Types of credit/debit card fraud; educate yourself

[AudioFreak]

This is more meant to be informative but if you have stories or other expertise to share, please do so.

Introduction
I work for a very large bank as a fraud analyst, specifically for debit card fraud. Prior to this job, I'd dealt with identity theft usually in the capacity of contacting debtors only to find out that someone else had created a fraudulent account in their name. Once I started working specifically with debit cards, I was amazed to see the kind of things that people really do.

Internet/Phone Orders
Of course, the most common type of fraud we see on cards is e-commerce. Someone gets ahold of your card number and orders things online. I've even seen it go through without verifying the CVV2 code off the back and a wrong expiration date, so I don't entirely trust those security measures to brick-wall anyone from making an order with incomplete information.

Often times if they do not have a physical card, yours or a counterfeit, they will process a small transaction, usually not more than a dollar. Just to ensure that the card works. This is typically the tip of the iceberg so watch closely don't ignore an unrecognized charge simply because you don't feel it's worth your time to call the merchant to verify the authenticity of the charge. Sometimes these merchants are, in fact, completely bogus.

Not as any reflection on the merchants, but we also typically see online gambling and money-order sites used to debit an account to launder funds. Orders are also placed over the phone since a card need not be physically present.

Counterfeit Cards
I didn't realize that this type of thing actually went on, just because it seems A) really ballsy and B) like a lot of trouble to do. There are two categories of counterfeit cards: embossed and skimmed.

Embossed cards are not functional, but are simply pieces of plastic that look like have your number printed on a fake card. Typically, merchants will try to swipe the card to no avail and will have to key in the transaction manually. In the end, the crook has whatever name they like printed on the card and it's safe to say their ID will match.

Skimmed cards are very interesting to me. With a skimmed counterfeit scenario, there is a fully functional counterfeit card. That means it has an exact copy of the magnetic stripe off the back of your own card and will work at any merchant with a card reader. There is a secondary track in that stripe which contains the CVV2 number; this may or may not be present.

A skim occurs when your card is not in your possession and is swiped through a device that is about the size of a pager called a "skimmer." This device stores the card's information for use later to generate a counterfeit. Skims can also be created by hacking into gas-pumps or any credit/debit terminal, however the security on these devices makes getting the card out of your hands the easiest way to do it. The second easiest is a phishing site. My most memorable phishing instance was a woman in Chicago who fell for a paypal phishing scam and within 24 hours of her new card arriving, there was a skimmed counterfeit copy trying to buy train tickets in Romania. No joke.

Lost/Stolen cards
This one is pretty self-explanatory but can have some serious repercussions for some consumers, the biggest being ATM fraud. Some people, believe it or not, do not memorize their PIN. People actually do write their PIN on the back of their card.

In the event that you lose your card and have the PIN in your wallet/purse/written on your card, a criminal now has access to however much the bank will allow out of the ATM in a single day not to mention the ability to perform cash-back transactions. In many instances the bank has no legal obligation to refund these transactions because the PIN is supposed to be a top-level indicator that the person performing the transaction is, in fact, you. You might be refunded if there is sufficient evidence that you are not defrauding the bank, but this process is much more difficult to resolve as an investigation must be performed.

How do these people get my card information?
The first question I get asked when I confirm fraudulent activity on an account is "How did they get my information?" It's a question that's impossible to answer at that point and people often times want to point the finger at the bank or a merchant they recently dealt with. This is rarely the case. Fraudsters know that this is what most people assume so, depending on the situation, they often wait weeks or months after obtaining your information before they use it to allow you to forget about your interaction with them or the chain of events that put your info in their hands.

A LOT of the fraud I see is not the work of someone who stumbled on a card's info and decided to try a purchase. In most cases it's the work of deliberate criminals; professional fraudsters. They will do anything from make fake websites (phishing) to manufacturing artificial cards or even making up their own merchants to debit your account, not to mention hacking into your computer or a merchant to obtain the account's info. Some criminals try to steal computers from businesses in the hopes that there will be card information stored on the hard drive.

It is RARE that internet, skimmed or embossed counterfeit activity is even in the same geographical region, however there is a bit of a trend to target those who are traveling. I've spoken to people who confirm skimmed fraud in another state and admit to having been in that region weeks or months prior.

Other forms of theft occur via mail interception, which can result in an account takeover where the crook changes all your contact information to their own but keeps charging against your account. Other times they can try to obtain the card information from the mail without making their tampering evident. You get the card a day later than expected (not enough to indicate anything is wrong) and by the time you can start spending, someone has already beat you to it.

How can I protect myself?
While your bank likely has a zero fraud liability policy, that's no reason to not try and protect yourself. The following things can help save you from a potential disaster.

-Keep your card in your possession at all times. If the card is out of your possession, say at a restaurant when the waiter takes your card to ring it up, check the card upon return to make sure it really is YOUR card that has been returned and not someone else's.

-Check your accounts online with your bank on a daily basis. If you see a transaction that you don't recognize, call your bank immediately. They are more than happy to put a block on your card until you can confirm the activity with the merchant or a family member who may have made a charge. Once the charge is confirmed as legitimate, they'll simply unblock the card. It's beneficial to you because it saves you the headache of dealing with the wake of fraud and saves the bank the financial loss of reimbursing any further unauthorized activity.

-If you are expecting a new or replacement card, if it's not there in 7 business days, call the bank to alert them you haven't seen it. Ensure that they document the contact because in the instance that a criminal has intercepted your card in the mail, they may also have the PIN that was sent with the new card and already started going to town.

-Have your bank's customer service number in your contacts on your cell phone. In the event that your card is lost or stolen, the last thing you need to do is waste time trying to find a statement or wait until you get home to find their phone number. If there's a problem, you can call them right away. And while you're at it, make sure that they have a valid contact number to reach you should they ever need to.

