How long before this becomes a bigfoot sighting?

[DrewD]

I feel like I have to add to the bigfoot storm that seems to be taking over the JREF.

I read this story and wanted to see how long before this became a "bigfoot is real and has been sighted" story.

Histo/CreekFreak/MOTS, any comments?


http://www.nbc10.com/news/14585860/detail.html

[kosai]

It's not just Bigfoot... there is monkey mayhem world wide..

I saw a mayor in India was killed by monkeys and some gang of 350 baboons terrorizing Africa.

[slingblade]

How long? It's in the very article:

There is kind of that 'I've seen a bigfoot' type of feel to it," said resident Eric Lawson. "They said it made a nest in that tree, so it's probably somewhere here in the area."

So...not long. :D

[DrewD]

How long? It's in the very article:



So...not long. :D

I took the words "type of feel to it" to mean not so much I have seen bigfoot but something that I can eventually say was a bigfoot sighting. But the bigfoot seeds have been laid so to speak.:rolleyes:

[slingblade]

OMG, they come from seeds?

:p

[Biscuit]

I want too commend their efforts in capturing the creature.

"He said he took a pack of jelly donuts and left it at the bottom of the tree, hoping to lure the creature to the ground. He said he hasn't heard anything since."

Way to go buddy. Keep up the good work. Was he expecting it to call him and thank him for the donuts?

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

I feel like I have to add to the bigfoot storm that seems to be taking over the JREF.

I read this story and wanted to see how long before this became a "bigfoot is real and has been sighted" story.

http://www.nbc10.com/news/14585860/detail.html

It became a "cryptid ape" (http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/glen-fl-ape) yesterday.

[Creekfreak]

Yes they have been seeing that thing down there for years there is even a picture of it some old lady took and gave to the cops .
At least they are not denying people are seeing something thats a start .
I dont think its a bigfoot myself from the picture Ive seen more like an orangatang .
A primate like this could live many years in the jungles of florida .
If he is nesting in trees near a populated area that just means he is not scared of humans but just likes to be in the wild not in a cage .
As long as he is not hurting anybody keep giveing him those jelly doughnuts and leave him alone .

[DrewD]

OMG, they come from seeds?

:p

I'm not sure. Maybe one of our resident bigfooters will clear this up.

Although I have heard a certain male body fluid referenced to as seed before.

[kosai]

Maybe they travel in pods?

Does anyone know what the correct term for a group of bigfoot(feet?) are?

troop, herd, mob, pack...?

[William Parcher]

Does anyone know what the correct term for a group of bigfoot(feet?) are?

Myth.

[kosai]

Now I got the power to LINK! Check out these monkey happenings...

----

CAPE PENINSULA, South Africa -- A criminal gang being blamed for countless burglaries, thefts and vandalism in South Africa is made up entirely of baboons.

http://www.nbc10.com/news/14192288/detail.html

----

Monkeys attack Delhi politician -- Delhi has long struggled to cope with marauding monkeys The deputy mayor of the Indian capital Delhi has died a day after being attacked by a horde of wild monkeys.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7055625.stm

----

Monkey's rampage injures 25

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=75302&in_page_id=34

----


It's amazing people think if there was a "Myth" of Bigfeets walking around they would be so gentle.

[ThunderFoot]

Ok check this out. Many years ago in a small Florida town called Silver Springs they used to film a TV show. They used monkeys of all types and they still run wild there. The TV show was called "Tarzan". It could be that this ape is from those apes. Glen St. Mary and Silver Springs are only about 100 miles apart.

[ynot]

I feel like I have to add to the bigfoot storm that seems to be taking over the JREF.

I read this story and wanted to see how long before this became a "bigfoot is real and has been sighted" story.

Histo/CreekFreak/MOTS, any comments?


http://www.nbc10.com/news/14585860/detail.html
Nah . . . it's the Virgin Mary

Boy that woman gets around

[Akhenaten]

Maybe they travel in pods?

Does anyone know what the correct term for a group of bigfoot(feet?) are?

troop, herd, mob, pack...?

A trip of bigfeet sounds appropriate.

[pchams]

Collective noun for bigfeet. Sounds like fun...

A woo of bigfeet
An imagination of bigfeet
A thought of bigfeet
A credulon of bigfeet

I did like myth :D

[ToddH]

Couldn't have been a bigfoot. Everybody knows bigfoot is invisible. :)

[Cainkane1]

Ok check this out. Many years ago in a small Florida town called Silver Springs they used to film a TV show. They used monkeys of all types and they still run wild there. The TV show was called "Tarzan". It could be that this ape is from those apes. Glen St. Mary and Silver Springs are only about 100 miles apart.

Those are monkeys not apes. They are very small and could never be mistaken for an ape.

[Tirdun]

A "troop" and the like are too common, BF needs something like "pride", you can't have a pride of anything except lions, the whole "pride of lions" redundancy is necessary and a beautiful kludge of language. Plus we need bigfoots vs bigfeet vs bigfoot (plural) settled.

A figment of bigfeet? Meh, too incandescent.
A jam of bigfeet?

Or maybe an entirely new word.

A grunk of bigfeet.
A loblum of bigfeet
An hreth of bigfeet

Or we could be tremendously clever with puns.

A yard of bigfeet (~3)
A fathom of bigfeet (~6)
A furlong of bigfeet (660)
A mile of bigfeet
A league of bigfeet

Or we could round it out and get all pseudo-historically mysterious and call a group of bigfeet a "cubit".

[Jimcalagon]

How about a
dimension of bigfeet?
vibration of bigfeet?
historian of bigfeet?
simulacrum of bigfeet?
hallucination of bigfeet?

[William Parcher]

Bigfeet is commonly used as a plural for Bigfoot, but it is incorrect. Bigfoots is apparently the proper plural term, but I'm not sure if Bigfoot can also serve as a plural term.

We saw evidence that three Bigfoots had poked holes in our bean cans.

We saw evidence that three Bigfoot had poked holes in our bean cans.

Which is mo better?

[Alice Shortcake]

I think these creatures need a name that reflects their personal hygiene:

A dingleberry of bigfoot

;)

[PetersCreek]

It may seem inelegant but how about a creekfreakin' histload of Bigfoots?

[DrewD]

A grip of bigfeet? "Grip" is commonly used as slang already. We really need to settle this here.

[Creekfreak]

Brett I dont think the world is ready for a gang of creekfreaks yet !

[DrewD]

One vote for a "league of bigfeet".

[William Parcher]

One vote for a "league of bigfeet".

Rejected because you aren't paying attention. Would you like "league of Bigfoots"?

[DrewD]

Rejected because you aren't paying attention. Would you like "league of Bigfoots"?

Alright, alright, Bigfoots then.:) I would like to vote for "league of bigfoots".

[Cainkane1]

Some poor escaped ape. I hope it gets captured and is taken good care of.

[PetersCreek]

I've reconsidered my last suggestion...

I'd now like to nominate: a Brannock (http://brannock.com/cgi-bin/start.cgi/brannock/index.html) of Bigfoots

[William Parcher]

I saw one of these creatures in my yard and interestingly it had only one leg. Must have lost the other one from an injury. This put me in an odd situation. What do I call it? I then realized that I could still just call it Bigfoot.

"I saw a Bigfoot with a big foot." But then I realized that I can't just say that out loud to my friends. They will think I saw two Bigfoots. Do I tell them "I saw half of a Bigfoot"? That won't work either because they will think it was dead, and might even think that I had sawed it in half. How about simply saying "I saw a Bigfoot with only one leg"? That will still confuse them because they know that legs are supposed to have feet anyway. Why would I think that a leg would have more than one foot? It only gets worse if I try to describe where I saw it. "There was a Bigfoot in my yard." They would laugh again and explain that all yards have three feet and none of those feet are bigger than any other.

I better just draw a picture to show them and keep my mouth shut. I can't wait to see a BFRO report from some dude who sees a league of baby Bigfoots (they are gonna have small feet) and half of them are missing legs. Try to describe that one, Bubba!

[DrewD]

I'm so confused!

[TX50]

Ook?

[kitakaze]

I have given much thought here in the past to what a collective noun for bigfoots should be. Now if we put on our footer-in-awe hats then we can come up with some terms to reflect the sheer majestic and elusive nature of the sasquatch.

BTW, I'm not sure if this is correct but I'm going with the idea that the plural of sasquatch is sasquatch though I have previously written it as sasquatches. Anyway...

A stride of sasquatch.

A stealth of sasquatch.

A shadow of sasquatch.

A wail of sasquatch.

A bellow of sasquatch.

Or something for the Burgers:

A fade of sasquatch.

A glimmer of sasquatch.

A quanta of sasquatch.

A phase of sasquatch.

Give props/respect:

A meldrum of sasquatch.

A gimpat of sasquatch. (Patterson/Gimlin)

A grover of sasquatch. (Grover Krantz)

As for something reflecting the reality of bigfoot, I think William Parcher's suggestion fits quite nicely:

A myth of sasquatch.

[Creekfreak]

A legend of bigfoot

[DrewD]

I like a myth of sasquatch. Is it too late to change my vote?

[ToddH]

Can't be a bigfoot because it's not invisible.

[Floyd312]

How about a pareidolia of bigfoots?

[manofthesea]

I feel like I have to add to the bigfoot storm that seems to be taking over the JREF.

I read this story and wanted to see how long before this became a "bigfoot is real and has been sighted" story.

Histo/CreekFreak/MOTS, any comments?



