Language

[suicidesamurai]

We all know psychics like to throw out lots of names during readings as one of their cold reading techniques. What if they don't speak your native language and aren't familiar with your native culture? They might not know common names from your language. Jim and Betty don't cut it for Nigerians.

So, if anyone is willing to fork over some cash to have a couple of readings done and knows an immigrant, preferably from some place like Thailand or Nigeria where the common names wouldn't be known to an American, here is what you do.

Have a reading with a psychic (preferably someone high-profile) as yourself, whether it be in person or over the phone. Record this (secretly) and see how many names they cite.

Then, have someone else set up a reading for the immigrant friend as a birthday gift, to cover why they are setting it up for someone else. Do not mention that person's cultural background.

Have them have a reading that is recorded. See how many common Nigerian or Thai names are cited.

If these spirits are speaking from the other side, there shouldn't be too much trouble in simply repeating the names.

The differential between the number of names cited should be a differential in cultural and linguistic knowledge, not psychic ability.

This is, of course, not a perfect experiment. It's not even particularly well thought out. But I thought I'd just post an idea.

[Blackwell]

It sounds like a good idea, but most psychics rely on some sort of feedback from the victim - so they may start with "I'm getting an 'T' - does that mean anything to you?" They'd be unlikely to rattle off a whole list of names.
I guess you could counter with "yeah, my dead uncle's name was Tai-ho; but he didn't speak any English. How are you talking to him?" But of course they'll just counter that with something like "well, I'm not really speaking with them - just getting impressions. There are no languages/cultures/etc. on the other side!"

Oh, and welcome to the forum, ss!

[suicidesamurai]

It sounds like a good idea, but most psychics rely on some sort of feedback from the victim - so they may start with "I'm getting an 'T' - does that mean anything to you?" They'd be unlikely to rattle off a whole list of names.
I guess you could counter with "yeah, my dead uncle's name was Tai-ho; but he didn't speak any English. How are you talking to him?" But of course they'll just counter that with something like "well, I'm not really speaking with them - just getting impressions. There are no languages/cultures/etc. on the other side!"Yes, this is what they often do. But they still come out with some names.

"J - Jim, Joe, John? Does this mean anything?"

"My uncle was named Jomobano."

"Yes, that was it. He says hi."

If they are speaking to the dead they should still be able to cite some actual names at some point, whether they are foreign to them or not.

Oh, and welcome to the forum, ss!Thank you.

[Blackwell]

Yes, this is what they often do. But they still come out with some names.

"J - Jim, Joe, John? Does this mean anything?"

"My uncle was named Jomobano."

"Yes, that was it. He says hi."

If they are speaking to the dead they should still be able to cite some actual names at some point, whether they are foreign to them or not.

Thank you.

Yes, I agree, if they were actually in contact with the "other side" then they should be able to throw out the correct name, regardless of the deceased's culture. However, the way it usually works is more like:

"I feel a presence near you, and I'm getting a 'J'. Does that mean anything to you?"

"Yes! My uncle's name was Jomobano!"

Etc. if 'J' doesn't seem to spark any meaning in the victim, then the psychic moves on.

[wahrheit]

Once they figure out you are a non-believer (skeptic, atheist, whatever) they will say, at least after you publish your observations,

- that it doesn't work if you don't really want it/feel it/believe it/whatever

- that is was a trap you set up. (Like Sylvia did after reading that German guy in a TV show, IIRC, Randi wrote about it somewhere.)

- that you were lying or at least dishonest from the beginning, so it was not their fault

- someone up to trick them causes lot's of bad vibrations, the interpretation gets wrong etc. etc.

- other excuses...

[suicidesamurai]

Yes, I agree, if they were actually in contact with the "other side" then they should be able to throw out the correct name, regardless of the deceased's culture. However, the way it usually works is more like:

"I feel a presence near you, and I'm getting a 'J'. Does that mean anything to you?"

"Yes! My uncle's name was Jomobano!"

Etc. if 'J' doesn't seem to spark any meaning in the victim, then the psychic moves on.Perhaps the individual being read could acknowledge that 'J' means many things to them, and ask the reader to specify. But these psychics will say to a fellow American (or whatever culture) different names associated with the letter. They do this all the time. So let's see if they can simply do the same with a foreign language and culture. This of course wouldn't be groundbreaking that they would fail, but the point should be driven home in as many ways as possible.

[suicidesamurai]

Once they figure out you are a non-believer (skeptic, atheist, whatever) they will say, at least after you publish your observations,

- that it doesn't work if you don't really want it/feel it/believe it/whatever

- that is was a trap you set up. (Like Sylvia did after reading that German guy in a TV show, IIRC, Randi wrote about it somewhere.)

- that you were lying or at least dishonest from the beginning, so it was not their fault

- someone up to trick them causes lot's of bad vibrations, the interpretation gets wrong etc. etc.

- other excuses...Use a believer immigrant. It would drive the point home even further when they were a believer and you weren't, yet the results were the opposite of what they would predict. (no pun intended)

[ExMinister]

Don't bother with Sylvia Browne. As an ex-minister I can tell you she hardly ever names names in readings anyway except for a person's spirit guide, which is the one name she always provides (and is of course totally un-verifiable) and if she does mention a person who is passed in a private phone reading, doesn't usually name them. She's clever, much more likely to say, "Who is the tall, dark-haired guy?" She will occasionally say something like, "Who is David?" or some other common name, or state something profound like, "Someone named Tim will come in who will be a big help to you." Again future, un-verifiable. So she'd be even less likely to say, "Who is Jambobo?" But that alone (the absence of her naming foreign-sounding names) probably wouldn't be enough to make a decent article. So you'd have to go with a medium like John Edward or van Praagh who hasn't been playing it as safe as she has. And just a thought - Would be important to use a different name for the friend so the name itself isn't a tip-off.

Also would probably need to be a phone reading to be most effective so the person's appearance and/or speech doesn't give their ethnicity away.

[Diagoras]

"Who is David?"
Oh my God, that's my dad's name! How did you know that?

Wait a minute...if you're talking with the other side...DAD'S DEAD?!?! OH NOEZ!

[suicidesamurai]

Don't bother with Sylvia Browne. As an ex-minister I can tell you she hardly ever names names in readings anyway except for a person's spirit guide, which is the one name she always provides (and is of course totally un-verifiable) and if she does mention a person who is passed in a private phone reading, doesn't usually name them. She's clever, much more likely to say, "Who is the tall, dark-haired guy?" She will occasionally say something like, "Who is David?" or some other common name, or state something profound like, "Someone named Tim will come in who will be a big help to you." Again future, un-verifiable. So she'd be even less likely to say, "Who is Jambobo?" But that alone (the absence of her naming foreign-sounding names) probably wouldn't be enough to make a decent article. So you'd have to go with a medium like John Edward or van Praagh who hasn't been playing it as safe as she has. And just a thought - Would be important to use a different name for the friend so the name itself isn't a tip-off.

Also would probably need to be a phone reading to be most effective so the person's appearance and/or speech doesn't give their ethnicity away.I was thinking van Praagh would be a good candidate. But actually over the phone their voice could give them away, or if it didn't, the situation would be different. Because then they would assume they are American and would cite American names. If they know the person is foreign, they would either get the foreign names from the spirits, or avoid names altogether.

[Crossbow]

We all know psychics like to throw out lots of names during readings as one of their cold reading techniques. What if they don't speak your native language and aren't familiar with your native culture? They might not know common names from your language. Jim and Betty don't cut it for Nigerians.

So, if anyone is willing to fork over some cash to have a couple of readings done and knows an immigrant, preferably from some place like Thailand or Nigeria where the common names wouldn't be known to an American, here is what you do.

Have a reading with a psychic (preferably someone high-profile) as yourself, whether it be in person or over the phone. Record this (secretly) and see how many names they cite.

Then, have someone else set up a reading for the immigrant friend as a birthday gift, to cover why they are setting it up for someone else. Do not mention that person's cultural background.

Have them have a reading that is recorded. See how many common Nigerian or Thai names are cited.

If these spirits are speaking from the other side, there shouldn't be too much trouble in simply repeating the names.

The differential between the number of names cited should be a differential in cultural and linguistic knowledge, not psychic ability.

This is, of course, not a perfect experiment. It's not even particularly well thought out. But I thought I'd just post an idea.

Welcome to JREF!

You are quite right about the descendent speaking one language and the psychic speaking another language. In fact, this was one of the many things that Houdini found most odd.

If I recall correctly, one time when Houdini was on tour in England he consulted a psychic in order to talk to his dead mother. And sure enough, the psychic did talk to his dead mother using the English language.

However, his mother did not speak English.

When asked about this anomaly, the psychic responded with "Everybody speaks English in heaven.".

Ugh!

[Diagoras]

Welcome to JREF!

You are quite right about the descendent speaking one language and the psychic speaking another language. In fact, this was one of the many things that Houdini found most odd.

If I recall correctly, one time when Houdini was on tour in England he consulted a psychic in order to talk to his dead mother. And sure enough, the psychic did talk to his dead mother using the English language.

However, his mother did not speak English.

When asked about this anomaly, the psychic responded with "Everybody speaks English in heaven.".

Ugh!
Well of course, as a former British colony, Heaven's official language is English. Millions upon millions of British settlers have emigrated to Heaven, far more than ever settled the USA, Canada, and Australia combined.

http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/top100.aspx
"[on the sunject of a Bible printing company]

Yes, that is a great company. I bought one of their large print version (old eyes... what can I say?).

The only thing I don't like about them is they sell foreign language versions of the KJB. I don't think that's right. We know the only true translation is the 1600's version in English.

It's too risky for anybody to translate that into other languages. Mistakes can creep in... and that can lead to heresy. True Christians should only read English."
"But God don't talk in Arabic. He talks in a REAL language, namely, English. It's true that back in them days He translated that to some other language after Speaking it in English, but after all, it's His universe and He can do what He doggone well wants to do."

[Ersby]

I don't think that the technique of saying common names/initials can be applied to any society without some kind of tweaking. CFLarsen went to see a British medium in Denmark - he constantly came up with misses when he used the usual guesses that would do well in the UK. After the break, his guesses were noticably more Scandanavian. So a minimal change in culture was enough to throw things awry.

http://www.skepticreport.com/psychicpowers/grahambishop.htm

[thomps1d]

Yes, this is what they often do. But they still come out with some names.

"J - Jim, Joe, John? Does this mean anything?"

(snip)

If I were a cold reader faced with someone who is obviously from an immigrant family (fairly easy guess to make if the person being 'read' has at least a hint of an accent), I'd do something like this:

"I'm getting a J...J something. There's a bit of a language barrier issue...does that make sense?"

If J doesn't work, you could backtrack a bit:

"Well, because of the language barrier, I had a bit of trouble understanding him...it's actually more of a T...can you think of a T connection? Or possibly Tea? Did he drink tea? Do you know anyone that drinks tea?"

In other words, I don't think it would really be a major asset to go that route...it has a higher probability of revealing cold reading errors, but it's not like cold readers don't already make a ton of errors that believers ignore...

[darnell11]

I've always wondered why no one ever asks specific questions, such as:

" I'm seeing a J..."
" Yes, I know someone with a J name. Who are you seeing?"

OR

"I'm getting an older female..."
"Who is she? Can you tell me her name?"

You know, just simple questions. Most readings I have witnessed, the readees just nod and answer when asked to, but they don't really ask questions themselves. Why is that?

[Diagoras]

If I were a cold reader faced with someone who is obviously from an immigrant family (fairly easy guess to make if the person being 'read' has at least a hint of an accent), I'd do something like this:

"I'm getting a J...J something. There's a bit of a language barrier issue...does that make sense?"

If J doesn't work, you could backtrack a bit:

"Well, because of the language barrier, I had a bit of trouble understanding him...it's actually more of a T...can you think of a T connection? Or possibly Tea? Did he drink tea? Do you know anyone that drinks tea?"

In other words, I don't think it would really be a major asset to go that route...it has a higher probability of revealing cold reading errors, but it's not like cold readers don't already make a ton of errors that believers ignore...
If you were really dedicated, you could memorize the most common names among certain ethnic groups. But the effectiveness of that method would be dependent on what ethnicity specifically the person comes from. For instance, Russians tend to only use a couple dozen first names, while Chinese names are very often unique to the individual. Actually it would be pretty funny to see one of these people try to divine a Chinese name. "I'm getting a squiggly line...and a straight line...and kind another squiggly line. Does that ring any bells?"

[thomps1d]

Actually it would be pretty funny to see one of these people try to divine a Chinese name. "I'm getting a squiggly line...and a straight line...and kind another squiggly line. Does that ring any bells?"

I thought about that, but I think they'd just stick with phonetics...although I suppose they could try to tie in a Rorschach test style guessing game:

"I'm getting a ball of some sort...did they play ball, or like balls (not in that way, pervert!), or did they have some sort of ball-shaped symbol in their name, like a circle or a sun...did they like to suntan, or do they have an S in their name...any sort of an S connection...did they like to surf, or play in a sandbox...how about a box connection...did they have a box in the characters of their name, or play with cardboard boxes, or..."

And so on and so forth. :eye-poppi

[slingblade]

Oh my God, that's my dad's name! How did you know that?

Wait a minute...if you're talking with the other side...DAD'S DEAD?!?! OH NOEZ!

I believe Sylvia actually did that to someone on the Larry King Show....

[ExMinister]

I believe Sylvia actually did that to someone on the Larry King Show....

Yep. If I'm thinking of the same one, it's on Robert's site, 12/29/06. Larry King: You're Telling Me My Mother Has Died? http://www.stopsylviabrowne.com/articles/king_callerjapan.shtml