reading posts here (hear my Wasser)

[Nie Trink Wasser]

as time goes on I've noticed that most people posting here are of the same political persuasion. Usually a thread is posted and within it there is a support group of people from the same political diaper who offer no other perspective to the stories.

how can this be a positive environment for honest political discussion ?

Rikzilla, Corplix, Kodiak, and Randfan are hardly here anymore and Im begining to think it's due to the rapid decay of the forum.

what do you think ?

[hgc]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser
as time goes on I've noticed that most people posting here are of the same political persuasion. Usually a thread is posted and within it there is a support group of people from the same political diaper who offer no other perspective to the stories.

how can this be a positive environment for honest political discussion ?

Rikzilla, Corplix, Kodiak, and Randfan are hardly here anymore and Im begining to think it's due to the rapid decay of the forum.

what do you think ? You lost me at "diaper." Tell me more about honest political discussion.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser
as time goes on I've noticed that most people posting here are of the same political persuasion. Usually a thread is posted and within it there is a support group of people from the same political diaper who offer no other perspective to the stories.

how can this be a positive environment for honest political discussion ?

Rikzilla, Corplix, Kodiak, and Randfan are hardly here anymore and Im begining to think it's due to the rapid decay of the forum.

what do you think ?

I think it's more likely that they are smart enough to realize that the foundations of their political beliefs have been utterly and completely destroyed by the devastating logic employed by those on the Left.

Just kidding. ;)

I miss RandFan, Rik somewhat less so.

I enjoy debating with fair minded conservatives. That means that they are genuinely open to examining all sides of a question. Far too few of those here.

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by hgc
You lost me at "diaper." Tell me more about honest political discussion.

Isn't it obvious? If you agree with Nie you are having an honest political discussion, otherwise you are a liberal troll who could barely be considered human (regardless if you are liberal or not).

[jj]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser
as time goes on I've noticed that most people posting here are of the same political persuasion. Usually a thread is posted and within it there is a support group of people from the same political diaper who offer no other perspective to the stories.

how can this be a positive environment for honest political discussion ?

Rikzilla, Corplix, Kodiak, and Randfan are hardly here anymore and Im begining to think it's due to the rapid decay of the forum.

what do you think ?

jj liberal?
Not in this or your lifetime!
Analytic, yes.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Sundog


I think it's more likely that they are smart enough to realize that the foundations of their political beliefs have been utterly and completely destroyed by the devastating logic employed by those on the Left.

Just kidding. ;)

I miss RandFan, Rik somewhat less so.

I enjoy debating with fair minded conservatives. That means that they are genuinely open to examining all sides of a question. Far too few of those here.

my guess is that the conservatives are getting tired of the waves of constant nonsense, because it seems the 90% of the forum is on the left.

If one disciplines themselves to see things as best they can from a centrist perspective, while willing to admit they conservative, doing that is somehow grounds for blackballing them since there are so many on the left here.

I used to like coming here because there was a broad range of perspective, but if there is only going to be one, what is educational about that ?

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Grammatron


Isn't it obvious? If you agree with Nie you are having an honest political discussion, otherwise you are a liberal troll who could barely be considered human (regardless if you are liberal or not).


that's sad.

this is exactly the attitude Im talking about. Since Im willing to admit that Im conservative, immediately I must be a fascist.

its ridiculous and trite, but it just keeps on going when discussion could be happening instead.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser


my guess is that the conservatives are getting tired of the waves of constant nonsense, because it seems the 90% of the forum is on the left.

If one disciplines themselves to see things as best they can from a centrist perspective, while willing to admit they conservative, doing that is somehow grounds for blackballing them since there are so many on the left here.

I used to like coming here because there was a broad range of perspective, but if there is only going to be one, what is educational about that ?

You're right. There are left wing zealots here of course. But they are just the counterpart of those on the right.

I wouldn't consider your perspective as centrist; I think jj is a better example. Centrist implies that sometimes you decide the left is correct.

IMHO the reaction to you has nothing to do with your politics. Who attacks corplinx in this way? Or Kodiak? I think much of what people object to is the way you express yourself at times. Just my two cents.

