Debunkers Taking Huge Hits But Persist

[Astute Perspicuous]

Debunkers not so quick to attack respected intelligence & foreign policy expert Robert Baer.

Former NFL Star Latest To Question 9/11 Official Story
Ex-Dallas Cowboys lineman Stepnoski tells Indiana newspaper of doubts.

Former high-level officials challenge the conventional explanation of how and why the Twin Towers came down. A 2,000 word article, Seven CIA Veterans Challenge 9/11 Commission Report, appeared September 23, 2007.

So where does it go from here?

Looks like the word's out on 911 but yet these certain people (so called debunkers) blindly persist ignoring all said evidence, experts, engineers, and everything else.

So when does it become official for you people? Never I suppose. You could actually have Bill Oreilly and Sean Hannity say 911 was a total inside job and then you will call even them nuts.

Seriously, you guys have lost. Bow out with some dignity and grace, admit you were all wrong like true men, and start being part of the solution and not the problem.

or;

Continue to look stupid, narrow minded, and fighting for a since long dead lost cause that you can't win.

The 911 truthers win be default. Why?

Because they grow and grow and grow and every time they add a person, that means that you subtract one.

but;

The door does not swing both ways. Very, very, and I mean very few people have become 911 truthers and gone back to being a none believer.

so;

Esentially it means you lose by attrition. Eventually there will none of you left!

You were destined to fail from the start. Not your fault that you blindly let fear and nationalism and patriotism guide you like Australian Sheep Hound does his flock. You were tricked.

The world will forgive you. But there may be a bunch of funny jokes made about you to replace the polish jokes once told on lunch breaks around the water cooler.

[quixotecoyote]

Good lord! Not Ex-Dallas Cowboys lineman Stepnoski!

:faint:

[ref]

You were destined to fail from the start. Not your fault that you blindly let fear and nationalism and patriotism guide you like Australian Sheep Hound does his flock. You were tricked.


Then, if I'm was a Finnish patriot, what would it have to do with guiding me on the topic of 9/11?

Do I fear our bloodthirsty Finnish leaders? Do they take our freedoms?

[Astute Perspicuous]

I love how you pick the one least qualified guy out of the statements I made.

I love how you avoided the main issue. Like usual.

[Dog Town]

The 911 truthers win be default. Why?

Because they grow and grow and grow

Yes,staying in their parents basement, will add to their girth! Point?

[Astute Perspicuous]

I never said I was a 911 truther.

Just been studying this from a third person perspective and truth be told the truthers are kicking your butts.

[quixotecoyote]

Between you and the other two perspectives, that's a whole truther protest right there!

[Diagoras]

The door does not swing both ways. Very, very, and I mean very few people have become 911 truthers and gone back to being a none believer.
I'm one of them. We're out there.

Yes, it's true that people who believe that crap are generally too closed-minded to ever change their mind. Does that mean you're going to win? No. You'll convince a whole bunch of gullible people until people lose interest in the Bush administration in a few years. And eventually you guys will get old and start to die off, like the people who claim the moon landing was a hoax are starting to die off now, and like the people who thought the Lincoln assassination was an inside job died off long ago.

[quixotecoyote]

What was your main point anyway? It appeared to be "YAY TROOFERISM"

[Astute Perspicuous]

Sorry...but the question is this?

Is it not fact that every time another person becomes a truther you guys lose one?

[Astute Perspicuous]

I'm one of them. We're out there.

Yes, it's true that people who believe that crap are generally too closed-minded to ever change their mind. Does that mean you're going to win? No. You'll convince a whole bunch of gullible people until people lose interest in the Bush administration in a few years. And eventually you guys will get old and start to die off, like the people who claim the moon landing was a hoax are starting to die off now, and like the people who thought the Lincoln assassination was an inside job died off long ago.

Sorry, once again I never said I was a truther.

What I am is an observer who is seeing you guys shrink and those guys gain.

Calls um likes I sees um

[quixotecoyote]

Tai Chi! We need you! This guy's asking questions about an Organized Skeptical Movement.

[Diagoras]

And what do you propose we do about that? Surely it isn't desirable for people to believe in demonstrable falsehoods like the 9/11 conspiracy.

Besides, it's not like 9/11 conspiracy "debunkers" are turning into conspiracy theorists. People who cling onto the conspiracy bandwagon are generally people who have never looked at the events of 9/11 in detail before watching some dumb movie like Loose Change or In Plane Sight. The skeptics tend to stay skeptics, and the troofers tend to stay troofers, but I must admit the troofers have better PR for convincing the fence-sitters. For most people, skepticism just isn't as exciting as thinking you're uncovering a huge secret, and I'm not sure too much can be done about that.

[Astute Perspicuous]

So you really think it was just a big coincidence that Rumsfeld goes before Congress and admits 2.3 trillion missing the day before 911?

[Astute Perspicuous]

Another big hit for debunkers.

NIST reports still they can't figure out about building 7.

[gtc]

Please explain your understanding of how Australian sheep dogs (they are not called hounds) guide sheep.

[jhunter1163]

Continue to look stupid, narrow minded, and fighting for a since long dead lost cause that you can't win.

And you say you're not a truther?

This statement absolutely pinned my industrial-strength irony-meter. The so-called "Truth" movement has nothing. Nothing whatsoever. Every piece of so-called "evidence" that is trotted out has been debunked, thoroughly, repeatedly and convincingly. Convincingly, that is, except to the few hundred die-hard Twoofers who are still trying to make a buck off of the deaths of 3,000 people.

The Truth movement is not growing. It is in its death throes; the few remaining adherents are trying to align themselves with other protest movements in a desperate bid to gain visibility. And they're failing, as no one wants to be associated with such an obvious fraud as 9/11 "Truth".

Come 9/11/08, my guess is there'll be less than 100 so-called "Truthers" at Ground Zero. There might be a spike in interest around the 10th anniversary, but after that the movement will slide into the same dustbin where JFK conspiracies, Moon hoaxers and flat-earthers reside.

ETA: Diagoras beat me to some of this, but it's still valid.

[gtc]

So you really think it was just a big coincidence that Rumsfeld goes before Congress and admits 2.3 trillion missing the day before 911?

What do you think?

[quixotecoyote]

Only the same coincidence when Bush 'accidentally' said 'we' instead of 'they' when talking about the attack.

[jhunter1163]

Are you going to get around to actually making a claim, Astute, or are you just going to "neener neener" like the rest of your Twoofer buddies?

[gtc]

Why don't you start again and actually make a claim that can be discussed.

[jhunter1163]

And our massive piles of evidence. Don't forget about the massive piles of evidence.

[quixotecoyote]

Our HUGGGGGGGEE ...... piles of evidence.

[Matthew Best]

Did he say "even" Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity????

I call them nuts already. No need for them to go 9/11 bonkers first.

[jhunter1163]

Is it just me, or does Asstoot not have a point? He's just basically saying "we're so awesome, you guys are so wrong, nyah nyah nyah." He hasn't made a claim, he just pointed out that we lost Stepnoski in the OP, which I'm not losing any sleep over, myself.

[leftysergeant]

There is just one thing that the twoofers forgot to do when Baer surfaced. They forgot to show us where he offers any proof of anything.

Wouldn't Baer have already been out of the CIA and thus not have access to most of what we would have to consider reliable evidence before 9/11?

And who is Steponski and why should I give a rat's?

[jhunter1163]

Stepnoski is a former NFL football player (for the Cowboys). This tells me that 1) he's probably not very bright to start with and 2) he's been hit on the head a lot over the years.

Draw your own conclusions.

[orphia nay]

Debunkers not so quick to attack respected intelligence & foreign policy expert Robert Baer.

Former NFL Star Latest To Question 9/11 Official Story
Ex-Dallas Cowboys lineman Stepnoski tells Indiana newspaper of doubts.

Former high-level officials challenge the conventional explanation of how and why the Twin Towers came down. A 2,000 word article, Seven CIA Veterans Challenge 9/11 Commission Report, appeared September 23, 2007.

So where does it go from here?

<snip handwaving>

Twoofers feel so frustrated at their lack of evidence that they get themselves into a frenzy when someone with even the slightest pedigree endorses da twoof, hoping their delusions and paranoia will be cleared up. But these new names just JAQ off like every other twoofer, and the conspiracy nutjobs are still stuck in their delusional miasma of twoof.

I've just seen something similar to the OP at another woo/twoofy forum, where I posted this about Baer:

So what? We've been saying all along that there are nutjobs and fruitcakes all the way to the top. The percentage of "official" people in the twoof movement is comparable to the percentage of officials with psychoses in general society.

And Baer is even an ex-expert, as are most "experts" in the twoof movement. Barrett, Ryan, Judy Wood and Steven Jones for example.

Ex-spurts. :rolleyes:

[leftysergeant]

Stepnoski is a former NFL football player (for the Cowboys). This tells me that 1) he's probably not very bright to start with and 2) he's been hit on the head a lot over the years.

Draw your own conclusions.

I never did consider football players (whether we are talking about what we call football or what the rest of the world calls football) neccessarily bright. They just need to be able to follow simple instructions.

I accepted a lot of risks being a fire fighter, but I knew there was a good reason for doing something that no person really mindful of his own hide would take. But to voluntarily risk the sorts of injuries that such a violent sport entails just for the jazz....

So why should anyone be shocked he went twoofer?

[quixotecoyote]

I'm gonna step in for the jocks here, even though I in no way resemble one. There's plenty of smart athletes out there.

[chillzero]

Keep it civil, and on topic, please

[Normal Dude]

Debunkers not so quick to attack respected intelligence & foreign policy expert Robert Baer.

Former NFL Star Latest To Question 9/11 Official Story
Ex-Dallas Cowboys lineman Stepnoski tells Indiana newspaper of doubts.

Former high-level officials challenge the conventional explanation of how and why the Twin Towers came down. A 2,000 word article, Seven CIA Veterans Challenge 9/11 Commission Report, appeared September 23, 2007.

So where does it go from here?



In this thread? Only downhill.

[jhunter1163]

Agreed, but even so, there's no reason we should take Stepnoski's opinion any more seriously than James Brolin's or Charlie Sheen's. He's not an engineer or a scientist, he's a football player.

(in Seinfeld voice) Not that there's anything wrong with that...

