JREF Graduate Poster's "9/11 WTC Challenge Redux"

[david carmichael]

The Challenge: What one piece of evidence(even though the evidence has all been seized & one needs to concentrate on catching them in lies/evasiveness in their answers) would convince you the WTC attack was genuine.


THE REPLY: The screenshots from the Bureau Of Transportation Statistics Web Site showing that all 4 planes took off the morning of 9/11/2001.


Totovader....would you like to provide the people of White Pine County & New Iberia, La. the Web site hyperlink or would you prefer that I provide them?

[david carmichael]

Totovader??? Totovader??

The Challenge: What one piece of evidence(even though the evidence has all been seized & one needs to concentrate on catching them in lies/evasiveness in their answers) would convince you the WTC attack was genuine.


THE REPLY: The screenshots from the Bureau Of Transportation Statistics Web Site showing that all 4 planes took off the morning of 9/11/2001.


Totovader....would you like to provide the people of White Pine County & New Iberia, La. the Web site hyperlink or would you prefer that I provide them?

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

THE REPLY: The screenshots from the Bureau Of Transportation Statistics Web Site showing that all 4 planes took off the morning of 9/11/2001.


You could always ask Seth McFarland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth_McFarland#September_11.2C_2001) whether or not his plane took off. He arrived 10 minutes late (http://www.tv.com/seth-macfarlane/person/57171/biography.html), and wasn't allowed to board while it prepared to take off. That was flight 11.

Of course someone so famous and critical of the Bush administration MUST have been In On It™

[Gravy]

He's spunky, for someone recovering from severe brain trauma and coma.

[funk de fino]

Is this another NPT dude?

[HawksFan]

What the...

[Unalienable]

The Challenge: What one piece of evidence ... would convince you the WTC attack was genuine.

That's a horribly stated challenge. Who on earth actually believes that the attacks were not genuine? The point of disagreement here is who was behind the attacks. Even the biggest nutcase on earth knows that the towers were attacked.

To be a "genuine attack" by your definition, does that mean that Osama bin Laden had to be behind the attack? What if it was orchestrated by a lessor known Islamic terrorist, and Osama was mostly ignorant of it, would it still be a genuine attack?

[david carmichael]

Wowwwww!

To the people of White Pine County,Nevada , Ohio Death Row Inmates & to the good folks in New Iberia, la.(Hi Barb!!!-- I predicted they'd behave this way, did I not?)


So who should provide the hyperlink to the BTS Web Site... me or Totovader?

I mean this must have been inadvertent that you ALLLLL forgot Totovader's challenge.


So ... should I provide the hyperlink OR DO YOU ALL already know that that Web Site is going to sho only 2 of the 4 planes took off on 9/11/2001?... the US Government's own Web site!

[tuc0]

What do "all 4 planes" have to do with the "WTC attack"?

[Bell]

Wowwwww!

To the people of White Pine County,Nevada , Ohio Death Row Inmates & to the good folks in New Iberia, la.(Hi Barb!!!-- I predicted they'd behave this way, did I not?)


So who should provide the hyperlink to the BTS Web Site... me or Totovader?

I mean this must have been inadvertent that you ALLLLL forgot Totovader's challenge.


So ... should I provide the hyperlink OR DO YOU ALL already know that that Web Site is going to sho only 2 of the 4 planes took off on 9/11/2001?... the US Government's own Web site!

You could have posted that link all along, instead of making gibberish posts. What's your problem?

[apathoid]

The Challenge: What one piece of evidence(even though the evidence has all been seized & one needs to concentrate on catching them in lies/evasiveness in their answers) would convince you the WTC attack was genuine.


THE REPLY: The screenshots from the Bureau Of Transportation Statistics Web Site showing that all 4 planes took off the morning of 9/11/2001.


.....

So ... should I provide the hyperlink OR DO YOU ALL already know that that Web Site is going to sho only 2 of the 4 planes took off on 9/11/2001?... the US Government's own Web site



Hey David, you may be onto something. I think it's possible that the AA587 crash is fake too!! It's not in the BTS database either. I think it may be an AA insurance collecting scam. I wonder how many other crashes were faked too!!??11 Let's blow them outta the water with some youtube videos and maybe make some bucks selling DVDs while we are at it. Whaddya say?

[Gravy]

There, there, David (http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/index.php?title=American_Airlines_Flight_11). There, there (http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/index.php?title=United_Airlines_Flight_175).

[david carmichael]

Hey David, you may be onto something. I think it's possible that the AA587 crash is fake too!! It's not in the BTS database either. I think it may be an AA insurance collecting scam. I wonder how many other crashes were faked too!!??11 Let's blow them outta the water with some youtube videos and maybe make some bucks selling DVDs while we are at it. Whaddya say?


Welll... very good... it took this many posts to get one substantive response...

HYPERLINK US TO THE BTS WEB SITE and we can see for ourselves.

I'm interested in the truth-- I don't mind be shown to be wrong...

...but ALSO.... Totovader seems to want to visit every other thread except this one dealing with HIS OWN CHALLENGE...the people who are about to lose their homes might wonder why.


So ...who should provide the hyperlink for these people...ME or Totovader?

[ElMondoHummus]

The Challenge: What one piece of evidence(even though the evidence has all been seized & one needs to concentrate on catching them in lies/evasiveness in their answers) would convince you the WTC attack was genuine.


THE REPLY: The screenshots from the Bureau Of Transportation Statistics Web Site showing that all 4 planes took off the morning of 9/11/2001.


Totovader....would you like to provide the people of White Pine County & New Iberia, La. the Web site hyperlink or would you prefer that I provide them?


Go ahead and post your information here. Let us see what you have.

[Blender Head]

Welll... very good... it took this many posts to get one substantive response...

HYPERLINK US TO THE BTS WEB SITE and we can see for ourselves.

I'm interested in the truth-- I don't mind be shown to be wrong...

...but ALSO.... Totovader seems to want to visit every other thread except this one dealing with HIS OWN CHALLENGE...the people who are about to lose their homes might wonder why.


So ...who should provide the hyperlink for these people...ME or Totovader?

Christ, stop with the mental-masturbation and post the link.

[david carmichael]

Christ, stop with the mental-masturbation and post the link.


Totovader...do you agree?

This is your challenge....

You want me to provide the hyperlink to the Government's own Web site?

...or would you prefer to do it yourself....

NOTE: On Toto's youtube web site ...I ended up having to provide the link myself

[ElMondoHummus]

Totovader...do you agree?

This is your challenge....

You want me to provide the hyperlink to the Government's own Web site?

...or would you prefer to do it yourself....

NOTE: On Toto's youtube web site ...I ended up having to provide the link myself


Post the link.

