12/12/12 The End of The World as We Know It

[Tresjolie9]

Why 2012?

Someone gave me a link to, triple W
artideas <dot>com/Why2012/Why2012<dot>html Why 2012

It just had me laughing, but can someone please debunk this one for me.

I know some woos who are getting all worried about it, getting back to work on their Y2k shelters, and learning to fend for themselves.

[ravdin]

I can only think of one foolproof way to debunk this: wait until 12/13/12, then note that the world is still here.

[Tresjolie9]

But what if there is no world around on 12/13/12 :-(

[foosnut]

Most of the world will be destroyed in 2012.

The few that survive will rule the future of mandkind and limit everything, these Preists of the Temple of Syrinx will rule until 2112 when some guy finds a guitar...

[Diagoras]

I thought it was supposed to be 12/21/12? Granted, three twelves is a catchier number, but December 21 is the start of the winter solstice, plus there's supposed to be an astronomical alignment or something, plus it's a big round number in the Mayan calendar (and of course, ancient peoples knew way more than we because they were psychic or talking to aliens or something).

[Tresjolie9]

Yay, an extra 9 days, should go and edit some things :-)

[ravdin]

But what if there is no world around on 12/13/12 :-(

Then we skeptics will have to admit that we're wrong and the true believers will have the last laugh.

[DrewD]

To quote Maynard from Tool: "Some say the end is near. Some say we'll see armageddon soon. I certainly hope we will. I sure could use a vacation from this stupid s***."

[Diagoras]

Here's (http://survive2012.com/why_2012_alignment.php) an entertaining bunch of pseudoscience explaining the whole galactic alignment thing. I wonder if this has been brought to Phil Plait's attention. I can't find anything on his website about it, and it seems to be one of the more popular mystical memes out there about outer space.

I find it hilarious how they're predicting on that day there will be "a moment of collective spiritual birth" and "the cosmos will be reborn or recreated" like it's some wonderful thing, but the website is called Survive 2012 and they've got all these predictions about how it's also going to be doomsday. WTF?

[Tresjolie9]

......but December 21 is the start of the winter solstice, plus there's supposed to be an astronomical alignment or something, plus it's a big round number in the Mayan calendar (and of course, ancient peoples knew way more than we because they were psychic or talking to aliens or something).

Yes, even though we have made advancements in modern science, that these lovely ancient civilizations didn't have, they were still right when it comes to the end of the world.

Who cares about what the scientists say.

[Hellbound]

Hey!

Scientists have been wrong before! We know this because science told us so!

:D

[Dancing David]

It will be twice the ending that 6/6/6 was!

[Dancing David]

this says it all


But what is all this Mayan symbology doing almost three thousand miles from the Mayan homeland. From my atlas I got the coordinates of the Yucatan and entered them into the Red Shift location window. The Sun and Venus are well above the horizon. This is no good. This great Mayan event can't even be seen from the Mayan homeland. On the other hand, these ancient gods were all over the planet. And there must be many mythologies involved in this story. After all, this story is for all of us

[ExMinister]

As far as debunking, the good news is that the world is always about to end. There were people expecting the world to end in 1900. Cayce had it ending in the 1940s. Sylvia Browne used to say it was going to end in 1998...then 2004...now it's 100 years. Then there were the people who thought it would end with the millenium. I know lots of people who started stockpiling in 1999. Now it's 2012, the end of the Mayan calendar. How far out did they expect the Mayans to go with their calendar anyway?

And if it does end, the religious wingnuts staked out in bunkers with machine guns and water will inherit the earth. Probably I'd rather not be here to see that.

[Denver]

I wonder how many of the end-of-worlders would be willing to post-date a check for, say, $1,000 for the day after the world is to end, and send it to the JREF now?

[ToddH]

"And I feel fine." :)

[Tresjolie9]

I wonder how many of the end-of-worlders would be willing to post-date a check for, say, $1,000 for the day after the world is to end, and send it to the JREF now?

IMHO, that is a great idea, have anyone who claims the world will end on a certain day, write a check dated the day after ;-)

If there is no apocalypse, JREF gets a bit richer...

[grayman]

Here's the link (http://www.artideas.com/Why2012/Why2012.html).

[Bell]

Anybody tried to de(Corn God)code that date yet?

I've got:

12 12 2012 {Corn God code} = bulls***

But I migth be a tad off?