[Gravy]

So you really think it was just a big coincidence that Rumsfeld goes before Congress and admits 2.3 trillion missing the day before 911?"Astute," eh? Read. Learn. Apologize. (http://www.911myths.com/html/rumsfeld__9_11_and__2_3_trilli.html)

Oh, and,
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790472cf48df01de.jpg


http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/87904670cd1dc0fcb.jpg
Go get 'em, Astute! Go get 'em, tiger! Grrrr!

[Dave Rogers]

What do you think?

What David Ray Griffin tells him to think.

Dave

[Plantfoam]

OH NOES! THEY GOT TOPPER HARLEY TOO!!!!111

http://www.releaseinfo.net/ri/cover/new_velka/1172853556-hotshots2.jpg

[The Doc]

So how does the number of people pushing a theory make that theory true or false? Argument ad populum, look it up.

[boloboffin]

Chillzero, I don't mean to be a pain. But isn't "nyah-nyah-na-nyah-nyah" the actual topic?

[The Doc]

So how does the number of people pushing a theory make that theory true or false? Argument ad populum, look it up.

[JAStewart]

Smells like socks to me.

Seriously though, no-one looking at this from a 3rd perspective would say the twoofies are winning. They are blatantly not. Only a twoofie would think they're winning.

[The Doc]

Apologies for the double post on the previous page.

The OP seems to be basing his opinion of who's "winning" based on the numbers of people involved on each "side" of the debate. What he/she should be doing, is basing their opinion on which team has a better representation of facts and evidence.

To the OP, if you think the truthers are winning, name one argument of theirs that still stands and has not been debunked.

[Mobyseven]

Keep it civil, and on topic, please

What topic? I generally have a fair bit of patience, but this thread is just some guy coming along and going, "I'm not a truther, but us truthers are kickin' yo ass! Also, some gridiron player agrees with us about the inside job thing. Also, wisecrack about Australian sheep 'hounds'."

If you can find a topic to stick to, excellent. I certainly couldn't.

[Brainache]

Well according to Mr Perspicuous (?) the number of Truthers is growing daily as more and more of us sheeple stumble into the light of 9/11 Inside Jobbiness.

I would just like to state for the record that if that ever happens to me, you have my permission to scoop out my brain and use my skull for a jelly mold, coz that's all it would be good for at that point.

[gumboot]

Ex-spurts. :rolleyes:


Conspiracy Theorists don't have experts, they have ex-sports.

-Gumboot

[chillzero]

OK. .I see the topic as being whether or not the truth movement is growing at the expense of the debunkers.

However, if you cannot see a topic worth discussing, then let the thread die. Don't fill it with posts that need to be moved out to AAH.

[Dave Rogers]

Former NFL Star Latest To Question 9/11 Official Story
Ex-Dallas Cowboys lineman Stepnoski tells Indiana newspaper of doubts.


I suspect he's the one who's been "Taking Huge Hits". Linemen get quite a few to the head in the course of an NFL career.

So when does it become official for you people? Never I suppose. You could actually have Bill Oreilly and Sean Hannity say 911 was a total inside job and then you will call even them nuts.

They're the two right wing nuts, right? We don't get them over here, but if they say 911 was a total inside job then I'll be happy to carry on calling them nuts.

The door does not swing both ways. Very, very, and I mean very few people have become 911 truthers and gone back to being a none believer.

That is neither astute nor perspicuous. There are actually four possible states of mind to consider here:
(a) Not questioning the generally accepted account of 9-11 at all.
(b) Looking at the evidence in detail and accepting the views of the truth movement.
(c) Looking at the evidence in detail and rejecting the views of the truth movement.
(d) Frank Greening, who loves to keep us guessing.

Most people start from (a). There are plenty of examples of people going from (a) to (b), of course, as witness the existence of the truth movement. There are plenty of examples of people going from (a) directly to (c), as witness the existence of the debunking movement. There are examples (Diagoras has already pointed out to you that he's one) of people going from (b) to (c). However, I have yet to see a non-fictitious example of anyone going from (c) to (b). In other words, there seem to be no debunkers-turned truthers.

What this suggests to me is that there is an evolution of understanding here. Lack of understanding leads to acceptance of the consensus without examination. Partial understanding can, of course, lead to an erroneous sense of certainty on either side. But if full understanding led to an appreciation that 9-11 was an inside job, there would be appreciable numbers of intelligent people, formerly convinced of the generally accepted account by a partial study of the evidence, who had then found out more and switched over to the truth movement. And that progression is what ensures the eventual death of the movement; the fact that more knowledge convinces people of its falsity.

Please feel free to prove me wrong. Give me the screen names of people who have formerly contributed to the debate on the debunker side, then switched to the truth movement. Show me their arguments before and after conversion, so I can tell that they're genuine. Until you can do that, then your illusion of growth is no more than transitory.

And that's the topic.

Dave

[Mancman]

An NFL player? That's who should be telling us about international terrorism and the dynamics of plane crashes and skyscraper collapse.

[BenBurch]

My Dog! What a load of custard!

You think your movement is GROWING?

You've not paid any attention.

All indicators are that you have tanked, and your malevolent little fairy tale has been rejected by all honest and educated people.


Sales of 9/11 conspiracy material have dried up; At Amazon, David Ray Griffin's nasty little book is #5,195 in sales; The very excellent Popular Mechanics book (which having been out longer should have lower sales) is #1,991!
A poll commissioned by your "movement" determined that support has dropped.
What, did you have 50 people TOTAL at your 9/11 site protest this year? (And that is if you count the curious onlookers!) You had five times that last year, you know.
Even Dylan Avery says he's giving up making Conspiracy movies. He therefore doesn't appear to even believe this crap himself, but of course has a financial interest in not publicly giving up the "movement."


This will vanish as quickly as the fear over Senator Joseph R. McCarthy’s "List of Names" did once Joseph Welch asked;

"Have you no shred of decency, sir? Have you no shame?"

And Astute Perspicuous, I ask that now of you and by proxy your whole Corrupt Organization. When are you going to stop bothering decent people?

[DGM]

The 911 truthers win be default. Why?

Because they grow and grow and grow and every time they add a person, that means that you subtract one.


It doesn't quite work this way. You don't consider the overwhelming number of people that don't know the "truth" movement exists.

I don't personally know anyone who knows or has met a "truther". The movement for the most part exists only on the internet. The only people that see it are those who are looking to find it.

[BenBurch]

It doesn't quite work this way. You don't consider the overwhelming number of people that don't know the "truth" movement exists.

I don't personally know anyone who knows or has met a "truther". The movement for the most part exists only on the internet. The only people that see it are those who are looking to find it.

My brother is one, and a Libertarian too. :(

[SDC]

I was a little suspicious of the second word in his screen name -- "perspicuous" -- but it does exist. However, "perspicacious" is more common and a stronger word, meaning astute, clever, shrewd, "acutely insightful and wise" per the FreeDictionary online. "Perspicuous" means "clearly presented and easy to understand." Both come from the Latin, perspicere (vb.) "to see through."

Yoo-hoo, AP: I think you meant to use Perspicacious, not Perspicuous.

Few things are better than starting a day off (election day!) with a quick hit from the dictionary. Damnation!

[Mobyseven]

Okay then, if the topic is to be that the truth movement is growing - exponentially, linearly, logarithmicly (is that a word?), whatever - at the expense of the debunkers I put forward a challenge to AP: Find ten people who were demonstrably debunkers once (i.e., there is some kind of evidence that they actually were once debunkers), and get them to say so in this thread.

You say that every day more debunkers become truthers - this should therefore be an easy task for you.

[T.A.M.]

I never said I was a 911 truther.

Just been studying this from a third person perspective and truth be told the truthers are kicking your butts.

ROFLMAO

Next!

TAM:)

[Dave Rogers]

ROFLMAO

TAM, why are you dressing up as Swing Dangler?

Dave

[BenBurch]

TAM, why are you dressing up as Swing Dangler?

Dave

That's a Guy Fawkes mask.

[Bell]

TAM, why are you dressing up as Swing Dangler?

Dave

They got him :eek:

[JimBenArm]

My daughters had a Mary Kay party the other night that had more people in attendance than the twoofers can get at any rally. And this movement is growing? Okay, if you say so...

[Dave Rogers]

That's a Guy Fawkes mask.

That's just what they want you to think.

Dave

[defaultdotxbe]

Well according to Mr Perspicuous (?) the number of Truthers is growing daily as more and more of us sheeple stumble into the light of 9/11 Inside Jobbiness.

I would just like to state for the record that if that ever happens to me, you have my permission to scoop out my brain and use my skull for a jelly mold, coz that's all it would be good for at that point.
i think that has to happen before you become a truther

[my_wan]

...
Esentially it means you lose by attrition. Eventually there will none of you left!
...

I not a twoofer and never will be. I win!

[Drudgewire]

Dear God guys, have we considered the worst-case scenario?

WHAT IF RYAN LEAF STARTS QUESTIONING THE OFFICIAL VERSION?! :eye-poppi

[BenBurch]

i think that has to happen before you become a truther

See!? It all goes back to sufficient public funding for neonatal and pediatric health care and child welfare services!

[firecoins]

So when does it become official for you people? Never I suppose. You could actually have Bill Oreilly and Sean Hannity say 911 was a total inside job and then you will call even them nuts.
They don't call 9/11 an inside job AND I think they are nuts. Yet it has nothing to do with 9/11.

[Comsat Angel]

Is it the half-term holidays somewhere?

There seems to be a problem with Astute's grammar and spelling, not to mention general perception and logic.

[defaultdotxbe]

has any debunker ever turned truther? ive turned a truther to a debunker, but ive never heard any stories the other way (bearing in mind of course that non-truther does not automatically mean debunker, i would say the vast majority fit neither label)

[BenBurch]

has any debunker ever turned truther? ive turned a truther to a debunker, but ive never heard any stories the other way (bearing in mind of course that non-truther does not automatically mean debunker, i would say the vast majority fit neither label)

I'm sure they are inventing some now!

[JimBenArm]

I'm sure they are inventing some now!
Well, no, they don't invent them! Remember the thread from just a couple of weeks ago with the ex-debunker? Oh, wait, that was a parody. Then there was, uhm, hold on, dagnabit, I know there has to be one here somewhere. Honey, have you seen where I left the "debunker-turned-twoofer"? Oh, yeah, right next to the unicorns and MILDEC cloak...