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

My expert response:

It is not likely that I shall say anything new here. If I do, it will be of only minor significance. Nevertheless, Mr. David Carmichael's assistants remain a small isolated minority, except during times of economic or social stress, when a mass following develops to blame phlegmatic, heinous slumlords for the problems besetting society. Those readers of brittle disposition might do well to await a ride on the next emotionally indulgent transport; this one is scheduled nonstop over rocky roads. As soon as you're strapped in, I'll announce something to the effect of how you don't have to say anything specifically about Mr. Carmichael for him to start attacking you. All you have to do is dare to imply that we should speak out against behavior and speech that is intended to promote offensive ideologies such as antagonism. I agree that he is as lackluster as he is clueless. But I also think that the time is always right to do what is right. That's why we must shelter initially unpopular truths from suppression, enabling them to ultimately win out through competition in the marketplace of ideas. The first step in that process is to realize that I have a dream, a mission, a set path that I would like to travel down. Specifically, my goal is to bring meaning, direction, and purpose into our lives. Of course, the acid test for his "kinder, gentler" new criticisms should be, "Do they still discredit legitimate voices in the insurrectionism debate?" If the answer is yes, then we can conclude that Mr. Carmichael motivates people to join his camp by using words like "humanity", "compassion", and "unity". This is a great deception. What Mr. Carmichael really wants to do is abet ethnic genocide, dictatorships, and snotty, jaundiced heresiarchs. That's why I once had a nightmare in which Mr. Carmichael was free to make all of us pay for his boondoggles. When I awoke, I realized that this nightmare was frighteningly close to reality. For instance, it is the case both in my nightmare and in reality that either Mr. Carmichael has no real conception of the sweep of history, or he is merely intent on winning some debating pin by trying to pierce a hole in my logic with "facts" that are taken out of context.

What Mr. Carmichael fails to mention in his expositions is actually quite telling. For example, did you know that Mr. Carmichael wants to concoct a version of reality that fully contradicts real life? Or that loathsome, intransigent roustabouts like him tend to conveniently ignore the key issues of this or any other situation?

Mr. Carmichael can't fool me. I've met complacent, sullen reavers before, so I know that if Mr. Carmichael is going to talk about higher standards, then he needs to live by those higher standards. For proof of this ongoing tragedy, one has only to realize that even when the facts don't fit, he sometimes tries to use them anyway. He still maintains, for instance, that the laws of nature don't apply to him. Please don't misunderstand me; I'm not saying that Mr. Carmichael is known for his sound judgment, unerring foresight, and sagacious adaptation of means to ends. In fact, you may be worried that he will advocate measures that others criticize for being excessively sexist one day. If so, then I share your misgivings. But let's not worry about that now. Instead, let's discuss my observation that if one believes statements like, "Bad things 'just happen' (i.e., they're not caused by Mr. Carmichael himself)," one is, in effect, supporting money-grubbing antagonists. Lastly, I can't end this letter without mentioning that Mr. David Carmichael is the ultimate source of alienation and repression around here.

[Dave Rogers]

The Challenge: What one piece of evidence(even though the evidence has all been seized & one needs to concentrate on catching them in lies/evasiveness in their answers) would convince you the WTC attack was genuine.


THE REPLY: The screenshots from the Bureau Of Transportation Statistics Web Site showing that all 4 planes took off the morning of 9/11/2001.

I see. So your contention is this:

(a) Because a website fails to contain two pieces of evidence that you feel it should contain (i.e. departure times of two flights have not been entered), you believe that 9/11 was an inside job; and, by clear implication,
(b) If that website were now altered so as to show those departure times you would therefore believe that 9/11 was not an inside job.

Is that basically it?

Dave

[apathoid]

Welll... very good... it took this many posts to get one substantive response...

HYPERLINK US TO THE BTS WEB SITE and we can see for ourselves.

I'm interested in the truth-- I don't mind be shown to be wrong...

...but ALSO.... Totovader seems to want to visit every other thread except this one dealing with HIS OWN CHALLENGE...the people who are about to lose their homes might wonder why.


So ...who should provide the hyperlink for these people...ME or Totovader?


Ok a more serious response this time. It is a serious matter, after all.

Go here http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatistics/src/dstat/OntimeSummaryDepatures.xml


...and check "All statistics" and select Miami from the "Origin Airport" pulldown. Next, select American Airlines from the "Airline" field. Then enter a date of December 20, 1995 and hit "Submit".

You'll find that AA 965 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_965) is noticably absent.

Repeat the search with:

- All statistics
- New York JFK
- American Airlines
- November 12, 2001

...and you'll find that AA 587 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_587) is also absent. Perhaps AA has a company policy on not reporting statistics for crashed flights? This took me 10 minutes David. 10 minutes of research to squash your smoking gun....

[Dave Rogers]

My expert response:

Spooky. I've seen these auto-generated rants before, but this was the first time I've read one and found myself nodding and thinking, "How true".

Dave

[Disbelief]

I'm confused about the Ohio death row inmates. If you wanted to know something from them , I could have written to one of them. Alas, he is no longer with us.

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

Spooky. I've seen these auto-generated rants before, but this was the first time I've read one and found myself nodding and thinking, "How true".

Dave

It is freakishly scary...

http://www.pakin.org/complaint/

[A W Smith]

The Challenge: What one piece of evidence(even though the evidence has all been seized & one needs to concentrate on catching them in lies/evasiveness in their answers) would convince you the WTC attack was genuine.


THE REPLY: The screenshots from the Bureau Of Transportation Statistics Web Site showing that all 4 planes took off the morning of 9/11/2001.


Totovader....would you like to provide the people of White Pine County & New Iberia, La. the Web site hyperlink or would you prefer that I provide them?

from
http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatistics/src/ddisp/OntimeSummarySelect.xml?tname=OntimeSummaryFlightD ata
Summary Statistics
Flight Number




Airline: American Airlines (AA)Flight Number: 0011Time Period: September 11, 2001 to September 11, 2001
On-Time Flights:
NOTE: Late, cancelled and diverted flights are subtracted from total flights to determine on-time percent.
A complete listing of airline (http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_information/airline_ontime_statistics/DetailedStatistics/INFO/CarrierInfo.html)and airport (http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_information/airline_ontime_statistics/DetailedStatistics/INFO/AirportInfo.html)abbreviations is available. Times are reported in local time using a 24 hour clock.
On September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight #11 and #77 and United Airlines #93 and #175 were hijacked by terrorists. Therefore, these flights are not included in the on-time summary statistics.

That will be $500.00 please

of thats right you welch on your bets
Liar

[Dave Rogers]

Perhaps AA has a company policy on not reporting statistics for crashed flights? This took me 10 minutes David. 10 minutes of research to squash your smoking gun....

