Minor skeptic rant - I'm such a downer...

[ObscureReferenceMan]

Whenever I receive an email with questionable claims (i.e. urban legends), I usually take a few minutes to research the item, and then respond (yes, I usually do a "Reply to All") giving the facts. Unfortunately, I almost always get at least one response from the crowd calling me out for some reason - being a wet blanket, a buzzkill, know-it-all (rule8)head, etc.

Just today, I got the Denzel Washington, Fisher House email. I knew the story from a few years back, but pointed out to the sender & recipients that the story was true, but not quite accurate. And included appropriate links. One guy came back (also replying to all) with a snide/snarky comment - not about the author circulating urban legends, but about me wasting time pointing out the facts.

My feeling is that this can end in one of two ways. Case in point… Our secretary used to send out false or dated "missing child, appeal for help" emails. After the second time I directed her to snopes, I no longer received such emails. So, she either learned and stopped sending such messages out. Or, her response might have been along the lines of, "That guy is always raining on my parade, spoiling my good deed. I'm not going to send him my useful messages any more."

I plan to continue my ways – trying to edify and stem the tide of urban legends and false information. I will also try to do it as tactfully as possible (not always do a "Reply to All", keeping wording positive, etc.). But any input from the JREF membership would be helpful. What do you folks do? Any tips for me for the future?


Thanks!

[Garrette]

I "Reply All" and will continue to do so. If received at work, I have occasionally worded my reply strongly and made sure the appropriate top management people were cc'd (but I would do that only if the behavior persisted).

The complainers and naysayers who accuse you of being a partypooper or whatever will always exist, but they are not the target audience anyway. The target audience is the group of fence-sitters, just as it is here (in my opinion, at least). Most of those won't send you a thanks, but one or two might. Regardless, I will continue to reply even if it is proven no one appreciates it. Scams, poor thinking, wastes of company bandwith--these are all things worth standing up against even if I am the only one standing. At the least I can bring it up as evidence to let my kids know that I don't just play my critical-thinking games at home, and that I have the cajones to act as I speak.

[RSLancastr]

I do the same thing with these Urban Legend emails, ORM. Sometimes I get back snarky somments, some times I get back thank-yous.

I have cured some people of the habit of sending out unverified nonsense, and I have cured others of at least sending it to ME. Either way, it's a win.

As far as advice, your final paragraph seems to sum it up nicely.

[sthomson]

[COLOR=black]But any input from the JREF membership would be helpful. What do you folks do?

Honestly? I sort all emails with a list of more than 10 names to a Junk Folder. It's not really worth my effort.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

For the first one, I generally reply to the sender with a gentle note to do some research first. For the second one from the same sender, I reply to all with a blast saying what a ******* idiot they are (unless they are family). I have been removed from a number of personal mailing lists.

Mrs Toronto seems to enjoy the more jokey and saccharin kind but now understands how to use bcc and delete the huge lists of email addresses that accumulate as they are forwarded, and re-fowarded, and re-re-fowarded . . .

[Fnord]

I recently received one of these emotionally-charged spamessages stating that the L.A. Dodgers association refused to promote a "Faith Day" at the ballpark. After contacting Dodger management and getting their side of the story, I did a "Reply All" and explained everything in detail.

Turns out the original sender was a person from my congregation, whose entire family now refuses to even acknowledge my presence.

Nice, Christian community there, eh what?

At least now I no longer receive any more of their "Prayer Alerts" dictating what I should do about some hot-button issue that is either not true or has been resolved long ago. Like the one I received yesterday from someone else about a kid with cancer who needs just a few more Christmas cards to get into the Guiness Book of World Records (http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/children/nick.asp)...

[Biscuit]

Astrology bugs me to no end. Most things I can just keep my mouth shut but when someone asks me my sign I have to try and educate them. It is a very quick way to piss people off who seem to see astrology as some sort of rational for how the world works. It is as if not following astrology makes you a leper.

When I get emails about astrology I respond by mixing up all the 'readings' and sending it back out without telling anyone, asking them how accurate it is and at the very end tell them what I did. It may seem like a waste but it gives me a smile.

[alfaniner]

I usually include the snopes link, and do a Reply All, but in the BCC field. Usually with an additional note for the lunkhead who exposed my email address to a bunch of people I don't know.