-If your bank is trying to get in touch with you, especially if they identify themselves as fraud, fraud prevention or risk management, GET BACK TO THEM ASAP. Odds are that they see something on your account that they suspect is fraudulent and want to talk to you to ensure that the charge is legitimately yours. EVEN IF YOU DON'T SEE ANYTHING ONLINE!

I have spoken with lots of customers who are rude and disinterested in speaking with me because they do the above. They check their accounts constantly and didn't see anything that day. The difference between the bank and you is that :

A) we see things in real time and work cases in real time as well so unless you checked within the last 90 seconds, we have more up-to-date info than you do.

B) when you look online you do not see declined transactions. We see every ATTEMPT where you see every authorization. If the bank is doing its job right, fraudulent transactions are spotted at the authorization stage and declined. Even though the charge didn't go through, if your info is out there and the bank wants to verify the authenticity of the attempt. If valid, they will allow the charge on the next attempt; if fraudulent, they want to shut the card down ASAP.

What is my bank doing to help?
I can't speak for other financial institutions but I know that where I work we have a complex system that determines the probability of a transaction being fraudulent. It references an enormous amount of data; everything from your typical spending patterns to geographical proximity to your address and cases of reported fraud in the past with the particular merchant you're buying from. This impressive system analyzes every debit and ATM transaction with our cards across the globe.

The system we use can autonomously block transactions on an individual basis as well as allowing us access to block and close cards. Depending on the situation, we may try to contact you to verify the charges or attempts. Usually if we can't reach anyone, we'll block the card as a precautionary measure until we can speak with you.

In some cases, the police will arrest an individual who is in possession of multiple counterfeit cards or card numbers. These reports are usually sent to VISA or MasterCard directly who will then alert the issuing bank. The bank will, typically, close the card immediately and will then contact you to verify no fraud has taken place on your card.

For information on what your bank is doing, call them up and ask them. Of course, they can't disclose all the specifics for fear of you being a fraudster and using that information to circumvent the system, they can give you some of their basic information and policies so you can know what to expect from your bank if something comes up.

In closing...
I hope that this has been informative. While I caution everyone to take care with their accounts, the fact of the matter is that when fraud does occur on a card, it is often times not the fault of the victim or the bank. These are deliberate and often very creative criminals who are perpetrating a crime.

It's been my experience as a fraud analyst that having a debit or credit card is like being automatically enrolled in a lottery. I've seen some intense fraud happen to even the most careful of consumers. Don't take this as "be paranoid about your card" but rather suggestions and good habits to help prevent being victimized and stop fraud at the first sign.

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Have your bank's customer service number in your contacts on your cell phone. In the event that your card is lost or stolen, the last thing you need to do is waste time trying to find a statement or wait until you get home to find their phone number. If there's a problem, you can call them right away. And while you're at it, make sure that they have a valid contact number to reach you should they ever need to.

-If your bank is trying to get in touch with you, especially if they identify themselves as fraud, fraud prevention or risk management, GET BACK TO THEM ASAP. Odds are that they see something on your account that they suspect is fraudulent and want to talk to you to ensure that the charge is legitimately yours. EVEN IF YOU DON'T SEE ANYTHING ONLINE!

Lots of good advice - thanks.

To make one small point, remember and combine the two bits of advice I have quoted. One method that people use to get your details is to phone up pretending to be your bank dealing with a dodgy transaction, they then get you to check the card is in your possession and confirm this by giving them all the information they need to raise a charge on it.

So if the bank phone you, get a name and an extension number (NOT a direct dial) and call back on a phone number that you know is genuine (like the one you have stored in your cellphone).

[Bethany]

Good stuff. Thanks for the information.

[AudioFreak]

So if the bank phone you, get a name and an extension number (NOT a direct dial) and call back on a phone number that you know is genuine (like the one you have stored in your cellphone).

Indeed! This is one we encounter a lot. The sad thing is that we're unable to give much info; we can't give out our last names or employee numbers. But we ALWAYS advise customers who are nervous to call the number off the back of the card and ask to be connected to our department.

There is no reason, if you get a call from someone claiming to be your bank, that you shouldn't be able to call the number on the back of your card and be connected to the same area that's allegedly calling you.

[JonnyFive]

Good advice.

My wife's debit card number was stolen at some point recently, and some jerk tried to buy $1,800 worth of Tahitian Noni juice about a month ago. Fortunately, the merchant didn't complete the transactions, so the money was just flagged as being held for the pending transaction until the transaction request died in a couple business days, and we cancelled the card right away.

Why the hell would anyone buy Noni juice, of all things? Is there some kind of scam going where someone buys it and resells it or something?

[AudioFreak]

Why the hell would anyone buy Noni juice, of all things? Is there some kind of scam going where someone buys it and resells it or something?

I'm amazed at the stuff people buy. I've seen everything from flowers (you know, the people you see selling them on the street for a dollar? now you know where they got them), to home improvements at Lowe's to Enzyte. Probably the dumbest of all, I've even seen utility bills paid with a frauded card. As if we couldn't subpoena the service address? Ridiculous.

[JonnyFive]

I'm amazed at the stuff people buy. I've seen everything from flowers (you know, the people you see selling them on the street for a dollar? now you know where they got them), to home improvements at Lowe's to Enzyte. Probably the dumbest of all, I've even seen utility bills paid with a frauded card. As if we couldn't subpoena the service address? Ridiculous.

Ah, got it. I was wondering why the hell they were trying to purchase $1,800 worth of stupid, overpriced juice with our bank account.

Probably planning to resell it somewhere or some-such rot. :)

[AudioFreak]

I dunno.... I mean, who doesn't like juice?

[Baron Samedi]

Ah, got it. I was wondering why the hell they were trying to purchase $1,800 worth of stupid, overpriced juice with our bank account.

