TURKMENISTAN: Baptists to be fined for each Church service they have

[billiefan2000]

http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=130

[diddidit]

Isn't that true of any church service?

Oh, wait, that's titheing. My bad.

[Stimpson J. Cat]

Well, at least they aren't being tortured and murdered. That's what the Christians did to people of other religions, back when they were in power.

Dr. Stupid

[headscratcher4]

For once, I will attempt to give Billie a serious answer and response to one of his postings.

To the extent that it is true -- and I have no reason to doubt that it is, as it sounds like the kind of thing that can and is happening in the world -- it is an outrage. Baptists, or any religious group for that matter, should be free to meet and worship as they choose. They should be free to solicit new members. They shoudl be free to participate in the political process. This is true for Turkmenastan as it is for Washington, D.C. or Mississippi.

It is a great saddness and shame that in this day and age, the regligous and religious beliefs -- regardless of wheterh I or anyone finds them understandable, rational or believable -- can still be persecuted.

And, of course, I suspect that not much will be said or done about condemning this in the west -- save for a few hearty souls in the religous community or Amnesty International types -- because Turkmenastan is far away, most Americans have no idea where it is or who its citiznes are, its history, the fact that it is a "ally" in the war on terrorism, etc.

Now, of course, for the irony meter overload. Historically, of course, Christians have been just as bad a persecuting other religions and their co-religionists as anyone when in charge of the situation.

Billie, remember American history? When the Puritans ran the Massachusetts colony, they chased Roger Williams out because he was doctrinally unsound.

History is repleat with Catholics and Protestants persecuting each other. Both persecuting Jews and Moslims. In short, sad as this story is in this day and age, it isn't uniqe, and my real sadness lies in the fact that -- based on history -- were the baptists in charge of Turkmenastan, they'd be persecuting someone else...it is then nature of the religous beast.

So in the end, I have to ask, Billie, what is your point? If it is that this is bad and sad and wrong. You indeed have a good point. It is all of that. Is it unique? No. Is it worse because it is targeting Christians? I don't see how. In short, it is sad and bad and should be condemned. I fear, however, that your motives in sharing this piece isn't to promote anger at the denile of religious liberty, because I don't think that you are terribly interested in religious liberty -- save for your own absolutist views of what is religious liberty and based upon your underlying belief that your religion and your beliefs are the only and correct ones.

[arcticpenguin]

Of course churches should be taxed on their income and property. To not tax them would be to discriminate against them, and we know that's a bad thing.

[Tormac]

Nice article Billiefan.

Throughout history, whenever religion has been able to grasp secular power, one of the tendency’s that is displayed, is religious intolerance towards other religions.

The Roman Pagans persecuted the Christians; the Christians persecuted other European Pagans, Catholics persecuted Luther and early Protestants, than when Protestants gained control they persecuted Catholics. Buddhists in positions of authority in Medieval China persecuted Taoists.

It is clear that religion must not be given secular power. Once religion has enough secular power, the first thing it does is attack the freedom of religion.

[scribble]

Originally posted by Tormac
It is clear that religion must not be given secular power. Once religion has enough secular power, the first thing it does is attack the freedom of religion. [/B]

If I may -

Amen.

[triadboy]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=130

Is anyone amazed there are Baptists in Turkey? There's no fried chicken or potato salad there. There are no banjos. My god, what is going on in the world?!

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by triadboy


Is anyone amazed there are Baptists in Turkey? There's no fried chicken or potato salad there. There are no banjos. My god, what is going on in the world?! :D


Be nice..

[Max560]

Religious persecution of any sort is a tragedy. One should be free to believe what they want freely and openly.

One tragic example is when they tried to stifle the Prophet H.P. Lovecraft.

Fortunately, he was clever, and was able to publish his first scripture "The Call of Cthulhu" disguised as a "short story".

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by Max560
Religious persecution of any sort is a tragedy. One should be free to believe what they want freely and openly.

One tragic example is when they tried to stifle the Prophet H.P. Lovecraft.