[Fnord]

Astrology bugs me to no end. Most things I can just keep my mouth shut but when someone asks me my sign I have to try and educate them. It is a very quick way to piss people off who seem to see astrology as some sort of rational for how the world works. It is as if not following astrology makes you a leper.

When I get emails about astrology I respond by mixing up all the 'readings' and sending it back out without telling anyone, asking them how accurate it is and at the very end tell them what I did. It may seem like a waste but it gives me a smile.


When asked for my sign - especially by the more rabid astrological wooists - I respond with "Thelev the Weaver." Then I explain how the traditional astrological system is a commercialised distortion of the "One, True System," which is based upon a year of thirteen months of 28 days each (28d, 2h, 18m, 27.7s), which the "Precursor Ytterbian Race" discovered in ancient Onomatapoeia (near present-day Haditha), of which only their astrological text remains. This text is available only to Initiates of the Order, and is not to be shared with outsiders, et cetera, ad nauseum...

Bad Fnord.
Bad, bad Fnord.

[panchov]

Haha I always look them up too, but I've learned not to respond with what I find. Sometimes it's just better (IMO) to let them have their fun. I think most people don't take this stuff all that seriously, they're just trying to not be bored.

I remember the last time I responded by telling everyone the truth - it was about the email that the school kids sent out for their project to see how far around the world it would go..someone came up to my desk and said really nasty "Gosh, I always thought YOU were a good sport!" After that I just gave up.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

When asked for my sign - especially by the more rabid astrological wooists - I respond with "Thelev the Weaver." Then I explain how the traditional astrological system is a commercialised distortion of the "One, True System," which is based upon a year of thirteen months of 28 days each (28d, 2h, 18m, 27.7s), which the "Precursor Ytterbian Race" discovered in ancient Onomatapoeia (near present-day Haditha), of which only their astrological text remains. This text is available only to Initiates of the Order, and is not to be shared with outsiders, et cetera, ad nauseum...

Bad Fnord.
Bad, bad Fnord.

Thnak yoo for this ipromtant ifurmatzun. If I scend yuo 50$ kan I bee yor accoliade? :(

[GT/CS]

Astrology bugs me to no end. Most things I can just keep my mouth shut but when someone asks me my sign I have to try and educate them. It is a very quick way to piss people off who seem to see astrology as some sort of rational for how the world works. It is as if not following astrology makes you a leper.

When I get emails about astrology I respond by mixing up all the 'readings' and sending it back out without telling anyone, asking them how accurate it is and at the very end tell them what I did. It may seem like a waste but it gives me a smile.

I always think of Bill Engvall's, "Here's your sign" routine.:D Which is actually quite appropriate for those people.

[Gravy]

I haven't had one of those emails in years. I've had no problem in the past setting people straight about the myths and asking them not to include me in such mailings.

[Aepervius]

After a few reply all with link to snopes, facts, and electronic & paper articles, I bizarrely stopped getting any such email.

Just kidding, I just think I have been flagged as "rain on the parade" type of guy and never again get such email sent to.

[Skeptic Ginger]

I don't get them myself, but I have had people copy theirs and I take the time to point out the obvious flaws and the countering real evidence. The circulating nonsense about Aspartame comes to mind. I may not have convinced everyone in the group but I at least stopped the promoting recipient from gaining converts.

[my_wan]

After informing a certain friend several times to no avail I once got angry and started searching the prior list of senders to ridicule. One department head at a tech company in Atlanta sent it to all his employees some of which forwarded it to friends and family. He had company fax numbers and all sorts of internal info that shouldn't have been widely distributed. It was one about Microsoft paying for each forward mail.

I got one womans full name as well as her husband, brother, and parents real name. In the email I suggested that if I receive another one I will send an email from her to me about our plans this weekend that accidentally goes to her husbands account. I said I would then send her parents an email from her. Then commented that I'm sure they trust her enough to download attachments and give me control of their computer.

I then showed my friend what I had done. She finally got the point and now gets as angry as I do when she gets these emails.

[Sasha]

After a few reply all with link to snopes, facts, and electronic & paper articles, I bizarrely stopped getting any such email.

Just kidding, I just think I have been flagged as "rain on the parade" type of guy and never again get such email sent to.

I've had both reactions. Some just stopped sending me the junk but a lot of people here at work now go to Snopes right away and have thanked me for pointing it out.

