UK Review of Final Insult

[Brainster]

Over at Rinf (http://rinf.com/alt-news/911-truth/loose-change-final-cut-%e2%80%93-uk-premier/1657/). Some wince-worthy moments, like this:

Before the screening began, Tim Sparke, executive producer of Loose Change 3, gave us a brief thank you and intro, he welcomed us by saying: “By the end of this, you’re going to be knackered!”.

Perhaps our British friends could inform us as to whether this is a compliment to the film; Dictionary.com says that knackered means "very tired, exhausted", derived from the word "knacker": a man in the pre-automobile days who bought old, tired horses and converted them into glue and other products. While this might seem an appropriate use for septuagenarian Troofers like Peter Dale Scott and David Ray Griffin, it does seem a little extreme.

The reviewer does provide a basic outline of the film, which is appreciated:

The ISI, Able Danger, Cynthia McKinney, the intelligence failures, war games, drills etc all feature in the first half of this marathon truth production.

The rumors that LCFC is mostly LIHOP appear to be correct.

I did have to wonder about this part:

Lastly the national debt is covered and how it has dramatically increased for no apparent reason.

It's a complete mystery to me, as well; couldn't have anything to do with a war and tax cuts could it?

[Slayhamlet]

I had no idea David Ray Griffin was that old. Weird.

[GreNME]

Wow. He took a left turn at Zeitgeist and just kept on running for this one, it seems like.

[dudalb]

If it's LIHOP that will automatically turn a lot of the Twoofers against Dylan.
Bad move. He had no chance of getting an expanded audience anyway,so he should have stuck with his core audience.

[Brainster]

I had no idea David Ray Griffin was that old. Weird.

Okay, he's 68. Near septuagenarian!

[T.A.M.]

If it's LIHOP that will automatically turn a lot of the Twoofers against Dylan.
Bad move. He had no chance of getting an expanded audience anyway,so he should have stuck with his core audience.

I dunno. This could be an easy out for a lot of the MIHOPs who are now realizing their BS is exactly that, and want to back out quietly, without looking bad. The LIHOP, with a LC"FC endorsement, might give them that out.

TAM:)

[dudalb]

I saw an ad for John McCain on the RINF website.
Whoever in the McCain campaign thought an ad on a kook website would help McCain's Campaign need to be fired,NOW. With help like that,no wonder McCain's presidential bid is falling apart.

[dudalb]

I dunno. This could be an easy out for a lot of the MIHOPs who are now realizing their BS is exactly that, and want to back out quietly, without looking bad. The LIHOP, with a LC"FC endorsement, might give them that out.

TAM:)

The would be giving the MIHOP'ers a lot more intelligence then I give them credit for.
ANd you are forgetting with what fanatacism Cters cling to their beliefs.

[Gravy]

It's a complete mystery to me, as well; couldn't have anything to do with a war and tax cuts could it?Duh, it's cuz they stoled the gold.

[T.A.M.]

I believe the correct expression is "da golds".

TAM;)

[Bell]

“It was also good to see the coverage of the EPA’s lies to the rescue workers when they told them that the air was safe to breathe after the three WTC collapses. This is an issue often sidelined in other films. Loose Change Final Edition includes an interview with John Feal of the Feal Good Foundation (fealgoodfoundation.com) and many other citizens, victims of 9/11 who were betrayed by their government.”

Why is that good, in light of a 9/11 conspiracy flick? What does this have to do with a conspiracy? Appeal to emotion much?

[DGM]

I dunno. This could be an easy out for a lot of the MIHOPs who are now realizing their BS is exactly that, and want to back out quietly, without looking bad. The LIHOP, with a LC"FC endorsement, might give them that out.

TAM:)
But to do that don't they have to drop all CD's? including WTC7. They would really need some fancy tap dancing to still include that stuff.

[Gravy]

Why is that good, in light of a 9/11 conspiracy flick? What does this have to do with a conspiracy? Appeal to emotion much?Well, it's also completely false. No one said the air at Ground Zero was safe to breathe. Looks like Avery's desire to make this version "100% airtight" went by the wayside.

[Bell]

Well, it's also completely false. No one said the air at Ground Zero was safe to breathe. Looks like Avery's desire to make this version "100% airtight" went by the wayside.

Unless airtight means sticking your head in a plastic bag, preventing oxygen to reach the brain.

