Dear God, I'm outta here...

[Roadtoad]

Well, we've gone and done it. We're out of the church.

And, no. I don't think I'll be back.

[Voob]

Congratulations.

[triadboy]

Congratulations!

You and Ruby must belong to the same church.

[Gulliamo]

Heavens no, Hell ya! -Bloodhound Gang

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by triadboy
Congratulations!

You and Ruby must belong to the same church.

No, actually, this church was actually pretty sane. I just got to the point where I had more questions than answers, and I can't hew to the party line anymore. Either give me straight answers, the source for your answers, and some solid understanding why you choose to believe what you do, or don't waste my time.

I'm tired of the wreckage in my own life. I'm either going to grow up, (at 43, I'm probably overdue), or continue to limp along like I have. Can't do that anymore.

[Lord Kenneth]

Now you just gotta admit that religion is bunk, it is not based on fact, it has no holding on rational thought.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Roadtoad
Well, we've gone and done it. We're out of the church.

And, no. I don't think I'll be back.
Very brave of you, RT. It is hard to put behind something that has been such an important part of your life and even harder to say goodbye to some friends who you like, but who won't understand why you did this. Your good friends will stick by you though.

Be careful not to fall into the trap of "preaching" the gospel of agnosticism. If people ask, tell them, but don't give your testimonial. Everyone knows that vocal ex-smokers and ex-drinkers can be much more obnoxious than those who never smoked/drank. Don't be a vocal ex-Christian.

Good luck, and tell us how it goes.

[Phil]

Originally posted by Roadtoad
Well, we've gone and done it. We're out of the church.

And, no. I don't think I'll be back.
Tough choice that I'm sure you made after much contemplation.

Having said that, wanna go surfing with me next Sunday?

[Peach Jr.]

Originally posted by Roadtoad
Well, we've gone and done it. We're out of the church.

And, no. I don't think I'll be back.

No kidding? Congratulations. There are many more pleasant ways to spend your Sundays. The Mr. and I have made a science of finding them. Of course, with the baby, some of them can be a bit difficult...:D

Seriously, best of luck with reasoning things out for yourself. Maybe you'll be an atheist, maybe not. But at least you'll be making up your *own* mind.

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Roadtoad


No, actually, this church was actually pretty sane. I just got to the point where I had more questions than answers, and I can't hew to the party line anymore. Either give me straight answers, the source for your answers, and some solid understanding why you choose to believe what you do, or don't waste my time.

I'm tired of the wreckage in my own life. I'm either going to grow up, (at 43, I'm probably overdue), or continue to limp along like I have. Can't do that anymore.

I know that must have been hard.....but I have to say YAY!!!!!

There's nothing worse than sitting in a church with everything not making sense. We used to come away from our last church services being critical and disappointed over every little thing. It was hard to keep going.....but we did until our Pastor went goofy on us...as you might remember!!

I can't believe how much my belief system has changed this past year. :eek:

Anyhow, I do hope you don't have to limp along anymore. I feel so much better now....as compared to when I was sitting in a church listening to stuff that did not answer my questions.

Hugs!! :rub:

[UnrepentantSinner]

Don't forget (and I'm going to extend Tricky's analogy a bit) that much like the nicotine patch, if you really get a craving for some church, you can always take a dose or two of a UU congregation and get the fellowship without the doctrine.

[Peter Jenkins]

I'm always slightly uneasy about congratulating someone on something which, for them, must have been a disturbing experience. It's a bit like congratulating someone on their divorce.

Having said that, Roadtoad, I have been there, and I know what it's like, coming to terms with difficult ideas, which other people shrug off without giving a moments thought.

I hope the experience is good for you.
Peter

[Yahzi]

I told you it was inevitable. Once you surrender the special exemption religion demands, invariably you wind up having to surrender religion.

I hope you can find a social network to replace your old one. Church is like dope: it gives complete strangers something to identify each other as friends. However, I don't think dope is a good substitute.

We atheists really ought to find a way to provide that social bonding. It would be cool knowing you could flash the secret symbol, and find trustworthy people when you went to new places. Maybe we should take over the Masons...

Anyway, kudos (and condolences) on the big step. How do your wife and kids feel about it?

[Phil]

Originally posted by Yahzi
. . . I hope you can find a social network to replace your old one. Church is like dope: it gives complete strangers something to identify each other as friends. However, I don't think dope is a good substitute.

We atheists really ought to find a way to provide that social bonding. It would be cool knowing you could flash the secret symbol, and find trustworthy people when you went to new places. Maybe we should take over the Masons. . .

RT need not look far. He's been part of the biggest social network all along.

Once one learns that life is not about placating an unseen deity, but about enjoying, studying, growing within, and sometimes even fearing the human condition, one finds the size of the flock has expanded well beyond the confines of any church walls. His neighbors, the handshakes, the smiles, the laughs, the tears, the births and deaths, the good times and the bad are more numerous than he can count in a lifetime. It's a catharsis like none, save the trauma of first breath, and I for one quake and marvel in the face of it all. It is a beautiful thing.

