Ruby's Story: Sad, but typical

[Some Friggin Guy]

I've just been doing a bit of back-reading and discovered the history of Ruby's situation with her church, etc. Since there were too many threads for me to decided which one to post this in, we get a new one for it.

First: Ruby, you are doing the right thing. Let me tell you a bit of my history.


I was born and raised Catholic in the Boston area. As has become very public knowledge these days, the issue in Boston wasn't money, or tithing, but pedophillic priests. Those who have come forward with their issues lately are being treated as victims now, but that wasn't always the case.

When I was younger (around 15), one of my friends was abused by a priest. He tried to come forward. The result was not pretty. I remember him being remonstrated by his parents, though for a while, I wasn't sure why. He had told them first, and they, being strong in their faith, didn't believe him. I can only imagine the absolute fear/anger/frustration he was going through.

It wasn't until a night of drinking while my parents were away, that I found out what had actually happened. I was always a bit skeptical of my church, but I never said anything because it was what was expected of me. Once I found out, I couldn't keep dealing with it.

Together, my friend and I began talking to people about what had happened. (Frankly, it took more courage from my friend than I think I would ever be capable of displaying.)

I couldn't tell you how many people we talked to, but no one believed us. My parents caught wind of it and took me to see our priest (the one reponsible).

In what I can only describe as a very ugly conversation, nothing was resolved. It was not long after that my friend and I were actually ex-communicated.

My parents were a bit more forgiving of me than his were of him. He was kicked out of his house. I was allowed to stay in mine, but my parents did everything they could to get me to rejoin the faith. It never happened.

There is a bit of an upside to this story.

With the recent publicity, my friend and I were both vindicated. My parents have forgiven me, which is fine, though I am still bitter. My friends parents are attempting a reconciliation with him. I do not know what he has decided to do about it.

There is one warning I can give you about your situation, Ruby:

I have become very bitter about Christianity. This makes things difficult, since (through no conscious fault of my own) I know live in the buckle of the Bile-belt. I am a practicing Buddhist, which I do nothing to hide from my neighbors, though I do not throw it in their faces, either. I do my best to avoid conflicts with them, since peace of mind is my ultimate goal, however, they seem to feel the need to convert me from the "heathen boo-duh".

So all I can say is be strong in your newfound belief and do not apologize for any of it.

(Note: I am a terrible typist, and just noticed I spelled it "Bile-belt" rather than Bible-belt. I'm leaving it spelled wrong because I believe it is a more accurate description.

[Silicon]

Originally posted by Some Friggin Guy
My parents have forgiven me, which is fine, though I am still bitter.

They've forgiven YOU?

Shouldn't they be seeking your forgiveness? Have they sought it? Perhaps that could be fueling your bitterness.

It sounds like the people you love have treated you and your friend terribly.

Thanks for sharing your story.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Silicon


They've forgiven YOU?

Shouldn't they be seeking your forgiveness? Have they sought it? Perhaps that could be fueling your bitterness.

It sounds like the people you love have treated you and your friend terribly.

Thanks for sharing your story.

:eek:

That was my reaction. What the **** did YOU do that you need to be forgiven for? They should be down on their knees begging YOUR forgiveness. Then they should get down on their knees and apologize for insinuating that you did anything to be forgiven for.

[MRC_Hans]

From the POW of the parents it is so. Obviously SFG is a sufficiently large person to rate a good relationship with his/her parents higher than personal vindication. I salute that.

Hans

[GroundStrength]

Yes, it does speak to the character of SFG not to look at it from his point of view. Sadly, it has been my experience that most church members would look at it the same way the parents did. This is the kind of attitude it what drove me from religion. (Not meaning to disparage SFG's parents at all).

[Sundog]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
From the POW of the parents it is so. Obviously SFG is a sufficiently large person to rate a good relationship with his/her parents higher than personal vindication. I salute that.

Hans

I can't agree. You can't build a good relationship on a faulty foundation. Unless the parents make at least a TOKEN effort to admit they are wrong, the relationship is built on lies and can self-destruct at any moment.

I'm all for making up with the folks, I've done it myself. But it's a two way street. They cannot be allowed to continue seeing him as the prodigal son, this will ensure a dishonest relationship from now on.

