Pah! Arab cavemen with box cutters?

[Undesired Walrus]

I suggest we start a new name for the hijackers, as the 'You are telling me 19 cavemen with box cutters did this? Lol!' was so last week in trutherland. They need something fresh, something original.

How about;

'How can 19 highly trained and intelligent Islamic fundamentalists who were on a mission to God outsmart NORAD when the scramble order was to head overseas, at the same time as turning off their transponders and declaring they had a bomb on board?'

Nah.

[Alferd_Packer]

Isn't NORAD basically in a cave under Cheyenne Mountain?

[Undesired Walrus]

And let's not even go into the killers of Franz Ferdinand. The poison they used on themselves didn't even work!

[Reality Believer]

And let's not even go into the killers of Franz Ferdinand. The poison they used on themselves didn't even work!
Franz Ferdinand is dead!? :confused: I was so looking forward to their next album. :(

[T.A.M.]

zawahiri - Al-Qaeda #2 Guy - Medical Doctor
KSM - 9/11 mastermind - Mechanical Engineering Degree
OBL - Al-Qaeda Leader - College educated in Economics and Administration
Bin Laden studied economics and business administration[16] at the Management and Economics School of King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah. Some reports suggest bin Laden earned a degree in civil engineering in 1979,[17] or a degree in public administration in 1981.[18] Other sources describe him as having left university during his third year,[19] never completing a college degree, though "hard working,"[20]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden#Education_and_politicization

Mohamed Atta - College degree in Urban Planning

In 1991 a German couple running an "international student exchange program" suggested to Atta that he continue his studies in Hamburg, Germany, and offered him a temporary place to live at their house in the city.[2] In 1992 Atta moved there, and was registered as a student of urban planning at the Technical University of Hamburg-Harburg, where he remained until graduating in 1999.[3] He was apparently sponsored by the German student-exchange organization Carl Duisberg Gesellschaft.[4] There are other reports that Atta attended Valencia School of Medicine in Spain during this period, though these may be a case of mistaken identity.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Atta#Early_life

I could go on....but you get the point.

Cavemen indeed.

TAM:)

[CHF]

C'mon! A-rabs can't fly planes!

Everyone knows all those pilots flying for Arab airliners are CIA agents.

[JAStewart]

Good post TAM, I C+P'ed it into another forum.

[The Silver Shadow]

Ahmed Ahmed, an Arab comedian, asked "why doesn't United Airlines put commercials of Arab pilots asking people to fly the friendly skies?"

Back on topic though, I can't stand it when the truthers say this. I'm Iranian and hence, it doesn't apply to me, but seriously guys, education and Arab (or Iranian) are practically synonymous. The truthers give them too little credit, and the people running sites like jihad watch and other anti-Islam websites give them too much credit...

[Jonnyclueless]

It's clearly an absurd claim. Besides, how would arab cavemen even know how to use a knife. It's pretty obvious that fire would have been the preferred weapon.

[Newtons Bit]

Arab cavemen. I guess this is a conspiracy too?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/be/Burj_Dubai.jpg

Unless the definition of caveman is that they can build the tallest building in the world, but can't figure out how to brute force a bunch of scared people.

[PhantomWolf]

Mohamed Atta - College degree in Urban Planning

He had a University degree in Architecture (a course that only the Top Engineering students progressed onto) from Cario University before he went to Germany. He was doing follow up work towards getting his doctorate while he was in Germany.

[Drudgewire]

C'mon! A-rabs can't fly planes!

Everyone knows all those pilots flying for Arab airliners are CIA agents.
Yeah, if we really wanted to blame it on them we should have crashed magic carpets into the towers. That'd really confuse the twoofers who understand middle-eastern culture better than the rest of us.

Stupid NWO, if they didn't pay such awesome wages I'd be out of here so fast. :mad:

[jackob]

Arab cavemen. I guess this is a conspiracy too?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/be/Burj_Dubai.jpg

Unless the definition of caveman is that they can build the tallest building in the world, but can't figure out how to brute force a bunch of scared people.

well to be fair it is designed by US architecture firm Skidmore, Owings and Merrill.

[defaultdotxbe]

well to be fair it is designed by US architecture firm Skidmore, Owings and Merrill.
who also designed the new 7 world trade center and the freedom tower

OMG!! INSIDE JOB!!!