[Nyarlathotep]

I haven't noticed a preponderance of one side or the other on political debates on this forum. What I have noticed, not only on this forum but everywhere, is a continuing demonization by both sides of the other. Neither side seems able to accept that people on the other side might merely have a different opinion on political subjects, instead they have to paint hte other as some sort of evil force who is out to destroy everything this country stands for. If reading this forum doesn't persuade youof that fact, then a quick trip to the bookstore to see the most recent works of Anne Coulter and Al Franken ought to convince you. The titles of their books alone make my point.

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser



that's sad.

this is exactly the attitude Im talking about. Since Im willing to admit that Im conservative, immediately I must be a fascist.

its ridiculous and trite, but it just keeps on going when discussion could be happening instead.

This could very well be my last non-haiku post in reponse to you.

Every time I have tried to engage you in debate you have reacted in an insulting aggressive manner. You tell me to take my meds, question my reading comprehension, and so on.

Don't tell me it is me and not you. I've had discussions with two of the people above (Randfan and Rikzilla) and they have gone so far as to explicitly note that I approach things quite evenhandedly, in a fair and reasonable manner.

The fact that you are now starting a thread about other people's incivility seems to indicate one of two things. Either you don't recognize how you are acting towards others, or you are a deliberate troll. I don't know which. I am curious.

Insults are the desperate acts of those who lack the capacity to debate. Everytime you use them you are taken less seriously by those who enjoy serious discussion, regardless of political bent.

Do you truly not see the irony in your use of the word "diaper" in your first post? Why do you feel the need to label and degrade? Why, when you preach personal responsibility do you fail to even consider that perhaps the reason others react as they do to you is a result of your actions?

[American]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
If reading this forum doesn't persuade youof that fact, then a quick trip to the bookstore to see the most recent works of Anne Coulter and Al Franken ought to convince you. The titles of their books alone make my point.

I found someone meaner and all-around more correct than either of them (or anyone for that matter).

http://images.pravda.ru/img/2002/11/Savage11.jpg

[jj]

Originally posted by Suddenly

Do you truly not see the irony in your use of the word "diaper" in your first post? Why do you feel the need to label and degrade? Why, when you preach personal responsibility do you fail to even consider that perhaps the reason others react as they do to you is a result of your actions?

It's a step along the "big lie" path, Suddenly.

First you deliberately polarize everyone into "friend" and "enemy". Then, picking the most extreme of "enemy" you tar the lot of them with the extremes of the few. Then, when people have gotten so tired that they accept your grouping, you start to routinely make denigrating claims like his "diaper" claim.

It's a classic method. You can read about it in many places, mostly in the books written by people who successfully became dictators.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by American


I found someone meaner and all-around more correct than either of them (or anyone for that matter).

http://images.pravda.ru/img/2002/11/Savage11.jpg

I can't make any comment on Micheal Savage because I only know of him second hand. I haven't read anything he has written nor have I ever heard his radio show (so far as I know, they don't even play it in my neck of the woods).

[Victor Danilchenko]

Much better Savage is the famous Dan Savage, of the 'Savage Love' fame. See http://www.thestranger.com/archive/savage.html , and worship Dan...

[corplinx]

Sorry, I got a new job at a small 80 person corporation as their "unix guru-linux wizard-NT pimpslapper-cisco monkey". I still post when I get a chance but I am much busier than I was as a consultant who primarily worked from home.

[wollery]

NTW, like (I hope) most people on this forum I come here to exchange views and opinions with other people from different parts of the world with different cultural backgrounds and different political viewpoints. One of the wonderful things about internet forums is that you can't see what the other people look like, your only frame of reference is their writing and their opinions.

I don't care what political ideals people hold, all I ask is that they give me a fair hearing and explain their own thinking in return. It may well be that we hold very different opinions and will never change each others minds, but as long as the debate is civil, logical and based in fact I have no problem, we'll just agree to differ.

I would love to have just such a debate with you, but sadly I fear that that is impossible. Your approach to debate seems to be to push forward someone elses opinion, with no commentary or explanation of your own, and then insult and vilify anyone who tries to make a counter-argument, without ever actually making a reasoned defense of the original article.
On several occasions I have posted to threads that you started, making a point or asking for you to clarify something, only to be met either with insults or stoney silence.

When posting please offer your opinions, explain what you think is interesting about the articles you post, try to avoid insulting people, and argue a case. As has been said already, if people don't get what you're on about explain it.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by American


I found someone [Michael Savage] meaner and all-around more correct than either of them (or anyone for that matter).Meaner, I'll grant you.

"Michael Savage" is the hate-mongering shock jock persona of Michael Weiner. Weiner has a doctorate in nutrition and has written several books on the subject before adopting the "Savage" character. Interestingly, Weiner is (or was) an advocate of alternative medicine and "natural remedies".

Whether Weiner is "more correct" or not is a matter of opinion, literally. If you listen to his radio show (I never saw the short lived TV show), most of what he presents are opinions without ever really justifying why the opinions are true. In other words, Weiner's "Savage Nation" is meant to be entertainment. The only way he is "correct" is if you agree with his character's opinions. The only way he is "incorrect" is if you disagree with his character's opinions.

As for what Weiner himself believes, I have no idea. I've read some earlier works of his that sound like they came from a completely different person.

[chulbert]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser how can this be a positive environment for honest political discussion?

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser my guess is that the conservatives are getting tired of the waves of constant nonsense

You might start an "honest political discussion" by first not referring to opposing positions as "constant nonsense."

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by corplinx
Sorry, I got a new job at a small 80 person corporation as their "unix guru-linux wizard-NT pimpslapper-cisco monkey". I still post when I get a chance but I am much busier than I was as a consultant who primarily worked from home.

Damn, we could use a good "unix guru-linux wizard-NT pimpslapper-cisco monkey" where I work.

[LucyR]

Originally posted by jj


jj liberal?
Not in this or your lifetime!
Analytic, yes.

Perhaps even analytical.

[corplinx]

Originally posted by LucyR


Perhaps even analytical.

nah, jj is just a leftist in denial, i think he hates the whole being labeled thing or something so pretends to be some sort of centrist type

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by LucyR


Perhaps even analytical.

Don't jive on the man's poetic license. He paid for the renewal.

[LucyR]

Originally posted by corplinx


nah, jj is just a leftist in denial, i think he hates the whole being labeled thing or something so pretends to be some sort of centrist type

Yeah, he's a self deluding simpleton.

I say ban him!

[LucyR]

Originally posted by Suddenly


Don't jive on the man's poetic license. He paid for the renewal.

:D

[Cain]

How appropriate it is for NTW to begin a thread on honest political discussion. Maybe later we can all attend a grammar workshop held by George W. Bush.

With the absence of the posters you mention, the proportion of threads and perspectives on various topics probably more accurately represents the JREF membership as a whole. There's the whole nagging problem of how a persistent poster can pull a discussion in one direction (think JK).

I for one do not miss RF squawking about his "objectivity" and constantly, unendingly, reminding us how "indepedent" he is.

If only Shanek could limit himself to two or three well-thought out posts per day instead of a barrage of the tendentious nonsense that gets scrawled on these boards by the hour.

Or American's characteristically fatuous observations and comments. Michael Savage?

P.S. Maybe -- just maybe -- one of the factors for why those members no longer post is because -- sh*t, I dunno -- the Bush administration has fallen on hard times. Lowest approval ratings since pre-9/11. Christ, two days after the invasion they couldn't post bullsh*t fast enough. Times change and these things are cyclical.

____________________________

The left-wing zealotry on this board runs deep. I mean, we have people here, for instance, alleging that Israel has "stolen land". Some people even use the word "liar" to describe Bush (oh my!). And don't get me started on all the posts urging workers of the world to unite. The anarchist contingent is especially ferverent; rarely a week goes by without the thirty page "Smash the State" thread drawing signficant traffic.

Archives of a real left-wing mailing list: http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/pen-l/2003w36/thread.htm

[jj]

Originally posted by Suddenly


Don't jive on the man's poetic license. He paid for the renewal.

I what?

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Cain

P.S. Maybe -- just maybe -- one of the factors for why those members no longer post is because -- sh*t, I dunno -- the Bush administration has fallen on hard times. Lowest approval ratings since pre-9/11. Christ, two days after the invasion they couldn't post bullsh*t fast enough. Times change and these things are cyclical.


Or maybe us capitalists are just busy these days :D. The bad economy hasn't slowed me down a bit, and I live in a state decimated by the Democrats -> California.

BTW, how many times can you debate "There are no WMD's"?
OK fine, we haven't gotten the country stabilized yet and haven't even been there a year yet, but there's no WMD's. I don't care , and I'm still voting for Bush.

I know, let's get the U.N. in Iraq to run things, that way it should only take about 50 years to get the country stabilized.

Tax the rich and feed the poor, 'til there are no rich no more.

How's that for right-wing posting?

[jj]

Originally posted by corplinx


nah, jj is just a leftist in denial, i think he hates the whole being labeled thing or something so pretends to be some sort of centrist type

Corplinx, dishonor
The two words are like brothers
Right wing brothers, too.

Corplinx, you explain
I support military
I reject the Shrub

[shemp]

Poor Ich Trink Urine
Conspiracies surround him
He likes to believe

[Cain]

Or maybe us capitalists are just busy these days . The bad economy hasn't slowed me down a bit, and I live in a state decimated by the Democrats -> California.

BTW, how many times can you debate "There are no WMD's"?
OK fine, we haven't gotten the country stabilized yet and haven't even been there a year yet, but there's no WMD's. I don't care , and I'm still voting for Bush.

I know, let's get the U.N. in Iraq to run things, that way it should only take about 50 years to get the country stabilized.

Tax the rich and feed the poor, 'til there are no rich no more.

How's that for right-wing postin

You're rambling, so I guess it's stereotypical stuff. Anyway, the Bush administration has fallen on rough times, unable to completely control the national discussion as it could in the recent past.

[JamesM]

Well, JK's back now.

[KelvinG]

Originally posted by JamesM
Well, JK's back now.

Yes he is.
Now I will have to waste precious moments putting him back on my ignore list.
He disappeared from the list when he had his mental meltdown and ran from this forum like a scared little girl.

[Upchurch]

Jedi Knight is back
Nie Trink Wasser isn't alone
who will be teaching?

[shemp]

NTW isn't fit to lick JK's boots.

[Tricky]

NTW is not nearly as entertaining as Jedi Knight. No way they are the same person.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Cain
How appropriate it is for NTW to begin a thread on honest political discussion. Maybe later we can all attend a grammar workshop held by George W. Bush.

With the absence of the posters you mention, the proportion of threads and perspectives on various topics probably more accurately represents the JREF membership as a whole. There's the whole nagging problem of how a persistent poster can pull a discussion in one direction (think JK).

I for one do not miss RF squawking about his "objectivity" and constantly, unendingly, reminding us how "indepedent" he is.

If only Shanek could limit himself to two or three well-thought out posts per day instead of a barrage of the tendentious nonsense that gets scrawled on these boards by the hour.

Or American's characteristically fatuous observations and comments. Michael Savage?

P.S. Maybe -- just maybe -- one of the factors for why those members no longer post is because -- sh*t, I dunno -- the Bush administration has fallen on hard times. Lowest approval ratings since pre-9/11. Christ, two days after the invasion they couldn't post bullsh*t fast enough. Times change and these things are cyclical.

____________________________

The left-wing zealotry on this board runs deep. I mean, we have people here, for instance, alleging that Israel has "stolen land". Some people even use the word "liar" to describe Bush (oh my!). And don't get me started on all the posts urging workers of the world to unite. The anarchist contingent is especially ferverent; rarely a week goes by without the thirty page "Smash the State" thread drawing signficant traffic.

Archives of a real left-wing mailing list: http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/pen-l/2003w36/thread.htm


Oh I ramble! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jj]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Jedi Knight is back
Nie Trink Wasser isn't alone
who will be teaching?

Grass will be greener.
Fertilizer spread about
Famine averted!