Vaccination Conspiracy Theories

[T.A.M.]

I am setting up this page for Malmoesoldier, and anyone else who would like to post, to present SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE (not opinion or anecdotes) that present day vaccinations cause autism, MS, or any other significant neurological disorders.

As a prelude, I will state that I have no problem with the suggestion that vaccines, just like any foreign body/food/drug can kill people through anaphylaxis. This is not the focus of the Conspiracy theory, so please do not derail the thread with such.

Proof of death from a vaccine will require the following. (1) Report of a death, (2) A coroner's report or pathologists report/conclusions that the person died from mercury poisoning that was proven to have come from vaccines and no other source.

TAM:)

Edit: I will give you some help. the only thing close to scientific proof that has come out, is from the father son "Geier" family, who have since been discredited. Look them up, and I am sure you can bring a few links to the party. "Google Scholar" is your best friend.

[e^n]

There was an erroneous UK study published in 1998 which alleged a link between the MMR (Measles, Mumps and Rubella) vaccines and autism (link (http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673697110960/fulltext)). This was of course later discredited and disowned by some of its authors as I understand. No since study has found any link but people still cite the original as reason for not vaccinating their children. Quite worrying.

edit: Wikipedia wins again! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy

[T.A.M.]

Yes, and since then there was an outbreak of Measles in the UK, IIRC. Very worrying indeed. Unfortunately your link requires membership. I do not subscribe to the Lancet, although I have read many reports from it (via the hard copy issue and drug reps bringing in articles).

TAM:)

[Undesired Walrus]

I unfortunatly turned out to have premature ejaculation for a few months when I was 18.

I blame the MMR vaccine.

[T.A.M.]

Some reading material:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/107/5/1147

Conclusion. Our review revealed no evidence of harm caused by doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for local hypersensitivity reactions. However, some infants may be exposed to cumulative levels of mercury during the first 6 months of life that exceed EPA recommendations. Exposure of infants to mercury in vaccines can be reduced or eliminated by using products formulated without thimerosal as a preservative. Key words: thimerosal, thiomersal, merthiolate, vaccine, immunization, mercury, methylmercury, ethylmercury, adverse event, risk assessment.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/112/3/604

Conclusions. The discontinuation of thimerosal-containing vaccines in Denmark in 1992 was followed by an increase in the incidence of autism. Our ecological data do not support a correlation between thimerosal-containing vaccines and the incidence of autism.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/290/13/1763
Conclusion The results do not support a causal relationship between childhood vaccination with thimerosal-containing vaccines and development of autistic-spectrum disorders.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/112/5/1039

Conclusions. No consistent significant associations were found between TCVs and neurodevelopmental outcomes. Conflicting results were found at different HMOs for certain outcomes. For resolving the conflicting findings, studies with uniform neurodevelopmental assessments of children with a range of cumulative thimerosal exposures are needed.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/114/3/793

Conclusions. Studies do not demonstrate a link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD, and the pharmacokinetics of ethylmercury make such an association less likely. Epidemiologic studies that support a link demonstrated significant design flaws that invalidate their conclusions. Evidence does not support a change in the standard of practice with regard to administration of thimerosal-containing vaccines in areas of the world where they are used.

These are from the FIRST PAGE of a search on GOOGLE SCHOLAR.

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

I unfortunatly turned out to have premature ejaculation for a few months when I was 18.

I blame the MMR vaccine.

I had a migraine 2 weeks ago...I blame the MMR vaccine.

TAM;)

[Hyperviolet]

TAM, give it up. Alex Jones has already exposed it.
You obviously don't know that it's admitted.


ZmaR3Qmo1Ww

[T.A.M.]

lol...well if Alex Jones says it is so, how can I argue.

TAM;)

[T.A.M.]

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/114/3/584

Conclusions. With the possible exception of tics, there was no evidence that thimerosal exposure via DTP/DT vaccines causes neurodevelopmental disorders.