Probably planning to resell it somewhere or some-such rot. :)

You buy the juice on the stolen card.
You show up 2 days later to return the juice. When the store returns the $1,800, you put it on a second credit card (under a fake name).

Stores are supposed to put returns only against the original credit card, but I've seen it happen where they don't. One scam I've seen involves using two credit cards. I make a big purchase on my first card, the one that collects air miles. I return the item the next day, and get the return on my second card. The second card now has a big credit, so I take that money out in cash to bring the account back to $0, and use the cash to pay my air club card. All told, I haven't spent a thing, but I've just skimmed off some air miles. It's not legally a scam, but just hardcore abuse of the rules.

[YoPopa]

I hope this isn't too much of a derail.

I used my charge card to purchase an Alpine Blackbird navigation system. That was a bad move because as it turns out the Alpine Blackbird is a POS, maybe the worst GPS unit available.

But mine was not just crap, it was defective from the first day I tried it. I tried to return it to the store 7 days later and was refused. The owner said that all claims for service had to go through Alpine. I said I didn't want service, I wanted a refund or store credit and he again refused saying that his store policy was No Returns after three days.

I know that he could not get away with that in most states but this is New Hampshire we're talking about so I am not really sure if there are any consumer protection laws.

I filed a complaint with the charge card and now after two months I finally got their reply. The store owner is disputing my claim and I have to write a detailed letter explaining why he is wrong.

Is there a chance that the card company is going to side with the store and its' ridiculous policy of not accepting defective merchandise returns?

Should I detail every instance of how the guy lied about the quality of the product and his misrepresentation of Alpine's policies or should I just stick to the "it was defective & I tried to return it in a reasonable time" angle?

Sometimes the more you write the less people read so I don't want to overstate my case but I will spend as much time as is warranted to make this slime-ball pay.

Yo

[technoextreme]

This is more meant to be informative but if you have stories or other expertise to share, please do so.

Introduction
I work for a very large bank as a fraud analyst, specifically for debit card fraud. Prior to this job, I'd dealt with identity theft usually in the capacity of contacting debtors only to find out that someone else had created a fraudulent account in their name. Once I started working specifically with debit cards, I was amazed to see the kind of things that people really do.

Internet/Phone Orders
Of course, the most common type of fraud we see on cards is e-commerce. Someone gets ahold of your card number and orders things online. I've even seen it go through without verifying the CVV2 code off the back and a wrong expiration date, so I don't entirely trust those security measures to brick-wall anyone from making an order with incomplete information.

Often times if they do not have a physical card, yours or a counterfeit, they will process a small transaction, usually not more than a dollar. Just to ensure that the card works. This is typically the tip of the iceberg so watch closely don't ignore an unrecognized charge simply because you don't feel it's worth your time to call the merchant to verify the authenticity of the charge. Sometimes these merchants are, in fact, completely bogus.

Not as any reflection on the merchants, but we also typically see online gambling and money-order sites used to debit an account to launder funds. Orders are also placed over the phone since a card need not be physically present.

Counterfeit Cards
I didn't realize that this type of thing actually went on, just because it seems A) really ballsy and B) like a lot of trouble to do. There are two categories of counterfeit cards: embossed and skimmed.

Embossed cards are not functional, but are simply pieces of plastic that look like have your number printed on a fake card. Typically, merchants will try to swipe the card to no avail and will have to key in the transaction manually. In the end, the crook has whatever name they like printed on the card and it's safe to say their ID will match.

Skimmed cards are very interesting to me. With a skimmed counterfeit scenario, there is a fully functional counterfeit card. That means it has an exact copy of the magnetic stripe off the back of your own card and will work at any merchant with a card reader. There is a secondary track in that stripe which contains the CVV2 number; this may or may not be present.

A skim occurs when your card is not in your possession and is swiped through a device that is about the size of a pager called a "skimmer." This device stores the card's information for use later to generate a counterfeit. Skims can also be created by hacking into gas-pumps or any credit/debit terminal, however the security on these devices makes getting the card out of your hands the easiest way to do it. The second easiest is a phishing site. My most memorable phishing instance was a woman in Chicago who fell for a paypal phishing scam and within 24 hours of her new card arriving, there was a skimmed counterfeit copy trying to buy train tickets in Romania. No joke.

Lost/Stolen cards
This one is pretty self-explanatory but can have some serious repercussions for some consumers, the biggest being ATM fraud. Some people, believe it or not, do not memorize their PIN. People actually do write their PIN on the back of their card.

In the event that you lose your card and have the PIN in your wallet/purse/written on your card, a criminal now has access to however much the bank will allow out of the ATM in a single day not to mention the ability to perform cash-back transactions. In many instances the bank has no legal obligation to refund these transactions because the PIN is supposed to be a top-level indicator that the person performing the transaction is, in fact, you. You might be refunded if there is sufficient evidence that you are not defrauding the bank, but this process is much more difficult to resolve as an investigation must be performed.

How do these people get my card information?
The first question I get asked when I confirm fraudulent activity on an account is "How did they get my information?" It's a question that's impossible to answer at that point and people often times want to point the finger at the bank or a merchant they recently dealt with. This is rarely the case. Fraudsters know that this is what most people assume so, depending on the situation, they often wait weeks or months after obtaining your information before they use it to allow you to forget about your interaction with them or the chain of events that put your info in their hands.

A LOT of the fraud I see is not the work of someone who stumbled on a card's info and decided to try a purchase. In most cases it's the work of deliberate criminals; professional fraudsters. They will do anything from make fake websites (phishing) to manufacturing artificial cards or even making up their own merchants to debit your account, not to mention hacking into your computer or a merchant to obtain the account's info. Some criminals try to steal computers from businesses in the hopes that there will be card information stored on the hard drive.

It is RARE that internet, skimmed or embossed counterfeit activity is even in the same geographical region, however there is a bit of a trend to target those who are traveling. I've spoken to people who confirm skimmed fraud in another state and admit to having been in that region weeks or months prior.

