Octoberfest: The California Recall

[peptoabysmal]

I know the world is watching this recall process, so I've decided to create a thread and keep it alive until the recall election process is over.

To start off with, you must read the candidates personal statements posted at: http://www.voterguide.ss.ca.gov/recall/1-3-candidates.html. This is some of the best political comedy I have seen to date. Especially don't miss reading the candidate's statements for Robert Cullenbine, Lorraine (Abner Zurd) Fontanes and Trek Thunder Kelly.

The candidates who have their statements in here, with the exception of Cruz Bustamante, are the losers who don't have enough campaign money, so they gladly accept the spending limit in return for the opportunity to post a statement. Bustamante has his statement in here because he has so badly managed his personal finances, that he doesn't have the campaign money either. Just who you want to run a state with a 30 billion dollar deficit, eh?

Here's how I think things will go:

I think the recall will succeed and Bustamante will be elected governor. I am voting for Arnold, myself, The republican vote is split between Arnold and McClintock, so Bustamante will get most of the mainstream Democratic vote. I think McClintock is the better man for the job, but is not as electable as Arnold. Arnold is more of a moderate Republican, with an almost Libertarian stance. I don't think a full-on conservative Republican can win in California right now. California just isn't ready for it, the social programs and other liberal issues are just too deeply entrenched in the state. Davis is not going to win again, he has cut his own throat with both the Democrats and Republicans in this state.

edited to correct spelling mistakes

[swstephe]

I just love this one from "Trek Thunder Kelly":

Dear Voters, Please vote for me, thus breaking the Seventh Seal and incurring Armageddon. I will legalize drugs, gambling, and prostitution so they may be taxed and regulated, the funds derived would subsidize the deficit, education, and the environment. I believe in peaceful resolutions backed by a strong military; I don't care who you marry or have sex with.

http://www.trekkelly.com/race/img/pr/ttk_image_265200.jpg

[Pyrian]

swstephe:
I just love this one from "Trek Thunder Kelly":

Dear Voters, Please vote for me, thus breaking the Seventh Seal and incurring Armageddon. I will legalize drugs, gambling, and prostitution so they may be taxed and regulated, the funds derived would subsidize the deficit, education, and the environment. I believe in peaceful resolutions backed by a strong military; I don't care who you marry or have sex with.Wow. Maybe I'll vote for this one, after all.

[Roadtoad]

My suspicion is that when October 1st rolls in, and people start seeing how much more in car taxes Gray has cost them, Davis will be out of a job.

Unfortunately, I also think Pepto is right: The Republican vote will split, and we'll be stuck with Bustamante (who's worse than Davis), and John Burton as Lt. Governor, (who's worse than Bustamante).

[JAR]

I want Conan the Barbarian to be governor of California. I'm voting for Arnold.

[peptoabysmal]

The saga continues...

Along with Clinton, Howard Dean is coming to California to support the Democratic party line which is now "No on the recall, Yes on Bustamante". I've also heard a rumor that Rev. Jesse Jackson is going to be in California, supporting this same theme.

Should be quite a show, if nothing else :D

I would imagine that Pres. Bush would like nothing more than for Davis to beat the recall, and the Democratic hopefuls to get sucked down the drain along with Davis and California.

[Silicon]

My vote is for Punk singer Jack Grisham from TSoL!

http://www.grishamforgovernor.com/


Yeah, the voter information packet is a laugh riot. But I was sad that not Angelyne, nor Gallagher, NOR Gary Coleman had a statement in there.

But Flynt's was awesome "I took a bullet for Freedom of Speech."

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Silicon
My vote is for Punk singer Jack Grisham from TSoL!

http://www.grishamforgovernor.com/


Yeah, the voter information packet is a laugh riot. But I was sad that not Angelyne, nor Gallagher, NOR Gary Coleman had a statement in there.

But Flynt's was awesome "I took a bullet for Freedom of Speech."

LOL, sounds as good as anybody right now. The ones who put a statement had to limit campaign spending, not a problem if you don't have the money.

I can't help but think that the networks missed a great opportunity for a reality show. Follow the candidates on the campaign trail or some such. Maybe have a Fear Factor type of contest between Gary Coleman and David Laughing Horse Robinson, for example.


http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/Arnold/CArecall/1/keefe.gif

[peptoabysmal]

There is already another thread started on this subject here (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27099). I have set out to keep this thread going until the recall election is over, but I may give up on it if it keeps going this way.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has apparently decided that the voting machine which elected Davis to Governor of California aren't good enough to use in the recall election. The court wants to suspend the recall election until March 2, 2004!

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals is known to be a very liberal court (remember that thing about the pledge of allegiance being unconstitutional?). I've heard that most of the judges in this court were appointed by Democratic party members.

Here's a story on this travesty. (http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/politics/recall/story/999303p-7017766c.html)

The Sacramento Bee is known in my area for being a newspaper with a liberal / Democrat agenda, so for them to call someone liberal... well...

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
There is already another thread started on this subject here (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27099). I have set out to keep this thread going until the recall election is over, but I may give up on it if it keeps going this way.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has apparently decided that the voting machine which elected Davis to Governor of California aren't good enough to use in the recall election. The court wants to suspend the recall election until March 2, 2004!

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals is known to be a very liberal court (remember that thing about the pledge of allegiance being unconstitutional?). I've heard that most of the judges in this court were appointed by Democratic party members.

Here's a story on this travesty. (http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/politics/recall/story/999303p-7017766c.html)

The Sacramento Bee is known in my area for being a newspaper with a liberal / Democrat agenda, so for them to call someone liberal... well...

The Sacramento Bee is a rag. It is the biggest collection of horesh** published today. The only redeeming thing it has is Dan Walters and Dear Abby. (And I can get DA from Yahoo!)

Notice that in this, there's no mention of what it's going to cost the State's taxpayers...