Fortunately, he was clever, and was able to publish his first scripture "The Call of Cthulhu" disguised as a "short story".
The income from which was taxed. The writings of the other great prophets should also be similarly taxed. The government should not discriminate between religions and non-religions.

[Nyarlathotep]

I think this story is a perfect example of why having church and state mixed together is a very, very bad thing. People who are for destrying the barriers between the two in this country should keep in mind that if they are sucessful ,they just might find their particular sect in the minority and thus find theselves in the same situation as the Baptists in Turkmenistan.

[Tormac]

Of course the people who are for weakening the separation of church in state in this country assume that their church is the one that will be embraced.

It’s a good point Nyarlathotep.

I wonder how much support Intelligent Design would get from the creationist community it they thought that Cthulhu might be put forward as the intelligence behind the design.

[hgc]

Originally posted by triadboy


Is anyone amazed there are Baptists in Turkey? There's no fried chicken or potato salad there. There are no banjos. My god, what is going on in the world?! Psst. Turkmenistan ain't the same as Turkey. And they fry all kinds of stuff over there.

[triadboy]

Originally posted by hgc
Psst. Turkmenistan ain't the same as Turkey. And they fry all kinds of stuff over there.

Boy, I'm just screwing up left and right. But they DON'T have banjos! I never heard of a Turkmenistan Hootnanny

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Tormac
Of course the people who are for weakening the separation of church in state in this country assume that their church is the one that will be embraced.

It’s a good point Nyarlathotep.

I wonder how much support Intelligent Design would get from the creationist community it they thought that Cthulhu might be put forward as the intelligence behind the design.

I have often wondered the same thing about proponents of school prayer; how they would feel if they got their way and as a result thousands of school kids whipped out their little prayer rugs and faced mecca, or if the prayer offered before a football game was some sort of Wiccan invocation.

[Tormac]

It would be fun to run for school board, promising to bring prayer back to school and return to Traditional American Values. I am not sure if I could get elected in Blackswamp on just that issue, but that and saving money might be all I would need.

Then for the home coming on opening night I start on our return to traditional American values and begin the sacrifices to Huaxtec Tlazolteotl!

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Tormac
It would be fun to run for school board, promising to bring prayer back to school and return to Traditional American Values. I am not sure if I could get elected in Blackswamp on just that issue, but that and saving money might be all I would need.

Then for the home coming on opening night I start on our return to traditional American values and begin the sacrifices to Huaxtec Tlazolteotl!

And maybe a nice peyote ceremony might be just what the football team needs to get psyched for the big game.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by triadboy


Boy, I'm just screwing up left and right. But they DON'T have banjos! I never heard of a Turkmenistan Hootnanny
The 5-string banjo is an American development, although you will find similar stringed instruments in various old world cultures.

[evildave]

It looks to me like an excellent example of why church and state are separated in the U.S.

If you want religious freedom, keep church and state seperate.

If you want to live under religious oppression, mix religion and state institutions to your heart's content.

The first bloody civil war to be faught will be "which church will rule". So far, it's the Southern Baptists versus, well, any contender.

Maybe the Catholics, as they are the MAJORITY religion in the U.S. Naturally, while the Baptists have some power, they'll need to stop that flow of Catholics from comming up from the southern border. Maybe with tanks.

Then the other petty Christianities can maybe team up for the next round of violence.

All the while, the pogroms to stamp out other religious or non-religious perspectives can be carried out.

This will lead to "bad feelings" among the "poor sports" who'll probably turn to "terrorism" to make themselves heard, since only a small minority of Americans are, in fact Baptist. Then the Holy States of God can crack down on all of those pesky "imaginary" free speech and other civil liberties that so many holy people don't seem to like OTHER people to have.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by Stimpson J. Cat
Well, at least they aren't being tortured and murdered. That's what the Christians did to people of other religions, back when they were in power.

Dr. Stupid

Yep, christians have committed a lot of crimes throughout history. And they continue.