Here is a good article about the "big deal".
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/109/6/1153

Here is the "big" study that no doubt the CTists will bring up...

http://journals.indexcopernicus.com/fulltxt.php?ICID=15878

TAM:)

[e^n]

I may be slightly autistic (It's been mentioned before and I was tested as a child) and I was also immunised with MMR I think.

There we go, conclusive proof.

[Hyperviolet]

lol...well if Alex Jones says it is so, how can I argue.

TAM;)

You can't argue, but you can subscribe....


by calling TOLL FREE 888 253 3139
or by joining prisonplanet.tv today

[JimBenArm]

I do hope I didn't scare Mr. Soldier off on that other thread. I was so mean to him, disagreeing with him and refusing to believe that vaccines bad.

Come back! We can still be friends, even if I do laugh at you behind your back!

[kevingreenlee]

The various vaccination conspiracy theories seem to me to be far more harmful than the 9/11 business. Anything that discourages mass vaccinations, of course, runs the risk of increasing preventable illness and death but that's just the beginning. If you're misinformed about the cause of a condition you are also misinformed about how to treat it.
Parents who believe their child's autism is caused by thimerosol therefore "treat" the condition in a variety of invasive, dangerous and utterly useless ways- I am thinking about things like "testerone regulation" via injections of lupron and chelation (which has already killed at least one autistic child). It is bad enough when credulous adults pay for these sorts of quack "treatments" for themselves but it is quite a bit worse when these procedures are done on autistic children who don't have the power or ability to protect themselves from such harmful foolishness.

[Undesired Walrus]

This is most likely the most dangerous conspiracy theory. But I don't imagine many truthers getting into a stable relationship in the near future, so it is all good.

[Hyperviolet]

This is most likely the most dangerous conspiracy theory.


I agree, wholeheartedly.

These types of theories spread by layman like Alex Jones, who wield great influence, is something that really angers me.

[T.A.M.]

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/ccdr-rmtc/02vol28/dr2809ea.html

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/111/3/674

Thimerosal is being eliminated from the vaccines used in routine infant immunization programs in the United States and Canada. If thimerosal was an important cause of autism, the incidence of autism might soon begin to decline. One can hope but not expect that that will happen; time will tell.

Mercury poisoning and autism both affect the central nervous system but the specific sites of involvement in brain and the brain cell types affected are different in the two disorders as evidenced clinically and by neuropathology. Mercury also injures the peripheral nervous system and other organs that are not affected in autism. Nonspecific symptoms such as anxiety, depression, and irrational fears may occur both in mercury poisoning and in children with autism, but overall the clinical picture of mercurism—from any known form, dose, duration, or age of exposure—does not mimic that of autism. No case history has been encountered in which the differential diagnosis of these 2 disorders was a problem. Most important, no evidence yet brought forward indicates that children exposed to vaccines containing mercurials, or mercurials via any other route of exposure, have more autism than children with less or no such exposure.

Continuing vigilance is necessary regarding the safety of vaccines, as is open-minded evaluation of new evidence. However, such evidence must be of sufficient scientific rigor to provide a responsible basis for decisions that influence the safety of children. When information is incomplete, as it is at present for thimerosal-autism questions, a balancing must be made of risks posed by vaccine constituents and the benefits of disease prevention achieved by keeping immunizations widely available. On the basis of current evidence, we consider it improbable that thimerosal and autism are linked.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/112/6/1394

Vaccines often contain preservatives, adjuvants, additives, or manufacturing residuals in addition to pathogen-specific immunogens. Some parents, alerted by stories in the news media or information contained on the World Wide Web, are concerned that some of the substances contained in vaccines might harm their children. We reviewed data on thimerosal, aluminum, gelatin, human serum albumin, formaldehyde, antibiotics, egg proteins, and yeast proteins. Both gelatin and egg proteins are contained in vaccines in quantities sufficient to induce rare instances of severe, immediate-type hypersensitivity reactions. However, quantities of mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, human serum albumin, antibiotics, and yeast proteins in vaccines have not been found to be harmful in humans or experimental animals.