Btw, can't wait for your analysis of The Final Insult :D

[Hyperviolet]

Over at Rinf (http://rinf.com/alt-news/911-truth/loose-change-final-cut-%e2%80%93-uk-premier/1657/). Some wince-worthy moments, like this:



Perhaps our British friends could inform us as to whether this is a compliment to the film; Dictionary.com says that knackered means "very tired, exhausted", derived from the word "knacker": a man in the pre-automobile days who bought old, tired horses and converted them into glue and other products. While this might seem an appropriate use for septuagenarian Troofers like Peter Dale Scott and David Ray Griffin, it does seem a little extreme.


Knackered does infact mean 'tired.' However, in this context, it means; overwhelmed.

Regarding the review:
It seems to me that LCFC is attemping to simply poke holes and find inconsistancies - refraining from offering actual answers. That is, answers that can be debunked. See LC2.
Is it wrong to assume that the film will be filled with:
"Isn't that weird?"
"Can you believe that?"
"What are the chances?"
instead of offering alternative, workable solutions?

Maybe i'm wrong.

[Brainster]

I saw an ad for John McCain on the RINF website.
Whoever in the McCain campaign thought an ad on a kook website would help McCain's Campaign need to be fired,NOW. With help like that,no wonder McCain's presidential bid is falling apart.

You will see ads for all the candidates in the weirdest places; at times I've even seen ads for McCain at the Looser Forum (if you can imagine, given that he wrote the intro to the Popular Mechanics book). It has to do with the nature of internet advertising and not some decision by the campaign that this would be a good site for his message.

McCain's campaign is in trouble because of the immigration bill; he got hammered on that issue among conservatives and is only now starting to recover.

Full disclosure: I have personally endorsed John McCain for President.

[dudalb]

But to do that don't they have to drop all CD's? including WTC7. They would really need some fancy tap dancing to still include that stuff.

Most MIHOPers have gone too far down the road to turn back,frankly.
And it might be that although Dylan added some more LIHOP material,all the MIHOP crap is still there.

[dudalb]

You will see ads for all the candidates in the weirdest places; at times I've even seen ads for McCain at the Looser Forum (if you can imagine, given that he wrote the intro to the Popular Mechanics book). It has to do with the nature of internet advertising and not some decision by the campaign that this would be a good site for his message.

McCain's campaign is in trouble because of the immigration bill; he got hammered on that issue among conservatives and is only now starting to recover.

Full disclosure: I have personally endorsed John McCain for President.

I like McCain, but was shocked to see his ad on that website.
If that is the nature of Internet Advertising,I have got to think a lot of money is sent down the bunghole .

[PhantomWolf]

I wouldn't be too hard on McCain's PR people. Most Web advertising these days is sold as a block to an advertiser, and then sites link to the advertising site's ad banner (like Google Ads for instance.) The site has little say over what ads they end up displaying and those the ads are for have little say over what sites run their ads. (and a quick check does show that Rinf is indeed using Google Ads.)

[dudalb]

You learn something everyday.
But it still seems like a wasteful way to use ad money,in a totally untargeted approach.
Not to mention it might produce some embarassament in a political context.

[Cheers]

Well, it's also completely false. No one said the air at Ground Zero was safe to breathe. Looks like Avery's desire to make this version "100% airtight" went by the wayside.

In a series of public statements issued after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) assured the people of New York that the air around ground zero was safe to breathe.

http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/interference/ground-zero-air-pollution.html

[PhantomWolf]

You learn something everyday.
But it still seems like a wasteful way to use ad money,in a totally untargeted approach.
Not to mention it might produce some embarassament in a political context.

Not really, you only pay per click so the shotgun effect of getting it on numerous sites is quite cost effective. There is the possible embarassment factor, but of course you still have cover in that you have no control over what site the ad displays on because it is determined by a random generator that is slanted for the User's IP country and phrases taken from the page they are viewing.

[RedIbis]

Well, it's also completely false. No one said the air at Ground Zero was safe to breathe.

No one except the EPA. Will you admit you're wrong? The house is laying 8:1 that you won't.

A September 18, 2001 press release was even more confident, quoting then-EPA Administrator Christine Todd Whitman: "Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, DC that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/interference/ground-zero-air-pollution.html

That finding is included in a report released Friday by the Office of the Inspector General of the EPA. It noted that some of the agency's news releases in the weeks after the attack were softened before being released to the public: Reassuring information was added, while cautionary information was deleted.

"When the EPA made a September 18 announcement that the air was 'safe' to breathe, it did not have sufficient data and analyses to make such a blanket statement," the report says.

