A question for truthers: what exactly are you doing for the cause?

[CHF]

This question is for Swing, Max, Bofors, MM, whatever Pd sock puppet is currently here, and any other truthers reading this.

The goal of the TM, as I understand it, is to get a new investigation, which is supposed to expose the truth for all to see.

So what are you doing to bring this about?

I mean, yeah, you attempt to defend your position on internet forums, that much we know. But what else do you do?

Do you
- try to convert family and friends
- annoy people at work with TM spam
- hand out literature on the street
- attend public protests
- contact local media
- call local politicians to plead your case
- contact engineers and demolition pros to show them your proof
- submit your evidence for peer-review (no, not by your fellow truthers)
- offer your home as refuge for any terrified would-be-whistleblowers fearful of government assassination
- avoid flying
- join an armed militia to resist the coming fascist NWO takeover
- contact military personnel to warn them about how they are being groomed to be the new SS
- plan on fleeing the country in terror

I gotta tell ya, if I honestly thought 9/11 was carried out by my own government as justification to enslave the planet, I'd probably be doing all of the above. Every single day.

So just what are YOU doing, truthers?

[Max Photon]

This question is for Swing, Max, Bofors, MM, whatever Pd sock puppet is currently here, and any other truthers reading this.

The goal of the TM, as I understand it, is to get a new investigation, which is supposed to expose the truth for all to see.

So what are you doing to bring this about?

I mean, yeah, you attempt to defend your position on internet forums, that much we know. But what else do you do?

Do you
- try to convert family and friends
- annoy people at work with TM spam
- hand out literature on the street
- attend public protests
- contact local media
- call local politicians to plead your case
- contact engineers and demolition pros to show them your proof
- submit your evidence for peer-review (no, not by your fellow truthers)
- offer your home as refuge for any terrified would-be-whistleblowers fearful of government assassination
- avoid flying
- join an armed militia to resist the coming fascist NWO takeover
- contact military personnel to warn them about how they are being groomed to be the new SS
- plan on fleeing the country in terror

I gotta tell ya, if I honestly thought 9/11 was carried out by my own government as justification to enslave the planet, I'd probably be doing all of the above. Every single day.

So just what are YOU doing, truthers?


I can only speak for myself.

I try to put forth and refine a model - (MAX-MIHOP = thermite was used to heat-weaken WTC steel to initiate collapse) - in the presence of skeptics.

(I hope everyone is clear that I am completely open to publicly admitting I am wrong when I believe I am wrong.)

I try to infuse a little humor, because life is indeed short.

I am trying to stand up for the US and the Constitution, as I swore to do when I became a citizen. (I'm originally from Scotland.)

I try to emphasis that it is not the US government, but a criminal element within the government, that perpetrated 911.

I try to show the link between synthetic currency (which is unconstitutional, and a true moral abomination) and 911.

I try to show the link between pathological marketing (MILDEC against the citizenry) and 911. (Remember, salesmanship is the difference between rape and rapture.)

I try to produce output in a usable form that might help other researchers.

I try to do all of this with my very humble skillset, as best I can, while having to meet other obligations.

I believe I am putting myself at risk trying to defend my country, and to stand up for people across the globe, for everyone is impacted by 911 and its aftermath.

It may not be much, but it is my best effort.

Max

* * *

[Disbelief]

Max, while you may be a bit off-the-wall, I do have to commend you for at least attempting to answer the question that other truthers avoid like the plague - how was it done? While I do not think your narrative stands up to scrutiny, you have done something others refuse to do.

Plus. when you are not too full of yourself, you can be humorous.

[CHF]

Max,

All this research you've done...who have you presented it to other than people on internet message boards?

[JMarshall]

Not to interject, but I've got a couple of things to ask...

Q1: How does thinking up a conspiracy theory (Whether feasible or not) constitute bringing the truth to the people?

Q2: If the movement on the whole was actually finding the truth wouldn't it be in agreement on one theory?

Those are pretty simple questions, or at least they are to me, and as such I think every TMer should ask themselves these in order to actually see what their actual motivation is.

[anticonspiracy911]

They won't do anything because it's a passive-aggressive movement.