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

You'll have to pay or register to read this one, but...
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0140673601063127

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TD4-4B5X7RT-6&_user=10&_coverDate=05%2F07%2F2004&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=ce27b21564387c94a7f60736c02ddcad

Abstract

While a number of studies remain to be completed, evidence is mounting that there is no demonstrable risk for infants immunized with vaccines containing thiomersal. Epidemiological studies in the US have shown no developmental or other central nervous system abnormalities resulting from exposure to vaccines containing thiomersal. During the initial evaluation of thiomersal in vaccines during 1999, the toxicological profile of ethyl mercury was unknown and presumed to be the same as that of methyl mercury. Enough evidence has accumulated since then to indicate the profiles of the two compounds are different in crucial aspects. To date, one study has measured blood levels of total mercury in vaccinated infants and reports only a brief low-level exposure with rapid excretion of mercury. It is not yet known for sure how much (if any) vaccine-derived ethyl mercury in the blood crosses the blood–brain barrier.

For the most part, the use of thiomersal as a vaccine preservative has been convincingly shown to be safe. The scientific evidence is not yet sufficiently strong to provide the same level of assurance for thiomersal-containing vaccines for use in pregnant women or the premature or low birth weight infant. There is an increased sensitivity of the fetal brain to mercury whether it is ethyl or methyl mercury. While there is no evidence to support the contention, it is at least theoretically possible that very low birth weight premature infants may be at increased risk from thiomersal-containing vaccines. Until such time as the scientific evidence is to hand, thiomersal-free presentations of hepatitis B are to be preferred for the birth dose.

Given the same levels of exposure, adults are at much lower levels of risk because of increased body mass. It is not possible to prove that thiomersal is completely safe-epidemiology can only quantify a risk, not prove its absence.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/114/3/577

TITLE:Thimerosal Exposure in Infants and Developmental Disorders: A Prospective Cohort Study in the United Kingdom Does Not Support a Causal Association

Conclusions. We could find no convincing evidence that early exposure to thimerosal had any deleterious effect on neurologic or psychological outcome.

TAM:)

[Undesired Walrus]

These types of theories spread by layman like Alex Jones, who wield great influence, is something that really angers me.

Me too. It's one thing to spread his inside job theories, another to teach people to distrust hard working, dedicated doctors working under the best of western medicine, just to inflate your own self-importance.

[e^n]

Me too. It's one thing to spread his inside job theories, another to teach people to distrust hard working, dedicated doctors working under the best of western medicine, just to inflate your own self-importance.

We should always be careful when implying bad intentions to conspiracy theorists. I honestly think that most of them truly believe in what they're preaching. It's more a question of why they believe it, rather than what they're trying to accomplish. At least in my eyes.

[Buffalodavid]

We just got our shots at work (I knew there was some reason I worked there) and I've been asking around to see who got their shots and why not. An interesting result from my admittedly non scientific poll showed that no one I talked to seemed to know anything about the conspiracy theories. At least, they didn't admit it to me.

But most just brought up the old chestnut about how it makes them sick. Gives them the flu they say. Most people have never had the flu. They get a bad cold and self diagnose influenza.

Also, how they get a disease from a an inactivated vaccine (containing killed virus) is never explained. I chalk this up to most people's misunderstanding of how the shots work.

I'm really worried though about the guy I talked to yesterday who told me his feet swell during the full moon

[Kiosk]

We should always be careful when implying bad intentions to conspiracy theorists. I honestly think that most of them truly believe in what they're preaching. It's more a question of why they believe it, rather than what they're trying to accomplish. At least in my eyes.

Well, this is why I wince when people accuse 9/11 CTers of "insulting the victims". There are obvious examples where that could be said to be true - Loose Change's "voice morphing technology" idiocy springs to mind, as do a few quotes from Avery - but most rank-and-file twoofers honestly think that 9/11 was an inside job, albeit because they're too stupid to know better, and they consider themselves to be avenging it. I don't know if Alex Jones or Avery really believe this or not, but I'm positive most of the kids do. If you honestly believed that the US government had slaughtered thousands of its own citizens in that way, you would want to spread the word, right? You certainly wouldn't think of yourself as insulting the victims.