[jackob]

well as long as they didnt leave hole to let the gravity in, it should be safe.

[GwionX]

Oh, and since when is the threat of having your throat slashed with a razorblade something that people just scoff at?

Ruthless Cavemen (or Architects) weilding razorblades paints a pretty damned scarry image to me.

[1337m4n]

I challenge any Twoofer to fight to the death against a slightly weaker person armed with a boxcutter. The Twoofer will be unarmed.

Not one Twoofer should reject. Surely they've nothing to be afraid of?

[WildCat]

I challenge any Twoofer to fight to the death against a slightly weaker person armed with a boxcutter. The Twoofer will be unarmed.

Not one Twoofer should reject. Surely they've nothing to be afraid of?
The weekend before last I actually did get into an altercation with a kid (early 20's) armed with a boxcutter. Luckily he was kind enough to disarm himself by whipping it at my car. I ran after him and caught him and dragged him back to my car as he whimpered for me to "please let me go sir" (funny how I went from m-fer to "sir" in the span of 5 seconds ;)). Anyway, it hit my Jeep in the plastic part right inderneath the sheet metal and didn't do any damage so I let his sorry ass go. I didn't even realize what he threw at my car until I picked it up afterwards, it's mine now! :D

[PhantomWolf]

Oh, and since when is the threat of having your throat slashed with a razorblade something that people just scoff at?

Ask Dylan, wasn't he the one that said something like "Boxcutters? Bwhahahahahaha."

[bofors]

Edited for reality check:


'How can 19 highly trained (by the CIA)



and intelligent Islamic fundamentalists (who otherwith enjoy cocaine, lap dances and can't seem to fly Cenessa 172's)

...

who were on a mission to God (just like the Blues Brothers)

...

outsmart NORAD (under the dubious command of "stand down" Dick Cheney at the time)

...

when the scramble order was to head overseas (one of three different popular excuses)
...
at the same time as turning off their transponders (which had no effect on radar tracking)
...

and declaring they had a bomb on board(which of course means that the pilots would surrendered the cockpit)... Nah (Nah)

[PhantomWolf]

I challenge any Twoofer to fight to the death against a slightly weaker person armed with a boxcutter. The Twoofer will be unarmed.

Not one Twoofer should reject. Surely they've nothing to be afraid of?

If I was still training, or had a little time to get myself fit, I'd take that challenge. :) But then when I was training I took place in simulated knife fights. At the end of two rounds the controller was unsure if I'd actually fought until I pointed out the two slight marks on me, one a light hit to the upper pec, and the other to the back of my wrist. My opponents also ended up with just two marks on them. One a direct hit to the left centre of the chest which would have slid past the sternum, the second has a bright red line from his trachia to his left ear. Of course that was with me being armed as well. It'd take a few seconds longer if I wasn't, about as long as it took to disarm the guy and get the knife myself.

However having said that, even with my training, I wouldn't want to take on 4-5 trained jihadis wielding knives or boxcutters, at least not without some form of weapondry myself, preferably a gun.

[Bell]

Edited for reality check:

and declaring they had a bomb on board(which of course means that the pilots would surrendered the cockpit)... Nah (Nah)


:hb:

Beside every other stupid claim you make in that post, this must be the stupidest of all. Would YOU be able to continue your work after your throath has been cut?

I think you did not only NOT read the NIST report, I think you read nothing regarding 9/11 at all.

[PhantomWolf]

How can 19 highly trained (by the CIA)

Evidence that CIA had anything to do with training the hijackers?

outsmart NORAD (under the dubious command of "stand down" Dick Cheney at the time)

Evidence there was a stand down command?

when the scramble order was to head overseas (one of three different popular excuses)

Evidence that NORAD wasn't entirely situated to deal with threats coming from overseas rather than domestically?

at the same time as turning off their transponders (which had no effect on radar tracking)

Please explain how a plane can be tracked on ATC secondary radar with no transponder. Please explain how a plane can be tracked with no transponder when it is an area not covered by primary radar.

and declaring they had a bomb on board (which of course means that the pilots would surrendered the cockpit)

Please show that the FAA regulations that instructed crew to not cooperate with a hijacker and refuse to do what he tells them to do under any circumstance.

[PhantomWolf]

I think you did not only NOT read the NIST report, I think you read nothing regarding 9/11 at all.