Other forms of theft occur via mail interception, which can result in an account takeover where the crook changes all your contact information to their own but keeps charging against your account. Other times they can try to obtain the card information from the mail without making their tampering evident. You get the card a day later than expected (not enough to indicate anything is wrong) and by the time you can start spending, someone has already beat you to it.

How can I protect myself?
While your bank likely has a zero fraud liability policy, that's no reason to not try and protect yourself. The following things can help save you from a potential disaster.

-Keep your card in your possession at all times. If the card is out of your possession, say at a restaurant when the waiter takes your card to ring it up, check the card upon return to make sure it really is YOUR card that has been returned and not someone else's.

-Check your accounts online with your bank on a daily basis. If you see a transaction that you don't recognize, call your bank immediately. They are more than happy to put a block on your card until you can confirm the activity with the merchant or a family member who may have made a charge. Once the charge is confirmed as legitimate, they'll simply unblock the card. It's beneficial to you because it saves you the headache of dealing with the wake of fraud and saves the bank the financial loss of reimbursing any further unauthorized activity.

-If you are expecting a new or replacement card, if it's not there in 7 business days, call the bank to alert them you haven't seen it. Ensure that they document the contact because in the instance that a criminal has intercepted your card in the mail, they may also have the PIN that was sent with the new card and already started going to town.

-Have your bank's customer service number in your contacts on your cell phone. In the event that your card is lost or stolen, the last thing you need to do is waste time trying to find a statement or wait until you get home to find their phone number. If there's a problem, you can call them right away. And while you're at it, make sure that they have a valid contact number to reach you should they ever need to.

-If your bank is trying to get in touch with you, especially if they identify themselves as fraud, fraud prevention or risk management, GET BACK TO THEM ASAP. Odds are that they see something on your account that they suspect is fraudulent and want to talk to you to ensure that the charge is legitimately yours. EVEN IF YOU DON'T SEE ANYTHING ONLINE!

I have spoken with lots of customers who are rude and disinterested in speaking with me because they do the above. They check their accounts constantly and didn't see anything that day. The difference between the bank and you is that :

A) we see things in real time and work cases in real time as well so unless you checked within the last 90 seconds, we have more up-to-date info than you do.

B) when you look online you do not see declined transactions. We see every ATTEMPT where you see every authorization. If the bank is doing its job right, fraudulent transactions are spotted at the authorization stage and declined. Even though the charge didn't go through, if your info is out there and the bank wants to verify the authenticity of the attempt. If valid, they will allow the charge on the next attempt; if fraudulent, they want to shut the card down ASAP.

What is my bank doing to help?
I can't speak for other financial institutions but I know that where I work we have a complex system that determines the probability of a transaction being fraudulent. It references an enormous amount of data; everything from your typical spending patterns to geographical proximity to your address and cases of reported fraud in the past with the particular merchant you're buying from. This impressive system analyzes every debit and ATM transaction with our cards across the globe.

The system we use can autonomously block transactions on an individual basis as well as allowing us access to block and close cards. Depending on the situation, we may try to contact you to verify the charges or attempts. Usually if we can't reach anyone, we'll block the card as a precautionary measure until we can speak with you.

In some cases, the police will arrest an individual who is in possession of multiple counterfeit cards or card numbers. These reports are usually sent to VISA or MasterCard directly who will then alert the issuing bank. The bank will, typically, close the card immediately and will then contact you to verify no fraud has taken place on your card.

For information on what your bank is doing, call them up and ask them. Of course, they can't disclose all the specifics for fear of you being a fraudster and using that information to circumvent the system, they can give you some of their basic information and policies so you can know what to expect from your bank if something comes up.

In closing...
I hope that this has been informative. While I caution everyone to take care with their accounts, the fact of the matter is that when fraud does occur on a card, it is often times not the fault of the victim or the bank. These are deliberate and often very creative criminals who are perpetrating a crime.

It's been my experience as a fraud analyst that having a debit or credit card is like being automatically enrolled in a lottery. I've seen some intense fraud happen to even the most careful of consumers. Don't take this as "be paranoid about your card" but rather suggestions and good habits to help prevent being victimized and stop fraud at the first sign.
You forgot the step where the thief steals the credit card in the mail before it even leaves the state where the letter was sent. Not only that but the lost stolen card is a moot point. The vast majority of time I don't use my PIN number for the transactions because the card itself is accepted where ever Visa cards are used.

[AudioFreak]

I filed a complaint with the charge card and now after two months I finally got their reply. The store owner is disputing my claim and I have to write a detailed letter explaining why he is wrong.

Is there a chance that the card company is going to side with the store and its' ridiculous policy of not accepting defective merchandise returns?

Should I detail every instance of how the guy lied about the quality of the product and his misrepresentation of Alpine's policies or should I just stick to the "it was defective & I tried to return it in a reasonable time" angle?

Sometimes the more you write the less people read so I don't want to overstate my case but I will spend as much time as is warranted to make this slime-ball pay.

Yo

In all honesty I'd bet the card company is not going to be much help. From their standpoint you authorized the transaction by signing off on it and that doesn't change just because you don't like their poor product or slimey policies. Depending on the company and the amount, they might prove to be helpful though.

I'd document every step of this unfortunate transaction and report him to the BBB. They'll bring down some fun on him.

[technoextreme]

In all honesty I'd bet the card company is not going to be much help. From their standpoint you authorized the transaction by signing off on it and that doesn't change just because you don't like their poor product or slimey policies. Depending on the company and the amount, they might prove to be helpful though.

I'd document every step of this unfortunate transaction and report him to the BBB. They'll bring down some fun on him.Unless you have American Express. Im fairly certain they advertised a policy that would help him out.

