So we really need a new investigation?

[Redtail]

I know I've asked this question a few times but since there seem to be a few "truthers"/"CTist" or what ever they want to call themselves, here tonight I thought maybe they would join in.

If this new investigation is so needed and you have so much proof/evidence that the official story/NIST/9/11 commission is wrong, and, there are so many people who agree with you, (25%-86% depending on which poll one happens to be looking at) AND since many of you seem to think that anyone who isn't demanding a new investigation is either, grossly misinformed, and/or, doesn't care about the victims, and/or is a traitor/shill, and/or a myriad of other things...

Why haven't any of you banded together and gone on a mass demonstration/march on Ground Zero or Washington DC? My first image of "mass demonstration/march" was 10,000 people but let's drop that a bit. Let's say 1,000. You have no problem sitting behind your computers playing "infowarrior" but the few of you that go out side seem to be more interested in making movies... to put on the internet... for the "infowarriors".

Sure some of you handout pamphlets and chant every now and again but why no massive march? Then the MSM would have to cover that story right? 1,000 "truthers" in front of the White House demanding the truth! Hell if the MSM DIDN'T cover it and you had video that would give you one hell of an argument.

Or get people to chip in and send 10-15 people to camp out in front of the White House vowing to stay there until a new investigation.

Why hasn't any thing like this happened yet? Are their any plans for anythings like this to happen?

[CHF]

They've tried, Redtail, they've really tried. Several times in fact.

The problem is that every time they make an attempt at a large attention-getting rally they are reminded of just how small a movement they are.

The LTW kids were hoping for 25,000 at GZ this year. They got a few hundred.


Frankly, even a lot of people who have "unanswered questions" about 9/11 really don't care enough about it to gather publicly with the Blackshirt brigade.

[Calcas]

They've tried, Redtail, they've really tried. Several times in fact.

The problem is that every time they make an attempt at a large attention-getting rally they are reminded of just how small a movement they are.

The LTW kids were hoping for 25,000. They got a few hundred.


Frankly, even a lot of people who have "unanswered questions" about 9/11 really don't care enough about it to gather publicly with the Blackshirt brigade.

True.

I also think they're publically ashamed and embarrased of being branded "loons", which seems to be happening more regularly.

[Bell]

Two night ago, while I was at work, I was watching a program on National Geographic. It was about UFO's. At one time, the Roswell incident was covered and they talked about President Clinton getting the sekrit documents declassified. Those documents told that what crashed at Roswell was a spy balloon. And immediatly the CT's cried "See! The gubmint is lying again, covering it up! They still don't aknowledge aliens crashed there!"

That is what I expect to happen when a new investigation again reveals that 19 pissed off Muslims, backed by some other wealthy pissed off Muslims, carried out the 9/11 attacks.

Why bother?

[R.Mackey]

It's been asked over and over and over and over again.

I've replied over and over and over and over again that, to hold a new investigation, we need first to figure out what's wrong with the last one. I can't think of a single person in the Truth Movement who's even understood the last investigation, let alone identified its flaws.

[LastChild]

I know I've asked this question a few times but since there seem to be a few "truthers"/"CTist" or what ever they want to call themselves, here tonight I thought maybe they would join in.

If this new investigation is so needed and you have so much proof/evidence that the official story/NIST/9/11 commission is wrong, and, there are so many people who agree with you, (25%-86% depending on which poll one happens to be looking at) AND since many of you seem to think that anyone who isn't demanding a new investigation is either, grossly misinformed, and/or, doesn't care about the victims, and/or is a traitor/shill, and/or a myriad of other things...

Why haven't any of you banded together and gone on a mass demonstration/march on Ground Zero or Washington DC? My first image of "mass demonstration/march" was 10,000 people but let's drop that a bit. Let's say 1,000. You have no problem sitting behind your computers playing "infowarrior" but the few of you that go out side seem to be more interested in making movies... to put on the internet... for the "infowarriors".

Sure some of you handout pamphlets and chant every now and again but why no massive march? Then the MSM would have to cover that story right? 1,000 "truthers" in front of the White House demanding the truth! Hell if the MSM DIDN'T cover it and you had video that would give you one hell of an argument.

Or get people to chip in and send 10-15 people to camp out in front of the White House vowing to stay there until a new investigation.

Why hasn't any thing like this happened yet? Are their any plans for anythings like this to happen?

Because like your hair marching is so 1969. This is the age of the internet where so many more people can be reached. It doesn't get covered by the news anyway. Now if we had a march to free Paris Hilton when she got locked up that would have got primetime. If Watergate happened today it would never progress to the President resigning. For one thing Nixon didn’t get caught screwing anyone. Still the Nixon administration had nothing on these crooks of today. Unfortunately our journalists of today can't hold a candle to the ones of the past. They're too afraid of losing their White House press pass.

Now if you are insinuating no one of any real numbers believe in the truth movement then who is it you are all trying to debunk everyday here? A handful of people?

[Calcas]

Now if you are insinuating no one of any real numbers believe in the truth movement then who is it you are all trying to debunk everyday here? A handful of people?

No one is insinuating that.

We know there are loons out there.

But, it's a good thing your numbers are so tiny that we aren't worried about the future of our Country/society.

Darwinism rules.

[Redtail]

Because like your hair marching is so 1969. This is the age of the internet where so many more people can be reached.

So more people are online than have TV, read news papers, and listen to the radio?


It doesn't get covered by the news anyway. Now if we had a march to free Paris Hilton when she got locked up that would have got primetime. If Watergate happened today it would never progress to the President resigning.You're right. I can't recall a single political figure stepping down because of scandal in recent... Oh, wait.


For one thing Nixon didn’t get caught screwing anyone. Still the Nixon administration had nothing on these crooks of today. Unfortunately our journalists of today can't hold a candle to the ones of the past. They're too afraid of losing their White House press pass. Yes none of the reporters say a bad word about the Bush admin.

