Quick Question About God and Suicide

[J. Arthur Hastur]

Okay, IF Jesus IS God, then when God caused Jesus to die for our sins, wasn't he committing suicide?

I recently listened to a Baptist Minister expound on how Jesus' coming was foretold and planned by God specifically so that Jesus could die for our sins. This same Baptist Minister has expounded in the past about how Jesus is the only path to God because he IS God.

After asking around, friends family, the homeless guy that begs for change, it seems all of the Christians I have talked to agree that a.) Jesus was destined to die for our sins as ordained by God and b.) that Jesus is God.

So put a.) and b.) together and what actually happened at the crucification? Did God decide that HE was the root of all our sins and decided that to absolve us, HE must kill himself?

Discuss. I'm especially eager to other Christian viewpoints of both.

[petra10]

Okay so jesus is god and he commited suicide.I thought jesus was the son of god and his father, god ,kill him for our sins.

Oh yes,christians,please enlighten us.
Or does the whole thing not boil down to what type of christian answers.IMHO they all change the story to suit theirselves.

[triadboy]

Okay, IF Jesus IS God, then when God caused Jesus to die for our sins, wasn't he committing suicide?

Mythologically, the God-man has to be slain so he can be reborn.

Textually, Jesus was not God:

Mark 15:34 ...My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

...indicates 2 beings.

However, you are correct that the stringent bureaucracy of the early church - in its zeal to conform to itself - eventually made Jesus, God.

Ironically, only Christian theology can agree with a suicidal God. :)

[J. Arthur Hastur]

I concur that if you take the Bible literally, God is NOT Jesus, but that unfortunately is what Christian dogma states.

I can't get any Christians, in person, or here, to respond to this question? Asking about the separate issues they jump to answer 'Yes! Jesus IS God!' and 'Yes! Jesus fulfilled God's prophecy and plan by dying on the cross for our sins!' as soon as I add, then why would God kill himself?? Nothing, I haven't even gotten the weak, 'trinity' explanation.

[Beerina]

No one, to the best of my knowledge, has ever adequately explained why God would kill Himself to appease His own anger at humanity.

Why force Himself to jump through a bizarre hoop like that, when He's the only one who cares about it?

Worse, why is "believing in Jesus without proof" a proper criteria to determine who lives and who dies (or, worse, who lives in pleasure and who lives in unending agony)?

Either way, that's one seriously messed-up deity.

[J. Arthur Hastur]

I think he needs a good psychiatrist. I also find it odd that the Calvinist type believers in predetermination still believe that God judges people.

He's only judging himself if he's already predetermined your actions and destiny.

[Darth Rotor]

Okay, IF Jesus IS God, then when God caused Jesus to die for our sins, wasn't he committing suicide?

I recently listened to a Baptist Minister expound on how Jesus' coming was foretold and planned by God specifically so that Jesus could die for our sins. This same Baptist Minister has expounded in the past about how Jesus is the only path to God because he IS God.

After asking around, friends family, the homeless guy that begs for change, it seems all of the Christians I have talked to agree that a.) Jesus was destined to die for our sins as ordained by God and b.) that Jesus is God.

So put a.) and b.) together and what actually happened at the crucification? Did God decide that HE was the root of all our sins and decided that to absolve us, HE must kill himself?

Discuss. I'm especially eager to other Christian viewpints of both.
Since He isn't dead, He didn't commit suicide. What He appears to have done is sacrifice a temporary earthly manifestation to make a point. (Depends on how you digest the various Christian doctrine on the matter. Using the Triune God premise makes it a bit easier to grasp. )

DR

[J. Arthur Hastur]

Since He isn't dead, He didn't commit suicide. What He appears to have done is sacrifice a temporary earthly manifestation to make a point. (Depends on how you digest the various Christian doctrine on the matter. Using the Triune God premise makes it a bit easier to grasp. )

DR

So, he deceived us? If Christ/God did not die, then our sins were never absolved? What does that implicate?

If someone dies for your sins, then comes back life are your sins reinstated?

[Whack01]

This has never been answered before in the history of the internet! obviously we must get some Christians in here to explain it to us.


/sarcasm

http://www.google.com

ETA: Oh no I said Christians, the implication is that I'm not Christian! what to do! what to do!

[Darth Rotor]

So, he deceived us? If Christ/God did not die, then our sins were never absolved? What does that implicate?
Here is how I put it a while back (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1853823&postcount=42). Maybe not the best answer ever, but what I have to offer.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Let's walk through the sequence of events.

God cloaks himself in mortal flesh (we are talking the Christian triune God here) and lives life from birth to adulthood, which is good so far. Carpentry is creative work, he's in the right business. But he feels called to become a Rabbi, a man of religion. (Whoa, who would have seen that one coming?) Now, to set the example for how people are to treat one another, a difficult to match example I confess, He (in His human manifestation) gives it all up in the prime of his life for everyone else's benifit.

That's the theme.

The hard part to explain, or illustrate, is how the part in mortal flesh is sufficiently decoupled from "all that is God" to make the human experience genuine. I am not good making an anology or mechanism for that. Some day I might come up with one, sorry. (EDIT later)

If the human experience (Jeshuah Ben Joseph) isn't in some way decoupled temporarily from the entirety of God, then you can certainly call the Sacrifice a bit of a show, since He knows he just sloughing off (at the God level) the mortal coil like the skin off of a snake.

Anyway, given that theme, who can give anymore than that? That's doing unto, and for others, with everything you've got (in the human aspect).

EDIT: Here's a very coarse analogue, based on a transition. A woman goes through a lot of pain and anguish to give the gift of life during child birth. Her sacrifice, or her temporary painful and bloody phase, passes, something new and good comes of it, and she returns pretty much to her pre "man, that really hurts" condition afterwards. A very, very coarse analogy to be sure, for all that the theme does involve the giving of life, pain, and sacrifice in the process.


If someone dies for your sins, then comes back life are your sins reinstated?
Why would they be reinstated? God never stopped being God, the flesh version of Him is what ended. So God hasn't died, and you ask a non-question.

If God died that day, then Nietzsche was right. ;)

DR

[J. Arthur Hastur]

BUT the flesh 'version' of him, is still him, and if it isn't the Bible needs to explain this, or God does. Why would God do something so unfathomably complicated to meet such a simple end? If God wanted to forgive us our sins, then he can do it, without killing anyone.

I'm reminded of Occam's Razor.

[J. Arthur Hastur]

BUT the flesh 'version' of him, is still him, and if it isn't the Bible needs to explain this, or God does. Why would God do something so unfathomably complicated to meet such a simple end? If God wanted to forgive us our sins, then he can do it, without killing anyone.

I'm reminded of Occam's Razor.

[J. Arthur Hastur]

Uh, that was weird.