Published on Saturday, August 23, 2003 by the Long Island, NY Newsday

[RedIbis]

http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/interference/ground-zero-air-pollution.html

You beat me to it! That's what I get for not scrolling through the thread.

[MarkyX]

Wait, he is going to mention Able Danger and ISI?

You're making my job much easier Dylan. It's bad enough you choose poorly supported theories to begin with, but it contradicts what your entire movement believes in!

So now you're admitting there were hijackers?

[Cheers]

You beat me to it! That's what I get for not scrolling through the thread.

I wonder if gravy will admit he is wrong on this.

I don't understand why debunkers would treat the air quality issue as a conspiracy theory.

[Cheers]

Wait, he is going to mention Able Danger and ISI?

You're making my job much easier Dylan. It's bad enough you choose poorly supported theories to begin with, but it contradicts what your entire movement believes in!

So now you're admitting there were hijackers?

Good luck debunking this film. You even have to get it illegally or pay for it haha.

[MarkyX]

I wonder if gravy will admit he is wrong on this.

I don't understand why debunkers would treat the air quality issue as a conspiracy theory.

Actually we're more like "since when did the air quality prove bombs were planted in the towers and the Flight 93 phonecalls were fake?"

Because whenever we do question the 9/11 deniers theories, they always jump back into the EPA issue and using the first responders as human shields. Pretty disgusting tactic.

[RedIbis]

I wonder if gravy will admit he is wrong on this.

I don't understand why debunkers would treat the air quality issue as a conspiracy theory.

The house doesn't think so and there's no action so far. 8:1 might be too low.



I don't understand why debunkers would treat the air quality issue as a conspiracy theory.

Perhaps because it's not a theory, but it is in fact a conspiracy. The White House conspired to cover up the true nature of the air quality:

"The EPA's press releases and public statements after 9/11 were vetted by then-National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, suggesting that the White House placed politics over science when communicating about ground zero's air quality." http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/interference/ground-zero-air-pollution.html

Now why would they do that?

[MarkyX]

Good luck debunking this film. You even have to get it illegally or pay for it haha.

Yeah that's true. I guess Dylan is afraid of a challenge. Considering Mark Roberts, the Screw loose change blogspot, and my subtitled video pretty much destroy the credibility of LC, Dylan needs to find a way to protect himself from folks like us. But why would he view us as a threat? Because we would be killing his sales.

[Good Lt]

Because we would be killing his sales.

I dunno. As long as Troofers like Ibis, Swing, Cheers/Last Child/etc. exist, I think Do-over Dylan will be doing just fine making money from his blood libel.

There's an idiot born every second.

[Cheers]

Yeah that's true. I guess Dylan is afraid of a challenge. Considering Mark Roberts, the Screw loose change blogspot, and my subtitled video pretty much destroy the credibility of LC, Dylan needs to find a way to protect himself from folks like us. But why would he view us as a threat? Because we would be killing his sales.

Yeah, you have so destroyed Loose Change. Its only been seen by 50,000,000 people. :rolleyes:

[Redtail]

Yeah, you have so destroyed Loose Change. Its only been seen by 50,000,000 people. :rolleyes:

And about 100 of them showed up to protest at Ground Zero this year.:rolleyes:

[Good Lt]

Yeah, you have so destroyed Loose Change. Its only been seen by 50,000,000 people.

They all watched it beginning to end? And what about the debunkers who've watched it multiple times in order to punch massive truck-sized holes in it?

And that's got what to do with SALES?

Let's do some fun math.

If Do-over Dylan and co sell 1,000 DVDs of their blood libel, they make 20,000 dollars. 2,000, they make 40,000.

So they make a ton off the Troofers, but actually only sell the crap to several thousand people.

Hardly a "movement."

Reading comp is fun.

[Narveson]

Yeah, you have so destroyed Loose Change. Its only been seen by 50,000,000 people. :rolleyes:

Seen by 50 people a million times each, perhaps closer to reality. ;)

Where do they find the time?

[Cheers]

And about 100 of them showed up to protest at Ground Zero this year.:rolleyes:

Ridiculous argument. How many people are against animal cruelty compared to how many people that actually turn up to sabotage hunts etc?

[Brainster]

Good luck debunking this film. You even have to get it illegally or pay for it haha.

Boy, there's a moral dilemma!

[Arus808]

nice straw man cheers. when are you going to present facts? you've abandoned one thread where we asked your for facts, but look at you. running ot another thread.

[Good Lt]

Ridiculous argument. How many people are against animal cruelty compared to how many people that actually turn up to sabotage hunts etc?