Fortunately[1], United Airlines has not had a crashed flight during the period available for search other than on 9/11, so we can't verify the other side of the equation, which would be that UA has a different company policy to AA in reporting such statistics.

Dave

[1] Not in the context of this specific enquiry, but generally speaking people not being killed in air crashes is A Good Thing.

[apathoid]

Fortunately[1], United Airlines has not had a crashed flight during the period available for search other than on 9/11, so we can't verify the other side of the equation, which would be that UA has a different company policy to AA in reporting such statistics.

Dave

[1] Not in the context of this specific enquiry, but generally speaking people not being killed in air crashes is A Good Thing.


Contrary to what AW posted, both UA's 93 and 175 do show up in the on-time search query in the BTS database.

[Totovader]

Totovader??? Totovader??

Simmah down. This is a message board, not a chat room. If I do not respond, it's because I'm not here.

Stop demanding that I answer your questions or pretend like you need my approval to post your claims. This is your show, not mine. You have conveniently ignored my Challenge and are clearly not capable of even comprehending it.

[ElMondoHummus]

Ok a more serious response this time. It is a serious matter, after all.

Go here http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatistics/src/dstat/OntimeSummaryDepatures.xml


...and check "All statistics" and select Miami from the "Origin Airport" pulldown. Next, select American Airlines from the "Airline" field. Then enter a date of December 20, 1995 and hit "Submit".

You'll find that AA 965 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_965) is noticably absent.

Repeat the search with:

- All statistics
- New York JFK
- American Airlines
- November 12, 2001

...and you'll find that AA 587 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_587) is also absent. Perhaps AA has a company policy on not reporting statistics for crashed flights? This took me 10 minutes David. 10 minutes of research to squash your smoking gun....


Just for the record, if you use this page to do searches for the 9/11 flights:

American Airlines Flight 11, departing from Boston Logan
American Airlines Flight 77, departing from Washington Dulles
United Airlines Flight 175, departing from Boston Logan
United Airlines Flight 93, departing from Newark
(Source: Wikipedia's 9/11 page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks))

... you'll see departure times listed for all four flights. Try it yourself and see. At any rate, this gives lie to the claim by Mr. Charmichael here:


So ... should I provide the hyperlink OR DO YOU ALL already know that that Web Site is going to sho only 2 of the 4 planes took off on 9/11/2001?... the US Government's own Web site!

Not only is the specific claim about BTS not showing the flights wrong, but his claim to post the URL is wrong too. Note that the page is a database query. Providing a raw hyperlink minus the queries returns an error, and a request to select the database fields on which to query.

Of course, if the queries submit criteria through the URL - some sites do this - then his claim to post a link would be valid, but if you look at BTS's page, it does not behave that way. The parameters are not passed through the URL. So he wouldn't be able to post any URL directly linking to "the US Government's own Web site" to prove his argument.

This one's debunked on multiple levels.

[CptColumbo]

B O S
I A D
E W R

[Totovader]

Totovader...do you agree?

This is your challenge....

You want me to provide the hyperlink to the Government's own Web site?

...or would you prefer to do it yourself....

NOTE: On Toto's youtube web site ...I ended up having to provide the link myself

This has nothing to do with my Challenge- this is your own malformed bastardization of my Challenge with no reference to it whatsoever. Had you the power of reasoning, this would be an entirely different series of threads- but obviously this is about something else going on inside your head.

You spouted on for 14 different posts in the period of an hour talking to yourself. You posted some kind of a link to something which had absolutely nothing to do with my Challenge. You continued that derailment by inserting complete nonsense about JREF, USS Liberty, and your usual drivel.

[A W Smith]

Contrary to what AW posted, both UA's 93 and 175 do show up in the on-time search query in the BTS database.


I did not type that quote. That was the exact result i got from an AA flight 11 query. I simply highlighted and copy pasted. What query did you get a UA result on?

[e^n]

A screenshot to complete the terms:
http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07435/screenshot4.png.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs320&d=07435&f=screenshot4.png)

[apathoid]

Just for the record, if you use this page to do searches for the 9/11 flights:

American Airlines Flight 11, departing from Boston Logan
American Airlines Flight 77, departing from Washington Dulles
United Airlines Flight 175, departing from Boston Logan
United Airlines Flight 93, departing from Newark
(Source: Wikipedia's 9/11 page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks))

... you'll see departure times listed for all four flights. Try it yourself and see.


Actually, the departure times for the AA flights are the scheduled ETA's and not the actual times. The only fields filled in for the AA flights are the scheduled times. All of the departure fields are filled in for the UA flights, so they were reported.

[Totovader]

Welll... very good... it took this many posts to get one substantive response...

HYPERLINK US TO THE BTS WEB SITE and we can see for ourselves.

I'm interested in the truth-- I don't mind be shown to be wrong...

...but ALSO.... Totovader seems to want to visit every other thread except this one dealing with HIS OWN CHALLENGE...the people who are about to lose their homes might wonder why.


So ...who should provide the hyperlink for these people...ME or Totovader?

Burden of proof fallacy- mixed with your ever-popular ad baculum. You demand that people do things at your whim but never stick around for the rebuttals. It's confusing and self-defeating.

I have- in no way- "visited every other thread except this one dealing with [my] own challenge" and I have no idea what you're babbling about with people losing their homes.

First of all- this post has nothing to do with my Challenge. You've gone off on your own tangent- and once again no rational person is able to follow you.

Second- THIS IS NOT A CHATROOM, this is a message board. If I'm not posting, it's because I'm not here...

You need to understand that not everyone has "computer lab" time when it's convenient for you.

[apathoid]

Screencaps of the BTS departure stats for the 9/11 flights.






United 93:
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/9902472211a59fcdc.jpg



United 175:
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/9902472211b41c5d9.jpg




American 11:
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/99024722116c21c03.jpg




American 77:
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/990247221185e55cf.jpg

[A W Smith]

Contrary to what AW posted, both UA's 93 and 175 do show up in the on-time search query in the BTS database.


I just did a query for all four flights. The results duplicate the quote from my post above.

http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatistics/src/ddisp/OntimeSummarySelect.xml?tname=OntimeSummaryFlightD ata

apathoid can you link the page you query was from?

[apathoid]

I just did a query for all four flights. The results duplicate the quote from my post above.

http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatistics/src/ddisp/OntimeSummarySelect.xml?tname=OntimeSummaryFlightD ata

apathoid can you link the page you query was from?


http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatistics/src/dstat/OntimeSummaryDepatures.xml

[ElMondoHummus]

Actually, the departure times for the AA flights are the scheduled ETA's and not the actual times. The only fields filled in for the AA flights are the scheduled times. All of the departure fields are filled in for the UA flights, so they were reported.