[kookbreaker]

has any debunker ever turned truther? ive turned a truther to a debunker, but ive never heard any stories the other way (bearing in mind of course that non-truther does not automatically mean debunker, i would say the vast majority fit neither label)

In other modes of woowoo there are always a few people who claim to be skeptical until they see Uri bend a spoon or John Edward guess that their Grandma's name started with a 'K'. These people are not really skeptical, they are merely beleivers who were not exposed to the woo as of yet.

The "truth" movement does have a host of people who claim they beleived The Official Story, until they watched CT Youtube video #234-Rev. D.

But, in the same way that 'being skeptical' and being a critical thinker are different in the land of woo, just beleiving 'The Official Story' does not make one a debunker of troother nonsense.

That often comes with critical thinking skills (something lacking in troothers, which why they think that lying about not being a truther will fool anyone) as well as revulsion over the antics, claims and tactics of the disgusting 'truth' movement.

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

Sorry, once again I never said I was a truther.

What I am is an observer who is seeing you guys shrink and those guys gain.

Calls um likes I sees um

So you call 4.6% a clear majority?

So who's sock puppet are you?

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

Ya know there's a gay WWE wrestler who's a MIHOPer.

Good to see truthers have such intellectual company.

[BenBurch]

a gay WWE wrestler

...not that there is anything wrong with that. :)

[ElMondoHummus]

Good God, people. The OP was just a troll. This should've been AAH'ed on the first post.

This guy's not even presenting any real facts. Let's let this thread's sillyness die off.

[MarkyX]

...not that there is anything wrong with that. :)

I have nothing against gay people either, but WWE? Blah :boggled:

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

...not that there is anything wrong with that. :)

Exactly...

But considering how much a sausage fest the truther movement is... I bet he makes some of them feel funny in their pants.

Chris Kanyon that's the guy. He's all over www.sternfannetwork.com and is a convert to trutherism because of "zietgeist".

[Hyperviolet]

NIST reports still they can't figure out about building 7.


Looks like the word's out on 911 but yet these certain people (so called debunkers) blindly persist ignoring all said evidence, experts, engineers, and everything else.

So you really think it was just a big coincidence that Rumsfeld goes before Congress and admits 2.3 trillion missing the day before 911?

You were destined to fail from the start. Not your fault that you blindly let fear and nationalism and patriotism guide you like Australian Sheep Hound does his flock. You were tricked.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I never said I was a 911 truther.

Sure you aren't.

[Hellbound]

Just for fun,

Look up the numbers for the largest truther rally held last year in the U.S. (or worldwide, heck).

Look up the numbers for the largest "furry" convention held last year.

Compare.

Even better, look up the numbers for ALL the conventions for each held during the year.

Sorry, truthers are outnumbered by people that like to dress up as animals and rub each other.

[CHF]

What exactly is this notion of a "growing movement" based on?

Poll results? Nope.

Massive protests? Nope.

Web traffic? Nope.

An active imagination? Ding, ding ding!!! We have a winner!

[Molinaro]

I never said I was a 911 truther.

Just been studying this from a third person perspective and truth be told the truthers are kicking your butts.

I accept this as proof of your innability to spot a rational argument.

[Wowbagger]

The truthers can have all the sports stars they want.

We* have the vast majority of experts in explosives, terrorism, physics, structural engineering, and critical thinking. If they are all lying when they claim there is no evidence of an inside job, they would all be complacent with mass murder.

We* also, curiously enough, have a rather alarming number of top-Bush bashers: Al Gore, Bill Clinton, John Kerry, Bill Marr, various heads of other countries. Why is it that the folks with the most to gain from exposing a Bush-administration inside job, are not saying he was involved in a 9/11 inside job?

(* By "we" am referring to all the various people who do not have any serious doubts about the "official story", not just the JREFers.)

[Pardalis]

Who's sockpuppet is this one?

:socks:

[Firestone]

It's a bizarre misconception.

Yesterday a truther on a Belgian forum wrote:
Wat mij nog het meest opvalt dat er nu zo veel zijn in de VS die nu geloven dat het een inside job was en toch komt er zo weinig van in de mainstream media. En hier helemaal niets. Je moet het allemaal van internet halen, ER KLOPT TOCH IETS NIET!That translate's to:
What strikes me most is that so many now in the US believe it was an inside job, yet so little of it reaches the mainstream media. And here [meaning in Belgium] absolutely nothing. You have to get it all from the Internet, SOMETHING ISN'T RIGHT HERE.And he has no clue what, apparently. :)

[BenBurch]

...
And he has no clue what, apparently. :)

So Close!

[The Silver Shadow]

The truthers can have all the sports stars they want...
...but please leave the F1 stars be :D

[rwguinn]

I never did consider football players (whether we are talking about what we call football or what the rest of the world calls football) neccessarily bright. They just need to be able to follow simple instructions.

I accepted a lot of risks being a fire fighter, but I knew there was a good reason for doing something that no person really mindful of his own hide would take. But to voluntarily risk the sorts of injuries that such a violent sport entails just for the jazz....

So why should anyone be shocked he went twoofer?

Thppp Thppp
Our 8 O AND D Linemen graduated in the top 5% of our High school class, went to college.
2 became Doctors of Medicine. 4 are engineers at senior levels (including myself)
Our QB, otoh, had to take the ACT 4 times to get an 18...

Stereotypes are always wrong, you Liberal, you!:D

[defaultdotxbe]

It's a bizarre misconception.

Yesterday a truther on a Belgian forum wrote:
That translate's to:
And he has no clue what, apparently. :)
and naturally this is only further proof that the media is aiding in the coverup

[milesalpha]

Exactly...

But considering how much a sausage fest the truther movement is... I bet he makes some of them feel funny in their pants.

Chris Kanyon that's the guy. He's all over www.sternfannetwork.com and is a convert to trutherism because of "zietgeist".

Just to defend the good name of the WWE...ok just because I am a wrasslin' fan (since 1968, I'm a lost cause). I have to point out that Kanyon was heaved out of the WWE years ago after a stay that amounted to a cup of coffee. He subsequently appeared on Howard Stern's show accusing the WWE of homophobia. A shallow assertion for anyone who knows some of the history (one of their head bookers over the last two decades is Pat Patterson, who has been out of the closet for ages) of the WWE. Now if the Undertaker said it, maybe I'd be impressed, not convinced but impressed.

[Dr Adequate]

Sorry, once again I never said I was a truther. So, are we to take it that:

(a) you believe the OCT?

(b) you are a truther but you're too cowardly and ashamed of yourself to admit it?

[Astute Perspicuous]

That's exactly why those truthers are winning, because you keep avoiding issues.

I made a statement where I said Robert Baer, who we all know is a lifelong career CIA guy who is respected throughout the intelligence community.

I mentioned a football player.

Does anyone even address the issues with Robert Baer? No, you people avoid them.

That has been proven throughout this entire thread.

Thank you guys for proving my point so perfectly just as expected.

[The Doc]

That's exactly why those truthers are winning, because you keep avoiding issues.

I made a statement where I said Robert Baer, who we all know is a lifelong career CIA guy who is respected throughout the intelligence community.

I meantion a football player.

Does anyone even address the issues with Robert Baer? No, you people avoid them.

That has been proven throughout this entire thread.

Thank you guys for proving my point so perfectly just as expected.

What issues raised by Robert Baer have not been addressed that you would like to see the "debunking community" address?

[Dr Adequate]

Sorry, truthers are outnumbered by people that like to dress up as animals and rub each other. Well, it makes more sense.

[Pardalis]

Pdoherty Astute, do you have a statement from Baer, a link, something?

I know he wrote this book (http://www.amazon.com/Sleeping-Devil-Washington-Saudi-Crude/dp/1400050219), but what did he say specifically about 9/11 being an inside job?

[Dr Adequate]

That's exactly why those truthers are winning... No, I think they're winning 'cos of their vast cohorts of winged monkeys. Those flying simians defeat us every time.

Sheesh, what's the weather like on your planet? They're a tiny bunch of pathetic nuts.

[Gorgonian]

It is a fairly common phenomenon that people in an internet community overestimate their population and importance/influence. This is basically all that is happening here.

[Astute Perspicuous]

What issues raised by Robert Baer have not been addressed that you would like to see the "debunking community" address?


I would like to know how you can dispute a 20 year insider that says "evidence points 911 having the aspects of being an inside job".

You can't dispute that. He is an insider. He may have his hands on evidence you have clearly never seen.

It's been funny watching this war between you guys. Funny indeed.

[JimBenArm]

That's exactly why those truthers are winning, because you keep avoiding issues.

I made a statement where I said Robert Baer, who we all know is a lifelong career CIA guy who is respected throughout the intelligence community.

I mentioned a football player.

Does anyone even address the issues with Robert Baer? No, you people avoid them.

That has been proven throughout this entire thread.

Thank you guys for proving my point so perfectly just as expected.
Why do you assume I know who he is? I've never heard of him until your post. Is there some reason I should care what his opinion is? Is there something special about it that renders physics suddenly meaningless? Suspends cause-and-effect? Cures ring-around-the-collar? Just what is special about this guy that I should give a hoot what he has to say?

[Disbelief]

I made a statement where I said Robert Baer, who we all know is a lifelong career CIA guy who is respected throughout the intelligence community.



Could you please make this a complete sentence so we know what yuo are saying.

Does Baer say something? Can you link it? Can you gives us something a bit less vague?

[Pardalis]

OK Astute, you can post links now. Let's go.

[JamesB]

So you really think it was just a big coincidence that Rumsfeld goes before Congress and admits 2.3 trillion missing the day before 911?

Of all the side issues you possibly could have brought up, you had to bring up the stupidest most ignorant, and least fact based one you could find.

http://www.911myths.com/html/rumsfeld__9_11_and__2_3_trilli.html

And yet you claim to be some neutral observer. Yeah, right.

BTW This is the first time anyone has ever added the claim that he announced this before Congress. Usually they just lie and say it was a press conference. Congratulations for adding to troofer legend.

[furrod]

The percentage of "official" people in the twoof movement is comparable to the percentage of officials with psychoses in general society.


I would like to be able to use this info. Is there a source for this?

[JimBenArm]

I would like to know how you can dispute a 20 year insider that says "evidence points 911 having the aspects of being an inside job".

You can't dispute that. He is an insider. He may have his hands on evidence you have clearly never seen.

It's been funny watching this war between you guys. Funny indeed.
He might. He also could be as phony as a three-dollar bill, nutty as a fruitcake, or just another liar exaggerating his credentials. How about providing proof that:
1. He's who you say he is.
2. He said what you claim.
From there, we'll see if there's anything here other than the usual nonsense. Not that I have any doubts...(yeah, right!)

