When was Franko ever wrong?

[Jedi Knight]

The atheist Jihadis who daily attacked Franko for his TLOP theory and other excellent observations of religious belief and science have failed to prove Franko wrong on a single point.

There is a possibility (but very, very slim) that I could be wrong that Franko was never wrong about his ideas and theories, so I am asking now--when has Franko ever been wrong?

JK

[neutrino_cannon]

While my knowlege of Franko's philosophy is not complete, I do know that he was wrong about determinalism. Quantum mechanics effectively refutes that particular assertion. To his credit, he was totally self-consistent, but much of the other things he said are reliant on that assertion.

Solution? Deny quantum mechanics of course.

Furthermore, it was not his theism (logical deism) that we took issue to, it was a) the fact he was acomplete and utter nutter, and b) the fact that his assertions, so energetically posted everywhere, did not hold up under the critical inquiry that he placed them under when he pos(i)ted them here.

[Checkmite]

Franko was incorrect in his interpretation of the term "spin" as it applies to subatomic particles (gravitons were the ones he used). He took spin to mean literal turning - and asserted that "left" spin is male whilst "right" spin is female. Of course, in quantum mechanics, "spin", like "color" and "flavor", doesn't mean the same as it does when talking about basketballs.

[Max560]

Franko was wrong when he committed the fallacy of composition (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/composition.html) , and decided to ignore this.

Rather than defending his claims, he preferred to use strawman tactics (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html) , and ad hominem attacks (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html) .

You can certainly read ad nauseum all of the threads which Franko posted to in order to see this.


The atheist Jihadis .....

I leave it to you to determine which fallacy you are commiting when you use expressions and terms like the above.

[c4ts]

Franko's position on free will was highly contradictory as well

[edit:] No, Franko was never really "wrong" because he lived in a universe where things like logic, mathematics, QM, and sanity didn't apply.

[The Fool]

Ladies and Gentleman......JK has been surgically removed from this forum, for good. I shall cry myself to sleep about it.

[neutrino_cannon]

Originally posted by The Fool
Ladies and Gentleman......JK has been surgically removed from this forum, for good. I shall cry myself to sleep about it.

Right after the champagne I imagine.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by The Fool
Ladies and Gentleman......JK has been surgically removed from this forum, for good. I shall cry myself to sleep about it.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS!! - I mean, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! - I mean, well, crap, I don't know what I mean. This calls for libations anyway.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Or more accurately, when was Franko ever right? And when were you ever right? Anser to both - never.

What do you think of that? Oh wait, you can't reply, because you've been sent to loser-ville. Buh bye!

[HarryKeogh]

Originally posted by The Fool
Ladies and Gentleman......JK has been surgically removed from this forum, for good. I shall cry myself to sleep about it.

this may be the first time i've ever posted to a JK thread and it's just to say good riddance to the trash.

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
The atheist Jihadis who daily attacked Franko for his TLOP theory and other excellent observations of religious belief and science have failed to prove Franko wrong on a single point.

There is a possibility (but very, very slim) that I could be wrong that Franko was never wrong about his ideas and theories, so I am asking now--when has Franko ever been wrong?

JK

Greetings my friend Jedi Knight/Franko I hope you are well and happy.

[Checkmite]

I think Jedi is still miffed at having his absurd theories about gravity mauled to death. As one of the maulers, and if it's any consolation, Jedi [I know you're banned but you're probably still reading this because 1) you're a frothing addict and 2) you've been, as Franko would say, caught in our gravity], I must assure you that your theories were delicious.

[Upchurch]

Sonofagun. JK came and went and I didn't get to play at all! :(

So, for token effort, I'll point out Franko's last thread where he totally got the theory of relativity wrong.

*sigh*

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Sonofagun. JK came and went and I didn't get to play at all! :(

So, for token effort, I'll point out Franko's last thread where he totally got the theory of relativity wrong.

*sigh*

Hello Upchurch my friend. You need to place a disclaimer nest to my quote indicating I was busting your balls.