Wait, wait, wait.

I thought the entire world should be revolting against the greatest injustice ever perpetrated upon humanity. Ever.

More people marched in Boston's WS victory parade this than in any Troofer rally.

Seems like your "movement" is a bust. Duh.

[Redtail]

Ridiculous argument. How many people are against animal cruelty compared to how many people that actually turn up to sabotage hunts etc?

Ridiculous analogy. Animals aren't people, but since you brought it up, how many more people showed up to protest Vick that to demand a new investigation?

[CHF]

Ridiculous argument. How many people are against animal cruelty compared to how many people that actually turn up to sabotage hunts etc?

C'mon man. Surely exposing the twoof about 9/11 is a bit more important than PETA!

And yet even they draw more people into the streets than you guys do.

[ConspiRaider]

Ridiculous argument. How many people are against animal cruelty compared to how many people that actually turn up to sabotage hunts etc?
I once got wind that some poochers were hunting a flying Citgo station in Washington DC and I threw myself across the #3 Self-Serve Unleaded With Techroline pump to block any incoming birdshot...

[MarkyX]

Ridiculous argument. How many people are against animal cruelty compared to how many people that actually turn up to sabotage hunts etc?

Cheers, let me tell you something.

This is a furry:

http://regmedia.co.uk/2007/06/28/cat_furry.jpg

Furries are folks who has some sort of identify with anthropomorphic animal characters. Most of them also tend to perverts who dress up like animals and have sex with one another. Ironically enough, the furry movement originated in California.

The biggest furry convention is Anthrocon, which had over 2000 people in attendance this year.

Did you read that Cheers? People who dress up like animals and bang each other outnumber your movement on Ground Zero at the anniversary of 9/11.

[RedIbis]

Cheers, let me tell you something.

This is a furry:

http://regmedia.co.uk/2007/06/28/cat_furry.jpg

Furries are folks who has some sort of identify with anthropomorphic characters. Most of them also tend to perverts who dress up like animals and have sex with one another. Ironically enough, the furry movement originated in California.

The biggest furry convention is Anthrocon, which had over 2000 people in attendance this year.

Did you read that Cheers? People who dress up like animals and bang each other outnumber your movement on Ground Zero at the anniversary of 9/11.

Quick question: Why do you know that?

[CHF]

Quick question: Why do you know that?

Cuz we're always amazed what kind of bizarre fringe groups manage to outdraw the 9/11 kooks.

And yet you're still convinced that you have massive public support.

[ConspiRaider]

Quick question: Why do you know that?
I'm the recording secretary for the furry group, and I PM'd MarkyX on the number of Furry Guestbook Signees.

I went last year as a life-size blue whale.

[MarkyX]

Quick question: Why do you know that?

Wikipedia is your friend.

Also, I just wanted to show just how pathetic your movement is when it's being outnumbered by sexual deviants who get aroused by others who dress up like wolves and squirrels.

[cyclonic]

Cheers, let me tell you something.

This is a furry:

http://regmedia.co.uk/2007/06/28/cat_furry.jpg

Furries are folks who has some sort of identify with anthropomorphic characters. Most of them also tend to perverts who dress up like animals and have sex with one another. Ironically enough, the furry movement originated in California.

The biggest furry convention is Anthrocon, which had over 2000 people in attendance this year.

Did you read that Cheers? People who dress up like animals and bang each other outnumber your movement on Ground Zero at the anniversary of 9/11.

LOL!

[Cheers]

Wikipedia is your friend.

Also, I just wanted to show just how pathetic your movement is when it's being outnumbered by sexual deviants who get aroused by others who dress up like wolves and squirrels.

So you put sex with animals into wikipedia? Whatever floats your boat but I think you should stick to debunking.

Numbers means nothing. How many americans go to church? Does that make religion right?

[OldTigerCub]

I had no idea David Ray Griffin was that old. Weird.

Okay, he's 68. Near septuagenarian!

Maybe one of the few exceptions to the old axiom "With age comes wisdom"

Not much wisdom there.....:p

[MarkyX]

So you put sex with animals into wikipedia? Whatever floats your boat but I think you should stick to debunking.

Numbers means nothing. How many americans go to church? Does that make religion right?

Nice try on ignoring the fact that your movement is outnumbered by freaks, while pretending to have the majority of the public on your side.

[CHF]

Numbers means nothing. How many americans go to church? Does that make religion right?

No but large crowds in church certainly help make religion influential in America.

And you guys want to have influence.

Don't you?

