Legal Substitutes for Illegal Drugs

[Puppycow]

I learned something new reading this article (http://www.slate.com/id/2175730/entry/2175732/). I experimented with drugs in my youth, but don’t take any anymore. So learning about this new way to sidestep the drug laws was a bit of a revelation to me. I mean I’d heard of people abusing prescription meds, but it never occurred to me that some of these drugs are as powerful as their illegal counterparts.

For example, cocaine is illegal, but according to this article Ritalin is a pretty good substitute, with the added benefit of no worries about going to jail. If, that is, you can convince a sympathetic doctor that you have ADHD.

To me, this is further evidence that the war on drugs is hypocritical as well as misguided. Again, I am not suggesting that drug abuse is harmless, just that there is probably a better way to deal with it than our current approach.

[Lonewulf]

I took Ritalin in pill form as a kid. Are you really suggesting that Ritalin is equivalent in strength and effect of Cocaine, or just that it would make some sort of substitute?

Ritalin is also a prescribed drug, and if it's as powerful as cocaine, then it's definitely extremely diluted, as well as being non-addictive.

[skeptifem]

ritalin is not that powerful. adderall and some other add medications are very powerful.

im on ritalin and i have to go every month to get it prescribed and have a written prescription every single time, there are laws about it because of the potential for abuse. its a pain. a lot more work than obtaining illegal drugs.

[Puppycow]

I took Ritalin in pill form as a kid. Are you really suggesting that Ritalin is equivalent in strength and effect of Cocaine, or just that it would make some sort of substitute?

Ritalin is also a prescribed drug, and if it's as powerful as cocaine, then it's definitely extremely diluted, as well as being non-addictive.

I've never used it so I wouldn't know (tried coke a couple times a long time ago, and I don't really remember the high so much as the distinctive taste and feeling). I'm going on the article. Do you think the article is wrong? Maybe it's only if you inject it intravenously, which I have never done with any drug.

Here are some descriptions (http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Pharms_Methylphenidate.shtml). The first one is a descrition of the high when injecting it and a comparison with cocaine.

[ponderingturtle]

ritalin is not that powerful. adderall and some other add medications are very powerful.

im on ritalin and i have to go every month to get it prescribed and have a written prescription every single time, there are laws about it because of the potential for abuse. its a pain. a lot more work than obtaining illegal drugs.

Well how much of that is dosage though? Would you OD on Ritalin before you got real strong effects?

[Ryokan]

Remember that Ritalin works differently for people with ADHD than it does with those who have it. People with ADHD are calmed by it, while others get an energy kick.

[ponderingturtle]

Remember that Ritalin works differently for people with ADHD than it does with those who have it. People with ADHD are calmed by it, while others get an energy kick.

I have heard this claimed and disputed on these boards many times. I am not at all sure that this is a well supportable claim.

[Lonewulf]

I don't particularly see why it would affect ADHD people (like I was(am?)) differently than it would affect "normal" people.

[Ryokan]

I have heard this claimed and disputed on these boards many times. I am not at all sure that this is a well supportable claim.

I haven't seen it disputed, and it does fit my experience. I've worked with children with with ADHD, and it sure calms them down.

I don't particularly see why it would affect ADHD people (like I was(am?)) differently than it would affect "normal" people.

Well, I'm not an MD, but it sure seems to work that way. Unless all those ADHD'ers who take Ritalin are faking it?

[ponderingturtle]

I haven't seen it disputed, and it does fit my experience. I've worked with children with with ADHD, and it sure calms them down.

The thing is does it calm down the behaviors of those acting out in general or not. It certainly calms down those with ADD, but it might well calm those with out it as well.

That is the issue of dispute, yes this might be counter intuitive for a stimulant but so what?

[Ryokan]

The thing is does it calm down the behaviors of those acting out in general or not. It certainly calms down those with ADD, but it might well calm those with out it as well.

That is the issue of dispute, yes this might be counter intuitive for a stimulant but so what?

Sounds strange that something like this hasn't been blind-tested already?

Hey, we should do it! Who here can get their hands on some Ritalin? I volunteer for the project ;)

[sinclairmcevoy]

I don't particularly see why it would affect ADHD people (like I was(am?)) differently than it would affect "normal" people.I read an article on ritalin a while ago, can't remember where, but it stated that a part of the brain in hyperactive children is actually running at a slower speed than "normal kids". By getting this area to speed up, it slows them down allowing them to focus. I think. Googling it would probably be a better answer than I can provide. :blush:

[ponderingturtle]

Sounds strange that something like this hasn't been blind-tested already?