The vaccination thing is different, though - someone like Alex Jones might disrespect the dead of 9/11 through his rampaging stupidity, but helping to endanger children's lives is something else. Vaccine nuts themselves are obviously sincere and ignorant, as they're putting their own children in danger and encouraging others to do the same - but someone must surely have shown Jones the real evidence at some point. Maybe not - he probably lives in something of a bubble. Still, the consequences of this are so great, and there's so little "smoking gun" evidence even for morons to latch onto, anyone with a heart really would stop and check themselves before they indulged their latest anti-everything fantasy. Twoofer frenzy can blind young eyes to obvious facts, but being an anti-vaccination fool has no particular kudos. You can't laugh it off as a bunch of dumb kids following a bunch of deluded maniacs out of a need to belong. Anyone spreading this stuff is actually dangerous, and they can't be getting much out of it emotionally or psychologically.

[jhunter1163]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21839294/

Maybe this is what got him going.. requiring vaccinations or else you go to jail.

[T.A.M.]

Also, how they get a disease from a an inactivated vaccine (containing killed virus) is never explained. I chalk this up to most people's misunderstanding of how the shots work.


It is a very common side effect of the vaccine. It is not "the flu" that they get. It is a flu like syndrome/illness that they get for about 1-2 days as a result of the bodies immune response to the vaccine (a foreign body). Tylenol every 4-6 hours while it occurs is the best medicine. It is, in actual fact, a very obvious sign that the body is responding to the vaccine, and producing the antibodies that are required for the vaccine to be considered effective.

TAM:)

[leftysergeant]

Real quick question. How much mercury is there in the average dose of any vaccine as compared to a typical can of albacore tuna? Could we be blaming the wrong source of mercury here?

[Undesired Walrus]

If I see a doctor with a syringe? I'll shoot him.

[Mangoose]

Actually, in alternative medicine circles in the 1920s and 1930s, there was a very strong sentiment against vaccination that made it the source of all sorts of diseases and ills....I have a perfect quote (which is also strikingly anti-semitic) that was published in one of their "journals," I'm trying to find my xerox of it, but I've misplaced it at the moment.

[T.A.M.]

Real quick question. How much mercury is there in the average dose of any vaccine as compared to a typical can of albacore tuna? Could we be blaming the wrong source of mercury here?

http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm
http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm
http://www.oregon.gov/DHS/ph/imm/docs/Thimtable1007.pdf

TAM:)

[leftysergeant]

I know of at least two families locally who refuse to have their children vaccinated because of the mercury scare, but feed them tuna sandwiches on a regular basis.

And the Washington State Department of Fish and Game tells me that I should probably be eating about half as much trout as I do and that fertile women should not eat perch out of the lake next to my home because of the mercury content.

Interesting.

[jhunter1163]

Has anyone else noticed that Malmoesoldier hasn't put in an appearance in this thread?

For me, you can lay a couple cc's of Kool Vax on me. Helps protect against woo.

[Elizabeth I]

The thing that burns me is, "I won't be vaccinated [or let my kids be vaccinated] because that's introducing a foreign substance into my body."

What the hell do they think a virus or germ is?

[ElMondoHummus]

Wait... Alex Jones is also into vaccination woo?

Has that man not met a lie he doesn't like yet??!! Christ!... That man... rrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Look, 9/11 fantasy has it's own problems, but believing WTC, Pentagon, or Shanksville B.S. shouldn't cause health problems (no pyschiatry jokes, please ;), I mean literal physical illnesses). But steering people away from vaccinations has a very real effect on the populations health. There are death rates associated with measles, the flu, etc.... TAM, you can speak to the specifics of that far better than I can, but seriously, this antivaccination woo is fantasy that has a very real and detrimental effect.

Good God... I now officially believe that man is dangerous, not merely an idiot. My sig has never applied to a man as fully as it does to Alex Jones.

[ElMondoHummus]

The thing that burns me is, "I won't be vaccinated [or let my kids be vaccinated] because that's introducing a foreign substance into my body."

What the hell do they think a virus or germ is?