[OldTigerCub]

Cheers, let me tell you something.

This is a furry:

http://regmedia.co.uk/2007/06/28/cat_furry.jpg

Furries are folks who has some sort of identify with anthropomorphic animal characters. Most of them also tend to perverts who dress up like animals and have sex with one another. Ironically enough, the furry movement originated in California.

The biggest furry convention is Anthrocon, which had over 2000 people in attendance this year.

Did you read that Cheers? People who dress up like animals and bang each other outnumber your movement on Ground Zero at the anniversary of 9/11.

:dl:
I can't touch that one...but I get to laugh myself to sleep tonight!:D
Thanks, MarkyX

[Gravy]

Numbers means nothing.

You're all set then.
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790472cf48df01de.jpg
No one said they had to be moving forward.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/87904670cd1dc0fcb.jpg

[ConspiRaider]

So you put sex with animals into wikipedia? Whatever floats your boat but I think you should stick to debunking.

Numbers means nothing. How many americans go to church? Does that make religion right?
How many boating Americans who dress as furry animules have sex in the pews while singing the hymn "His Twoof Is Marching On"?

Probably more than are in your group.

[Slayhamlet]

So you put sex with animals into wikipedia? Whatever floats your boat but I think you should stick to debunking.

Numbers means nothing. How many americans go to church? Does that make religion right?

No, he put "furries" into Wikipedia, which doesn't involve animals at all; just weird, freaky people. If you've been paying attention to the internet for any significant amount of time you can't help but be aware of their existence, by no intention of your own.

Also, we're not saying 9/11 Twoof is wrong because your numbers aren't nearly as impressive as the stuffed internet polls and the even more stuffed egos of your leaders might lead one to believe. That would be argumentum ad populum fallacy. We're just pointing out how pathetic your movement is, despite its boasts to the contrary.

[LashL]

How many boating Americans who dress as furry animules have sex in the pews while singing the hymn "His Twoof Is Marching On"?

Probably more than are in your group.


That just cried out for a link to Spektator's variation on "Battle Hymn of the Republic" from the "9/11: the musical" thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=63415). Nicely done, indeed.


All hail the proud researchers of the dark conspiracy!
Disinfo agents lurk around behind each bush and tree!
My mom and dad are in on it and they deny CD!
And we go blath'ring on!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Got some questions to put to ya!
Got no evidence, but boo-ya,
Still we go blath'ring on!

Now some of us believe in planes, but some no planes can see,
And some of us on thermite bombs can cheerfully agree,
And others think a tow'r tall should fall just like a tree,
And we go blath'ring on!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Got some questions to put to ya!
Got no evidence, but boo-ya,
Still we go blath'ring on!

We know George Bush was in on it, was paid an oily fee,
And Tony Blair and cabbies too and folks from A to zee,
And now I'm in the process of investigating me,
And we go blath'ring on!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Got some questions to put to ya!
Got no evidence, but boo-ya,
Still we go blath'ring on!

[ConspiRaider]

That just cried out for a link to Spektator's variation on "Battle Hymn of the Republic" from the "9/11: the musical" thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=63415). Nicely done, indeed.
Wow, that's a good one, LL, thanks for re-posting, I'd missed it!

[Minadin]

I saw an ad for John McCain on the RINF website.
Whoever in the McCain campaign thought an ad on a kook website would help McCain's Campaign need to be fired,NOW. With help like that,no wonder McCain's presidential bid is falling apart.

I've seen McCain ads at LCF:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1253246129b12c4740.gif

As far as I know, they are still there. (yes, that IS Dylan telling a psychotic who has threatened to physically harm Gravy where to find him, in the screenie)

[Brainster]

Cheers, let me tell you something.

This is a furry:

http://regmedia.co.uk/2007/06/28/cat_furry.jpg

I'd hit that.

[Tbone]

Just to interject, while the furry analogy is accurate enough, "most" are not sexual deviants who have sex with fursuits on.

(PS - Not a furry. Seriously :boxedin: )

[Corsair 115]

Wikipedia is your friend.There was also an episode of CSI a few years ago which mentioned that particular fetish.

[jhunter1163]

Just to interject, while the furry analogy is accurate enough, "most" are not sexual deviants who have sex with fursuits on.

(PS - Not a furry. Seriously :boxedin: )

I thought that said "have sex with Jesuits". I need to go to bed.

[Tbone]

I thought that said "have sex with Jesuits". I need to go to bed.

There's probably a good number of people who want to do that too.