Why would he bother reading anything about 9/11 other then CT sites. He might find out that reality doesn't wish to conform to his beliefs.

[GreNME]

Ahmed Ahmed, an Arab comedian, asked "why doesn't United Airlines put commercials of Arab pilots asking people to fly the friendly skies?"

I love Ahmed Ahmed. He and Moz Jobrani are hillarious. I felt totally bad about missing the Axis of Evil Comedy Tour when it came by my town.

[Elizabeth I]

Evidence that CIA had anything to do with training the hijackers?


Evidence there was a stand down command?


Evidence that NORAD wasn't entirely situated to deal with threats coming from overseas rather than domestically?


Oh, come ON. How many times do they have to explain it? The fact that THERE IS NO EVIDENCE proves it was an inside job. Because "they" cleaned up all the real evidence afterward. "They" installed people to act as COINTELPRO. "They" planted pieces of obviously spurious airliner parts. (Missiles, anyone?)

If you could find evidence that it was an inside job, that would prove it WASN'T, because it would show "they" didn't run around cleaning up after themselves once the whole false flag op was over.

[PhantomWolf]

Oh, come ON. How many times do they have to explain it? The fact that THERE IS NO EVIDENCE proves it was an inside job. Because "they" cleaned up all the real evidence afterward. "They" installed people to act as COINTELPRO. "They" planted pieces of obviously spurious airliner parts. (Missiles, anyone?)

If you could find evidence that it was an inside job, that would prove it WASN'T, because it would show "they" didn't run around cleaning up after themselves once the whole false flag op was over.

Doh! My bad, lol.

[dudalb]

Images of the Cavemen in those Car Insurance commericals hijacking a plane comes into my head.

[Bell]

No. This video comes to mind:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=1619489

[Corsair 115]

If you're trained sufficiently, you don't even need a weapon, you can fight quite effectively bare-handed. Check out the training in hand-to-hand combat the First Special Service Force ("Devil's Brigade") received during WWII. They were taught how to be utterly ruthless and vicious in a hand-to-hand fight in order to quickly win it.

[Dave Rogers]

Edited for reality check:

Nope. Checked it carefully, didn't find any reality.

Dave

[Damien Evans]

If I was still training, or had a little time to get myself fit, I'd take that challenge. :) But then when I was training I took place in simulated knife fights. At the end of two rounds the controller was unsure if I'd actually fought until I pointed out the two slight marks on me, one a light hit to the upper pec, and the other to the back of my wrist. My opponents also ended up with just two marks on them. One a direct hit to the left centre of the chest which would have slid past the sternum, the second has a bright red line from his trachia to his left ear. Of course that was with me being armed as well. It'd take a few seconds longer if I wasn't, about as long as it took to disarm the guy and get the knife myself.

However having said that, even with my training, I wouldn't want to take on 4-5 trained jihadis wielding knives or boxcutters, at least not without some form of weapondry myself, preferably a gun.

Army?

[BenBurch]

Isn't NORAD basically in a cave under Cheyenne Mountain?

Not any more. That facility is largely inactive and lights kept on for emergency use, or so I recall reading.

[defaultdotxbe]

Not any more. That facility is largely inactive and lights kept on for emergency use, or so I recall reading.
i heard stargate command occupies most of the facility now



...what do you mean its not real?

[PhantomWolf]

Army?

Nope, just plain old fashioned Karate*.



* Though the style I did included moves from Akiedo, Jujisu and judo as well as basic weapondry (Numchuka, Bo Staff, Tompha, Swords, and Sais.)

[Undesired Walrus]

Edited for reality check:
'How can 19 highly trained (by the CIA)
Quote:
and intelligent Islamic fundamentalists (who otherwith enjoy cocaine, lap dances and can't seem to fly Cenessa 172's)
...

Quote:
who were on a mission to God (just like the Blues Brothers)
...

Quote:
outsmart NORAD (under the dubious command of "stand down" Dick Cheney at the time)
...

Quote:
when the scramble order was to head overseas (one of three different popular excuses)
...

Quote:
at the same time as turning off their transponders (which had no effect on radar tracking)
...

Quote:
and declaring they had a bomb on board(which of course means that the pilots would surrendered the cockpit)... Nah (Nah)


I don't remember saying all that.

[Damien Evans]

Nope, just plain old fashioned Karate*.