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Some Friggin Guy
I've just been doing a bit of back-reading and discovered the history of Ruby's situation with her church, etc. Since there were too many threads for me to decided which one to post this in, we get a new one for it.

First: Ruby, you are doing the right thing.

THANK YOU!!!!!

Let me tell you a bit of my history.
.......There is a bit of an upside to this story.
With the recent publicity, my friend and I were both vindicated. My parents have forgiven me, which is fine, though I am still bitter. My friends parents are attempting a reconciliation with him. I do not know what he has decided to do about it.

I am so sorry for what you and your friend went through. I can only imagine how painful it has been. What is it your parents have forgiven you for? I think I missed something.

There is one warning I can give you about your situation, Ruby:

I have become very bitter about Christianity. This makes things difficult, since (through no conscious fault of my own) I know live in the buckle of the Bile-belt. I am a practicing Buddhist, which I do nothing to hide from my neighbors, though I do not throw it in their faces, either. I do my best to avoid conflicts with them, since peace of mind is my ultimate goal, however, they seem to feel the need to convert me from the "heathen boo-duh".

So all I can say is be strong in your newfound belief and do not apologize for any of it.

(Note: I am a terrible typist, and just noticed I spelled it "Bile-belt" rather than Bible-belt. I'm leaving it spelled wrong because I believe it is a more accurate description. [/B]

I live in the bile-belt too. Sometimes, no, a lot of the time, it really bothers me. I do have some angry and bitter feelings concerning Christianity. I don't know how to resolve them.

I have a Jesus fish on my car and I keep forgetting to take it off. I don't want it on my car anymore. I don't want to be a part of the secret driving fish car society.

I would like to avoid conflicts too. So far, no one really knows that I have turned my back on Christiniaty. I lost most of my friends when I left my former church. The few that I am still in contact with just don't know where I stand on my beliefs.

Here's a hug------------->:rub:

[jj]

Originally posted by Ruby
I have a Jesus fish on my car and I keep forgetting to take it off. I don't want it on my car anymore. I don't want to be a part of the secret driving fish car society.


www.evolvefish.com

My spouse won't let me put it in my car, she's afraid somebody will drive a truck into me or something.

[Marc]

Originally posted by Ruby

I live in the bile-belt too. Sometimes, no, a lot of the time, it really bothers me. I do have some angry and bitter feelings concerning Christianity. I don't know how to resolve them.

I would like to avoid conflicts too. So far, no one really knows that I have turned my back on Christiniaty. I lost most of my friends when I left my former church. The few that I am still in contact with just don't know where I stand on my beliefs.

You sound a lot like someone who has left a cult, or a very insecure, secluded society. Members are not allowed to speak to people on the outside, at least or especially former members. But then if your old friends reject you because you changed your beliefs, were they truly your friends?

Maybe you'll be like Tory, she left Scientology after 30 years. Did she have bitterness? Maybe, but she seemed more happy just to be free. She also found that many of her old friends had left the cult before her, reunions ensued.

Be happy to have joined the land of the sane, and remember you have plenty of friends here. :)

[Some Friggin Guy]

I realize the confusion about the forgiveness of my parents. In my defense, I was running a fever of 101this morning when I posted this, and had been awake all night. Let me clarify.

My parents have apologized for their treatment of me. When I said they had forgiven me, I mean they have forgiven my lack of Christianity. They haven't quite come to accept it, yet, but it seems to be getting closer to that point as time goes on.

What I am bitter about is the fact that they still haven't accepted my Buddhism. (Something I practice as a philosophy, rather than a religion, by the way.)

[justsaygnosis]

Originally posted by Some Friggin Guy
So all I can say is be strong in your newfound belief and do not apologize for any of it.

(Note: I am a terrible typist, and just noticed I spelled it "Bile-belt" rather than Bible-belt. I'm leaving it spelled wrong because I believe it is a more accurate description.