(Yo, Pepto... You're LOCAL? Geez, PM me with you contact info...!)

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Roadtoad


The Sacramento Bee is a rag. It is the biggest collection of horesh** published today. The only redeeming thing it has is Dan Walters and Dear Abby. (And I can get DA from Yahoo!)

Notice that in this, there's no mention of what it's going to cost the State's taxpayers...

(Yo, Pepto... You're LOCAL? Geez, PM me with you contact info...!)

LOL, wouldn't that be funny if we worked together or something?

[peptoabysmal]

My wife used to work in the capitol, and she says Bustamante was notorious for showing up late. Looks like it caught up with him.


Bustamante spent the weekend out of state raising money. Mechanical problems with his charter plane caused him to arrive too late in Orange County Sunday to receive an endorsement from the Mexican American Political Association, said his spokesman Luis Vizcaino.

The group's president, Nativo Lopez, said rules prohibited the organization from endorsing the lieutenant governor's "No on Recall, Yes on Bustamante" strategy unless he appeared in person to request the association's support.

"I'm a supporter of Bustamante but rules are rules," Lopez said.


p.s. Yes, the Bee *is* a rag, but it's a left-leaning rag, so no one can accuse me of using a right-wing news source :D

[peptoabysmal]

This just keeps getting better and better LOL. :roll:

On the 9th Circuit Court's decision to delay the election, due to the type of voting machines used (Bush vs. Gore argument), here's a little text byte that I think represents the difference between the liberal and conservative concerns on this election:


Independent candidate Arianna Huffington praised the decision, calling voter disenfranchisement “the dirty little secret of American politics.” McClintock called it an “outrageous decision” by a court that is the “laughingstock” of the federal judiciary because it is the nation’s most-reversed federal appeals court.


Recall backers vow to fight delay (http://www.msnbc.com/news/945950.asp?0cv=CB10#BODY)

[Brown]

As I mentioned in another thread, I think that what the Ninth Circuit is doing with the Equal Protection Clause stinks.

But the Ninth Circuit is following what the Supreme Court did in Bush vs. Gore, and that really stunk.

It is curious that some of those who had no problem with what the Supreme Court did for Bush now have serious problems with what the Ninth Circuit is doing.

Hypocrites.

This isn't a question of liberal vs. conservative. It's a question of having the same rules apply to everyone. The Supreme Court, in deciding in Bush's favor, concluded that he had a valid gripe under the Equal Protection Clause. Even though the Supreme Court's actions were wrong in many respects from a legal standpoint, the Ninth Circuit has to follow what the Supreme Court decided in Bush vs. Gore.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Brown
As I mentioned in another thread, I think that what the Ninth Circuit is doing with the Equal Protection Clause stinks.

But the Ninth Circuit is following what the Supreme Court did in Bush vs. Gore, and that really stunk.

It is curious that some of those who had no problem with what the Supreme Court did for Bush now have serious problems with what the Ninth Circuit is doing.

Hypocrites.

This isn't a question of liberal vs. conservative. It's a question of having the same rules apply to everyone. The Supreme Court, in deciding in Bush's favor, concluded that he had a valid gripe under the Equal Protection Clause. Even though the Supreme Court's actions were wrong in many respects from a legal standpoint, the Ninth Circuit has to follow what the Supreme Court decided in Bush vs. Gore.

Davis didn't have any problem using those machines to get elected to a second term after the Bush vs. Gore decision. But now those machines aren't good enough for the recall election. You are right - hypocrites.

[Brown]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
Davis didn't have any problem using those machines to get elected to a second term after the Bush vs. Gore decision. But now those machines aren't good enough for the recall election. You are right - hypocrites. Davis is not a party to the Ninth Circuit case, so the charge against him personally is questionable at this time.

Nevertheless, I submit that we have not yet seen the extent to which people can be hypocritical about this voting issue. The Supreme Court, in its eagerness to decide the election in Bush's favor, made a hell of a mess. The Supreme Court basically gave any person (whether a voter or not!) the right to challenge voting procedures in federal court on Equal Protection grounds, without a showing of actual discrimination or discriminatory purpose.

As a result, we can expect many of our future elections to be challenged in federal court. California is just the start. Soon, many other states' voting methods will be in question. And the hypocrites are just getting warmed up. They will condemn the federal courts if their favored candidate is the one who stands to lose, and they will praise the federal courts if their favored candidate stands to win.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Brown
Davis is not a party to the Ninth Circuit case, so the charge against him personally is questionable at this time.

Nevertheless, I submit that we have not yet seen the extent to which people can be hypocritical about this voting issue. The Supreme Court, in its eagerness to decide the election in Bush's favor, made a hell of a mess. The Supreme Court basically gave any person (whether a voter or not!) the right to challenge voting procedures in federal court on Equal Protection grounds, without a showing of actual discrimination or discriminatory purpose.

As a result, we can expect many of our future elections to be challenged in federal court. California is just the start. Soon, many other states' voting methods will be in question. And the hypocrites are just getting warmed up. They will condemn the federal courts if their favored candidate is the one who stands to lose, and they will praise the federal courts if their favored candidate stands to win.

Davis is not a direct party to this case; he has his own case pending. What is the ACLU's great interest in keeping Davis? I say their agenda must be, at the least, very similar.

You're right about Equal Protection being a big squirming can of maggots:

Davis, ACLU sue over California recall vote (http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/politics/recall/story/965797p-6747999c.html)

[peptoabysmal]

It's aliiiive.

Hi,

Just thought I'd bump this thread to remind you of what a bunch of thugs currently runs the state of California.

Cruz Bustamante blocked from funding recall run with old donations (http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/politics/recall/story/1006657p-7067997c.html)

[Silicon]

If money = speech (according to the Supreme Court), all he wants is his first amendment rights!