Now if you are insinuating no one of any real numbers believe in the truth movement then who is it you are all trying to debunk everyday here? A handful of people?No, I'm insinuating that the folk in the truth movement are either lazy, cowards, speaking out just to be speaking out, just in it for money and/or friends, or a combination of the above.

[LashL]

This is the age of the internet where so many more people can be reached.

Sounds like your answer to Redtail's question is "laziness".

It doesn't get covered by the news anyway.

Make that laziness and apathy.

<snipped> Paris Hilton... Nixon... journalists...>

Make that laziness, apathy, and an abysmal failure to articulate any coherent, rational argument that would justify another investigation.

[LastChild]

So more people are online than have TV, read news papers, and listen to the radio?

I have all those things but the internet beats all of them combined as far as information.

You're right. I can't recall a single political figure stepping down because of scandal in recent... Oh, wait.

For sex scandals because it sells. Especially when you have some bimbo with vacant eyes and breast implants reading it to you off a teleprompter.

Yes none of the reporters say a bad word about the Bush admin.

Even in the rare occasions they might he's got his own 24/7 fox cable news channel to counter it.

No, I'm insinuating that the folk in the truth movement are either lazy, cowards, speaking out just to be speaking out, just in it for money and/or friends, or a combination of the above.

Who isn't lazy these days and what do they march for? Who marches? Buying into the 9/11 commission as anything more then a whitewash is intellectually lazy

[Calcas]

Who isn't lazy these days and what do they march for? Who marches? Buying into the 9/11 commission as anything more then a whitewash is intellectually lazy

In case you missed my take earlier.

"I also think they're publically ashamed and embarrased of being branded "loons", which seems to be happening more regularly."

[ConspiRaider]

Because like your hair marching is so 1969. This is the age of the internet where so many more people can be reached. It doesn't get covered by the news anyway. Now if we had a march to free Paris Hilton when she got locked up that would have got primetime. If Watergate happened today it would never progress to the President resigning. For one thing Nixon didn’t get caught screwing anyone. Still the Nixon administration had nothing on these crooks of today. Unfortunately our journalists of today can't hold a candle to the ones of the past. They're too afraid of losing their White House press pass.

Now if you are insinuating no one of any real numbers believe in the truth movement then who is it you are all trying to debunk everyday here? A handful of people?
No dude - a march would be positively GROOVY, man!

Remember this?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12573992/

It had an effect. People paid attention. Congress perked up their ears, Bush was forced to acknowledge and comment and speechify on immigration, whether he wanted to or not.

25% of the American people is 75 million. And that's the low estimate of how many of us Yanks "know" that something is hinky concerning 9/11 and requires a new investigation. Couldn't you just get ONE out of 75 of that low estimate to march and demonstrate your passion and commitment? There's your ONE MILLION MARCHERS!!! I'll betcha even the fool Rush Limbaugh would be forced to acknowledge! It'd be a stone cold groove, man! March! March your little twoofer tushes off!

[Redtail]

I have all those things but the internet beats all of them combined as far as information.

So those that don't have it aren't worthy of the "truth"? My students come to class with a lot of information much of it pointless (Outside of a game show) and/or wrong.



For sex scandals because it sells. Especially when you have some bimbo with vacant eyes and breast implants reading it to you off a teleprompter.Just sex scandals? Are you sure?



Even in the rare occasions they might he's got his own 24/7 fox cable news channel to counter it.
RARE!?!??! Do you even watch the news?


Who isn't lazy these days and what do they march for? Who marches?...Are you serious?... Ok um
2003
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=2003+peace+marches&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

2004
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&q=2004+peace+marches&btnG=Search+Images

2005
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&q=2005+peace+marches&btnG=Search+Images

Do I have to continue with the peace marches?

How about the Michael Vick protests? Keep in mind this was about DOGS!
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=michael+vick+protest&spell=1

As for camping out to protest.
http://geocities.com/tentsity/

So it looks like the truth movement is lazy. Why?

Buying into the 9/11 commission as anything more then a whitewash is intellectually lazyBut you can't leave the house to say so and get even 1,000 like minded people to say the same? Wow....

[beachnut]

If Watergate happened today it would never progress to the President resigning. For one thing Nixon didn’t get caught screwing anyone. Still the Nixon administration had nothing on these crooks of today.

Gee, you are wrong; 2 reporters got a Pulitzer Prize for Watergate; your truth movment only gets a stundie prize. NIXON was covering up real go to prison stuff. Wrong again. You are wrong on real conspiracies, and wrong on your made up conspiracies on 9/11.

Wrong on real stuff, wrong on your 9/11 stuff.

[CHF]

Because like your hair marching is so 1969. This is the age of the internet where so many more people can be reached.

Apparently the downside to this age of the internet is that rather than make themselves visible in the streets, twoofers sit around on their computers all day blabbering about how big the TM is.

You talk about your strength in numbers yet you never actually do anything with it.

Now ask yourself, LC: is that approach likely to accomplish anything?

[Thunder]

Its as simple as this. 9-11 Truthers are cowards.

Can you imagine all those people who were against the Vietnam war staying home? All those people demanding the end to segregation and racism..and not taking to the streets?

According to the 9-11 Truthers, our own governmant killed 3,000 people and are seeking to install martial law and the end of freedom. Legitimate polls say atleast 10% of the American people think 9-11 was an inside job.

And what do these "patriots" do? Do they gather in the thousands in DC? Do they shut down Broadway, with even 10,000 people? (10% of the USA is 3 million people)

No. They stay home, they yell and scream on internet forums, and then go about their day.

The marches for vegan rallies, pro-animal rights rallies, and pro-transexual rallies, have a larger turn out then 9-11 Truther rallies.