Ahh, good point. Thank you for that. Yes, I did select "Scheduled" instead of "Actual".

Anyway, when I do a search by individual flight, I get the same result as AW Smith does:


On September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight #11 and #77 and United Airlines #93 and #175 were hijacked by terrorists. Therefore, these flights are not included in the on-time summary statistics.


Which is a little incorrect, as you pointed out: United reported their data. But even if you consider the 00:00 time listed, all that means is that the data wasn't entered. There are multiple explanations for that. Any attempt to make that lack of departure time entry conspiratorial is absurd.

[negativ]

Ohio Death Row Inmates So there are Ohio death row inmates reading this? Or is that just the name of your room-mate's heavy metal band?

Assuming the former: Hi guys! Here are some suggestions I've always wanted to pass along to death row inmates, for when your Big Day comes.

1. Learn to yodel, and try to go out yodelling. Allow me to suggest The Chicken Yodel (http://www.masteryodeler.com/Kerry's%20MP3s/Little%20Em/Chicken%20Yodel.MP3). Add a downtempo, ballad-sounding verse in the middle, then for the final verse, return to the original tempo and do the standard half-step sharp keychange (AKA the "Truck Driver's Gearchange (http://www.gearchange.org/)"). Leave 'em begging for more.

2. As your "final statement", tell the set-up for a joke but refuse to tell the punchline. It could be something like, "How is a prison guard different from a transsexual nun?" Make up your own. Don't worry about coming up with a punch line, because you're not gonna tell it anyway.

3. Work up a really good version of "The Aristocrats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_aristocrats)" and use it as your "last words". Tell it right up to where the talent agent asks what the act is called, and then say no more. Previously, you would have instructed the warden to say "The Aristocrats!" after you're pronounced dead.

4. Come up with a filthy limerick including the words "Nantucket" and "bucket", and be sure to dedicate it to "Alex Jones' bullhorn."

Sorry for the derail. We now return you to our regularly-scheduled lunacy.

[apathoid]

Ahh, good point. Thank you for that. Yes, I did select "Scheduled" instead of "Actual".

Anyway, when I do a search by individual flight, I get the same result as AW Smith does:


Yeah, apparently they are only listed in the "Detailed Departure Statistics" for the airline/airport.





Which is a little incorrect, as you pointed out: United reported their data. But even if you consider the 00:00 time listed, all that means is that the data wasn't entered. There are multiple explanations for that. Any attempt to make that lack of departure time entry conspiratorial is absurd.


Well, technically, it isn't contradictory. Note the highlighted part in the message about the 9/11 flights..

"Airline: American Airlines (AA)Flight Number: 0011Time Period: September 11, 2001 to September 11, 2001
On-Time Flights:
NOTE: Late, cancelled and diverted flights are subtracted from total flights to determine on-time percent.
A complete listing of airline (http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_information/airline_ontime_statistics/DetailedStatistics/INFO/CarrierInfo.html)and airport (http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_information/airline_ontime_statistics/DetailedStatistics/INFO/AirportInfo.html)abbreviations is available. Times are reported in local time using a 24 hour clock.
On September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight #11 and #77 and United Airlines #93 and #175 were hijacked by terrorists. Therefore, these flights are not included in the on-time summary statistics."


It doesn't say anything about them not being included in the Departure Statistics.;)

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

I've always wondered. Are those flight numbers "retired" by their respective airlines?

[Brainster]

I've always wondered. Are those flight numbers "retired" by their respective airlines?

Yes, the airlines have traditionally retired flight numbers that were involved in crashes.

[david carmichael]

This has nothing to do with my Challenge- this is your own malformed bastardization of my Challenge with no reference to it whatsoever. Had you the power of reasoning, this would be an entirely different series of threads- but obviously this is about something else going on inside your head.

You spouted on for 14 different posts in the period of an hour talking to yourself. You posted some kind of a link to something which had absolutely nothing to do with my Challenge. You continued that derailment by inserting complete nonsense about JREF, USS Liberty, and your usual drivel.


"Come on Carlo, you don't think a trick like that would fool a Correleone?"

Your challenge was "what one piece of evidence would convince me that 9/11 was not the work of the ill-willed people other than terrorists" or something to that effect...

The one piece of evidence IS the Government's own Web Site showing that all 4 planes took off the morning of September 11, 2001...


Now... Totovader---- you're one of the experts on this topic... Tell the people of White Pine County... you ALREADY KNOW what the BTS Web Site says, don't you?

You knew it even before I posted the hyperlink last night on your youtube challenge, correct?

This is why you are being so evasive, correct?



My reply

[Totovader]

"Come on Carlo, you don't think a trick like that would fool a Correleone?"

Your challenge was "what one piece of evidence would convince me that 9/11 was not the work of the ill-willed people other than terrorists" or something to that effect...

The one piece of evidence IS the Government's own Web Site showing that all 4 planes took off the morning of September 11, 2001...


Now... Totovader---- you're one of the experts on this topic... Tell the people of White Pine County... you ALREADY KNOW what the BTS Web Site says, don't you?

You knew it even before I posted the hyperlink last night on your youtube challenge, correct?

This is why you are being so evasive, correct?



My reply



I am not being evasive, freak- I am largely ignoring you. I didn't follow that you were answering my Challenge- because you offered no response which even came close to resembling a response. You started going off on your usual tangent- and I would be impressed if you were able to find a SINGLE PERSON ON THE FACE OF THE PLANET that could follow you.

[defaultdotxbe]

looking at the "About" page for both the BTS and RITA it seems that crashed and hijakced flights wouldnt really concern them, as they wouldnt aid in identifying flaws in the transportation system (security and vehicle design perhaps, but not the transportation system) so i wouldnt expect them to make an effort to collect infromation on such flights

http://www.bts.gov/about/
http://www.rita.dot.gov/about_rita/

[beachnut]

"Come on Carlo, you don't think a trick like that would fool a Correleone?"

Your challenge was "what one piece of evidence would convince me that 9/11 was not the work of the ill-willed people other than terrorists" or something to that effect...

The one piece of evidence IS the Government's own Web Site showing that all 4 planes took off the morning of September 11, 2001...


Now... Totovader---- you're one of the experts on this topic... Tell the people of White Pine County... you ALREADY KNOW what the BTS Web Site says, don't you?

You knew it even before I posted the hyperlink last night on your youtube challenge, correct?

This is why you are being so evasive, correct?

My reply
You are posting some real crazy stuff. Why? What is your problem with reality?

[ElMondoHummus]

"Come on Carlo, you don't think a trick like that would fool a Correleone?"

