Osama to Truthers: I Did It

[Brainster]

Personally, I question the timing (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071129/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bin_laden_tape):

CAIRO, Egypt - Al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden called on Europeans to stop helping the United States in the war in Afghanistan, according to excerpts of a new audiotape broadcast Thursday on Al-Jazeera television.

Bin Laden said it was unjust for the United States to have invaded Afghanistan for sheltering him after the Sept. 11 terror attacks, saying he was the "only one responsible" for the deadly assaults on New York and Washington.

"The events of Manhattan were retaliation against the American-Israeli alliance's aggression against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, and I am the only one responsible for it. The Afghan people and government knew nothing about it. America knows that," the al-Qaida leader said.

Oh, and here's a little quote for the "FBI has no hard evidence tying Osama Bin Laden to 9-11" crowd:

FBI analysts were reviewing the tape but were not immediately able to say how long it was or when it might have been recorded nor could they provide other details. Spokesman Richard Kolko said it was being examined "to determine if it is authentic and for any intelligence value."

"As the FBI has said since 9/11, bin Laden was responsible for the attack," Kolko said in a statement. "In this latest tape, he again acknowledged his responsibility. This should help to clarify for all the conspiracy theorists, again — the 9/11 attack was done by bin Laden and al-Qaida."

Asked for a comment, Dylan Avery declined to take his head out of the oven.

[JAStewart]

But we all know he's a CIA agent anyway so it's all negligible. :footinmou

[dudalb]

How long until the cries of "It's A Fake" arise in Twooferville?
On second thought,it probably has already happened.

[qarnos]

This should help to clarify for all the conspiracy theorists, again — the 9/11 attack was done by bin Laden and al-Qaida.

We all know how the truthers will spin that one.

[T.A.M.]

Clearly Tim Osman is the man behind this tape...lol

TAM:)

[Drudgewire]

I have it on good authority Osama can only say "clunkity clunk" 18 times in 12 seconds so what does he know? :rolleyes:

[LastChild]

Why is the FBI so slow in updating their website?

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

http://www.stopviolence.com/images/9-11/binladen.gif

[Drudgewire]

Why is the FBI so slow in updating their website?
They haven't planted enough evidence yet? I mean, they've only been able to convict him in the media but couldn't get a grand jury to indict him?

Are you daft man?

[DGM]

Why is the FBI so slow in updating their website?

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

http://www.stopviolence.com/images/9-11/binladen.gif
The FBI just likes screwing with "truthers".

[HyJinX]

You idiots! Osama is obviously a product of the CIA, FBI, FDA, AFT, Mossad, Dept. of Agriculture, DOD, Greenpeace and PETA. Of course he would admit responsibility!

C'mon sheeple. Get with the program. Osama claiming he's responsible is direct evidence that 9/11 was an InSIde jOB!!!!

[ihaunter]

Why is the FBI so slow in updating their website?

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

http://www.stopviolence.com/images/9-11/binladen.gif

My guess would be red tape. Specific legalities regarding what can and cannot be put on the poster. Now, let's turn the question back towards you. If the FBI are framing Bin Laden, why haven't they put the info on the poster that they themselves can edit and update? You can't use my explanation because if they are framing him, or using him as a patsy, then they will not be interested in upholding the laws of prosecution.

[Mince]

Looks like damage control all over the denier message boards.

http://incontext.blogmosis.com/see%20no%20evil.jpg


Above is Alex Jones and The Watson Twins.

[Mince]

Why is the FBI so slow in updating their website?

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

http://www.stopviolence.com/images/9-11/binladen.gif


Why are you so slow in asking them?

[LastChild]

My guess would be red tape. Specific legalities regarding what can and cannot be put on the poster. Now, let's turn the question back towards you. If the FBI are framing Bin Laden, why haven't they put the info on the poster that they themselves can edit and update? You can't use my explanation because if they are framing him, or using him as a patsy, then they will not be interested in upholding the laws of prosecution.

Did I claim they were framing him? That's some job they're doing.

[pomeroo]

Why is the FBI so slow in updating their website?

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

http://www.stopviolence.com/images/9-11/binladen.gif


You have to get up pretty early in the morning to slip one past you. So, your position is that the FBI is NOT part of the Impossibly Vast Conspiracy, right? The bureau is obviously not on the same page as everyone else.

[Brainache]

Did I claim they were framing him? That's some job they're doing.

Well if not that, what are you claiming? That FBI office staff are slack? That UBL is innocent of all charges? That UBL has never confessed his guilt in relation to anything? WHAT?

[beachnut]

Why is the FBI so slow in updating their website?

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

http://www.stopviolence.com/images/9-11/binladen.gif
Not as slow as you are to understand 9/11. Go get UBL, he will confess, he is not a liar like 9/11 truth people.

[defaultdotxbe]

Why is the FBI so slow in updating their website?

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

http://www.stopviolence.com/images/9-11/binladen.gif
sometime between the time the screenshot in the second link was taken and now the FBI updated their website to reflect his 1994 exile from saudi arabia, at that pace we can expect to see 9/11 on the poster sometime around 2011

[LastChild]

sometime between the time the screenshot in the second link was taken and now the FBI updated their website to reflect his 1994 exile from saudi arabia, at that pace we can expect to see 9/11 on the poster sometime around 2011

That's ok. It's not like he'll be caught by then or anything.

[SpitfireIX]

Bin Laden was on the FBI's 10 most wanted list before the September 11 attacks. Why should they bother indicting him for those, when he was already wanted, and eligible for the death penalty, for the embassy bombings?

The Feds did, however, raise the reward offered for him from $5 million before September 11, 2001, to $25 million.

[LastChild]

Well if not that, what are you claiming? That FBI office staff are slack? That UBL is innocent of all charges? That UBL has never confessed his guilt in relation to anything? WHAT?

I'm claiming that although some at the FBI maintain UBL might have been involved in planning the 9/11 attacks they still don't have any hard evidence to update their site or secure an indictment. In fact I don’t believe he’s been indicted for anything since Dubya has been President. Has he?

[defaultdotxbe]

That's ok. It's not like he'll be caught by then or anything.
for once we agree on something, although im certain we see entirely different reasons behind it

[pomeroo]

I'm claiming that although some at the FBI maintain UBL might have been involved in planning the 9/11 attacks they still don't have any hard evidence to update their site or secure an indictment. In fact I don’t believe he’s been indicted for anything since Dubya has been President. Has he?



He is not regarded as a common criminal, but rather as the head of a stateless entity that is at war with the U.S.

[beachnut]

I'm claiming that although some at the FBI maintain UBL might have been involved in planning the 9/11 attacks they still don't have any hard evidence to update their site or secure an indictment. In fact I don’t believe he’s been indicted for anything since Dubya has been President. Has he?
Does this mess up your ability to make logical conclusions on 9/11? Looks like you think this trivial matter makes a difference. UBL said he is responsible, he does not lie like 9/11 truthers do. Sad, an enemy of mine is better than a few fellow citizens and posters at telling the truth. The pathetic few, 9/11 truth.

Any person who was up on intelligent reports for the past 20 years would have suspected UBL after the second aircraft impacted. Why are truthers so unprepared for reality and unable to understand events like 9/11?

[OldTigerCub]

Bin Laden was on the FBI's 10 most wanted list before the September 11 attacks. Why should they bother indicting him for those, when he was already wanted, and eligible for the death penalty, for the embassy bombings?

The Feds did, however, raise the reward offered for him from $5 million before September 11, 2001, to $25 million.

The Rewards For Justice Program, United States Department of State, is offering a reward of up to $25 million for information leading directly to the apprehension or conviction of Usama Bin Laden. An additional $2 million is being offered through a program developed and funded by the Airline Pilots Association and the Air Transport Association.

The Airline Pilots Association reward brings it to $27million

[Unsecured Coins]

I wonder why the Pilot's Associaitionis offering a reward for his capture as well...

[SpitfireIX]

The Airline Pilots Association reward brings it to $27million


I did know that, actually, but I was confining my discussion to the US government's action. It's good that you pointed that out, though, for completeness. Also, just think about how huge this total reward is compared with any other rewards offered before September 11, 2001.

[defaultdotxbe]

I did know that, actually, but I was confining my discussion to the US government's action. It's good that you pointed that out, though, for completeness. Also, just think about how huge this total reward is compared with any other rewards offered before September 11, 2001.
hey with that kindof money the truthers can fund a new investigation AND buy lots of plasma tv and four wheelers, they should go capture him, lol

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Did I claim they were framing him? That's some job they're doing.

You got that right. They have 95.4% of the nation convinced it was Osama.

[LastChild]

[Any person who was up on intelligent reports for the past 20 years would have suspected UBL after the second aircraft impacted. Why are truthers so unprepared for reality and unable to understand events like 9/11? [/COLOR]

Yeah I sort of remember people jumping to those kinds of logical assumptions after Oklahoma City. It wasn't proof of anything.