[jhunter1163]

http://www.beerpongguru.com/world-beer-pong/vegas-beer-pong2006.html

The World Beer Pong Championships drew better than the Truthers do.

[kimota]

Yeah, you have so destroyed Loose Change. Its only been seen by 50,000,000 people. :rolleyes:
Numbers means nothing. How many americans go to church? Does that make religion right?

Left hand, do you know what the right hand is doing? Could it possibly be shooting yourself in the foot?

[Big Les]

To go back to the question re "knackered", the other poster was right to say that it just means the film was tiring to watch. Not really a wince-worthy moment. You could say the same thing about Battlefield Earth. In other words in itself it's not much of an indicator of how the reviewer felt about the film, but it does suggest that there's a lot of content and imagery packed into it that's tough to absorb - probably quite intentional. These shockumentaries (and as we know, LC is no exception) are typically light on facts and big on emotion, and so play out as the celluloid equivalent of a clown with a bullhorn; overwhelming the viewer and emotionally beating them into either agreement or disgust (or both). Michael Moore is expert at balancing elements of truth with carefully edited reaching and emotional content. Dylan and the gang... not so much. I expect LCFC to be about as subtle in conveying its message of truthiness as a gold-plated tank.

[JAStewart]

Haha this thread has brightened my day :D

I love da twoof™SM®©

[RedIbis]

You're all set then.


Will the house be boosting the odds, or will you be admitting you were wrong about the EPA?


"No one said the air at Ground Zero was safe to breathe."

[JamesB]

Nice try on ignoring the fact that your movement is outnumbered by freaks, while pretending to have the majority of the public on your side.

The rock paper scissors championship draws more attendees. But then again, they do have prize money. :D

http://worldrps.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=207&Itemid=73

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Just to interject, while the furry analogy is accurate enough, "most" are not sexual deviants who have sex with fursuits on.

(PS - Not a furry. Seriously :boxedin: )
That is my understanding as well. I'd put furries on par with LARPers, SCA members, etc. They're people that identify with a particular theme and have formed a subculture.

Anyone remember who our resident furry was? Had a cartoon skunk (not Pepe) for an avatar. Hasn't posted for a while.

[Calcas]

There was also an episode of CSI a few years ago which mentioned that particular fetish.

This seasons "Entourage" had an episode as well...

[Drudgewire]

Did you read that Cheers? People who dress up like animals and bang each other outnumber your movement on Ground Zero at the anniversary of 9/11.
And are more grounded in reality.

The furry CSI was great. Turns out a hunter shoots him. :D

[dudalb]

A lot of people watch "Loose Change" for the same reason they watch "Plan 9 From Outer Space".
One line from "PLan 9" seems so appropriate for the Truthers"
"You Humans are Stupid! Stupid,Stupid,Stupid!".

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

You even have to get it illegally or pay for it haha.

What are you? 12?

[Rika]

Cheers was a pdoh sock ( http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3127620#post3127620 )

And I'm also a furry, I just happen to draw the line way before fursuits. (And by extension cons.)

Anyway, to address the question: I believe what Gravy is saying is that this has no direct bearing on the conspiracy (Did the EPA ever apologize, incidently?)

[Drudgewire]

What are you? 12?
Pdoh is twelve? :p

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

There was also an episode of CSI a few years ago which mentioned that particular fetish.

Even Monty Python had a sketch about furries. (I think it was specifically men dressing up like mice and meeting in secret)

[Brainster]

Cheers was a pdoh sock ( http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3127620#post3127620 )

And I'm also a furry, I just happen to draw the line way before fursuits. (And by extension cons.)

Anyway, to address the question: I believe what Gravy is saying is that this has no direct bearing on the conspiracy (Did the EPA ever apologize, incidently?)

This is a very complicated issue. The EPA comment was directed mostly at New York City residents, not people who worked on the pile. Note the specific mention of air quality being tested in Brooklyn, which was downwind from GZ.

It was very well understood that working on the pile was hazardous, and most of the people who did were wearing respirators. The problem was that you couldn't smoke a cigarette and the respirators were uncomfortable.

In addition, there are complicating issues with at least some of the claims made of death/disability due to working on the pile. James Zadroga (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/10/26/2007-10-26_city_says_drug_use_not_dust_killed_911_h-2.html), a 34-year-old NYPD detective, died of "black-lung disease" according to one pathologist, and from IV drug abuse according to another. And a clinic responsible for the most sensational claims (like the one that says 70% of the first responders are sick) turns out to have shoddy record-keeping (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/07/nyregion/07sinai.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin) and "strong ties to labor unions".