Welcome to the church of humanity, RT.

[arcticpenguin]

Roadtoad,
I suppose it would be perverse to wish you Godspeed on your journey of understanding...
:)

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by Yahzi
I told you it was inevitable. Once you surrender the special exemption religion demands, invariably you wind up having to surrender religion.

I hope you can find a social network to replace your old one. Church is like dope: it gives complete strangers something to identify each other as friends. However, I don't think dope is a good substitute.

We atheists really ought to find a way to provide that social bonding. It would be cool knowing you could flash the secret symbol, and find trustworthy people when you went to new places. Maybe we should take over the Masons...

Anyway, kudos (and condolences) on the big step. How do your wife and kids feel about it?

Upset, but dealing with it. Jon, my older son, is very religious, though not in a weird way like folks like Billiefan. Pretty down to earth kid, actually, and he reads over my shoulder a lot here. Matt's pretty much given up completely.

Peggy is the one I worry about. She grew up in church on Sunday, and this is going to be tough. But, she's a strong woman. Pretty easy on lots of stuff. She'll stick to reading her Bible on her own, I'm sure.

I think that's what really got to me, Yahzi. How do you exempt anything? First of all, it makes no sense in TLOP, so how would you do it in a spiritual realm, either? If you have any ideas about logic, you can't. It don't work. (Or as we say around the shop, "That dog don't roll.")

Another point: I got sick of my wife and kids being treated like sh**. Look, I'm a big, chubby guy. My wife, gorgeous girl that she is, is kind of a fluffy kind of girl. (You know, "Ewe's not fat, ewe's fluffy.") We've never had much, just one another. Couldn't tithe: we had to eat. I work weird hours; I drive a truck. I can't be there every time the doors are open.

After a while, you get the idea that you're never going to be one of the "ins." That's when you start asking questions: How true is this? How do you know?

I never got the answer. Still haven't. Maybe if someone would have leveled with me, and treated me like an adult in the church, we might still be there. The didn't; you start asking hard questions, and suddenly, you're back to being some idiot kid, no matter what your age.

Can't play that game no more. That dog don't roll.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Roadtoad
Well, we've gone and done it. We're out of the church.

And, no. I don't think I'll be back.
Dear Roadtoad,

Jesus, myself, and the rest of the gang are upset...

Think of the kittens, the kittens want you back in church.

http://chocolate.ratemykitten.com/datastore/c5/66/b/c566a7908e904900399d87ddec4cda32.jpg

Please think of the kittens...

Oh well, cant save 'em all. I'll just let you on the big cosmic secret: The Matrix is really inside the Matrix.

With that being said, have a good day :).

Your pal,
Y-Almighty.

[triadboy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Roadtoad
She'll stick to reading her Bible on her own, I'm sure.

Maybe something startling to read will help her understand your dilemma.

These passages were 'discovered' by a minister preparing his sermon. He had his bible open to 2 Kings 19 and was flipping around and landed on Isaiah 37. He flipped back and forth and then realized he was reading the exact same words. No one could explain it to him and this led to an epiphany - the bible was edited by man.


2Ki 19:1 And it came to pass, when king Hezekiah heard [it], that he rent his clothes, and covered himself with sackcloth, and went into the house of the LORD.

2Ki 19:2 And he sent Eliakim, which [was] over the household, and Shebna the scribe, and the elders of the priests, covered with sackcloth, to Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz.

2Ki 19:3 And they said unto him, Thus saith Hezekiah, This day [is] a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and blasphemy: for the children are come to the birth, and [there is] not strength to bring forth.

2Ki 19:4 It may be the LORD thy God will hear all the words of Rabshakeh, whom the king of Assyria his master hath sent to reproach the living God; and will reprove the words which the LORD thy God hath heard: wherefore lift up [thy] prayer for the remnant that are left.

2Ki 19:5 So the servants of king Hezekiah came to Isaiah.

2Ki 19:6 And Isaiah said unto them, Thus shall ye say to your master, Thus saith the LORD, Be not afraid of the words which thou hast heard, with which the servants of the king of Assyria have blasphemed me.

2Ki 19:7 Behold, I will send a blast upon him, and he shall hear a rumour, and shall return to his own land; and I will cause him to fall by the sword in his own land.

etc.


Isa 37:1 And it came to pass, when king Hezekiah heard [it], that he rent his clothes, and covered himself with sackcloth, and went into the house of the LORD.

Isa 37:2 And he sent Eliakim, who [was] over the household, and Shebna the scribe, and the elders of the priests covered with sackcloth, unto Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz.

Isa 37:3 And they said unto him, Thus saith Hezekiah, This day [is] a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and of blasphemy: for the children are come to the birth, and [there is] not strength to bring forth.

Isa 37:4 It may be the LORD thy God will hear the words of Rabshakeh, whom the king of Assyria his master hath sent to reproach the living God, and will reprove the words which the LORD thy God hath heard: wherefore lift up [thy] prayer for the remnant that is left.