From the article you linked to:

The judge noted his order contradicts an opinion by the Fair Political Practices Commission, the state's campaign spending watchdog.

Bustamante campaign consultant Richie Ross said the lieutenant governor has been following the commission's advice.



So he's FOLLOWING the commission's advice, this judge contradicts it, and you label Bustamante a thug.



Let's get this election over with. I hope the 9th Circuit decides to let the election happen in 2 weeks.

Looks like Davis will stay in anyway, and this whole thing will just be a waste of Taxpayer money. Like we didn't know that going in.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Silicon
If money = speech (according to the Supreme Court), all he wants is his first amendment rights!


From the article you linked to:


So he's FOLLOWING the commission's advice, this judge contradicts it, and you label Bustamante a thug.


According to his campaign manager, he's an angel.


Let's get this election over with. I hope the 9th Circuit decides to let the election happen in 2 weeks.

Looks like Davis will stay in anyway, and this whole thing will just be a waste of Taxpayer money. Like we didn't know that going in.

Yes, it's a done deal and it will be a waste if either Davis or Bustamante end up as governor when this is over. Indian gaming interests (which are becoming the state's largest industry) don't have to pay taxes and are replacing the labor lobbies as the state's most poowerful political entity. Both Bustamante and McClintock are taking campaign money from Indian gaming. Ahnold is the only one who is not owing them something.

[peptoabysmal]

Looks like the 11 judge panel overturned the decision of the three judge panel. Their reason?


The ruling reinstated a ruling by a U.S. district judge who refused to postpone the election. The judges based their decision on the state’s constitution, not on any precedent set by Bush v. Gore, which was the basis for the smaller panel’s decision. Bush v. Gore related to the disputed vote results in Florida in the 2000 presidential election.


California recall vote back on track (http://www.msnbc.com/news/945950.asp)

[peptoabysmal]

I watched the candidates debate on TV tonight. Well, a portion of it, anyway. I get home too late to have caught it all. I do have it recorded and will watch it later.

I've got to say that they should syndicate this show. It was the funniest thing I've seen on TV in a long time!

From what I saw of the debate, I'd have to say McClintock was the winner of the debate, with Arnold coming in a close second. Bustamante was, well, pitiful. What's-her-name (Arianna Huff 'N' Puff) was hilarious. I deducted points from Arnold for even responding to her, as she doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected.

[peptoabysmal]

The G.O.P. is starting to back Arnold (http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/politics/recall/story/1010031p-7091541c.html)

Meanwhile, Davis is signing bills left and right to get as many votes as possible.

Am I good or what?

[BroodingSkill]

Arianna Huffington ( I don't care if its spelled right) is speaking at my state college tomorrow(Fri) I'm gonna try and catch it during a break between classes.

Oh and I really hate her. The only thing I've heard from her is bashing everyone else. Though according to the school newspaper she wants to "help education" and get rid of the tuition increase, which is due that very day by the way.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by BroodingSkill
Arianna Huffington ( I don't care if its spelled right) is speaking at my state college tomorrow(Fri) I'm gonna try and catch it during a break between classes.

Oh and I really hate her. The only thing I've heard from her is bashing everyone else. Though according to the school newspaper she wants to "help education" and get rid of the tuition increase, which is due that very day by the way.

This is amazing, everyone I've talked to about the debate hates her. Let me know what you thought of her speech, if you go, please. I thought she was kind of funny, but too focused on the Bush administration to do any good for California.

[Silicon]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal

From what I saw of the debate, I'd have to say McClintock was the winner of the debate, with Arnold coming in a close second. Bustamante was, well, pitiful. What's-her-name (Arianna Huff 'N' Puff) was hilarious. I deducted points from Arnold for even responding to her, as she doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected.


Pepto, I almost agree with you there, which is a bit frightening for me!

I think that McClintock won the debate as well, but he has the same snowball's chance that Arianna has. I though McClintock was WAY ahead of everyone else in being a grown-up and being very informed on the issues at hand.

Next in the informed ranking, I'd put Bustamante. Not because he seems like he's actually going to do anything about the problems, but he did seem informed (he at least knew that approved bond money for prisons can't just go to schools). He at least had the bellz to say he'd raise taxes, although those are the least objectionable taxes, the sin taxes.


Next I'd put Arnold. He really didn't seem to have any idea what to do. He wants to somehow tax the Indian tribes. No clue as to how he gets around the Sovernigity issues there. No way will they work with him after he's villified them. They are his enemy, and if he wins, they will multi-million dollar bankroll HIS recall. Mark my word on that one. He wants to get rid of workers comp fraud. Don't we all? Shouldn't have responded to Arianna. Arianna was there for that purpose and that alone, I wouldn't have engaged her, especially not at that level.


Next, I'd put Arianna. She seemed like a spoiler, just there to be a moderator that didn't have to be fair. She acted like she was on Politically Incorrect. But in the list of people and their knowlege of the issues, she had to fall somewhere.

Last I'd put the Green guy. He was just in there to make the Democrats not look like the pro-tax guys. Nobody will go for his ideas. He has less of a chance than Arianna.


Here's the deal, EVERYONE seemed to have some MAGIC solution to find some hidden money, so that they could balance the budget without raising taxes or making cuts. Arianna says close loopholes. Arnie says go after fraud and tax indians. McClintock says "Use Arizona's workers' comp rates". Free lunches, all of them, and a pre-election fib as big as Davis's was. They won't find enough in there, and they CERTAINLY won't get any of that money until 1 or 2 years from now, when they won't be Govenor anymore. How do we get the money NOW?!?! No answer. So more cuts are coming, and just as big as the cuts Davis has made.

Well, except Busta and Greenie. They say that raising taxes will do it. It WILL do it. But will it also stall the economy? Possibly.

But a poorly educated workforce will also stall the economy.