Don’t make me have to instruct my people to contact your people over this matter.
:wink8:

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Pahansiri

You need to place a disclaimer nest to my quote indicating I was busting your balls. Whatever your intention, I felt it was a fair warning to anyone foolish enough to consider believing anything I say. ;)

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Whatever your intention, I felt it was a fair warning to anyone foolish enough to consider believing anything I say. ;)

http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/pound.gif

[CWL]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Sonofagun. JK came and went and I didn't get to play at all! :(

Me neither. Dammit. I'm losing the ol' trollbaitin' touch.

So, for token effort, I'll point out Franko's last thread where he totally got the theory of relativity wrong.

*sigh*

I personally enjoyed Franko's claim that "Einstein was a logical deist" (I seem to recall that he even sat on "the right hand side of the Goddess"). The fact that Einstein was a humanist (secular with deist tendencies) was pointed out to the old Sage on several occasions, but somehow it would never really sink in... :D

And hey Upchurch - let's not forget about Frankoman's claim that "free will is a purely atheistic invention". That one really must be our winner!

Ah... Franko nostalgia. Gotta love this forum! :biggrin:

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by CWL
And hey Upchurch - let's not forget about Frankoman's claim that "free will is a purely atheistic invention". A modern atheistic invention developed, I believe he said, around the same time as Communism. Or maybe I'm confusing Franko with JK?

[CWL]

Originally posted by Upchurch
A modern atheistic invention developed, I believe he said, around the same time as Communism. Or maybe I'm confusing Franko with JK?

Lol. I have a slight recollection that he said "modern" too. Until you politely pointed to certain quotes by St. Augustine. Not that it helped... :D

As to the communist connection, that one I believe may involve some confusion with the teachings of the old Jedi. :D

Man, it really is strange. When the resident kooks are around, one gets infuriated with them. When they leave, one - albeit on some very strange level - actually misses them.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by CWL

Man, it really is strange. When the resident kooks are around, one gets infuriated with them. When they leave, one - albeit on some very strange level - actually misses them. I've been thinking about that.

With Franko, JK, and AForce1, it took work to get inside their heads to (1) understand what they were actually trying to say and (2) understand their "logic" well enough to come up with a counter argument. Those that I would consider the current kooks or trolls, don't really have the same complexity. I'll not name names, but the current trolls just post inflamitory stuff and don't try to defend it. There's no challenge to it.

Don't get me wrong, I have no desire to get back into it with either JK or Franko. (Well, maybe JK about the D&M Pyramid)

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Upchurch
I've been thinking about that.

With Franko, JK, and AForce1, it took work to get inside their heads to (1) understand what they were actually trying to say and (2) understand their "logic" well enough to come up with a counter argument. Those that I would consider the current kooks or trolls, don't really have the same complexity. I'll not name names, but the current trolls just post inflamitory stuff and don't try to defend it. There's no challenge to it.

Don't get me wrong, I have no desire to get back into it with either JK or Franko. (Well, maybe JK about the D&M Pyramid)

I always felt JK was Franko for many reasons and this last post of JK saying “When was Franko ever wrong?” and not “When was JK ever wrong?” added a bit to my belief.

When really backed into a corner both took on more and more similar characteristics .

I may be wrong and just what I believe.

Of course I also thought Upchurch was kind of handsome, you know from a distance.

[CWL]

Originally posted by Upchurch
(Well, maybe JK about the D&M Pyramid)

Yea, and what about inspiration for the Wanko Saga thread? What I wouldn't give for another one of those causeries or comic strips...

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by CWL


Yea, and what about inspiration for the Wanko Saga thread? What I wouldn't give for another one of those causeries or comic strips... Oh. No doubt. I had just gotten my rear end handed to me by muscleman. I wanted to know if I survived in the next one.

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by Upchurch

Don't get me wrong, I have no desire to get back into it with either JK or Franko. (Well, maybe JK about the D&M Pyramid)

That was an interesting discussion - the D&M pyramid one. Is that thread still around? I have some drawings on there that I'd like to archive.