[LastChild]

You got that right. They have 95.4% of the nation convinced it was Osama.

Is that proof of something? You forgot the ones who think Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11.

[pomeroo]

Yeah I sort of remember people jumping to those kinds of logical assumptions after Oklahoma City. It wasn't proof of anything.


I think the assumption that a terrorist attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon involved Osama bin Laden was pretty reasonable. It became even more reasonable after Osama acknowledged his role. There are those who find the assumption ever more reasonable each time Osama acknowledges his role.

[LastChild]

The Airline Pilots Association reward brings it to $27million

Is the airline pilots association going to indict UBL and put him on trial too?

Maybe I should offer 50 million. Hell it’s not like I’ll ever have to pay up.

[pomeroo]

Is that proof of something? You forgot the ones who think Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11.


Funny, like everyone else, I know many people who believe that Osama was behind the attacks of 9/11/01 and nobody who thinks that Saddam was involved. Someday, someone will produce a person who thinks that Saddam was involved.

[LashL]

Why is the FBI so slow in updating their website?

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm





Did you not notice the part where they updated it in November 2001 to increase the reward to $25,000,000? Are you not aware that that change was a direct result of his role in the attacks of 9/11?

ETA: Spitfire already pointed this out, I see. And LastChild ignored it, I see.

[LashL]

Maybe I should offer 50 million.


You're a little late with that idea.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/07/wanted-senate-i.html

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8a7_1184354486

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/24/binladen.reward/index.html

[defaultdotxbe]

Yeah I sort of remember people jumping to those kinds of logical assumptions after Oklahoma City. It wasn't proof of anything.
until evidence showed otherwise, what does that say about the "evidence" truth movement claims to have?

Is that proof of something? You forgot the ones who think Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11.
Funny, like everyone else, I know many people who believe that Osama was behind the attacks of 9/11/01 and nobody who thinks that Saddam was involved. Someday, someone will produce a person who thinks that Saddam was involved.
i know one person who thinks saddam funded bin laden, does that count?

[LashL]

hey with that kindof money the truthers can fund a new investigation AND buy lots of plasma tv and four wheelers, they should go capture him, lol

They can't. It might rain.

[1337m4n]

Why is the FBI so slow in updating their website?

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

http://www.stopviolence.com/images/9-11/binladen.gif

That's a good point, LastChild. If 9/11 was an inside job, why wouldn't they update the site to make it look like Osama did it?

[kageki]

My guess would be red tape. Specific legalities regarding what can and cannot be put on the poster. Now, let's turn the question back towards you. If the FBI are framing Bin Laden, why haven't they put the info on the poster that they themselves can edit and update? You can't use my explanation because if they are framing him, or using him as a patsy, then they will not be interested in upholding the laws of prosecution.

Do you have anything other then a guess?

Well it's basically played out as you describe. Osama is not wanted for 9/11 nor is he caught yet.

[kageki]

That's a good point, LastChild. If 9/11 was an inside job, why wouldn't they update the site to make it look like Osama did it?

There is probably legal reasons for why they can't officially list 9/11 on there. It's still not stopping people from believing he did it though.

[kageki]

Well if not that, what are you claiming? That FBI office staff are slack? That UBL is innocent of all charges? That UBL has never confessed his guilt in relation to anything? WHAT?

He also apparently confessed Zionists were behind it.

[kageki]

Bin Laden was on the FBI's 10 most wanted list before the September 11 attacks. Why should they bother indicting him for those, when he was already wanted, and eligible for the death penalty, for the embassy bombings?

The Feds did, however, raise the reward offered for him from $5 million before September 11, 2001, to $25 million.

9/11 seems like a crime that's worthy of putting up there to me.

I'm also wondering if there is anything other then confessions. Where are these tapes coming from anyways? Can't we interrogate the messenger or something?

[beachnut]

Yeah I sort of remember people jumping to those kinds of logical assumptions after Oklahoma City. It wasn't proof of anything.
Just idiots like 9/11 truthers. Sorry, I did not jump to a conclusion on OKC, even Islamic terrorist would not blow up people of OKC; they are too nice (you have never been to OKC). Sorry, you failed to make your point again.

The reason I suspected Islamic terrorist that worked with UBL is due to the suicide part Sherlock. OKC was a single act, there was no proof of suicide yet, and since the coward parked the truck and went up 35N, we know he is not a suicide terrorist, just a dumb white kid like me. But on 9/11, when I saw the second plane, it was UBL, best suspect. Sorry, the Beam weapon stuff, and thermite, and dustification of your 9/11 truth buddies did not make the cut. Too bad for you.

Evidence my poor child is what makes good conclusions, and since you jump to them without any evidence, and I use real evidence, you have lost this one. Try harder next time. Go ask UBL what he thinks about the idiots who believe 9/11 truth junk.

Next time try using logic and evidence. It works better than lies and hearsay.

[OldTigerCub]

I think the assumption that a terrorist attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon involved Osama bin Laden was pretty reasonable. It became even more reasonable after Osama acknowledged his role. There are those who find the assumption ever more reasonable each time Osama acknowledges his role.

...especially after the '93 bombing of the WTC was traced back to Bin Laden and his stated desire to strike at symbols of capitalism and American democracy.

[Mince]

I'm claiming that although some at the FBI maintain UBL might have been involved in planning the 9/11 attacks they still don't have any hard evidence to update their site or secure an indictment. In fact I don’t believe he’s been indicted for anything since Dubya has been President. Has he?

A confession is pretty...as you say...hard. But if you mean "empirical evidence", then no, they likely do not have much.

But they do have a confession...

[kageki]

A confession is pretty...as you say...hard. But if you mean "empirical evidence", then no, they likely do not have much.

But they do have a confession...

You can torture a confession out of someone. Like this Al Qaeda guy:

http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?article_class=3&no=378293&rel_no=1

It's really not hard evidence when you think about it. What if these tapes are fake? Isn't that a US military jacket that he is wearing?

[LashL]

You can torture a confession out of someone.

Staying on topic (I know that's difficult for you), please provide evidence that bin Laden was tortured into any of his confessions?

[kageki]

Staying on topic (I know that's difficult for you), please provide evidence that bin Laden was tortured into any of his confessions?

Please provide real evidence he did it.

[uk_dave]

Please provide real evidence he did it.

He confessed.

Of course if it was just a "Hey I woz only playin'" moment, then he could always give himself up and clear his name.

The whole world will be watching.

[kageki]

He confessed.

Of course if it was just a "Hey I woz only playin'" moment, then he could always give himself up and clear his name.

The whole world will be watching.

Exactly. So what if he did do that?

[LashL]

Please provide real evidence he did it.

In your post, you suggested that his confession was a result of torture, so it's up to you to provide evidence of same. If you did not mean to suggest that, then just say so and we can continue to discuss the topic of the thread. I will not be drawn into playing silly twoofer JAQing off games.

[kageki]

You were suggesting that his confession was a result of torture, so it's up to you to provide evidence of same. If you did not mean to suggest that, then just say so and we can continue to discuss the topic of the thread. I will not be drawn into silly twoofer JAQing off games.

Ok I don't have evidence, but do you have any evidence other then his confession?

Could that be the reason why it's not listed on the FBI poster?

[LashL]

Ok I don't have evidence

I'm glad that you admit that you have no evidence for your assertions and insinuations. But does that not make you reconsider your assertions and insinuations? It should.

but do you have any evidence other then his confession?

Yes. There is plenty of corroborating evidence.


Could that be the reason why it's not listed on the FBI poster?

The evidence suggests otherwise. Stop tilting at windmills.

[kageki]

I'm glad that you admit that you have no evidence for your assertions and insinuations. But does that not make you reconsider your assertions and insinuations? It should.



Yes. There is plenty of corroborating evidence.




The evidence suggests otherwise. Stop tilting at windmills.

Even without the insinuation there is the question of the confession itself. Where is this plenty of evidence? More confessions? What about his FBI poster?

What about this interview where he denies any role?

Usama bin Laden Says the Al-Qa'idah Group had Nothing to Do with the 11 September Attacks
http://www.robert-fisk.com/usama_interview_ummat.htm

[Dr Adequate]

Why is the FBI so slow in updating their website? And why does their official spokesman say: "As the FBI has said since 9/11, bin Laden was responsible for the attack ... This should help to clarify for all the conspiracy theorists, again — the 9/11 attack was done by bin Laden and al-Qaida"?

Does that not make their opinions rather clearer than your inability to understand the fine details of FBI procedure ever could?

[LashL]

Even without the insinuation there is the question of the confession itself. Where is this plenty of evidence? More confessions? What about his FBI poster?

What about this interview where he denies any role?

Usama bin Laden Says the Al-Qa'idah Group had Nothing to Do with the 11 September Attacks
http://www.robert-fisk.com/usama_interview_ummat.htm

It appears that you are incapable of writing a sentence that doesn't have a question mark at the end of it. As I said above, I'm not interested in the JAQing off that twoofers engage in. I am interested in the facts and evidence that support twoofer claims (but I haven't seen any to date).

