Your best argument that Christianity is false

[Apology]

I think it's something called 'marketing'

If you're selling plain old-fashioned water, announcing "Now with di-hydrogen monoxide!!!" can increase sales in the gullible sector

Similarly, if your selling plain old-fashioned woo...

Where can I get some of this fabulous water.

[six7s]

Where can I get some of this fabulous water.

I'm not sure... my stockbroker sends me a carton every quarter as a dividend payout for the shares I have in the Sylvia Browne Corporation

[Ladewig]

Which is a good argument against treating the Gospels as accurate, but a poor one against treating them as having no use to historians of ancient history, who are pretty much stuck dealing with sources tainted to at least some degree. You might as well say that Philostratus' Life of Apollonius is worthless to historians, and it's as least as fanciful as the Gospels.


OK. I have little understanding of how difficult it is to piece together ancient history. So I will grant that the Gospels offer useful insight to these historians. I'll even go so far as to assume that the Gospels offer invaluable insight to first century life around the east end of the Mediterranean. That still leaves a great whopping gap between "the Gospels help historians" and "eternal life is available only through belief in Jesus Christ."

One cannot seriously posit that the Gospel writers were grossly exaggerating when they said that the dead saints rose from the grave and were seen by many but were telling the absolute, unvarnished truth when they said Jesus born of Mary rose from the grave and was seen by many.

[Ladewig]

Where can I get some of this fabulous water.

Just to prove the idea that there is no way to distinguish between religious satire and actual religious claims, I offer this link. (http://www.peterpopoff.org/miraclespringwater.php) Please note the pull down menu that illustrates just how powerful this magical water is.

[Apology]

Just to prove the idea that there is no way to distinguish between religious satire and actual religious claims, I offer this link. (http://www.peterpopoff.org/miraclespringwater.php) Please note the pull down menu that illustrates just how powerful this magical water is.

When I was in college there was this little occult store that had a mish-mash of odd stuff, some really nice incense (the purpose for my visit), and these bottles of "Holy Blessed Water" that you could buy for $10. There was a little pyramid of sort of spiffy apothecary-style jars on the counter. Propped up against the pyramid was a little note that said you could get a $2.00 discount on your next purchase of Holy Blessed Water if you brought back their bottle for "cleansing and recharging". I had a little giggle over that and pointed it out to my friend.

Unfortunately my friend was a clown and began to talk to the proprietor, quite seriously, about the marketing opportunities available to her for the Holy Blessed Water, and even talked about outsourcing the labor of actually blessing the water to India, since they're real spiritual and all. By the time we left I knew I had to buy incense somewhere else forever after.

Edit: One of the best things about the internet is I can buy good incense without all the woo now :)

[six7s]

bottles of "Holy Blessed Water" that you could buy for $10

At around the age of eight, a thought occured to me that I shared with the local RC parish priest: instead of 'blessing' a litre or two at a time, why not 'bless' the town-supply reservoir... then everyone would have it on tap in their homes, drink it, shower in it, water the garden with it... it'd be like living in heaven :)

He looked at me like I had pissed in his scotch :(

[Mobyseven]

Jesus was crucified on the cross. The twelve disciples testified to the fact that he was resurrected. The skeptics Paul and James were converted to Christianity based on the resurrection. The tomb that held Jesus' body was empty.

Stop the presses, I'm a convert. Four separate authors of four different gospels who provide four different accounts of the death and resurrection of Jesus have apparently told us that twelve guys who lived two millenia ago said that they saw Jesus rise from the dead.

Sound like a trustworthy source to me. Just one question - is the creation story in Genesis One accurate, or is it the creation story in Genesis Two? Been trying to rationalise that one all day, and it is a doozy.

[Mobyseven]

Where can I get some of this fabulous water.

Nigeria.

[dannagain]

Jear jj,

Because I presume there are a few people here capable of reason rather than just logic and doubt. They're spread pretty thin, though.

Cpl Ferro

probably been mentioned but reason and logic in the way that you are using them are basically interchangeable so what you've said makes no sense.

[Z]

Didn't I tell y'all JJ would say that?

Heh!

Sorry, JJ, the 'criterion of embarrassment' just doesn't fly. It's the weakest possible defense of Scripture I've ever encountered.

No doubt about it - they're false from stem to stern.

[jjramsey]

That still leaves a great whopping gap between "the Gospels help historians" and "eternal life is available only through belief in Jesus Christ."

Of course. I never said otherwise.

Sorry, JJ, the 'criterion of embarrassment' just doesn't fly. It's the weakest possible defense of Scripture I've ever encountered.

The criterion of embarrassment is not a defense of Scripture, period. :rolleyes: Like I said, it's meant to be used on material that isn't that reliable. (Livius.org (http://www.livius.org/ap-ark/apollonius/apollonius07.html#Evaluation) has examples of its use on the problematic sources for Apollonius.)

[articulett]

Hey, what happened to chippy?

[Apology]

Hey, what happened to chippy?

I think he/she sent in the second string or something.

[articulett]

I think he/she sent in the second string or something.

Or may have decided to spend more time preparing for the second coming...

(I hear it's going to be rapturous.)

[Apology]

Or may have decided to spend more time preparing for the second coming...

(I hear it's going to be rapturous.)

I've always been confused about that. The faithful are going to ascend in the rapture, yet the meek shall inherit the earth. Are all the non-faithful unbelievers "the meek"? And, hey, the earth is a pretty fine inheritance, I'd take a chunk of that. Doesn't sound like much of a punishment---but what about Armageddon? I'm wondering if the meek are going to inherit the earth and be punished for it right after in Armageddon. Maybe God doesn't turn over the deed and the keys to the front door of Earth until after Armageddon, so maybe that's where I'm wrong. I'm hoping Chippy comes back to explain it.

[articulett]

I've always been confused about that. The faithful are going to ascend in the rapture, yet the meek shall inherit the earth. Are all the non-faithful unbelievers "the meek"? And, hey, the earth is a pretty fine inheritance, I'd take a chunk of that. Doesn't sound like much of a punishment---but what about Armageddon? I'm wondering if the meek are going to inherit the earth and be punished for it right after in Armageddon. Maybe God doesn't turn over the deed and the keys to the front door of Earth until after Armageddon, so maybe that's where I'm wrong. I'm hoping Chippy comes back to explain it.

Forum Member (and Poker Tournament winner) Rose was wearing a t-shirt at TAM that said "when the rapture comes, can I have your car?" I thought that was funny. Us meek are going to need cars to meet up with each other and pick up the debris as clothing etc. are left behind and naked followers ascend... but how can people on opposite sides of the earth both ascend since there are different "ups"?

Chippy better come back and fill us in...

[jjramsey]

I've always been confused about that. The faithful are going to ascend in the rapture, yet the meek shall inherit the earth. Are all the non-faithful unbelievers "the meek"?

You're not the only one who's confused. It's not even too clear whether there even is supposed to be a rapture, and just about every doctrine about the end times seems to have been considered a heresy by somebody. :con2:

To be fair, supposedly what is to happen is that the heavens and the earth are renewed around the time of the general resurrection at the end time, and the faithful are supposed to inherit that. Not sure how or if a rapture is supposed to fit with that, though.

[Ladewig]

Hey, what happened to chippy?

He may have a life and thus checks this message board infrequently. He may be travelling for the holidays.