Your challenge was "what one piece of evidence would convince me that 9/11 was not the work of the ill-willed people other than terrorists" or something to that effect...

The one piece of evidence IS the Government's own Web Site showing that all 4 planes took off the morning of September 11, 2001...


Now... Totovader---- you're one of the experts on this topic... Tell the people of White Pine County... you ALREADY KNOW what the BTS Web Site says, don't you?

You knew it even before I posted the hyperlink last night on your youtube challenge, correct?

This is why you are being so evasive, correct?



My reply


Repitition of illogical argumentative tactic: <A href="http://"http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#needling" target=_blank>Argument by needling

[Brainster]

This is the usual "sacred list" argument. It was only the most intricate, flawlessly executed plan ever, ever, but it was exposed because nobody was willing to tamper with the "sacred list". Kill 3,000 people in a false flag operation? No problem. Tamper with a list at the Bureau of Transportation Statistics in order to cover up the crime? No way!

[dudalb]

I am still trying to figure out the obssesion with White Pine County,Nevada,and New Iberia,Louisiana.
Either way the good people of those two places should not be blamed for the insane rants of the OP,who despertely need help.

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

I am still trying to figure out the obssesion with White Pine County,Nevada,and New Iberia,Louisiana.
Either way the good people of those two places should not be blamed for the insane rants of the OP,who despertely need help.

Hi Barb!!!!

[Dr Adequate]

The Challenge: What one piece of evidence(even though the evidence has all been seized & one needs to concentrate on catching them in lies/evasiveness in their answers) would convince you the WTC attack was genuine.


THE REPLY: The screenshots from the Bureau Of Transportation Statistics Web Site showing that all 4 planes took off the morning of 9/11/2001. It's funny, you'd think the Government would be able to fake evidence on their own website.

All it would have taken would be a few keystrokes, and you'd be convinced that they had nothing to do with 9/11. When it's as easy as that to dupe you, it makes one wonder why they didn't bother.

Perhaps they didn't realise that any conspiracy theorist would have so much blind faith in the veracity of Government websites.

[MetalliSociety]

"On September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight #11 and #77 and United Airlines #93 and #175 were hijacked by terrorists. Therefore, these flights are not included in the on-time summary statistics. "

[Dr Adequate]

The NWO do make these funny little mistakes, don't they? The Government's own website says that there were no planes; Larry Silverstein went on television to say how he blew up WTC7; George Bush Sr used to go about bragging how he was part of the New World Order ... hey, do you remember the time when Mark Roberts decided that the best place for his clandestine meeting with his CIA handler was in front of a Truther rally?

Sheesh, the NWO are so darn stupid it makes you wonder how they got to rule the world in the first place.

[david carmichael]

Ok a more serious response this time. It is a serious matter, after all.

Go here http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatistics/src/dstat/OntimeSummaryDepatures.xml


...and check "All statistics" and select Miami from the "Origin Airport" pulldown. Next, select American Airlines from the "Airline" field. Then enter a date of December 20, 1995 and hit "Submit".

You'll find that AA 965 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_965) is noticably absent.

Repeat the search with:

- All statistics
- New York JFK
- American Airlines
- November 12, 2001

...and you'll find that AA 587 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_587) is also absent. Perhaps AA has a company policy on not reporting statistics for crashed flights? This took me 10 minutes David. 10 minutes of research to squash your smoking gun....

Well, thank you Apathoid...

perhaps you should have researched for 11 minutes then, old chum

I'm using this ALTERNATE BTS hyperlink AS OPPOSED TO YOURS:

http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatistics/src/dstat/OntimeSummaryDepaturesData.xml



You are correct, apathoid....AA 965 which crashed is absent from the Flight Statistics....

Flight 77 and Flight 11 on 9/11/2001 are not absent, though.


Let's go to the other crash of AA Flight 587 which also crashed that you mentioned...


Flight 77 and Flight 11 on 9/11/2001 are not absent, though.


Let's try TWA 800....7/17/1996....TWA...JFK

TWA 800 which crashed is also absent

Flight 77 and Flight 11 on 9/11/2001 are not absent, though.



So your 10 minutes of research should have probably been extended by about 30 seconds or so...


This took me 10 minutes David. 10 minutes of research to squash your smoking gun....


Ohhh no.... old chum... Pro-Zionist USS Liberty Researchers Mike Weeks and Federal Bankruptcy Judge A. Jay Cristol(both of the book "The Liberty Incident"...Weeks is given thanks on Page Roman Numeral xv or xvi) know my FINANCIAL ANGLE in all of this AS DOES THE Chief of Squad 3 of the Cleveland, Ohio FBI and the US Attorney for the Northern Ohio Judicial District.

The people of White Pine County are not aware of the SPECIFICS of the "financial angle" but indeed THEY KNOW that the Chief of Squad 3 is aware of it.

I don't take ANYONE'S WORD at "face value"..... I prototype the VALIDITY of a potential smoking gun BY BRINGING IT to you pro-Zionists....

I GET NO MONEY if I'm wrong.


I know that you people are LIKE A go/no go gage...

a) If it is untrue/unreliable...you jump all over it and clear the matter up

b) But if it is true.... you evade the topic.


I GET NO MONEY if I'm wrong, apathoid... but you pro-Zionists SURE CUT DOWN THE AMOUNT OF LEGWORK that I need to perform.


Totovader,
Gravy,
Gumboot....

Please contact pro-Zionists, Judge Cristol and Mike Weeks at thelibertyincident.com and inform them that tokyo_davey_boy_paton is using his David Carmichael nom de plume on the JREF Forums and hyperlink them to this thread.

They have the PASSWORD but they DO NOT HAVE the e-mail account that will be unlocked/accessed by that password.

TO JUDGE CRISTOL and m'wee bairn, Mikey Weeks:

Loved that Chicago Tribune article....particularly the part about the Israeli archives not producing the -1 tape and only the -2 tape...

Let's see, m'wee bairns.... Ha'aretz Columnist, Tom Segev has now TWICE dug into the State Archives(1949: The First Israelis & 1967)

Never put it in writing...

Mikey...hyperlink the people to the Google Groups thread where I revealed my name AND THE specifics of the FINANCIAL ANGLE... y'keep on refusing to do that, laddie.


Now...does the Israeli AG or his consular designate want to surrender to the Chief of Squad 3 and admit guilt before the US Attorney and .....

.....hope-upon-hope that US Attorney White can fashion a "constitutionally-compliant" star chamber for Israel voluntarily to agree to be tried in?

These PRO-ZIONISTS here can't seem to appreciate THAT THEY ARE dealing with a DIFFERENT AUDIENCE;to wit, ENTIRE communities who HAVE RUN COMPLETELY out of options and are totally desparate.


Phase II shows them a lawful way to parlay your evasiveness into...

1) getting their groundwater back,
2)getting 100% reimbursement for Katrina damages,
3)getting off Death Row in favor of life sentences,
4)legalizing offshore sports betting again,
5) backtracking on the exotic dancing laws just enacted by the Ohio Legislature.

But right now, Judge Cristol and Mike Weeks--- ask Totovader about that Battery Park Footage of the second plane striking WTC on the CNN Tribute DVD.

Wouldn't it be better to go to the US Attorney and hope he can QUIETLY(and "lawfully") arrange something like a "constituionally-compliant" star chamber on an incident that occurred over 40 years ago...

...AS OPPOSED TO having ex-White Pine County Commissioner, Gary Perea fly to Manhattan after me, Totovader and Gumboot provide a "foreshortening" effect that allows him to locate the EXACT SPOT where that CNN Video was shot from....

That CNN Video will validate the NBC Footage shown at the end of "Chromakey Assassins" on YouTube where the WTC Building sprouts legs and walks off to the left... remember thousands of those DVDs were sold...

...and also remember THOUSANDS of people recorded the events of 9/11 on their home DVDs/VCRs... no one is going to accuse Granny Williams or Aunt Minnie of doctoring 9/11 WTC Footage ---especially once that phony Battery Park footage is exposed to the light of day to GROUPS OF people whose backs are TOTALLY up against the wall

I hope you two laddies are a wee bit more clever than these JREFers here...although that doctored series of gun camera photos on page 79 doesna' provide evidence of it, correct?

Again guys,like I told you on the Google Groups

1) There is NO best deal--- there may be a "least worst" deal if US Attorney White agrees

2)There is no SWEET DEAL--- there is a LEAST SOUR deal.


You guys BOTH KNOW that I'm entitled to those financial rewards from the US Government.

Nothing personal; they just basically told me I couldn't find a constitutionally-compliant way to fight City Hall to get my multiple rewards.


I'm going to provide you the e-mail account in a couple of weeks which shows THE SPECIFICS of Phase II... I promised you the Israeli Attorney General would not be asked to buy a "pig-in-a-poke"

You have the PASSWORD already-- you just need to know what is in that e-mail account.

Go to the very end of the "Chromakey Assassins" segment on YouTube guys....Aunt Minnie has that on her VCR

You DON'T WANT grrrrroups of citizenry being shown in Phase II how to parlay this into what they want...because it WILL NEVER STOP after they see you all BLINK just like they've seen with Gumboot.

let's work within the law and do this by the regualtions

Cheers, Mikey

[funk de fino]

best one yet Davie Boy

complete lunacy of a superior standard to all others witnessed here

I applaud you

[gumboot]

Actually, the departure times for the AA flights are the scheduled ETA's and not the actual times. The only fields filled in for the AA flights are the scheduled times. All of the departure fields are filled in for the UA flights, so they were reported.


The times aren't right anyway. UA93 didn't take off until 08:42.

-Gumboot

[david carmichael]

Now let's see Flight 93 and Flight 175 to see if they're included...why yes they are....


http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatistics/src/dstat/OntimeSummaryDepatures.xml

Flight 175
Logan Airport-Boston
September 11, 2001
United Airlines
All Statistics

Flight 93
United Airlines
September 11, 2001
Newark Liberty Airport
All Statistics

...but Flight 77 and Flight 175 are not.

2 planes accounted for... 2 planes unaccounted for

[david carmichael]

best one yet Davie Boy

complete lunacy of a superior standard to all others witnessed here

I applaud you

Thank you; you've been a wonderful audience...two shows nightly... I'll be hear all week, folks....bbrrrrmmmp(rimshot)!

[Bell]

Now let's see Flight 93 and Flight 175 to see if they're included...why yes they are....


http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatistics/src/dstat/OntimeSummaryDepatures.xml

Flight 175
Logan Airport-Boston
September 11, 2001
United Airlines
All Statistics

Flight 93
United Airlines
September 11, 2001
Newark Liberty Airport
All Statistics

...but Flight 77 and Flight 175 are not.

2 planes accounted for... 2 planes unaccounted for

And this proves what?

[defaultdotxbe]

And this proves what?

this sort of thing always reminds me of something i read on snopes

Make sure every inconsistency or unexplained detail you can dredge up is offered as evidence of a conspiracy, no matter how insignificant or pointless it may be. If an obvious suicide is discovered wearing only one shoe, ignore the physical evidence of self-inflicted death and dwell on the missing shoe. You don't have to establish an alternate theory of the death; just keep harping that the missing shoe "can't be explained."

[ElMondoHummus]

Well, thank you Apathoid...
...
..
Cheers, Mikey


Zw8nzm1zPKA

[bje]

You could always ask Seth McFarland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth_McFarland#September_11.2C_2001) whether or not his plane took off. He arrived 10 minutes late (http://www.tv.com/seth-macfarlane/person/57171/biography.html), and wasn't allowed to board while it prepared to take off. That was flight 11.

Let's not forget all of the people involved in the following occupations for all four flights:

Curbside luggage check-in.
Main ticket counter reps.
Gate check-in ticket takers.
Aircraft maintenance crews.
Aircraft cleaning service personnel.
Fuel loaders.
Catering crews.
Baggage handlers loading flights.
Airline flight operations
Crew check in and route weather briefings.
Crew flight plan filing with control tower (including airline name, flight number, and aircraft type.)
Passenger count taker when boarding complete.
Passenger ramp rollback operator.
Aircraft pushback operator.
Tower ground control.
ATC tower control for takeoff.
Handoff to departure control (TRACON)
Handoff to ARTCC controllers - (enroute control provided by Boston Center, New York Center, Cleveland Center, Indianapolis Center, and Washington Center.)

And don't forget several hundred firemen and rescue workers at the Pentagon.

I am sure I have forgotten others.

[beachnut]

Thank you; you've been a wonderful audience...two shows nightly... I'll be hear all week, folks....bbrrrrmmmp(rimshot)!
Why are all neoNAZIs unable to do research and figure out 9/11? You have posted your junk all over the internet. You do not make any sense at all.

You post a worthless statement to begin this tread. Not anything to do with 9/11. A totally worthless post. Worthless. Questions?

[Plantfoam]

I was going to post a message that thoroughly debunks all of this, but unfortunately I was brainwashed by Ann Cappalletti and her Jewish witch powers first.

[GeeMack]

If I want to post a useless comment in a useless thread just to add one to my post count, is there a better thread than this?

[david carmichael]

And this proves what?

LIKE IT SAYS...two planes accounted for and two plane flights unaccounted for.


We've seen from THIS PARTICULAR GOVERNMENT hyperlink that crashes from AA and TWA do not show up BUT THAT Flight Cancellations or some other reason do appear.