No doubt about it, the budget's a mess, and it's these jokers and jokers like them that did it. These people who don't want to make enemies, so they come up with magic plans to find hidden money without pissing anyone off, and without cutting anything.

It's all disgusting.

[BroodingSkill]

Well, unfortunatly (fortunatly) I didn't get to see her, she hadn't even started her speech before I had to go to class. I know by the school papers' article, she was gonna talk about support for education(imagine that) and getting rid of the need for us poor students to pay more fee increases, but not one word about how she would fix the state deficit. Oh and she also had some idea about a "clean election" fund paid for by petrolem taxes, so election campaigns would be special interest free. Any rate I got to see her walk by, whopee!. The Capoeria performers that started performing during my break were a lot more interesting anyway.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by BroodingSkill
Well, unfortunatly (fortunatly) I didn't get to see her, she hadn't even started her speech before I had to go to class. I know by the school papers' article, she was gonna talk about support for education(imagine that) and getting rid of the need for us poor students to pay more fee increases, but not one word about how she would fix the state deficit. Oh and she also had some idea about a "clean election" fund paid for by petrolem taxes, so election campaigns would be special interest free. Any rate I got to see her walk by, whopee!. The Capoeria performers that started performing during my break were a lot more interesting anyway.

Glad you enjoyed the performers. Thanks for checking back.

This election just keeps getting more and more interesting:


"Right here, right now, I challenge him to a debate," Davis said at a rally aimed it building support among women. He accused Schwarzenegger of distorting his record on such issues as taxes, health care and jobs and of misstating facts about California's problems.


Story (http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/politics/recall/story/1011146p-7099867c.html)

[Roadtoad]

As usual, Gray decided to shoot himself in the foot with that stupid challenge. As it stands, all anyone needs to do is take a long look at how staff members of his own administration benefitted from owning stock in Enron and other energy companies during the power crisis in this state.

Yup, I think Arnie should take him up on it. I think ol' Cruz ought to show up, too. Explain to the state's voters about how he can't obey a lawful court order to return the money he took from the San Miguel Indians to pay for his anti-Prop 54 ads, (which are nothing more than Bustamante ads in a thin disguise), and just where the hell HE was when Davis was spending the state into oblivion.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Silicon

Pepto, I almost agree with you there, which is a bit frightening for me!


LOL, I'm not quite the right wing fundie you might think I am.


I think that McClintock won the debate as well, but he has the same snowball's chance that Arianna has. I though McClintock was WAY ahead of everyone else in being a grown-up and being very informed on the issues at hand.

Next in the informed ranking, I'd put Bustamante. Not because he seems like he's actually going to do anything about the problems, but he did seem informed (he at least knew that approved bond money for prisons can't just go to schools). He at least had the bellz to say he'd raise taxes, although those are the least objectionable taxes, the sin taxes.


I find it interesting that they are both funded by Indian Gaming. The Indian Gaming Commission is betting on both teams.


Next I'd put Arnold. He really didn't seem to have any idea what to do. He wants to somehow tax the Indian tribes. No clue as to how he gets around the Sovernigity issues there. No way will they work with him after he's villified them. They are his enemy, and if he wins, they will multi-million dollar bankroll HIS recall. Mark my word on that one. He wants to get rid of workers comp fraud. Don't we all? Shouldn't have responded to Arianna. Arianna was there for that purpose and that alone, I wouldn't have engaged her, especially not at that level.

Agreed. Ahnold != Einstein. He's the only chance the Republicans have to get a man in office right now.


Next, I'd put Arianna. She seemed like a spoiler, just there to be a moderator that didn't have to be fair. She acted like she was on Politically Incorrect. But in the list of people and their knowlege of the issues, she had to fall somewhere.

She tried to make an issue of how Arnold treats women. The odd thing is that I have heard the strongest dislike reactions to her from women.


Last I'd put the Green guy. He was just in there to make the Democrats not look like the pro-tax guys. Nobody will go for his ideas. He has less of a chance than Arianna.

Green, green, the grass is green, on the far side of the hill...


Here's the deal, EVERYONE seemed to have some MAGIC solution to find some hidden money, so that they could balance the budget without raising taxes or making cuts. Arianna says close loopholes. Arnie says go after fraud and tax indians. McClintock says "Use Arizona's workers' comp rates". Free lunches, all of them, and a pre-election fib as big as Davis's was. They won't find enough in there, and they CERTAINLY won't get any of that money until 1 or 2 years from now, when they won't be Govenor anymore. How do we get the money NOW?!?! No answer. So more cuts are coming, and just as big as the cuts Davis has made.

Hey, between this and kissing babies, what else do politicians do when running for office?


Well, except Busta and Greenie. They say that raising taxes will do it. It WILL do it. But will it also stall the economy? Possibly.

It hasn't worked so far, so let's do it some more! You know how it is when you get a better job? You buy a house and a new car and so on, pretty soon you have less of your paycheck to spend than before. Over taxation merely leads to over spending.


But a poorly educated workforce will also stall the economy.

Don't get me started on California's education system. Oh, you did... The lions share of the California budget goes to K - 12 education and free lunch programs. Basically, the state has become a free baby-sitter for the poor, until their children are old enough to drop out of high school and get arrested. Then we support them in prison. Meanwhile, we keep raising tuition fees for college and providing less service for college students in overcrowded classes. :mad:


No doubt about it, the budget's a mess, and it's these jokers and jokers like them that did it. These people who don't want to make enemies, so they come up with magic plans to find hidden money without pissing anyone off, and without cutting anything.

It's all disgusting.

Agreed.

edited to correct a VB tag

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Roadtoad
As usual, Gray decided to shoot himself in the foot with that stupid challenge. As it stands, all anyone needs to do is take a long look at how staff members of his own administration benefitted from owning stock in Enron and other energy companies during the power crisis in this state.