[bluess]

One cow-orker has stopped sending me emails unless they are of cute pets, because I kept sending her ridiculous ones back to all parties with the Snopes link.

I've one friend who keeps sending me those 'send this to ten friends for a special blessing' emails. I just delete them, and the 'I think of you and am praying for you' ones. I don't think education will make any difference in her case.

[Obsequious]

When asked for my sign - especially by the more rabid astrological wooists - I respond with "Thelev the Weaver." Then I explain how the traditional astrological system is a commercialised distortion of the "One, True System," which is based upon a year of thirteen months of 28 days each (28d, 2h, 18m, 27.7s), which the "Precursor Ytterbian Race" discovered in ancient Onomatapoeia (near present-day Haditha), of which only their astrological text remains. This text is available only to Initiates of the Order, and is not to be shared with outsiders, et cetera, ad nauseum...

Bad Fnord.
Bad, bad Fnord.

Dear Fnord,

May I follow and propogate your brilliant plan?

Ever Yr Obdnt Srvnt,

Obsequious

[Cello Man]

I've got mixed responses myself, but mostly positive. Every now and then someone will email my whole office with some bogus chain letter. Last time around it was the Applebee's coupon hoax. I've stopped more than one Myspace bulletin dead in its tracks. Once after making the better information available, the original poster emailed me back "Damn you and your Snopes!" This strucks me as rather Scooby-Doo-ish. "I would've gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!"

I've mentioned it a few times here before, but I think it bears repeating; One of the most satisfying things I've ever done was convincing a co-worker that the Apollo landings were in fact real and not faked. She could have been mad at me for being such a know-it-all, but she thanked me for setting her straight. I think the difference is that I was very patient, I asked the important questions, and I wasn't condescending.

Would I extend the same courtesy to other people or subject matters? No. It depends on the context, and how morally egregious the myth may be. For instance, I would have a very different intellectual and emotional stance towards someone who thinks the moon landings were a hoax versus someone who claims the Holocaust never happened.

[bluess]

Blue2 looked up at me yesterday while watching Scooby Doo and asked "Haven't they figured out yet that its never a ghost and always somebody in a mask? Geez!"

[Cello Man]

Heh. Smart kid.

[Hellbound]

You know, that was why I always liked Scooby-Doo. It always turned out to be a guy in a mask.

Well, witht he rare exceptions from the "tie-in" shows, but even then it was only real if the tie-in considered it real (for example, the Addams family tie-ins).

Of course, they've gone and screwed the pooch with it now. Almost every one of the "new" Scooby-Doo movies and shows has "real" magic, monsters, or ghosts.

They had to [rule8] up a good thing.

[Beerina]

The complainers and naysayers who accuse you of being a partypooper or whatever will always exist, but they are not the target audience anyway.

Ding ding ding, for the win!

The real target audience are the fence sitters, and, hopefully, the goofball who sent the email who'll think twice before becoming a cog in the vectors of urban legend meme disbursement.

[Beerina]

You know, that was why I always liked Scooby-Doo. It always turned out to be a guy in a mask.

Well, witht he rare exceptions from the "tie-in" shows, but even then it was only real if the tie-in considered it real (for example, the Addams family tie-ins).

Of course, they've gone and screwed the pooch with it now. Almost every one of the "new" Scooby-Doo movies and shows has "real" magic, monsters, or ghosts.

They had to [rule8] up a good thing.

If it weren't for those meddling producers! :mad:

[Hellbound]

If it weren't for those meddling producers! :mad:
No kidding!

Burn them! Burn them all!

:D

[bluess]

I just did my bit for rationality - a friend forwarded an email from one of his friends about 'Johns Hopkins U in Md' about how chemotherapy is ineffective, and a good spirit will do it for you and other assorted cow manure. I sent out a reply to everyone in the chain advising that I found the information dubious; that they should check out snopes.com and quackwatch.com; that they should notice that the only person quoted in the article was not from Johns Hopkins; and that they should tell the next person that they meet who has/had cancer that they should have kept in good spirits and avoided the whole trauma.

My friend apparently checked out snopes, and sent back an acknowledgement email to me.

[Amapola]

I always reply to everyone in the chain, along with relevant links and a brief explanation of the truth (in case the person is too busy to check out the link themselves - or is the sort of person who will believe whatever they are told) with a positive, up-beat paragraph about how much time and worry could be saved if only people didn't make up stuff like this and send it to an innocent person such as the person who forwarded it.