Great post.
From 1973 to 1976 I worked with a highly talented musician who was wasting away in a factory job.
He was living with a woman who was a classmate of mine from grade school. Rhode Island, like Massachussetts has a huge catholic population and I did 12 years in catholic schools.
This guy Frank F was one of the original class action plaintiffs against the former reverend f&*#er Porter. It was the landmark case that started the avalanche.
Aside from the victims who were victimized and traumatized twice, (so much like what occurs in rape trials), I empathize with the trauma of the legitimately devoted clergy and religious who attempt to do what is right, in spite of their limitations as individuals within the politics and corruption of what is not only a religion but also a body politique and a business.
(The catholic church was the first casualty insurers of the 'discoverers')
For all that I can disagree with the blatant superstition and falsity of any religion I can respect the true devotee who seeks to serve and not rule or harm. They get screwed and tatooed with the worst of the bunch by association.
Like Groucho Marx I'm skeptical of any club that seeks me out and proselytizes me for a member: moreso with the ones that tell me I'm defective when I decline their invitation and disciplines.
Rhode Island settled their class action suit earlier this year and Massachusetts just settled theirs.
Money is a token gesture for the victims,it doesn't hurt, but it doesn't finalize the healing either. That is its' own process in its' own time and for many the unfortunate reality is it will never be completed in their lifetime.

[Some Friggin Guy]

I have a Jesus fish on my car and I keep forgetting to take it off. I don't want it on my car anymore. I don't want to be a part of the secret driving fish car society.

I have seen people who have "broken free" paint the fish to look like a rocket, and paint "science" inside it. Just an idea, since removing the fish may cause damage to your paint job. :)

[Yahzi]

Originally posted by Ruby

The few that I am still in contact with just don't know where I stand on my beliefs.
Well, Ruby, that might be because you don't quite know where you stand right now, either... ;)

It's not like deconverting stops the arguments. Now you get to argue whether your agnostic, weak atheist, hard atheist, bright, etc. etc. etc.

The fun never stops! :p

[Hazelip]

Originally posted by jj
www.evolvefish.com

My spouse won't let me put it in my car, she's afraid somebody will drive a truck into me or something. I had one on my truck in Jacksonville, Fl for years when I lived there with no incident. I also had a baby doll head trailer hitch cover.

Don't worry about it.

[Ruby]

Originally posted by jj


www.evolvefish.com

My spouse won't let me put it in my car, she's afraid somebody will drive a truck into me or something.

Yep, I'd be too afraid to replace my Jesus fish with anything remotely Athiest....not even a Unitarian chalice!! That really sucks........but it's just too dangerous to advertise a lack of belief in Christianity in the bible belt!!! :( :( :(

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Marc


You sound a lot like someone who has left a cult, or a very insecure, secluded society. Members are not allowed to speak to people on the outside, at least or especially former members. But then if your old friends reject you because you changed your beliefs, were they truly your friends?

Maybe you'll be like Tory, she left Scientology after 30 years. Did she have bitterness? Maybe, but she seemed more happy just to be free. She also found that many of her old friends had left the cult before her, reunions ensued.

Be happy to have joined the land of the sane, and remember you have plenty of friends here. :)

Well, the problem is, my little girl still attends day school twice a week at my former church. We are nuts, but we could not pull her out. The school is housed in the church, but many children attend who's parents do not go to church. My little girl loves it. Two of the teachers are members of the church....one is not. The two teachers used to be my friends....but it's not like we hung out all the time....only on occasions. They are both very nice and friendly to me when I pick my litle girl up from school...my hubby takes her in the morning.

It took a lot for me to start picking up my little girl. My hubby used to take and pick her up. I could not handle it. Did not even want to see the church. But then I decided that I was NOT going to allow this whole thing to intimidate me, and I made the effort to go in that church to pick her up.

For weeks I have been uptight about running into the Pastor....as he sometimes goes there to hang out in his office. For the first time today, I ran into him. He said something friendly and I just said hi and kept walking. I am still angry and hurt by him and how he betrayed our trust, blasted us from the pulpit, and basically acted like he had some serious problems. How dare he act friendly to me!!!

Our little girl loves the day school and has some special little friends. She has also learned a lot......however, all of a sudden, they have decided to put more emphasis on teaching things from the bible and teaching from a Christian standpoint. I am uptight about that.......but still can't see pulling her out of the school.