[AudioFreak]

You forgot the step where the thief steals the credit card in the mail before it even leaves the state where the letter was sent. Not only that but the lost stolen card is a moot point. The vast majority of time I don't use my PIN number for the transactions because the card itself is accepted where ever Visa cards are used.

No, I actually covered that when I said:

Other forms of theft occur via mail interception, which can result in an account takeover where the crook changes all your contact information to their own but keeps charging against your account. Other times they can try to obtain the card information from the mail without making their tampering evident. You get the card a day later than expected (not enough to indicate anything is wrong) and by the time you can start spending, someone has already beat you to it.

Stolen is not a moot point because people's cards do still get stolen and often times by crafty means. For example, you go to a restaurant and use your card. The waiter takes your card and, while out of your sight, swaps it with a fake. You go home and go to bed and wake up with a bunch of charges on your card only to realize the one you're carrying in your wallet is either not yours or entirely bogus (but visually similar). Do you really check your card when it comes back to you every single time to make sure it's YOURS?

I can't tell you how many times I've called someone up because of suspicious activity on their account and they suddenly realize that they're no longer in possession of the card. It's not purse snatching we're talking about here.

People leave their belongings in gym lockers all the time. Someone just needs to pop that locker open while you're working out and steal your card or make a swap.

Also beware of people around your card with their cell phones; the cameras in even the free phones now are good enough that a snapshot of a card will yeild legibile information to process transactions online.

As well, there are merchants that ONLY accept debit, though most will process through VISA just fine.

[YoPopa]

In all honesty I'd bet the card company is not going to be much help. From their standpoint you authorized the transaction by signing off on it and that doesn't change just because you don't like their poor product or slimey policies.

Thanks AF, that's not what I wanted to hear but I appreciate you taking the time.

To re-iterate, it's not that I just don't like the product or the merchant's slimy tactics. It's that the product was non merchantable. It never did what it was supposed to do, not poorly, not at all.

While I was waiting for your reply I did a little research on the subject as it relates to NH and I got this from http://doj.nh.gov/consumer/sourcebook/warranties.html

In New Hampshire, the UCC (RSA 382-A:2-316) provides that a merchant who sells a consumer good may not disclaim the warranty of merchantability or fitness unless the merchant gives the buyer a "conspicuous writing" disclaiming the warranty. .... yada yada yadaSo now I know that the law is on my side, I will take it to small claims court if necessary but I am hoping that the card company will back me up and save me a little aggravation. I had similar trouble with a computer I bought a few years ago and I got a full refund from the charge card.

[AudioFreak]

So now I know that the law is on my side, I will take it to small claims court if necessary but I am hoping that the card company will back me up and save me a little aggravation. I had similar trouble with a computer I bought a few years ago and I got a full refund from the charge card.

Oh sweet! Well best of luck with that. Sometimes companies can be pretty stingy about reimbursements, but a lot depends on the company and the rep you're speaking with. Hopefully you'll get the same kind of resolution you got with the computer. I might be taking someone to small claims in the near future; not looking forward to that. :(

[technoextreme]

No, I actually covered that when I said:

Other forms of theft occur via mail interception, which can result in an account takeover where the crook changes all your contact information to their own but keeps charging against your account. Other times they can try to obtain the card information from the mail without making their tampering evident. You get the card a day later than expected (not enough to indicate anything is wrong) and by the time you can start spending, someone has already beat you to it.


Nope. They didn't do that. They just stole the letter. The only reason why they got away with it was the credit card company's ineptitude. The location of the charges show that the letter never made it out of the city the letter was sent from.
Stolen is not a moot point because people's cards do still get stolen and often times by crafty means. For example, you go to a restaurant and use your card. The waiter takes your card and, while out of your sight, swaps it with a fake. You go home and go to bed and wake up with a bunch of charges on your card only to realize the one you're carrying in your wallet is either not yours or entirely bogus (but visually similar). Do you really check your card when it comes back to you every single time to make sure it's YOURS?
Actually, this is a moot point also. I've seen bank cards/credit cards that have the pictures on them. Virtually, impossible to do the old switcheroo.

[AudioFreak]

Nope. They didn't do that. They just stole the letter. The only reason why they got away with it was the credit card company's ineptitude. The location of the charges show that the letter never made it out of the city the letter was sent from.

What in the world are you talking about? I'm talking about guidelines for fraud prevention. Your experience with someone stealing from the post office is atypical at best and is hardly a reflection on the card company itself. If that's the case, file a fraud claim and be done with it. And if you don't like how they do business, close the account and get an account with another company.

If it was a credit card, it's the credit account that's been frauded and the company's problem. It's not like the money came out of your bank account directly like a debit card leaving you with a financial loss during the dispute process.

You seem to be interested in debating guidelines for preventing fraud simply on the basis that I didn't explicitly mention your situation. As someone who has dealt with thousands of accounts with suspected fraud and hundreds of instances of actual fraud, I can honestly say that I've never seen anything like what you're describing. You aslo seem to assert that these guidelines wouldn't have helped in this instance however if you check the account online daily you'd see charges within the first day and been able to prevent any further activity.

Actually, this is a moot point also. I've seen bank cards/credit cards that have the pictures on them. Virtually, impossible to do the old switcheroo.

As I stated above, the card you're talking about was stolen. Ergo, not a moot point. I While it's true that the pictures make it virtually impossible to do a switch, the majority of credit and debit cards across the country lack this feature.

[technoextreme]

What in the world are you talking about? I'm talking about guidelines for fraud prevention. Your experience with someone stealing from the post office is atypical at best and is hardly a reflection on the card company itself. If that's the case, file a fraud claim and be done with it. And if you don't like how they do business, close the account and get an account with another company.
Yeah it is. My parents picked up right away that the letter was stolen and the credit card company didn't do anything about it. Generally, telling someone you didn't receive the card means the card was stolen. So yeah it does reflect on the credit card company if they can't pick up on the fact that the letter was stolen until fraudulent charges are made. In general if your going to get defrauded you probably will get defrauded. It's actually getting easier. No longer do you need to even have access to the credit card to get the number.
As I stated above, the card you're talking about was stolen. Ergo, not a moot point. I While it's true that the pictures make it virtually impossible to do a switch, the majority of credit and debit cards across the country lack this feature.
It was a different credit card with no picture. Im just talking about in general. Logically it makes more sense than comparing the signatures on the back of the card which I've had happen to me multiple times.