Or food. Or drinks.

And not to be crude, but how'd the kids get conceived?

The things people think...

[ElMondoHummus]

Not trying to machine-gun post here, but: TAM (or anyone else) - Do you know why Thimerosal is still used in flu vaccinations, as well as others like "MMR"? According to this link (http://www.babycenter.com/0_vaccines-and-autism-separating-fact-from-fiction_1470554.bc#articlesection1), it's added "as a preservative to inhibit the growth of bacteria and fungi in vaccines", but from what I'm finding online, most other vaccines have moved away from Thimerosal as a preservative/anti-spoilant. The question is, why is it still used when other agents are available?

Yes, I know I can hypothesize why; for example, I can say "maybe those other agents degrade flu and MMR vaccines". I was just wondering if anyone happened to know for certain why.

Thanks in advance! :thanks

[portlandatheist]

I was under the impression that the NWO decided to stop the chemtrail campaign and replace it with their new vaccination campaign because it was much more cost effective use of the pricey chemicals.
Seriously though, this conspiracy theory is very dangerous to public health.

[T.A.M.]

Not trying to machine-gun post here, but: TAM (or anyone else) - Do you know why Thimerosal is still used in flu vaccinations, as well as others like "MMR"? According to this link (http://www.babycenter.com/0_vaccines-and-autism-separating-fact-from-fiction_1470554.bc#articlesection1), it's added "as a preservative to inhibit the growth of bacteria and fungi in vaccines", but from what I'm finding online, most other vaccines have moved away from Thimerosal as a preservative/anti-spoilant. The question is, why is it still used when other agents are available?

Yes, I know I can hypothesize why; for example, I can say "maybe those other agents degrade flu and MMR vaccines". I was just wondering if anyone happened to know for certain why.

Thanks in advance! :thanks

Off the top of my head, I would suspect (A) Price (Thimerosal may be cheaper than other preservatives), (B) Slow to come around to the change, (C) No obvious incentive to change it (no real evidence showing the levels cause significant pathology), (D) The flu vaccine has egg product in it, and it maybe that only certain preservatives (such as Thimerosal) are effective or stable in such a soup.

I'll let you know if I hear or read anything more precise.

TAM:)

[e^n]

Wouldn't the replacement of the preservative require another round of medical trials? My medical knowledge is very very limited but I can imagine the controls are quite strict on things like this.

[Corsair 115]

Folks may wish to check out the thread Six Reasons to Question Vaccinations (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=95894) in the Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology forum, for a discussion on the scientific aspects of vaccinations.

[T.A.M.]

Wouldn't the replacement of the preservative require another round of medical trials? My medical knowledge is very very limited but I can imagine the controls are quite strict on things like this.

Almost certainly.

Folks may wish to check out the thread Six Reasons to Question Vaccinations (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=95894) in the Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology forum, for a discussion on the scientific aspects of vaccinations.

Thanks, will do.

TAM:)

[Alt+F4]

If the MMR injection was a cause of autism, then why are most autistic children boys? Does thimerosal have a different effect on males then females? My 9 year-old nephew has moderate to severe (depends on which day) autism and my mother thinks there is a testosterone factor. His parents think the thimersol might have might have been some sort of trigger for autism.

My sister also said that there is little to no autism in communities that traditionally didn't take the MMR injection, such as the Amish and rural African communities. Not sure if this is true.

[T.A.M.]

If the MMR injection was a cause of autism, then why are most autistic children boys? Does thimerosal have a different effect on males then females? My 9 year-old nephew has moderate to severe (depends on which day) autism and my mother thinks there is a testosterone factor. His parents think the thimersol might have might have been some sort of trigger for autism.

My sister also said that there is little to no autism in communities that traditionally didn't take the MMR injection, such as the Amish and rural African communities. Not sure if this is true.

Welcome to the party.;)

Though I suspect your questions are rhetorical, I will simply restate that there is NO SOLID SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE, that the MMR vaccine, or any other vaccine, Thimerosal or not, causes or increases the likelihood of autism, or any neurological disorder. There is no scientific evidence that Thimerosal "triggers" the onset of Autism or any other disorder.