[Max Photon]

Max,

All this research you've done...who have you presented it to other than people on internet message boards?


I've written to NIST, Fire Engineering, ASCE, Northwestern University, Dr. Paul Worsey (explosives expert), and a few others.

I've never expected anything from these contacts other than to seed the idea in peoples' minds, to put NIST on notice, and to see what it shakes out that might be useful (if only to kill the model).

As far as submitting to major establishment journals:

My ideas are not sufficiently developed, which is why I believe the forum is a more appropriate venue at this time;
I hope you guys can be honest with yourselves in admitting that there is not a snowball's chance in hell the majors will touch something like MAX-MIHOP.

Another point that I think is very important to recognize is that idea development can be extremely nonlinear. It matters not whether I am correct. Even incorrect ideas can trigger correct ideas in others. Think (middle) fingers of instability. :)

At a minimum, I hope that my input - even if completely wrong - helps you see where you are correct and incorrect.

That is why I am a bit surprised by the hostility of some. If your 19-Hijacker Conspiracy Hypothesis is indeed correct, then my ideas should invoke little threat or anger, but rather should help fortify your position.


All that said, allow me to ask all of you a direct question:

Aside from Apollo20's AP model, is not MAX-MIHOP the most complete and coherent attempt at a controlled-demolition model that currently exists (even if you do not agree there was controlled-demolition)?


Your buddy Max

* * *

[CHF]

Aside from Apollo20's AP model, is not MAX-MIHOP the most complete and coherent attempt at a controlled-demolition model that currently exists (even if you do not agree there was controlled-demolition)?

Yeah, I suppose so.

But trust me, Max - that's not saying much.

[Myriad]

All that said, allow me to ask all of you a direct question:

Aside from Apollo20's AP model, is not MAX-MIHOP the most complete and coherent attempt at a controlled-demolition model that currently exists (even if you do not agree there was controlled-demolition)?


Yes. But only because I haven't had the time to refine my stealth-dirigible-delivered nonexplosive freefall deadweight thermite-cored collapse bomb theory. When I do, you'll drop to third place.

Respectfully,
Myriad

[Max Photon]

* * *

Originally Posted by Max Photon:

Aside from Apollo20's AP model, is not MAX-MIHOP the most complete and coherent attempt at a controlled-demolition model that currently exists (even if you do not agree there was controlled-demolition)?


Yeah, I suppose so.

But trust me, Max - that's not saying much.


One small step for man.

One giant step for JREF.


Thanks CHF! You have gone where no JREFer has gone before.

That takes courage.


Max

* * *

[Max Photon]

Yes. But only because I haven't had the time to refine my stealth-dirigible-delivered nonexplosive freefall deadweight thermite-cored collapse bomb theory. When I do, you'll drop to third place.

Respectfully,
Myriad


:)


* * *

[Calcas]

I'll give you a point for honesty as well, Max.

And maybe even another for becoming a citizen.

But you're still full of it ;)

[RedIbis]

That is why I am a bit surprised by the hostility of some. If your 19-Hijacker Conspiracy Hypothesis is indeed correct, then my ideas should invoke little threat or anger, but rather should help fortify your position.


* * *

Of all the many excellent and sincere things you've said in this thread, I wanted to bring especial attention to this oft overlooked reality.

[Liszt]

Max, you have a pretty cool website (quite witty, too)

[Alferd_Packer]

Red, would you care to address the question in the OP?

[Undesired Walrus]

Max, why are you not camping out infront of the white house, or trying to organise massive rallies every day until the government answers these questions?

Ykno, like the civil rights movement and the burmese people did.

[Swing Dangler]

This question is for Swing, Max, Bofors, MM, whatever Pd sock puppet is currently here, and any other truthers reading this.

The goal of the TM, as I understand it, is to get a new investigation, which is supposed to expose the truth for all to see.

So what are you doing to bring this about?

I mean, yeah, you attempt to defend your position on internet forums, that much we know. But what else do you do?

Do you
- try to convert family and friends
It is not a religion, so there is no conversion. You accept as fact the official conspiracy theory or you do not. I've presented them with some of the major discrepancies in the official story and they do not accept that as factual.