Are you seeking advice? Try a psychic or an astrologist. Those topics seem much more prevalent on these boards. There should be an abundance of readily available insight on any topic you may wish to associate with bigfoot.
Let me hear your version of the story first. Then, I'll read your 'link'. I'd like to see how you interpret information.

[manofthesea]

Does your "link" refer to footprints? If so, provide pictures.
Does your link have vocalizations? If so, some audio would be nice.
Maybe it shows a hairy he/she, a brief video would get things started.
If it doesn't have any of the above, then I think you're delving into invisible bigfoot territory. I have no experience there. Never been chased by anything invisible. (bullets don't count, you just can't see 'em)

I get the feeling this a really a disingenuous and backhanded attempt to promote bigfoot. (Go camping, and come back with your own story.)
Have you ever been out camping in the forests? I mean the real forests. The kind that you have to hike into.

[kitakaze]

Does your "link" refer to footprints? If so, provide pictures.
Does your link have vocalizations? If so, some audio would be nice.
Maybe it shows a hairy he/she, a brief video would get things started.
If it doesn't have any of the above, then I think you're delving into invisible bigfoot territory. I have no experience there. Never been chased by anything invisible. (bullets don't count, you just can't see 'em)

I get the feeling this a really a disingenuous and backhanded attempt to promote bigfoot. (Go camping, and come back with your own story.)
Have you ever been out camping in the forests? I mean the real forests. The kind that you have to hike into.Is it really so hard to click and read a link? Did you have any idea what the point Drew was making with the OP?

It's a news story regarding a loose ape, most likely an orangutan. Drew rightly predicted that it would quickly be cryptified by the footers. It took a day for Coleman to call it a cryptid ape. Here's Coleman blogging about the footers swarming on the story and calling it a juvenile bigfoot.

http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/fl-ape-update/

And what does camping experience have to do with anything?

BTW:

Never been chased by anything invisible.Better hope Burgstahler doesn't have a look at your 'BF chased me' story. It'll take him five seconds to tell you you didn't see anything.

[manofthesea]

I feel like I have to add to the bigfoot storm that seems to be taking over the JREF.

I read this story and wanted to see how long before this became a "bigfoot is real and has been sighted" story.

Histo/CreekFreak/MOTS, any comments?


http://www.nbc10.com/news/14585860/detail.html

Not a single 'main player' bothered to respond to your bigfoot story.
(CN {without R.Carlos, Cafu, and Lucio on the backline, your "flair" is meaningless}, Ray, NW, WP, D)

[manofthesea]

Is it really so hard to click and read a link?

And what does camping experience have to do with anything?

BTW:

Better hope Burgstahler doesn't have a look at your 'BF chased me' story. It'll take him five seconds to tell you you didn't see anything.

I want to hear 'his' story. Why do you have a problem with that? Are you playing some type of "Heroes and Helpers"? Roll 2-11

Uh, bigfoot..camping..forests..?

Who's Burgstahler? And why must I "hope" he doesn't read my story? Does he consider himself some type of (sociopathic) footerbot?

[manofthesea]

It's a news story regarding a loose ape, most likely an orangutan. Drew rightly predicted that it would quickly be cryptified by the footers. It took a day for Coleman to call it a cryptid ape.
.

How do you know it was an ape? A simple picture, preferably not too blurry, should help, arguably. Orangutan, that's getting pretty precise. Are you taking some kid's word for that? I'd expect a little (very) more evidence here. Are you ruling out misidentification so quickly now? Maybe they dreamt it, you know, that period when you're not quite awake. I see numerous references to these conclusions, but now, you seem rather hasty in your orangutan determination. Perhaps you're holding out some secret evidence, like fecal samples, hair, or something. Let's have it.

[kitakaze]

Let me hear your version of the story first. Then, I'll read your 'link'. I'd like to see how you interpret information.

I want to hear 'his' story.What makes you think Drew has a version of the 'story'. You're not making any sense. Read the link. It's pretty straightforward.

Uh, bigfoot..camping..forests..?Who's having the misfire? Drew's posting a story about an escaped orangutan has what to do with whether or not he has camping experience?

Who's Burgstahler?That would be historian, Mr. Invisible. I was assuming you were aware of that.

[kitakaze]

How do you know it was an ape?Just read the links already.

[William Parcher]

Once again, Loren Coleman attempts to appeal to the lowest common denominator. These are the people that pay his bills and consider him as the King of Cryptozoology and those things that go bump in the night. This guy is a vandal of critical thinking and of those that would think that the real world is something that can be understood. He lays it all on the line with the Cryptomundo motto which states that "IT'S A CRYPTID WORLD". At least Coleman sees it that way and he has found a way to earn a living from that. Skeptics might say "IT'S A SUCKER WORLD" and that PT Barnum was the historically token man who paid his bills relying on those suckers. It's not that Coleman has lost credibility. He never had it in the first place to lose.

Are you ready to be a sucker by following Coleman Logic? It's about his latest blog and analysis of this creature seen in Florida. (http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/holmes-wipe/) Mostly it's about how Coleman drops the ball he is supposed to be holding and pays his bills by way of the sucker born every minute. He accuses the FL Government of "wipe" (spin-doctoring) while he hopes that you do not notice his own wiping by not being critical of the Animal Control Officer that most certainly saw a sleeping orange ape in her binoculars. Here we go...

As often happens after a clear, concise sighting of something remarkable that then cannot easily be captured, a state or government authority, contrary to local officials, is quoted by the media in an attempt to “explain away” the reports.

Charles Fort called this the “Wipe,” for it was a frequent technique for disposing of the uncomfortable reality of the data that would not disappear. It often was the media trying to move on from the story, as much as the quoted “expert.”

In the recent case from Florida, those that reported the “orange or red ape” in a tree did not say it was a Bigfoot or a Skunk Ape, but merely it looked like an ape, perhaps an orangutan.

Way to go Loren. Nobody really came out to say it was a Bigfoot or Skunk Ape. It's a simple orangutan which would be no big surprise at all. Florida already has a history of feral orangutans, right Loren? A wild Floridian orangutan is just no big deal.

Let’s break this down, very precisely.

No, let's break it down Coleman Style.

Let us not forget this was a confirmed sighting. On November 2, 2007, these two men called Baker County animal control to report seeing what appeared to be a large ape in a tree off Harry Rewis Road, north of Macclenny, Florida.

Yes, a confirmed sighting of a large ape. That is now a concrete. Checks should be made payable to: Loren Coleman.

After the men called, Tina Thomas, an animal control officer in Baker County, responded. She was skeptical.

It's critical to mention that Tina was skeptical until she saw the orange ape with her own eyes. Coleman covers all bases and wants you to think that powerful skepticism was suddenly crushed.

“We got this call and this man said, ‘You are just not going to believe this and I’m not crazy.’ I said, ‘What is it? We’ve heard a lot of things.’ He said, ‘I have a monkey in my tree.’” Thomas said. “I thought the man was on drugs. I said, ‘Are you sure?’ He was like, ‘I’m telling you I’m not on drugs and I ain’t been drinking.’”

He said it was a monkey because he saw that the primate had a tail? Maybe he was just a bumpkin that saw a primate and used the only term he knows and said "monkey". Tina will prove him wrong.

When animal control officer Tina Thomas got to the scene, she saw the animal and realized the caller was right.

LOL. Now Coleman is now about to tell you that the caller was wrong.

She confirmed seeing a “big red fur ball” — apparently an ape — sitting in a tree. She said she saw an orange-colored ape sitting in a tree that was “much larger than a spider monkey.”

You see? It was an ape after all. Tina said so. She must have seen that it had no tail. That's the big clue that it was an ape. She saw it sitting in a tree and it was obviously an ape. She must have seen its butt. Or did she?...

“I wouldn’t have believed it, but I saw it with my own eyes,” she said.

Yep. She saw it and it was an ape. But why the statement, "I wouldn't have believed it..."? She already knew that the caller was wrong. It was an ape - not a monkey! She makes no mention about the caller's sorta right but sorta wrong eyewitness testimony. A feral orange primate (be it monkey or ape) is pretty much unusual for Florida, so the caller was spot-on for reporting an unusual sighting. But she confirms that the caller was technically wrong for calling it a monkey. She saw an orange ape. She is about to tell you what she saw in her binoculars...

About 100 feet up in a tree, the ape fit the description of an orangutan. She said the ape was about 50 pounds, 3 or 4 feet tall and was curled up, nesting in a pile of leaves.

There you go. One-hundred feet up in a tree, curled up (presumably sleeping) in a leaf nest that would support a 50 pound ape and showing a butt with no tail. Got it in my field glasses. The leaf nest is not concealing anything. I will confidently say that it is 3-4 feet tall even though it is curled-up in the nest. I will even say that it is about 50 pounds, because my training as an Animal Control Officer included estimating weights of apes curled up in leaf nests. Been there, done that. Maybe you would question my observation, but are you ready to also question Loren Coleman? He broke this down with precision. He actually used the term precise. Do you think Coleman throws out that term casually? Think again.

Now, faced with not being able to find or capture the animal, later in the week, what is the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission saying it was? A squirrel.

Tina must have left the scene before the sleepy orange ape woke up and started doing ape things.

A squirrel. Really?

Coleman wants to say "no way". Tina saw a dozing red ape which could not be a squirrel. There are no 4-foot tall orange squirrels that lack a tail. She saw an ape and it doesn't matter that she left the scene before it climbed out of its leaf nest. The official Florida State mouthpiece says it might be a squirrel. That "wiper" doesn't understand what precision means. He doesn't understand that his own Animal Control Officer precisely confirmed an orange ape curled-up in a leaf nest 100 feet up a tree. He is obviously a desk dupe that doesn't understand that "IT'S A CRYPTID WORLD". This dork must have never seen the two photographs of the nocturnal black orangutan taken by an old Florida lady in her backyard. This new ape was sleeping during the daytime and it fits in with Colemen's unstated (but obvious) theory that when orangs go feral in Florida... they go nocturnal. One captured on film had even gone black!

There is more in Coleman's blog to trash. I just can't find the energy to go further. OK, maybe just a bit more...

If one of the reasons (see below) for “explaining away” this “red ape” is because it is nocturnal, then why did Fish and Wildlife’s Ken Holmes (see below) pick a diurnal fox squirrel (Sciurus niger)? Flying squirrels are nocturnal, fox squirrels are diurnal.

One last footnote: Yes, while primates generally are diurnal, intriguingly, within cryptozoology, there is one large reddish primate that is nocturnal and reported from Florida ~ the anthropoid Skunk Apes.

Behold Loren Coleman's Nocturnal Black Orangutan photographed by an anonymous granny in Florida...

http://www.lorencoleman.com/images/MAPhotosm.jpg

IT'S A CRYPTID WORLD!

[GT/CS]

........Who's Burgstahler? And why must I "hope" he doesn't read my story? Does he consider himself some type of (sociopathic) footerbot?

This could be fun!

[DrewD]

I want to hear 'his' story. Why do you have a problem with that? Are you playing some type of "Heroes and Helpers"? Roll 2-11

Uhhh, what? try reading the story before you make a complete idiot of yourself. I have no story.

Uh, bigfoot..camping..forests..?

Not that it makes any difference, I have been an avid outdoors man for a large portion of my life. No encounters what so ever.

[LTC8K6]

You mean you don't believe this is a sasquatch in it's visible form?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_793473fbf83e9111.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=9271)

[manofthesea]

Not that it makes any difference, I have been an avid outdoors man for a large portion of my life. No encounters what so ever.

I didn't mean tennis.

[kitakaze]

I didn't mean tennis.Non sequitur. You knew that, though.

[DrewD]

I didn't mean tennis.

Expected.

How about it, did you finally read the link? If you do, you will see the point that I was making was simply that the footers will take anything possible and make it into a sighting. As usual, they did not disappoint.

By the way, you really should drop in on the Bigfoot: the invisible variety thread sometime. If for no other reason, just to see the madness that Neal, a fellow footer, is spewing. He really is giving you guys a bad name.:rolleyes:

Right here:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=94981&page=1

[manofthesea]

Expected.

How about it, did you finally read the link? If you do, you will see the point that I was making was simply that the footers will take anything possible and make it into a sighting. As usual, they did not disappoint.

By the way, you really should drop in on the Bigfoot: the invisible variety thread sometime. If for no other reason, just to see the madness that Neal, a fellow footer, is spewing. He really is giving you guys a bad name.:rolleyes:

Right here:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=94981&page=1

You're mostly right. I couldn't resist the opportunity to show how simple it is to be skeptical of sasquatch stories. Even though it seems readily accepted that a primate creature, somewhat large was witnessed by a few people. No evidence has been provided whatsoever, though. The donut part wouldn't go very far on this forum if it pertained to bigfoot.

I appreciate you guys on this forum, really. It's easy to be impersonal online.

(Now that my report finally went official, I've lost the desire for general combative behavior. I stick to my story(s). I'm not going anywhere, though.)

Invisible bigfoot seems to be more alien than earthly. How does anyone know if it's hairy, breaks trees, or sticks to light sabers?

And no, I didn't link, nor do I ever. I saw mention of it on BFF.

[William Parcher]

Invisible bigfoot seems to be more alien than earthly. How does anyone know if it's hairy, breaks trees, or sticks to light sabers?

When you were a kid you encountered a real flesh & blood Bigfoot on a rampage. All creatures great and small fled from it like a tidal wave of fear. It broke everything in its path and screamed as loud as a jet plane, right? You saw its footprints afterwards too, didn't you?

[William Parcher]

Coleman injects drama. Who said what and when? (http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/holmes-mystery/)

What are the realities in this mysterious enigma and what is merely media hype? And what of Ms. Tina Thomas and her tortured trauma upon seeing the tree-bound anthropoid with binoculars? (Okay, yes, she had the binoculars, not the ape.) Was the other person there that saw the red ape through the eyeglasses none other than Mr. Holmes? Where did the trail of orange peels end? Only Mr. Holmes and Ms. Thomas may know the answers to many of these riddles.

Hey Loren, what about the leaf nest? It should still be there, right? It has to be large enough to support a 3-4 foot red ape that weighs about 50 pounds. Probably full of red ape hairs. How hard would it be to examine the leaf nest to support or discount Tina's precise observation?

[Correa Neto]

No way, duuuuuuuuuuude!

BigFooter Field Investigation Manual golden rule:

"Go home when you're close!"

[Correa Neto]

(CN {without R.Carlos, Cafu, and Lucio on the backline, your "flair" is meaningless}, Ray, NW, WP, D)
That must be bigfoot lingo...

You know, kinda like the famous Sierra Sounds and the claimed bigfoot language recordings...

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Once again, Loren Coleman attempts to appeal to the lowest common denominator. These are the people that pay his bills and consider him as the King of Cryptozoology and those things that go bump in the night.

I've often wondered if Jerry Coleman was taking a subtle dig at his brother when he wrote this (http://www.cryptozoology.com/forum/topic_view_thread.php?tid=11&pid=151441).

Mostly it's about how Coleman drops the ball he is supposed to be holding and pays his bills by way of the sucker born every minute. He accuses the FL Government of "wipe" (spin-doctoring) while he hopes that you do not notice his own wiping by not being critical of the Animal Control Officer that most certainly saw a sleeping orange ape in her binoculars.

Coleman accusing people of trying to "wipe" stuff is hilariously ironic. Cryptomundo is infamous for deleting/editing comments that point out the gaping flaws in the so-called "reality" of creatures like Mothman, Bigfoot, etc. Or what about the time an old "Bigfoot sighting" with the explanation of it being a horse was mocked. Funny how the image showing why the explanation made sense (http://home.att.net/~mhall.mysteries/MILWJRNL_MEDFORDGRY.GIF) got left out. Similarly, there's the whole "LOL otters." Despite it being proven (via pictures and video) that otters can swim in lines **

Coleman wants to say "no way". Tina saw a dozing red ape which could not be a squirrel. There are no 4-foot tall orange squirrels that lack a tail. She saw an ape and it doesn't matter that she left the scene before it climbed out of its leaf nest. The official Florida State mouthpiece says it might be a squirrel. That "wiper" doesn't understand what precision means. He doesn't understand that his own Animal Control Officer precisely confirmed an orange ape curled-up in a leaf nest 100 feet up a tree.

Since Cryptomundo saw fit to not post my comment about how the fox squirrel is also known as the "monkey-faced squirrel" and my interest in looking up pictures after learning that, I'll post my findings here:

According to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Squirrel) Wikipedia article, "Total body length measures 45 to 70 cm (17.71" - 27.55"), tail length is 20 to 33 cm(7.87" - 13") , and they range in weight from 500 to 1000 grams (1.1 lbs - 2.2 lbs.). This site (http://www.vamoosevarmint.com/squirrel_control_removal.htm) says that they're the largest of the North American squirrel species.

This picture (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/51/Sciurus_niger.jpg/400px-Sciurus_niger.jpg) shows how a tail can seem like something else.

A fox squirrel laying down in a way that might seem odd to casual observers (http://www.tradebit.com/usr/bfmrhm/pub/9002/P6070028.jpg).

Boy, fox squirrels seem to like resting in positions that hide (http://sc.audubon.org/education/images/fox%20squirrel120704b.jpg) their (http://sc.audubon.org/education/images/fox%20squirrel120704a.jpg) tails (http://sc.audubon.org/education/images/fox%20squirrel120704.jpg).

Bear with me on this one (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.austinec.com/photos/Fox_Squirrel1.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.austinec.com/mainframecontact.html&h=728&w=654&sz=135&hl=en&start=197&um=1&tbnid=qcvRUZNJEG_6vM:&tbnh=141&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfox%2Bsquirrel%26start%3D180%26ndsp%3 D20%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26ie% 3DUTF-8). Notice how monkeylike the squirrel seems in the small preview image.

A fat, orange fox squirrel. (http://www.jonesctr.org/research/wildlife_research/graphics/SQUIRREL9.jpg)

A fox squirrel doing an interesting, standing pose. (http://www.neoperceptions.com/fauna/mammals/images/foxsquirrel2.jpg) I can easily imagine someone mistaking this for a lemur. See also: This picture (http://www.discover-seatrail.com/images/FoxSquirrel.JPG).

Another standing fox squirrel picture that I found interesting (http://www.scarysquirrel.org/current/fox/slides/image_42.html).

A fox squirrel with a nest (http://www.scarysquirrel.org/current/fox/slides/image_80.html).

More on nests (http://www.gpnc.org/fox.htm). Now I'm wondering if the size of the nest is what could've influenced the size/weight estimate.

[manofthesea]

When you were a kid you encountered a real flesh & blood Bigfoot on a rampage. All creatures great and small fled from it like a tidal wave of fear. It broke everything in its path and screamed as loud as a jet plane, right? You saw its footprints afterwards too, didn't you?

Is this "bigfoot envy"?

[manofthesea]

That must be bigfoot lingo...

You know, kinda like the famous Sierra Sounds and the claimed bigfoot language recordings...

I guess that some of us 'encounter's lament the demise of the bambi, I mean samba boys.

Whoever claimed the Sierra Sounds was famous?

Who claimed bigfoot has a language of their own?

[manofthesea]

That must be bigfoot lingo...

You know the claimed bigfoot language recordings...

You know, you might be onto something. Maybe bigfeet speak Spanish. From the old mission days. Before Lewis and Clark discovered the area. Maybe if we had Charo singing and hollering in the forest. At the least, we'd get rocks.:)

[manofthesea]

I already know who Kitakaze is. He's in (his padded cell) Tokyo, thoroughly sickened by bigfoot. I say that playing with pheromones has consequences.
Correa Neto is the UFO abductee, or something. I'm not sure.
William Parcher, LTC8K6, Atomic Myster Monster, never divulged their extensive personal history with bigfoot. It'd be fun to know your personal stories of failure in experiencing this creature. Not really interested in Drew or Ray's history. Thanks guys. Unless the shame is too great, it'll be fun, like I already said.

[manofthesea]

Once again, Loren Coleman attempts to appeal to the lowest common denominator. These are the people that pay his bills and consider him as the King of Cryptozoology and those things that go bump in the night. This guy is a vandal of critical thinking and of those that would think that the real world is something that can be understood. He lays it all on the line with the Cryptomundo motto which states that "IT'S A CRYPTID WORLD". At least Coleman sees it that way and he has found a way to earn a living from that. Skeptics might say "IT'S A SUCKER WORLD" and that PT Barnum was the historically token man who paid his bills relying on those suckers. It's not that Coleman has lost credibility. He never had it in the first place to lose.

Are you ready to be a sucker by following Coleman Logic? It's about his latest blog and analysis of this creature seen in Florida. (http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/holmes-wipe/) Mostly it's about how Coleman drops the ball he is supposed to be holding and pays his bills by way of the sucker born every minute. He accuses the FL Government of "wipe" (spin-doctoring) while he hopes that you do not notice his own wiping by not being critical of the Animal Control Officer that most certainly saw a sleeping orange ape in her binoculars. Here we go...





Way to go Loren. Nobody really came out to say it was a Bigfoot or Skunk Ape. It's a simple orangutan which would be no big surprise at all. Florida already has a history of feral orangutans, right Loren? A wild Floridian orangutan is just no big deal.



No, let's break it down Coleman Style.



Yes, a confirmed sighting of a large ape. That is now a concrete. Checks should be made payable to: Loren Coleman.



It's critical to mention that Tina was skeptical until she saw the orange ape with her own eyes. Coleman covers all bases and wants you to think that powerful skepticism was suddenly crushed.



He said it was a monkey because he saw that the primate had a tail? Maybe he was just a bumpkin that saw a primate and used the only term he knows and said "monkey". Tina will prove him wrong.



LOL. Now Coleman is now about to tell you that the caller was wrong.



You see? It was an ape after all. Tina said so. She must have seen that it had no tail. That's the big clue that it was an ape. She saw it sitting in a tree and it was obviously an ape. She must have seen its butt. Or did she?...



Yep. She saw it and it was an ape. But why the statement, "I wouldn't have believed it..."? She already knew that the caller was wrong. It was an ape - not a monkey! She makes no mention about the caller's sorta right but sorta wrong eyewitness testimony. A feral orange primate (be it monkey or ape) is pretty much unusual for Florida, so the caller was spot-on for reporting an unusual sighting. But she confirms that the caller was technically wrong for calling it a monkey. She saw an orange ape. She is about to tell you what she saw in her binoculars...



There you go. One-hundred feet up in a tree, curled up (presumably sleeping) in a leaf nest that would support a 50 pound ape and showing a butt with no tail. Got it in my field glasses. The leaf nest is not concealing anything. I will confidently say that it is 3-4 feet tall even though it is curled-up in the nest. I will even say that it is about 50 pounds, because my training as an Animal Control Officer included estimating weights of apes curled up in leaf nests. Been there, done that. Maybe you would question my observation, but are you ready to also question Loren Coleman? He broke this down with precision. He actually used the term precise. Do you think Coleman throws out that term casually? Think again.



Tina must have left the scene before the sleepy orange ape woke up and started doing ape things.



Coleman wants to say "no way". Tina saw a dozing red ape which could not be a squirrel. There are no 4-foot tall orange squirrels that lack a tail. She saw an ape and it doesn't matter that she left the scene before it climbed out of its leaf nest. The official Florida State mouthpiece says it might be a squirrel. That "wiper" doesn't understand what precision means. He doesn't understand that his own Animal Control Officer precisely confirmed an orange ape curled-up in a leaf nest 100 feet up a tree. He is obviously a desk dupe that doesn't understand that "IT'S A CRYPTID WORLD". This dork must have never seen the two photographs of the nocturnal black orangutan taken by an old Florida lady in her backyard. This new ape was sleeping during the daytime and it fits in with Colemen's unstated (but obvious) theory that when orangs go feral in Florida... they go nocturnal. One captured on film had even gone black!

There is more in Coleman's blog to trash. I just can't find the energy to go further. OK, maybe just a bit more...



Behold Loren Coleman's Nocturnal Black Orangutan photographed by an anonymous granny in Florida...

http://www.lorencoleman.com/images/MAPhotosm.jpg

IT'S A CRYPTID WORLD!

Did Tina provide any type of evidence for her orange ape 100 feet up a tree in Florida? You know, pictures, castes, hair, feces, etc.

I'd like to see the physical proof of a black orangutan. A simple DNA analysis would do.

[Correa Neto]

Spanish, UFO abductions, samba and bambi. Well, I can see some links with bigfoot...

Bambi <-> Skookum cast

UFO <-> alien bigfoot

Abduction <-> that guy who claimed to have been abducted by a bigfoot family

Spanish <-> Check a thread at BFF about sounds that may have been made by bigfeet. Some claim it sounds like a Spanish word or two. As for the link with the Missions, some of your footerfellows who support the idea that bigfeet (or bigfoots, or bigfoot, whatever) can talk will say they probably will have some Native American words incorporated to their language, dialect, babble, etc. Even English words, so they can talk while stalking humans.

Samba <-> Never heard about bigfeet dancing samba. I don't even want to think about Patty dancing samba, since I have a highly pictorial mind and... EEEEK! Just pictured it. Awfull. Terrible. Horrendous. The stuff nightmares are made of.

OK, your turn to find links:

Evidence, quality, standard, methodology

[DrewD]

Not really interested in Drew or Ray's history. Thanks guys. Unless the shame is too great, it'll be fun, like I already said.

Wait... you don't want to know my history? Why would you automatically discount my and Ray's history?

[LTC8K6]

I don't have an extensive personal history with anything that doesn't exist.

If you mean the topic, I've been interested in it since I was a child and read a book of bigfoot encounter stories.

[Hamradioguy]

I want too commend their efforts in capturing the creature.

"He said he took a pack of jelly donuts and left it at the bottom of the tree, hoping to lure the creature to the ground. He said he hasn't heard anything since."

Way to go buddy. Keep up the good work. Was he expecting it to call him and thank him for the donuts?


Jelly Donuts? What's that all about? I thought you used jelly donuts to quickly attract a law enforcement person. Don't apes eat something else?

[DrewD]

Jelly Donuts? What's that all about? I thought you used jelly donuts to quickly attract a law enforcement person. Don't apes eat something else?

Sugar Cookies!

Or Poo!

[Creekfreak]

Something that people fail to see is the palmettos they dont grow very tall here in fla .
From the looks of it this creature is probly less then 5 ft tall .
Then you have to take into account how tall the lady was that took the picture it looks like she was short to me from the angle of the pic .

[Creekfreak]

I just noticed why is my picture in your photo file Lt ?
You have to admit thats a cool pic it blew me away when he gave it to me .

[drapier]

Jelly Donuts? What's that all about? I thought you used jelly donuts to quickly attract a law enforcement person. Don't apes eat something else?


Haven't you ever heard of the great Kentucky pancake caper? Bigfoot steals plate of pancakes. (http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/lawsuit1/)

[Creekfreak]

Becouse of that I bought 25 boxes of pancake mix at the dollor store anybody want to come over for pancakes ?

[DrewD]

Becouse of that I bought 25 boxes of pancake mix at the dollor store anybody want to come over for pancakes ?

No thanks. Anything that bigfoot will not eat is an indicator that I should pass too.

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

My "Bigfoot background" is pretty much the same as LTC8K6's. I was a believer as a kid, switched to being a fence-sitter, and eventually became a skeptic (thanks to a combination of realizing that the Loch Ness Monster was just misidentifications, optical illusions, hoaxes, etc. and to poking around the Bigfoot threads here at the JREF forums).

Getting back on topic, it seems that Cryptomundo saw to to approve my comment about wanting to look up more information on fox squirrels (but still seem to refuse to put up my post pointing out the many flaws in Dr. Meldrum's recent paper on footprints). Simiarly, they recently posted a letter from the BFRO claiming that a spider monkey is responsible for the sightings. (http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/wright-writes) It seems that the original witness said it had a tail...

[Correa Neto]

Why bother posting there? The censoring will never allow any reasonable debate.

Cryptomundo is the sort of "skeptics-free" zone some pro-bigfoot posters once openly stated they longed for. I would say it provides an interesting insight on how cryptozoology works, from the "researchers" down to their fans. Oh, one can find some nice tales there also. Some are delightfully corny and/or cheesy.

Its also OK, I think, to keep the "who knows, maybe" approach and check it sometimes to see if something more reliable shows up. But investing time debating there seems pointless for me.

[kitakaze]

Its also OK, I think, to keep the "who knows, maybe" approach and check it sometimes to see if something more reliable shows up. But investing time debating there seems pointless for me.Binder Dundat. Want the time typing deleted posts back.

[Correa Neto]

I'm sorry to tell you but this is not going to happen...

The same is valid regarding some of my exchanges with certain footers...

Carpe diem et tempus fugit

[SteveGrenard]

Florida is home to literally thousands of escaped or released or stow-away non-native animals. Thanks to its hospitable climate and terrain many of these have gone on to establish themselves such as a colony of monkeys have in a park not far from Hollywood, Fl.

And years ago an attraction in South Florida called Monkey Jungle:

http://www.monkeyjungle.com


had some of their attraction escape in the midst of a hurricane....remember most such attractions are outdoors and Monkey Jungle actually has free roaming monkey's on their fenced in property until a hurricane unexpectedly decimated the restraints.

(In fact they have photos of orangs on their opening website page although I am not saying this sighting was an animal that came from their compound.)

People also keep exotics (term used for non-native species) as pets and orangs up to a certain age are pretty popular. People keep them with or without permits to do so. It is not so far fetched that when an ape such as an orang or a chimp become too big to handle that they are released by their owners rather than turned in to be caged for the rest of their lives. This is what some call the Born Free or Free Willy syndrome.

I think what we are looking at here is yet another instance of a released or escaped exotic and this is nothing new in Florida.

ETA: If its an escapee it is likely not to be reported if it was unlicensed.

[SteveGrenard]

Reference the so-called Florida black orang picture linked to above, this bears somewhat of a resemblance to a little known member of the Ape family known as the siamang which is naturally black.

A pair of captive siamangs:

[SteveGrenard]

Also: In Orang-utan Biology by Jeffrey Schwartz (1988) there are referenced reports of coloration variation in orangs, along with other variations depending on different populations found on different islands. One of the variations according to this author is "blackish-brown". see page 19, "Hair Color" bottom paragraph and continuing on page 21of the on-line version of this book at:

http://books.google.com/books?id=K6XZOOinwPAC&pg=PA19&lpg=PA19&dq=maroon+orangutans&source=web&ots=vzQpP2t2Vs&sig=gYW1FXppy0ZeAaupbuQcWR7KOOE#PPA21,M1

[erikbeckjord]

Yes they have been seeing that thing down there for years there is even a picture of it some old lady took and gave to the cops .
At least they are not denying people are seeing something thats a start .
I dont think its a bigfoot myself from the picture Ive seen more like an orangatang .
A primate like this could live many years in the jungles of florida .
If he is nesting in trees near a populated area that just means he is not scared of humans but just likes to be in the wild not in a cage .
As long as he is not hurting anybody keep giveing him those jelly doughnuts and leave him alone .

I trust you refer to the Myakka bigfoot photos.

Well, you are right to be skeptical of a flesh and blood critter,
but if some of the TULPA theories are right, then it or they are in a different
class of being, beyond normal criticism.

If the theories of quantum physics re parallel universes are right, as seen in the book, HUNT FOR THE SKINWALKER (very good)
then Shermer, Randi and others are simply by-passed.

El Monstro

[kitakaze]

I trust you refer to the Myakka bigfoot photos.

Well, you are right to be skeptical of a flesh and blood critter,
but if some of the TULPA theories are right, then it or they are in a different
class of being, beyond normal criticism.

If the theories of quantum physics re parallel universes are right, as seen in the book, HUNT FOR THE SKINWALKER (very good)
then Shermer, Randi and others are simply by-passed.

El MonstroWe already have a thread on the subject where Neal Burgstahler shares with us what he claims to be his foremost expertise.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=94981

[SteveGrenard]

Visualizing something such as a hairy ape based on TULPA theory is a hallucination and hallucinations including mass hallucinations cannot be photographed. It would take me two seconds to tell you that the photo below is not TULPA inspired but an actual orang u tan
of the blackish-brown variety, as documented in Schwartz' text on orang biology cited above.

Given the presence of what look like white hairs it is probably an elderly one at that.
Its scraggly, dirty-smelly appearance is the result of poor to non-existent grooming because it is solitary and has no partner to groom him or her and vice versa. If it is living among Saw Palmettos it also has no clean bug-free place to nest which is normally high in the canopy of the trees in its native land. So this will contribute to its scraggly appearance.

My belated answer to the question in the thread title is Never .....the animal sighted in the OP was obviously an orang u tan. The stupid remark that no one is licensed to own one in that county is not even worthy of an answer. And the animal photographed below is another color variety of the same species.

[SteveGrenard]

I just want to add that many people are naive if they don't accept the innumerable possibilities for free living monkeys and apes in Florida. Many unregistered owners of such animals existed, their animals released or escaped over the years. One I am personally familiar with is Gertrude Davies Lintz who moved her menagerie from Brooklyn to Ojus, Florida in the late fifities. Both her and her husband passed on but I could never document what happened to her animals. I would have to assume she may've freed many of them although many were living "free" on her property already. Mrs. Lintz had no children except that she considered her chimps and baby gorillas as her kids.

Here is an interim newsletter on a project that is typical of efforts in Florida to rehab, house or provide sanctuary for apes and monkeys. While such licensed efforts are noble and usually well thought out, it is obvious that animals can escape and will thrive in rural Florida landscape:

http://monkeymaddness.com/apes_monkeys/bbm47.htm


Center for Orangutan and Chimpanzee Conservation P.O. Box 488 Wauchula, FL 33873
Fax (941) 767-8904 (941) 767-8903


This has been a year of challenges, growth; and accomplishments for us as we've worked to make our dream of creating a great ape sanctuary finally materialize. We've been inundated with' projects, changes, and new adjustments and haven't sent out a member newsletter for some time. So, I'd like to update you with what's been happening with this sanctuary project. (Our next newsletter is finally in the works and will be mailed out this fall.)

The exciting news is that after eight months of construction, our Center is close to completing its first phase. Pongo and the other apes were moved into their new habitats four months ago and seem to love their beautiful new 30' tall geodesic-domed enclosures. They've adjusted very well to a slower pace in this forest setting. Their outdoor habitats have natural oak tree logs for climbing, ropes and vines for swinging, tall grasses to relax in, and many enrichment toys. The indoor night houses are heated for the winter with large hammocks to sleep in... and they're built to withstand hurricanes!

but if some of the TULPA theories are right, then it or they are in a different class of being, beyond normal criticism

People are certainly entitled to their hallucinations. But if clearly & reliably photographed or witnessed by many different people they are not classifiiable as anything other than what they are.

[manofthesea]

I just want to add that many people are naive if they don't accept the innumerable possibilities

People are certainly entitled to their hallucinations. But if clearly & reliably photographed or witnessed by many different people they are not classifiiable as anything other than what they are.

You said it.

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Why bother posting there? The censoring will never allow any reasonable debate.

I post in the hopes that I can offer information to any fence-sitters who visit there. I've also noticed an interesting correlation between my mentioning being censored there at this forum and having my comments suddenly appear on the site. On the other hand, it has been getting pretty boring over there as of late...

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

While I agree that the basic idea of people seeing what they want to see/believe in is true, the idea that beliefs can form a physical being is absurd. After all, wouldn't energy being converted to matter and back to energy again cause gigantic explosions? Also, wouldn't the combined power of various major religions produce numerous, competing deities?

[William Parcher]

...It would take me two seconds to tell you that the photo below is not TULPA inspired but an actual orang u tan
of the blackish-brown variety, as documented in Schwartz' text on orang biology cited above.

That is not a photo of an orangutan. It's a fake animal.

Given the presence of what look like white hairs it is probably an elderly one at that. Its scraggly, dirty-smelly appearance is the result of poor to non-existent grooming because it is solitary and has no partner to groom him or her and vice versa. If it is living among Saw Palmettos it also has no clean bug-free place to nest which is normally high in the canopy of the trees in its native land. So this will contribute to its scraggly appearance.

My belated answer to the question in the thread title is Never .....the animal sighted in the OP was obviously an orang u tan. The stupid remark that no one is licensed to own one in that county is not even worthy of an answer. And the animal photographed below is another color variety of the same species.

This is a hoax...

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9269&d=1196018413

Steve, you seem confident that there are feral apes living in Florida. We know that there are isolated populations of monkeys and occasional found individuals of various common captive species. There is no evidence of any feral apes (gorilla, chimp, orangutan and gibbon) living anywhere in Florida. The only thing we have is anecdotal stories about wild apes. There is almost nothing substancial about the 'new red furry primate' reported that would really qualify it to be an orangutan. It just doesn't make sense that this would be a feral orang that is being seen. I say that even though I know that Florida has some exotic primates that have reverted to a feral existence after being released or escaping.

[SteveGrenard]

It could very well be a hoax, red-eye and all. Where is the evidence exposing it as such?

You seem fairly confident that there could be no apes such as orangs free living in Florida. Why is that? Is it because besides the recent sighting and this photo deemed a hoax by you you feel it is impossible for some reason? What would that be?
Is it just absence of evidence which, of course, is not evidence of absence?

[LTC8K6]

I think the myakka photos are a hoax as well. The creature looks pasted in to me, and the vegetation in front of it's mouth looks pasted in as well.

It also doesn't really look like an orang to me. Superficially it resembles one, but when you look close, the resemblance fades, imo.

When I look at the whole photo, the scene appears to be lit with vehicle headlights to me, which doesn't match the story told.

[LTC8K6]

This is lit with the headlights from a vehicle, imo. Not a camera flash.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/793473fbf83e9111.jpg

[William Parcher]

It could very well be a hoax, red-eye and all. Where is the evidence exposing it as such?

The whole incident reeks of a hoax. The creature itself does not closely resemble any living primate. The hoaxer was shooting for a skunk ape photo, but the believing cryptozoology community has mostly settled on a strange feral orangutan. Plenty of them are confident that this is a hoax. The eyeshine might even be tiny lights rather than reflections.

You seem fairly confident that there could be no apes such as orangs free living in Florida. Why is that? Is it because besides the recent sighting and this photo deemed a hoax by you you feel it is impossible for some reason? What would that be? Is it just absence of evidence which, of course, is not evidence of absence?

Yeah, it's the absence of evidence. There is no evidence that any apes are living in the Florida wilds. The recent claimed sightings mean very little because none of the eyewitnesses tell a convincing story that what they saw was an ape.

[DrewD]

I trust you refer to the Myakka bigfoot photos.

Well, you are right to be skeptical of a flesh and blood critter,
but if some of the TULPA theories are right, then it or they are in a different
class of being, beyond normal criticism.

If the theories of quantum physics re parallel universes are right, as seen in the book, HUNT FOR THE SKINWALKER (very good)
then Shermer, Randi and others are simply by-passed.

El Monstro

You really need to go to this thread:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=94981

[SteveGrenard]

The Florida FW Fish and Game Commission has stated that they believe the
red furry animal seen high up in a tree in Baker Co near JAX is not an orangutan but a giant, 2 foot long, red phase Fox Squirrel. The nightime photo of the animal you say is a fake was in Hardee County. I concede it very well could've been an old taxidermied animal and of course there is no end to the possibilities for somebody in the proverbial gorilla suit.
The picture is genuine.

Invisible big foots are too elusive for me but thanks for the link.

Many folks seem incredulous that orangutans could be held as “pets” in the U.S., particularly Florida and that such animals have escaped. There are literally 1000s of escaped. stow-aways or released exotics in Florida with the largest numbers being among the amphibians and reptiles. Large mammals including apes would be much scarcer but need not be completely absent. Apes are protected by international law but many were imported and continue to live and reproduce in captivity before such laws went into effect; and, of course, there’s smuggling to be current demand:

Jakarta - Some 1,000 orangutans, an endangered species in Indonesia, are smuggled out of the province of Central Kalimantan each year, an environmental group said Monday.
Profauna Indonesia blamed weak law enforcement in the area for allowing continued smuggling of the animal, which they say could become extinct in a decade in Kalimantan, and in five years in its other Indonesian habitat on Sumatra island<snipped>
A baby orangutan can fetch up to 110 dollars if bought in the local areas where they live. The price can increase to between 300 and 1,000 dollars when sold in Java and some 50,000-dollars on the international market.


http://science.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_1032889.php/1000_orangutans_smuggled_out_of_Indonesian_provinc e_annually

And the following is a quote in an article from the Honolulu Zoo:

However, the capture of young orangutans for the pet trade is ongoing. In order for a baby or juvenile orangutan to be captured the mother must be killed first. Field experts say that on average, 2 adults are killed in order to successfully secure 1 baby. Typically, up to 5 babies are shipped together in a single box, in hopes that one will survive the arduous journey. From December 2002 to June 2003, 40 orangutans were smuggled out of Indonesia to Taiwan, Japan, United Kingdom, Italy, Germany, Canada and the Netherlands.

Bold faced:Canada. These are the orangs that were intercepted which means there were likely to be many other shipments which were not stopped. Smuggling them into Canada is a transit point to easily slip them into the U.S. and the money involved at that point is substantial. Escapees will thus not be reported as the
penalties for having such an animal are pretty stiff. Letting one get away is also
pretty stupid.

http://www.honoluluzoo.org/orangutan.htm

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

SteveGrenard,

Although I'm quite open to the idea of escaped orangutans in America, doesn't the mention of a tail by the original witness rule out that explanation?

As for the Myakka pictures, that's a tricky case. It's tempting to say that it's just misrepresented pictures of an orangutan, but then why does it have yellow eyeshine? There are also problems with the letter associated with it. If you're concerned about an orangutan loose in your area, why would you mail an anonymous letter to the police instead of calling animal control? This sets off many alarm bells to me.

This thread (http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=17960)raises some very interesting points on the matter (and possible ways it could've been faked). I also found some very interesting remarks (http://www.stancourtney.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=3242&sid=7941e30b6a3fa7a3797464a1566f7df5) about the background of the Myakka photos that would make the possibility of a hoax very likely. Sadly, the person making those remarks is Matthew Moneymaker of the BFRO, so they should be taken with a grain of salt. Hopefully a more reliable person could look into the matter.

When I found a reference to an Asian costume that supposedly matched up to the subject of the photographs (http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/myakka2002.htm), I just had to see if I could find it. First I tried looking up orangutan costumes and accessories. The best of the bunch (IMO) was this (http://www.caufields.com/browseproducts/Orangutan-Action-Mask.HTML). But as good as it is, it's not a match. Here are some (http://www.caufields.com/browseproducts/Orangutan-Shirt.HTML) other (http://www.caufields.com/browseproducts/Orangutan-Action-Gloves.HTML) products (http://www.caufields.com/browseproducts/Orangutan-Feet-with-Hair.HTML) associated with that mask.

But while poking around on the site where I found that, I also found a Chimp mask (http://www.caufields.com/browseproducts/Chimp-Action-Mask.html) by the same manufacturer. Searching around led me to two (http://www.nightmarefactory.com/1009BSS.jpg) other (http://www.halloween-mask.com/super_action_chimp_m6001zgne.htm) photographs of it. I think the moving jaw and the "beard" vaguely reminded me of the Myakka pictures.

While doing a different search, I stumbled across this gorilla mask (http://www.garmentdistrict.com/store/party/costume/masks/gorilla-combo.jpg) that I get a Myakka-ish vibe from. However, the hair color and nostil size (among other details) rule out using an unaltered version of this mask. On the other hand, it's hard to get a good look at the facial features in the Myakka pictures due to the leaves obscuring the face. Interesting, that...

Here are some other open (http://www.nightmarefactory.com/FW8546G.jpg)-mouthed (http://www.themenight.com/images/big/23821-ver2.jpg) ape masks (http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/31026.jpg).

[PBTree]

Two things: First the shadows of the leaves on that plant, don't appear to show up on the "monkey/ape" in the close up photo???? Or am I seeing things?

Secondly, multiple bigfoot from earlier in the thread would have to be called either a herd (because we were all convinced by someone that it was more of a pig than a primate), or called a quiver because of their ability to fire a crossbow.

[SteveGrenard]

It also doesn't really look like an orang to me. Superficially it resembles one, but when you look close, the resemblance fades, imo.

Man in a costume, a dummied up taxidermied specimen or an actual creature,
there are a few interesting things in the photo of the blackish-brown animal of
interest:

1. If you examine the head carefully you will see the characteristic arc shape
over which the hair is draped. This is very subtle. Look closely. A hand lens
may help.

2. If you examine the thorax you will see the chest shield peeking out from behind
the plant matter.

3. I posit if this is real ( I agree without a live, breathing animal in front of us,
no one can know for sure looking at this second hand as it were)...then
it is an elderly animal. They live to 50 in captivity.

And if it is that old, changes in the craniofacial structure have been well documented by
Dr. Linda Winkler who, in fact, did her pHD thesis on this very subject. If you go
back to Jeffrey Schwartz' book above you'll find a discussion of this on page 189.

So it may not resemble our normal perception of what the orang utan looks like.

[William Parcher]

The Florida FW Fish and Game Commission has stated that they believe the red furry animal seen high up in a tree in Baker Co near JAX is not an orangutan but a giant, 2 foot long, red phase Fox Squirrel. The nightime photo of the animal you say is a fake was in Hardee County. I concede it very well could've been an old taxidermied animal and of course there is no end to the possibilities for somebody in the proverbial gorilla suit. The picture is genuine.

One witness described something more like a spider monkey. They said it had a very long tail. But they didn't mention very long arms and legs which would have also been obvious if seen.

The Myakka creature doesn't look like any known primate. The face sorta looks like an orang but then again it doesn't. The dagger-like lower canines are all wrong. The overall black coloration is wrong. It's active at night which is wrong for apes and nearly all other primates. It might not be a true taxidermy, full body figure or a guy in a suit. It could be a simple wooden frame with a head and draping fur. It looks like the right arm is extremely long and is just hanging there.

Many folks seem incredulous that orangutans could be held as “pets” in the U.S., particularly Florida and that such animals have escaped. There are literally 1000s of escaped. stow-aways or released exotics in Florida with the largest numbers being among the amphibians and reptiles. Large mammals including apes would be much scarcer but need not be completely absent. Apes are protected by international law but many were imported and continue to live and reproduce in captivity before such laws went into effect; and, of course, there’s smuggling to be current demand...

Again the situation is not that apes cannot be living in Florida - it's that we have no evidence for it. What is the purpose of simply proposing that there are feral apes in Florida when nobody is really claiming to see them anyway? The closest we get are eyewitnesses claiming to see skunk apes and I believe most of those are described as bipedal. If anyone gets a good look, they ought to be able to say if it was a gorilla, chimp or orang. I find it unusual that Animal Control Officer Tina Thomson described seeing (with binoculars) a 3-4 foot tall 50 pound red furry "ape" curled up in a leaf nest... but didn't call it an orangutan. Does she herself not realize that a red ape of that size must be an orang? I also don't understand why we are not hearing of the examination of the leaf nest.

You posted a photo of a red squirrel, not a fox squirrel.

So it may not resemble our normal perception of what the orang utan looks like.

Yeah, no kidding. This orangutan is black as coal and lurks about after dark instead of sleeping in his leaf nest. Old orangutans tend to have worn and yellowed teeth.

[SteveGrenard]

Again, I will re-cite two well known, respected orang experts, Jeffrey Schwartz and Linda Winkler, both of whom are eminently Googable.

http://www.lasuerte.org/facultywinkler.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_H._Schwartz

I am surprised neither of them have chosen to weigh in on this animal. I am merely asking readers to consider the possibilities for what is seen in this case from a clinical point of view.

This reply is not in reference to the red or orange animal seen in a tree in Baker Co.which may’ve been a giant red fox squirrel as per the Fla Freshwater Fish and Game Commission. There is no photo of this creature to debate one way or the other so the folks from the Game Commission are our best source on that.


Color:

You say this animal or whatever it is is black as coal. I previously posted pictures such as those of the siamang which IS black as coal. This animal is not black as coal, it is black and brown and fits Schwartz's description of some island populations which are "blackish-brown." At least that's the way I am seeing the posted photos ..”.blackish-brown”, not “black as coal.”

The Myakka creature doesn't look like any known primate. The face sorta looks like an orang but then again it doesn't. The dagger-like lower canines are all wrong. The overall black coloration is wrong. It's active at night which is wrong for apes and nearly all other primates. It might not be a true taxidermy, full body figure or a guy in a suit. It could be a simple wooden frame with a head and draping fur. It looks like the right arm is extremely long and is just hanging there.

Winkler has extensively studied aging in orangs and linked aging with morphometric changes in the craniofacial anatomy. If this is an old animal what we see as "all wrong" for an orang may be normal for one that is very old. This includes snout, jaw, position of the teeth etc. An expert such as Winkler should examine this photo.

Remember also if this is an orang, then it is living in a hostile, foreign environment: there may be no appropriately branched/sized trees it can climb to build a sleeping nest, forcing it to sleep on the ground. This may be responsible for its being nocturnally active. Also its environment may not provide sufficient amounts of the right kinds of the orang's best foods. Orangs are frugivores and are known to supplement by eating insects. By being forced to sleep on the ground it is apt to be host to a variety of ectoparasites it does not normally have to deal with. As a solitary animal it also has no buddy to groom or to be groomed by which means bugs such as ticks, mites, fleas will proliferate. These in turn could cause it to be cachexic which results in emaciation and thus contributes to its abnormal appearance. So cachexia caused ectoparasitosis as well as endoparasitosis could, over time, cause this animal’s appearance to vary significantly from the way it normally might appear. I defer to any veterinarians on the list to indicate if this would or would not be possible.

We all have a picture in our minds what a normal, healthy orang should look like and probably have never seen one that is very old and/or seriously debilitated with a long term or chronic condition that affects either nocturnality/diurnality and nutrition and diet and ultimately its appearance including bone structure. That includes jaw and this would affect the appearance of the teeth.

Yeah, no kidding. This orangutan is black as coal and lurks about after dark instead of sleeping in his leaf nest. Old orangutans tend to have worn and yellowed teeth.


Clinically there are explanations that could dispel these comments. The perception regarding its color is disputable. Its nocturnality can be explained by a variety of factors mentioned above. The teeth color are not reliable enough in this photo, particularly if bathed in bright lights (e.g. Halogen) of a car to decide how yellowish they are or aren’t. They look somewhat yellowish to me.Denititonal structure can be affected by age, dietary abnormalities and physical condition over time.

Or yes, it could be the proverbial monkey suit draped over a wooden frame as you suggest, the reddish-orange eyeshine I am seeing (not yellow as someone else mentioned making me wonder if we are all looking at the same colors) added with photoshop. Humans and apes don't have true eyeshine as they don't have a tapetum lucidum. However bright light from a flash or headlight could reflect in the eye showing the reflected colors. This is what causes eyeshine in photos of people, not the true eyeshine of lower animals such as cats or raccoons.

[William Parcher]

Here is the photo that inspired the idea that the scene was illuminated by headlamps. It looks like a 'strip' of focused light...

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/793473fbf83e9111.jpg

A better version of the same photo. Now the lighting looks more uniform, or coming from a point source (camera flash). This also shows the 'stars' that allegedly were later removed by Loren Coleman...

http://www2.potsdam.edu/schneief/ICT623/skunkape/evidence1.jpg

[LTC8K6]

http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-content/Myakka_moving.gif

[LTC8K6]

WP, your second photo has been brightened, imo. The first photo is the original, imo. The "stars" are in both.

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

LTC8K6:

Is it just me, or do the leaves shown to the left of the ape's arm not match up in the pictures making up that .gif?

SteveGrenard:

I personally don't see any red eyes in that picture. At best, I see yellow with some red shading around it. However, that could be a side effect of the picturtes being "cleaned up." Others in that link I provided also note the yellow coloration. Also, did you know that the letter that supposedly came with those pictures claimed that the creature was 6-7 feet tall? I've also heard something to the effect that the spacing between the creature's eyes and nose doesn't match up with that of a typical orangutan and was wondering if you could offer any input on that.

[SteveGrenard]

Humans, apes and that includes orangs don't have true eye shine. The three most common colors reflected in the eyes are most commonly red, then yellow and then green. On the pictures I am seeing on my computer I don't see pure yellow, reddish yellow-orange perhaps. I conceded this may be an effect of tampering with the original.

Measuring or estimating the length of this animal under these circumstances would be
next to impossible for a variety of reasons. Its height from the photo is calculable from the height of the plants as someone else has pointed out and is likely to be not more than five feet.

Ditto for determining if the spatial measurements between the eyes and nose are proportionately equal to a typical orangutan. This is certainly not a typical orang. It seem to be old, sick and emaciated. If you examine the head shape carefully it is typical of the domed shape of orangs. I pointed out that the craniofacial anatomy of orangs (and all primates + people) change or distort with age (and certainly with debilitating disease, stress or starvation) according to Linda Winkler and suggested that she and her colleague Jeffrey H. Schwartz, both of Univ of Pittsburgh, examine this photo to determine its authenticity or not. I frankly don't think any of us, including me, are expert enough to make such a determination although obviously we have been trying. I have heard outright spin that this animal is coal black when it is not. I have heard spin that its color is, in fact, wrong for orangs which are maroon, red or orange which is also not true for at least one variety found on particular islands which have been documented as blackish-brown. Two different people (me and you) look at the eyes and one sees red-orange and the other sees yellow. Maybe I have developed yellow-red color blindness since last week but I doubt it. I have heard that this animal should not be nocturnal with no recognition that it is is existing on a hostile, stressful terrain bereft of its normal foods and secure sleep accomodations. Orangs are the only primate that sleeps virtually near the top of the canopy, extremely high up and secure from most threats of attack or predation and this arrangement may not be available in the area of Florida it may've found itself. It is not surprising, therefore, it would reverse its pattern and remain alert at night.

I really have nothing extra or more to contribute but thanks for letting me play devil's advocate and point out some of possible medical and environmental reasons this animal might look and appear as it does if it is an animal.

[William Parcher]

Its height from the photo is calculable from the height of the plants as someone else has pointed out and is likely to be not more than five feet.

Check on the height of saw palmetto.

I have heard outright spin that this animal is coal black when it is not. I have heard spin that its color is, in fact, wrong for orangs which are maroon, red or orange which is also not true for at least one variety found on particular islands which have been documented as blackish-brown.

I heard outright spin that this animal is blackish brown.

I have heard that this animal should not be nocturnal with no recognition that it is is existing on a hostile, stressful terrain bereft of its normal foods and secure sleep accomodations. Orangs are the only primate that sleeps virtually near the top of the canopy, extremely high up and secure from most threats of attack or predation and this arrangement may not be available in the area of Florida it may've found itself. It is not surprising, therefore, it would reverse its pattern and remain alert at night.

The nocturnal lifestyle conversion is all wrong. Apes forage for food using eyesight. An orang's night vision is going to be so sucky that it can't find enough food to maintain itself. When this orang tries to walk around, its head is only going to be 3-5 feet above the ground. If it walks through tall grasses and such, it can't even see more than a few feet in front of its face.

Not only do you want me to think this photo shows an unusually dark feral orangutan.... you also want to to think that this animal has adapted to being nocturnal because of the local environmental situation around Myakka, Florida. I won't take either of those two baits.

[SteveGrenard]

On the matter of what an orang might eat at night, with respect to this particular photo, I offer the following liklihood: Moonlight and familiarity with this particular territory and food source may've been guiding this creature.


Saw palmettos are certainly a conspicuous part of the landscape in some natural communities, and are a significant source of food and shelter for several wildlife species. Indiscriminate harvesting of saw palmetto fruits could adversely affect some wildlife species, especially when market prices for saw palmetto berries are high, wildlife population levels are low, and/or saw palmetto berries are an essential food source for a species.

http://wfrec.ufl.edu/range/sawpalm/research.html

With reference to estimating height, the larger "appearing" Saw Palmettos in this picture are in the foreground and we do not know whether they are adult plants (2 meters) or younger,
shorter plants. I merely referred to another poster who perhaps is more familiar with estimating height from these particular plants but frankly I don't see anyway of doing that without more data from the site of the photo. One person said that the plants give an estimate of 3 to 5 feet for the creature, and now I hear someone else claims it was 7 feet tall which, of course, precludes it from being an orang. I am dubious and skeptical about these height estimations.

I am not however dubious about the existence of blackish-brown colored orangs and have
provided a textbook reference to this above. If you can't find it I would be happy to repost.

[LTC8K6]

It's the foliage at the mouth that stands out as fake to me.

Why did she take a picture of nothing? If she wanted to see what was making the noises, why not take a flashlight? Why point a camera where you can't see anything and take a picture?

"She went out into her backyard after deep "woomp" noises were heard. She aimed her camera at the hedge row at the back of her property, and was startled to see what her flash revealed."

"I didn't even see it as I took the first picture because it was so dark. As soon as the flash went off for the second time it stood up and started to move, I then heard the orangutan walk off into the woods"

Apparently her husband also thought it was an orangutan. Why not call the police right away if you think an orangutan is loose in your neighborhood? Why wait and then send a cryptic letter?

[SteveGrenard]

It's the foliage at the mouth that stands out as fake to me.

I am not arguing with you but in what way does it appear to be fake to you?


Why did she take a picture of nothing? If she wanted to see what was making the noises, why not take a flashlight? Why point a camera where you can't see anything and take a picture?

If she heard a ruckus then she went out in expectation of finding something, not, er, nothing. And perhaps her camera and flash were handy and she didn't have a flashlight or her batteries were dead so she thought she'd use the flash to illuminate the area.


Apparently her husband also thought it was an orangutan. Why not call the police right away if you think an orangutan is loose in your neighborhood? Why wait and then send a cryptic letter?

There are lots of reasons people don't want to call the police. I'll limit speculation to her worry that they might come and shoot it. And they probably would ... like the two cops
in the midwest who tried to shoot a snake in a bird house and ended up killing a kid whom they couldn't see on a nearby lake shore fishing pier.

I see the first picture (here) of the creature was cropped and doesn't show the surrounding Saw Palmetto to its right. I notice down within this additional foliage a few round red structures that look like berries which very well could indicate the animal was foraging for these or other berries (since the plant was fruited) when he was surprised by the flash.

Are the wider pictures the genuine ones? Who cropped this and why?

ETA: The leaf which goes across the front of the face partially obscuring the mouth and jaw appears to be a branch that is bent or slightly broken off the main plant ...at least that's what I see so it might have been naturally present and, in fact, caused by the animal prior to its being
illuminated by the light.

[William Parcher]

From Wikipedia on Saw Palmetto... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saw_palmetto)

It is a small palm, normally reaching a height of around 2-4 m.

The leaves are 1-2 m in length, the leaflets 50-100 cm long.

On the matter of what an orang might eat at night, with respect to this particular photo, I offer the following liklihood: Moonlight and familiarity with this particular territory and food source may've been guiding this creature.

Primate color vision is compromised by darkness. The best features of primate vision are mostly lost at night. The poor beast's eyes are so low-to-the-ground as it walks around (already a difficulty for orang feet) that it is forced to plow through vegetation unable to see more than a few feet in front of itself. What a ridiculous lifestyle change you are proposing for this "orangutan". It switches to a nocturnal and terrestrial regime. It switches to finding food on or near the ground. It finds ways to avoid alligators, rattlesnakes, feral dogs, etc.

It has somehow kept its fur in a condition that suggests grooming. The very long shag is flowing beautifully and not showing matting or tangles. The partially visible right hand does not look like the hand of an orangutan.

I believe that the hoaxer was intending this to look like a skunk ape, not an orangutan. I think the face of an orang was inspiration for the hoaxed face, but not meant to be a match. The hoaxed letter from granny was intended to convey honesty with a heap of naivity. She says it's an orang because you don't want to make it sound like she already knows about skunk apes. She is portayed as being clueless that she "actually" photographed a skunk ape. The best that granny can come up with is orangutan. But the original intent of the hoaxer was to turn the photos over to Bigfooters/Skunk Apers and let them deliberate. These folks have sorta settled on three possibilities:

1) A typical Myakka skunk ape.
2) An unusual feral orangutan.
3) A hoax.

Some might entertain the idea that "skunk apes" are actually feral orangutans.

I am not however dubious about the existence of blackish-brown colored orangs and have provided a textbook reference to this above. If you can't find it I would be happy to repost.

I read it. It would be great if we could see photos of these blackish-brown orangs. There are thousands of orangutan photos on the web. I can't find any yet (I saw about 500 images) that look anything like the Myakka thing. It would be nice to be able to compare color and facial appearances of these "dark orangs" and the two granny photos.

[LTC8K6]

I am not arguing with you but in what way does it appear to be fake to you?

It looks fake. Particularly in the animated gif. It looks pasted on.

I have major problems with the left edge of the creature as well. Looks funny.

I have major problems with the lighting, which does not match the weak flash of a typical home camera, but really looks like vehicle headlights.

BTW, vehicle headlights are what I'd use to see what was making the noises. I am safe in my car.

I have problems with her getting a second shot. The creature should have been gone at her approach, and certainly gone after the first flash went off. Flash recharge takes time as well for home cameras.

Read the letter. She says she is concerned that the creature will harm the children. Afraid it will cause an accident. Yet she waits forever to say anything to any authorities. She could have called animal control instead of the police. She waited two months.

http://www.lorencoleman.com/letter.html

She called her hedge row, a hedge roll...when in fact, it's some saw palmetto, not a hedge at all.

She says she hit a deer with her car and totalled her car. A deer that wasn't even 1/4 the size of the "orangutan". Well, the "orangutan" doesn't appear to be 4X as large as a deer.

She claims the creature was sitting in the first shot. It isn't sitting at all, imo.

She claims she was only 10 feet away from it. Doesn't look like it at all. She got within 10feet and it didn't move? She fired a flash at it from 10 feet and it didn't run away?

She complains that no one has been told the "orangutan" is loose, yet she herself said nothing for 2 months.

[LTC8K6]

She says the pictures were taken on the third night of apple raiding by the "orangutan". So she already knew there was something in her back yard making "whoops" and stealing apples.

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Ditto for determining if the spatial measurements between the eyes and nose are proportionately equal to a typical orangutan.

I've gotta agree with you there. Those damn leaves obscure too many details and the "nostrils" could just be shadows. The hand seen in the picture suffers from similar problems that keep it from being compared to an orangutan's hand.

This is certainly not a typical orang. It seem to be old, sick and emaciated. If you examine the head shape carefully it is typical of the domed shape of orangs.[QUOTE]

Couldn't a model or mask based off an orangutan have such features?

[QUOTE]I have heard that this animal should not be nocturnal with no recognition that it is is existing on a hostile, stressful terrain bereft of its normal foods and secure sleep accomodations

This would assume that the pictures were actually taken by an old woman in her backyard. However, the letter's claim that the animal was 6-7 feet tall would rule out an orangutan. If it wasn't for the pictures, I would allow some leeway for fear/surprised-based misestimation. However, I'd imagine that a person would have realized that their estimate wasn't right after reviewing the pictures and realizing that the creature wasn't much taller than the palmettos in her backyard.

I am not arguing with you but in what way does it appear to be fake to you?

I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I think that it looks fakes since it seems stuck to the upper lip no visible means of support and has no bite marks on it (which would rule out the idea that it was chewing on it).

There are lots of reasons people don't want to call the police. I'll limit speculation to her worry that they might come and shoot it. And they probably would ... like the two cops in the midwest who tried to shoot a snake in a bird house and ended up killing a kid whom they couldn't see on a nearby lake shore fishing pier.

If she was worried about the cops shooting it, why would she contact them about it through the mail? I suspect that if these pictures were actually sent to the police, they were sent there in the hopes that they could be "discovered" later (not unlike what happened with the Cardiff Giant).

[QUOTE]Are the wider pictures the genuine ones? Who cropped this and why?[QUOTE]

The wider pictures are the originals. They were cropped by David Barkasy or Loren Coleman, either to focus more on the ape or possibly to make the subject of the picture seem larger and more unlike a typical ape.

[LTC8K6]

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=23324

http://www.cryptomundo.com/wp-content/Myakka_moving.gif

Notice how the mouth and the leaves stuck to it do not actually change position.
This is a mask with leaves stuck to it.

[Creekfreak]

All great points but the fact is there are primates liveing in the wilds of Fla .
Being here naturaly or released they are here no one can deny it if they do then they are fools .

[LTC8K6]

I'm sure there are homeless people all over Florida.

[Elmer]

Looks a bit like "cousin It" from the old Addams Family series. If I were a betting man I'd say this is no BF.

[William Parcher]

Have they caught that 50 pound red ape in Florida yet? Orangs aren't known for being nomadic so it's probably still in the vicinity.

[Maldon]

Its also OK, I think, to keep the "who knows, maybe" approach and check it sometimes to see if something more reliable shows up. But investing time debating there seems pointless for me.

Wise words, sir.;)
I have a similar approach to these sites.