist. Maybe even virulently anti-semitic as many were back then. He'd have likely refered to Pakistanis as "Paki's" maybe even as "wogs". I can't see any good logical reason why your GG would be superior in attitude to JK. Obviously your GG has earned your love and respect...as well he should. He was a soldier. I don't care how big of an a$$ your GG may have been,...or how much of a saint he may have been. All I know is he was a soldier who did his duty, and as such he deserves our respect. Just like JK....hell, even just like Tim McVeigh!


Bite the hand of a friend? Sorry, I choose my friends carefully, and simple minded mockers of the dead aren't among them.

You think differently. And that most assuredly, is your problem.............

Zilla: You are the one unable to discuss this dispassionately. That is your problem, and IMHO the reason you keep getting it wrong. I live a very happy life and can think of not a single person that I know and converse with that I hate. Hatred doesn't do anything to the person who is hated...besides amuse them I guess...hate hurts the hater. You are that guy...and I hope you get over it.

[Shaun from Scotland]

Zilla: Calling me a liar because I inferred your hatred of JK from your post is a little strong don't you think? I don't know your history with JK. I was not party to the threads where he "mocked the people of Lockerbie". Cut me some slack...I don't live on this board. I've been posting here for 2 and a half years and only just broke 1,000 posts last month.

If you continue to misrepresent my position and attribute attitudes to me which clearly are not the case, what do you expect? And it is not my hatred of JK you inferred. It was that I had no respect for the military because I hated JK. Have I called Hal Bidlack vermin? Huntsman? Any other military man? No BECAUSE THEY DONT BEHAVE LIKE VERMIN!!!!!!!!!!!

Zilla: His actions as a terrorist are apart from his actions as a soldier. All soldiers deserve our respect, just like all firemen, police, and EMS people deserve our respect. Are they all wonderful, caring, saintly people?? No. Of course not, some of them are **********...but they still deserve respect for the jobs they have, and will perform in support of society. (this means you and me) Your argument is based on the poison well fallacy. Just because Tim McVeigh became a terrorist IS NOT an indictment of his military service, he was a nut....sometimes people are just nuts... Just because JK pisses you off does not mean he's Hitler.

Again, you are the one who said and I quote: "People like you are quite free not to fight...but your disrespect and loathing of those who do is irrational"
I have never at any time disparaged the military profession. This is a totally untrue assertion on your behalf. As I have repeatedly stated, my problem is not with JK as a soldier, whatever the truth of that is. My problem is with him as a bigot, a racist, a xenophobe, a misogynist and a mocker of the dead. WTF is so difficult for you to get about this?


Zilla: Your great grandfather was a great guy because he died in battle?? And JK is evil?? Why? Obviously you could not have known your GG...how do you know his politics and attitudes?? How do you know he was any different from JK? You do realize that if you were able to get JE to channel your GG you'd likely find him a man of his times......a good British Imperialist. Maybe even virulently anti-semitic as many were back then. He'd have likely refered to Pakistanis as "Paki's" maybe even as "wogs". I can't see any good logical reason why your GG would be superior in attitude to JK. Obviously your GG has earned your love and respect...as well he should. He was a soldier. I don't care how big of an a$$ your GG may have been,...or how much of a saint he may have been. All I know is he was a soldier who did his duty, and as such he deserves our respect. Just like JK....hell, even just like Tim McVeigh!

No, bigots, xenophobes and the mockers of the dead don't deserve my respect. Be they soldier, fireman, doctor or garbage man. But then, I was never attacking JK for being a soldier was I, a point you still don't seem to get. As for my GG, he taught his family to respect others. He was a devout Roman Catholic. Being a soldier does not mean you can be an *******. Incidentally, as you know nothing about him this is specualation. All I need to do is read and I can see JK in all his glory..........

Zilla: You are the one unable to discuss this dispassionately. That is your problem, and IMHO the reason you keep getting it wrong. I live a very happy life and can think of not a single person that I know and converse with that I hate. Hatred doesn't do anything to the person who is hated...besides amuse them I guess...hate hurts the hater. You are that guy...and I hope you get over it.

That would make me a great soldier no?
And for a man who can't understand that I am not attacking the military, the irony of saying I keep getting it wrong is simply staggering......

[rikzilla]

I don't buy it Shaun,

The tone of your posts speaks volumes. If you learn to post without emoting so much perhaps your point will come through. As it is I stand by my initial assesment of you and your irrational hatred of JK. A man you've never even met.

Perhaps I'll change my mind?? Maybe....but honestly conversing with you is not high on my list of priorities. :rolleyes:

Here's some unsolicited advice; Lighten up.

-zilla

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by rikzilla
I don't buy it Shaun,

The tone of your posts speaks volumes. If you learn to post without emoting so much perhaps your point will come through. As it is I stand by my initial assesment of you and your irrational hatred of JK. A man you've never even met.

Perhaps I'll change my mind?? Maybe....but honestly conversing with you is not high on my list of priorities. :rolleyes:

Here's some unsolicited advice; Lighten up.

-zilla

Yeah thanks. If someone was having a go at me for describing the WTC attack as "a few bits of wreckage hitting the ground" I'm sure you'd be saying the same thing.

Incidentally you have never met me either. Funny how you can judge me but I can't judge JK.......

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Yeah thanks. If someone was having a go at me for describing the WTC attack as "a few bits of wreckage hitting the ground" I'm sure you'd be saying the same thing.

Incidentally you have never met me either. Funny how you can judge me but I can't judge JK.......

Like I said,...I could be wrong.... God knows I was wrong about JK. I was also on the "he's a kid who watched to many war movies" bandwagon until he took my challenge and called me.

What ensued was a fascinating conversation. He is real...and quite accomplished. A scary guy to be sure....but a guy who's very passionate with a concrete sense of right and wrong. Very Aristotalian.....I myself am more Socratic, more a fuzzy logic kind of guy. JK seems to see the world as very black and white. At another time I'd be utterly philosophically opposed to JK...but during a time of crisis and war I'm real glad to have people like him on our side. He's a warrior. That's no $hit.

-zilla

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Yeah thanks. If someone was having a go at me for describing the WTC attack as "a few bits of wreckage hitting the ground" I'm sure you'd be saying the same thing.

Incidentally you have never met me either. Funny how you can judge me but I can't judge JK.......

You sniveling little brat, the Lockerbie debate that you and I had resulted from my accurate observation that Europe had yet to suffer an attack from Al Qaeda, but was readily dictating to the United States (as Europe still does) that the US should not retaliate. That is what the Lockerbie conversation was about. When you said Europe was "attacked" via Lockerbie, that was laughable nonsense and I called you on it. Your damned right I said it was a handful of wreckage hitting the ground, because Europe was never attacked, even via Lockerbie. The terrorists figured out the culture of European airports and put a bomb on what--a US Airline. It wasn't a "British" plane, was it?

In Lockerbie, was a British airline brought down? If the US plane that had a bomb put on it by terrorists crashed in another town, it wouldn't be called "Lockerbie", right? No, it would have been collateral damage [insert town name here]. There was no way I was letting you get away with using that bombing of one of our civilian airplanes as an attack on "your country". It wasn't an attack on "your country".

Also, that accurate analysis by me of your leftist nonsense some time ago has nothing to do with my military service, so don't go there. You just had to hop in this thread with that to attack me while debating something about me. Typical leftist.

As far as the "Paki" comment goes, where I live Package Stores (liquor stores) are called Pakis. Should we censor them? I have good friends from both India and Pakistan who live near me, and they call each other Pakis because of "territory", not race. They are both of the same race. But no, I already explained that too and you had to snivel like the leftist you are and bring it up again.

Face it, Britain has suffered no attacks by Al Qaeda, and neither has any other European state. Yet even now there are millions of pro-Saddam communists assembling in Europe to protest America. It would be laughable if it weren't true. I give credit to some European states for claiming they have stopped terrorists attacks, but you know what? If you have never been attacked by Al Qaeda, you have never been attacked.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


You sniveling little brat, the Lockerbie debate that you and I had resulted from my accurate observation that Europe had yet to suffer an attack from Al Qaeda, but was readily dictating to the United States (as Europe still does) that the US should not retaliate. That is what the Lockerbie conversation was about. When you said Europe was "attacked" via Lockerbie, that was laughable nonsense and I called you on it. Your damned right I said it was a handful of wreckage hitting the ground, because Europe was never attacked, even via Lockerbie. The terrorists figured out the culture of European airports and put a bomb on what--a US Airline. It wasn't a "British" plane, was it?

In Lockerbie, was a British airline brought down? If the US plane that had a bomb put on it by terrorists crashed in another town, it wouldn't be called "Lockerbie", right? No, it would have been collateral damage [insert town name here]. There was no way I was letting you get away with using that bombing of one of our civilian airplanes as an attack on "your country". It wasn't an attack on "your country".

Also, that accurate analysis by me of your leftist nonsense some time ago has nothing to do with my military service, so don't go there. You just had to hop in this thread with that to attack me while debating something about me. Typical leftist.

As far as the "Paki" comment goes, where I live Package Stores (liquor stores) are called Pakis. Should we censor them? I have good friends from both India and Pakistan who live near me, and they call each other Pakis because of "territory", not race. They are both of the same race. But no, I already explained that too and you had to snivel like the leftist you are and bring it up again.

Face it, Britain has suffered no attacks by Al Qaeda, and neither has any other European state. Yet even now there are millions of pro-Saddam communists assembling in Europe to protest America. It would be laughable if it weren't true. I give credit to some European states for claiming they have stopped terrorists attacks, but you know what? If you have never been attacked by Al Qaeda, you have never been attacked.

JK

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
The locals wouldn't have time to hear my opinions. They are too busy cooking steaks for and appeasing Al Qaeda.

JK

Vermin

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Vermin

You know it is true. I am not going to let you get away with what you said. You have got to be kidding me.

Answer the questions.

Was the bomb that was put on the plane that exploded over Lockerbie a US airline? Here let me help you with the answer (Yes).

Has Britian ever been attacked by Al Qaeda? (No).

Are any other comments really necessary? Now since you were never attacked by Al Qaeda, does that give you the moral highground to dictate what the response should be from a country that has? (No).

There you go--a review of the facts.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


You know it is true. I am not going to let you get away with what you said. You have got to be kidding me.

Answer the questions.

Was the bomb that was put on the plane that exploded over Lockerbie a US airline? Here let me help you with the answer (Yes).

Has Britian ever been attacked by Al Qaeda? (No).

Are any other comments really necessary? Now since you were never attacked by Al Qaeda, does that give you the moral highground to dictate what the response should be from a country that has? (No).

There you go--a review of the facts.

JK

See edited post above.

Vermin

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


See edited post above.

Vermin

I take that as your agreement to everything I have just said.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


I take that as your agreement to everything I have just said.

JK

Originally posted by Jedi Knight:

A few scraps of metal fall on the ground and you guys have recurring nightmares of imaginary V2 rocket attacks

Vermin

[rikzilla]

LOL

So emotional!!

I'd like to sit down and play poker against both you guys :D :D

...or you could just go ahead and give me your wallets and save us all some time! ;)

-zilla

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland

Vermin
:D Shaun, have a shot of Glenlivet and chill. You can't change JK in a day. What would you estimate your progress so far to be, in approximate percentage?

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Are any other comments really necessary? Now since you were never attacked by Al Qaeda, does that give you the moral highground to dictate what the response should be from a country that has? (No).


Dictate? No. But is that what Shaun is trying to do?

Why should he be excluded from expressing his opinion? Just because someone is not American is no reason to disregard his opinion. Opinions can be well-meaning advice, for one. Secondly, the war against al Qaida is an international effort.

The US is not helping its cause by turning the world against it. It is also not helping its cause by going after Saddam. All the evidence suggests that Saddam had no more to do with 9/11 than did you, Jedi. (Though, in contrast to you and me, he celebrated it after it happened.)

Congratulations, Jedi, on your triumph in this thread. People who doubted your military service have changed their minds. Now flush with success, please show some charity toward Shaun who, when he calls you "vermin," knows not what he says (to paraphrase Jesus :D ). Admit he has a right to express his opinion, and wish him to do so without attacking you personally. I think you're big enough to make that concession.

Edited to add: Al Qaida did attack the British. Some of their citizens were killed in the World Trade Center. Citizens from eighty different countries died in that attack. Not all 3,000+ were Americans.

After reading this topic, I am now on the fence about JK's military service. I was mostly inclined to disbelieve all of it. It is only because of my respect for rikzilla that I am now on that fence, and has nothing to do with any arguments JK has made.

The weight of my respect for rikzilla is greater than I realized before now. With a few words, he managed to overcome the weight of my doubts of anything and everything JK has ever spouted. And that was a lot!

It wouldn't hurt for you to take a page from rikzilla's book, JK.

JK, you have said that you are treated disrespectfully in some circles because of your military service. Working with the premise that you actually served, I would posit that you are treated with disrespect in those circles for the same reasons you are here.

In your discussion on this forum, you are an extremist. And while I can not work up the venom that Shaun From Scotland has, I think he has some good points at the base of his comments.

Perhaps in person you are different. I noticed at the Amazing Meeting that some people are different from their on-line personas.

For a brief moment in one of your posts in this topic, I actually felt like I saw the real man behind the JK persona. And the real man was much more palatable.

See you on here.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by LukeT
After reading this topic, I am now on the fence about JK's military service. I was mostly inclined to disbelieve all of it. It is only because of my respect for rikzilla that I am now on that fence, and has nothing to do with any arguments JK has made.

The weight of my respect for rikzilla is greater than I realized before now. With a few words, he managed to overcome the weight of my doubts of anything and everything JK has ever spouted. And that was a lot!

It wouldn't hurt for you to take a page from rikzilla's book, JK.

JK, you have said that you are treated disrespectfully in some circles because of your military service. Working with the premise that you actually served, I would posit that you are treated with disrespect in those circles for the same reasons you are here.

In your discussion on this forum, you are an extremist. And while I can not work up the venom that Shaun From Scotland has, I think he has some good points at the base of his comments.

Perhaps in person you are different. I noticed at the Amazing Meeting that some people are different from their on-line personas.

For a brief moment in one of your posts in this topic, I actually felt like I saw the real man behind the JK persona. And the real man was much more palatable.

See you on here.

No with guys like you if I said I was a socialist commie, you would throw a banquet in my honor and demand a photo-op with me. Since I am not a socialist commie, it doesn't matter if I served or not, I am not part of the leftist club of thought, and as such I am a gulag candidate (I served in the military to liquidate gulag creators and their minions). You see, I am for real human rights and humanitarianism, not the humanitarianism crises that is generated by socialists and communists to empower the commie objectives of Marxists.

What I just said is sort of what is happening now with the "peace" demonstrations in London and elsewhere in Europe. You know, demonstrations against humanitarianism for the Iraqi people and demonstrations against freeing them from a socialist collaborator named Saddam Hussein.

Just helping you be clear about your real position.

JK

Oh, I get it now. You label everyone who doesn't like your style, or disagrees with your opinion, as a "lefty." Then you can claim the lefties are against you. Very compact, and very stupid.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by LukeT
Oh, I get it now. You label everyone who doesn't like your style, or disagrees with your opinion, as a "lefty." Then you can claim the lefties are against you. Very compact, and very stupid.

Not true. You make it sound like it is a perjorative and it is not. Most leftists are very proud to be leftists when they are with other leftists, but mysteriously find it an outrage to be told that they are by someone who is not a leftist.

JK

[Wayne Grabert]

Where I come from, we call lefties "southpaws."

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by LukeT
Oh, I get it now. You label everyone who doesn't like your style, or disagrees with your opinion, as a "lefty." Then you can claim the lefties are against you. Very compact, and very stupid. 'Lefty?' You're totally wrong. It's more like

... matriarchal totalitarian pinkie commie athiest islamofascist who should be drafted into the army so the bags could be 98% filled with dead chicks who just love to kill their babies anyhow ... probably envirocidal all of them ...

And that's about as neutral as they come where Jedi's from! :p

Wayne, aren't 'southpaw' used in boxing only? :confused:

[Aardvark_DK]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Not true. You make it sound like it is a perjorative and it is not. Most leftists are very proud to be leftists when they are with other leftists, but mysteriously find it an outrage to be told that they are by someone who is not a leftist.
That's not saying a whole lot since even Djengis Khan was "leftist" compared to you.

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by Bjorn
Wayne, aren't 'southpaw' used in boxing only? :confused:
Maybe that's where it originated, but it is more generally used to connote someone who favors the hand of the devil.

[Galadriel]

I actually find JK to be interesting reading. If he liked women, he'd be okay in my book. :D

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by Wayne Grabert

Maybe that's where it originated, but it is more generally used to connote someone who favors the hand of the devil. Where I come from, 'southpaw' is for boxers moving with the right fist up front, 'links' (meaning left in German) is for shooting (a rifle) the left-handed way - left-hand index-finger pulling the trigger.

I bet Jedi wouldn't even think about it. :p

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by Galadriel
I actually find JK to be interesting reading. If he liked women, he'd be okay in my book. :D
Galadriel, have you ever heard the story about the princess who turned a frog into a prince with a kiss? ;)

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Galadriel
I actually find JK to be interesting reading. If he liked women, he'd be okay in my book. :D

I am great reading. Believe it lol.

JK

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by Wayne Grabert

Galadriel, have you ever heard the story about the princess who turned a frog into a prince with a kiss? ;) The problem is, you have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince! :p

[Galadriel]

Originally posted by Wayne Grabert

Galadriel, have you ever heard the story about the princess who turned a frog into a prince with a kiss? ;)

I don't have to slip him the tongue, do I? :p

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by Galadriel


I don't have to slip him the tongue, do I? :p
Well, that wasn't mentioned in the story, but I guess it's okay to improvise. (Maybe you should wait until after the transformation to slip him the soul.)

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by LukeT
After reading this topic, I am now on the fence about JK's military service. I was mostly inclined to disbelieve all of it. It is only because of my respect for rikzilla that I am now on that fence, and has nothing to do with any arguments JK has made.

The weight of my respect for rikzilla is greater than I realized before now. With a few words, he managed to overcome the weight of my doubts of anything and everything JK has ever spouted. And that was a lot!

It wouldn't hurt for you to take a page from rikzilla's book, JK.

JK, you have said that you are treated disrespectfully in some circles because of your military service. Working with the premise that you actually served, I would posit that you are treated with disrespect in those circles for the same reasons you are here.

In your discussion on this forum, you are an extremist. And while I can not work up the venom that Shaun From Scotland has, I think he has some good points at the base of his comments.

Perhaps in person you are different. I noticed at the Amazing Meeting that some people are different from their on-line personas.

For a brief moment in one of your posts in this topic, I actually felt like I saw the real man behind the JK persona. And the real man was much more palatable.

See you on here.

Thanks Luke....

I don't deserve such praise....but thanks anyway.

Sometimes when reading AUP or Shanke I get carried away in anger....and I don't feel like a very nice guy. I never thought JK was a very nice guy either....but I could not help but agree with his less extreme positions.

When he called me we spoke like old friends....very easy and interesting conversation. You are right, not everyone truly embodies their on line persona. The way we are taken by others online is very subjective. Face to face, or direct phone contact is I believe a civilizing influence. JK,...no matter what he has said or done on this forum in the past is actually a very personable guy.

I can't speak to what he's posted in the past....but the guy who called me on the phone is/was a soldier. When I left the Army the last thing my first sgt said to me was "Robinson, you can leave the army, but the army will never leave you." He was right. I guess that's what it's like for all us vets. Something the others here can't/won't understand. The army hasn't left JK either. It's a quality that us old soldiers can recognise pretty easily.

Thanks again so much for your kind words Luke. I strain so damn hard to hear the "angels of my better nature" most of the time.. I researched Iraq and Saddam in order to not end up supporting the "wrong" end of the anti/pro-war debate...but with a couple beers in me I'm as big an ********* as JK ever was. Let me apologise to you here in advance for being so if you read any of my just-posted responses to Shanek and AUP :D

again,...thanks

-Rick

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Listen you piece of vermin. People like you didn't save my family during WWII. My family fought against people like you during WWII.

I didn't know that the Germans had a contingent of turncoat scots fighting for them.

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by hammegk


I didn't know that the Germans had a contingent of turncoat scots fighting for them.

HO HO Ho its the "willfully misinterpret posts" comedy show. My sides are splitting....

Ever thought about doing standup?

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


Ever thought about doing standup?

No. If I had I'd have mentioned that vermin are what crawl on you off the ewe you are having your way with.

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by hammegk


No. If I had I'd have mentioned that vermin are what crawl on you off the ewe you are having your way with.

Wow even funnier. And a stereotype. Not like you to resort to that.

I really am going to lose a lot of sleep worrying about your brilliantly original wit.......

JK
Have you finished cleaning my boots or do I have to tie you up in the dungeon again. http://dandaninc.50megs.com/smilies/crackwhip.gif

Jk does like women. He likes me and I am a woman, and he cleans my boots while I shout orders at him. I know he likes me for a fact I told him he had to and he had no choice about it either :p
lol :D

Pie the merciless ;)

[BrotherBluto]

Well, after exchanging a few PM's with JK over the weekend, I have changed my mind about his service:

I believe that he served in the Army, and I also believe that he served in Somalia. I don't know or care about rank or MOS, but he knew some details about things that would only really be known to someone who was in.

Oddly, what went the furthest to convince me was the totally different tone of things when conversing outside of the public forum. JK can be a personable fellow.

So with that said, Jedi--I apologize for what I said earlier.

Regards,
BrotherBluto

[Doubt]

Originally posted by BrotherBluto
Well, after exchanging a few PM's with JK over the weekend, I have changed my mind about his service:

I believe that he served in the Army, and I also believe that he served in Somalia. I don't know or care about rank or MOS, but he knew some details about things that would only really be known to someone who was in.

Oddly, what went the furthest to convince me was the totally different tone of things when conversing outside of the public forum. JK can be a personable fellow.

So with that said, Jedi--I apologize for what I said earlier.

Regards,
BrotherBluto

I'll take your word for it.

But he still does not win any points in the areas of integrity and accuracy.

Generally, if JK posts that X is true, then I will suspect that X is most likely false until I see evidence.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by BrotherBluto
Well, after exchanging a few PM's with JK over the weekend, I have changed my mind about his service:

I believe that he served in the Army, and I also believe that he served in Somalia. I don't know or care about rank or MOS, but he knew some details about things that would only really be known to someone who was in.

Oddly, what went the furthest to convince me was the totally different tone of things when conversing outside of the public forum. JK can be a personable fellow.

So with that said, Jedi--I apologize for what I said earlier.

Regards,
BrotherBluto

Thanks Bluto. I should have just PM'd you right away. In the future I will.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Pie
JK
Have you finished cleaning my boots or do I have to tie you up in the dungeon again. http://dandaninc.50megs.com/smilies/crackwhip.gif

Jk does like women. He likes me and I am a woman, and he cleans my boots while I shout orders at him. I know he likes me for a fact I told him he had to and he had no choice about it either :p
lol :D

Pie the merciless ;)

Hey Pie, you would make a good Drill Sergeant. I wonder what you would look like in a Smokey the Bear hat. ;)

JK

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by rikzilla


Sometimes when reading AUP or Shanke I get carried away in anger....and I don't feel like a very nice guy. I never thought JK was a very nice guy either....but I could not help but agree with his less extreme positions.

Let's see. AUP is our cuddly socialist. Shanek is our adorable Libertarian. JK is off the spectrum, but is warm and fuzzy nonetheless. I detect in you, Rik, a problem with political extremes. Hmmm. Let's start by talking about your childhood and your parents. :D

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by Pie
Jk does like women. He likes me and I am a woman, and he cleans my boots while I shout orders at him.
Wow! Pie and Galadriel are digging JK! The guy is another Hefner! Chicks dig a man in uniform!

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Hey Pie, you would make a good Drill Sergeant. I wonder what you would look like in a Smokey the Bear hat. ;)

JK
Lol JK Just for you I will wear a smokey bear hat but can I not wear the dungarees it makes me look like a butch lady :eek:shall I chant the mantra too?

'Namah samanta vajranam chanda maharoshana Sphataya hum traks ham mam' or go for the kill with the war song?

'DROWN THEIR BUTTS
CRUSH THEIR BUTTS
DROWN THEIR BUTTS
CRUSH THEIR BUTTS':D:D:D


Get back to cleaning my boots or give me my version of 20 pressups by kissing my feet 20 times now ;)

Originally posted by Wayne Grabert

Wow! Pie and Galadriel are digging JK! The guy is another Hefner! Chicks dig a man in uniform!

Jedi Hefner Knight ;)

Course I dig him :rolleyes:, I dig him trench's well Ok he digs them I shout orders and other things at him lol :D

Pie bunny-girl, had to put it that way bunny-girl pie sounds cannibalistic.

[Buzzsaw]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


I can't think of a bigger insult to people who fought for and gave their lives for freedom.

Our freedoms are threatened by people like JK. We owe people like him jacks**t.

Letting "people like JK" rant on an internet chatboard threatens our freedoms?

By all means, lets reserve our freedoms for the deserving! We need to license people to exercise their freedom of speech, or who knows what will happen! Let's just put the First Ammendment on the endangered species list along with the Second.

Wasn't there a patriotic quote along the lines of "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend unto the death your right to say it."?

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Buzzsaw


Letting "people like JK" rant on an internet chatboard threatens our freedoms?



I didn't say that. It's a little bit more complicated than that. WHERE he spouts s**t is not the point. Try reading the thread again.


Wow, reading comprehension is not your strong point is it?

[Buzzsaw]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland


I didn't say that. It's a little bit more complicated than that. WHERE he spouts s**t is not the point. Try reading the thread again.


Wow, reading comprehension is not your strong point is it?



So you're crying because he "spouts s**t" in your opinion. Why are you pissed about it? If his views have no merit, let him embarass himself by saying too much, or maybe you could try countering his statements with facts rather than emotion fiilled ad hominum attacks.

Oh, nice attack on me too, by the way. You sure told me! I guess supporting freedom of speech isn't one of your strong points, is it?

[hal bidlack]

let's watch our language, eh?:)

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Buzzsaw


So you're crying because he "spouts s**t" in your opinion. Why are you pissed about it? If his views have no merit, let him embarass himself by saying too much, or maybe you could try countering his statements with facts rather than emotion fiilled ad hominum attacks.

Oh, nice attack on me too, by the way. You sure told me! I guess supporting freedom of speech isn't one of your strong points, is it?

Wow I never thought I would have to explain something as simple as this.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT FREEDOM OF SPEECH!

Got that?

SHOW ME THE POST WHERE I SAID JK SHOULD BE BANNED, PREVENTED FROM POSTING OR PREVENTED FROM SAYING WHAT HE WANTS ON THE BOARD?

Gonna be a long wait methinks....

You said:

"Letting "people like JK" rant on an internet chatboard threatens our freedoms?"

That is absolutely not the point I was making. I was responding to a point made by Rikzilla that JK deserves my respect because he was a soldier, protects our freedoms yaddah yaddah yaddah...

I made the point that it is people who hold ATTITUDES like JK who are a threat to our freedom. Were good, Arabs are bad. A murderer who killed several nurses was driven to it my matriarchal nazi fascists blah blah blah blah.... Check his posts for a better idea of what a hate filled little bigot he is.

"If his views have no merit, let him embarass himself by saying too much, or maybe you could try countering his statements with facts rather than emotion fiilled ad hominum attacks".

Wow, you really haven't been on this board much have you?

Sorry, if you can't follow a thread and attribute statements to me which are palpably not true, bear in mind the motto of Scotland:

"Nemo me impune lacessit".

[Galadriel]

Originally posted by Wayne Grabert

Wow! Pie and Galadriel are digging JK! The guy is another Hefner! Chicks dig a man in uniform!

Well, "dig" is kind of a strong word. But he spells things right, uses proper grammar, and doesn't abuse the caps lock key. There are certain topics that I feel he doesn't view realistically, but he's entitled to his views and for the most part he expresses them well.

And JK, I'm not looking for another argument, so I won't start if you don't! ;)

[neutrino_cannon]

:confused:

[Wayne Grabert]

Originally posted by neutrino_cannon
:confused:
You're not a fan of The Twilight Zone, are you?

Oh, well, it doesn't matter. You're here now and there's no escape! :eek:

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Galadriel


Well, "dig" is kind of a strong word. But he spells things right, uses proper grammar, and doesn't abuse the caps lock key. There are certain topics that I feel he doesn't view realistically, but he's entitled to his views and for the most part he expresses them well.

And JK, I'm not looking for another argument, so I won't start if you don't! ;)

I never argue with anyone lol. :)

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland
THIS IS NOT ABOUT FREEDOM OF SPEECH!


Oh, I think with you it is.

JK

[Shaun from Scotland]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Oh, I think with you it is.

JK

Like so many other things, wrong again vermin.......

[NullPointerException]

Having quite a bit of experience with people in the military myself I'd have to say that JK talks the talk and walks the walk of a serviceman.