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Iamme
4th November 2007, 01:29 PM
This is not really addressed per se. Only usually in a lengthy roundabout sort of way.

In a nutshell, all you have to do is ponder this before falling asleep at night by asking yourself this:
























How did we get here?: The creation (myth) story?, or evolution? Here is the key thing: Either some supreme something or another (advanced aliens) laid us out on some table, like workers making circuit boards at a factory, and we were in some oxygen rich environment while we were quickly being assembled perhaps within minutes, or else our body parts would deteriorate before we could even take a first breath (I may run this by the Jehovah's Witnesses to see how they can explain how life appeared without dying in the making process) - OR - something happened where basic ingredients came together and made the simplest of substances that fits the description of life, and it evolved into more and more complex structures.

Or, is there something else we haven't thought of? Something besides this either/or argument?

We think evolution occured because there is evidence (proof) of the genetic codes contained in lesser species that are in us. But what does that prove, really? It does not prove we had to COME from the lesser specy comon ancestry, does it? All it proves so far to my unschooled mind is that we contain the same stuff, and with more. To go further than that statement is reaching a conclusion that is not validated. It's a presumption.

If the evolutionary tale is correct and there is nothing more to the story whatsoever. That there was no intelligent force behind it,... that tale not only says WE evolved from say an amoeba-like cellular creature, but you can go back and say that the entire UNIVERSE evolved, along with us, from hydrogen gas. That all this happened for no reason, no guidance by any brainy-like force, and it just did it because it perhaps had trillions of chances to experiment. (But ever hear of my Abraham Lincoln in a log cabin wearing a watch argument? :))

But what if the truth is in the middle somewhere? What if ingredients abounded and the conditions were right to make water cycle first, then plants next, then, separately the fish world, then the animal world. And what does that sound like?; the creation story! And THEN there was something halfway between micro and macro evolution that occured where say mice and squirrels evolved from a common ancestor, and emus and ostriches had a common ancestor, and all the cats from tigers to house cats, etc., to where we could cut down on the number of distinct species at creation.

RATHER than believe all of life stemmed from one cell, and forked off in so many diverse ways. What is there about that story that sounds so plausible? Can any of you give me the scientific fact that proves that is what happened?; that we share a common ancestry with poison ivy, or a walking stick? Why would we even believe such a thing as opposed to a creation story?

So this is my project, laying awake at night trying to figure out some logical answer. The two either/or arguments seem lacking, on just their own merits. A lost continent of Atlantis where there was this superior civilization that had vast knowledge that got lost, seems more logical to me, in holding some key.

IMST
4th November 2007, 01:44 PM
RATHER than believe all of life stemmed from one cell, and forked off in so many diverse ways. What is there about that story that sounds so plausible?
because that's where all the evidence lies
Can any of you give me the scientific fact that proves that is what happened?; that we share a common ancestry with poison ivy, or a walking stick?
no single fact proves it, it's that all of biology and earth sciences confirm it. But the entire fossil record is a good starting point
Why would we even believe such a thing as opposed to a creation story?
maybe because the creation stories don't have any evidence at all? Why don't you believe the other fairy tales you were told as a child?

So this is my project, laying awake at night trying to figure out some logical answer. The two either/or arguments seem lacking, on just their own merits. A lost continent of Atlantis where there was this superior civilization that had vast knowledge that got lost, seems more logical to me, in holding some key.
and where did they come from? how is it that I feel like you managed to stumble on something less plausible than creationism?

Hokulele
4th November 2007, 02:24 PM
A lost continent of Atlantis where there was this superior civilization that had vast knowledge that got lost, seems more logical to me, in holding some key.


If they managed to get themselves lost so thoroughly, they probably weren't all that superior, nor did they have vast knowledge.




Or they didn't exist.

cnorman18
4th November 2007, 02:32 PM
(I wonder how many times I've posted this.)

Jews have NEVER taught nor believed that the Creation story in Genesis ought to be taken as literal history. It has NO scientific significance AT ALL.

And Jewish teachings matter on this, because it's OUR BOOK.

For Jews, the best way to find out answers to scientific questions is through...

(drum roll, please)...

SCIENCE.

You may have noticed that Jews are heavily represented in the sciences. This is why.

And as for a fact supporting evolution--how about that the characteristics of every life-form on earth are determined by DNA? Could that be because we're all RELATED?

Geez...