- annoy people at work with TM spam
I would state annoy. The constructional engineer I emailed did find the collapse of WTC 7 rather curious.

- hand out literature on the street
Nope.I do have a family and a successful career.
- attend public protests
Nope. None around here to attend.
- contact local media
Yep.
- call local politicians to plead your case
Write, yes, call no.
- contact engineers and demolition pros to show them your proof
I've contacted numerous engineering firms. I can't find any that have actually read NIST's report.

- submit your evidence for peer-review (no, not by your fellow truthers)
No. I'm not trying to get published. Besides, isn't that what you guys are for?
- offer your home as refuge for any terrified would-be-whistleblowers fearful of government assassination
I do not personally know any WBs. But if I did, I would have to check with my wife. I suppose if they agreed to help with the chores they could stay for a few days.
- avoid flying
When you arrive at the conclusion that the official conspiracy theory is not official truth, then there is no need to fear flying.
- join an armed militia to resist the coming fascist NWO takeover
I don't see the need to do that. The NWO take over won't be violent, it will be economic. When the citizenry care more about everything but their country and constitution, there is no need for the NWO to use violence. I would argue that we are already in the NWO as pappy Bush discussed in his term as resident.

- contact military personnel to warn them about how they are being groomed to be the new SS
While examining pictures of the Pentagon, my close friend in the military walked up to checkout what I was doing, he looked me in the eye and said, "There was no 757 that hit the Pentagon. Look at the hole? Where are the debris and wings?"
"The guys in my unit think it was an A to G missile or a small jet." I had not mentioned a single word about a conspiracy. He was already aware of the offices that were struck etc. Needless to say I was flabbergasted that this specialist in blast ordinance who was training in the disarming of nukes at the time said this to me. He also mentioned a classified report he read about a plane knocking off the antennae of the hotel. It was vague at the time and I didn't expand on that part of the discussion. I guess I was in shock about his beliefs.

- plan on fleeing the country in terror[/QUOTE
If I did that, the terrorists would win! Justice would serve to eliminate this issue of course.

[QUOTE]I gotta tell ya, if I honestly thought 9/11 was carried out by my own government as justification to enslave the planet, I'd probably be doing all of the above. Every single day.
I'm not sure about this whole enslavement of the planet goal you mention. My wife does a fine job of enslaving me...she is the Lord of the Ring so to speak.
As far as my local post office participating in a conspiracy, well that is just nuts. Again, I think the vast majority of truthers believe that a small cabal in the government was behind the covert yet overt operation.


As a citizen in a supposedly democratic republic ,CHF, when you suspect the government of wrong doing on any particular issue, what are you doing about it?

[Undesired Walrus]

Swing Dangler, why are you not camping out infront of the white house, or trying to organise massive rallies every day until the government answers these questions?

Ykno, like the civil rights movement and the burmese people did.

[Mr. Skinny]

Aside from Apollo20's AP model, is not MAX-MIHOP the most complete and coherent attempt at a controlled-demolition model that currently exists (even if you do not agree there was controlled-demolition)?

I'll agree that when you first presented your "laser ignited thermite dusted shock tube" theory, I found it novel enough that I'd follow along for a while and ask questions.

Unfortunately, your theory collapses under close scrutiny. For example, you can't provide specs on your theoretical laser, so I more or less, quite considering the theory.

It's details Max, and you can't provide them.

Sorry, but your theory goes on the trash pile without facts. (am I channeling Beachnut now?)

[JAStewart]

What Mr Skinny says is true Max. You may be a 'good' truther (IE friendly, not abusing and willing to debate) but as he says you can't provide the details.

[funk de fino]

While examining pictures of the Pentagon, my close friend in the military walked up to checkout what I was doing, he looked me in the eye and said, "There was no 757 that hit the Pentagon. Look at the hole? Where are the debris and wings?"
"The guys in my unit think it was an A to G missile or a small jet." I had not mentioned a single word about a conspiracy. He was already aware of the offices that were struck etc. Needless to say I was flabbergasted that this specialist in blast ordinance who was training in the disarming of nukes at the time said this to me. He also mentioned a classified report he read about a plane knocking off the antennae of the hotel. It was vague at the time and I didn't expand on that part of the discussion. I guess I was in shock about his beliefs.