You suggested that Osama bin Laden was tortured into making confessions. Please provide facts and evidence to support that.

[kageki]

And why does their official spokesman say: "As the FBI has said since 9/11, bin Laden was responsible for the attack ... This should help to clarify for all the conspiracy theorists, again — the 9/11 attack was done by bin Laden and al-Qaida"?

Does that not make their opinions rather clearer than your inability to understand the fine details of FBI procedure ever could?

Could they have the wrong suspect? Are they just going on Bin Laden's confession? Richard Jewel? Where's the evidence? What about the poster? Facts not opinions.

[kageki]

It appears that you are incapable of writing a sentence that doesn't have a question mark at the end of it. As I said above, I'm not interested in the JAQing off that twoofers engage in.

You suggested that Osama bin Laden was tortured into making confessions. Please provide facts and evidence to support that.

I already said I don't have the evidence right? You also seem to be incapable of answering questions either.

[Dr Adequate]

Some more stuff from the FBI website (http://www.fbi.gov/publications/terror/terror2000_2001.htm):

Undeterred by its thwarted efforts to target U.S. and other interests in late 1999 during the millennial time frame, the Al-Qaeda terrorist network carried out two separate attacks against the United States in 2000 and 2001 [...] The second, a coordinated suicide attack using four hijacked U.S. commercial aircraft as missiles on September 11, 2001, resulted in the deaths of 2,783 innocent people.

The terrorist attack of September 11, 2001, involving the hijacking of four commercial airliners which were crashed into the twin towers of the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and a remote field in Pennsylvania, marked the first successful international terrorist attack in the United States since the bombing of the World Trade Center in February 1993. The attack was carried out by 19 members of Al-Qaeda, an international terrorist network headed by Usama bin Laden.

[LashL]

I already said I don't have the evidence right? You also seem to be incapable of answering questions either.

I could answer your silly questions quite easily but I am not going to do so in the absence of any legitimate response to the posts above. In my view, way too much time and effort is wasted on responding in detail to deliberate BS posts such as those posted by LostChild and/or yourself.

As I said previously, I am not playing the twoofer JAQ game. It was nice of you to step in on LostChild's behalf, though.

If you ever bring anything of substance to the table, you'll get a different response from me, but so far... nada. Either bring something to the table or admit that you cannot and go away instead of pretending otherwise. The pretense is silly. And boring.

[Dr Adequate]

Could they have the wrong suspect? Are they just going on Bin Laden's confession? Richard Jewel? Where's the evidence? They did the biggest criminal investigation in American history. I couldn't tell you what else they based those statements on, because they didn't say in the passages quoted.

I have, however, shown you that their official spokesman and their official website clearly say that al Qaeda was behind 9/11.

What about the poster? Yes, what about the poster? What's it meant to prove? That the FBI are all secret Twoofers? That lumping 9/11 in with "other terrorist attacks" is a secret message of hope to you that you are not alone?

[Dr Adequate]

Having looked at the FBI's "facts" page, it appears that you can't be "wanted for" a crime if you're merely the most famous suspected co-conspirator, you have to have been charged with it.

[Foolmewunz]

He also apparently confessed Zionists were behind it.

But were they Bolshevik Zionists? Zionist Bolsheviks? Lower upper middle class or upper lower middle class?

(It's important to know these things so we can figure out which synagogue to defile in the morning.)

[MikeW]

Here's a fuller translation of the part of the new tape that al Jazeera played (there's apparently more to come):

The truth is, as I mentioned before, that the events in Manhattan (9/11) were a reaction to the American-Israeli coalition killing of our people in Palestine and Lebanon and that I am solely responsible for. I assure you that all the Afghans, government and people, were not at all aware of any of these events. America is well aware of this fact.

Some of the Taliban ministers fell captive in their hands, they were interrogated and they told the Americans the truth. This is why the Taliban government asked America before the invasion to provide them with proof but they couldn't provide any proof. They insisted on the invasion and Europe followed their lead and they decided to play as their tail. It is enough to point out that you (Europeans) got in to this war and the American soldiers were exempt from being tried in European courts and this is why my message is addressed to you and not to your politicians.

At the end I would like to remind you that this American deployment is coming to end by the blessing of God and they will go back to their homelands beyond the Atlantic and they will leave the neighbors to finish off their interests among themselves. It is better for you to address these issues with your politicians who are begging at the doorsteps of the White House and work hard on lifting the injustice on the oppressed. Justice is the right thing to do, injustice is suffering. Going back to righteousness is the characteristic of those who think wise; peace be upon those who follow the right path.
Source: Laura Mansfield (http://www.lauramansfield.com/pt/blog/)

[peteweaver]

Why is the FBI so slow in updating their website?

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

http://www.stopviolence.com/images/9-11/binladen.gif

Sept 11th was not regarded as a simple crime, but an act of war.
Therefore it is the US Army, not the FBI, which is after him over the 11/9/2001 (day / month / year format) attacks.

[Undesired Walrus]

My female friend recently said to me, 'I know this is kind of wrong, but Bin Laden is really hot'.

:boggled:

[chillzero]

He also apparently confessed Zionists were behind it.

source?

[T.A.M.]

UBL = AL Capone. Next!

TAM:)

[defaultdotxbe]

He also apparently confessed Zionists were behind it.
how can he "confess" that unless he was the zionist whow as behind it?

Exactly. So what if he did do that?
what if he never does that?

more importantly, what if there were no hypothetical questions?

Sept 11th was not regarded as a simple crime, but an act of war.
Therefore it is the US Army, not the FBI, which is after him over the 11/9/2001 (day / month / year format) attacks.
this is an important distinction to make, the clinton administration treated terrorism as criminal acts, hence the indictments for the 1998 emabassy bombings, the bush admin treats terrorism as an act of war, hence the afghanistan war

BTW did the FBI ever indict hitler for the holocaust or emperor showa for pearl harbor? (although i guess given the nutbars out there these are probably bad examples, lol)

[Drudgewire]

He also apparently confessed Zionists were behind it.
What the hell is wrong with you?

[LastChild]

Funny, like everyone else, I know many people who believe that Osama was behind the attacks of 9/11/01 and nobody who thinks that Saddam was involved. Someday, someone will produce a person who thinks that Saddam was involved.

Posted 9/6/2003 8:10 AM
Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link
WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe it is likely that ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, says a poll out almost two years after the terrorists' strike against this country.

The Harris Poll® #14, February 18, 2005
64 percent believe that Saddam Hussein had strong links to Al Qaeda (up slightly from 62% in November).

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Poll_41_of_Americans_believe_Saddam_0624.html

Number of Americans who believe Saddam-9/11 tie rises to 41 percent
Sunday June 24, 2007
Perhaps most alarmingly, 41% of Americans answered 'Yes' to the question "Do you think Saddam Hussein’s regime in Iraq was directly involved in planning, financing, or carrying out the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001?"

Further, a majority of people couldn't identify Saudia Arabia as the country of origin of most of the 9/11 hijackers, even given the question in multiple choice format. 20% answered Iraq, while 14% believed the hijackers came from Iran.

[TheRedWorm]

Hey LastChild, how does OBL fit into what you think happened on 9/11?

[Dave Rogers]

Number of Americans who believe Saddam-9/11 tie rises to 41 percent
Sunday June 24, 2007


Just pointing out the rather amusing fact that the percentage was 70% in June 2003, 64% in February 2005, then in June 2007 it "rose" to 41%. And also that this just shows how much it proves that a large percentage of the US population believe something to be true. Now what were those Zogby poll numbers?

Dave

[pomeroo]

Just pointing out the rather amusing fact that the percentage was 70% in June 2003, 64% in February 2005, then in June 2007 it "rose" to 41%. And also that this just shows how much it proves that a large percentage of the US population believe something to be true. Now what were those Zogby poll numbers?

Dave


I'm aware of these poll numbers. What strikes me as amazing is the fact that I've never encountered anyone who thought Saddam was involved in the 9/11 attacks. I'd be curious to find out if my experience is unusual.

[Drudgewire]

I'm aware of these poll numbers. What strikes me as amazing is the fact that I've never encountered anyone who thought Saddam was involved in the 9/11 attacks. I'd be curious to find out if my experience is unusual.
I never have either. Zogby must go out of their way to poll shut-ins.

[kageki]

source?

If you scroll down I linked to the interview. My bad though. He just said Jews.

http://www.robert-fisk.com/usama_interview_ummat.htm

[kageki]

I'm aware of these poll numbers. What strikes me as amazing is the fact that I've never encountered anyone who thought Saddam was involved in the 9/11 attacks. I'd be curious to find out if my experience is unusual.

I have. He believed exactly what the government laid out. That Saddam was harboring terrorists etc.