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by CWL


Yea, and what about inspiration for the Wanko Saga thread? What I wouldn't give for another one of those causeries or comic strips...

Hmmm...

[Tricky]

I don't believe that Franko ever believed a thing he posted. I think that "Franko" was just a character in a complex role-playing game that he liked to conduct on the internet. He enjoyed creating the "religion" scenario and did his best to support it even in the face of all evidence and logic. When that failed, he went on the attack.

But in Private Messages, Franko was affable and calm. He would even say things like "Don't take anything I say too seriously". I did a lot of battle with his internet persona, even knowing it wasn't real, simply because I cannot stand to see bullsh*t unchallenged.

Jedi, on the other hand, may have exaggerated his positions, but I truly believe that he was not making them up. He had that certainty that only comes with true madness.

Both Franko and Jedi, though, spawned interesting discussions, even if they were never a meaningful part of them. So maybe there is some use for trolls.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Tricky
So maybe there is some use for trolls.

Yes. They distract us from keeping our own house in order. ;)

[Beleth]

I got into a very good argument with Franko about free will in one of the threads muscleman (remember that flash-in-the-pan?) started. I disproved the syllogism his entire philosophy is based on, and then I never heard from Franko again.

I'm not taking credit for making Franko leave. I'm sure it was just coincidence.

(I basically showed that it was not me that obeyed TLOP; it's TLOP that obeys me. I can rehash it if anyone cares, but I don't think anyone does.)

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Beleth
I got into a very good argument with Franko about free will in one of the threads muscleman (remember that flash-in-the-pan?) started. I disproved the syllogism his entire philosophy is based on, and then I never heard from Franko again.

I'm not taking credit for making Franko leave. I'm sure it was just coincidence.

(I basically showed that it was not me that obeyed TLOP; it's TLOP that obeys me. I can rehash it if anyone cares, but I don't think anyone does.)

Many of us disproved Franko's stupid syllogism to his face at least three times, long before you did.

[CWL]

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi


Hmmm...

You go JK!






... oh - I guess it's not ok to call you JK even though Jedi Knight is gone? My sincere and honest appologies. :D

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by CWL

... oh - I guess it's not ok to call you JK even though Jedi Knight is gone? My sincere and honest appologies. :D I dunno. Maybe we could distinguish between the Light Side JK and the Dark Side JK?

[CWL]

Originally posted by Upchurch
I dunno. Maybe we could distinguish between the Light Side JK and the Dark Side JK?

LSJK and DSJK?

:jedi:

Why not.

[Franko]

I thought Jedi got banned?

How can he post if he is banned?

BTW ... what happened to the Elephant?

[CWL]

Originally posted by Franko
I thought Jedi got banned?

How can he post if he is banned?

BTW ... what happened to the Elephant?

Franko?

Is that really you?

Quick - what do I obey?

[Samus]

Well well, Franko...welcome back :)

[SFB]

Originally posted by CWL
Quick - what do I obey?


:D :D

[Upchurch]

:confused: What an odd occurance.

Silence for months and then suddenly two old trolls rear their heads. Could cause a man to contemplate fate...

If F is back, anyone want to place odds on how long he lasts?

edited to add:

Oh, and no one was refering to Jedi posting again, we just wanted to distinguish between the different JKs. Three guesses which one is the "Dark Side"

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Franko

BTW ... what happened to the Elephant?

Playing The Game elsewhere/elsewhen I'd guess.

Welcome back. ;)


Originally posted by Beleth

(I basically showed that it was not me that obeyed TLOP; it's TLOP that obeys me. I can rehash it if anyone cares, but I don't think anyone does.)

Actually, yes; I would care. Do you know if the old thread still exists & if so would you post the link?

[Samus]

Originally posted by Franko
I thought Jedi got banned?

How can he post if he is banned? He posted, then got banned. He got banned shortly after this thread got started (like, within a day if I recall correctly).

[Franko]

It’s Good to see you again Mr. Hand.