Yup, I think Arnie should take him up on it. I think ol' Cruz ought to show up, too. Explain to the state's voters about how he can't obey a lawful court order to return the money he took from the San Miguel Indians to pay for his anti-Prop 54 ads, (which are nothing more than Bustamante ads in a thin disguise), and just where the hell HE was when Davis was spending the state into oblivion.

Hi RT! Sorry I haven't got back to you yet. Things have been ultra busy this last week. (I know, but you still post here! Well, we all have our little addictions :D).

I'm not really sure Arnie would do all that well in a debate with Davis. I hate Davis, but to give credit where it is due, he is a master politician.

Arnold probably stands a better chance by ignoring him. Something like, "Why should I debate the man who's on his way out?".

[Silicon]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
Agreed. Ahnold != Einstein. He's the only chance the Republicans have to get a man in office right now.


Yeah, but if he's a Republican in name only, what do they really win?

Especially when he raises taxes, which even you know he's going to do. He's not going to be popular.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Silicon


Yeah, but if he's a Republican in name only, what do they really win?

Especially when he raises taxes, which even you know he's going to do. He's not going to be popular.

What do they win? California might get a two party system again, for starters. What you we are experiencing in California right now is the direct result of one party being dominant for far too long.

Arnold has no political experience, just experience being successful. Who knows? He just might do some good. He has got to be better than Bustamante who will raise taxes and who will not even try to tax Indian Gaming. Now I'm just as guilty as any other white guy of almost driving the Indians into extinction, but is making a few of them wealthy while making the state look like a cheap-o version of Reno, Nevada really the way to go? I'd rather see Davis stay in than to have Bustamente running things.

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
Hey, between this and kissing babies, what else do politicians do when running for office?

They kiss the @$$es of the special interests... :D

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Roadtoad


They kiss the @$$es of the special interests... :D

LOL

And a little "insider trading" wouldn't surprise me a bit, either.

[Silicon]

The fact that California is a one-party state is a direct result of the Republican platform, in my view. It's just not a platform that sits well on tons of issues that Californians are about. Off-shore drilling, health care, guns, abortion, gay rights, etc. Even the low-tax righties are against half those platform issues. But it's an embarrasment to the national republican platform, because it's so absolutist, and moralistic. I think the analogy of the blue-dog democrat has got to have take root in California if they ever want to win an election here.

And really, how many years has it been since we've had a republican in the govenor's mansion? You say far too long? It's only been 1 term and 1 year. Before that it was Pete (run against the mexicans) Wilson, and before that Deukmejian. They had a longer run than Davis has had, 16 years of straight Republicans.

Besides, the 1 party problem isn't the Governor's mansion anyway. It's that crazy legislature. It always HAS been that crazy legislature.


Ah what the hell. I wanted Riordan anyway. He was a good centrist Republican, the only republican who spoke up against 187 because he didn't think that taking health care away from children was a good idea, no matter who their parents are. That took balls. He was a good leader who helped LA. I respect him. Too bad Arnie ran instead of him. And before that, we got Simon instead of him.

I blame the republican party. They don't know a decent candidate when they see it.

[davefoc]

I'm a bit burned out on this whole thing. California is in serious trouble. The workers comp rate in my brother's furniture factory is scheduled to go to 43 cents on the dollar from 27 cents on the dollar next year. This will probably spell the end of furniture manufacturing in California, not to mention having a similar effect on almost all manufacturing in California.

Yet the Democrats are continuing to push the notion that this is just a normal Democrats versus Republican dispute and their guy is really not that bad. Their guy is a disaster, between the budget, the electrical crisis and workers comp Davis has overseen what must be the most inept state government in the history of the republic. This reminds me of the time the Democratic establishment pushed for the election of their guy for Sheriff of Los Angeles despite the fact that the guy was obviously dieing. It was also interesting to note the guy had fought tooth and nail the hiring of female officers. But the best part was the guy actually died before the election and the Democratic establishment kept pushing for his election. Nice touch.

People might check out Huffington's site for a little different perspective on the whole thing.
http://www.votearianna.com/

Be sure to checkout the special interest brothel movie.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Silicon
The fact that California is a one-party state is a direct result of the Republican platform, in my view. It's just not a platform that sits well on tons of issues that Californians are about. Off-shore drilling, health care, guns, abortion, gay rights, etc. Even the low-tax righties are against half those platform issues. But it's an embarrasment to the national republican platform, because it's so absolutist, and moralistic. I think the analogy of the blue-dog democrat has got to have take root in California if they ever want to win an election here.

And really, how many years has it been since we've had a republican in the govenor's mansion? You say far too long? It's only been 1 term and 1 year. Before that it was Pete (run against the mexicans) Wilson, and before that Deukmejian. They had a longer run than Davis has had, 16 years of straight Republicans.

Besides, the 1 party problem isn't the Governor's mansion anyway. It's that crazy legislature. It always HAS been that crazy legislature.


Ah what the hell. I wanted Riordan anyway. He was a good centrist Republican, the only republican who spoke up against 187 because he didn't think that taking health care away from children was a good idea, no matter who their parents are. That took balls. He was a good leader who helped LA. I respect him. Too bad Arnie ran instead of him. And before that, we got Simon instead of him.

I blame the republican party. They don't know a decent candidate when they see it.

You're right. I guess it just seems like Davis' term has been forever.

And that legislature - sheeesh!

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by davefoc
I'm a bit burned out on this whole thing. California is in serious trouble. The workers comp rate in my brother's furniture factory is scheduled to go to 43 cents on the dollar from 27 cents on the dollar next year. This will probably spell the end of furniture manufacturing in California, not to mention having a similar effect on almost all manufacturing in California.

Yet the Democrats are continuing to push the notion that this is just a normal Democrats versus Republican dispute and their guy is really not that bad. Their guy is a disaster, between the budget, the electrical crisis and workers comp Davis has overseen what must be the most inept state government in the history of the republic. This reminds me of the time the Democratic establishment pushed for the election of their guy for Sheriff of Los Angeles despite the fact that the guy was obviously dieing. It was also interesting to note the guy had fought tooth and nail the hiring of female officers. But the best part was the guy actually died before the election and the Democratic establishment kept pushing for his election. Nice touch.

People might check out Huffington's site for a little different perspective on the whole thing.
http://www.votearianna.com/

Be sure to checkout the special interest brothel movie.

LOL
I guess Dems will even vote for a yellow, dead dog!

[BroodingSkill]

Well Huffington is out of the race as of today((9/30) and says she will dedicate herself to helping Davis defeat the recall in the remaining days. What a hypocrite she is.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by BroodingSkill
Well Huffington is out of the race as of today((9/30) and says she will dedicate herself to helping Davis defeat the recall in the remaining days. What a hypocrite she is.

If this has any effect whatsoever on the recall, I would think that it would hurt Davis.

[peptoabysmal]

Ohhhh crystal balls....

Here is my "psychic" prediction: Ahnold will be Governator of California.

The Democrats are starting to claw at each other now:
Bustamante seeks to distance himself from Davis (http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/politics/recall/story/1017540p-7140933c.html)

[BroodingSkill]

5 days to go and the ads are getting dirtier. Now Arnold is been harrassing women on movie sets since the 70's and one negative ad only manages to slam his voting record which is probably not much worse then every other voter in the country. None of that makes him any worse than any other politician. He more than likely will be the govenator and we shall see if he can clean up the state or not.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by BroodingSkill
5 days to go and the ads are getting dirtier. Now Arnold is been harrassing women on movie sets since the 70's and one negative ad only manages to slam his voting record which is probably not much worse then every other voter in the country. None of that makes him any worse than any other politician. He more than likely will be the govenator and we shall see if he can clean up the state or not.

Hey, I just found one more reason to vote for Arnold, look who's ganging up on him:


A coalition of women's groups met at the Feminist Majority offices here to unveil an anti-Schwarzenegger ad campaign and introduce a former TV network intern who said the gubernatorial candidate groped her when she showed him around a sound stage 25 years ago.


Story (http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/politics/recall/story/1018140p-7148738c.html)

[BroodingSkill]

Great post, I find the timing of all this suspicious, but not unexpected considering how close we are to the 7th. I thought this comment from the article was amusing.

"On Friday, the second day of his four-day bus tour of the state, as more women came forward to claim sexual misconduct, the actor ignored the allegations, and some his supporters laughed them off.

"He can grope me," one woman shouted at a campaign stop in Santa Clarita. Some supporters held signs reading: "Gray Davis groped me ... While reaching for my wallet."

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by BroodingSkill
"He can grope me," one woman shouted at a campaign stop in Santa Clarita. Some supporters held signs reading: "Gray Davis groped me ... While reaching for my wallet."

LOL

Cost of a dirty campaign, 8 million dollars, getting rid of Davis, priceless.

[Silicon]

One thing you just gotta respect, the majesty of the American electoral process!

:rolleyes:


I'm disgusted by the whole thing. I'll go vote against the recall, and maybe for my friend Jack Grisham (TSoL!)... or maybe for Larry Flynt or Angelyne.

Arnold wouldn't debate the issues, he kept falling back on his personality.

"I'm more personable than Davis, so I'll be able to charm those indians into letting us tax them..."

So they attack his personality, and it's personal attack-negative city around here.

Hitler? That doesn't pass the smell-test, it backfires and sounds like dirty politics, nothing but a smear. That ruined any credibility of any other personal issues in my book. I don't care if they say Arnold rapes goats, I won't believe them.

I still don't want him to be Governor, because he hasn't convinced me he knows what the hell he's doing. I'd rather have McClintock, believe it or not.

The state is falling apart. Now's not the time for an amateur.

Why the F didn't Riordan run?

:mad:

[peptoabysmal]

Maybe Riordan wants a chance in the next real election. If Riordan lost this election, he could likely kiss his hopes of becoming governor goodbye forever. I like McClintock, except he is backed by too many right-wing pro-lifers and he is just too conservative to get elected in California right now. I don't like that McClintock is also backed by Indian gaming. I have extereme doubts about how much of the Indian gaming money actually goes to help actual Native Americans. All of the other states which have Indian Gaming tax those casinos. We don't in California, because the politicians have been paid to keep that from happening.

Your choice really is between a man (Ahnold) with no experience and you don't know how well he can handle the state, or one of two men (Davis or Bustamante) who have shown that without a doubt they can not handle the state's problems, except to make them worse.

So will you choose the known incompetents or an unknown?

If nothing else good comes from this recall election, I think that at least it has ignited interest in the political process for some young people who last year couldn't give a rat's behind about politics.

[davefoc]

Wow,
Guess who the Orange County Weekly is supporting for Governor? For those of you who aren't familiar with the OCweekly it is an unrelentingly liberal, leftist paper that gets a lot of advertising from counter culture rock clubs, strip joints, and cosmetic surgeons. Never once have I ever read an article that could remotely be seen as conservative or pro-establishment in their newsapaper (I'm a fairly regular reader).

So who are they supporting in their cover page article. Click here to find out:

http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/04/05/cover-moxley.php

[Clancie]

Wow, davefoc.

Is this an official endorsement or an op/ed piece? I can't really tell.

To be honest, I'm disgusted with Davis at the moment (his quoted comment today on CNN that he abhors Nazism and "anyone who feels otherwise isn't an American". Without a doubt, he should have dismissed the Nazi allegations and stuck with harrassment. He took an easy shot at AS and imo it was totally unfair--as was the condemnation today by various groups. There is -so- not enough evidence that he is a Nazi sympathizer. It is wrong to take advantage of "the moment" especially as, as you and I agree, it only distracts from real and serious charges against him regarding treatment of women)

As for Bustamante...I have yet to hear any specifics from hiim.