And how do they explain this? "They are afraid of being arrested by the NWO".

In reality, they are just cowards, unwilling and too lazy to stand up for what they believe in.

Their beliefs are rediculous, but I would at least respect them if they would stand up and be counted. But they cant even do that.

As far as political movemants go, the 9-11 Truth movemant is the most cowardly in history.

[JimBenArm]

Now, now! They would march, but their moms are busy picking up Suzy from soccer practice, and they can't get there until after that.
Then they'll show! But only until 7:30, because they have class in the morning.

[ZenFountain]

I was thinking about this the other day while watching Alex Jones' latest tirade. If they gave Jones, or whoever else purports to be the leader of the underground resistance, unlimited access to 9/11 related video and government documents, the others would simply brand them a pawn in the game and move on. Does anyone know of a die hard truther that has reversed course or at least conceded past follies?

[negativ]

For sex scandals because it sells. Especially when you have some bimbo with vacant eyes and breast implants reading it to you off a teleprompter.

Keith Olberman has implants? I guess one really DOES learn something new every day.

[CHF]

Does anyone know of a die hard truther that has reversed course or at least conceded past follies?

Welcome to the forum, Zen!

You'll never see a die hard jump ship. 9/11 twoof, after all, is the religion that gives their life meaning.

However, lots of people with questions about 9/11 have abandoned ship upon realizing there are in fact answers to those questions.

[fezzic]

I think that the hardcore CTers have tremendous faith in their beliefs. Everything that is presented to them gets filtered through that belief. That faith sustains them in their "crusade".

I suppose the (was it) X-Files line, "The truth is out there" is what they live by. They just haven't found it yet.

:rolleyes:

[ConspiRaider]

Its as simple as this. 9-11 Truthers are cowards.

Can you imagine all those people who were against the Vietnam war staying home? All those people demanding the end to segregation and racism..and not taking to the streets?

According to the 9-11 Truthers, our own governmant killed 3,000 people and are seeking to install martial law and the end of freedom. Legitimate polls say atleast 10% of the American people think 9-11 was an inside job.

And what do these "patriots" do? Do they gather in the thousands in DC? Do they shut down Broadway, with even 10,000 people? (10% of the USA is 30 million people)

No. They stay home, they yell and scream on internet forums, and then go about their day.

The marches for vegan rallies, pro-animal rights rallies, and pro-transexual rallies, have a larger turn out then 9-11 Truther rallies.

And how do they explain this? "They are afraid of being arrested by the NWO".

In reality, they are just cowards, unwilling and too lazy to stand up for what they believe in.

Their beliefs are rediculous, but I would at least respect them if they would stand up and be counted. But they cant even do that.

As far as political movemants go, the 9-11 Truth movemant is the most cowardly in history.
Just fixed that one thing. Otherwise - A+ stuff!!!!!

[T.A.M.]

Welcome to the forum Zen. With a username like yours, don't be surprised if a few people SMACK you around a little...

TAM;)

[CHF]

They stay home, they yell and scream on internet forums, and then go about their day.

Which begs the question: just how seriously do they take their own nonsense?

Can you imagine knowing that your own government massacred 3,000 of its citizens and then pretty much just going about your daily life?

[LastChild]

No, I'm insinuating that the folk in the truth movement are either lazy, cowards, speaking out just to be speaking out, just in it for money and/or friends, or a combination of the above.

I can come up with just as many pictures of 9/11 truth marches but that doesn't mean it does any good especially when the press won't cover it. And that goes for any other kind of protest like the ones against the war or the ones to impeach or environmental. Marches don't get the kind of coverage like they use to especially on certain issues.. And how often should people have to protest? One a year, a month, everyday?

http://baltimore.indymedia.org/usermedia/image/7/March20Protest.jpg

http://www.communitycurrency.org/march05.jpg

http://www.infowars.net/pictures/Oct06/161006protest2.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070318/i/r1863868054.jpg

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/005.jpg/005-full;init:.jpg

[Redtail]

I can come up with just as many pictures of 9/11 truth marches but that doesn't mean it does any good especially when the press won't cover it.

1. No you can't.
2. The pictures with the 9/11 "truth" signs, were they all 9/11 truthers or just a few truthers with was protesters?

And that goes for any other kind of protest like the ones against the war or the ones to impeach or environmental. Marches don't get the kind of coverage like they use to especially on certain issues.So all of the CNN, MSNBC, and even (gasp!) Fox coverage was fake?

And how often should people have to protest? One a year, a month, everyday?

http://baltimore.indymedia.org/usermedia/image/7/March20Protest.jpg

http://www.communitycurrency.org/march05.jpg

http://www.infowars.net/pictures/Oct06/161006protest2.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070318/i/r1863868054.jpg

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/005.jpg/005-full;init:.jpgI dunno. Let's see, at best the government knew the attacks were coming and did nothing to stop them resulting in the deaths of about 3,000 people or at worst the government was involved in the murder of about 3,000 people. How much time away from home are those lives worth to you?

ETA: Of course there are the Silent Sentinels, Tent city, (which I mentioned above) The Bus boycotts, sit in movement, etc... Those lasted every day for months or years. But why do that when you can be comfortable?

[CHF]

So why can't truther rallies draw as many people as, say, a Cleveland Indians home game on a rainy Monday night in the 1980s?

[Hokulele]

So why can't truther rallies draw as many people as, say, a Cleveland Indians home game on a rainy Monday night in the 1980s?


You can get beer at the Indians game.

[LastChild]

1. No you can't.
2. The pictures with the 9/11 "truth" signs, were they all 9/11 truthers or just a few truthers with was protesters?

Your pictures aren't showing any more people then the 9/11 ones. You got one picture of five friggin tents. They're all lame 9/11 included. I've seen more people at Howard Stern events.

