Lunar Therapy

[seayakin]

Here is some real snake oil:

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/lunartherapymore11052007-CR.html

The do not charge at present but it is probably a matter of time. I guess when some people are ill they become desperate and throw rationalism out the window.

[wahrheit]

Monica Chapin says they can't justify asking people to pay until they have the scientific evidence to back up the benefits.

Looking forward to that scientific evidence.

But I have a question. They say that the "specific light spectrum [of the moon] has never been artificially duplicated".

1) Why would one want to do this, anyway?

2) Is it a problem to make an artificial light source like this? (I would think not, but I'm not an expert in this.)

[seayakin]

When the science does not prove the value of lunar therapy, will they say it is biased or come up with some other excuse? Or, will they do there own pseudoscientific study that "proves" their claims?

[m_huber]

When the science does not prove the value of lunar therapy, will they say it is biased or come up with some other excuse? Or, will they do there own pseudoscientific study that "proves" their claims?

My bet is that they will totally ignore it, if it ever comes up.

[Locknar]

When the science does not prove the value of lunar therapy, will they say it is biased or come up with some other excuse? Or, will they do there own pseudoscientific study that "proves" their claims?
What do you mean "when the science does not prove the value"; of course there is value in it. After all, its a proven fact that the moon alters the light it reflects from the Sun in such a way to have tremendous healing power.

Of course, to better focus the power you need a pyramid...and a little crystal thingy to hang from your neck, and coaching from Shirly MacLaine, and a invisible Bigfoot to help focus everything with his tremendous telepathy power.

[slyjoe]

Looking forward to that scientific evidence.

But I have a question. They say that the "specific light spectrum [of the moon] has never been artificially duplicated".

1) Why would one want to do this, anyway?

2) Is it a problem to make an artificial light source like this? (I would think not, but I'm not an expert in this.)

1. They are wrong. They do it all the time, for many reasons. Sunlight is good for lots of stuff.
2. Go buy a full spectrum (sunlight) bulb. The spectrum of sunlight and moonlight are the same.

Hope this helps.

[The Man]

Loony therapy might be a better name for it.

Normal light therapy, to treat Seasonal Affective Disorder (winter blues), seems to have some underlying credibility as it relates to our lack of more regular exposure to bright light during the winter months. However, not being nocturnal animals regularly exposed to the only monthly light of the full moon, I do not see how this could have any therapeutic value.

“ILA is trying to prove those differences can impact medical, agricultural and industrial fields.”

Yeah, good luck with that.

Wait a second, perhaps I’m not thinking about this correctly. Could Lunar Therapy help with conditions that are more in sync with the lunar cycle? Perhaps I should see if this might help my girlfriend with her PMS symptoms. Somehow I think trying to get her to stand in front of a giant mirror reflecting moon light during one of those “periods” would end up being worse for me.

[Denver]

Looks like this topic has come up before:

Feb 2007: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=74065&highlight=interstellar

[Apathia]

What happened to the cummulative lore that moonlight is deleterious?
And what happens if someoene gets "moonstruck?"
And sues! :egggoofy:

[Diagoras]

I call it "lunar-th'y" for short.

[Babylon Sister]

Looking forward to that scientific evidence.

But I have a question. They say that the "specific light spectrum [of the moon] has never been artificially duplicated".

1) Why would one want to do this, anyway?

2) Is it a problem to make an artificial light source like this? (I would think not, but I'm not an expert in this.)

Because it only reflects light from the sun, could we say that the moon is an artificial light source?

[wahrheit]

1. They are wrong. They do it all the time, for many reasons. Sunlight is good for lots of stuff.
2. Go buy a full spectrum (sunlight) bulb. The spectrum of sunlight and moonlight are the same.

Hope this helps.

Okay, thanks. Then their blather about doing something nobody has done before was nothing but misdirection.

(Just in case some readers might have misunderstood me - I wouldn't believe for a second anything about this crapola. I simply lack the background to know if the light spectrum of the moon might be different or special in any kind, and hard to reproduce artificially.)

Because it only reflects light from the sun, could we say that the moon is an artificial light source?

Guess that's a question of defining "artificial". Since the moon is not man-made, I'd call it a natural light source. (Then again, you could argue, is it a light source?)

[The Man]

Does an artificial light source emit artificial light?

Any thing that emits light is a light source. An artificial light source is something that emits light in a spectrum similar to some other light source.

The actual light source in this case is the sun, however by reflecting off the moons surface specific wavelengths of the sunlight’s spectrum may be absorber or scattered. As a result the light reflected off the moon may be some spectral modification of sunlight.

I think the main reason no one has created an artificial light source with the same spectral configuration as moonlight is, well, there just isn’t any compelling reason to do that.

Well now we have a new use for the rocks and dust brought back from the moon. Place them on a dark background; reflect some sunlight off of them and bingo an artificial source of moonlight.