That some people have gotten sick is undeniable; the NY Times article about the clinic notes:

Even now, there is debate about how harmful the dust was, and whether it could cause cancer or debilitating chronic diseases, although there is emerging medical consensus that workers who arrived at ground zero early and stayed longest were at greatest risk of getting sick. Medical studies by the Fire Department, and most recently by the city health department, show that the dust has caused diseases like asthma and sarcoidosis (a lung-scarring disease) in a small percentage of rescue workers.

But as Gravy pointed out, this particular issue is not at all what the 9-11 "Truth" movement is really about. They have adopted it as a shield against claims they are insensitive to the victims and the families and it seems to be working. But even if the air quality issue turns out to be valid, it will not vindicate the Troofers for all the lies they have told about controlled demolition and no big Boeing at the Pentagon.

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

nm... weirdness going on. I thought I hadn't posted this comment

[jsiv]

When asked how much the film cost to produce, he said “close to $1 million dollars”, but added “we could have made it more cinematic”.


So.... Where is all the money coming from? For this, their world tour, etc, etc.

[A W Smith]

Cheers was a pdoh sock ( http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3127620#post3127620 )


:dl:
I called it (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3103118&postcount=253).. by his 13th post as aqua323

[bonavada]

re the word "knackered"
besides being a term used in the context "i feel knackered after a long, particulary hard ****** (insert arduous activity here)" it can also be used as a term for something on it's last legs, as in the example of a horse on it's way to the "knackers yard" doomed you might say.

"knackers" is also a common term for the two dangly bits half of us humans tend to be so protective of. you know that part of the body you aint supposed to aim for whilst boxing.....

BV

[Rika]

Ah. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Bell]

Cheers was a pdoh sock ( http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3127620#post3127620 )

Could somebody check if I missed on of his puppets in my new sig :D

[Rolfe]

Furries are folks who has some sort of identify with anthropomorphic animal characters. Most of them also tend to perverts who dress up like animals and have sex with one another.


Sheesh, REALLY????

I could have gone on not knowing that.

Rolfe.

[Rolfe]

re the word "knackered"
besides being a term used in the context "i feel knackered after a long, particulary hard ****** (insert arduous activity here)" it can also be used as a term for something on it's last legs, as in the example of a horse on it's way to the "knackers yard" doomed you might say.

"knackers" is also a common term for the two dangly bits half of us humans tend to be so protective of. you know that part of the body you aint supposed to aim for whilst boxing.....

BV


Just to continue on the theme -

After a hard day at college, I exclaimed, "I'm knackered". A friend took me to task about the usage, claiming that the term was "only used about one activity". One which, quite obviously, I hadn't been engaged on that afternoon.

I've heard it used once or twice in that context, but for sure not exclusively. Thanks for confirming (34 years on) that I was right.

Rolfe.

[Rika]

Sheesh, REALLY????

I could have gone on not knowing that.

Rolfe.

As I said earlier, not all furries are like that. Just... the ones that go to cons tend to be...


In more topical news, I think Dylan might try to mix MIHOP with LIHOP, going for the "when LIHOP failed.."

[tsig]

I'm the recording secretary for the furry group, and I PM'd MarkyX on the number of Furry Guestbook Signees.

I went last year as a life-size blue whale.

That was you?

WOW you like totally filled the room! You were like, you know, just the most. And then you like well spouted and everyone just totally freaaked. Furrys coated in spume writhing on the floor. you get the drift.

[Slayhamlet]

http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/interference/ground-zero-air-pollution.html

No. That does not contradict what Gravy said at all. His statement is very specific, and it is correct. The EPA did indicate, wrongly, that the air near and around Ground Zero, meaning most of Manhattan and Brooklyn, was completely safe to breathe, both for the public and for the rescue workers while they were off site. But the EPA did not say that the air at the disaster site itself was safe.

See: http://www.epa.gov/wtc/stories/headline_091801.htm
EPA has conducted repeated monitoring of ambient air at the site of the World Trade Center and in the general Wall Street district of Manhattan, as well as in Brooklyn. The Agency is planning to perform air monitoring in the surrounding New York metropolitan area. EPA has established 10 continuous (stationary) air monitoring stations near the WTC site. Thus far, from 50 air samples taken, the vast majority of results are either non-detectable or below established levels of concern for asbestos, lead and volatile organic compounds. The highest levels of asbestos have been detected within one-half block of ground zero, where rescuers have been provided with appropriate protective equipment.