Schwarzenegger's lack of experience, apparent lack of intellect, and abusive actions bother me. He's offered no plan for our problems either. (Roll back of the license tax increase? How will that help? :confused: )

On the other hand, while disagreeing with his politics, I've been impressed by McClintock's specifics in the debate and in his commercials.

And yet....Here's a clip from your article about voting for McClintock....
From OC Weekly

If any of the candidates is a likely target for the usual Democratic fear-campaign strategy, it’s McClintock.

He’s pro-gun, anti-choice, anti-gay rights and a proponent of environmental regulatory rollbacks. He hates union power, campaign-finance reform, judges who protect the rights of suspects and illegal immigration.

He craves tort reform for big business and more nuclear power plants. If he won, Sacramento would be less involved in local affairs. He favors school vouchers and wants to make sure everyone utters the words "under God" when they recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

He authored California’s lethal-injection law for death-penalty convicts. He is Barry Goldwater, circa 1964.
Um....Know anything about Gary Coleman? :rolleyes:

What a mess....

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Clancie

Um....Know anything about Gary Coleman? :rolleyes:

What a mess....

He's running on a short platform :cool:

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by davefoc
Wow,
Guess who the Orange County Weekly is supporting for Governor? For those of you who aren't familiar with the OCweekly it is an unrelentingly liberal, leftist paper that gets a lot of advertising from counter culture rock clubs, strip joints, and cosmetic surgeons. Never once have I ever read an article that could remotely be seen as conservative or pro-establishment in their newsapaper (I'm a fairly regular reader).

So who are they supporting in their cover page article. Click here to find out:

http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/04/05/cover-moxley.php

Nice article. If I start seeing more libs talk like this, I might admit that Bush lied about WMD's.

[davefoc]

The paragraphs below more or less show the tone of the article. When I saw the cover I expected some sort of sarcastic attack on the recall or the Republicans. It didn't really occur to me that the OC Weekly could actually support McClintock. Maybe it's just a ploy to take some votes away from Schwarzenegger, but it is hard to believe that article could have this sincere a tone if the author was that cynical.

I’m hardly a conservative, but the Democrats—rulers of all three branches of state government for the past four years—have proven themselves unwilling to control taxes, spending and bureaucratic growth. After four years of Davis, California’s $10 billion surplus became a $38 billion deficit last fiscal year. For those of you counting, that’s a $48,000,000,000 flip. Note the zeroes: it’s enough money to fund several small- and medium-sized federal agencies for the next 50 years.

Is there reason for alarm? Not, apparently, if you’re Davis or his Democratic allies in the legislature. They’ve spent like whiskey-drunk business guys on an expense-account trip to Vegas. While California’s population rose 21 percent during the Davis era, the Democrats raised state spending by a whopping 40 percent. They’ve added 44,000 new public employees to the state payroll and, in the midst of the current fiscal crisis, strapped taxpayers with an additional $700 million per year in ridiculously generous public-employee pension perks. I could go on, but you get the point.

This hemorrhaging of public funds coupled with a continuous demand for new tax revenue while government services are routinely slashed leads me to an observation sure to offend some of my fellow progressives. Sometimes the best endorsement is inadvertent. Ask Sacramento Democrats what they think of McClintock. They’ll likely tell you the last man they want holding the veto pen to their spending habits is the relentlessly frugal 47-year-old conservative from Thousand Oaks. At the moment, that’s good enough for me.

[peptoabysmal]

Honestly, I have to say I was most impressed by what's his name, the Green party candidate.

Realistically, it's still a choice between Davis, Mini-Davis or Arnold.
I'd rather give Arnold the chance and be uncertain, than give Davis or Bustamante the chance and be absolutely certain that California's economy will get worse.

[Silicon]

California's economy is doing better than the national average. That's a fact.

The downturn has more to do with the dot.bomb fiasco than anything Davis did.

Whoever's in that fancy chair when the economy rebounds will get the credit, whoever it is.

How much monetary policy does the Governor set anyway? Most of the budget is automatically set because of year after year of stupid voter initiatives, couple that with prop 13 not allowing for any raising of taxes, and the fact that you need a supermajority in the legislature to pass a budget (which means that the minority republicans have veto ability), gets us into our current situation.

So if the economy is going back up, Schwarzenneggar can be the guy to take the credit (it's already going back up, thanks to Bush?!?!).

It's the same old crap at the state and federal level. Everyone's ready to take credit for the upturns, but lay blame on the other guys for the downturns.

The economy tanked when Bush and Davis were in office. But we blame Davis and not Bush?

The economy will go back up when Howard Dean is elected, and the Dems will praise him, even though it was going back up while Bush was in office. I'm sure the Republicans will credit Arnold's stewardship of California for the rebound.

But the REAL culprit, as everyone knows, was irrational exhuberance, and revisionist history.

[a_unique_person]

Can you just get this damm thing over and done with?

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Silicon
California's economy is doing better than the national average. That's a fact.

The downturn has more to do with the dot.bomb fiasco than anything Davis did.

Whoever's in that fancy chair when the economy rebounds will get the credit, whoever it is.

How much monetary policy does the Governor set anyway? Most of the budget is automatically set because of year after year of stupid voter initiatives, couple that with prop 13 not allowing for any raising of taxes, and the fact that you need a supermajority in the legislature to pass a budget (which means that the minority republicans have veto ability), gets us into our current situation.

So if the economy is going back up, Schwarzenneggar can be the guy to take the credit (it's already going back up, thanks to Bush?!?!).

It's the same old crap at the state and federal level. Everyone's ready to take credit for the upturns, but lay blame on the other guys for the downturns.