As for the Amish/rural African point, if there is any proof of this, simply list it (or have your sister do so). I suspect there is NO SCIENCE behind the subject, but rather anecdotal evidence only.

TAM:)

[leftysergeant]

My sister also said that there is little to no autism in communities that traditionally didn't take the MMR injection, such as the Amish and rural African communities. Not sure if this is true.

I shouldn't think that the Amish or rural Africans eat a lot of tuna, favoring more readily available local foods. I have heard of some African tribes who make a specific point of not eating fish, and refuse to eat even hippopotamus because they think of it, being an aquatic creature, as a fish.

There is probably more linkage between eating tuna and mercury levels. Long-term exposure is probably more likely to cause life-long health problems than one dose of a vaccine.

[T.A.M.]

On a search of google scholar, I could find very little on the Amish and Autism. What I did find was an article with anecdotal reporting from an MD who treats the Amish, which seems to support the argument, but that is all, and we all know the value of anecdotal evidence.

TAM:)

[Alt+F4]

...and we all know the value of anecdotal evidence.

TAM:)

How true. I've always thought that the anecdotal evidence of ferel children were in reality children with autism that had been abandoned by their families.

Again, any vaccination conspiracy would have to explain why most children with are boys. My bad...I forgot, conspiracy nuts never have a logical explaination for anything.

[T.A.M.]

Well if the could prove that the majority of cases were boys due to an inheritance pattern, and then also prove that mercury "triggers" the functioning of the gene that "brings on" autism, and then finally, if they could show that the amount of Thimerosal cummulatively built up in the test subjects was sufficient to cause this, then, and only then would they have a case...so far they are not batting to well.

TAM:)

[Mangoose]

By the way, you all do know that this is the cover theme of this month's Skeptical Inquirer? I picked it up yesterday and there are three articles debunking the whole vaccination/autism link.

[ckent2]

I've dealt with the vaccination thing at length on some other sites. I can't count the articles I've found, including one from a physician who had a son with autism. He believed the "myth" and followed some suggestions from homeopathic doctors. It did his son no good and the treatments, which weren't covered by health insurance, cost him a fortune. I'll locate the article and post it when I can. It's pretty informative.

[T.A.M.]

There is a good link in the medicine section,

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=95894

TAM:)

[jaydeehess]

Let's see, in the last 12 months I have been vacinated for
tetnus
influenza
pneumonia
hepatitus

should I be withdrawing into myself soon?

[ElMondoHummus]

Off the top of my head, I would suspect (A) Price (Thimerosal may be cheaper than other preservatives), (B) Slow to come around to the change, (C) No obvious incentive to change it (no real evidence showing the levels cause significant pathology), (D) The flu vaccine has egg product in it, and it maybe that only certain preservatives (such as Thimerosal) are effective or stable in such a soup.

I'll let you know if I hear or read anything more precise.

TAM:)


Twhoops... lost track of this thread. Thanks for the answer, TAM.

Well if the could prove that the majority of cases were boys due to an inheritance pattern, and then also prove that mercury "triggers" the functioning of the gene that "brings on" autism, and then finally, if they could show that the amount of Thimerosal cummulatively built up in the test subjects was sufficient to cause this, then, and only then would they have a case...so far they are not batting to well.

TAM:)

As I recall, the original study that started the scare didn't even prove a strong correlative link, let alone postulate any mechanism explaining how it could have happened. In fact, I think I remember two things about it:

1. That even the researcher raising the scare admitted there was no definitive link (he simply remained convinced of the potential for problems, in spite of his findings)

2. That the researcher's hand-waving regarding the mechanism consisted of a simple claim of the components of the mixed vaccine interfering with each other. Which was proffered without any proof, as his study was merely a statistical one (if I remember correctly).

I'll try to look that all up again. But anyway TAM, you're right. It would take a good, strong case where every link in that mechanism chain was properly supported by evidence. And no such evidence exists.