[Madalch]

Of course, you could use the mirrors in the day to get some real solar cooking done.

Hopefully, nobody will try curing their cancer with solar energy in that way.

[wahrheit]

Of course, you could use the mirrors in the day to get some real solar cooking done.

Hopefully, nobody will try curing their cancer with solar energy in that way.

Oh, it will certainly destroy the cancer. Along with evaporating the rest of your body. :o

[Babylon Sister]

Because it only reflects light from the sun, could we say that the moon is an artificial light source?

Guess that's a question of defining "artificial". Since the moon is not man-made, I'd call it a natural light source. (Then again, you could argue, is it a light source?)

Soon after I submitted my question I realized that I hadn't really thought this through. And after thinking more about it, I can't even make my original thought make sense to me. If someone had posed this question to me, I can think of 3 or 4 different ways I might argue the pro side AND the con side. But any argument would just be bantering semantics.

I can't even win an argument with myself. How sad.

[slyjoe]

Soon after I submitted my question I realized that I hadn't really thought this through. And after thinking more about it, I can't even make my original thought make sense to me. If someone had posed this question to me, I can think of 3 or 4 different ways I might argue the pro side AND the con side. But any argument would just be bantering semantics.

I can't even win an argument with myself. How sad.

Forget artificial - worry about what "source" means. :)

Anyway, I wouldn't consider the moon a light source. It doesn't emit light of its own accord. Would you consider a mirror a light source? Taking this to its logical conclusion, anything we can see is a light source. Kind of ridiculous.

ETA: I think the distinction is between "emit" and "reflect", just to be clear.

[Cuddles]

Why does the Moon need therapy?

2. Go buy a full spectrum (sunlight) bulb. The spectrum of sunlight and moonlight are the same.

Surely not. Rocks are far from a perfect reflector, so the spectrum will be different. To take the most obvious example, the Sun looks yellow but the Moon looks white/grey.

Edit: Incidentally, this (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5460528.html) would be artificial moonlight.

[slyjoe]

Why does the Moon need therapy?



Surely not. Rocks are far from a perfect reflector, so the spectrum will be different. To take the most obvious example, the Sun looks yellow but the Moon looks white/grey.

Edit: Incidentally, this (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5460528.html) would be artificial moonlight.

Actually, NASA doesn't seem to think so.

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2003-04/1049896879.Ph.r.html

You are correct in that the sunlight bulbs you can buy are not exact duplicates of sunlight - the chromosphere causes absorption lines that are not present in the bulbs. Both the sun and the "sunlight" bulbs have a color temp of ~6000K.

ETA: BTW, love the sig :)

[DRBUZZ0]

When the science does not prove the value of lunar therapy, will they say it is biased or come up with some other excuse? Or, will they do there own pseudoscientific study that "proves" their claims?

Do you honestly think that you can shoot down a loony quackery scheme just by showing repeatedly and under numerous different conditions that well controlled, documented and consistently and repeatedly show it's completely worthless?

Hell, if that worked, we wouldn't have had homeopathy and about 95% of other alternative medical practices.

[darnell11]

The website talks about studies that have shown moonlight may have benefits, but they don't have the studies or links to them. I wonder why...

[Cuddles]

Actually, NASA doesn't seem to think so.

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2003-04/1049896879.Ph.r.html

Well, it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. I suspect this depends on exactly what you mean by "the same". Unless the Moon is made from perfect mirrors, it's impossible for the spectra to be identical, but presumably they're close enough that they can be assumed the same for broad calculations. Still doesn't explain why the Sun is yellow but the Moon isn't though.

[slyjoe]

Well, it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. I suspect this depends on exactly what you mean by "the same". Unless the Moon is made from perfect mirrors, it's impossible for the spectra to be identical, but presumably they're close enough that they can be assumed the same for broad calculations. Still doesn't explain why the Sun is yellow but the Moon isn't though.

Not the first time I've been wrong either. Also, I'm not sure if they are talking about the spectrum as seen from outside the atmosphere. They are NASA, after all :)

As to why the sun appears yellow and the moon white, a big issue is that our eyes can discern colors better in high light, but not low light, situations.

The sun's spectrum also changes over the course of a day or based on weather, which would indicate the atmosphere plays a big role also.

A helpful link as to why the sun appears yellow and the moon white.

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2003-05/1054141348.Ph.r.html

[DRBUZZ0]

I suppose if you like moonlight you may enjoy as much of it as you can, considering that Bush has ordered Nasa to return to the moon, I'm a bit concerned about how long it might be there... at least in the shape it is. And for that matter... would moon-bathing be considered enough evidence of terrorist connections to have your ass hauled to Guantanamo Bay...

I'm just thinking we might see this sort of thing on TV in the near future:

http://www.depletedcranium.com/lunarfreedom.jpg