So all of the CNN, MSNBC, and even (gasp!) Fox coverage was fake?

I must of missed it inbetween the Paris Hilton and Britney Spears stories.

I dunno. Let's see, at best the government knew the attacks were coming and did nothing to stop them resulting in the deaths of about 3,000 people or at worst the government was involved in the murder of about 3,000 people. How much time away from home are those lives worth to you?

They did plenty of times and I'm sure some still will 7 years later. Was anyone protesting and marching about something like the Kennedy assassination 6 years after it happened?

ETA: Of course there are the Silent Sentinels, Tent city, (which I mentioned above) The Bus boycotts, sit in movement, etc... Those lasted every day for months or years. But why do that when you can be comfortable?

Yeah I mentioned the tents too. So what? Did it work?

[CHF]

LastChild,

What's been the biggest truther rally thus far? How many people attended? How does that number compare with, say, a stamp-collecting convention?

[Coffee]

This is the age of the internet where so many more people can be reached.

Is the internet the truther's chosen battleground? If so then it's a poor choice. Truther junk is lost among all the other crap on the internet. Besides that most people would rather spend their time on the web looking at porn than reading goofy speculations from truthers.


It doesn't get covered by the news anyway. Now if we had a march to free Paris Hilton when she got locked up that would have got primetime. If Watergate happened today it would never progress to the President resigning. For one thing Nixon didn’t get caught screwing anyone. Still the Nixon administration had nothing on these crooks of today. Unfortunately our journalists of today can't hold a candle to the ones of the past. They're too afraid of losing their White House press pass.

So the media is to blame for the ineffectiveness of the truther movement? It's sad that you blame the media for your weakness and lack of effectiveness. The truther movement has had years to do something and it has accomplished NOTHING.

Now if you are insinuating no one of any real numbers believe in the truth movement then who is it you are all trying to debunk everyday here? A handful of people?

Even if the truther movement was a large group of people, it would be large group of people accomplishing nothing.

[CHF]

It's worth noting that the media outlet that devotes the most attention to the twoofers is FOX News!!!

Now why would the most pro-Bush network in the world give the TM so much air time?

I'm guessing it has something to do with making the anti-Bush crowd appear completely insane by association.

[Jonnyclueless]

I see last child included a picture of the anti-war rally that the Wooers joined, threw up a couple of their signs and pretended it was a 9/11 rally. How intellectually honest of you child.

[CHF]

I see last child included a picture of the anti-war rally that the Wooers joined, threw up a couple of their signs and pretended it was a 9/11 rally. How intellectually honest of you child.

Yeah that's their new tactic now.

It's their way of admitting their cause can't draw flies.

[R.Mackey]

LastChild,

What's been the biggest truther rally thus far? How many people attended? How does that number compare with, say, a stamp-collecting convention?

Reasonable questions.

The era of the Big March is not over at all. The Orange Revolution comes to mind immediately. It can be a powerful thing. I've written (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1964894#post1964894) before (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2298566#post2298566) about the benefits of organized, peaceful demonstrations, both to society and to the participants.

Heck, I've attended poultry shows five times the size of the biggest-ever Truther rally. Probably drew more money, too.

[Redtail]

Your pictures aren't showing any more people then the 9/11 ones. You got one picture of five friggin tents. They're all lame 9/11 included. I've seen more people at Howard Stern events.

Lemme guess, you just click the link to google images and didn't read anything about the numbers? You might want to read a bit on the numbers for the peace protests. Yes there are 5 tents that's... let's see 1,2,3,4,5 more than truther tents!



I must of missed it inbetween the Paris Hilton and Britney Spears stories.

I
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16841070/

guess
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/24/AR2005092400852.html

you
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21443775/

did.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20824478/

Maybe
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,144970,00.html

you
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Jan27/0,4670,IraqProtestVignettes,00.html

should
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Jan26/0,4670,IraqProtest,00.html

watch?
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/09/26/dc.protests/









They did plenty of times and I'm sure some still will 7 years later. Was anyone protesting and marching about something like the Kennedy assassination 6 years after it happened?

I don't know. How many people died in the Kennedy assassination? How many people died after? Who did we blame for the assassination based on false evidence and wage war on?



Yeah I mentioned the tents too. So what? Did it work?

Yes. Cling to those tents because they are the only ones who haven't achieved their goal yet! Why did you leave out the others?

[kookbreaker]

Sounds like your answer to Redtail's question is "laziness".



Make that laziness and apathy.



Make that laziness, apathy, and an abysmal failure to articulate any coherent, rational argument that would justify another investigation.

"Smoking marihuana is more fun than drinking beer,
But a friend of ours was captured and they gave him thirty years
Maybe we should raise our voices, ask somebody why
But demonstrations are a drag, besides we're much too high
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends"

Phil Ochs, Small Circle of Friends

[kookbreaker]

You can get beer at the Indians game.

And look what happens! (http://www.thephatphree.com/features.asp?StoryID=3986&SectionID=2)

:D

[OneShotKi11]

Im not sure if i believe what most 9/11 truthers believe on the topic but i do know that there was some foreknowledge of the attacks and tons of CIA influence on Al qaeda.

I feel there should be a large investigation into that more so then if there were bombs in every floor of the towers!

[Disbelief]

Im not sure if i believe what most 9/11 truthers believe on the topic but i do know that there was some foreknowledge of the attacks and tons of CIA influence on Al qaeda.

I feel there should be a large investigation into that more so then if there were bombs in every floor of the towers!

If you know there was foreknowledge, why did you say this:

As of right now i have almost no stance on the subject and just wish to browse for more sensible information about it as well as join in debates with topics other the 9/11 truth.
Basically im just here to be more informed and meet like minded people

Obviously, you have a stance as you just stated. Care to start a different thread and trot out some evidence?