* Though the style I did included moves from Akiedo, Jujisu and judo as well as basic weapondry (Numchuka, Bo Staff, Tompha, Swords, and Sais.)

Ah. Remind me not to get into a fight with you if I ever visit New Zealand

[PhantomWolf]

Ah. Remind me not to get into a fight with you if I ever visit New Zealand

eeeir, I haven't been training for years so I'm not as fit as I was then, besides, I never really liked fighting anyway, I did it for the fitness training and self defence if I required it. At my peak I could have stopped a pistol wielding attacker if I was within about 5 feet of them, but only if there was no one else about because the gun would have gone off, just not in my direction, now days I wouldn't want to try it with a water pistol, and even then if I'd been confronted I'd have probably avoided using it, though it was a good trick to show people at parties with a toy gun. ;) It was good fun though, and I certainly learned a lot, including what you couldn't do. Even our top guys had trouble taking on 2-3 others of similar or slightly lower rank. The lesson being that pure numbers will win over skill any day, regardless of how good you are, which goes both ways for 9/11. Early on the Hijackers had the numbers because no one else on the planes will willing to group togetherm, but later on 93 the mob was able to overwhelm the trained hitmen. The other things I learned were that:

1) If you are going to use or confrontv a person with a weapon be willing to get hit by it.

2) If you take a weapon to a fight be willing to have it used against you

3) No matter how good you think you are, there is always someone better than you

4) Your best weapon is your brain

5) Your best defense is your feet and running. ;)

[tsig]

I don't remember saying all that.

Apparently your fingers kept moving after you posted.

[beachnut]

Edited for reality check:
...

...

...

...

...
Edited, just leaving the facts, all the facts bofors will ever have on 9/11.

I will list them again for those; like me, who are slow.

1.

[GreNME]

Good post, PhantomWolf. I try to avoid commenting on stuff concerning martial arts because it's been so long for me and because sometimes too many comments from too many people turn into peeing matches over styles, but I wanted to add my support for what you said.
The other things I learned were that:

1) If you are going to use or confrontv a person with a weapon be willing to get hit by it.
Yep.

2) If you take a weapon to a fight be willing to have it used against you
The number one reason why I do not want a gun and do not welcome them into my home (barring a possible shotgun in the future).

3) No matter how good you think you are, there is always someone better than you
Emphasis mine, because this can never be repeated enough. I remember when I met a friend's sifu and after some teasing by my friend about my training (I've had mostly training in Japanese styles) versus the sifu's (Wing Chun, Tai Chi Chuan, various Chinese styles), sifu had the best response: he complimented me. This is significant when I add that I'm not that well trained (mostly informal training), it's been years since I trained regularly, and I've seen sifu move-- he has some of the fastest hands I've ever seen in person.

4) Your best weapon is your brain
Also can't be stressed enough.

5) Your best defense is your feet and running. ;)
Isn't that the heart of the concept of "the best way to avoid being hit is not be there" we all learn? :)

[Ryokan]

Isn't NORAD basically in a cave under Cheyenne Mountain?

No, that's Stargate Command :D

[gumboot]

The question of martial arts training on 9/11 is somewhat academic. The pilots in question were strapped into seats in a cramped cockpit, facing away from the door. They were sitting ducks.

-Gumboot

[einsteen]

It would not happen if they had Steven Seagal on board...

[Disbelief]

It would not happen if they had Steven Seagal on board...

Why, because he would eat them?

[PhantomWolf]

The question of martial arts training on 9/11 is somewhat academic. The pilots in question were strapped into seats in a cramped cockpit, facing away from the door. They were sitting ducks.

-Gumboot

I was thinking more from the passangers' point of view. Even if you were Rambo rolled up with Mr Miyagi you'd still be a dead duck if you were attacked by a knife weilding loon while you are strapped into a pilot's seat.

[Sabrina]

It would not happen if they had Steven Seagal on board...

I think they would've been better off with Chuck Norris. :D

[Belz...]

Gives me a great idea for a buddy-cop movie!!

[Andúril]

Arab cavemen. I guess this is a conspiracy too?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/be/Burj_Dubai.jpg

Unless the definition of caveman is that they can build the tallest building in the world, but can't figure out how to brute force a bunch of scared people.

Hmm... their tower bears some resemblance to...

http://www.lord-of-angmar.de/lrv-01_z.jpg

Seems that, after 1400 years, Sauron has returned...