[In My Spare Time]

Well, by my Corn dog method, I get "not bull[rule10]"

oh, and also "complete bull[rule10]"

[Tanstaafl]

I can only think of one foolproof way to debunk this: wait until 12/13/12, then note that the world is still here.


I wanted to make sure I never turn 60, so I scheduled the end of the world for the day before my 60th birthday.

I wanted to make my Resolution* a real barn burner.

*My apologies for the Star Trek reference.

[Bell]

Slight derail:

I remember a story my father told, that back in the (70s?) Earth was to be visisted by aliens on such-and-so day, and everybody was supposed to hang out white sheets from their windows to show we wanted peace with them or something. Iirc it was something that was believed worldwide.

Anyone got some info on this?

[Desktop Icon]

The Skepchick calendar hanging on my wall only goes up to 12/31/07, so I guess the show's over in about six weeks.

[Bell]

The Skepchick calendar hanging on my wall only goes up to 12/31/07, so I guess the show's over in about six weeks.

Damn! And I just thought of celebrating my birthday for the first time in some 15 years. Why can't we get one more week? God hates me :(

[gerdbonk]

C. Donald Martin (AKA Martin D. Coates) blithely plops science and spirituality into the same blender, a la (who else?) Ed Mitchell:

The Self-Aware Universe (http://www.timecrystal.org/Universe/) (includes link to The Institute of Noetic Sciences.)

Also, um... Olivia Newton-John?

Another Max that was important to the development of quantum physics was Max Born. Max Born has a famous granddaughter by the name of Olivia Newton-John. Although this is an interesting piece of trivia, it can be ignored for the purposes of this discussion.

He fails to note that the entire discussion can be ignored.

[Davidlpf]

Diagoras
In the the discussion board area of Phil Plaits somebody brings it up every once and a while. One Member has a master lists of all 2012 threads that have been there, once somebody posts something about 2012 the lists get posted. There are different versions, one the solar system is passing through the galactic equator, another states the sun will be aligned with galactic center/equator on that date, then there are the planet xers still beating that dead horse, there are the pole shifters who claim either the magnetic poles will shift that day or the entire Earth flip upside down on that date, this is to mention just a few.

[Diagoras]

Ah yes, the old pole shift idea. I remember thinking in my more naïve days that the poles were sure to shift on May 5, 2000. But for some reason I lost interest in the whole pole shift thing sometime in 1998 or 1999 so I wasn't terribly surprised when the world didn't end.

[jsfisher]

Well, by my Corn dog method, I get "not bull[rule10]"

oh, and also "complete bull[rule10]"


I think you forgot to apply the DavidJayJordan transform. Then you'd get "JREF church ends."


And your corn dog needs more mustard.

[Davidlpf]

I just saw on the discovery channel here in canada a show that pole shifting, the dates just get pushed back.

[Kochanski]

What always gets me about these things is that they all get hopped up on what they see as a significant date but completely ignore that calendars and our dating system is arbitrary.

[Cuddles]

there are the pole shifters who claim either the magnetic poles will shift that day or the entire Earth flip upside down on that date, this is to mention just a few.

This one is ridiculously popular. I was trying to do some research on actual pole shifts the other day and the vast majority of links I could find had 2012 in the title.

[sophia8]

Slight derail:

I remember a story my father told, that back in the (70s?) Earth was to be visisted by aliens on such-and-so day, and everybody was supposed to hang out white sheets from their windows to show we wanted peace with them or something. Iirc it was something that was believed worldwide.

Anyone got some info on this?I don't remember that one, but you could try looking at the various the-end-is-nigh predictions here (http://www.abhota.info/end3.htm) and see if any ring a bell.

[Björn Toulouse]

I think you forgot to apply the DavidJayJordan transform. Then you'd get "JREF church ends."


And your corn dog needs more mustard.


Puh-leeze! Don't mention that name.:D

[Elizabeth I]

Ah yes, the old pole shift idea. I remember thinking in my more naïve days that the poles were sure to shift on May 5, 2000. But for some reason I lost interest in the whole pole shift thing sometime in 1998 or 1999 so I wasn't terribly surprised when the world didn't end.

How would you KNOW? Wouldn't the magnetic field still pull the compass needle? What difference does it make? (It wouldn't make any difference to me, because I'm one of those "Go the gas station on the corner and turn right" people anyhow, not a "Go north for three and seventh-tenths miles" type.)