The economy tanked when Bush and Davis were in office. But we blame Davis and not Bush?

The economy will go back up when Howard Dean is elected, and the Dems will praise him, even though it was going back up while Bush was in office. I'm sure the Republicans will credit Arnold's stewardship of California for the rebound.

But the REAL culprit, as everyone knows, was irrational exhuberance, and revisionist history.

There's been quite a lot said about Bush and the economy. For instance there's that 87 billion spent on Iraq. It makes no mention of the 180 billion spent on social programs that Bush had nothing to do with, but hey, blame the guy in office. Keep in mind there is a difference between the National Debt and the National Budget. While Clinton was revelling in a small surplus in the National Budget, he actually increased the National debt by 2.8 trillion dollars, more than in the entire US history before 1990.

Meanwhile, Davis led a State with a 10 billion surplus to a 30 billion deficit in record time. It was all due to the Dot Com thing??Last I heard Davis was blaming it on Enron.

Davis is a slimeball who is a master of dirty politics and backroom deals. He won the last election by 1) slamming the Republican candidate who had the most promise with a wicked smear campaign during the Republican gubernatorial primaries, thereby ensuring his success by eliminating the competition. and 2) by making a bunch of promises of which he has kept ... let me count now ... ZERO.

Bush will be getting the country back on track while Howard Dean will become a trivia question. Better start thinking about 2008.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
Can you just get this damm thing over and done with?

Just a couple more days until
<hr>
<h2 align="center">Total Recall</h2>
<hr>

[Silicon]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal


There's been quite a lot said about Bush and the economy. For instance there's that 87 billion spent on Iraq. It makes no mention of the 180 billion spent on social programs that Bush had nothing to do with, but hey, blame the guy in office.


Because that's AMERICAN tax dollars being spent on AMERICANS, for one thing.


Meanwhile, Davis led a State with a 10 billion surplus to a 30 billion deficit in record time. It was all due to the Dot Com thing??Last I heard Davis was blaming it on Enron.

It's called fallen revenue. You didn't hear about the dot.com collapse?



Davis is a slimeball who is a master of dirty politics and backroom deals. He won the last election by 1) slamming the Republican candidate who had the most promise with a wicked smear campaign during the Republican gubernatorial primaries, thereby ensuring his success by eliminating the competition.

And if he was a Republican, you'd be knighting him for all of that, calling him a master gamesman. Isn't that exactly what Rove did to McCain? Push polling saying McCain fathered an illigitimate black child to voters in the South? Pot, kettle. Politics is ugly stuff.




Bush will be getting the country back on track while Howard Dean will become a trivia question. Better start thinking about 2008. [/B][/QUOTE]

Actually Clark/Dean will be running the country soon enough!

And then they'll take credit for the turn around that has been brought on the backs of the American worker.

Certainly not Wall Street's doing. Or that tax cut to the people who are the most wealthy. Or the tax holiday for companies who incorporate in the Cayman islands. Or the proposed elimination of overtime for workers (how do they EVER spin that as being good for jobs?) Or any of a number of Anti-american loopholes or gifts or pork for corporations.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Silicon

Because that's AMERICAN tax dollars being spent on AMERICANS, for one thing.
Uh and the National Debt is mostly owed to foreign banks. What Americans are these social programs benefitting? The middle class? I doubt it.


It's called fallen revenue. You didn't hear about the dot.com collapse?

LOL. Being a programmer, I only work with like 20 people who went down with one dot com or another. Still, the impact on California's economy was negligable.


And if he was a Republican, you'd be knighting him for all of that, calling him a master gamesman. Isn't that exactly what Rove did to McCain? Push polling saying McCain fathered an illigitimate black child to voters in the South? Pot, kettle. Politics is ugly stuff.

I don't think I would like that weasel Davis even if he was a Republican. I can thank Davis for one thing, though. I used to be a Democrat, and Davis changed all that.


Actually Clark/Dean will be running the country soon enough!

Or running from the country :roll:

[subgenius]

Anyone know the origin or purpose of California's recall law?

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by subgenius
Anyone know the origin or purpose of California's recall law?

Off the top of my head; Hiram Johnson, C. 1911?. The purpose was to provide a mechanism to fight graft and corruption in government. Every governor in California for the last 30 years or so has faced some kind of recall attempt. This is the first "successful" one on a California governor. Successful meaning brought to a vote. I believe that legislators and judges can also be recalled. You can easily google up more specific info.

Beyond that here's a good thesis on recalls in general:
What Is the History of Recall Elections? (http://hnn.us/articles/1660.html)

[peptoabysmal]

The frenetic pace of campaigning nearly had the candidates crossing paths, as the throng of reporters traveling with Davis arrived at the Sacramento airport Monday morning as a group of reporters covering Schwarzenegger waited to depart. Schwarzenegger himself hadn't yet caught up with that group.

Latest dirt. (http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/politics/recall/story/1020193p-7161443c.html)

I have to wonder what they would have said to one another, if they had bumped together.

Would Arnold have quipped something like "I'll be back."?

Edited to add: freaking end tags!

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
Can you just get this damm thing over and done with?
I'm with YOU, AUP! Enough already. Regardless of the outcome of the election, it's not like there's going to be some miraculous turn-around in our economy. There is still going to be turmoil; people are still going to be dissatisfied; and there will still be a lot of finger pointing. Let's just get on with it.

[peptoabysmal]

OK, you're right, enough is enough.

One last word to my fellow Californians before I go.

<hr>
<blockquote>

No matter what your feeling is on the issue of the California recall, please get out there and vote. Vote to keep Davis, vote for Gary Coleman, I don't care. Whatever your conscience dictates. Just, please, please, please do it. Please take an interest in the process that drives your state and your country.

</blockquote>
<hr>

(Stepping down from soap box)

Thank You!