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
4th November 2007, 02:55 PM
We think evolution occured because there is evidence (proof) of the genetic codes contained in lesser species that are in us. But what does that prove, really? It does not prove we had to COME from the lesser specy comon ancestry, does it? All it proves so far to my unschooled mind is that we contain the same stuff, and with more. To go further than that statement is reaching a conclusion that is not validated. It's a presumption.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/4/7/7723/67027

~~ Paul

Mobyseven
4th November 2007, 04:23 PM
I really hate it when people talk about 'lesser life forms'...

fuelair
4th November 2007, 04:49 PM
If they managed to get themselves lost so thoroughly, they probably weren't all that superior, nor did they have vast knowledge.




Or they didn't exist. What if..maybe.. Atlantis was, I don't know.. maybe a story dreamed up by one of those old time philosopher guys to dress up some of his philosophical points or something like that. Could have just been that simple - like Flatland or Paradise Lost or Gulliver's Travels even.

lionking
4th November 2007, 04:59 PM
Here we go with another thousand post thread.

If you want to get to sleep at night, a couple of whiskys would do the trick.

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
4th November 2007, 05:36 PM
Well, a couple of whiskeys and stopping thinking about this sort of crud.

~~ Paul

fuelair
4th November 2007, 06:58 PM
Many IBI posts tend to do that.

Hokulele
4th November 2007, 07:31 PM
What if..maybe.. Atlantis was, I don't know.. maybe a story dreamed up by one of those old time philosopher guys to dress up some of his philosophical points or something like that. Could have just been that simple - like Flatland or Paradise Lost or Gulliver's Travels even.


Hence the last statement in my post you quoted. ;)

TuftedPuffin
4th November 2007, 07:32 PM
We think evolution occured because there is evidence (proof) of the genetic codes contained in lesser species that are in us. But what does that prove, really? It does not prove we had to COME from the lesser specy comon ancestry, does it? All it proves so far to my unschooled mind is that we contain the same stuff, and with more. To go further than that statement is reaching a conclusion that is not validated. It's a presumption.


Indeed, the fact that your brother has very similar DNA to you only proves that you contain roughly the same stuff, not that you two have the same father. To assume that your mom wasn't sleeping around is reaching a conclusion that is not validated. It's a presumption.

Cosmo
4th November 2007, 07:57 PM
All it proves so far to my unschooled mind

There's your problem, dumbo. Go read a flipping science book.

articulett
4th November 2007, 08:00 PM
(I wonder how many times I've posted this.)

Jews have NEVER taught nor believed that the Creation story in Genesis ought to be taken as literal history. It has NO scientific significance AT ALL.

And Jewish teachings matter on this, because it's OUR BOOK.

For Jews, the best way to find out answers to scientific questions is through...

(drum roll, please)...

SCIENCE.

You may have noticed that Jews are heavily represented in the sciences. This is why.

And as for a fact supporting evolution--how about that the characteristics of every life-form on earth are determined by DNA? Could that be because we're all RELATED?

Geez...

Meet Iamme... he starts these kinds of posts all the time... never learns a thing... I imagine he thinks he's spreading gods word... Remember, every woo is sure they have the true woo. What I don't understand is why they hang out on a skeptics forum to preach it.

cnorman18
5th November 2007, 12:38 AM
Meet Iamme... he starts these kinds of posts all the time... never learns a thing... I imagine he thinks he's spreading gods word... Remember, every woo is sure they have the true woo. What I don't understand is why they hang out on a skeptics forum to preach it.

It does seem a peculiar place to look for recruits... Rather like trying to peddle liquor at a Temperance meeting.

Taffer
5th November 2007, 03:17 AM
tl;dr

S**t or get off the can, Iamme. Do you have any evidence for a designer which can be explained just as well without a designer?

Taffer
5th November 2007, 03:22 AM
I really hate it when people talk about 'lesser life forms'...

I hate this as well. :(

YouBelieveWHAT?
5th November 2007, 04:48 AM
Lesser life forms - that's IDiots, isn't it?

fuelair
5th November 2007, 05:55 AM
Hence the last statement in my post you quoted. ;)

I had recognized and was bouncing off that is a response to IBI - that's why I picked yours - it made a good bounce!!:)

fuelair
5th November 2007, 05:59 AM
tl;dr

S**t or get off the can, Iamme. Do you have any evidence for a designer which can be explained just as well without a designer?
Unless I am missing something (always possible) don't you mean "which can't be explained just as well without a designer?)
Since right now, any of it can be explained just as well without a designer.:)