No tail number ...no time of departure

2 of the 4 planes DO HAVE TAKE-OFF TIMES and are recorded...even though they were hijacked and crashed.

The other TWO don't

[Arus808]

If I want to post a useless comment in a useless thread just to add one to my post count, is there a better thread than this?

Hey, all of David's posts thus far have been useless (since they make absolutely no sense whatsoever) so actually your useless comment is not really useless since one can understand what you are posting.

Then again, useless comments are what the entire 911 Denial movement is comprised of, so David's contribution thus far is on par with the rest of the useless comments from the 911 Truth movement. I mean, does one have to gain some sort of degree in college to post useless comments?

[DGM]

LIKE IT SAYS...two planes accounted for and two plane flights unaccounted for.


We've seen from THIS PARTICULAR GOVERNMENT hyperlink that crashes from AA and TWA do not show up BUT THAT Flight Cancellations or some other reason do appear.

No tail number ...no time of departure

2 of the 4 planes DO HAVE TAKE-OFF TIMES and are recorded...even though they were hijacked and crashed.

The other TWO don't
So UAL's show up and AA's don't. Thanks for clearing that up.:rolleyes:

[Arus808]

LIKE IT SAYS...two planes accounted for and two plane flights unaccounted for.


We've seen from THIS PARTICULAR GOVERNMENT hyperlink that crashes from AA and TWA do not show up BUT THAT Flight Cancellations or some other reason do appear.

you know all you have to do is call up the respective airlines and talk to their representatives. YOU do know that the BTS doesn't do regular updates.


another red herring by david carmichael.

[Bell]

LIKE IT SAYS...two planes accounted for and two plane flights unaccounted for.


We've seen from THIS PARTICULAR GOVERNMENT hyperlink that crashes from AA and TWA do not show up BUT THAT Flight Cancellations or some other reason do appear.

No tail number ...no time of departure

2 of the 4 planes DO HAVE TAKE-OFF TIMES and are recorded...even though they were hijacked and crashed.

The other TWO don't

To repeat my question you replied but did not answer:

And this proves what?

[david carmichael]

To repeat my question you replied but did not answer:

And this proves what?

See post #1 of this thread.



http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3092993&postcount=1
JREF Graduate Poster's "9/11 WTC Challenge Redux"

The Challenge: What one piece of evidence(even though the evidence has all been seized & one needs to concentrate on catching them in lies/evasiveness in their answers) would convince you the WTC attack was genuine.


THE REPLY: The screenshots from the Bureau Of Transportation Statistics Web Site showing that all 4 planes took off the morning of 9/11/2001.


Totovader....would you like to provide the people of White Pine County & New Iberia, La. the Web site hyperlink or would you prefer that I provide them?

Seeing that data would have convinced me all 4 flights took off that morning of September 11, 2001.

[Bell]

See post #1 of this thread.

So, an internet database that lacks certain information (for whatever reason) is proof of a 9/11 inside job?

[david carmichael]

So, an internet database that lacks certain information (for whatever reason) is proof of a 9/11 inside job?

You mean a database of the US Government, correct?

Why didn't you say so then?

..."Seeing that data would have convinced me all 4 flights took off that morning of September 11, 2001."

You snipped out that quote..perhaps intentionally?

What I'm saying is that it would have convinced me that all 4 planes took off that morning of 9/11/2001

[Totovader]

So, an internet database that lacks certain information (for whatever reason) is proof of a 9/11 inside job?

It's worse than that- unbeknownst to anyone who manages databases, information storage, or website storage- the BTS website is what determines reality. If a record were to disappear from this database, the plane will vanish from its current location.

Additionally, contrary to what the BTS website itself says- david carmichael demands that they maintain information on flights which were hijacked and crashed.

Who knew!

[Totovader]

You mean a database of the US Government, correct?

Why didn't you say so then?


You snipped out that quote..perhaps intentionally?

What I'm saying is that it would have convinced me that all 4 planes took off that morning of 9/11/2001

And now that you have seen that your assumptions regarding this information were a result of your ignorance, you no longer believe it was an inside job, correct?

[Bell]

You mean a database of the US Government, correct?

Why didn't you say so then?

You snipped out that quote..perhaps intentionally?

What I'm saying is that it would have convinced me that all 4 planes took off that morning of 9/11/2001

If not Al Qaeda, who was behind the 9/11 attacks? The US government?

If so, why couldn't that same government make sure that information on government internet sites coinsides with the accounts on what happened that day?

ETA: And NO, I did not mean a database of the US Government, and did not snip out that quote perhaps intentionally. I find your allegation poorly put, to say the least. Don't do that again!

[sleahead]

If not Al Qaeda, who was behind the 9/11 attacks? The US government?

Nah, I reckon he's going for this:

AA11 - Did not take off, replaced by evil gubmint plane or CGI plus explosives,
crashed into tower or tower demo'ed and we were shown CGI.

UA175 - Took off, hijacked by Al Qaeda terrorists, who crashed it into the tower.

AA77 -Did not take off, replaced by evil gubmint plane or cruise missile, Pentagon hit.

UA93 - Took off, hijacked by Al Qaeda terrorists, crashed at Shanksville.

This amounts to simultaneous LIHOP and MIHOP which, I believe, would be a brand new twoof theory. Go for it, David!

[Arus808]

You mean a database of the US Government, correct?

Why didn't you say so then?




oh gee, and guess what? People who died on those planes still appeared on the SOCIAL SECURITY index.

So what if its a government database, it still takes A HUMAN being to update them. And when someone forgets to do so, or doesn't for a long time, GUESS WHAT! it doesn't get UPDATED!

jeezes h Gesundheit

Currently Im maintaining a database that is 4 years out of date. over 10,000 lines of new information has to be added.

[ElMondoHummus]

You mean a database of the US Government, correct?

Why didn't you say so then?


You snipped out that quote..perhaps intentionally?

What I'm saying is that it would have convinced me that all 4 planes took off that morning of 9/11/2001


I love this. That same database says


"On September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight #11 and #77 and United Airlines #93 and #175 were hijacked by terrorists. Therefore, these flights are not included in the on-time summary statistics.""

... and he's still stuck on the singular piece of data, which he disconnects from other info. Other info provided by that same database.

You have to wonder how honest the argument is at that point. It seems to be more about trying to irritate than actually be logically consistent. Just about no one's truly that obtuse, because the counter argument is right at hand. It's right in front of him. There must be a motive behind ignoring the obvious, and that motive is probably just to annoy the members here. It's a most amusing thing, as if it's some sort of truther victory to be able to achieve that.