[AudioFreak]

Yeah, the picture on the card is a FANTASTIC idea and provides a great level of security. I wish every bank would do this with their cards.

It is a lot easier these days to commit fraud because you can do it without ever coming within a thousand miles of your victim. Fraudsters even take the ignorant stance that the bank will cover the loss so it's practically a victimless crime, however the victim does have to go through all kinds of hastle and paperwork to get reimbursed, is possibly strained financially during the dispute process, may have to make reparations to their credit score as well as the fact that companies will write off the losses on their taxes meaning that the rest of the tax-paying population has to pick up that slack.

And indeed, if your parents called the company and told them they didn't get the card, it was negligent of that company to allow it to happen but if that call was documented, there is no legitimate claim for that company to pin the loss on your folks. I wouldn't do business with them anymore if that's how they treat something as serious as fraud. I hope I don't do any business with that company! o.O

[The_Animus]

I'd also like to add that you can get both mail and e-mail from someone claiming to be your credit card company or bank.

I personally have received an e-mail that looked VERY real. My credit card company sends me e-mail notification that my balance is due, or that I made a payment. This scam e-mail looked almost identical in color, images, borders, and the way it was written. It even included anti-scam information within the e-mail saying to call such and such number if I thought my card was stolen or being used by someone else. The number was even the actual credit card customer service number. I don't recall what exactly the e-mail wanted from me. I believe it said they were updating their security information, and they needed information or something.

Fortunetally I'm on the ball and called my credit card company to make sure that it was indeed a scam and not an authentic e-mail from them. They said it was indeed a scam.

So even if you get a letter or e-mail which looks real and contains real numbers and anti-scam information it can still be a scam. I guess they figured if they included real numbers and scam warnings that the person would assume its real and not actually go through with listening to the warning.

[rjh01]

The one difference between a scam e-mail and a real e-mail is that a real e-mail will have some personal information on it. Mostly your name, but could be something else. If it does not have this information on it then it is a scam e-mail.
If in doubt, check the companies home page. With luck they will put up a specific warning.

[Moez]

I have one question

I have an employement contract signed with a BRITISH real estate company

In the beginning, as any company, they request your information, and address beside your bank account number

Just to be in the safe side, i got scammed before, I mention to the HR manager that i will not be providing my bank account number and i explained why. I provided him with my PAYPAL email address and i told him that he, the company could transfer the money there in the time being until we build trust. He agreed

after all the emails back and forth, I was hired with nice chunk of money, which i didn't receive yet, as of any company, you have to work and show what you have got before they pay you!!!!! Anyhow, his last email was really weird which i didn't understand ... he requested my Credit card # but hold on, there is a twist, here is the quote as per the email " Due to the numerous security reasons and to eliminate possible mistakes, I am making request for your Credit Card number. I do not need your expiration and CVV2 code I need only your number."

Ok, i know for sure that he can't do anything with the Credit card number only but maybe i am living under a rock and i don't know what is the real new scams now!!!!! so i need help .... does that sound legit or real? and can anyone pull out "steal" money from the credit card by only having the credit card number?????

Here is more, "Purpose of the deposit: the client will make transfer to your card, as payment for reservation of object of our base." HE EXPLAINED

Regards

[Just thinking]

"Some people, believe it or not, do not memorize their PIN. People actually do write their PIN on the back of their card."

Well, that literally seems to invite theft. At this point you might as well just leave your money on the sidewalk. You can't recall your PIN? --- I guess you deserve to lose your cash. No, not really ... but man, that's sad. Especially since that's what in some ways makes the debit card much safer than a credit card.

Oh ... I also helped a friend stop payment on an e-Bay transaction he believed was legit. He placed a bid on a car and consequently lost the auction ... he then received an e-mail saying that the original winner reneged, making him now the top bidder. I asked him to e-mail the "losing bidder" to see if this was indeed true ... it was not. My friend was asked to send a deposit for the car ... which if I didn't get him to confirm things, he was about to do. The car was a Porsche ... the deposit, $20,000.

How did he thank me?

"Thanks a lot!"

[rjh01]

PINS, passwords. We need so many different ones it is hard to keep track of them all. I have
4 different passwords at work.
2 PINS for my bank cards to get money
2 passwords to connect to the internet to see the balance
?? different passwords to get on various forums, and other places on the internet.

The list is not complete.

[Agatha]

I have one question

I have an employement contract signed with a BRITISH real estate company

In the beginning, as any company, they request your information, and address beside your bank account number

Just to be in the safe side, i got scammed before, I mention to the HR manager that i will not be providing my bank account number and i explained why. I provided him with my PAYPAL email address and i told him that he, the company could transfer the money there in the time being until we build trust. He agreed

after all the emails back and forth, I was hired with nice chunk of money, which i didn't receive yet, as of any company, you have to work and show what you have got before they pay you!!!!! Anyhow, his last email was really weird which i didn't understand ... he requested my Credit card # but hold on, there is a twist, here is the quote as per the email " Due to the numerous security reasons and to eliminate possible mistakes, I am making request for your Credit Card number. I do not need your expiration and CVV2 code I need only your number."

Ok, i know for sure that he can't do anything with the Credit card number only but maybe i am living under a rock and i don't know what is the real new scams now!!!!! so i need help .... does that sound legit or real? and can anyone pull out "steal" money from the credit card by only having the credit card number?????