[Diagoras]

Well, at the time, I would have told you that the effects of the pole shift would have been blindingly obvious: volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, the inundation of pretty much every low-lying land in the world, etc. How the Earth's magnetic field was supposed to do all that I couldn't say, but that's what the psychic said would happen so I believed it.

EDIT: Here is the Skepdic article on the psychic I was following:
http://skepdic.com/scallion.html

[Hawk one]

Tresjolie9, I recommend the following reply (You can use the part in Italics as you wish, without even crediting me) every time you get such a link in your inbox:

Hello. I've found your doomsday link very interesting. I also have a very interesting link for you. Take a look at this:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/9941/index.html

Now, this webpage gives a fairly comprehensive list of doomsday predictions throughout the ages. From ancient Rome to modern day to several that are supposed to happen in the future.

I urge you to read through all of these, especially those from the modern era (1900 and forward ) - and then answer me the following question:

Were any of those people -right-?

After reading thoroughly through all of the past failures, then I suggest you read about the upcoming future predictions, and then tell me what makes all those future predictions so different from those in the past. Well, apart from not having failed yet, that is.

With regards

----------

And I suggest you read that webpage yourself. It's well-written and (intentionally) funny as hell. ;)

[Locknar]

Why 2012?

Someone gave me a link to, triple W
artideas <dot>com/Why2012/Why2012<dot>html Why 2012

It just had me laughing, but can someone please debunk this one for me.

I know some woos who are getting all worried about it, getting back to work on their Y2k shelters, and learning to fend for themselves.
I dunno...I may just stock up on bread, milk, and toilet papper just in case it happens.

[-Fran-]

Slight derail:

I remember a story my father told, that back in the (70s?) Earth was to be visisted by aliens on such-and-so day, and everybody was supposed to hang out white sheets from their windows to show we wanted peace with them or something. Iirc it was something that was believed worldwide.

Anyone got some info on this?

I don't have any information, but that's so funny how they thought that waving white sheets about would have any meaning whatsoever to an alien culture :D

[Darth Rotor]

[url=http://survive2012.com/why_2012_alignment.php]
I find it hilarious how they're predicting on that day there will be "a moment of collective spiritual birth" . . .
Yeah, but what about the afterbirth? They didn't account for that, as far as I can tell.

By the way, Darwin can't love you. He's effing dead. Love the WFN in your sig. :)

DR

[Bell]

I don't remember that one, but you could try looking at the various the-end-is-nigh predictions here (http://www.abhota.info/end3.htm) and see if any ring a bell.

Thanks! Didn't find anything resembling it though.

I don't have any information, but that's so funny how they thought that waving white sheets about would have any meaning whatsoever to an alien culture :D

Even the first alien contact back in 1898 showed that waving a white flag is useless :)

I'll have to ask my dad for more details. Maybe it was only something that happened in The Netherlands? Or maybe some Aprils fool... I remember his story from what he told me from many years ago.

[Earthborn]

I can only think of one foolproof way to debunk this: wait until 12/13/12, then note that the world is still here.I always thought this whole 2012 thing was a load of huey, but now you have me worried... I know for a fact that there is no 13th month. :)

[JanisChambers]

You know people are going to keep trying until world finnaly ends, and on that day at least .0001 percent of all those who have claimed it will be right.

[zenotter]

Most of the world will be destroyed in 2012.

The few that survive will rule the future of mandkind and limit everything, these Preists of the Temple of Syrinx will rule until 2112 when some guy finds a guitar...
Sweet! Now I have "YYZ" stuck in my head. Thanks! :D

[Cuddles]

How would you KNOW? Wouldn't the magnetic field still pull the compass needle? What difference does it make? (It wouldn't make any difference to me, because I'm one of those "Go the gas station on the corner and turn right" people anyhow, not a "Go north for three and seventh-tenths miles" type.)

You'd certainly know about it. There would be some spectacular auroras all over the world, not just at the poles. Although local variation would probably not be big enough to damage electronics, large scale things like power lines would be severly disrupted. Navigation doesn't rely on magentism so much as GPS now, but certainly some would be disrupted. Satellites could also have problems, both from induced fields and from disruption to the ionosphere, although the consequences of that would depend on which satellites were affected and could be anything from nothing at all to loss of large amounts of navigation and communication, probably tending towards the nothing end.

Of course, it depends very much on how quickly it flips. Since all our knowledge is from geological samples it is hard to put a human timescale on it. We know it is very fast geologically speaking, but there would be a huge difference between reversal over one day and reversal over a few hundred years. The former could cause serious global problems, while the latter would hardly be noticed by the general public.