[OneShotKi11]

Are you actually going to debate as to weather or not there was information warning of terror attacks on the UNited States before 9/11???

Or do you want to debate CIA's influence on Al qaeda, and or there use of Al qaeda many times before 9/11 to help with wars in other countries?
Do you deny the CIA and Al qaeda ever worked together?
Do you deny there were terror threats before 9/11that the CIA was informed about?
That to me would be stupid to say....

Also i would like for you to repeat to me my stance on 9/11, and tell me if i believe if it was an inside job or not. You seem to have stated that i have clearly chosen one (a stance) so i would like for you to repeat it so that i may know my own stance for i am confused on the topic.
Tell me do i believe it was an inside job?
Tell me if i believe it was done by Muslim terrorists?
It would be of great help to me seeing as your trying to be a smartass and give me a stance based on what i have posted above.

You seem to be the type who likes to jerk around forums and start arguments on topics you feel your very knowlegible on. So when you see your topic brought up you think nows your time to shine with all that information you have stored on your little hardrive. Lets not try to impress people to hard because you might get caught making stupid claims and accusations like you already have.
Dont worry there will be a time a place for you to show off all your petty knowledge one day, it just wont be with me!

[Disbelief]

Are you actually going to debate as to weather or not there was information warning of terror attacks on the UNited States before 9/11???

Yes, especially when you have hindsight and can piece together the information.


Or do you want to debate CIA's influence on Al qaeda, and or there use of Al qaeda many times before 9/11 to help with wars in other countries?

Source? The CIA used Al Qaeda to start wars in other countries many times? Really?

Do you deny the CIA and Al qaeda ever worked together?

How does this mean anything in regards to 9/11.

Do you deny there were terror threats before 9/11that the CIA was informed about?
That to me would be stupid to say....

So, what threats to act on? Was there only one?

Also i would like for you to repeat to me my stance on 9/11, and tell me if i believe if it was an inside job or not. You seem to have stated that i have clearly chosen one (a stance) so i would like for you to repeat it so that i may know my own stance for i am confused on the topic.
Tell me do i believe it was an inside job?
Tell me if i believe it was done by Muslim terrorists?

Why should I tell you you have a stance, when you stated that you knew there was foreknowledge and the CIA was involved. You repeated this claim in your response.

It would be of great help to me seeing as your trying to be a smartass and give me a stance based on what i have posted above.

How else do I give you a stance. You are the one who wrote in, so stand by your claims and start a thread. Better yet, search for the information you seek, as this stuff has been discussed many times.

You seem to be the type who likes to jerk around forums and start arguments on topics you feel your very knowlegible on. So when you see your topic brought up you think nows your time to shine with all that information you have stored on your little hardrive. Lets not try to impress people to hard because you might get caught making stupid claims and accusations like you already have.
Dont worry there will be a time a place for you to show off all your petty knowledge one day, it just wont be with me!
I see, I am not supposed to read anything into your statements, but you can jump to conclusions immediately about me. Bit hypocritical wouldn't you say? I am not here to jerk anyone around or try and impress people who I will never meet. Getting your hackles up when someone questions you does not make for very good discussions.

[NobbyNobbs]

Your pictures aren't showing any more people then the 9/11 ones. You got one picture of five friggin tents. They're all lame 9/11 included. I've seen more people at Howard Stern events.




I can think of a few events that drew a bit of a crowd.

There's this (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://la.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/03/million-man-march.jpg&imgrefurl=http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/151535.php&h=480&w=319&sz=52&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=emRxvTsqsECBsM:&tbnh=129&tbnw=86&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmillion%2Bman%2Bmarch%26svnum%3D10%26 um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN).

And post #5 here (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/25/national/25cnd-march.6.large.jpg&imgrefurl=http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D4731&h=550&w=408&sz=66&hl=en&start=7&um=1&tbnid=A2wHLFA9DZdY6M:&tbnh=133&tbnw=99&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlarge%2Bmarches%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1 %26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN).

And this (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.5280.com/2006/images/march_large.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.talkleft.com/story/2006/05/01/377/77860&h=1008&w=747&sz=478&hl=en&start=14&um=1&tbnid=S_njrlUU98ALgM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlarge%2Bmarches%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1 %26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN).

And this. (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mppeace.org/images/neighborsmarchcrowd.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mppeace.org/events/march.htm&h=473&w=1800&sz=207&hl=en&start=18&um=1&tbnid=HjMcOqgJVIj_iM:&tbnh=39&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlarge%2Bmarches%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1 %26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN)

Now...how many tents did you say you have?

[beachnut]

Im not sure if i believe what most 9/11 truthers believe on the topic but i do know that there was some foreknowledge of the attacks and tons of CIA influence on Al qaeda.

I feel there should be a large investigation into that more so then if there were bombs in every floor of the towers!
no bomb anywhere on 9/11. Just planes.

[beachnut]

Are you actually going to debate as to weather or not there was information warning of terror attacks on the UNited States before 9/11???

Or do you want to debate CIA's influence on Al qaeda, and or there use of Al qaeda many times before 9/11 to help with wars in other countries?
Do you deny the CIA and Al qaeda ever worked together?
Do you deny there were terror threats before 9/11that the CIA was informed about?
That to me would be stupid to say....

Also i would like for you to repeat to me my stance on 9/11, and tell me if i believe if it was an inside job or not. You seem to have stated that i have clearly chosen one (a stance) so i would like for you to repeat it so that i may know my own stance for i am confused on the topic.
Tell me do i believe it was an inside job?
Tell me if i believe it was done by Muslim terrorists?
It would be of great help to me seeing as your trying to be a smartass and give me a stance based on what i have posted above.

