US troops slaughtering the police they just trained.

[Jon_in_london]

About 10 Iraqi security personnel have mistakenly been killed by US soldiers outside the town of Fallujah, west of Baghdad, according to Iraqi sources

and...

On Wednesday, US troops shot dead at least one Iraqi policeman and wounded another when their convoy was hit by a bomb.

Train 'em up an' shoot the critters! Perhaps the US army needs to update its 'if in doubt empty magazine' policy?

[Some Friggin Guy]

Not going to argue with you on this, but I would like a link to the full story.

[Jon_in_london]

oops

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3102920.stm

[Some Friggin Guy]

This begs a question: were the Iraqi police officers in an unmarked vehicle?

If they were, this doesn't excuse the act, but it might mitigate it somewhat.

If not, then I must shamefully admit that American troops have become trigger-happy.

[Jon_in_london]

This isnt the first time this has happened. I posted another thread a while back and the police were in an unmarked car- so why havent they been given proper cars yet? I dont think Its the fault of the troops who prolly just saw two car loads of armed rag-heads barrelling towards them and opened up.

Now; assuming that the car was unmarked: Given that the local authority was aware that this kind of thing could and would happen, why havent they been issued with properly marked police-cars?

[Some Friggin Guy]

Perhaps going along with your point, if the car was unmarked, and the police were aware this could be a problem, why didn't they stop and let the troops handle the situation when the first car barreled through the check point?

It is entirely possible they didn't have a marked car due to financial setbacks, which I can understand.

I am hesitant to place blame on any of the non-criminal parties involved without knowing the answer to the quetion of markings on the police vehicle.

[a_unique_person]

There was a similar incidet just a month ago in Bagdad. The Iraqi policman was shot while waving his identity tag.

The US troops have been trained for front-line lightning wars of massive firepower. When it comes to policing civilians in politically and culturally sensitve situations like this, it appears they don't have a clue. They don't appear to want to be there, the Iraqis don't seem to want them there. They didn't like Saddam either, but the only way for the US is to just pack up and leave, or provide a peace keeping force that actually knows it's business.

[Malachi151]

I think that this is all a normal part of these types of activities, the sad part is people waking up to reality. This is the real world, bad s**t happens. That is certianly not an excuse but I wish that all damned Jesus freaks and gung ho supporters would realize that their ideologies have consequences.

This si why I opposed this kind of stuff from the beginning becuase these results are inevitable. I don't think that US is approaching that particualr situation wrong I think its just inevitable that this will happen, which is why we shouldn't have gone in gung ho and guns blazing in the first place.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
The US troops have been trained for front-line lightning wars of massive firepower. When it comes to policing civilians in politically and culturally sensitve situations like this, it appears they don't have a clue.

AUP, I think its a mixture of things here. Poorly trained police, jittery troops, unmarked cars (?).

I do think its true though that the US troops simply are trained for this type of thing. Its somwhat ironic that at the frontline of the 'war against terror' the US is finding itself ill prepared for counter-terrorism.

[Jon_in_london]

Well, DrChinese's thread puts a different light on it.




From MSNBC

"U.S. soldiers mistakenly opened fire on Iraqi police chasing bandits Friday, killing eight Iraqis and a Jordanian security guard and wounding nine other people in the deadliest friendly fire incident since the end of major fighting, witnesses said.

"The police came under fire about 1:30 a.m. (5:30 p.m. Thursday ET) as about 25 uniformed officers in two pickup trucks and a sedan were chasing a white BMW known to have been used by highway bandits, said Sgt. Asem Mohammed, 23, who was among the injured.

"Two of the vehicles pursuing the bandits in the darkness were painted in the blue and white colors of the Iraqi police, while a pickup truck with a gun mounted on it was white. An Associated Press reporter who saw some of the dead Iraqis said they were in uniform, which includes a blue shirt with insignia.

"As the chase neared a checkpoint near the Jordanian hospital on the west side of Fallujah, the police turned around after losing sight of their quarry and a U.S. patrol at the location opened fire, Mohammed said.

"'We were chasing a white BMW with bandits,' Mohammed said from his hospital bed. 'We turned around in front of Jordanian Hospital and some American forces started shooting at us. They continued firing for about an hour despite our pleas for them to stop and to tell them we are police and security.'

"Members of the Jordanian armed forces guarding the hospital apparently also opened fire when the Americans began shooting, catching the Iraqi police in a crossfire. One of the guards was killed.



So it was actually a case of "if in doubt empty magazine in genral direction of anything that moves"

[DrChinese]

Jon,

Sorry to replicate your thread, don't know how I missed yours...

Anyway, there was no evidence that the US troops were fired upon, at least initially. The police vehicles were marked and the pokice were in uniform, however it was the middle of the night and there had been some "activity" in the area earlier that day.

The US troops were guarding a small hospital (100 beds). I am not sure exactly why a hospital needed 2 groups of armed guards in front (US and Jordanian) in the first place. How can there possibly be enough troops to provide security in Iraq if even a hospital needs to be guarded 24 hours a day with machine guns?

So trigger-happy or not, it is pretty obvious that this is not the type of detail our military needs to be pulling. We should pull out now.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by DrChinese
So trigger-happy or not, it is pretty obvious that this is not the type of detail our military needs to be pulling. We should pull out now.

No. Nobdy can pull out now, the effects would be disasterous.

The US military needs serious re-training in the counter-terrorism role. The US has never had to deal with a serious long-term counter-terrorism op. Im sure British and Isreali armed forces would be happy to oblige. It just needs the swallowing of a little bit of pride to admit that maybe "we arent the best for this job".

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london

Im sure British and Isreali armed forces would be happy to oblige.

Oh sure, lets get Israel involved. Like THAT won't cause all sorts of fun in the region.

Of course, if they did, they could change the Iraqi flag...

[Garrette]

Hospitals need guards because they get looted when they are restocked. Their generators get stolen; the drugs get taken; propane is carted away.

The soldiers fired because all the vehicles drove fast and recklessly through a checkpoint--no stopping.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Garrette
Hospitals need guards because they get looted when they are restocked. Their generators get stolen; the drugs get taken; propane is carted away.

The soldiers fired because all the vehicles drove fast and recklessly through a checkpoint--no stopping.

I also have to wonder what blue and white looks like to night vision goggles. Maybe that wasn't the best color choice for the cars?

[crackmonkey]

Apparently the Jordanian troops were just as trigger-happy, as they shot up the police as well.
S**t happens.

[Mr Manifesto]

I wonder if it's true that US troops were killed (http://english.aljazeera.net/Articles/News/ArabWorld/Several+killed+in+Iraqi+resistance+attacks.htm) as well. Though, I can't see what the military would gain by hiding casualty figures.

Does anyone know what's to stop the military from lying about casualties? Are there any checks in place?

[nightwind]

Unfortunately, another incidence of "friendly fire".