-----------

ETA:

Whoooooooops.... I'm confusing the claims. What I was referring to above was the Andrew Wakefield MMR study. That claim did not involve mercury, but rather postulated that the combination of the individual Measles, Mumps, and Rubella vaccines somehow combined to trigger both bowel disorders and autism.

But, as wrong as I was, I still somehow managed to stumble into being on-topic for the broader spirit of this post. :) The Wakefield case, while not strictly speaking a conspiracy theory, still contains aspects of sloppy pseudoscience and indications of sadly uncritical thinking that's common in conspiracy theory. For starters, there's reliance on shaky studies, contradicted by other produced science but dismissed by many for the most unscientific of reasons. There's also claims of ulterior motives behind the government insistence that Wakefield is wrong. All in spite of the rather blunt reality of the Wakefield studies:


Wakefield's original study in 'The Lancet' was a report of 12 autistic children with severe bowel symptoms and said: 'We DID NOT PROVE an association between measles, mumps and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described.' ...

... 'I'm not saying that the vaccine is definitely to blame but I've seen patients with a new bowel condition who also have autism and it's one explanation that deserves our attention.'


(Source (http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/antenna/mmr/cip2/121.asp))


So, Wakefield's contribution to vaccine 'woo' is as problematic as Alex Jones's. The only difference is in the details: Bowel issues and component interference, as opposed to mercury fears. But still, problematic overall.

Sad.

[niloroth]

I know of at least two families locally who refuse to have their children vaccinated because of the mercury scare, but feed them tuna sandwiches on a regular basis.

Interesting.

In that case they have managed to get it exactly backwards. They should be concerned with Methyl mercury, from fish, which does bioaccumulate. However, there is no proven reason for them to be in fear of ethyl mercury, which has been used in vaccines, since it does not bioaccumulate.

They are risking their kids health for decisions based on bad science, and that is truly sad.

[niloroth]

My sister also said that there is little to no autism in communities that traditionally didn't take the MMR injection, such as the Amish and rural African communities. Not sure if this is true.

I also don't know if there is any truth to these assertions, but i would also question if these are areas where autism would be underreported simply because of mistrust of doctors and serious lack of trained medical and psychological professionals. remember, correlation != causation.

[ElMondoHummus]

Hmmmm... two interesting notes:

I.

March 2005:

Japanese scientists say they have strong evidence that the MMR vaccination is not linked to a rise in autism after they found a rise in the incidence of autism after the withdrawal of the measles, mumps and rubella jab in their country in 1993.

The researchers from the Yokohama Rehabilitation Center and the Institute of Psychiatry looked at the incidence of autism spectrum disorders among 31,426 children up to the age of seven born from 1988 to 1996.

There were between 48 cases per 10,000 children born in 1988.The rate was steadily seen to rise to 117.2 per 10,000 for those born in 1996 - after MMR had been withdrawn.


(Source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1808956.stm))


So there does appear to be a correlation between MMR and autism. But in the exact opposite direction that Wakefield or Jones proposes.


And:

II.
The medical journal that published a controversial study linking MMR to autism says, with hindsight, it would not have published the paper.

Richard Horton, editor of the Lancet told the BBC the researchers had a "fatal conflict of interest"...

...Dr Horton said: "There were fatal conflicts of interest in this paper. "In my view, if we had known the conflict of interest Dr Wakefield had in this work I think that would have strongly affected the peer reviewers about the credibility of this work and in my judgement it would have been rejected."

(Source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3508167.stm))


Again, this is off-topic in regards to the issue of mercury content in vaccines, but it's on topic in regards to MMR causing autism. The general... hmmm, I don't know, "current"? As in "ocean current"? - of the MMR-Autism story seems to just keep flowing away from any sort of linkage.

[Mangoose]

Here is the recent issue:

http://www.csicop.org/si/2007-06/cover.jpg

[jaydeehess]

So there does appear to be a correlation between MMR and autism. But in the exact opposite direction that Wakefield or Jones proposes.


Hmmm, MMR as a partial response vaccination against autism...............

[ElMondoHummus]

Hmmm, MMR as a partial response vaccination against autism...............