You seem to be the type who likes to jerk around forums and start arguments on topics you feel your very knowlegible on. So when you see your topic brought up you think nows your time to shine with all that information you have stored on your little hardrive. Lets not try to impress people to hard because you might get caught making stupid claims and accusations like you already have.
Dont worry there will be a time a place for you to show off all your petty knowledge one day, it just wont be with me!
Please give all the evidence you have that the CIA and the terrorist worked together on 9/11. All the aspects of planning, and execution that were CIA involved. Sources, dates, and other facts please. Or give the same to support what ever you are trying to say, what ever, related to the OP if you want.

Try to tie your BS into a single coherent plot, story, plan, what every you have.

Either you have sources and can tie your BS statements into why it has something, anything, to do with 9/11 events.

You so far just talk, no specifics, just hearsay bs junk. (btw, that is your stance) So bring in a few tons of this stuff, you said tons of CIA influence on Al qaeda; so a few thousand sources are available to you, produce lots of them.

[defaultdotxbe]

someone tell these guys they "so 1969" and should hit the internet instead (http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2007/09/25/military_trucks_at_myanmars_shwedagon_pagoda/?p1=MEWell_Pos1)

[Dave_46]

LastChild,

What's been the biggest truther rally thus far? How many people attended? How does that number compare with, say, a stamp-collecting convention?

I've just got home from visiting a local model railway exhibition. There were about 300 cars in the car parks, with a steady turnover. Allowing for people arriving by public transport, I'd estimate 500 minimum addendees (max 800? 900?), and we all had to pay £3.50 ($7) to get in. How does that compare with a cospiracy fantacist meeting?

Dave

[OneShotKi11]

I said "SOME" Foreknowledge of the attacks and you took it as me stating they knew planes were going to be hijacked and crashed into towers.
That your stupid misinterpretation of the word "some" so that you could start a debate with someone on a topic Edit for civility

YOu also took me saying that the CIA had "influence" on Al qaeda as me saying that they put them on the planes, and controlled them for the terrorists as they crashed them from a control tower.

You did this so that you can jump into a debate with someone and show off all your manly knowledge on the topic. Thats the reason you read my post then jumped and pasted the post i made in "New Members" (Loser) section over here. You did this so that you can quickly start a debate on the subject and try to make another supposed 9/11 truther look stupid!

The way these things get out of hand is by other morons hearing see'ing your posts getting al heated up about them because they believe exactly what you do then replying to the stupid OneShotKi11 kid before they even know what they are arguing about. Before they even know my stance on it they just firgure what i believe by reading your post.
Next thing you know a ton of morons jumping on my back making claims i never denied. Edit for civility for i know many wont read enough back to understand i dont really have a stance on 9/11 and im not sure what to believe about that day!!!
Edit for civility

[contra]

I said "SOME" Foreknowledge of the attacks and you took it as me stating they knew planes were going to be hijacked and crashed into towers.
That your stupid misinterpretation of the word "some" so that you could start a debate with someone on a topic Edit for civility

YOu also took me saying that the CIA had "influence" on Al qaeda as me saying that they put them on the planes, and controlled them for the terrorists as they crashed them from a control tower.

You did this so that you can jump into a debate with someone and show off all your manly knowledge on the topic. Thats the reason you read my post then jumped and pasted the post i made in "New Members" (Loser) section over here. You did this so that you can quickly start a debate on the subject and try to make another supposed 9/11 truther look stupid!

The way these things get out of hand is by other morons hearing see'ing your posts getting al heated up about them because they believe exactly what you do then replying to the stupid OneShotKi11 kid before they even know what they are arguing about. Before they even know my stance on it they just firgure what i believe by reading your post.
Next thing you know a ton of morons jumping on my back making claims i never denied. Edit for civility for i know many wont read enough back to understand i dont really have a stance on 9/11 and im not sure what to believe about that day!!!
Edit for civility

Well you have been asked for your beliefs... and you said things like 'some foreknowledge', well the word some is open to interpretation. Some could be from knowing how they were gonig to do it and where, down to Al Queda at some point said they wanted to attack Americans. That you said it was relevent shows that you think they could have done something, and it was not just a vague threat out in the world.

The word some is not clear in how much they knew. We simple want to know how much they knew.

And the same goes for the rest of your post (other than the insults). While you say you don't have a position, when people ask you for what you think you get defensive; very defensive.

But most people here jump on questions bue to half the conspiracy theorists here say that are asking questions, and while they do, they don't listen to the answers, then say they win and that the question was never addressed. And yet they don't appreciate the same treatment back.

Try again, be civil, stop insulting people, when if you don't agree with them and think they are misinterpreting you. Remember words have many interpretations, and the emotion and clarity that comes from talking is totally lost on the net

[negativ]

Dont worry there will be a time a place for you to show off all your petty knowledge one day, it just wont be with me!

Sweet! I haven't seen a "soon the Real Truth will come out and all you shills will pay" statement in a long time.

You keep it crazy, San Diego.

[Bell]

I said "SOME" Foreknowledge of the attacks and you took it as me stating they knew planes were going to be hijacked and crashed into towers.
That your stupid misinterpretation of the word "some" so that you could start a debate with someone on a topic Edit for civility

YOu also took me saying that the CIA had "influence" on Al qaeda as me saying that they put them on the planes, and controlled them for the terrorists as they crashed them from a control tower.

You did this so that you can jump into a debate with someone and show off all your manly knowledge on the topic. Thats the reason you read my post then jumped and pasted the post i made in "New Members" (Loser) section over here. You did this so that you can quickly start a debate on the subject and try to make another supposed 9/11 truther look stupid!

The way these things get out of hand is by other morons hearing see'ing your posts getting al heated up about them because they believe exactly what you do then replying to the stupid OneShotKi11 kid before they even know what they are arguing about. Before they even know my stance on it they just firgure what i believe by reading your post.
Next thing you know a ton of morons jumping on my back making claims i never denied. Edit for civility for i know many wont read enough back to understand i dont really have a stance on 9/11 and im not sure what to believe about that day!!!
Edit for civility

That's rich.