[Brainster]

The door does not swing both ways. Very, very, and I mean very few people have become 911 truthers and gone back to being a none believer.

That's true only because very few people have become 9-11 fruitcakes (4.6% according to Zogby). But if you're saying that nobody ever learns from us and repents their 9-11 kookery, it's not true (http://extruther.blogspot.com).

[TShaitanaku]

Please feel free to prove me wrong. Give me the screen names of people who have formerly contributed to the debate on the debunker side, then switched to the truth movement. Show me their arguments before and after conversion, so I can tell that they're genuine. Until you can do that, then your illusion of growth is no more than transitory.

And that's the topic.

Dave

Precisely which varient of the twoof would this be? There seem to be so many, cruise missiles, missiles, missile pods, explosives, Israelis, CIA, Neocon, hollywood, (even UFOs!) etc., etc.,. The "Truth Movement" seems more a collage of widespread and often conflicting conceptualizations that are only tied together very loosely by the actual and indisputable tragedies of 9/11.

[chipmunk stew]

I would like to know how you can dispute a 20 year insider that says "evidence points 911 having the aspects of being an inside job".
Since you put that inside quotation marks, I assume you have a source for that quote. Since you have >15 posts, you can now post links.

Please post a link showing where Baer said: "evidence points 911 having the aspects of being an inside job"
You can't dispute that. He is an insider. He may have his hands on evidence you have clearly never seen.

Of course you can dispute it. Same as you can dispute ex-CIA guys who say they've seen secret evidence that extraterrestrials have been visiting our planet. I don't care who you are--if you can't provide the evidenc, I have no reason to believe you.

[anticonspiracy911]

Debunkers not so quick to attack respected intelligence & foreign policy expert Robert Baer.

Former NFL Star Latest To Question 9/11 Official Story
Ex-Dallas Cowboys lineman Stepnoski tells Indiana newspaper of doubts.

Former high-level officials challenge the conventional explanation of how and why the Twin Towers came down. A 2,000 word article, Seven CIA Veterans Challenge 9/11 Commission Report, appeared September 23, 2007.

So where does it go from here?

Looks like the word's out on 911 but yet these certain people (so called debunkers) blindly persist ignoring all said evidence, experts, engineers, and everything else.

So when does it become official for you people? Never I suppose. You could actually have Bill Oreilly and Sean Hannity say 911 was a total inside job and then you will call even them nuts.

Seriously, you guys have lost. Bow out with some dignity and grace, admit you were all wrong like true men, and start being part of the solution and not the problem.

or;

Continue to look stupid, narrow minded, and fighting for a since long dead lost cause that you can't win.

The 911 truthers win be default. Why?

Because they grow and grow and grow and every time they add a person, that means that you subtract one.

but;

The door does not swing both ways. Very, very, and I mean very few people have become 911 truthers and gone back to being a none believer.

so;

Esentially it means you lose by attrition. Eventually there will none of you left!

You were destined to fail from the start. Not your fault that you blindly let fear and nationalism and patriotism guide you like Australian Sheep Hound does his flock. You were tricked.

The world will forgive you. But there may be a bunch of funny jokes made about you to replace the polish jokes once told on lunch breaks around the water cooler.


Here, I made a poem out of your idiocy:

Debunkers not so quick to attack doubts
Challenge the conventional explanation
Of how and why the twin towers came down
So where does it go from here?

Word's out on 911
But blindly persist all said evidence
Even experts and everything else

When does it become official for you people?
Seriously, you guys have lost
Continue to look stupid and narrow-minded
The truthers win by default
Why?
They add one while you subtract one
This does not swing the other way
So eventually there will be none of you left
Destined to fail from the start
But the world will forgive you


So the conclusion of this nonsensical topic is: '9/11 Truthers win because they gain one while you lose one.' Wow. Appeal to the bandwagon much? You have not provided any evidence to explain why we've lost. But nice try.

I'm assuming this is where you throw out a pseudo-fact that you copy and paste off the Prison Planet website. It's ok, I get those all the time in my comments section on my youtube videos.

[Dr Adequate]

That's true only because very few people have become 9-11 fruitcakes (4.6% according to Zogby). Whereas 7% believe that Elvis is alive ...

[Dave Rogers]

OK, Astute Perspicuous, let's see what information you've posted about Robert Baer for us to debunk.

Debunkers not so quick to attack respected intelligence & foreign policy expert Robert Baer.

We're not so quick to attack him because we've got no idea what he may or may not have said about 9-11.

I made a statement where I said Robert Baer, who we all know is a lifelong career CIA guy who is respected throughout the intelligence community.

I know no such thing, but assuming it's correct, all you've said you said was "Robert Baer". And, looking at your first post, that is indeed all you said. The subtlety of this argument is lost on me: "Robert Baer, therefore 9-11 was an inside job"? One or two steps missing there, such as a verb.

I would like to know how you can dispute a 20 year insider that says "evidence points 911 having the aspects of being an inside job".

You can't dispute that. He is an insider. He may have his hands on evidence you have clearly never seen.


Well, since all you seem to have, assuming that Robert Baer has said anything like what you say he has said, is an appeal to authority, one could for example dispute this statement by pointing to other 20-year insiders in the intelligence community who say that 9-11 was not an inside job. One could, for example, examine the evidence Baer himself presents to back up his hypothetical claim. One could, for example, examine other statements Baer has made and determine whether he is prone to making unusually accurate or unusually inaccurate claims. Without the slightest indication of what you're talking about, it's a little difficult to know how to answer a question you're choosing not to ask.

It's been funny watching this war between you guys. Funny indeed.

I'll await with bated breath your similar taunting of the other side on the Loose Change Forums.

Dave

[Dr Adequate]

I would like to know how you can dispute a 20 year insider that says "evidence points 911 having the aspects of being an inside job". Well, we could point out that he ceased to be an "insider" in 1997, when he gave up his job at the CIA to pursue a career writing fiction. And that he hasn't actually mentioned any specific "evidence". And that he doesn't claim to have any "evidence" not already in the public domain.

So, a writer of fiction who doesn't have any inside knowledge has fallen for the bull peddled by the twoofers.

So what?

[A W Smith]

Robert Baer is a story teller. he writes books. many books (http://books.google.com/books?ct=title&q=inauthor%3ARobert%3ABaer&btnG=Search+Books). Thats how he derives income.

dismissed

[CurtC]

There are actually four possible states of mind to consider here:
(a) Not questioning the generally accepted account of 9-11 at all.
(b) Looking at the evidence in detail and accepting the views of the truth movement.
(c) Looking at the evidence in detail and rejecting the views of the truth movement.
(d) Frank Greening, who loves to keep us guessing.

An excellent post, largely because I was going to post the same exact argument (although leaving out choice "d").

I have seen several examples right here in this forum of people going from (b) to (c), but I have never seen a single person going from (c) to (b) - never anyone who has familiarized himself with the facts enough to reject the Truther claims, becoming a Truther. Do you have any examples of such?

Unless you can come up with some, I think that completely negates the point of your having started this thread.

[16.5]

Can you explain why you are coming here simply copying and pasting the titles of Prison Planet and DU articles? A simple google reveals that your OP is little more than that.

Yet you claim that you are not a Twoofer.

Cripes, why bother lying like that?

The only thing I have been able to find about Robert Baer (who says he left the CIA in 1996) and is tired of people asking him whether 911 was a conspiracy, is a partial exerpt of a radio interview he did from a Twoofer Video. Where is the whole thing?

[milesalpha]

I did some quick reading on Baer, mid level agent who collected reports from field agents. His assertion is that the Saudi's are the real culprits behind 9/11 and that the Bush government is incapable of doing anything about it because of American oil dependence. Nothing really new in Baer's statements and most of them certainly have support from some in the mainstream. I see no evidence at all that he supports any of the conspiracy type theories. I think the thread starter is going to have to provide a link to push this chap any further.

[pomeroo]

I love how you pick the one least qualified guy out of the statements I made.

I love how you avoided the main issue. Like usual.


You mean you weren't writing a parody of typical mindless conspiracy liars?

Oh, dear. Yeah, I see now that you weren't. How unfortunate for you.

[BenBurch]

That's true only because very few people have become 9-11 fruitcakes (4.6% according to Zogby). But if you're saying that nobody ever learns from us and repents their 9-11 kookery, it's not true (http://extruther.blogspot.com).

4.6% of the American People believe in this fairy tale...

Well, they have some work to do, now, don't they? Because a Roper poll reveals that; 76% believe the government is hiding something it knows about UFOs.

37% believe that houses can be haunted! (Gallup)

9% even believe in Channelling (Gallup)

So, in terms of big-time woo, the truthies aren't even in the running!

[pomeroo]

So you really think it was just a big coincidence that Rumsfeld goes before Congress and admits 2.3 trillion missing the day before 911?


So, you were writing a parody?! I mean, twoofers are the dumbest, most ignorant dunces on the planet, but they've all abandoned this silly canard.

[Dave Rogers]

A quick Google on Robert Baer yields some interesting hits.

From Harper's Magazine, "Baeriana: a chat with Robert Baer":

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2006/06/sb-baeriana-1150920184


Baer also said that he has found a number of tantalizing leads that point to an Iranian role in the 9/11 attacks, and this Iranian connection is a central theme of Blow the House Down. For example, said Baer, circumstantial evidence suggests that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the 9/11 plot, likely met with Iranian officials in Qatar in 1996, and that Osama bin Laden and the Iranian regime began to cooperate in some ways that same year. And while the 9/11 Commission found no direct evidence to support an Iranian role in 9/11, it did report, Baer noted, that eight to ten of the hijackers transited through Iran between late 2000 and early 2001.


However, he couldn't prove the Iranian connection, so he used it as the basis for a novel. I see that when he refers to the mastermind of the 9-11 plan he mispronounces "Dick Cheney" as "Khalid Sheikh Mohammed". Odd, that.

Robert Baer, Former CIA Case Officer and Author of "Sleeping with the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude."

http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/03/09/12_baer.html


At the same time, I started running into these assessments of the oil industry, and just how much damage you could do to the processing facilities, not the pipelines, if you were a terrorist and wanted to bring the Saudis down. And then 9/11 came along, and the 15 Saudis that caused it. So I took notes about everything that I’d ever learned about Saudi Arabia and the government. And I said, this would make a book. I asked myself: Why don’t we know more about a country that’s so vital to the United States? And this is my effort at explaining that. You’d get a different perspective if you asked James Baker about it or an academic. But this is the continuation of my memoir, my gut reaction.