[Elizabeth I]

You'd certainly know about it. There would be some spectacular auroras all over the world, not just at the poles. Although local variation would probably not be big enough to damage electronics, large scale things like power lines would be severly disrupted. Navigation doesn't rely on magentism so much as GPS now, but certainly some would be disrupted. Satellites could also have problems, both from induced fields and from disruption to the ionosphere, although the consequences of that would depend on which satellites were affected and could be anything from nothing at all to loss of large amounts of navigation and communication, probably tending towards the nothing end.

Of course, it depends very much on how quickly it flips. Since all our knowledge is from geological samples it is hard to put a human timescale on it. We know it is very fast geologically speaking, but there would be a huge difference between reversal over one day and reversal over a few hundred years. The former could cause serious global problems, while the latter would hardly be noticed by the general public.

All RI-I-I-GHT! I'm waiting for those aurorae! Very cool...if it's the end of the world, at least it will come with a great light show.

[Diagoras]

I always thought this whole 2012 thing was a load of huey, but now you have me worried... I know for a fact that there is no 13th month. :)
...lousy Smarch weather...

[ruckenheim]

They corrected the Julian calendar so Armageddon would fall on a neat looking date!

[-Fran-]

Even the first alien contact back in 1898 showed that waving a white flag is useless :)

I'll have to ask my dad for more details. Maybe it was only something that happened in The Netherlands? Or maybe some Aprils fool... I remember his story from what he told me from many years ago.

Uh, what happened in 1898? :)

Actually, that April fools-thing does ring a bell...

[Bell]

Uh, what happened in 1898? :)

That's when the 'original' invasion novel was published, H.G. Wells' The War of the Worlds.

Actually, that April fools-thing does ring a bell...

I'll ask my dad in a couple of days when I see him next.

[-Fran-]

That's when the 'original' invasion novel was published, H.G. Wells' The War of the Worlds.

Ahhh, OK, now I get it :)


I'll ask my dad in a couple of days when I see him next.

Please do, it will be interesting to hear what it was about.

[zenotter]

I remember hearing on some Xtian radio station that there was a book available listing 88 reasons why The Rapture (tm) would happen in 1988. When 1989 arrived, my disillusioning was complete. I can't see how 2012 or even tomorrow would be any different.

[Bell]

Please do, it will be interesting to hear what it was about.

Hehe, so am I... I asked him last weekend, but he did not remember it :confused:

And I am sure he told me the story back then. Oh well...

[Rasmus55]

Most of the world will be destroyed in 2012.

The few that survive will rule the future of mandkind and limit everything, these Preists of the Temple of Syrinx will rule until 2112 when some guy finds a guitar...

"A foolish toy, that helped destroy, the older race of man...Forget about your foolish whims, it doesn't fit the plan."

[Locknar]

Most of the world will be destroyed in 2012.

The few that survive will rule the future of mandkind and limit everything, these Preists of the Temple of Syrinx will rule until 2112 when some guy finds a guitar...
Rock on!

[Spektator]

Richard Noone says his calculations that the world would end on 5/5/2000 were and are correct. The stupid world just didn't cooperate:
http://www.ajc.com/search/content/metro/stories/2007/12/03/whatever1203.html

[Locknar]

Richard Noone says his calculations that the world would end on 5/5/2000 were and are correct. The stupid world just didn't cooperate:
http://www.ajc.com/search/content/metro/stories/2007/12/03/whatever1203.html
I hate when that happens...I bet the invisiable "Bigfoot" had something to do with it!

[DrewD]

I hate when that happens...I bet the invisiable "Bigfoot" had something to do with it!

Well duh. That goes without saying.

[Ashles]

So presumably anyone convinced the world will end on these dates would have no problem donating all their earthly possessions and money to the Randi Foundation. And its handsome forum posters.

[Someone]

I really will be annoyed if the world ends before pay day. I truly will be cross.

[Badger]

I don't have any information, but that's so funny how they thought that waving white sheets about would have any meaning whatsoever to an alien culture :D

That could end badly if the aliens were white, sheet-shaped beings.

[JFrankA]

Whenever I hear of a earth-ending-date, I always wonder why would nature, god, little green men, the all-powerful-seeing-eye or whatever picks a catchy date?
Recently, there was 12/31/99, 6/6/6 and now 12/12/12.

Why not "strange days"? You know, "The world will end 8/17/11", that sort of thing. :)

[-Fran-]

That could end badly if the aliens were white, sheet-shaped beings.