It really bugged me today because when I picked her up both teachers made little speeches to me about how wonderful it is that God is going to be featured more in the lessons. In fact, I got paranoid and felt they were running on in an unusual manner....and I thought "what if they know I have turned my back on Christianity and they are trying to preach to me. I don't really know how they could find that out............but it's not impossible.

I suspect that I have forgotten how much as a Christian you run and on about God, Jesus and bible stories with intermittant "Praise God" and "isn't Jesus good" thrown in every few minutes. It just seems alien to me now...to hear such strange speech...that was once my own language.

I'm rambling.......................

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Some Friggin Guy
I realize the confusion about the forgiveness of my parents. In my defense, I was running a fever of 101this morning when I posted this, and had been awake all night. Let me clarify.

Oh dear!

:rub:

I hope you are doing better now!!!:)

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Some Friggin Guy


I have seen people who have "broken free" paint the fish to look like a rocket, and paint "science" inside it. Just an idea, since removing the fish may cause damage to your paint job. :)

I would not dare do that here. I'm afraid I'd have some trouble if I did.:(

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Yahzi

Well, Ruby, that might be because you don't quite know where you stand right now, either... ;)

It's not like deconverting stops the arguments. Now you get to argue whether your agnostic, weak atheist, hard atheist, bright, etc. etc. etc.

The fun never stops! :p

lol...you are right. I really don't know what to call myself...or what I believe/understand. I know what I don't believe anymore.....at least some of the questions are out of the way.

[Some Friggin Guy]

Ruby,

Believe me when I say that I know exactly what you're going through. Chirstians, especially in the Bile belt (I like that spelling mistake) can be very aggressive. It can seem like they are targetting you, and they may very well be.

When I first left the church, I found myself feeling rather paranoid about what the members were thinking and saying about me. That does pass in time. Eventually you will come to realize that it really doesn't matter what they are thinking or saying about you, because they are closed-minded, ignorant fools.

I agree that having Atheist symbols does make your property a target in the Bile belt. It is unfortunate, but it is true. The intolorance of these "true christians" is remarkable.

I don't know what area of the belt you live in, but if you ever need someone to talk to about how tough it is, please feel free to send me a private message or to e-mail me. I'd be more than happy to lend a sympathetic ear.

[ImpyTimpy]

Ruby, I'm curious as to what sort of a school this is. I find it a little bit worrying that more "emphasis" is being placed on God and what not in an environment that should encourage independant thought and critical thinking. I seriously wonder what sort of answers might be given if kids ask questions.. "God made it this way" springs to mind.

Religion and education to me should not mix. Religion is something personal that people should do in their own time. Mixing kids education with religion seems very weird to me. The bible is very outdated in the way it views the current world (let's face it, it was written a very long time ago, things have changed since then) so it's educational value is nill, yet you mention that your kids will be taught more from the bible now.

The question becomes, do your kids recognise that the bible is a collection of now outdated stories, or will they believe what they are told? Will they learn things from the bible or will they be taught something more worthwhile (I do apologise for my obvious bias but in my eyes the bible has very little to offer both in terms of ethics & morals as well as conventional wisdom).

If the latter, I seriously urge you to move your kids to a proper educational environment, one that is not tainted by religion.

Originally posted by Ruby


Well, the problem is, my little girl still attends day school twice a week at my former church. We are nuts, but we could not pull her out. The school is housed in the church, but many children attend who's parents do not go to church. My little girl loves it. Two of the teachers are members of the church....one is not. The two teachers used to be my friends....but it's not like we hung out all the time....only on occasions. They are both very nice and friendly to me when I pick my litle girl up from school...my hubby takes her in the morning.

It took a lot for me to start picking up my little girl. My hubby used to take and pick her up. I could not handle it. Did not even want to see the church. But then I decided that I was NOT going to allow this whole thing to intimidate me, and I made the effort to go in that church to pick her up.

For weeks I have been uptight about running into the Pastor....as he sometimes goes there to hang out in his office. For the first time today, I ran into him. He said something friendly and I just said hi and kept walking. I am still angry and hurt by him and how he betrayed our trust, blasted us from the pulpit, and basically acted like he had some serious problems. How dare he act friendly to me!!!