Want some cheese with your whine?

[apathoid]

OneShotKi11, a friendly suggestion. Read your Membership Agreement (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=25744) and heed it, otherwise your stay here will be very short.

[Disbelief]

OneShot, it appears you have your panties in a bunch from me quoting your words. You seem a bit defensive, so I will refrain from engaging you until/unless you can be civil. If you do not want to ask the specific questions addressed to you, just say so.

[Redtail]

Im not sure if i believe what most 9/11 truthers believe on the topic but i do know that there was some foreknowledge of the attacks and tons of CIA influence on Al qaeda.

I feel there should be a large investigation into that more so then if there were bombs in every floor of the towers!

Ok. Do you feel that a large public demonstration is pointless in getting this new investigation?

[OneShotKi11]

I get defensive because nobody actually asked me what i believed, you all assumed.

Yes the word "some" is very open to interpretation this is correct and why i used it. I like
to test communities as much as i can when i first join them to see there thought patterns.

You guys took the word "Some" stated it was open it was open to interpretation and then filled it with OneShot believes 9/11 was an inside job, but did i actually say thats what i thought? Or was that what you wanted me to say so you could debate another dumb truther. Not trying to insult people just want to make you aware of how fast people are trying to jump on this topic!

As i read further i see more and more replies that shouldnt have come about if people didnt like interpreting words there own selfish way. You yourself stated that the word "Some" was open to interpretation and you did so interpret it your own way. I am just pointing out that thats not the best way to go about things, thats all. For i did say i have really no stance on the issue because i am in limbo on the topic have heard good arguments from both sides. Yet even though i made this statement you took the word and translated in a way you seen fit to flame another person who might disagree with you.

Like i stated in another thread people with your same thought patterns will enter this thread and have no clue what was being said, they will only read a few quoted messages from me interpret it the way they want to and the way all the others are, and make stupid comments towards me next, such as some above have done.....

YOu guys are the defensive ones ready to jump on anyone who might not believe what you do. I am merely pointing out a flaw in all of your interpretations. Yet Disbelief keeps talking to me like i dont want to answer his questions, which is actually totally true. Why? Because the questions shouldnt be Aimed at me because i never stated i believe 9/11 was an inside job.

Example:
"I originally stated that the CIA has influence on Al qaeda"
Dibelief disagreed with my statement and asked for proof...

I was a little confused and asked...
"Do you deny the CIA and Al qaeda ever worked together?"

Disbeliefs response was:
"How does this mean anything in regards to 9/11."

Who said i was talking in regards to 9/11?
He just assumed things that he shouldnt have and thats all. Now you guys can continue to make false claims of me acting defensively about the 9/11 topic, when i am only acting defensively because poeple are placing words in my mouth for there own pleasure.

I am just stating the situation and how people take things way out of hand when they see any chance to debate there logic against others, especially infront of a crowd that supports them. Even when there is no such debate going on they flip the topic just to show off what they know. I guess its an ego trip for the intelligent!

If no one is getting my point by now then forget it it im not arguing it any further. Just call me an idiot for about 2 more pages and we will all move on with life!

[OneShotKi11]

Ok. Do you feel that a large public demonstration is pointless in getting this new investigation?

Yes probably so! Since when does government even acknowledge big demonstrations? Now a days they just get tear gased out...lolz

Demonstrations now a days are stupid because people who claim there passionate about a topic on the internet are just possers. They talk a big game on forums but when it comes to actually getting out and doing something they are just as useless as someone who believes in the total opposite of them.

I am just as guilty sometimes when it comes to things like this and is why i want to atleast try and go out and do some work in favor of my Fav Candidate for Prez this year!

[Hokulele]

I get defensive because nobody actually asked me what i believed, you all assumed.

<snip>

Example:
"I originally stated that the CIA has influence on Al qaeda"
Dibelief disagreed with my statement and asked for proof...

I was a little confused and asked...
"Do you deny the CIA and Al qaeda ever worked together?"

Disbeliefs response was:
"How does this mean anything in regards to 9/11."

Who said i was talking in regards to 9/11?

<snip>



Interesting that you simply clipped the "Do you deny the CIA and Al qaeda ever worked together?" out of your response to Disbelief's question to make it sound like Disbelief was leaping to a conclusion.

Here is your snip in context.

Or do you want to debate CIA's influence on Al qaeda, and or there use of Al qaeda many times before 9/11 to help with wars in other countries?
Do you deny the CIA and Al qaeda ever worked together?
Do you deny there were terror threats before 9/11that the CIA was informed about?
That to me would be stupid to say....

I say you were "talking in regards to 9/11" and that you were defensive right from the start, even before you started hurling insults. If you want to try and claim the high ground in this debate, I suggest you look back over the posts and try to address the points, rather than making assumptions about tone and context.

[beachnut]

Is not having a stand on 9/11, or 9/11 truth, worse than being a truther supporting 9/11 truth?


tons of CIA influence on Al qaeda

; so a few thousand sources are available to you, produce lots of them. (a few will do)

[technoextreme]

Yes probably so! Since when does government even acknowledge big demonstrations? Now a days they just get tear gased out...lolz
Since when has there been any big demonstrations lately? Ooo wait there hasn't been... lolz.

[OneShotKi11]

The only thing i mention was that they were used before 9/11.
9/11 was reference date not the topic of that sentence read a little bit closer into whats actually being said in that sentence.
Or am i wrong?
Was 9/11 in that sentence not used as reference point in time? For i am not sure if the CIA has done anything with them since 9/11 but i have heard of many occasions where they did before hand. Nice try though!

[Disbelief]

I am just stating the situation and how people take things way out of hand when they see any chance to debate there logic against others, especially infront of a crowd that supports them. Even when there is no such debate going on they flip the topic just to show off what they know. I guess its an ego trip for the intelligent!