At least we have learned something, your friend is an idiot

How do air to ground missiles reach the target Swing? What is the trajectory? Do they look like the aircraft all those witness seen?

I hope this is not your position also?

[CHF]

I've contacted numerous engineering firms. I can't find any that have actually read NIST's report.

That wasn't my question, Swing. I asked if you've shown your evidence to any engineers, not whether you've found any who have read the whole NIST report.

I recall that you originally set out to contact engineering firms and show them your basement bomb theory but all of a sudden you seemingly gave up on that. How come?

No. I'm not trying to get published. Besides, isn't that what you guys are for?

Indeed, our side does seek peer-review and publication (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=98405). That's what real truth seekers do. How come you guys aren't interested in that?

While examining pictures of the Pentagon, my close friend in the military walked up to checkout what I was doing, he looked me in the eye and said, "There was no 757 that hit the Pentagon. Look at the hole? Where are the debris and wings?"
"The guys in my unit think it was an A to G missile or a small jet." I had not mentioned a single word about a conspiracy. He was already aware of the offices that were struck etc. Needless to say I was flabbergasted that this specialist in blast ordinance who was training in the disarming of nukes at the time said this to me. He also mentioned a classified report he read about a plane knocking off the antennae of the hotel. It was vague at the time and I didn't expand on that part of the discussion. I guess I was in shock about his beliefs.

An A to G missile or a small jet? That's a pretty dumb friend you have.

As a citizen in a supposedly democratic republic ,CHF, when you suspect the government of wrong doing on any particular issue, what are you doing about it?

When I think they've done wrong I vote against them. If I thought they had pulled off a massive slaughter of my fellow citizens I'd be doing exactly what I outlined in the OP.

[Max Photon]

I'll agree that when you first presented your "laser ignited thermite dusted shock tube" theory, I found it novel enough that I'd follow along for a while and ask questions.

Unfortunately, your theory collapses under close scrutiny. For example, you can't provide specs on your theoretical laser, so I more or less, quite considering the theory.

It's details Max, and you can't provide them.

Sorry, but your theory goes on the trash pile without facts. (am I channeling Beachnut now?)



Sir Ringe,

I don't understand your logic.

MAX-MIHOP says that thermite was used to heat-weaken WTC steel, and that it was linked and ignited by thermite-dusted shock-tube.

Laser ignition of the shock-tube is just one dimension. Bear in mind that there could be other ignition mechanisms for the shock-tube.

Do I understand that you dismiss every aspect of MAX-MIHOP just because I can't provide laser specs?

Max

* * *

[Swing Dangler]

Max, why are you not camping out infront of the white house, or trying to organise massive rallies every day until the government answers these questions?

Ykno, like the civil rights movement and the burmese people did.

I recall the tax movement doing that with the IRS. You saw what response that got. So much for that petition the government for redress amendment.

[JMarshall]

"The guys in my unit think it was an A to G missile or a small jet." I had not mentioned a single word about a conspiracy. He was already aware of the offices that were struck etc. Needless to say I was flabbergasted that this specialist in blast ordinance who was training in the disarming of nukes at the time said this to me.

So he has no flight training? Has not been trained to investigate crash sites, or even a military intelligence? Most times blast ordinance don't see the aftermath, other than training... I don't doubt it LOOKED like this or that, but looks can be deceiving... Especially to someone as untrained...


Do I understand that you dismiss every aspect of MAX-MIHOP just because I can't provide laser specs?


I won't say I dismiss your whole theory, personally, but I will say I dismiss most of it, but not because of the laser thing... Your use of thermite is extremely flawed...

[Jonnyclueless]

Sir Ringe,

I don't understand your logic.

MAX-MIHOP says that thermite was used to heat-weaken WTC steel, and that it was linked and ignited by thermite-dusted shock-tube.

Laser ignition of the shock-tube is just one dimension. Bear in mind that there could be other ignition mechanisms for the shock-tube.