Our little girl loves the day school and has some special little friends. She has also learned a lot......however, all of a sudden, they have decided to put more emphasis on teaching things from the bible and teaching from a Christian standpoint. I am uptight about that.......but still can't see pulling her out of the school.

It really bugged me today because when I picked her up both teachers made little speeches to me about how wonderful it is that God is going to be featured more in the lessons. In fact, I got paranoid and felt they were running on in an unusual manner....and I thought "what if they know I have turned my back on Christianity and they are trying to preach to me. I don't really know how they could find that out............but it's not impossible.

I suspect that I have forgotten how much as a Christian you run and on about God, Jesus and bible stories with intermittant "Praise God" and "isn't Jesus good" thrown in every few minutes. It just seems alien to me now...to hear such strange speech...that was once my own language.

I'm rambling.......................

[ImpyTimpy]

Do not be surprised. Humans who stick together in groups will rarely see their own faults or mistakes on the outside. The group is there to reinforce their own beliefs and tell themselves what they're doing is right. "Herd mentality" comes to mind...

Originally posted by Some Friggin Guy
Ruby,

--snipped--
I agree that having Atheist symbols does make your property a target in the Bile belt. It is unfortunate, but it is true. The intolorance of these "true christians" is remarkable.

[evildave]

Not to beat a dead horse Ruby, but isn't it about time you looked into other school accomodations?

It has already been noticed by now at your old church that YOU are not attending. How long do you honestly think it will be before the nasty people begin playing politics at and through the kids?

There have already been stories posted here about the traumatic psychological conditioning that some teachers will attempt to use to drive their gods into the kids. "For their own good." The 'more religion' curriculum is a bad sign of things to come.

She's going to lose those friends soon. Either from:

A) You begin taking her to another school sometimes, and eventually stop taking her to the old one. Be sure to ask her her opinion about each.

or

B) When they start preaching to the kids that they should shun the daughter of the heretics, and then they start tormenting her. It's to "save" her, after all.

[Gulliamo]

Originally posted by evildave

How long do you honestly think it will be before the nasty people begin playing politics at and through the kids?

B) When they start preaching to the kids that they should shun the daughter of the heretics, and then they start tormenting her. It's to "save" her, after all.

I hate to admin it but I know from my years in Catholic school that this happens as often as not.

[Zep]

Ruby,

Can I suggest that you don't need to show or hide ANY outward signs of your "no-longer-in-this-faith" decisions. Forget about something as trivial as a fish symbol thing stuck on your car - if you like and it stops any complaints, think of it as symbolic of merely being in a fisherman's club instead! If people get so upset by it being there or not, it only goes to show what an absolutely TINY mindset they have, and hence their thoughts should count little or nothing in your own contemplations.

Alas, I fear it is time for your child to move on from this school. As previous posters have pointed out, she WILL be indoctrinated, either just generally into their belief system. or personally against you as a non-attendee at their church, or both. Perhaps the easiest and most "natural" time would be to finish up happily at the end of one semester (is that the right term?), and start at a new school next semester. This would be how it can be explained to your daughter too.

As with the fish thingy, don't bother to try to explain the removal of your daughter to the church folk. They cannot demand an explanation from you, nor do you really need to supply them one unbidden. Any decisions will be yours and hubby's, and no correspondence need be entered into there, here, or anywhere.

keep on being strong!
Zep

[Quinn]

Ruby, add mine to the list of voices urging you to find another school for your daughter. From your descriptions, the church sounds like a closely-knit group of petty, small-minded people with an agenda, which they know you've rejected. That's really, really not who you want in charge of your daughter's education and well-being. I second the suggestion to start looking for alternatives while she finishes out this term, then transfer her at the end of it.

PS - Did I mention you still rock?

Quinn

[Marc]

Originally posted by Ruby
Our little girl loves the day school and has some special little friends. She has also learned a lot......however, all of a sudden, they have decided to put more emphasis on teaching things from the bible and teaching from a Christian standpoint. I am uptight about that.......but still can't see pulling her out of the school.