Rescue workers were provided with air-purifying respirators and advised to wear them at all times on site. Not all of them did, unfortunately, and no agency was given the authority to enforce their use. Here's a good NYT article (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/05/nyregion/05masks.html?_r=1&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Subjects/S/Sept.%2011,%202001/Rescue%20Workers&oref=slogin) on this issue.

[Slayhamlet]

No one except the EPA. Will you admit you're wrong? The house is laying 8:1 that you won't.

A September 18, 2001 press release was even more confident, quoting then-EPA Administrator Christine Todd Whitman: "Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, DC that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/interference/ground-zero-air-pollution.html

That finding is included in a report released Friday by the Office of the Inspector General of the EPA. It noted that some of the agency's news releases in the weeks after the attack were softened before being released to the public: Reassuring information was added, while cautionary information was deleted.

"When the EPA made a September 18 announcement that the air was 'safe' to breathe, it did not have sufficient data and analyses to make such a blanket statement," the report says.

Published on Saturday, August 23, 2003 by the Long Island, NY Newsday

Here's the EPA's Sept 18 Press Release (http://www.epa.gov/wtc/stories/headline_091801.htm), Red. Where does it say the air at Ground Zero was safe? Will you admit you are wrong?

[GreNME]

Not defending the CTists, Slayhamlet, but the type of gear handed out like these (http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/06/05/nyregion/05mask.1901.jpg) were even insufficient for some of the airborne particulates at Ground Zero for at least the first few months. The EPA definitely under-reported things and were negligent in identifying dangers (until well after the fact, too late for many), though not quite to the level the CTists like to claim.

Then again, I lived in NJ during the Whitman-as-governor years, so maybe I have a bias against her. :)

[Slayhamlet]

Not defending the CTists, Slayhamlet, but the type of gear handed out like these (http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/06/05/nyregion/05mask.1901.jpg) were even insufficient for some of the airborne particulates at Ground Zero for at least the first few months. The EPA definitely under-reported things and were negligent in identifying dangers (until well after the fact, too late for many), though not quite to the level the CTists like to claim.

Then again, I lived in NJ during the Whitman-as-governor years, so maybe I have a bias against her. :)

I don't doubt it. The EPA made a lot of mistakes in the wake of 9/11, and what's worse some of these appear to have been influenced by pure politics. But they did not say the air at Ground Zero was safe for unaided breathing.

[GreNME]

Hence my caveat about not defending CTists ;)

[ConspiRaider]

That was you?

WOW you like totally filled the room! You were like, you know, just the most. And then you like well spouted and everyone just totally freaaked. Furrys coated in spume writhing on the floor. you get the drift.
:D :D :D :D

When I returned the costume, 3 furry partygoers fell out of the blowhole.

[mortimer]

:dl:
I called it (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3103118&postcount=253).. by his 13th post as aqua323

Even if you had been WAGing it, youd've had very nice odds when calling pdoh socks on a new truther here. Just sayin'.

[Redtail]

As I said earlier, not all furries are like that. Just... the ones that go to cons tend to be...



Just to have Toko's back, I'm not a furry but I try to make Fetish Flea every year. Granted I'm not a furry but there ya go.;)

[leftysergeant]

Furries are folks who has some sort of identify with anthropomorphic animal characters. Most of them also tend to perverts who dress up like animals and have sex with one another. Ironically enough, the furry movement originated in California.

What do you mean by "perverts?" Is there some serious sadism or other, less cute fetish that they also engage in? Is there a gay or pedophiliac element? Does it involve vile waste substances? If not, I do not get the "pervert" part.

Look here, you gotta have a sense of humor to get done up like that in the anticipation it will get you laid, right?

I figure getting intimate with someone with no sense of humor would be perverted.

So, I don't get what's so wierd here.

It's not like they are accusing real heroes of being the hencemen of international villians or anything.

THAT is perverted.

[chillzero]

Please take discussions of furries and such like to the Community or Humour forums - or perhaps, Social Issues.


This threads' topic is a review of LCFC.

The reviewer does provide a basic outline of the film, which is appreciated:


Quote:
The ISI, Able Danger, Cynthia McKinney, the intelligence failures, war games, drills etc all feature in the first half of this marathon truth production.

The rumors that LCFC is mostly LIHOP appear to be correct.

I did have to wonder about this part:


Quote:
Lastly the national debt is covered and how it has dramatically increased for no apparent reason.

It's a complete mystery to me, as well; couldn't have anything to do with a war and tax cuts could it?