Hey, we should do it! Who here can get their hands on some Ritalin? I volunteer for the project ;)

Well I started a thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=87723) about it. I was not able to get a strong definitive yes or no.

The point is that Ritalin does do what it is intended to do, and that is help people with ADD focus and behave. That is the test, not does it do this in all people, that is not what is general tested.

So claiming the effect of Ritalin is diagnostic does not seem to be well supported by evidence.

[ponderingturtle]

I read an article on ritalin a while ago, can't remember where, but it stated that a part of the brain in hyperactive children is actually running at a slower speed than "normal kids". By getting this area to speed up, it slows them down allowing them to focus. I think. Googling it would probably be a better answer than I can provide. :blush:

But the point is that it is not well esablished that it produces a different effect in ADD kids as opposed to neurotypical children.

[JFrankA]

Personally, I haven't done either drug, but I am facinated by the illegal drug culture.

My guess, and it's only a guess, is that the "calming effect" is the "all is peaceful effect" that both coke and ritallin give the user.

As I understand perscription drugs, a lot of the pill is filler. Basically it's all items to make the drug "time released" into the body. Therefore, Ritallin could not only be a smaller dose, but let into the blood stream in a longer amount of time. (Think of nursing a beer or smashing down two or three Long Island Ice Teas - which I've done both... :-) )

I do know that people crush the pills to filter out the filler and get straight to the drug itself, using more than one pill to get the high.

Those two things in itself might make the difference.

...again, I'm guessing from what I've read. No real life experience here. :-)

[ponderingturtle]

Personally, I haven't done either drug, but I am facinated by the illegal drug culture.

My guess, and it's only a guess, is that the "calming effect" is the "all is peaceful effect" that both coke and ritallin give the user.

As I understand perscription drugs, a lot of the pill is filler. Basically it's all items to make the drug "time released" into the body. Therefore, Ritallin could not only be a smaller dose, but let into the blood stream in a longer amount of time. (Think of nursing a beer or smashing down two or three Long Island Ice Teas - which I've done both... :-) )

I do know that people crush the pills to filter out the filler and get straight to the drug itself, using more than one pill to get the high.

Those two things in itself might make the difference.

...again, I'm guessing from what I've read. No real life experience here. :-)

Note injecting crushed pills is a very bad idea. Not all of the components of pills is soluble and so you get lots of internal dammage in your lungs by doing that.

[JFrankA]

Note injecting crushed pills is a very bad idea. Not all of the components of pills is soluble and so you get lots of internal dammage in your lungs by doing that.


Oh, agreed, completely. Sorry, I should've said that. And to clear things up all I meant to say was that drug addicts and pushers do that to get to the drug itself.

I, and I'm sure Randi and company do NOT recommend doing that. :-)

[Dogdoctor]

I have heard that many illegal drug users have problems such as ADHD and take drugs to self medicate. This makes it difficult for them to quit. In my limited experience it seems that this may be true some of the time as I have known a few such individuals.

[Lonewulf]

Well, I'm not an MD, but it sure seems to work that way. Unless all those ADHD'ers who take Ritalin are faking it?
Maybe you should actually read what I posted. I didn't question whether or not it would calm down people that have ADHD. I questioned whether or not it would affect us ADHD types differently than a "normal" person.

[skeptifem]

Maybe you should actually read what I posted. I didn't question whether or not it would calm down people that have ADHD. I questioned whether or not it would affect us ADHD types differently than a "normal" person.


i think that people with hyperactivity problems do not have the speedy type side effects but people with just attention problems still have em.

i could ask about it next time i go to get my script written.

[billydkid]

I never was a big drug user - though I did go through a drinking, pot smoking phase and I used cocaine and some other things a couple of times. None of it amounted to much. The only thing I ever ingested that scared me and put me through hell to quit it was Effexor - the depression drug. I know I have gotten a lot of flack for it in the past, but I believe that many of the anti-depressants are far more dangerous than many recreational drugs. An certainly it is very easy to damage yourself with tylenol and other OTC stuff.

[technoextreme]

I learned something new reading this article. I experimented with drugs in my youth, but don’t take any anymore. So learning about this new way to sidestep the drug laws was a bit of a revelation to me. I mean I’d heard of people abusing prescription meds, but it never occurred to me that some of these drugs are as powerful as their illegal counterparts.

For example, cocaine is illegal, but according to this article Ritalin is a pretty good substitute, with the added benefit of no worries about going to jail. If, that is, you can convince a sympathetic doctor that you have ADHD.

Im fairly certain that this is also illegal.

Here are some descriptions. The first one is a descrition of the high when injecting it and a comparison with cocaine.
This defiantly is illegal if you get caught.