Here is more, "Purpose of the deposit: the client will make transfer to your card, as payment for reservation of object of our base." HE EXPLAINED

Regards


Not much of that sounds legitimate, and the bolded part certainly does not. Are you in the UK? Is the company for which you will be working in the UK? It seems most unlikely that a legitimate company would pay your salary to your paypal address.

Why are clients [of the company] depositing monies to your credit card?

This sounds like a money laundering or advanced fee fraud to me, and on the information you have provided, I think you would be well advised to steer clear.

Could you provide some more information about the job and the company?

[Toke]

Right after I got my current job and had arrived on the ship, the captain wanted my bank account number.
Fair enough, I don´t mind telling the company* where to put my pay.

How can a credit card number help the payroll department to pay you?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I have one question

I have an employement contract signed with a BRITISH real estate company

In the beginning, as any company, they request your information, and address beside your bank account number

Just to be in the safe side, i got scammed before, I mention to the HR manager that i will not be providing my bank account number and i explained why. I provided him with my PAYPAL email address and i told him that he, the company could transfer the money there in the time being until we build trust. He agreed

after all the emails back and forth, I was hired with nice chunk of money, which i didn't receive yet, as of any company, you have to work and show what you have got before they pay you!!!!! Anyhow, his last email was really weird which i didn't understand ... he requested my Credit card # but hold on, there is a twist, here is the quote as per the email " Due to the numerous security reasons and to eliminate possible mistakes, I am making request for your Credit Card number. I do not need your expiration and CVV2 code I need only your number."

Ok, i know for sure that he can't do anything with the Credit card number only but maybe i am living under a rock and i don't know what is the real new scams now!!!!! so i need help .... does that sound legit or real? and can anyone pull out "steal" money from the credit card by only having the credit card number?????

Here is more, "Purpose of the deposit: the client will make transfer to your card, as payment for reservation of object of our base." HE EXPLAINED

Regards


You've been scammed again.

[Just thinking]

PINS, passwords. We need so many different ones it is hard to keep track of them all. I have
4 different passwords at work.
2 PINS for my bank cards to get money
2 passwords to connect to the internet to see the balance
?? different passwords to get on various forums, and other places on the internet.

The list is not complete.

OK then, instead of the actual coded number, write down a reminder --- say last 4 numbers of mom's phone number (but you type them in reverse). Or the initials of grandma (again, in reverse or alphabetical order). There are safe ways to do this.

[sailingsoul]

Here is what I live by. Having a Debit card is INSANE. When money comes out, it's gone, legit or not. Your total balance can be gone before you have a clew there is fraudulent activity. It will not be back until it gets resolved. Better hope you don't need that money to live, you might be waiting a long time. Credit cards have allot of protection by law, debit cards don't. Just one is, your total loss exposure due to fraud is limited to $50, by fed' law. No one (as in "NO ONE") should have a "debit card", ever for any reason. Secured credit cards are different and should only be had until a real credit card can replace it.
With a credit card when there is fraud you get the bill, have a heart attack and put it in dispute. Your money is still in you bank account. BIG difference. I have never heard a GOOD reason to have one. I'm still waiting to hear one. SS

[Toke]

Most I know have a dankort/visa wich connects to your bank account and needs a pin code in the shops. (Debitcard)

It is possible to get alot of credit on it without charges/fees, but the interest rate will be very different for + and -.

My only problems was in Hong Kong, where a ATM ate my card without explanation, twice in the same year.

[sailingsoul]

Most I know have a dankort/visa wich connects to your bank account and needs a pin code in the shops. (Debitcard)

My only problems was in Hong Kong, where a ATM ate my card without explanation, twice in the same year.

I would never connect my credit card with any account or use any cash machine (atm) not located at a bank building. That means no private atm's anywhere, find a bank. Banks are everywhere and safer if it eats your card. Call the card company immediately if a card is ever eaten. Watch this on ATM fraud at youtube.com/watch?v=6Zq1oIq87pY
There are other videos, look.
And to Moez, Why can't you take the time, go to your (any) bank and open another account (checking) that you'll use for your employer to put money in and you take it out (save 1$ to keep it open)and move the money to a account that they have no access. As in, write a check and deposit it where ever. Keep the balance low, taking the money out as soon as it gets in. They'll never have access to any other money than what they put in and once you take it out they can't get it. cheers SS

[GodMark2]

We just received a list of "The most ignored rules" from VISA/MC, and found out that, according to the contract between VISA and the merchant, merchants are specifically prohibited from requiring another form of ID. Yet they will then hold the merchant responsible for fraudulent transactions. Prohibiting the merchant from verifying the identity of the person claiming to be the card owner (note, they never use the term 'card owner', preferring to use the term 'cardholder') is practically asking people to steal cards. How can they then lay the monetary risk at the feet of the merchant (who is prohibited from taking steps to minimize that risk)?

[WildCat]

We just received a list of "The most ignored rules" from VISA/MC,
Where is this list from?

[balrog666]

We just received a list of "The most ignored rules" from VISA/MC, and found out that, according to the contract between VISA and the merchant, merchants are specifically prohibited from requiring another form of ID. Yet they will then hold the merchant responsible for fraudulent transactions. Prohibiting the merchant from verifying the identity of the person claiming to be the card owner (note, they never use the term 'card owner', preferring to use the term 'cardholder') is practically asking people to steal cards. How can they then lay the monetary risk at the feet of the merchant (who is prohibited from taking steps to minimize that risk)?


I'm afraid that's nonsense. Second forms of ID are a widespread requirement.

And many stores copy the second ID for use in later marketing.

Prevent it if you can.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

We just received a list of "The most ignored rules" from VISA/MC, and found out that, according to the contract between VISA and the merchant, merchants are specifically prohibited from requiring another form of ID.