[Elephant …]Playing The Game elsewhere/elsewhen I'd guess.

Did he get booted, or did he just leave of his own “free will”?

(did he flip-out/implode before he left?)

What happened to all of his posts?

------------------------

C.C. Thanks for the info. What precisely did they ban the Knight for anyway?

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Franko
What precisely did they ban the Knight for anyway? Excessively rude behavior, primarily. The first time he left on his own after some incredibly and undeniably foul things were said. Hal let him come back on probation and he just started it all back up again. I'm not sure which act was the straw that broke the camel's back, though.

[Samus]

Originally posted by Franko
Did he get booted, or did he just leave of his own “free will”?

(did he flip-out/implode before he left?)

What happened to all of his posts? UCE pretty much just left. He decided to play elsewhere, that's all. No implosion, and his posts are still here, but they're listed as "Guest".

Originally posted by Franko
C.C. Thanks for the info. What precisely did they ban the Knight for anyway? Being a butt, basically. He said some pretty nasty things to some folks, and at that point he already had a few warnings under his belt.

[Franko]

I always liked Jedi Knight.

I never had a problem with him, and he was never rude to me. I wonder why my experience with him here was so anomalous?

[gentlehorse]

Franko, my main figment! It's good to hear from you again! Welcome back!

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Franko
I wonder why my experience with him here was so anomalous? That's easy. You agreed, or at least didn't disagree, with him. JK would become hostile with anyone who questioned his claims, which was most of the board.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Franko
I always liked Jedi Knight.

I never had a problem with him, and he was never rude to me. I wonder why my experience with him here was so anomalous?

Same here. We had an interesting detente.

Welcome back.

[Upchurch]

Couldn't find one thing that you could point to as "the" reason why JK was banned, but from the horse's mouth:Originally posted by hal bidlack

had reason to believe that his return might be marked by a new level of civility, and, hopefully, a full and heartfelt apology to Fool [for an apparently incredibly horrible thing JK said about Fool's daughter]. Alas, it is clear that I was in error to hope so. Please know that the decision to allow JK back was totally mine, and I am fully responsible. I now take corrective action, and revoke his membership on this forum. I also apologize to my moderators, who knew better.

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by Upchurch
That's easy. You agreed, or at least didn't disagree, with him. JK would become hostile with anyone who questioned his claims, which was most of the board.

To be honest, I can't recall ever getting into a mudslinging match with Jedi either...and I disagreed with him relentlessly on his "Mars structures" threads. I never debated with him as far as his politics went; that, I think, is where he developed animosity towards his detractors.

Franko, I'm surprised and somehow somewhat delighted with your sudden return.

For the sake of understanding, I will confess that I'm in the middle of writing a parody story involving Jedi. In the same way that Lovecraft's The Nameless City was a Cthulhu Mythos story even though Cthulhu wasn't it in, I must allow that my parody is technically a "Wanko Saga" story even though Wanko doesn't feature in it. I want Franko to know this in case he plans on sitting down and staying a bit, and catches me adding a post to the relevant thread in Flame Wars - I don't want him to think I'm ragging on him since he's returned.

And although Franko has gotten liberal with the language on occasion, he never said anything as rotten as Jedi.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi

To be honest, I can't recall ever getting into a mudslinging match with Jedi either...and I disagreed with him relentlessly on his "Mars structures" threads. I never debated with him as far as his politics went; that, I think, is where he developed animosity towards his detractors.I think you may be right. He didn't really get hostile until after he left R&P and posted only in Politics, now that I think about it.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Franko
Did he get booted, or did he just leave of his own “free will”?

(did he flip-out/implode before he left?)

What happened to all of his posts?
The first time he got booted resulted from a thread started in the Flame Wars listing and linking his... uh... unusual pronouncements. He seemed to take offense to this and responded with a steady stream of obscenities directed at several posters and Hal himself. He then asked Hal to delete his account. Hal agreed to delete his name, but left his posts as "unregistered user" or something like that. That thread was then locked.