Isa 37:5 So the servants of king Hezekiah came to Isaiah.

Isa 37:6 And Isaiah said unto them, Thus shall ye say unto your master, Thus saith the LORD, Be not afraid of the words that thou hast heard, wherewith the servants of the king of Assyria have blasphemed me.

Isa 37:7 Behold, I will send a blast upon him, and he shall hear a rumour, and return to his own land; and I will cause him to fall by the sword in his own land.

etc.


How can this be?! These passages were supposedly written hundreds of years apart.

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by triadboy
How can this be?! These passages were supposedly written hundreds of years apart.

I'm sure someone has an answer.

I don't. And right now, given what's happened, I'm not sure I'm really all that keen on finding out.

[Gulliamo]

Originally posted by Ruby


I can't believe how much my belief system has changed this past year. :eek:

You and me both! Thread (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25969)

[Tony]

Do a line of coke to celebrate.

[triadboy]

Originally posted by Roadtoad
And right now, given what's happened, I'm not sure I'm really all that keen on finding out.

Are you 'down' about your new thinking?

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by triadboy


Are you 'down' about your new thinking?

Yeah. I'll get better, though. Just give me time.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Roadtoad


Yeah. I'll get better, though. Just give me time.

We'll have you signed up as a communist in no time.

[Yahzi]

Originally posted by Roadtoad
How do you exempt anything?
That's the thing that got me from the very first (like, age 12). In my simple-minded way, I just never could understand why the rules suddenly changed when the topic of God came up.

I suspect people who are more socially adept than I don't have that problem. Just like you're supposed to stop talking trash about someone once they come into the room. Social situations are full of exemptions and special cases. But I was never very good at social situations, either.


Another point: I got sick of my wife and kids being treated like sh**.
See, us atheists would love to take the credit, but in the end, it's always the other Christians that do the deconverting for us.

It sounds like the social network you're giving up isn't really worth much, anyway.

Interesting note: do you have any idea how hard it would be to defend atheism if Christians actually acted like decent people?


The didn't; you start asking hard questions, and suddenly, you're back to being some idiot kid, no matter what your age.

LOL!
:D :D :D

[Quinn]

Originally posted by Yahzi

Interesting note: do you have any idea how hard it would be to defend atheism if Christians actually acted like decent people?

Although I believe that there are plenty of Christians who act like decent people, I find it rather telling that this board's two prime examples of such have now jumped the fence.

Quinn

[WildCat]

Football season is a great time to stop being a Christian. No more taping the games while you're at church and avoiding the scores until you watch the tape. Now you can watch them live!

Football can be your new church, I believe that makes George Halas your new God. :D

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by WildCat

Football can be your new church, I believe that makes George Halas your new God. :D
!!! (Vince Lombardi rolls over in his grave)

[calladus]

Originally posted by Roadtoad


Yeah. I'll get better, though. Just give me time. You put a lot of your life, your love, your emotions into this Roadtoad. Don't expect the transition to be painless.

But the results are well worth the pain.

[fishbob]

Kind of like having your tonsils removed - it hurts a lot less when you do it as a kid.

As a kid:
Tonsils out - eat only ice cream for a couple of days - neato
Give up religion - hey there are cartoons on Sunday morning!

As an adult:
Tonsils out - hospitalization, pain pills, missed work, insurance claims.
Give up religion - find a new social group, have to change your whole belief system.

Have some ice cream. Watch some cartoons. Things will work out.

[Roadtoad]

Actually, my bride and I went out for Chinese tonight, and had ice cream afterwards. (Great idea! Glad you mentioned it. Only wish I'd seen your post before we went out.)

We had some time to talk about all this. I thought she'd be more upset about this than she is, but I'm beginning to wonder if maybe she isn't feeling the same way that I am.

Interesting: The only evidence for God are the actions of those who claim to follow Him, and the change which results in their lives.

What do the actions of most Christians tell you?

[Silicon]

Roadtoad,

Hang in there. My thoughts are with you.

My change wasn't as sudden as yours, but it was no less painful.

Those folks should be ashamed they treated you like they did. But remember, they refuse to understand what you're going through. Don't judge them too harshly, they are made of the same stuff all of us are.

Gather the support you need, and hug your kids a little longer.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by Roadtoad
Actually, my bride and I went out for Chinese tonight, and had ice cream afterwards. (Great idea! Glad you mentioned it. Only wish I'd seen your post before we went out.)

I've been to Thai places that serve green tea ice cream and ginger ice cream.

[Loki]

Hey 'Toad,

Not much to add, except that I thought I could see this coming ... your posts (over time) have been drifting this way. Your focus has seemed to be on 'life', and most churches seem to focus on 'after life'. I just hope it keeps working out for you - and I'll gladly shout you a beer sometime...

And I'd just like to thank BillieFan for so clearly emphasising the intent behind his/her faith.