I wonder why he said "the 15 Saudis that caused it" rather than "the high-ranking officials in the US Government that caused it". Any ideas?

A Conspiracy Planet article denounces Baer as "a key operative among an insular (though by no means rogue) counter-terror clique involved in the formation and presentation of the Official 9/11 Legend and its off-shoots", so he's not exactly in with the conspiracy theorists on that score. His questioning of the 9-11 Commission Report seems to be limited to his concerns, as shown above, that Iran and/or Saudi Arabia had some involvement that was not uncovered, and he refers to US government involvement as a "possibility". All in all, very vague, and as someone else said, keeping the controversy up in the air helps him sell books.

Come back when you've got something interesting to talk about, by all means.

Dave

[Pardalis]

Come on people!

Let Astute give us his information.

Let him do the leg work, it's his claim.

[milesalpha]

Come on people!

Let Astute give us his information.

Let him do the leg work, it's his claim.

Er I am not a young man any more, and given my atrocious personal addictions, I haven't got that kind of time.

[Alferd_Packer]

Dear God guys, have we considered the worst-case scenario?

WHAT IF RYAN LEAF STARTS QUESTIONING THE OFFICIAL VERSION?! :eye-poppi


What about, Kevin Bacon?

how many degrees would that make us all?

[Dave Rogers]

Come on people!

Let Astute give us his information.

Let him do the leg work, it's his claim.

Aaah, spoilsport. Prebunking can be fun.

Dave

[twinstead]

See how easy it is to be a truther. All it takes is one simple line:

I would like to know how you can dispute a 20 year insider that says "evidence points 911 having the aspects of being an inside job"

To convince those who don't mind being told what to think and there you have it--'smoking gun' evidence.

It takes a hell of a lot more than one sentence to show that the phrase is inaccurate, and by that time the truther is on to his next 'smoking gun'. In fact, he's probably on to the 4th one.

What's the old adage about lies being fast and truth being slow?

[calebprime]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDXurOmeJxc

Is this it?

notice waffle words like 'points to' 'aspect of' 'there's that possibility'

[Jonnyclueless]

So you really think it was just a big coincidence that Rumsfeld goes before Congress and admits 2.3 trillion missing the day before 911?

No of course you're not a truther, you're just 3rd party asking questions. I don't know what would give anyone the impression you are a truther. It's not like truthers ever come on here pretending to be 3rd parties and who only sign up just to present a truther written article pretending that the truth movement is right. It's just dumbfounding that anyone would think you are a truther. How silly of everyone. wink wink wink!

BTW, please show us a quote of Rumsfeld saying that 2.3 trillion is "missing". Remember, though, you used the word "missing". So again, provide that quote for us and we will admit it's true.

And here's a hint for you: 2.3 trillion is over 6 years of defense spending budget. meaning that much money does not even exist at any one point in time to be able to even BE missing.

But no, you aren't a truther at all... LOL

[Calcas]

This story comes from the loons at Prison Planet who put together a Bill Mahr clip. At the beginning *somebody* is heard (a radio host?) asking Robert Baer if there is an aspect to 9-11 being an inside job. Baer responds,

"There is a possibility...the evidence points at it...."

Sorry if I have to link to PP but it's the only place I can seem to watch the clip. The next minute is pretty funny with Martin Sheen attempting to intelligently discuss WTC7.

The rest of the 10 minutes is garbage.

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/november2007/051107_inside_job.htm

[Jonnyclueless]

I would like to know how you can dispute a 20 year insider that says "evidence points 911 having the aspects of being an inside job".

You can't dispute that. He is an insider. He may have his hands on evidence you have clearly never seen.

It's been funny watching this war between you guys. Funny indeed.


Perhaps it could have something to do with him not actually providing any of that claimed evidence. But of course only a low life truther would rely only on someone's claimed past resume rather than actual evidence. He may have his hands on evidence we have never seen? And he is withholding it because?

Thank God you aren't one of those idiot truthers who blurts out the most idiotic claims using absolutely no logic.

[Minadin]

What's the old adage about lies being fast and truth being slow?

Is this the one you were thinking of?

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. -- Winston Churchill

[Pardalis]

Astute should learn to do his own research, you guys are not helping by doing it for him.

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

4.6% of the American People believe in this fairy tale...


It should be less now too... As shown by "Confessions of an extruther" that one of the many things that got him over the truthiness was that 4.6% number was so low... It made him REALLY think twice and realize truthers were idiots.

I'm sure there are many more who saw that 4.6%, "woke up" and realized... "I'm an idiot for believing this truther crap!" Hell, the truthers were HAPPY to post that poll result here... until they read it and saw how low their support was.

[twinstead]

Is this the one you were thinking of?

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. -- Winston Churchill

Yup. That's the one.

[chipmunk stew]

Astute should learn to do his own research, you guys are not helping by doing it for him.
Astute's "research" led to his OP. Sometimes people need to learn by example.

[Dave Rogers]

Astute should learn to do his own research, you guys are not helping by doing it for him.

I'm working on the assumption that Astute is unlikely to have the slightest interest in doing his own research any time soon. I don't really care about the possibility that I'm making him lazier, because his posting style suggests that he hasn't got any lazier to get [1]. On the other hand, there's a possibility that some hypothetical lurker might think he's actually got some substance behind his drive-by posts and end up looking in the wrong sort of place for confirmation. There's a virtue to not letting a lie go unchallenged, however vapid and pathetic a lie it might be.

Dave

[1] Yeah, but you know what I mean.

[pomeroo]

Most of you are too young to remember the days when ex-CIA types would appear on shows like "Long John Nebel" with their "conclusive evidence" that a communist cabal in the White House had delivered China to Reds.

[twinstead]

Most of you are too young to remember the days when ex-CIA types would appear on shows like "Long John Nebel" with their "conclusive evidence" that a communist cabal in the White House had delivered China to Reds.

Ah, the Cold War. Good times....

[Pardalis]

I'm working on the assumption that Astute is unlikely to have the slightest interest in doing his own research any time soon. I don't really care about the possibility that I'm making him lazier, because his posting style suggests that he hasn't got any lazier to get [1]. On the other hand, there's a possibility that some hypothetical lurker might think he's actually got some substance behind his drive-by posts and end up looking in the wrong sort of place for confirmation. There's a virtue to not letting a lie go unchallenged, however vapid and pathetic a lie it might be.

Dave

[1] Yeah, but you know what I mean.

I hear you.

[sackett]

...Asstoot ....

Okay, Agent NWO-1163,* are YOU going to mop the coffee and macerated danish off my screen? Noooo, not you, right?

* Oops, sorry. Didn't mean to Plame you, jhunter1163.

But maybe it doesn't matter. The Tooters, I mean the Trootherz, are winning anyway.

[westprog]

I love how you pick the one least qualified guy out of the statements I made.


If the belief of one ex-NFL player was laughably insignificant, why mention it?

I love how you avoided the main issue. Like usual.

That's because everyone was terrified by the depth of the detailed analysis.

[Jonnyclueless]

You'll have to wait for a response. It's a school day.

[Brainster]

This story comes from the loons at Prison Planet who put together a Bill Mahr clip. At the beginning *somebody* is heard (a radio host?) asking Robert Baer if there is an aspect to 9-11 being an inside job. Baer responds,

"There is a possibility...the evidence points at it...."

Sorry if I have to link to PP but it's the only place I can seem to watch the clip.

It was with Thom Hartmann, and you can download a 10-minute MP3 (http://www.911podcasts.com/display.php?vid=107) here. Baer starts out talking about Iranian and Saudi involvement in 9-11, but Hartmann swings him around to the LIHOP question and Baer obliges. So if I wanted to start a site called "Patriots Suggest 9-11 An Iranian Job" to drum up support for a war with Iran, I could use him just as the fruitcakes have.

BTW, those who still believe Thom Hartmann is not a Troofer after listening to this segment are kidding themselves. Yes, I know he claims not to be; so does AP.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Astute's "research" led to his OP. Sometimes people need to learn by example.
True, but this is also look a bit like, "Hey, let's make the skeptics dance!"

[chipmunk stew]

True, but this is also look a bit like, "Hey, let's make the skeptics dance!"
Maybe. But I, for one, knew nothing of Robert Baer until this thread. Anyway, I like to dance. :D

[beachnut]

Debunkers not so quick to attack respected intelligence & foreign policy expert Robert Baer.

Former NFL Star Latest To Question 9/11 Official Story
Ex-Dallas Cowboys lineman Stepnoski tells Indiana newspaper of doubts.

Former high-level officials challenge the conventional explanation of how and why the Twin Towers came down. A 2,000 word article, Seven CIA Veterans Challenge 9/11 Commission Report, appeared September 23, 2007.

So where does it go from here?

Looks like the word's out on 911 but yet these certain people (so called debunkers) blindly persist ignoring all said evidence, experts, engineers, and everything else.

So when does it become official for you people? Never I suppose. You could actually have Bill Oreilly and Sean Hannity say 911 was a total inside job and then you will call even them nuts.

Seriously, you guys have lost. Bow out with some dignity and grace, admit you were all wrong like true men, and start being part of the solution and not the problem.

or;

Continue to look stupid, narrow minded, and fighting for a since long dead lost cause that you can't win.

The 911 truthers win be default. Why?

Because they grow and grow and grow and every time they add a person, that means that you subtract one.

but;

The door does not swing both ways. Very, very, and I mean very few people have become 911 truthers and gone back to being a none believer.

so;

Esentially it means you lose by attrition. Eventually there will none of you left!

You were destined to fail from the start. Not your fault that you blindly let fear and nationalism and patriotism guide you like Australian Sheep Hound does his flock. You were tricked.

The world will forgive you. But there may be a bunch of funny jokes made about you to replace the polish jokes once told on lunch breaks around the water cooler.
Bring on all how have doltish ideas on 9/11. What a bunch of nuts when it comes to 9/11. How many more idiots can you drag up? It is a good think not all people are as biased and stupid on 9/11 as you and your group of dolts, on 9/11.

[BenBurch]

It should be less now too... As shown by "Confessions of an extruther" that one of the many things that got him over the truthiness was that 4.6% number was so low... It made him REALLY think twice and realize truthers were idiots.

I'm sure there are many more who saw that 4.6%, "woke up" and realized... "I'm an idiot for believing this truther crap!" Hell, the truthers were HAPPY to post that poll result here... until they read it and saw how low their support was.