Personally, I think he did it on purpose, figuring that being banned was some sort of badge of honor.
Originally posted by Franko
C.C. Thanks for the info. What precisely did they ban the Knight for anyway?

When Jedi returned, he convinced Hal he would behave, and also had his name restored to all his old posts.

But soon he was getting himself in trouble again by touting how he had never abused anyone. To expose this lie, The Fool resurrected that horrible post Jedi made about Fools ill child. Rather than apologize, Jedi attacked Fool again, and Hal said he'd seen enough. As Hal says, it was his decision alone.

[uruk]

Wow. I thought the whole philosophy thing was a joke.
The ideas seemed too absurd. I did'nt know JK had an actual
emotional investment in his "TLOP" theory.

It kind of gives me that same embarassed, sick feeling I got when
I laughed at my friend when he was telling me that he belived his parents implanted a transmitter in his head so they could hear his thoughts. I thought he was joking but it turned out that he was diagnosed a paranoid schitzophrenic.:(

depressing.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by uruk
depressing. Welcome to the world of JREF trolls. :(

[UndercoverElephant]

Originally posted by Franko

Did he get booted, or did he just leave of his own “free will”?


I left of my own free will, Frank. ;)


(did he flip-out/implode before he left?)


No implosion. Just bored of going round the same circle.

I post on a philosophy forum now. The discussions aren't quite so circular.


What happened to all of his posts?


I had them delete my accounts. I was tired of being a paranormal subversive. I'm just Geoff now.

G

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by JustGeoff


I left of my own free will, Frank. ;)Geoff, are you claiming to be the same poster who posted under the name Jedi Knight?

[UndercoverElephant]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Geoff, are you claiming to be the same poster who posted under the name Jedi Knight?

You must be joking!

JK was a right-wing lunatic. He was one of only 3 people who ever made it onto my ignore list.

[Upchurch]

No joking here. Franko was referring to JK and you responded as if he was speaking of you.

Who were you then?

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by JustGeoff


You must be joking!

JK was a right-wing lunatic. He was one of only 3 people who ever made it onto my ignore list.

Are you from the UK and like Elephants, more so ones undercover?? :wink:

[UndercoverElephant]

Originally posted by Upchurch
No joking here. Franko was referring to JK and you responded as if he was speaking of you.

Who were you then?

I was the one known as Undercover Elephant.

[UndercoverElephant]

Originally posted by Pahansiri


Are you from the UK and like Elephants, more so ones undercover?? :wink:

I am. And I do. :D

[Upchurch]

Ah. My mistake.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by JustGeoff


I am. And I do. :D

A warm welcome back.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by JustGeoff


I was the one known as Undercover Elephant.
I echo the others welcoming you back. Hope all is going well for you.

[UndercoverElephant]

Originally posted by Sundog


A warm welcome back.

Well thankyou, sundog. It is a social visit really. I saw the Frankmonster was here and Q-Source talked me into making a return. If anyone actually wants to discuss philosophy then I will invite them over to my new home.....

http://forums.philosophyforums.com

[UndercoverElephant]

Originally posted by Tricky

I echo the others welcoming you back. Hope all is going well for you.

Cheers. Everything is just fine. It's been a good year for the Elephant.

[Franko]

Hey Bullet!

How you doing bud? :D

I wandered by here the other day and was quite surprised not to see you around. I noticed that all of your old posts were gone, so it got me to wondering what became of you.

I'll have to pop by your new stomping grounds some time.

[CWL]

Originally posted by JustGeoff
I had them delete my accounts. I was tired of being a paranormal subversive. I'm just Geoff now.

Hi Geoff,

Are we to interpret the above as meaning that you have changed your opinions in relation to the ones expressed by you when posting as UCE?

Oh - and welcome back, BTW.

[UndercoverElephant]

Originally posted by Franko

I wandered by here the other day and was quite surprised not to see you around. I noticed that all of your old posts were gone, so it got me to wondering what became of you.


I got bored of going round in circles. I wanted to discuss some real philosophy, not just have the same endless discussion about "Dennetts last stand".


I'll have to pop by your new stomping grounds some time. [/B]

Do that. Much higher quality of debate.

[UndercoverElephant]

Originally posted by CWL

Are we to interpret the above as meaning that you have changed your opinions in relation to the ones expressed by you when posting as UCE?


Does the sun set in the East? :p

I have many opinions, and they evolve over time.

I have no intention of re-entering any debates about the fate of Dennett-style materialism. There are others here who are perfectly well-equiped to make that case, if they happen to enjoy banging their heads against a wall. If you want to re-open that line of enquiry then come to www.philosophyforums.com and do it with the big boys. :)

[Franko]

Geoff (a.k.a. Elephant) said:
I got bored of going round in circles. I wanted to discuss some real philosophy, not just have the same endless discussion about "Dennetts last stand".

Hehehe … I hear that!

Yeah, there is a certain sect here that is pretty much dedicated to obfuscation for the sake of obfuscation.

It’s great to hear from you bud. I just checked out that other forum and I think I already have an account there. It will be good to chat again.

Maybe I can wheen you off that Socialism nonsense? (hehe) ;)

[Franko]

Hey, by the way ... what did you think of Matrix Reloaded?

[UndercoverElephant]

Originally posted by Franko
Hey, by the way ... what did you think of Matrix Reloaded?

I thought it was rubbish. No real storyline until the end. Just lots of ludicrous fight scenes that were 3 times longer than they should have been. But you can't blame them for milking it.

[Franko]

So do you think they are headed down the Matrix in a Matrix road with the Smith in both worlds, Neo stopping the Squids at the end stuff?

Did you see the Animatrix? They kind of hinted at it a lot in there as well.

[UndercoverElephant]

Originally posted by Franko
So do you think they are headed down the Matrix in a Matrix road with the Smith in both worlds, Neo stopping the Squids at the end stuff?


Do I think what? :eek:

Dunno what you mean.


Did you see the Animatrix? They kind of hinted at it a lot in there as well.

Never heard of it.

[Pahansiri]

Good to see both Geoff & Franko back and hope both are wel and happy and had a great summer.

[Checkmite]

If I may...I really didn't care for the Matrix all that much; the first one that is. Don't get me wrong, it was fascinating at first...up till the last half hour or so. Like Roger Ebert said, it's difficult to take seriously a movie that starts out redefining the nature of reality and ends with an unbelievably cliche'd gunfight.

[UndercoverElephant]

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi
If I may...I really didn't care for the Matrix all that much; the first one that is. Don't get me wrong, it was fascinating at first...up till the last half hour or so. Like Roger Ebert said, it's difficult to take seriously a movie that starts out redefining the nature of reality and ends with an unbelievably cliche'd gunfight.

It's wide appeal is part of what makes the Matrix an important film though. It is a box-office smash and deeply laden with philosophical ideas that much of the public is never normally exposed to. Without the special effects and fight scenes considerably fewer people would have been introduced to the concepts.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
Good to see both Geoff & Franko back and hope both are wel and happy and had a great summer.
Please clean out your mailbox, Mr. P.

Thanks.

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Tricky

Please clean out your mailbox, Mr. P.

Thanks.


LOL... OK this time it heald 2 before it was "filled" all empty now..let-er ripp my friend...

Are you going to talk dirty to me again?:clap:

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Pahansiri



LOL... OK this time it heald 2 before it was "filled" all empty now..let-er ripp my friend...

Are you going to talk dirty to me again?:clap:
You do realize that you have to clean out your "sent mail" and things you are tracking too?

That is where things tend to build up, because you don't see them when you log in.

And my message bounced again. *%$##@!

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Tricky

You do realize that you have to clean out your "sent mail" and things you are tracking too?

That is where things tend to build up, because you don't see them when you log in.

And my message bounced again. *%$##@!


LOL %^#*^#*#(&^$ OK I got rid of my 4 sents too.... Try again, I am sorry...

Who would have thought cyber sex was so hard