Do I understand that you dismiss every aspect of MAX-MIHOP just because I can't provide laser specs?

Max

* * *

And what separates this from being 100% pure conjecture?

[Mr. Skinny]

Sir Ringe,

I don't understand your logic.

MAX-MIHOP says that thermite was used to heat-weaken WTC steel, and that it was linked and ignited by thermite-dusted shock-tube.

Laser ignition of the shock-tube is just one dimension. Bear in mind that there could be other ignition mechanisms for the shock-tube.

Do I understand that you dismiss every aspect of MAX-MIHOP just because I can't provide laser specs?

Max
Max,

Actually, yes I do. For your theory to be plausible several distinct individual theories must be verified. Links in a chain so to speak.

Since I happen to understand lasers far better than thermite, I chose to attack the laser "link" in your theory.

You cannot provide sufficient details to keep that link from failing, so the entire theory fails, IMHO.

You need to do better research, Max.

[LastChild]

Asking questions and not accepting half-truth versions of events as gospel.

[T.A.M.]

Asking questions and not accepting half-truth versions of events as gospel.

That is a good policy to live by. Knowing you must be true to this, i can speculate with relative certainty that you must find 95% of the truth movements theories and so called evidence to be UNACCEPTABLE.

TAM:)

[twinstead]

The sad truth is that no matter what these ideologues and self-proclaimed 'seekers of truth' claim, the official story, while not perfect, is the best explanation of the events of that day when every single bit of evidence is taken as a whole.

They must know this deep down, because if I were to think my government was complicit in the mass murder of 3000 of its own citizens with this mother of all hoaxes I'd be out on the streets getting all Burma on them as we speak.

[T.A.M.]

it is amazing what it takes to knock the apathy out of some people...lol

TAM:)

[Miragememories]

This question is for MM.

The goal of the TM, as I understand it, is to get a new investigation, which is supposed to expose the truth for all to see.

So what are you doing to bring this about?

I mean, yeah, you attempt to defend your position on internet forums, that much we know. But what else do you do?

Do you
- try to convert family and friends
- annoy people at work with TM spam
- hand out literature on the street
- attend public protests
- contact local media
- call local politicians to plead your case
- contact engineers and demolition pros to show them your proof
- submit your evidence for peer-review (no, not by your fellow truthers)
- offer your home as refuge for any terrified would-be-whistleblowers fearful of government assassination
- avoid flying
- join an armed militia to resist the coming fascist NWO takeover
- contact military personnel to warn them about how they are being groomed to be the new SS
- plan on fleeing the country in terror

I gotta tell ya, if I honestly thought 9/11 was carried out by my own government as justification to enslave the planet, I'd probably be doing all of the above. Every single day.

So just what are YOU doing, truthers?

Hmm.

First off I'm honored to be one of the chosen.

What do I do?

Besides making fools of JREFers who don't realize bigotry is poison to their hope of convincing 'fencesitters' to join their cause?

Look at the world situation right now.

Look at the U.S. dollar situation.

Look at the Iraq.

Look at the price of oil.

What makes you think the average American won't start looking for a new explanation for why their country is going down the toilet?

Just go ahead and smoke more of what e^n says he heavily smokes.

It's all good.

The troofers are in their place.

Ya right..ha ha.

MM

[Elizabeth I]

...So just what are YOU doing, truthers?

Hmm.

...What do I do?

Look at the world situation right now.

Look at the U.S. dollar situation.

Look at the Iraq.

Look at the price of oil.

MM

:eek: YOU did all that? Wow...what a screw-up.

[pomeroo]

At least we have learned something, your friend is an idiot

How do air to ground missiles reach the target Swing? What is the trajectory? Do they look like the aircraft all those witness seen?

I hope this is not your position also?


Everything we have learned about Swing Dangler suggests that this tale is another of his many falsehoods.

[pomeroo]

Sir Ringe,

I don't understand your logic.

MAX-MIHOP says that thermite was used to heat-weaken WTC steel, and that it was linked and ignited by thermite-dusted shock-tube.

Laser ignition of the shock-tube is just one dimension. Bear in mind that there could be other ignition mechanisms for the shock-tube.

Do I understand that you dismiss every aspect of MAX-MIHOP just because I can't provide laser specs?

Max
* * *



MAX-MIHOP says nothing because MAX-MIHOP isn't a person. MAX-MIHOP is pseudo-scientific windbaggery, devoid of substance and critical reasoning. The person who calls himself "Max Photon" pretends to be a scientist, but is obviously nothing of the sort. He continually invokes "thermite," a substance he knows nothing about, but fails to provide a shred of evidence showing that thermite was actually used at the WTC complex on the day of the jihadist attacks. He falsely claims to have read Apathoid's paper. If he really did read the paper, he would either renounce his untenable belief in remote-controlled Boeing 757s and 767s or demonstrate the errors the author makes.

[Coffee]

Hmm.

First off I'm honored to be one of the chosen.

What do I do?

Besides making fools of JREFers who don't realize bigotry is poison to their hope of convincing 'fencesitters' to join their cause?

Look at the world situation right now.

Look at the U.S. dollar situation.

Look at the Iraq.

Look at the price of oil.

What makes you think the average American won't start looking for a new explanation for why their country is going down the toilet?

Just go ahead and smoke more of what e^n says he heavily smokes.

It's all good.

The troofers are in their place.

Ya right..ha ha.

MM

You are right about troofers being in their place. Too bad their place is a land of lies, conjecture and speculation. Evidence and facts do not reside in "troofer land".

[Max Photon]

Max,

Actually, yes I do. For your theory to be plausible several distinct individual theories must be verified. Links in a chain so to speak.

Since I happen to understand lasers far better than thermite, I chose to attack the laser "link" in your theory.

You cannot provide sufficient details to keep that link from failing, so the entire theory fails, IMHO.

You need to do better research, Max.



Tell me, do you apply the same standard to the NIST reports?

Or are you person with double standards?


* * *

[Mr. Skinny]

Tell me, do you apply the same standard to the NIST reports?

Or are you person with double standards?


* * *
The NIST report relied on lasers as a possible cause?


I said that I examined most closely those things that I understand best. How am I applying a double standard? Can you point to a post I've made that even comments on the NIST report? Honestly I can't recall making one.

Please point out my "double standard", Max, and I'll comment.

[Max Photon]

The NIST report relied on lasers as a possible cause?

I said that I examined most closely those things that I understand best. How am I applying a double standard? Can you point to a post I've made that even comments on the NIST report? Honestly I can't recall making one.

Please point out my "double standard", Max, and I'll comment.



You're lost (again).


Let's apply to NIST's models the same standard (and language) you apply to mine.

For NIST's theory to be plausible several distinct individual theories must be verified. Links in a chain so to speak.

If one link in NIST's chain is broken, will you scrap the all the NCSTARs, and their conclusions?


Max

* * *

[pomeroo]

You're lost (again).


Let's apply to NIST's models the same standard (and language) you apply to mine.

For NIST's theory to be plausible several distinct individual theories must be verified. Links in a chain so to speak.

If one link in NIST's chain is broken, will you scrap the all the NCSTARs, and their conclusions?


Max

* * *



An important link in your bogus chain was broken when Apathoid demonstrated the implausibility of flying Boeing 767s and 757s by remote control. When will you acknowledge your error and abandon your untenable belief? Are you ever planning to read his paper?

[Mr. Skinny]

You're lost (again).


Let's apply to NIST's models the same standard (and language) you apply to mine.

For NIST's theory to be plausible several distinct individual theories must be verified. Links in a chain so to speak.

If one link in NIST's chain is broken, will you scrap the all the NCSTARs, and their conclusions?


Max
Max,

If you can point to a major, (repeat, major), defect in the chain of event in the NIST report that is similar to your failure to (specifiy a laser that can) make your theory work, I'm sure many here will be willing to debate you.

I have not read the NIST report, but many others here have, and I'm sure they would take up the debate.

I'm trying to limit my argument to the first link in your chain - that a laser ignited TDST's.

Can we stick to that issue please?

I'm simply saying that I can't consider your theory until and unless you can convince me that Link Numero Uno in your chain of events is possible.