8% of people think Elvis is still alive... (FOX News/Opinion Dynamics)

So, the Truthies need to go get themselves some sequined suits and join a movement that might actually be going somewhere.

[CptColumbo]

What you fail to realize is that Elvis is alive and is a "twoofer." :)

[1337m4n]

OP is either a really effective troll or...nevermind.

Hey Astute...how come you ignore the testimony of Clyde Ragland?

Because you've never heard of him? Is that why?

Well, now you know how we feel.

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

Most of you are too young to remember the days when ex-CIA types would appear on shows like "Long John Nebel" with their "conclusive evidence" that a communist cabal in the White House had delivered China to Reds.

A few months ago on Digg there were people posting videos of regurgitated Soviet propaganda (in English) showing "ex-CIA agents" talking about how horrible America and it's government was. The sad thing is they weren't posting this as "Hey look at this kooky propaganda" but promoted as "Hey look, Bush and your government are lying to you!"

[Drudgewire]

What you fail to realize is that Elvis is alive and is a "twoofer." :)
I gotta hunka hunka super thermite. :dc_biggrin:

[beachnut]

I never said I was a 911 truther.

Just been studying this from a third person perspective and truth be told the truthers are kicking your butts.
Then you are as bad a researcher as all of 9/11 truth. Bad. Please present one, just one fact to support 9/11 truth conclusions.

OOPs, your vast amount of studying is worthless. A pile of dung like 9/11 truth ideas.

Just one fact to support 9/11 truth? Just one thing they got right?

"The date you say" – 9/11

I can believe truthers never become rational thinking people; you and the truth movement have a disease, it is called ignorance, the technical term is "terminalis stoliditatis"; the only cure is education.

[Undesired Walrus]

Debunkers not so quick to attack respected intelligence & foreign policy expert Robert Baer.

Former NFL Star Latest To Question 9/11 Official Story
Ex-Dallas Cowboys lineman Stepnoski tells Indiana newspaper of doubts.

Former high-level officials challenge the conventional explanation of how and why the Twin Towers came down. A 2,000 word article, Seven CIA Veterans Challenge 9/11 Commission Report, appeared September 23, 2007.

So where does it go from here?

Looks like the word's out on 911 but yet these certain people (so called debunkers) blindly persist ignoring all said evidence, experts, engineers, and everything else.

So when does it become official for you people? Never I suppose. You could actually have Bill Oreilly and Sean Hannity say 911 was a total inside job and then you will call even them nuts.

Seriously, you guys have lost. Bow out with some dignity and grace, admit you were all wrong like true men, and start being part of the solution and not the problem.

or;

Continue to look stupid, narrow minded, and fighting for a since long dead lost cause that you can't win.

The 911 truthers win be default. Why?

Because they grow and grow and grow and every time they add a person, that means that you subtract one.

but;

The door does not swing both ways. Very, very, and I mean very few people have become 911 truthers and gone back to being a none believer.

so;

Esentially it means you lose by attrition. Eventually there will none of you left!

You were destined to fail from the start. Not your fault that you blindly let fear and nationalism and patriotism guide you like Australian Sheep Hound does his flock. You were tricked.

The world will forgive you. But there may be a bunch of funny jokes made about you to replace the polish jokes once told on lunch breaks around the water cooler.

It's amusing yet how nobody has yet seen through your desperate attempt to convince yourself that the truth movement is not a metaphor for a dead bird down the shafts of a yorkshire mine, placed down there to check on the gas levels.

If you really believed any of this, and it wasn't simply an attempt to give life meaning, you would be doing this:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p297/ldl21/_44136860_march416afp1.jpg

So I ask you, where are you guys doing this?

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p297/ldl21/_44137617_treatment_afp416.jpg

Or are you simply cowards, not like this?

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p297/ldl21/_44139040_redcrossap416.jpg

I think you need to man up and ask me why you are not able to generate this.
But I'm guessing you will not reply huh?

[Undesired Walrus]

double post

[dudalb]

Most of you are too young to remember the days when ex-CIA types would appear on shows like "Long John Nebel" with their "conclusive evidence" that a communist cabal in the White House had delivered China to Reds.


Hell,remember how Clinton was hiding Foreign Troops in the National Forests to round up all the gun owners and put them in concnetration camps?
9/11 Truth is just the latest in a long line of wack conspiracy theories.
What does make it a little unusual is that it has been bought into by both Left and Right Nutjobs...whereas generally Conspiracy theories tend to play to one particular political slant.
But I had the OP pegged after his first post. 90% of the time somebody saying "I am not a truther" means he is.
As for his "debunkers are getting our butts whipped", once again images of the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail flash through my mind.
In fact, I nominate the Black Knight as the official mascot of the Truther Movement
"It's Only a Scatch1".

[dudalb]

As for Stepnoski, just another reason to hate the Dallas Cowboys.

[Aardvark422]

I'm working on the assumption that Astute is unlikely to have the slightest interest in doing his own research any time soon. I don't really care about the possibility that I'm making him lazier, because his posting style suggests that he hasn't got any lazier to get [1]. On the other hand, there's a possibility that some hypothetical lurker might think he's actually got some substance behind his drive-by posts and end up looking in the wrong sort of place for confirmation. There's a virtue to not letting a lie go unchallenged, however vapid and pathetic a lie it might be.

Dave

[1] Yeah, but you know what I mean.

I just wanted to thank you guys for doing some of AP's research for him. My dad is a diehard believer of any government conspiracy and until I found this forum, I wasn't able to argue with him and his truther friends, except to say, You are all a bunch of idiots.

Aardvark

[Drudgewire]

I wasn't able to argue with him and his truther friends, except to say, You are all a bunch of idiots.
Which is still a valid argument. :D

Welcome to JREF Aardvark.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I just wanted to thank you guys for doing some of AP's research for him. My dad is a diehard believer of any government conspiracy and until I found this forum, I wasn't able to argue with him and his truther friends, except to say, You are all a bunch of idiots.

Aardvark
Welcome to the forums. Your post implies you are now able to argue with him and his friends. How has this turned out since you have had more resources at your disposal?

[BenBurch]

Welcome Aardvark!

Remember the new guy has to buy the donuts!

[negativ]

I would like to know how you can dispute a 20 year insider that says "evidence points 911 having the aspects of being an inside job".

It's the same mechanic that allows scoffing at the former commanding General of INSCOM who thought he should be able to walk through walls if he just wished really hard.

You can't dispute that. He is an insider. He may have his hands on evidence you have clearly never seen. OR, he "may" have his hands up his... nose... elbow-deep.

And at any rate, I we *can* dispute it for many reasons, not the least of which is that you didn't say 'Simon Says'.

[Unsecured Coins]

got another Carolinian in the house!! whoop whooop!

[westprog]

I would like to know how you can dispute a 20 year insider that says "evidence points 911 having the aspects of being an inside job".

You can't dispute that. He is an insider. He may have his hands on evidence you have clearly never seen.


If history has taught us anything, it is to trust government insiders, who might just possibly have access to evidence that we aren't allowed to see. Sadly too many unpatriotic debunkers are unwilling to give government insiders this level of trust. Shoot 'em, I say.

It's been funny watching this war between you guys. Funny indeed.

It's been a great privilege to see what someone without any preconceptions makes of an unbiased examination of the evidence.

[Bell]

I would like to know how you can dispute a 20 year insider that says "evidence points 911 having the aspects of being an inside job".

That in all says nothing, except that "something suggests that parts of 9/11 looks like an inside job"

You can't dispute that.

Dispute what? That hollow statement of his?

He is an insider. He may have his hands on evidence you have clearly never seen.

How can we have seen evidence which YOU are not even sure of excist?

It's been funny watching this war between you guys. Funny indeed.

Keep watching then. But only watching.

[Jonnyclueless]

I gotta hunka hunka super thermite. :dc_biggrin:


I prefer Hunka Hunka burnin Thermite!:catfight:

Cat fight!

[Drudgewire]

I prefer Hunka Hunka burnin Thermite!:catfight:

Cat fight!
I considered that, but didn't think ignited thermite could really be broken off into hunks.

Of course, that doesn't make my alternate lyrics any less retarded. :o

[CurtC]

It's the same mechanic that allows scoffing at the former commanding General of INSCOM who thought he should be able to walk through walls if he just wished really hard.

I recall something about that. What was it? Something about goats?

[Drudgewire]

I recall something about that. What was it? Something about goats?
Ah the psy-ops and fainting goats. Man it's embarrassing how much of my money Alex Constantine got when I was "researching" that drivel. :blush:

[WildCat]

BTW, those who still believe Thom Hartmann is not a Troofer after listening to this segment are kidding themselves. Yes, I know he claims not to be; so does AP.
AP? Ara Parseghian? OMG, first Stepnoski, now Parseghian! If this is confirmed by John Madden then 9/11 must be an inside job!

[BenBurch]

But the fainting goats are real!

http://www.bellsdoxies.com/ <-- Dachshunds AND fainting goats.

I know of these people as we are Dachshund fanciers...

[BenBurch]

Oh! They seem to have split the site into a Doxie section and a Goat section; http://www.bellsgoats.com/

[pomeroo]

The premise of this thread is that rationalists who rely on reason and real evidence are "taking hits" from faith-based ignoramuses who make up lots of silly crap.

With apologies to Samuel Goldwyn, "Two words: im-possible!"

[WildCat]

I know of these people as we are Dachshund fanciers...
Just so long as you keep them away from babies (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-dog_bite_bothnov06,1,6872373.story)... :(

[BenBurch]

Just so long as you keep them away from babies (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-dog_bite_bothnov06,1,6872373.story)... :(

I read that last night and became physically ill.

How bad did that baby's diaper have to be before the dog tried to eat it? And where were the parent and his GF (who was not the mother)? I must be a bad person, because all I can imagine is that they were drugged or drunk out of their minds. I mean, how else is a infant on the couch at that hour of the morning?

[WildCat]

I read that last night and became physically ill.

How bad did that baby's diaper have to be before the dog tried to eat it? And where were the parent and his GF (who was not the mother)? I must be a bad person, because all I can imagine is that they were drugged or drunk out of their minds. I mean, how else is a infant on the couch at that hour of the morning?
It's Waukegan.

All you need to know...

[The Silver Shadow]

Seriously Astute, the group you claim to not be from is dying. I left that side during the time when the 84% myth was prominent. I left because all they were doing was in-fighting, not going to authorities, just keeping it online. If it is such a big deal, then show the MSM, don't just sit around like armchair anthropologists of the early 20th century...

[Drudgewire]

Yes, fainting goats are real. Too bad no one who approved the psy-op program seemed to know that in advance.

http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=2-9780743270601-5

[MothraAttack]

For all those unfamiliar with Baer and the OP's claims, here's how it goes:

Robert Baer spent 21 years in the CIA, primarily monitoring Iranian affairs in the Mideast. He has published three books -- including a novel about 9/11, implicating the Iranians -- and a bestseller on intelligence gathering. He currently serves as an intelligence correspondent for Time magazine.

In June 2006 he said on a radio interview with Thom Hartmann that, "There is that possibility (of an inside job), the evidence points at it." No further elaboration was given that I'm aware of. The truthers, evidently, caught onto this quote a few days ago.

What they neglect to mention is that Baer has since published an article (Oct. 2007) in Time about 9/11. Here's a choice quote:

"None of the objectives, of course, were met. But for the attackers, the battle lines were clear, at least until 9/11. That's when that kind of clarity evaporated, as al-Qaeda decided, dropping any pretense of a conventional war, to slaughter civilians. ... Still, as we reassess the war on terrorism, as we should, let's never lose sight of the fact that it was al-Qaeda that started it all by switching course and deciding to slaughter civilians in Manhattan and Bali."

Baer has publicly cast doubt over al-Qaida's ability to singlehandedly pull of 9/11, but beyond Hartmann's show has never hinted at U.S. complicity. Mainly he alleges that Saudi or Qatari royalty might have provided assistance, and he has hinted at possible involvement within elements of Pakistan's ISI. He has not provided direct evidence for these claims, and admits for the most part that they're by and large speculation.

How much you want to bet you'll never see the "Let's never lose sight" quote on a truther blog?

[BenBurch]

It's Waukegan.

All you need to know...

Sadly. The only place I've been to that looks more like a war just happened was Flint, MI.

[BenBurch]

Yes, fainting goats are real. Too bad no one who approved the psy-op program seemed to know that in advance.

http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=2-9780743270601-5

Whoa. I need to read that.

Edit: The library here has it. I'll get it tomorrow.

[Drudgewire]

Whoa. I need to read that.
Yeah I just snagged it off Amazon. $4.99 and free shipping with Prime will make an excellent airplane book when we go to Barcelona Friday. :)

[CurtC]

Yes, fainting goats are real. Too bad no one who approved the psy-op program seemed to know that in advance.

http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=2-9780743270601-5

Ahh, thanks for the link - I knew it had something to do with goats! Now I notice that the book is by Jon Ronson, a member of this forum, and the guy who did a segment recently on This American Life, which I downloaded a month or two ago, but just listened to it last week. The episode is here:

http://thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1201

[leftysergeant]

I recall something about that. What was it? Something about goats?

This, of course, is a referrence to Major General Albert Stubblebine, a real whackadoo, probably now well into his dottage.

Not very ethical, either, to judge from some of his divorce documents.

Yeah, I feel perfectly free to diss him. He isn't much of a researcher or a hero, and he is getting worse with age.

Everything he attempted to prove turned out to be wrong.

Last I heard, he and his second wife are heavily into nutritional woo-woo.

[Drudgewire]

This, of course, is a referrence to Major General Albert Stubblebine, a real whackadoo, probably now well into his dottage.
Hehe, from the review:

Some of the characters involved seem well-meaning enough, such as the hapless General Stubblebine, who is 'confounded by his continual failure to walk through his wall.'

:dl:

[dudalb]

Sadly. The only place I've been to that looks more like a war just happened was Flint, MI.

Never been to Bakersfield,CA have you?
As someone said,the nice thing about that place is if terrorists detonated a nuclear bomb there,it would look only slighly different after.

[bynmdsue]

Welcome MothraAttack and Thanks for the info.Hopefully Astute makes it back to read it(and then probably ignore it)

[SDC]

Never been to Bakersfield,CA have you?
As someone said,the nice thing about that place is if terrorists detonated a nuclear bomb there,it would look only slighly different after.

On 9/11, I was halfway through a 5 year professional exile in Detroit. As the day wore on, a bunch of people were watching the events on a TV in the staff room. A rumor started that sites in Detroit had also been bombed (it has a large Arab population, which came under general suspicion after the events of the day).

I failed to endear myself to my colleagues by replying, "How could they tell?"

[hellaeon]

Intersting irony at play here. The thread is about how 'debunkers' are loosing a 'battle' or something and in the same thread a few new posters chimed in on the side of reality.

[Stuey voice]

haaa haaa haaa

[/Stuey voice]

[jhunter1163]

I read the thread title as "Debunkers Taking Huge (Rule10)s But Persist". Might be time for a new pair of glasses.

[BenBurch]

I read the thread title as "Debunkers Taking Huge (Rule10)s But Persist". Might be time for a new pair of glasses.

"Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'!"

[T.A.M.]

Welcome to the forum MothraAttack and Aardvark.

TAM:)

[Bell]

Welcome to the forum MothraAttack and Aardvark.

TAM:)

I think you just now scared them off with your new avie. What's up with that? Please change it back (even though I have no idea what the heck that was supposed to mean) :)

[T.A.M.]

lol...It is a blend of The Guy Fawkes mask and Braveheart.

A guy is allowed to have a little fun is he not?

TAM:)

[Aardvark422]

Thanks for the welcome. I was thinking earlier today about this topic, and from a distance it would seem to the Truthers that they were gaining ground. From my own experience with my dad, he appears to be taking in more and more of his friends. He has two doctorate degrees (in public health) and when he regurgitates some of this stuff, people around him tend to believe him, as he is a knowledgeable and educated man. But when I think back over the years, there hasn't been an actual gain in the truther belief of his, since his friends tend to go along with him for awhile, then move on when his more outrageous theories are presented, and they discover for themselves what is the real truth to 9/11.

Also, can't buy donuts this month, my NWO account hasn't been established, and my truther bucks aren't good at DunkinDonuts.

Aardvark

[A W Smith]

I think you just now scared them off with your new avie. What's up with that? Please change it back (even though I have no idea what the heck that was supposed to mean) :)

Thats because its Vincent Price (http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us&q=Vincent+Price+&btnG=Search+Images).. I mean Guy Fawkes (http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us&q=Guy+Fawkes&btnG=Search+Images)day!

[T.A.M.]

I admire your courage Aardvark. Having to argue with your father on something so profoundly emotional, so dividing, takes a brave heart.

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

Thats because its Vincent Price (http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us&q=Vincent+Price+&btnG=Search+Images).. I mean Guy Fawkes (http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us&q=Guy+Fawkes&btnG=Search+Images)day!

November 5th was Guy Fawkes Night (or Bonfire Night as we call it here in the Maritimes).

TAM:)

[Bell]

lol...It is a blend of The Guy Fawkes mask and Braveheart.

A guy is allowed to have a little fun is he not?

TAM:)

Yes, I recognized that. But it's kind of scary since the troofers are so keen of using the Fawkes mask image ;)

[parky76]

Astute- if the "truthers" are kicking our asses, where is the new investigation? why do only 30 people show up to truther marches and protests? why did less then 30 people show up to Ground Zero on 9-11-07?

How exactly are they kicking our asses?

[BenBurch]

BTW, if you take a huge hit and persist, soon you will be much too stoned and the weed will be all gone.

[BillyRayValentine]

Are you going to get around to actually making a claim, Astute, or are you just going to "neener neener" like the rest of your Twoofer buddies?

Looks like it's another young'un, all fired up to take on the man. Remember that disturbed kid who was going to build a bomb shelter in mom's back yard? Reminds me of him.

[Wildy]

Just so long as you keep them away from babies (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-dog_bite_bothnov06,1,6872373.story)... :(

I feel sorry for that kid. Dakels are a good dog to have, but they have really powerful jaws. I should know, I still have the scars on my face...



On topic however, do you think that this guy will return to say anything?

[tsig]

Ah, the Cold War. Good times....

Yeah all we had to fear was nuclear annihilation.

[BenBurch]

Yeah all we had to fear was nuclear annihilation.

That was a serious FEAR for me growing up. I didn't help it when, in the sixth grade, I started subscribing to The Bulletin Of The Atomic Scientists...

[BillyRayValentine]

...On topic however, do you think that this guy will return to say anything?

There was no school today (election day), hence his flurry of activity.

Hopefuly he'll focus on his schoolwork again after the day off. That'd be best.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

What exactly is this notion of a "growing movement" based on?

Poll results? Nope.

Massive protests? Nope.

Web traffic? Nope.

An active imagination? Ding, ding ding!!! We have a winner!


They increase the counter every time a "big name" publicly expresses their doubt about the reality of 9/11, but they fail to decrease that count when numerous truthers quietly slink out of the room.

[16.5]

For all those unfamiliar with Baer and the OP's claims, here's how it goes:

Robert Baer spent 21 years in the CIA, primarily monitoring Iranian affairs in the Mideast. He has published three books -- including a novel about 9/11, implicating the Iranians -- and a bestseller on intelligence gathering. He currently serves as an intelligence correspondent for Time magazine.

In June 2006 he said on a radio interview with Thom Hartmann that, "There is that possibility (of an inside job), the evidence points at it." No further elaboration was given that I'm aware of. The truthers, evidently, caught onto this quote a few days ago.

What they neglect to mention is that Baer has since published an article (Oct. 2007) in Time about 9/11. Here's a choice quote:

"None of the objectives, of course, were met. But for the attackers, the battle lines were clear, at least until 9/11. That's when that kind of clarity evaporated, as al-Qaeda decided, dropping any pretense of a conventional war, to slaughter civilians. ... Still, as we reassess the war on terrorism, as we should, let's never lose sight of the fact that it was al-Qaeda that started it all by switching course and deciding to slaughter civilians in Manhattan and Bali."

Baer has publicly cast doubt over al-Qaida's ability to singlehandedly pull of 9/11, but beyond Hartmann's show has never hinted at U.S. complicity. Mainly he alleges that Saudi or Qatari royalty might have provided assistance, and he has hinted at possible involvement within elements of Pakistan's ISI. He has not provided direct evidence for these claims, and admits for the most part that they're by and large speculation.

How much you want to bet you'll never see the "Let's never lose sight" quote on a truther blog?