Be sure to keep notes, that way you can give an accurate story to reporters when they are held up in a compound with the FBI surrounding. Just kidding, most cults don't end up that way. I see no reason to let your little girl stay in the school, as long as they don't get too prostlytizing. A little deprograming and fact checking when she gets home to counter the worst of it, but you might have to keep a watch on that.



I suspect that I have forgotten how much as a Christian you run and on about God, Jesus and bible stories with intermittant "Praise God" and "isn't Jesus good" thrown in every few minutes. It just seems alien to me now...to hear such strange speech...that was once my own language.
My mother is quite religious, but I rarely hear her say anything like that. Guess it is more of an internal, personal thing. Honestly I can't recall ever hearing people use those expressions in normal conversation. I don't think it is a christian thing, maybe an evangelical/fundamentalist thing.

[luvtinayothers]

Originally posted by Ruby



I have a Jesus fish on my car and I keep forgetting to take it off. I don't want it on my car anymore. I don't want to be a part of the secret driving fish car society.



I remember the day I finally removed the fish from my car. It was like removing
the last remaining symbol of my faith. It was a little weird. Although in my head
I thought that I had removed any last remaining vestiges
of faith, that I had accepted the fact of evolution and rejected the literal truth
of the bible, renounced Christianity, and accepted athiesm - it was
still dificult to actually take the fish off. It sounds a little silly, I know, but
removing it was like finally and officially rejected something that had been my whole life
for twenty plus years. There was no turning back after it was gone.

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Some Friggin Guy
Ruby,

Believe me when I say that I know exactly what you're going through. Chirstians, especially in the Bile belt (I like that spelling mistake) can be very aggressive. It can seem like they are targetting you, and they may very well be.

When I first left the church, I found myself feeling rather paranoid about what the members were thinking and saying about me. That does pass in time. Eventually you will come to realize that it really doesn't matter what they are thinking or saying about you, because they are closed-minded, ignorant fools.

I agree that having Atheist symbols does make your property a target in the Bile belt. It is unfortunate, but it is true. The intolorance of these "true christians" is remarkable.

I don't know what area of the belt you live in, but if you ever need someone to talk to about how tough it is, please feel free to send me a private message or to e-mail me. I'd be more than happy to lend a sympathetic ear.

Thanks!!!:D

[Ruby]

Originally posted by ImpyTimpy
Ruby, I'm curious as to what sort of a school this is. I find it a little bit worrying that more "emphasis" is being placed on God and what not in an environment that should encourage independant thought and critical thinking. I seriously wonder what sort of answers might be given if kids ask questions.. "God made it this way" springs to mind.

Religion and education to me should not mix. Religion is something personal that people should do in their own time. Mixing kids education with religion seems very weird to me. The bible is very outdated in the way it views the current world (let's face it, it was written a very long time ago, things have changed since then) so it's educational value is nill, yet you mention that your kids will be taught more from the bible now.

The question becomes, do your kids recognise that the bible is a collection of now outdated stories, or will they believe what they are told? Will they learn things from the bible or will they be taught something more worthwhile (I do apologise for my obvious bias but in my eyes the bible has very little to offer both in terms of ethics & morals as well as conventional wisdom).

If the latter, I seriously urge you to move your kids to a proper educational environment, one that is not tainted by religion.



I don't know what we will do, but it's hard to move her out of the class. She is only four and does not really comprehend much about God or Jesus that is taught. Next year she starts Kindergarten and won't be subject to being taught bible stuff anymore.

[Ruby]

Originally posted by evildave
Not to beat a dead horse Ruby, but isn't it about time you looked into other school accomodations?

It has already been noticed by now at your old church that YOU are not attending. How long do you honestly think it will be before the nasty people begin playing politics at and through the kids?

I am hopeful they won't do that. The lady who runs the day school is truly sweet. However, I can't be sure.

There have already been stories posted here about the traumatic psychological conditioning that some teachers will attempt to use to drive their gods into the kids. "For their own good." The 'more religion' curriculum is a bad sign of things to come.

She's going to lose those friends soon. Either from:

A) You begin taking her to another school sometimes, and eventually stop taking her to the old one. Be sure to ask her her opinion about each.

or

B) When they start preaching to the kids that they should shun the daughter of the heretics, and then they start tormenting her. It's to "save" her, after all.