But if everyone remembers grade school, and how some of the troublesome kids figured it was a victory against their teachers to drive them nuts, it becomes clear: Only pre-adolescent mindsets would consider that sort of achievement a victory.

At any rate, that's the end of his thesis. Not like there was anything there to begin with.

[Totovader]

And now that you have seen that your assumptions regarding this information were a result of your ignorance, you no longer believe it was an inside job, correct?

david carmichael, do you have a response, or not?

Do we now just have more evidence of your dishonesty? And what of the people of whatever county you pretend you're representing? You really want them to know you're all these levels of shady?

[ElMondoHummus]

What I'm saying is that it would have convinced me that all 4 planes took off that morning of 9/11/2001


No. That's not true. You were shown the evidence, and you're ignoring it. The proof is in that same database, and you're not paying attention to it.

Besides which, the lie lies in the fact that someone admits that a single piece of information would convince them. If the numbers of dead, the plethora of witnesses, the amount of wreckage found in the debris of the towers and the Pentagon, and the absolute implausibility of alternate theses, not to mention the abundant contradictions in the alternate fantasies doesn't convince a person, then they're lying about their ability to be convinced. It just simply takes a moment of clarity, such as what Mike Metz (http://extruther.blogspot.com/)experienced, before someone rejects the delusions. And that is not normally experienced in the midst of debate. Or schoolings, as is the case here. At any rate, another typical exercise, with the same results: Argumentum ad nauseam, Argumentum ad ignorantiam, Argumentum ad logicam, Argumentum ad verecundiam (one of the most insane applications we see here with Charmichael's insistence on the BTS database: It's from the Government!), Dicto simpliciter, and some of the most spectacular Non Sequiturs ever.

Same old.

[EventHorizon]

This is one of the most unusual threads I've seen in a long time. Randomly changing font size and color is a lot of fun. It does however make the posts rather difficult to read. Perhaps if you picked one color and stuck with it or else one size and stuck with it, these posts would be easier to read. Whatever, just trying to help.



I never knew they allowed asylum inmates to use the internet.

[tacodaemon]

This is one of the most unusual threads I've seen in a long time. Randomly changing font size and color is a lot of fun. It does however make the posts rather difficult to read. Perhaps if you picked one color and stuck with it or else one size and stuck with it, these posts would be easier to read. Whatever, just trying to help.



I never knew they allowed asylum inmates to use the internet.


He must have learned web design from the Time Cube (http://www.timecube.com/) guy.

[Calcas]

I'm gonna suggest that we create a new sub-forum called "Crazy Land" where OP's like Davids can reside.

There really isn't any other place for them.

Was Christophera even this wacky and nonsensical?

[tacodaemon]

I'm gonna suggest that we create a new sub-forum called "Crazy Land" where OP's like Davids can reside.

There really isn't any other place for them.

Was Christophera even this wacky and nonsensical?


I don't think so. Chris was like a broken record but at least you could usually understand the lyrics.

[Dr Adequate]

You mean a database of the US Government, correct? If you have such blind faith in whatever the Government tells you, I'm sure that you can find some Government source somewhere telling you that the planes took off.

Or you could just look at the very website that you keep banging on about, which states categorically that the four planes were hijacked by terrorists.

[Dr Adequate]

And this proves what? It proves that the Sooper Sekrit Gubmint Agent who was meant to be entering the fake data goofed off halfway through.

You just can't get the staff, can you?

[Sporanox]

The Challenge: Can David Carmichael make even one iota of sense?

The Reply: NO.

[Sabrina]

Wow, you might win the million with that prediction, Sporanox. And welcome!

[David Wong]

You guys know you're having an argument with a person who has a mental illness, right? Everything, including his mindless bravado that just DEMANDS you respond, is a result of an actual physical malfunction in his brain that makes normal reasoning impossible for him?

Don't you think that's weird?

[leftysergeant]

Why have I still no idea what this thread is about?

It is as though I walked into a film version of a William F. Buckley novel in media res.

[Sabrina]

You guys know you're having an argument with a person who has a mental illness, right? Everything, including his mindless bravado that just DEMANDS you respond, is a result of an actual physical malfunction in his brain that makes normal reasoning impossible for him?

Don't you think that's weird?

Oh that was obvious from the second you laid eyes on the OP, my friend. :D

My guess? Schizophrenia, perhaps the paranoid version, perhaps not. I'd lean toward the paranoid version though, just on account of the fact that he's promoting a CT.

But, mental illness aside, it's sort of like the principle of a train wreck; you know you shouldn't be watching, but you can't tear your eyes away. Same thing here.

[apathoid]

Why have I still no idea what this thread is about?

It is as though I walked into a film version of a William F. Buckley novel in media res.


I think I understood some of David's nonsensical rambling.....should I be worried? :boggled:

The basic jist of what he is saying is this: being shown the BTS data for the four 9/11 flights would falsify his belief in an inside job......or something. AW Smith, ElMondo, e^n, myself, and others showed him the four flights in one part of the database(see my screencaps above), showed him an explanation of why they aren't listed in another part of the database, and even showed him some other examples of crashed planes not in said BTS database.

In other words - his argument, if that's what you can call it, was completely vaporized into nanoparticles......and yet he continues to ramble about the BTS database, the USS Liberty, Totovader, Gumboot, teh Joos11!!1, New Iberia, White Pine Nevada, and keeps saying hi to "Barb":confused:.

IMO, this thread should join the other one in JREF Hell.

[bje]

See post #1 of this thread.



http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3092993&postcount=1


Seeing that data would have convinced me all 4 flights took off that morning of September 11, 2001.

I think I was pretty clear in addressing your question. I gave you a list of people to talk to: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=3094267#post3094267

Have you bothered to do your homework? Did these people tell you all 4 flights took off that morning or not?

[jhunter1163]

I'm sorry the people of White Pine County, Nevada, Ohio's Death Row inmates and the good folks in New Iberia, LA, especially Barb, had to witness this.

[Dr Adequate]

You guys know you're having an argument with a person who has a mental illness, right? Everything, including his mindless bravado that just DEMANDS you respond, is a result of an actual physical malfunction in his brain that makes normal reasoning impossible for him? The impossibility of "normal reasoning" seems to be a common feature of all the Truthers we get round here, and his specific argument for Da Troof isn't significantly crazier than all the others I've seen. Why not debate it? At least it's original.

There is a greater-than-usual eccentricity of style, yes. But his actual point is quite comprehensible, it's not like he's saying that he knows there was a conspiracy 'cos the glassblower's cat is bompstable. As such, his point is rational, though wrong, and may be susceptible to debate.

[twinstead]

Well, there it IS worse being rational and wrong than being rational and right, I suppose, but adequate you have a point that it's better than being irrational and wrong.