If no one is getting my point by now then forget it it im not arguing it any further. Just call me an idiot for about 2 more pages and we will all move on with life!

Like I said before, this is no ego trip for me so your argument is crap. I asked you specific questions which you refuse to answer. I did not do anything, but quote your own statements.

I'm also glad that you think I am capable of controlling people's thoughts. Just by me asking you questions, I was able to get everyone else to "attack" you without thinking for themselves. Do you really think people here do not read what is written? Why do you think they would base their conclusions of what you mean based off my response instead of your own?

[Hokulele]

The only thing i mention was that they were used before 9/11.
9/11 was reference date not the topic of that sentence read a little bit closer into whats actually being said in that sentence.
Or am i wrong?
Was 9/11 in that sentence not used as reference point in time? For i am not sure if the CIA has done anything with them since 9/11 but i have heard of many occasions where they did before hand. Nice try though!


OK, we can do this the hard way. Here is your very first post in this thread, the one to which Disbelief responded (bolding mine).

Im not sure if i believe what most 9/11 truthers believe on the topic but i do know that there was some foreknowledge of the attacks and tons of CIA influence on Al qaeda.

I feel there should be a large investigation into that more so then if there were bombs in every floor of the towers!


If the phrases "the attacks" and "bombs in every floor of the towers" refer to some other terrorist attack, it would help if you would reference it directly rather than indirectly. Considering this entire thread is about 9/11, why would anyone assume you are talking about something else?

Since you appear to be more interested in talking about your perceived unfair treatment rather than any potential future investigation, you may want to take it to a new thread.

[/ derail]

[Jonnyclueless]

Who said i was talking in regards to 9/11?



Perhaps you might not have noticed the topic of discussion.

[Redtail]

Yes probably so! Since when does government even acknowledge big demonstrations? Now a days they just get tear gased out...lolz
I haven't seen to many demonstrations gassed out lately at least not in America. Also they tend to pay attention in election years.

Demonstrations now a days are stupid because people who claim there passionate about a topic on the internet are just possers. They talk a big game on forums but when it comes to actually getting out and doing something they are just as useless as someone who believes in the total opposite of them.

Some are, but there are those where people are actually trying to get something done.



I am just as guilty sometimes when it comes to things like this and is why i want to atleast try and go out and do some work in favor of my Fav Candidate for Prez this year!
I commend you on that, please do.

[PhantomWolf]

Or do you want to debate CIA's influence on Al qaeda, and or there use of Al qaeda many times before 9/11 to help with wars in other countries?
Do you deny the CIA and Al qaeda ever worked together?
Do you deny there were terror threats before 9/11that the CIA was informed about?
That to me would be stupid to say....

Well you might think it stupid, but I suggest you try doing some research. The CIA and Al Qaeda have never worked together and in fact have been on opposite sides of the chessboard since the CIA learned of Al Qaeda's existance in 1993. Since it returned to Afghanistan shortly after, the CIA spent most of its time there trying to hunt down and kill OBL. Try starting your education on the matter with Steve Coll's 2005 General Non-Fiction Pulitzer Prize (http://www.pulitzer.org/) winning book, Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 (http://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Wars-Afghanistan-Invasion-September/dp/0143034669/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-0424359-4000604?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194226434&sr=1-1). A second very good one to read is Lawrence Wright's 2007 General Non-Fiction Pulitzer Prize winning book The Looming Tower: Al Qaeda and the Road to 9/11 (http://www.amazon.com/Looming-Tower-Qaeda-Road-Vintage/dp/1400030846/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-0424359-4000604?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194226686&sr=1-1)

[Dave Rogers]

I've just got home from visiting a local model railway exhibition. There were about 300 cars in the car parks, with a steady turnover. Allowing for people arriving by public transport, I'd estimate 500 minimum addendees (max 800? 900?), and we all had to pay £3.50 ($7) to get in.

Obviously made up by a NWO shill. After all, what are the odds that this forum would have two model railway enthusiasts from the UK, both called Dave?

Dave

[nicepants]

I suppose the (was it) X-Files line, "The truth is out there" is what they live by. They just haven't found it yet.

:rolleyes:

That slogan is used on infowars.com bumper stickers.. ;P

[Belz...]

I have all those things but the internet beats all of them combined as far as information.

Quantity <> quality.

For sex scandals because it sells. Especially when you have some bimbo with vacant eyes and breast implants reading it to you off a teleprompter.

Well, that was a generic, useless statement if ever there was one.

Who isn't lazy these days and what do they march for? Who marches? Buying into the 9/11 commission as anything more then a whitewash is intellectually lazy

Aw, are the numbers too big for you ?

[Belz...]

Im not sure if i believe what most 9/11 truthers believe on the topic but i do know that there was some foreknowledge of the attacks and tons of CIA influence on Al qaeda.

And how do you "know" this ?

Are you actually going to debate as to weather or not there was information warning of terror attacks on the UNited States before 9/11???

"Al Qaeda will attack a target in the US soon."

Okay, now, OneShot. ACT!

for i know many wont read enough back to understand i dont really have a stance on 9/11 and im not sure what to believe about that day!!!

Mayhap you should research the subject, then.

I get defensive because nobody actually asked me what i believed, you all assumed.

So we shouldn't have believed your words and instead asked if that represented your opinions ? That's weird.

I was a little confused and asked...
"Do you deny the CIA and Al qaeda ever worked together?"

Disbeliefs response was:
"How does this mean anything in regards to 9/11."

Who said i was talking in regards to 9/11?

Er... the fact that we're talking about that event.... maybe ?

If no one is getting my point by now then forget it it im not arguing it any further. Just call me an idiot for about 2 more pages and we will all move on with life!

My, my.