I don't believe that would happen at all. They are not that extreme.

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Zep
Ruby,

Can I suggest that you don't need to show or hide ANY outward signs of your "no-longer-in-this-faith" decisions. Forget about something as trivial as a fish symbol thing stuck on your car - if you like and it stops any complaints, think of it as symbolic of merely being in a fisherman's club instead! If people get so upset by it being there or not, it only goes to show what an absolutely TINY mindset they have, and hence their thoughts should count little or nothing in your own contemplations.

Alas, I fear it is time for your child to move on from this school. As previous posters have pointed out, she WILL be indoctrinated, either just generally into their belief system. or personally against you as a non-attendee at their church, or both. Perhaps the easiest and most "natural" time would be to finish up happily at the end of one semester (is that the right term?), and start at a new school next semester. This would be how it can be explained to your daughter too.

As with the fish thingy, don't bother to try to explain the removal of your daughter to the church folk. They cannot demand an explanation from you, nor do you really need to supply them one unbidden. Any decisions will be yours and hubby's, and no correspondence need be entered into there, here, or anywhere.

keep on being strong!
Zep

It will be easy to remove her at the end of this school year as she will start kindergarten next school year!:)

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Quinn
Ruby, add mine to the list of voices urging you to find another school for your daughter. From your descriptions, the church sounds like a closely-knit group of petty, small-minded people with an agenda, which they know you've rejected. That's really, really not who you want in charge of your daughter's education and well-being. I second the suggestion to start looking for alternatives while she finishes out this term, then transfer her at the end of it.

PS - Did I mention you still rock?

Quinn

Thanks!!:D

[Ruby]

Originally posted by luvtinayothers


I remember the day I finally removed the fish from my car. It was like removing
the last remaining symbol of my faith. It was a little weird. Although in my head
I thought that I had removed any last remaining vestiges
of faith, that I had accepted the fact of evolution and rejected the literal truth
of the bible, renounced Christianity, and accepted athiesm - it was
still dificult to actually take the fish off. It sounds a little silly, I know, but
removing it was like finally and officially rejected something that had been my whole life
for twenty plus years. There was no turning back after it was gone.

I know this is how I am going to feel!!

[luvtinayothers]

Good luck! I hope you feel the peace and freedom I finally felt.

[Denise]

Ruby, let me also chime in to agree with the other posters who think you should find your daughter another preschool.

I have read much about what you have written about your former church and have found what you have said very informative on your search for answers. This leads me to ask you why you would leave your daughter in the same environment that you felt compelled to leave? It sounds to me like your Pastor became very controlling over the church- why do you not think he will do the same to the day school? Why do you want your daughter taught the version of Christianity that you have found lacking?

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Ruby
Yep, I'd be too afraid to replace my Jesus fish with anything remotely Athiest....not even a Unitarian chalice!! That really sucks........but it's just too dangerous to advertise a lack of belief in Christianity in the bible belt!!! :( :( :(
Seconded, the moment one evolvefish makes its way through the school of Jesusfish (which is a Pagan symbol by the way, naughty heathens!), everyone gets all iffy.

Did you know I have about 4 or 5 (or 50) churches all within a 5 minute drive from my house? I dont know what the big evil is around this place that fuels the demand for all these Churches... oh well, I admit they certainly do look pretty (they could use a few evolvefishes plastered on the side though :D)...

[ImpyTimpy]

This is exactly why I think it's of utmost importance that you remove her from this learning environment. Last thing you want is for her to be fed things to believe when she's older.

The problem isn't with her being removed out of the class, it's with how you and your partner feel about it. :) She is only four, at that age friends change extremely fast. You'll do much more harm by keeping her in an environment that attempts to start the faith process from a very early age. If she wishes to pursue God or Christianity (or both :p) then she can, but let's leave that option open for her when she's much older. Let's start her learning with some basic things about the world, untainted by religion.

Originally posted by Ruby


I don't know what we will do, but it's hard to move her out of the class. She is only four and does not really comprehend much about God or Jesus that is taught. Next year she starts Kindergarten and won't be subject to being taught bible stuff anymore.