Merchants are also prohibited from enforcing a minimum purchase before they will accept a credit card. ***



***I will say this was correct as of about 15 years ago. I don't know if that is still true, but I suspect it is.

[Moez]

Not much of that sounds legitimate, and the bolded part certainly does not. Are you in the UK? Is the company for which you will be working in the UK? It seems most unlikely that a legitimate company would pay your salary to your paypal address.

Why are clients [of the company] depositing monies to your credit card?

This sounds like a money laundering or advanced fee fraud to me, and on the information you have provided, I think you would be well advised to steer clear.

Could you provide some more information about the job and the company?

I am not in the UK, am In canada and i did a search for the company's name and apparently, it doesn't exist in the Caribbean or the UK.
"Why are clients [of the company] depositing monies to your credit card?" you guessed money laundering and i think you're correct:jaw-dropp

I already sent my apologies to the HR person who made the hiring and i mentioned that it sounded like a fraud, that is why i am not proceeding with this job and thanked him kindly so i am steering clear

The company is called "BAHAMAS AGENTS LIMITED" he had an ad in the career-builder website so i emailed in my resume, as everyone else. the main purpose of the job is "will be providing high quality customer service and increasing sales of the real estate for our clients in Canada and USA, which includes promotion, consulting and performing transactions"
the company offered a salary + commission and bonuses, beside the online training

Anyway, that is all the info i have on this company, thanks for everyone who shared his opinion here and thanks for the advise

Cheers

[GodMark2]

Where is this list from?

It was a flyer published by VISA. That flyer was distributed to my company by our acquiring agent, Bank of America, with their usual monthly correspondence.

I'm afraid that's nonsense. Second forms of ID are a widespread requirement.

And many stores copy the second ID for use in later marketing.

Prevent it if you can.

Many merchants do require second forms of ID (or impose minimum transaction values or add surcharges, which were the other items on the list). That would probably be why this was on the list of "Most common card processing rule violations".

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Surely if the merchant obtains authorization from the credit card supplier, he will be paid. If the card has been fraudulently obtained, the credit card company will swallow the loss.

The credit card companies do not want their card holders "inconvenienced" by being asked for additional id. They are prepared to take the hit for it.

[marting]

I had a duel use credit/atm card counterfeited. The card was apparently scanned, most likely in a retaurant I frequented. The scanned codes were used to create a striped credit card and matching ID then used in Australia to purchase $6,000 worth of gold and jewelry within 2 hours at a major mall. I had used the card about 5 hours earlier to buy gas in LA. Apparently, transaction timing isn't checked as a fraud flag. I happened to catch it by pure luck within a few hours since I was checking my account to see if a deposit had posted and saw the strange transactions listed. I immediately called the bank and reported the fraud. They were quite helpful, canceled and re-issued the card, and refunded the charges. However, they showed no interest in notifying the police of merchants who had made the sales. It was highly likely they would recall the purchasers and possibly have them on tape as it was within just a few hours of the fraud. It was obviously a major operation since ID and embossed/mag striped cards had to be created.

[GodMark2]

Surely if the merchant obtains authorization from the credit card supplier, he will be paid. If the card has been fraudulently obtained, the credit card company will swallow the loss.

The credit card companies do not want their card holders "inconvenienced" by being asked for additional id. They are prepared to take the hit for it.

You'd think that would be the case, wouldn't you. But it's not. Yep, the same contract that won't allow VISA's cardholders to be inconvenienced also holds the merchant responsible for detecting fraudulent transaction. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Require ID and be fined by VISA, don't check and eat any loss. A perfect contract, from VISA's point of view. Whether or not these terms are conscionable has never been decided in a court, nor whether this set of policies fails under 'latches' (not taking steps to prevent something likely to happen can be viewed as permitting it).

The little 'out' is that they only prohibit you from REQUIRING ID. But you are allowed to ASK for ID. If they don't match, you have the authority to believe the transaction is fraudulent, and not process it. However, if the person refuses to provide alternate ID, that is specifically NOT considered sufficient reason to believe the transaction is fraudulent, and you are required to process the transaction anyway.

[Jeff Corey]

This was tried on me yesterday.
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2007/02/sms.shtm
"According to a complaint filed by the FTC, the defendants have sold credit card interest rate reduction services since December 2005, claiming affiliation with consumers’ credit card companies. The complaint alleges that the defendants promise to effect credit card rates between 4.75 percent and 9 percent, thus saving consumers at least $2,500, and that if consumers do not save that amount their money will be refunded."

[Toke]

Amazing.
"For only a small fee we will convince your creditcard company, wich we are a part of?, that they should charge you less"

So, you got suspicius and chekked up on it?

[Jeff Corey]

No, I hung up, after asking a few questions, like "What credit card company are you calling from?" and getting, "Oh, we represent them all, Visa, Master Card..."
I didn't check on them until today.

[sailingsoul]

Getting 0% interest rate is easy. One option for reducing card rates over looked by some, is having a zero balance. My personnel favorite. SS

[Richard Masters]

[...]It's been my experience as a fraud analyst that having a debit or credit card is like being automatically enrolled in a lottery. I've seen some intense fraud happen to even the most careful of consumers. Don't take this as "be paranoid about your card" but rather suggestions and good habits to help prevent being victimized and stop fraud at the first sign.

What do you do when your bank is responsible for the fraud?

[KoihimeNakamura]

I should note that if you refuse ID at my store when I ask for it when you use a credit card? Store policy is I go "I'ms orry, you didn't ID yourself, I cannot process this transaction."

[drkitten]

I should note that if you refuse ID at my store when I ask for it when you use a credit card? Store policy is I go "I'ms orry, you didn't ID yourself, I cannot process this transaction."

I wonder what would happen if VISA corp learned of that little piece of policy.

I mean, you can set store policy to be anything you like -- "I'm sorry, you are of inferior race, I cannot process this transaction." But that doesn't mean that you won't get sued (and lose).