*LOL* That reminds me of that Gary Larson cartoon where a farmer condemns the whole world by grabbing the head of the visiting aliens' leader and shaking him by it - they had heads that looked like hands :D

[danielk]

What utter silliness. Everyone knows the real end of the world will be January 19th, 2038 at precisely 03:14:07 UTC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem). Rival that precision, psychics! Apparently, some people seem to believe it's all just Liberal propaganda (http://maul.deepsky.com/%7Emerovech/2038.html). Ha! We will see who gets the last laugh!

[JFrankA]

What utter silliness. Everyone knows the real end of the world will be January 19th, 2038 at precisely 03:14:07 UTC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem). Rival that precision, psychics! Apparently, some people seem to believe it's all just Liberal propaganda (http://maul.deepsky.com/%7Emerovech/2038.html). Ha! We will see who gets the last laugh!


Now THAT'S what I'm talking about!!! 1/19/38 at 3:14! That's a doomsday date!!! Not no mamby-pamby 12/12/12.....

:D:D

[Lensman]

Actually, the world ended on 01/01/2001 (01/01/01)- it's just that no-one noticed. ;)

[dudalb]

THe 2012 Apocalypse itself does not scare me.
But the amount of stupidity and insanity that will be displayed by fools who buy into this garbage does. I fully expect at least one case of Heaven's Gate style insanity as 2012 draws near.

[Cuddles]

Just out of interest, is anything going to happen tomorrow? Do we get a bit of a warmup, with some mild destruction and only a little bit of an end? Or will the world just wait another five years and do the whole thing straight off with no rehearsals?

[Iamme]

Whenever I hear of a earth-ending-date, I always wonder why would nature, god, little green men, the all-powerful-seeing-eye or whatever picks a catchy date?
Recently, there was 12/31/99, 6/6/6 and now 12/12/12.

Why not "strange days"? You know, "The world will end 8/17/11", that sort of thing. :)

9-1-1 was kinda catchy, too. People calling up 9-1-1 on 9-1-1.

[zenotter]

I predict that in one second, some goober will think the world will end in another second.

[Azrael 5]

What time is this end of times expected?

Is there any point cleaning the car out?

[Sasha]

Just out of interest, is anything going to happen tomorrow? Do we get a bit of a warmup, with some mild destruction and only a little bit of an end? Or will the world just wait another five years and do the whole thing straight off with no rehearsals?

You mean sort of like an Apocalypse-lite? ;)

[JFrankA]

You mean sort of like an Apocalypse-lite? ;)

:D :D

NEW APOCALYPSE-LITE!!!!!
HALF THE DESTRUCTION BUT ALL THE PANIC OF REGULAR APOCALYPSE!!!!
TRY IT TODAY!

Half price with this coupon.......

(coming in 2012, or 2038 or 2525 or tomorrow.... or....)

:D :D

[Iamme]

The messages in the song "2525" wil never see the light of day?

[Sasha]

:D :D

NEW APOCALYPSE-LITE!!!!!
HALF THE DESTRUCTION BUT ALL THE PANIC OF REGULAR APOCALYPSE!!!!
TRY IT TODAY!

Half price with this coupon.......

(coming in 2012, or 2038 or 2525 or tomorrow.... or....)

:D :D

Void where prohibited.
Children under 12 must be accompanied by parent or gardener.

The messages in the song "2525" wil never see the light of day?

Wasn't the message kind of depressing anyway? Haven't heard the song in decades, but it I seem to remember it was rather gloomy.

[Corsair 115]

Whenever I hear of a earth-ending-date, I always wonder why would nature, god, little green men, the all-powerful-seeing-eye or whatever picks a catchy date?
Recently, there was 12/31/99, 6/6/6 and now 12/12/12. Not only that, but the date picked is so symmetric in base 10 numbering. How do we know that [insert choice] doesn't prefer base 12 or base 16 numbering?

[Azrael 5]

Well I hope[insert choice]hadn't made a typo and it was 12/13 ?
I have made plans for an end of world didn't come party.:)

[quarky]

end of the world predictions are getting more accurate all the time.
anyone know the expected date of the sun's burn out?

It is quite odd to me, the extra attention people put on flashy numbers. In the u.s., where we hate the metric system, we still get all worked up about numbers that work well with 10

People get all upset with their 50th birthday and tend to ignore seven squared...a much cooler number, imho.