Hehe... well, be careful about how you use that info. I was more being sarcastic about Wakefield and Alex Jones (much, muuuuch more so about Jones, the king of using poor science to buttress his views) than I was really suggesting any real linkage beyond correlation. So my statement was sort of tongue-in-cheek. :)

Although it is an interesting concept to muse, I'll agree. :D

[HereticHulk]

http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/immune_suppression.htm

http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/neurological_damage.htm

http://www.whale.to/v/my2.html

http://allnaturalhealth.us/june_russell_vaccinations.htm

[jaydeehess]

Hehe... well, be careful about how you use that info. I was more being sarcastic about Wakefield and Alex Jones (much, muuuuch more so about Jones, the king of using poor science to buttress his views) than I was really suggesting any real linkage beyond correlation. So my statement was sort of tongue-in-cheek. :)

Although it is an interesting concept to muse, I'll agree. :D

oh my tongue was quite in cheek when I posted too.

At best it shows that there is no correlation that Jones contends there is. To go beyond that would require much different investigation.

correlation may not equal cause , but no correlation does mean no cause.

[Chris Haynes]

Not trying to machine-gun post here, but: TAM (or anyone else) - Do you know why Thimerosal is still used in flu vaccinations, as well as others like "MMR"? ...

The MMR is a live virus vaccine and has NEVER contained thimerosal. Neither has the polio and chicken pox vaccines. For more information read this:
http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm

If you look at that list you will also see that the flu vaccine is available without thimerosal.

[Chris Haynes]

http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/immune_suppression.htm

http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/neurological_damage.htm

Ah yes, the guy whoh can't make up his mind of what causes autism! A short list from http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/mercola.htm


Pasteurised milk - http://www.mercola.com/2003/jul/2/pasteurized_milk.htm
Flouride - http://www.mercola.com/2001/jul/25/tooth_decay.htm (when consumed by pregnant women)
Aluminium - http://www.mercola.com/2006/apr/11/there_are_more_toxins_in_vaccines_than_mercury.htm
Mercury (of course) - http://www.mercola.com/2004/nov/3/mercury_vaccines_medicine.htm
MMR (of course) - http://www.mercola.com/2001/jan/28/mmr_autism.htm
Malnutrition - http://www.mercola.com/2004/jun/26/autism_malnutrition.htm
Lactose - http://www.mercola.com/2004/jun/26/autism_malnutrition.htm (it goes with the malnutrition)
Glutamine - http://www.mercola.com/2004/may/1/glutamine.htm (makes autism worse)
"An excess of grains, sugars, underground vegetables, and any fluid other than water" in the diet - http://www.mercola.com/2000/may/21/ritalin_prozac_adhd.htm (Mercola lies about achieving "near miraculous improvement" by following his advice.)
http://www.whale.to/v/my2.html

Woo hoo... it is the whale.to guy with his perpetual webpages of selective
quotes!

He also claims that satanic black lines burned his bum! From
http://www.whale.to/b/cbblack.html (http://www.whale.to/b/cbblack.html) ... " I also burnt my ass on it some years back when I was experimenting with psychedelics, similar to a chemical burn right through my trousers, where the trousers were unscathed apart from a flattening of the cord. I thought, first, that I had been given a metaphysical kick up the backside! Perhaps I had. "

(one wonders what kind of brain damage was caused by the psychedelics)

Not a very reliable source... Comments about John Scudamore in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-vaccinationists/Individuals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-vaccinationists/Individuals) include "a
large and slightly sorted collection of conspiracy theory save the whale,
illuminati, weird "science" and stuff which is not corrected to reflect demonstrated mistakes."





http://allnaturalhealth.us/june_russell_vaccinations.htm

Haven't looked this one up yet, I am sure it is full of all sorts of truthiness.

[T.A.M.]

http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/immune_suppression.htm

http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/neurological_damage.htm

http://www.whale.to/v/my2.html

http://allnaturalhealth.us/june_russell_vaccinations.htm

JHC, dear god, please help me.

TAM:rolleyes: