What didn't happen

[Shalamar]

In the context of NIST, this is the "magic bullet". Just try to describe one possible trajectory or path for any object striking the fireproofing on the floor trusses on the south side of the building. Take one piece of the airplane and describe how it travels through the buildling. Remember that an impact more than 60 degrees from perpendicular was shown by NIST not to remove fireproofing at the assumed energy levels.

Someday, it may very well be shown that the building collapsed due to impact and fire, but NIST has not credibly demonstrated this.

It was magic Pixies!

[WildCat]

Someday, it may very well be shown that the building collapsed due to impact and fire,
Not under your standards of proof.

[SDC]

Russia was still a superpower. It still had significant quantities of nuclear weapons. It was the only nation which could have done great damage to the United States.

Just because the Cold War had thawed did not erase forty years of mutual rivalry, suspicion, and distrust. The collapse of the former Soviet Union eased tensions, it did not eliminate them nor the potential for them.

Don't forget bureaucratic continuity. We've got a "Soviet, whoops, Russian program," and many of the same people still in place, and that means that we will tend to keep looking in the same places for threats.

[ZENSMACK89]

It's just not accurate...

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/douglass/2004/0907.html

As though this were not bad enough, as the Soviet Union went through a planned dissolution and metamorphosis back into Russia, U.S. policy quickly changed. Victory in the Cold War was declared. We assumed the Russians were no longer enemies but rather long-lost friends to be welcomed back with open arms. Accordingly, U.S. intelligence collection directed toward the former Soviet Union, Eastern Europe and Afghanistan was, in effect, shut down except for a minuscule effort to keep track of strategic nuclear missiles. This curtailment, often blamed on the Clinton Administration, was a decision of the George H. W. Bush White House that was implemented even before Clinton was elected President in 1992. The decrease then continued under President Clinton.

[Corsair 115]

It's just not accurate...Notice your link specifically mentions intelligence assets. It says absolutely nothing about defence policies, procedures, and practices, which is what we are talking about.

Now, if you could dig up official documents which conclusively illustrate that NORAD had changed its practices to no longer consider (Russian) aircraft penetrating into U.S. airspace as being the primary national security threat but instead to consider hijacked aircraft operating within U.S. airspace to be the primary threat, then you might have something. Including documents which demonstrate that fighter pilots were being trained to intercept commerical airliners within U.S. airspace as opposed to being trained to intercept (Russian) aircraft heading towards U.S. airspace would also help your case.

I await your research...

[ZENSMACK89]

Notice your link specifically mentions intelligence assets. It says absolutely nothing about defence policies, procedures, and practices, which is what we are talking about.

Now, if you could dig up official documents which conclusively illustrate that NORAD had changed its practices to no longer consider (Russian) aircraft penetrating into U.S. airspace as being the primary national security threat but instead to consider hijacked aircraft operating within U.S. airspace to be the primary threat, then you might have something. Including documents which demonstrate that fighter pilots were being trained to intercept commerical airliners within U.S. airspace as opposed to being trained to intercept (Russian) aircraft heading towards U.S. airspace would also help your case.

I await your research...
Oh I'm sorry was intelligence failure not a part of 9/11?

And I have to say you got me there if you are implying that different agencies had their signals crossed on what exactly they considered a threat anymore.

[Corsair 115]

Oh I'm sorry was intelligence failure not a part of 9/11? I'm sorry, but your answer is incorrect. Reason: wrong subject.

Please try again.

We were talking about standard military procedures and practices in terms of defence of U.S. airspace.

[ZENSMACK89]

I'm sorry, but your answer is incorrect. Reason: wrong subject.

Please try again.

We were talking about standard military procedures and practices in terms of defence of U.S. airspace.

I said you got me there. You know what else I think? I think that if the Russians back around 9/11 did launch a missile at the US or and were successful there would be no shortage of apologist for NORAD. I can hear it now...

"How was poor NORAD to know? The Soviet Union was no more. We could never imagine they could still attack us on such a grand scale"

And if Russia or China were to attack us today and be successful it would be…

"How was poor NORAD to know? Since 9/11 they’ve been concentrating on domestic terrorism.”

[SDC]

I said you got me there. You know what else I think? I think that if the Russians back around 9/11 did launch a missile at the US or and were successful there would be no shortage of apologist for NORAD. I can hear it now...

"How was poor NORAD to know? The Soviet Union was no more. We could never imagine they could still attack us on such a grand scale" ...



This is an absolutely, unutterably stupid comment. In so many ways.

[dudalb]

I said you got me there. You know what else I think? I think that if the Russians back around 9/11 did launch a missile at the US or and were successful there would be no shortage of apologist for NORAD. I can hear it now...

"How was poor NORAD to know? The Soviet Union was no more. We could never imagine they could still attack us on such a grand scale" ...

If no one else will,I will put this in for a Stundie.

[HyJinX]

Zen, I think you need a break from this place. A "mini" vacation away from it all. Collect your thoughts. Relax a bit.

Just a suggestion.

[WildCat]

I said you got me there. You know what else I think? I think that if the Russians back around 9/11 did launch a missile at the US or and were successful there would be no shortage of apologist for NORAD. I can hear it now...

"How was poor NORAD to know? The Soviet Union was no more. We could never imagine they could still attack us on such a grand scale"

And if Russia or China were to attack us today and be successful it would be…

"How was poor NORAD to know? Since 9/11 they’ve been concentrating on domestic terrorism.”
Wow! :jaw-dropp

[SDC]

If no one else will,I will put this in for a Stundie.

Dudalb, go ahead. Z's comment lacks the wit or grace one would wish for, but for sheer jaw-dropping stupidity it is hard to beat.

[HyJinX]

I think Zen is in a footrace with Lyte to see who can reach the summit of Mt. Ridiculous first.

[ZENSMACK89]

If no one else will,I will put this in for a Stundie.


Well what are you waiting for? You think I can win this time?

[DGM]

Well what are you waiting for? You think I can win this time?
God knows you try hard enough!

[ZENSMACK89]

Dudalb, go ahead. Z's comment lacks the wit or grace one would wish for, but for sheer jaw-dropping stupidity it is hard to beat.
Exactly what it sounds like to me when some idiots endlessly apologize and make excuses for NIST, the 9/11 commission, and all the security failures of 9/11.

sheer jaw-dropping stupidity.

[DGM]

Exactly what it sounds like to me when some idiots endlessly apologize and make excuses for NIST, the 9/11 commission, and all the security failures of 9/11.

sheer jaw-dropping stupidity.
Must be real quiet in your world.

[GT/CS]

I said you got me there. You know what else I think? I think that if the Russians back around 9/11 did launch a missile at the US or and were successful there would be no shortage of apologist for NORAD. I can hear it now...

"How was poor NORAD to know? The Soviet Union was no more. We could never imagine they could still attack us on such a grand scale"

And if Russia or China were to attack us today and be successful it would be…

"How was poor NORAD to know? Since 9/11 they’ve been concentrating on domestic terrorism.”

So are you saying that the attacks were, in fact, by the terrorists and the federal government's only involvement is by the incompetence of their intellegence agencies and defense systems? And the whole time I thought you didn't believe the official version.