The end result is that I very rarely get forwards any more. I know the people who sent them to me still do it, they just don't send them to *me* anymore. Now, a few of the people who recieved my replies wrote me back thanking me for taking the time to point out how they could verify the information on their own. Some of them even send me forwards now and again to help them check them out to see if they are true! That's very cool, and at the same time, I don't have those stupid forwards clogging up my email.

[billyb1012]

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who has been through this -- not even close, it appears. A relative (first cousin) whom I've always been close with had a habit of doing this, and the few times I replied to all were enough to put a serious strain on our relationship. Most of the messages were of a political bent, rather than the urban legend type, which increased the voltage considerably, but of those that did qualify as urban legends, I effectively debunked enough to where he now uses snopes and quackwatch before forwarding claims en masse. (At least, I think so, because he rarely sends me anything more than the funny / sexy stuff)

I haven't changed his political views, which are somewhat to the right of the late Strom Thurmond, nor is there any point in trying, but I believe I have at least succeeded in getting him to think twice before believing every fantastic claim that crosses his inbox. Little victories here and there are the best way to defeat irrationalism when it's entrenched, I think.

[Alex C]

I don't keep the kind of company that send this stuff out tbh...

[arthwollipot]

I remember very clearly one instance of this. I received the email (I'm sure you're all familiar with it) which started with:

Next time you are washing your hands and complain because the water temperature isn't just how you like it, think about how things used to be....
Here are some facts about the 1500s:

I composed a reply addressing all of the very dubious claims in this email and replied to all. I actually got one email back saying (and I quote) "haha u loser i cant beleve u spent time on this"

Usually I just reply to the sender though. It's been a while since I've had anything like this though. I think most of my friends already know what bull it all is.

[Gr8wight]

I almost always reply with a link to snopes, and a message like: "stop slowing down my Internet by jamming the tubes with all this useless garbage." Except for the religious ones. I'm usually pretty rude in reply to those.

[Senex]

I never reply to mass e-mails. As time has gone most people have removed me from their list of people to send those mail messages to. I'm certain that many acquaintances have judged me as being a colder person than I am because I freeze them out of e-mail communication if they send me crap -- but I'm just being honest. I don't even care enough to look up the reasons the mail is bogus, I don't want it and if you send it to me I suspect you are capable of sending me many things I don't want to read.

[Flo]

I used to direct the offending sender of tripe to Snopes or Hoaxbuster, but now I tend to reply all with this short message:

This message is so important, we're sending it anonymously!

Forward it to all your friends right away! Don't think about it!

This is not a chain letter! This story is true! Don't check it out!

This story is so timely, there is no date on it!

This story is so important, we're using lots of exclamation points!!! Lots!!!!!!!

For every message you forward to some unsuspecting person, the Home for the Hopelessly Gullible will donate ten cents to itself. (If you wonder how the Home will know you are forwarding these messages all over creation, you're obviously thinking too much.)

[bluess]

Flo, you rock!

[RSLancastr]

One of my sisters loves to send these urban legends emails around, and was not happy with me when I would do a reply-all linking to Snopes.

Yesterday I received an email from her which had yet another urban legend (the lead-poisoned liptick one). The email was just to me, with a note at the top asking me to check it out before she sends it on to everyone.

Progress!

[Tanstaafl]

One of my sisters loves to send these urban legends emails around, and was not happy with me when I would do a reply-all linking to Snopes.

Yesterday I received an email from her which had yet another urban legend (the lead-poisoned liptick one). The email was just to me, with a note at the top asking me to check it out before she sends it on to everyone.

Progress!


That's about what happened with my aunt. It took a while before I convinced her that she, too, could control the awesome power of snopes!

Now all I get from her is the occasional religious or political drivel, but the obvious urban legends have mostly stopped. I think she's one of my family that still harbors illusions of my being a christian.

[Elizabeth I]

I also replied with the quote from Snopes (in case people were too lazy to check for themselves), as well as the link, and now I too very rarely receive any of this. One of my friends now prefaces his weird/amazing/horrifying/ toofunny posts with "confirmed by Snopes," when applicable.

The one exception is my sister-in-law, but hers are mostly jokes I've already heard so they're not so irritating.