Thanks Mothra. As usual, a well sourced and devastating rebuttal to a hit and run Twoofer on Jref. That the Twoof is desperate, one need look no further than this thread. The Twoof quote mines an out of context comment, only to find out that the person they are quoting completely rejects the Twoof nonsense. Thanks for drawing this to our attention, Astute!

[BenBurch]

They increase the counter every time a "big name" publicly expresses their doubt about the reality of 9/11, but they fail to decrease that count when numerous truthers quietly slink out of the room.

That's a common failing... One site that wants to think of itself as a Big Wheel in Democratic Politics claims over 100,000 members! But they fail to mention that the majority of those are trolls and sock puppet accounts that have been banned and people who never post there any more. The punch line is that only about 5000 souls actually inhabit the place according to software which examines every posting and counts unique usernames. But when they approach a Democratic candidate trying to get him to buy ads, I'm betting they use that 100,000+ number!

[Mobyseven]

The silence is deafening...

[orphia nay]

The percentage of "official" people in the twoof movement is comparable to the percentage of officials with psychoses in general society. I would like to be able to use this info. Is there a source for this?

I've started a new thread in reply.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=98118

[negativ]

Also, can't buy donuts this month, my NWO account hasn't been established, and my truther bucks aren't good at DunkinDonuts.

You can get 'em on credit at any DebunkinDonuts franchise, usually located within easy walking distance of your nearest Masonic temple.

[Belz...]

Esentially it means you lose by attrition. Eventually there will none of you left!

Actually, we have a number of ex-truthers, here. I know a couple, myself, and yours is a minority opinion.

You were destined to fail from the start. Not your fault that you blindly let fear and nationalism and patriotism guide you like Australian Sheep Hound does his flock. You were tricked.

Who's patriotic ? I'm Canadian.

[Belz...]

So you really think it was just a big coincidence that Rumsfeld goes before Congress and admits 2.3 trillion missing the day before 911?

So you're "not a truther", right ?

Well, aren't you the big fat liar, today ?

[beachnut]

Actually, we have a number of ex-truthers, here. I know a couple, myself, and yours is a minority opinion.

Who's patriotic ? I'm Canadian.
The truther is not using rational thought. very close to spewing coca-cola on the monitor

[chipmunk stew]

...DebunkinDonuts...
:dl:

[Mobyseven]

Hello? Astute? Found any debunkers turned truthers yet?

[Arus808]

well..i dont think he'll find any...too many truthers turning debunkers* to worry about
*namely me and a few others here

[Elizabeth I]

As for Stepnoski, just another reason to hate the Dallas Cowboys.

Hey, hey, hey...a little respect there! Hate Jerry Jones by all means, but hands off the Cowboys.

[ktesibios]

The truther is not using rational thought. very close to spewing coca-cola on the monitor

Careful, Beachnut. Coca-Cola is the second most corrosive liquid I've ever seen spilled into a piece of electronic equipment.

[qarnos]

Happy Birthday, Arus!

[PhantomWolf]

So was there anything of interest in this thread other than the usual truther arrives, makes big claims, gets pulmelled into ground with facts and leaves in a huff?

BTW: Happy birthday Arus!

[Hokulele]

Stupid date line. Happy birthday (tomorrow) Arus808 and AlooooooooHA!

[Arus808]

muchos mahalos

[quixotecoyote]

I get that if an evil truther turns debunker they can control them, but if it's a good truther, are we destroyed or just stunned?

[Mobyseven]

Birthday Arus Happy.

Wait a mo'...

[jhunter1163]

Happy birthday Arus!

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Happy Arus Day Birthday!

[westprog]

What they neglect to mention is that Baer has since published an article (Oct. 2007) in Time about 9/11. Here's a choice quote:

let's never lose sight of the fact that it was al-Qaeda that started it all by switching course and deciding to slaughter civilians in Manhattan



I suppose he'll come back now and complain about the concentration on Baer and ignoring the NFL guy.

[Belz...]

well..i dont think he'll find any...too many truthers turning debunkers* to worry about
*namely me and a few others here

Happy B., Arus.

I'd buy you a new bike... but I'm a little short, right now.

[JimBenArm]

Happy B., Arus.

I'd buy you a new bike... but I'm a little short, right now.
Well, we'll put you on the rack and make you a bit taller, then!

[Sabrina]

Happy Birthday Arus!

[Belz...]

Well, we'll put you on the rack and make you a bit taller, then!

Somehow I expected someone to say something silly about that...

[JimBenArm]

Somehow I expected someone to say something silly about that...
...and somehow you knew it would be me!

[rwguinn]

Happy Birthday Arus!
IS that the best you can do, Sabrina?

I'm disappointed.I was Looking for something wittier, somehow...

[Unsecured Coins]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/powers05/xml-birthday-cake-large.jpg

[LashL]

Happy Birthday, Arus!

:bcake::hbd::wave1:hbd::bcake:

[Unsecured Coins]

i hate it when you one-up me, Lash...

[TShaitanaku]

That's a common failing... One site that wants to think of itself as a Big Wheel in Democratic Politics claims over 100,000 members! But they fail to mention that the majority of those are trolls and sock puppet accounts that have been banned and people who never post there any more. The punch line is that only about 5000 souls actually inhabit the place according to software which examines every posting and counts unique usernames. But when they approach a Democratic candidate trying to get him to buy ads, I'm betting they use that 100,000+ number!

Even more amazing, though equally OT, is that you would portray this virtually universal forum site feature/aspect in a partisan manner to make it seem like it is only happening on one particular "despised other" site. Sad.

[Dave Rogers]

I was going to wish Arus a simple happy birthday, but now I'm just embarrased to...

Dave

PS. Happy birthday Arus.

[Sabrina]

IS that the best you can do, Sabrina?

I'm disappointed.I was Looking for something wittier, somehow...

If you're looking for wit, talk to Robin Williams; I'm just an intel grunt. :D

[Unsecured Coins]

You forgot...

nevermind

[JMarshall]

At first, I said to myself I wasn't going to waist my time or energy, replying to this statement... That is untill I read this one:

You were destined to fail from the start. Not your fault that you blindly let fear and nationalism and patriotism guide you like Australian Sheep Hound does his flock. You were tricked.

Nationalism, patriotism? Hmm, lets look at this callow and short sided insult, shall we?

What is nationalism? Nationalism is pride in ones country, although extreme nationalism can and most likely does "blind" people from the facts, having pride in ones country is far from blinding. I have been to many other counties, I have seen, many things, experienced other cultures, and in the end I would say unequivocally, yes I have nationalism!

What is patriotism? Once again patriotism is a pride one takes in their country, but can also have meanings of a set of morals one takes in reference to the country. Lets see, I spent six years of my life in the Army, as did every other generation of my extended family going back as far as the civil war; I have a United States Of America flag that I fly outside my house every day unless it is raining; I have realized the price of freedom is written in the blood and sweat of our fallen soldiers. Yes, yes, a thousand times yes, I am patriotic, I have pride.

In my opinion your jab, was at best insulting, and at worst laughable. Insults, like land mines, are used when someone is on the losing side, not the winning, when all other attempts to battle have been exhausted you still have the option to insult, thus giving yourself the warm fuzzy feeling of maintaining the battle, and not quiting.

[Belz...]

Let's be fair, Marshall... even if you're winning, you could still use land mines just for laughs...

[Sword_Of_Truth]

The door does not swing both ways. Very, very, and I mean very few people have become 911 truthers and gone back to being a none believer.

Yo, another ex-conspiraquack here.

[Arus808]

believed 911 was an inside job for all of a day (maybe shorter)...so i tasted the kool-aid and quickly had a heaping glass of water.

[NutCracker]

Because people agree you, you are right? Logical fallacy: Argumentum Ad Populum

Because you and the people have no evidence, and are only capable of bringing flawed papers, falsehoods and logical fallacies like the above to the table to build their case, it must be concluded that you and the people that agree with you are wrong.

[dafydd]

Conspiracy Theorists don't have experts, they have ex-sports.

-Gumboot

And they don't have girlfriends.

[Sabrina]

Holy thread necromancy, Batman!

[twinstead]

Well, we're taking huge hits but still persist...2 years later.

[Captain.Sassy]

Debunking 9-11 conspiracy theories has become a major industry for underemployed academics and thinktanks.

Big-debunk will never allow the truth to surface. They have too much invested in the status quo.

[Skeptic]

I misread the title as "debunkers taking huge tits". Hey, I would persist in that case, too...

[Skeptic]

Debunking 9-11 conspiracy theories has become a major industry for underemployed academics and thinktanks.

Big-debunk will never allow the truth to surface. They have too much invested in the status quo.

Unemployed academics have a lot invested in the status quo? You're not making sense.

Also, please make up your mind: either the evil lies of the official 9/11 story are on the point of collapse due to the heroic efforts of the 9/11 truthers, or the evil coverup will "never allow the truth to surface". It can hardly be both.

Okay, okay, I know. I'm looking for consistency and common sense from a 9/11 "truther". Me bad.

[Captain.Sassy]

Dude, look at the facts.

95% of US academics don't believe 9-11 was a conspiracy.

The average US academic makes over 100,000$ per year.

There are 4,000,000 academics in the US.

All of this equals big money.

Then there's spillover effects, like conferences and internet forums for debunkers. These are also major industries. You think big-forum wants the truth to surface any more than big-debunk???
;)

[Justin39640]

Dude, look at the facts.

95% of US academics don't believe 9-11 was a conspiracy.

The average US academic makes over 100,000$ per year.

There are 4,000,000 academics in the US.

All of this equals big money.

Then there's spillover effects, like conferences and internet forums for debunkers. These are also major industries. You think big-forum wants the truth to surface any more than big-debunk???
;)

um
they make money cause theyre smart
99% of that 95% probably never debunked anything
they just do their jobs and live their lives
the last bunch of them dont make money from debunking (i would love to see the proof that they do)

the only group that actively tries to turn a profit from 9/11 is the truthers
http://www.ae911truth.org/donations/ (they used to have a $911 dollar option)
sick and disgusting

[Captain.Sassy]

Fact: DARPA invented the internet.

FACT: Many US academics use the internet.

You're telling me it would be impossible for US academics to communicate over the internet and coordinate their efforts?

This, my friend, was the origin of big-debunk and the debunkist lobby that has hijacked US foreign policy.

;);)

[Justin39640]

Fact: DARPA invented the internet.

FACT: Many US academics use the internet.



i get it
truther parody
lol