[Coffee]

I'm aware of these poll numbers. What strikes me as amazing is the fact that I've never encountered anyone who thought Saddam was involved in the 9/11 attacks. I'd be curious to find out if my experience is unusual.

I have met one person who thought Saddam was behind 9/11. This person also thought Iraq was in Europe near France. :boggled:

[kageki]

But were they Bolshevik Zionists? Zionist Bolsheviks? Lower upper middle class or upper lower middle class?

(It's important to know these things so we can figure out which synagogue to defile in the morning.)

You know doing something like that is illegal or that there is no such thing as Bolshevik Zionists?

[defaultdotxbe]

I have. He believed exactly what the government laid out. That Saddam was harboring terrorists etc.
harboring terrorists (or paying the families of suicide bombers) doesnt automatically mean 9/11, does this person believe saddam has a connection to 9/11 specifically, or just a connection to terrorism in general? (not saying he doesnt think saddam is connected to 9/11, i just want clarification)

[Foolmewunz]

You know doing something like that is illegal or that there is no such thing as Bolshevik Zionists?

Enlighten me, please! I'm just this crusty old Jew sitting in Hong Kong and dying to know why there are Zionist Bolsheviks and not Bolshevik Zionists. As to torching a Synagogue... Hey, why not? Bring your real desires to the forefront, I say! --- Why play around on the internet with words? Let's get out there and set fire to a few things! I'm sure a few of my buds in the JDL would love to meet with you and discuss it. Or are you just a chicken**** internet troll?

Are you Rea? :spjimlad:

[defaultdotxbe]

there is no such thing as Bolshevik Zionists?

while the two groups are unrelated they dont seem to be mutually exclusive, is there some reason there cant be a bolshevik zionist (or zionist bolshevik)

[MikeW]

If anyone needs it, the full video is now on this page (http://911myths.com/index.php/Responsibility#al_Qaeda_Videos) (bottom of the list, "bin Laden, November 2007").

[kageki]

Enlighten me, please! I'm just this crusty old Jew sitting in Hong Kong and dying to know why there are Zionis Bolsheviks and not Bolshevik Zionists. As to torching a Synagogue... Hey, why not? Bring your real desires to the forefront, I say! --- Why play around on the internet with words? Let's get out there and set fire to a few things! I'm sure a few of my buds in the JDL would love to meet with you and discuss it. Or are you just a chicken**** internet troll?

Are you Rea? :spjimlad:

You can start by looking up the meaning of Bolsheviks and Zionists.

What's wrong with you? Or are you one of those Jews that like to do that and blame it on other people like this girl?

http://video.nbc4.com/player/?id=179503

Do you know who the JDL is?

http://www.rickross.com/groups/jewish_defense.html

I am not a violent person. You seem different though.

[kageki]

harboring terrorists (or paying the families of suicide bombers) doesnt automatically mean 9/11, does this person believe saddam has a connection to 9/11 specifically, or just a connection to terrorism in general? (not saying he doesnt think saddam is connected to 9/11, i just want clarification)


I think he did believe there was a connection to 9/11, but it's been awhile I talked to him.

[kageki]

while the two groups are unrelated they dont seem to be mutually exclusive, is there some reason there cant be a bolshevik zionist (or zionist bolshevik)

I just never heard of it. This is derailing the thread.

[1337m4n]

There is probably legal reasons for why they can't officially list 9/11 on there.

In which case, there is nothing suspicious or questionable about the fact that 9/11 doesn't appear on his Wanted image. :)




I believe this is what is referred to in chess as "checkmate". You are now forced to admit one of two things, both of which are bad news for the Truth Movement.

[kageki]

In which case, there is nothing suspicious or questionable about the fact that 9/11 doesn't appear on his Wanted image. :)




I believe this is what is referred to in chess as "checkmate". You are now forced to admit one of two things, both of which are bad news for the Truth Movement.

What is that? It's only a guess and I was implying there were no legal grounds on charging him for the crime. Why don't you tell me the reason then?

[Foolmewunz]

What is that? It's only a guess and I was implying there were no legal grounds on charging him for the crime. Why don't you tell me the reason then?

Several people have told you the reason, Sparky! You just refuse to listen.

[kageki]

Having looked at the FBI's "facts" page, it appears that you can't be "wanted for" a crime if you're merely the most famous suspected co-conspirator, you have to have been charged with it.

Exactly. He's only a suspect who has not been charged.

[kageki]

Several people have told you the reason, Sparky! You just refuse to listen.

Which is that he is not charged because there is no sufficient grounds to do so?

[Foolmewunz]

Exactly. He's only a suspect who has not been charged.

Semantics. Why do we call him a "terrorist". Maybe "fuzzybunny" would help rehabilitate his image?

[kageki]

Sept 11th was not regarded as a simple crime, but an act of war.
Therefore it is the US Army, not the FBI, which is after him over the 11/9/2001 (day / month / year format) attacks.

proof?

[kageki]

Semantics. Why do we call him a "terrorist". Maybe "fuzzybunny" would help rehabilitate his image?

What? Because he has been charged with prior acts of terrorism. We are talking specifically about 9/11 here. Try not to derail the topic.

[Darth Rotor]

Well it's basically played out as you describe. Osama is not wanted for 9/11 nor is he caught yet.
Your first part, in bold, is false, the second is true. (Hooray, you got something right. Glad to see it happen. :) )

Please go back and note that the original reward for him, from the Embassy Bombings, was 5 million bucks, which was raised to 25 million after the 9-11 attack.

Your reasoning remains abysmal. Your decisions to ignore simple information remains remarkable.

DR

[1337m4n]

What is that? It's only a guess and I was implying there were no legal grounds on charging him for the crime. Why don't you tell me the reason then?

You should be more clear with your meaning, lest people misinterpret you for a fool.

Several people have tried to explain to you the reason, so allow me to play the JAQ game here: Why can't THEY just fake some evidence that Osama did it? If you're with the Truth Movement, then you obviously must believe that the government has no problem faking evidence. And if you're not with the Truth Movement, you wouldn't be concerned with this subject in the way you are.

[kageki]

Your first part, in bold, is false, the second is true. (Hooray, you got something right. Glad to see it happen. :) )

Please go back and note that the original reward for him, from the Embassy Bombings, was 5 million bucks, which was raised to 25 million after the 9-11 attack.

Your reasoning remains abysmal. Your decisions to ignore simple information remains remarkable.

DR

They sometimes up the reward if they haven't caught someone in awhile. Doesn't mean anything. Why isn't the charge listed on the poster?

[kageki]

You should be more clear with your meaning, lest people misinterpret you for a fool.

Several people have tried to explain to you the reason, so allow me to play the JAQ game here: Why can't THEY just fake some evidence that Osama did it? If you're with the Truth Movement, then you obviously must believe that the government has no problem faking evidence. And if you're not with the Truth Movement, you wouldn't be concerned with this subject in the way you are.

Well those passports that allegedly belonged to the terrorists seem "fake". As in stolen identity. Or the Koran that was conspicuously placed in the hijacker's car or whatever. Perhaps those "confessions" are fake?

You are derailing this thread.

[Darth Rotor]

My female friend recently said to me, 'I know this is kind of wrong, but Bin Laden is really hot'.

:boggled:
Not sure about him, but his niece, Wafah Dofour, is pretty enough (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4555430.stm).

DR

[defaultdotxbe]

They sometimes up the reward if they haven't caught someone in awhile. Doesn't mean anything. Why isn't the charge listed on the poster?
and upping it to 5 times its original value after 3 years doesnt seem a bit excessive to you?

shouldnt it have gone to 75 million in 2004 then? and 225 million this year?

as to why the charge isnt listed, i refer you to my previous post:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3200535&postcount=70

[Foolmewunz]

SNIP

You are derailing this thread.


Again? You're accusing people of derailing a thread, the topic of which is "Osama to Truthers: I did it." Your posts are not on the topic of the thread, but on the FBI wanted posters and various other sleight of hand-cum-misdirection issues.

Please address the OP. Osama just said, in a posted cant, that he did it! Stop accusing people of derailing your own derailments.

[Drudgewire]

What's wrong with you? Or are you one of those Jews that like to do that and blame it on other people like this girl?
For the second time this thread... what the hell is wrong with you? :boggled:

[chillzero]

You are derailing this thread.

No, he's not. You are.

[kageki]

For the second time this thread... what the hell is wrong with you? :boggled:

Did you see the news clip?

[kageki]

and upping it to 5 times its original value after 3 years doesnt seem a bit excessive to you?

shouldnt it have gone to 75 million in 2004 then? and 225 million this year?

as to why the charge isnt listed, i refer you to my previous post:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3200535&postcount=70

I like for you to show me evidence that is the exact reason why the FBI has not charged Bin Laden for 9/11. Until then it's just conjecture.

[kageki]

Again? You're accusing people of derailing a thread, the topic of which is "Osama to Truthers: I did it." Your posts are not on the topic of the thread, but on the FBI wanted posters and various other sleight of hand-cum-misdirection issues.

Please address the OP. Osama just said, in a posted cant, that he did it! Stop accusing people of derailing your own derailments.

Why isn't the fact that he is not charged for 9/11 on his wanted poster not relevant to the topic? I have also linked to an interview where he denied responsibility.

[16.5]

While a couple died in the wool twoofers have paid their respects in this thread (the FBI most wanted poster not referring to 9-11, THAT is your smoking gun??) I gotta say, in light of:

1. the Epic Fail of demonstations on 9/11 (yeah, Twoofers, we know you could not make it out, it was raining)

2. the resounding "meh" to Loose Change: The Final COUNTDOWN,

3. the fact that the Twoof movement seems to be being taken over by certified no-planer lunatics.

Adding this statement on top of all of that, and what you see is the final dagger in the Twoof movement in the court of public opinion.

[kageki]

While a couple died in the wool twoofers have paid their respects in this thread (the FBI most wanted poster not referring to 9-11, THAT is your smoking gun??) I gotta say, in light of:

1. the Epic Fail of demonstations on 9/11 (yeah, Twoofers, we know you could not make it out, it was raining)

2. the resounding "meh" to Loose Change: The Final COUNTDOWN,

3. the fact that the Twoof movement seems to be being taken over by certified no-planer lunatics.

Adding this statement on top of all of that, and what you see is the final dagger in the Twoof movement in the court of public opinion.

Has anyone said it was the smoking gun? Basically none of us know why Osama isn't officially charged for 9/11. Noted.

You have nothing else to add to the discussion. Noted.

[defaultdotxbe]

I like for you to show me evidence that is the exact reason why the FBI has not charged Bin Laden for 9/11. Until then it's just conjecture.
do you have any evidence that 9/11 not being listed on the poster is significant in any way? or is that just conjecture too?

[Ocelot]

To recap.

Osama Bin Laden has claimed sole responsibility for the attacks on the 11th of September.

This is one of many of his public confessions.

The FBI, having interviewed co-conspirators have confirmed that they think he did it.

He has not been formally charged with the WTC or pentagon attacks.

He is wanted other prior acts of terrorism.

The wanted poster for the prior acts of terrorism doesn't include the 911 attack.

Everyone agree so far?

We have two hypotheses being raised here.

1) Osama is indeed responsible for the attacks but it hasn't been added to his wanted poster because for some bureaucratic reasons he was never formally charged.

2) The FBI despite confirming to the party line in other public statements have not found enough evidence to formally charge him because Osama is not in fact responsible for the attacks.

Just a suggestion but adherents to the second hypothesis would greatly improve their case if they could find the formal FBI indictment for Kaiser Wilhelm for his responsibility in sinking the Lusitania or for Emperor Hirohito for ordering the attack on Pearl harbour.

If you can’t find them then perhaps you might want to ask yourself why.

[kageki]

do you have any evidence that 9/11 not being listed on the poster is significant in any way? or is that just conjecture too?

Sure it is a conjecture as in a simple question. Let's just leave it at that since none of us can answer it properly.

[kageki]

To recap.

Osama Bin Laden has claimed sole responsibility for the attacks on the 11th of September.

This is one of many of his public confessions.

The FBI, having interviewed co-conspirators have confirmed that they think he did it.

He has not been formally charged with the WTC or pentagon attacks.

He is wanted other prior acts of terrorism.

The wanted poster for the prior acts of terrorism doesn't include the 911 attack.

Everyone agree so far?

We have two hypotheses being raised here.

1) Osama is indeed responsible for the attacks but it hasn't been added to his wanted poster because for some bureaucratic reasons he was never formally charged.

2) The FBI despite confirming to the party line in other public statements have not found enough evidence to formally charge him because Osama is not in fact responsible for the attacks.

Just a suggestion but adherents to the second hypothesis would greatly improve their case if they could find the formal FBI indictment for Kaiser Wilhelm for his responsibility in sinking the Lusitania or for Emperor Hirohito for ordering the attack on Pearl harbour.

If you can’t find them then perhaps you might want to ask yourself why.

You can also add this interview:

http://www.robert-fisk.com/usama_interview_ummat.htm

BTW, your comparison to an act of war is pure conjecture. It's considered a terrorist act as far as I know.

[SDC]

Kageki, in the interest of saving time, could you just cut to the chance and claim that the Jews are behind Osama's confession the other day? Whether via impersonation, or payoffs, or by using a stunt double... Oh, whatever you like.

Thanks.

[Sparky]

Several people have told you the reason, Sparky! You just refuse to listen.

Hey! Don't drag me into this!

[kageki]

Kageki, in the interest of saving time, could you just cut to the chance and claim that the Jews are behind Osama's confession the other day? Whether via impersonation, or payoffs, or by using a stunt double... Oh, whatever you like.

Thanks.

Well Osama claimed in this interview here that Jews and America were behind it:

http://www.robert-fisk.com/usama_interview_ummat.htm

[~enigma~]

BTW, your comparison to an act of war is pure conjecture. It's considered a terrorist act as far as I know.
Apparently you really don't know much...

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2007/09/11/2007-09-11_we_must_always_remember.html

And from your beloved rense...

http://www.rense.com/general65/act.htm

Foolmewunz, this isn't Rei. She has enough brains to be comprehensible. I think in this case we have a poster typing with his prehensile tail.

[Unsecured Coins]

and Rei's kind of a babe too.

[kageki]

Apparently you really don't know much...

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2007/09/11/2007-09-11_we_must_always_remember.html

And from your beloved rense...

http://www.rense.com/general65/act.htm

Foolmewunz, this isn't Rei. She has enough brains to be comprehensible. I think in this case we have a poster typing with his prehensile tail.

Well that first article just makes a conjecture and the Rense article is about an act of treason.

[JAStewart]

It says that Osama is wanted for "terrorist attacks around the world"

Maybe the FBI thinks that 9/11 wasn't a terrorist attack? OMG FBI=CONSPIRACY THEORISTS.

FACT.

[Unsecured Coins]

no he did not

[lapman]

Did you ever think that by charging OBL with every terrorist act would simply create a legal nightmare? OBL's defense team could trail the various trials indefinitely. By only charging him with one crime, the prosecuters only need to concentrate on just one set of evidence and only one conviction. If the outcome is not favorable, then move on to the next indictment.

[kageki]

It says that Osama is wanted for "terrorist attacks around the world"

Maybe the FBI thinks that 9/11 wasn't a terrorist attack? OMG FBI=CONSPIRACY THEORISTS.

FACT.

proof?

[kageki]

Did you ever think that by charging OBL with every terrorist act would simply create a legal nightmare? OBL's defense team could trail the various trials indefinitely. By only charging him with one crime, the prosecuters only need to concentrate on just one set of evidence and only one conviction. If the outcome is not favorable, then move on to the next indictment.

It's not uncommon to charge someone with a long list of indictments. They haven't caught him with anything yet anyways right?

[Ocelot]

You can also add this interview:

http://www.robert-fisk.com/usama_interview_ummat.htm (http://www.robert-fisk.com/usama_interview_ummat.htm)

No I can't

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Ummat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Ummat)

BTW, your comparison to an act of war is pure conjecture. It's considered a terrorist act as far as I know.

Conjecture can be accurate.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1540544.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1540544.stm)

You may think them less than an act of war but the leader of the free world thinks of them as an act of war. That is what has guided policy and it is within that context that we place the FBI's actions. Sad though it may be George Bush is not the sort of guy to worry about legal niceties or even being right.

[Pookster]

Has anyone said it was the smoking gun? Basically none of us know why Osama isn't officially charged for 9/11. Noted.

You have nothing else to add to the discussion. Noted.

True, but Federal prosecutors have no compelling reason to seek an indictment for 9/11 crimes, at this time. Why would they? He's already indicted and wanted by the FBI. Further indictments can come later after he's captured. From a judicial standpoint, at this time, there is no compelling reason to indict him again. Once he's captured, I would expect many other indictments to follow, some of them not even related to 9/11. There's nothing unusual about this.

The discussion is actually rather silly.

[sackett]

Hey, listen here, Gag!Gek!Ew!

I know Rei Masamune. Rei Masamune is my friend. For $20, she was once very kind to me in a darkened pantry.

You, sir, are no Rei Masamune.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Is that proof of something? You forgot the ones who think Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11.

No, it was just a "finger in your eye" reminder that after 6 years, your little movement has only reached 4.6% of the public.

[twinstead]

The fact remains that if OBL was CIA or being framed then why wouldn't They just make up charges? If it were so suspicious that he isn't formally charged with 911, and 911 was this huge conspiracy, then how could not charging him possibly make any sense?

Maybe there's some mundane, non cloak and dagger reason?

Nah, that wouldn't be COOL enough, huh CTers?

[kageki]

No I can't

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Ummat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Ummat)



Conjecture can be accurate.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1540544.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1540544.stm)

You may think them less than an act of war but the leader of the free world thinks of them as an act of war. That is what has guided policy and it is within that context that we place the FBI's actions. Sad though it may be George Bush is not the sort of guy to worry about legal niceties or even being right.

Since it doesn't prove that it's not authentic then it's still on the table. That same reasoning should cast doubt on any of the recent Bin Laden tapes too.

Well this guy was apparently convicted for conspiring the attacks on 9/11:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacarias_Moussaoui

[kageki]

No, it was just a "finger in your eye" reminder that after 6 years, your little movement has only reached 4.6% of the public.

Where are you getting that number from?

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/13469

[Unsecured Coins]

"apparently"

is there evidence that contradicts this? was his conviction fabricated?

[Dr Adequate]

Exactly. He's only a suspect who has not been charged. Wow, I managed to communicate something to a Twoofer.

The reason why he hasn't been indicted of course, is that in order for this to happen, it's not enough merely to prove that (a) al Qaeda is responsible for 9/11 (b) OBL is head of all Qaeda: one must also establish that he gave the orders.

Until then, he can't be indicted.

It's the same reason it's so hard to indict Mafia bosses.

Of course, in the fantasy world in your head there'll be a totally different reason why he hasn't been charged, involving the complete innocence of the filthy murderers who perpetrated 9/11 and the complete non-involvement of al Qaeda in the bloody crimes that they committed, but that's the actual reason.

I guess in your world inability to prove OBL guilty under law is the same as declaring every al Qaeda member innocent, yes? Is that how it works?

You people can be so silly sometimes.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

From the poll commissioned by 911truth.org.
(http://www.911truth.org/images/ZogbyPoll2007.pdf)
402. There are three main schools of thought regarding the 9/11 attacks. The first theory is the official story, and maintains that 19 Arab fundamentalists executed a surprise attack
which caught US intelligence and military forces off guard. The second theory known as Let It Happen argues that certain elements in the US government knew the attacks were
coming but consciously let them proceed for various political, military and economic motives; and the third theory Made It Happen contends that certain US government elements actively planned or assisted some aspects of the attacks. Based upon your knowledge of 9/11 events and their aftermath, which theory are you more likely to agree with?

Made it happen: 4.6%

[kageki]

The fact remains that if OBL was CIA or being framed then why wouldn't They just make up charges? If it were so suspicious that he isn't formally charged with 911, and 911 was this huge conspiracy, then how could not charging him possibly make any sense?

Maybe there's some mundane, non cloak and dagger reason?

Nah, that wouldn't be COOL enough, huh CTers?


Osama pops his head in from time to time invoking terror and inciting fear into the public giving the government carte blanche for doing anything including invading an innocent country.

The point is that they don't want to capture him because he is the perfect bogeyman to have around. This is what is implied if Osama is a CIA asset. Why isn't he still caught if we know where he is hiding?

[lapman]

Where are you getting that number from?

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/13469
From http://www.911truth.org/images/ZogbyPoll2007.pdf

It's a bit more recent than your poll.

The question:
402. There are three main schools of thought regarding the 9/11 attacks. The first theory is the official story, and maintains that 19 Arab fundamentalists executed a surprise attack which caught US intelligence and military forces off guard. The second theory known as Let It Happen argues that certain elements in the US government knew the attacks were coming but consciously let them proceed for various political, military and economic motives; and the third theory Made It Happen contends that certain US government elements actively planned or assisted some aspects of the attacks. Based upon your knowledge of 9/11 events and their aftermath, which theory are you more likely to agree with?

Only 4.6% believe in the "Made It Happen" theory that the twoof movement holds so dear.

[Ocelot]

Since it doesn't prove that it's not authentic then it's still on the table.

That same reasoning should cast doubt on any of the recent Bin Laden tapes too.

On what table. Are you saying that you wish to give the Ummat interrview as much creedence as the multiple video and audio tapes of Osama claiming full responsibility?

You sir are grasping at straws.

Well this guy was apparently convicted for conspiring the attacks on 9/11:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacarias_Moussaoui


What's you point? Are you trying to direct me to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacarias_Moussaoui#Osama_Bin_Laden_response


On May 23, 2006, an audio recording attributed to Osama Bin Laden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_Bin_Laden) said in translation that Moussaoui "had no connection at all with September 11... I am the one in charge of the 19 brothers and I never assigned brother Zacarias to be with them in that mission... Since Zacarias Moussaoui was still learning to fly, he wasn't number 20 in the group, as your government claimed". The voice alleged to be Bin Laden also suggested that Moussaoui's confession was "void" as it was a result of pressures applied during his incarceration.


Yet another case where Osama attempts to shoulder full responsibility.

[twinstead]

It's the same reason it's so hard to indict Mafia bosses.


Indeed. That's why Mafia bosses are usually convicted of unrelated crimes such as tax evasion. If OBL were brought to trial they wouldn't even need to bring 911 into it. It wouldn't be worth the extra effort; they have enough stuff on him without it.

[kageki]

"apparently"

is there evidence that contradicts this? was his conviction fabricated?

No the point is that someone was convicted for 9/11 since people are trying to make up excuses for why Osama isn't charged for it.

If you notice though the conviction was based partly on testimony.

[twinstead]

I would bet that if OBL were to know of the 911 'truth' movement he would get quite the chuckle out of it, then probably be pissed off they are trying to steal his thunder.

Then figure out a way to use them to suit his purposes.

[twinstead]

No the point is that someone was convicted for 9/11 since people are trying to make up excuses for why Osama isn't charged for it.

If you notice though the conviction was based partly on testimony.

Is 'make up excuses' your code word for 'providing rational explanations for'?

[16.5]

"Osama pops his head in from time to time invoking terror and inciting fear into the public giving the government carte blanche for doing anything including invading an innocent country."

An Innocent Country? Just like Japan on Deember 7, 1941, huh?

Oh yeah, you never addressed my question about this announcement being a public relations disaster for the Twoofers.

NOTED.

[kageki]

Wow, I managed to communicate something to a Twoofer.

The reason why he hasn't been indicted of course, is that in order for this to happen, it's not enough merely to prove that (a) al Qaeda is responsible for 9/11 (b) OBL is head of all Qaeda: one must also establish that he gave the orders.

Until then, he can't be indicted.

It's the same reason it's so hard to indict Mafia bosses.

Of course, in the fantasy world in your head there'll be a totally different reason why he hasn't been charged, involving the complete innocence of the filthy murderers who perpetrated 9/11 and the complete non-involvement of al Qaeda in the bloody crimes that they committed, but that's the actual reason.

Well don't you want to be sure of the person that did the crime?

I'm simply making the point as you say is that there is nothing else to make a indictment for Osama. Except in your mind even without any solid evidence other then this "confession" is that Osama did it.

[kageki]

Is 'make up excuses' your code word for 'providing rational explanations for'?

Well I don't find them quite rational.

[kageki]

"Osama pops his head in from time to time invoking terror and inciting fear into the public giving the government carte blanche for doing anything including invading an innocent country."

An Innocent Country? Just like Japan on Deember 7, 1941, huh?

Oh yeah, you never addressed my question about this announcement being a public relations disaster for the Twoofers.

NOTED.

Well the US wasn't entirely innocent compared to Iraq.

The announcement being this "confession"? This is not the first time is it?

[Dr Adequate]

Question for Twoofers.

All Al Capone was ever charged with was tax fraud.

Does this prove the the St Valentine's Day massacre was a false flag attack of which the Mafia were completely innocent?

[lapman]

The other thing is that 9/11 is too well known. The defense team could claim that OBL couldn't get a fair trial since it would be next to impossible to find jury members that didn't know about 9/11. However, it would be easier to find jury members that don't know about the details of the 1998 attack.

[kageki]

On what table. Are you saying that you wish to give the Ummat interrview as much creedence as the multiple video and audio tapes of Osama claiming full responsibility?

You sir are grasping at straws.



What's you point? Are you trying to direct me to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacarias_Moussaoui#Osama_Bin_Laden_response



Yet another case where Osama attempts to shoulder full responsibility.

Yes basically. How do we exactly know about the authenticity of these audio recordings?

It also doesn't trouble you that Moussaoui might be innocent?

[Dave Rogers]

The other thing is that 9/11 is too well known. The defense team could claim that OBL couldn't get a fair trial since it would be next to impossible to finde jury members that didn't know about 9/11.

They could give him a jury of truthers. Most of them don't seem to know a lot about the 9-11 attacks.

Dave

[Dr Adequate]

Well don't you want to be sure of the person that did the crime? Yes. Therefore I agree with the reasons for not indicting him for involvement in 9/11. Even the worst people are entitled to due process.

I'm simply making the point as you say is that there is nothing else to make a indictment for Osama. There is, however, plenty of evidence that the crime was committed by al Qaeda members.

OBL is not the only member of al Qaeda.

Except in your mind even without any solid evidence other then this "confession" is that Osama did it. Could I have that translated into English, please?

[twinstead]

Well I don't find them quite rational.

I've never met an ideologue who didn't think things that conflicted with his world view to be irrational, and that includes both left AND right wing extremists. Do you consider yourself objective?

Do you think it would be easy for your vast conspiracy to officially charge OBL with a 911 no matter what if it is so suspicious that he wasn't?

Don't you see the parallel between his case and Mafia bosses? Are you saying it makes NO sense to you?

[16.5]

"Well the US wasn't entirely innocent compared to Iraq."

Oh yeah, the US totally violated numerous UN resolutions, the Japanese had no other options!

"The announcement being this "confession"? This is not the first time is it?"

Huh, no I guess not. It is gratifying to see you put away your silly Twoofer notions. Well done.

[Dr Adequate]

I notice that you're not answering any of my questions.

Let's repeat a couple of them.

I guess in your world inability to prove OBL guilty under law is the same as declaring every al Qaeda member innocent, yes? Is that how it works?

Question for Twoofers.

All Al Capone was ever charged with was tax fraud.

Does this prove the the St Valentine's Day massacre was a false flag attack of which the Mafia were completely innocent?

[kageki]

Yes. Therefore I agree with the reasons for not indicting him for involvement in 9/11. Even the worst people are entitled to due process.

There is, however, plenty of evidence that the crime was committed by al Qaeda members.

OBL is not the only member of al Qaeda.

Could I have that translated into English, please?

Well don't you believe that Osama did it even though there is no solid evidence other then the confession?

What plenty of evidence?

[kageki]

I've never met an ideologue who didn't think things that conflicted with his world view to be irrational, and that includes both left AND right wing extremists. Do you consider yourself objective?

Do you think it would be easy for your vast conspiracy to officially charge OBL with a 911 no matter what if it is so suspicious that he wasn't?

Don't you see the parallel between his case and Mafia bosses? Are you saying it makes NO sense to you?

I can say the same about you.

The difference is that Mafia bosses never made confessions. So basically you agree that there is no solid evidence to charge Osama with.

If it was so hard to charge someone then why did Moussoui get convicted for 9/11? Apparently you can make charges on this vast conspiracy.

[kageki]

"Well the US wasn't entirely innocent compared to Iraq."

Oh yeah, the US totally violated numerous UN resolutions, the Japanese had no other options!

"The announcement being this "confession"? This is not the first time is it?"

Huh, no I guess not. It is gratifying to see you put away your silly Twoofer notions. Well done.

Well I'm not going to get into WWII here. You also realize that Israel is a repeat offender of UN resolutions as well? That's not justification for invasion by the way.

No it's not the first time and we are wondering if any of it is authentic. I already linked to the interview where he claims he didn't do it.

[kageki]

I notice that you're not answering any of my questions.

Let's repeat a couple of them.

I guess in your world inability to prove OBL guilty under law is the same as declaring every al Qaeda member innocent, yes? Is that how it works?
Originally Posted by Dr Adequate View Post
Question for Twoofers.


No one makes that assertion. Only you.



All Al Capone was ever charged with was tax fraud.

Does this prove the the St Valentine's Day massacre was a false flag attack of which the Mafia were completely innocent?

Members of the gang were busted for that crime.

[twinstead]

I can say the same about you.

The difference is that Mafia bosses never made confessions. So basically you agree that there is no solid evidence to charge Osama with.


A confession must be made to the proper authorities before it can be used to indict somebody for a crime, of course you knew that.

NOW. One more time. Answer my question:

If it is SO suspicious that Osama wasn't charged with the crime, why don't your conspirators simply CHARGE HIM WITH THE CRIME?

[lapman]

If it was so hard to charge someone then why did Moussoui get convicted for 9/11?That is the only thing they could charge him with. Duh.

[kageki]

A confession must be made to the proper authorities before it can be used to indict somebody for a crime, of course you knew that.

NOW. One more time. Answer my question:

If it is SO suspicious that Osama wasn't charged with the crime, why don't your conspirators simply CHARGE HIM WITH THE CRIME?

So then why are we all still blaming Osama for 9/11?

How do we have the authority to charge someone of a crime :confused:

[Dr Adequate]

No one makes that assertion. Only you. I have made no such assertion. I asked a question. Do you ever tell the truth?

Let me rephrase the question so that you can't wriggle out of it.

Would you like to explain what you mean to deduce from the non-indictment of OBL. Is it (a) the innocence of al Qaeda (b) something else that you have not yet specified?

Members of the gang were busted for that crime. Al Qaeda members have also been arrested.

Though of course the main culprits of 9/11 died on 9/11 with their victims.

[Dr Adequate]

So then why are we all still blaming Osama for 9/11?

How do we have the authority to charge someone of a crime :confused: We don't, that would be the courts.

We have the "authority" to blame someone for a crime.

[twinstead]

So then why are we all still blaming Osama for 9/11?

How do we have the authority to charge someone of a crime :confused:

You don't get it.

We, and I mean unofficially just about everybody in the world, accuse him because he ADMITTED IT. He is the spiritual and financial leader of an organization that DID IT. Only courts can CHARGE him.

But, you think 911 was an inside job. Obviously that means you must think Osama is not guilty of it. He's either a Patsy or in on it

So, in order to pull off 911, the government (or whoever you think it was) must be in a position to do just about anything, cover anything up, frame people, alter records and evidence, bully first responders and experts around the world, pull off the largest hoax in the history of the world, and you don't think they could pin a fake charge on Osama?

I'll ask again: I think there is a simple procedural reason why he hasn't been officially charged with 911, much like Al Capone. I see nothing suspicious in it, no cloak-and-dagger stuff there. Boring huh? Anyway, if you disagree and think it is suspicious, then couldn't your all-powerful conspiracy simply make charges up? Heck, according to people who think like you the huge amount of evidence that implicated Al Queda pressented in Moussoui's trial had to have been fabricated. Now THAT'S some power!

Or did the evil conspiracy make the mistake of giving the task of actually charging OBL with the crime so armchair investigators like you wouldn't be suspicious to the same department it gave the task of finding WMD in Iraq. I mean what a bunch of mess ups. All they needed to do is find a chemical weapon or something. Anything to prevent the president from looking like an Idiot (or more like one than he already did). But Noooooo, they messed that one up, and those same folks couldn't even manage to pin a fake charge on a man already hated!

I can imagine that the head of that NWO department lost his corner office in NWO headquarters for that one!

[kageki]

I have made no such assertion. I asked a question. Do you ever tell the truth?

Let me rephrase the question so that you can't wriggle out of it.

Would you like to explain what you mean to deduce from the non-indictment of OBL. Is it (a) the innocence of al Qaeda (b) something else that you have not yet specified?

Al Qaeda members have also been arrested.

Though of course the main culprits of 9/11 died on 9/11 with their victims.

Well if OBL is not indicted then what reasons is there to believe he really did it? These "confessions" just don't seem to have any merit. As someone pointed out the confessions are not sufficient to press charges.

How many other member(s) have been arrested?

[kageki]

We don't, that would be the courts.

We have the "authority" to blame someone for a crime.

Well we don't believe Osama and Al Qaeda was behind it.

[~enigma~]

You also realize that Israel is a repeat offender of UN resolutions as well?Do you believe that if Israel didn't exist 9/11 would not have happened?

[Zlaya]

Personally, I question the timing (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071129/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bin_laden_tape):



Oh, and here's a little quote for the "FBI has no hard evidence tying Osama Bin Laden to 9-11" crowd:



Asked for a comment, Dylan Avery declined to take his head out of the oven.

Really, it's Osama? You people really believe this, especailly after 6 years of proven lies?

Ladies and gentleman, Skepticism has left the building.

Holy crap, walking Zombies!

[Disbelief]

Really, it's Osama? You people really believe this, especailly after 6 years of proven lies?

Ladies and gentleman, Skepticism has left the building.

Holy crap, walking Zombies!

You still buy the many, many lies of the "truth" movement. What does that say about you?

[DGM]

Really, it's Osama? You people really believe this, especailly after 6 years of proven lies?

Ladies and gentleman, Skepticism has left the building.

Holy crap, walking Zombies!
What does the "truthers" lies have to do with anything?

[kageki]

What does the "truthers" lies have to do with anything?

He is talking about government lies.

[Jonnyclueless]

Well we don't believe Osama and Al Qaeda was behind it.

So now are you going to claim there is no evidence of Al Qaeda involvement too? Because you do realize that Bin Laden is the leader right? So please set the record straight.

[kageki]

Do you believe that if Israel didn't exist 9/11 would not have happened?

I don't know. It still could have happened.

[~enigma~]

I don't know. It still could have happened.
If it could have happened if Israel didn't exist then why do you place partial blame on Israel?

[kageki]

So now are you going to claim there is no evidence of Al Qaeda involvement too? Because you do realize that Bin Laden is the leader right? So please set the record straight.

What??

We were just talking about how there is no solid evidence or his confession to be sufficient to indict Osama. Therefore there is no solid reason to believe Osama was behind 9/11.

[Pardalis]

47 posts per day, is denialism your day job, Kageki?

[kageki]

If it could have happened if Israel didn't exist then why do you place partial blame on Israel?

Because since Israel does exist and there is reason to believe rogue elements in the Israeli government is behind it.

This is so mind numbing. Just endless circular logic to deny what is in front of you.

[Disbelief]

He is talking about government lies.

Should we compare what you say are government lies to what we know are "truther" lies?

[DGM]

He is talking about government lies.
You give him too much credit for having any idea what he's talking about.

[twinstead]

Well we don't believe Osama and Al Qaeda was behind it.

Then you have a lot of evidence to the contrary to explain.

[defaultdotxbe]

Because since Israel does exist and there is reason to believe rogue elements in the Israeli government is behind it.

This is so mind numbing. Just endless circular logic to deny what is in front of you.
so you blame israel because it exists?

what reason is there to believe rouge elements are behind 9/11?

[Pardalis]

what reason is there to believe rouge elements are behind 9/11?

You mean Communists? :p

[kageki]

so you blame israel because it exists?

what reason is there to believe rouge elements are behind 9/11?

What????????????

I'm not blaming because it exists. It simply exists.

You can take a look at the numerous conspiracy sites to begin with and you know that.

[defaultdotxbe]

What????????????

I'm not blaming because it exists. It simply exists.

You can take a look at the numerous conspiracy sites to begin with and you know that.
ive read the conspiracy sites, but i asked you why you feel there is reason to suspect israeli involvement, if you are incapable of expressing your own opinions just say so i wont ask you anything else

[kageki]

Then you have a lot of evidence to the contrary to explain.

Well for now we were just establishing that no real evidence exists to implicate Osama and Al Qaeda.

I'm in no mood to go in depth otherwise. You know where to look.

[kageki]

ive read the conspiracy sites, but i asked you why you feel there is reason to suspect israeli involvement, if you are incapable of expressing your own opinions just say so i wont ask you anything else

Because Israel benefited the most.

[kageki]

Should we compare what you say are government lies to what we know are "truther" lies?

Go ahead. The difference is that the truther lies are merely theories.

[Disbelief]

Go ahead. The difference is that the truther lies are merely theories.

No, truther lies are outright falsehoods. Adding explosive sounds to video. Making claims about airphones not being in planes, even after being proven that they were in the planes. "Eyewitnesses" like Mike the EMT and McPadden countdown, er pulses, er no countdown. Truther hero Willie Rodriguez and his changing story.

[Pardalis]

Not to mention the 4000 Israeli lie (actually one of the first 9/11 CTs).

[defaultdotxbe]

Because Israel benefited the most.
thats debatable, but either way i dont see how its evidence of anything

[kageki]

No, truther lies are outright falsehoods. Adding explosive sounds to video. Making claims about airphones not being in planes, even after being proven that they were in the planes. "Eyewitnesses" like Mike the EMT and McPadden countdown, er pulses, er no countdown. Truther hero Willie Rodriguez and his changing story.

They were conjectures which were then proven false. Doesn't mean it's all wrong, but yes some seems like they were wrong.

I find it rather interesting that Rodriguez is friends with James Randi.

[~enigma~]

Because since Israel does exist and there is reason to believe rogue elements in the Israeli government is behind it.

This is so mind numbing. Just endless circular logic to deny what is in front of you.
Do you read your own posts? You first said 9/11 could have happened without Israel existing and now you say elements within the Israeli government were behind 9/11? And you have the idiocy to say I'm using circular logic??

[~enigma~]

Because Israel benefited the most.
Egads...a woo that spreads lies that are totally contrary to the bs truther position that the USA did 9/11 in order to restrict our civil rights. So...how exactly did Israel benefit my anti-Israel (and mostly anti-semitic) friend?

[~enigma~]

thats debatable, but either way i dont see how its evidence of anything
How so?

[kageki]

Do you read your own posts? You first said 9/11 could have happened without Israel existing and now you say elements within the Israeli government were behind 9/11? And you have the idiocy to say I'm using circular logic??

Well anything is technically possible right? Those rogue elements could exist anywhere.

Because you have the idiocy to make up idiotic questions. What's the point of your questions? It happened and Israel does exist.

[Pardalis]

It happened and Israel does exist.

"It" = 9/11?

If so, there's your fallacy.

[~enigma~]

Well anything is technically possible right? Those rogue elements could exist anywhere.

Because you have the idiocy to make up idiotic questions. What's the point of your questions? It happened and Israel does exist.
The elements of the government of Israel would not exist without Israel. Please prove otherwise or just shut your anti-semitic mouth.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Because Israel benefited the most.

Five israeli citizens were killed in the attacks of 9/11.

[kageki]

Egads...a woo that spreads lies that are totally contrary to the bs truther position that the USA did 9/11 in order to restrict our civil rights. So...how exactly did Israel benefit my anti-Israel (and mostly anti-semitic) friend?

What's a woo anyways?

It's not completely contrary, but there are different theories on exactly what happened.

Iraq? Haifa-Mosul pipeline? Now Iran?

[Brainster]

Because Israel benefited the most.

Who benefited the most from Pearl Harbor? The French? Ergo the French must have done it!

[~enigma~]

What's a woo anyways?
Someone who believes foolishness. If the shoe fits...

[Dr Adequate]

Well if OBL is not indicted then what reasons is there to believe he really did it? I do not claim to have proof that he personally was involved in giving the orders. This is not an essential part of the OTC, precisely because of the shortage of definitive proof: the OTC consists only of the verifiable facts.

How many other member(s) have been arrested? I don't know. If you want to know, you can look it up as easily as I can.

[kageki]

Five israeli citizens were killed in the attacks of 9/11.

Yes and? Compare that to the rest of the victims.

[~enigma~]

Iraq? Haifa-Mosul pipeline? Now Iran?
Want to provide pictures of the pipeline? I'll wait...[queue Jeopardy theme]

[Oliver]

Well anything is technically possible right? Those rogue elements could exist anywhere.

Because you have the idiocy to make up idiotic questions. What's the point of your questions? It happened and Israel does exist.


Israel surely is part of it. Even if the Media refuses to quote these
parts of Osama's statements as well. (Coward-Media)

Anyway: The evidence that Osama and his Friends were behind
the whole thing is overwhelming ... In contrast to Tim Osman and
some other opinions without any basis ...

BTW: I live in Germany - so ***** Bush and his Idiots.

Oliver, mask profanity properly in the public sections, if you really have to use it at all.

[kageki]

The elements of the government of Israel would not exist without Israel. Please prove otherwise or just shut your anti-semitic mouth.

You do know that Zionist organizations existed before Israel?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917

[Dr Adequate]

Well don't you believe that Osama did it even though there is no solid evidence other then the confession? "Did it"? No, I believe that the 19 hijackers "did it".

I think that it is probable that the head of their organisation had foreknowledge, but that there is as yet insufficient evidence to indict him as a co-conspirator.

What plenty of evidence? All the evidence showing that the 19 hijackers were affiliated with al Qaeda.

[kageki]

Want to provide pictures of the pipeline? I'll wait...[queue Jeopardy theme]

It's in the works. Honestly can you bother trying to look up anything?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=332835

[kageki]

"Did it". No, I bleive that the 19 hijackers "did it".

I think that it is probable that the head of their organisation had foreknowledge, but that there is as yet insufficient evidence to indict him as a co-conspirator.

All the evidence showing that the 19 hijackers were affiliated with al Qaeda.

Again what evidence. Please provide it.

[~enigma~]

You do know that Zionist organizations existed before Israel?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917
You didn't say zionists. Need I copy and paste your post where you clearly said elements of the Israaeligovernment? Since this exchange proves to me you are a worthless piece of anti-semitic trash who is incapable of admitting their error, welcome to ignore.

[Oliver]

This thread is off-topic as soon as we shift to the Jews.
Start a new thread about Osama and his views about Jews.

This thread is about who did it ... AKA: Osama: "It was me".

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Yes and? Compare that to the rest of the victims.

Right... I forgot, they were just jews and therefore no loss to anyone... even other jews. /sarcasm

May a large cross collapse on top of you solely due to fire.

[Dr Adequate]

Well for now we were just establishing that no real evidence exists to implicate Osama and Al Qaeda. But this is not true.

What we have explained to you, and it took a while, is that there is insufficient evidence to indict Osama.

This has nothing to do with establishing that "no real evidence exists to implicate Osama" (he is, after all, a prime suspect, implicated up to his neck) and nothing to do with whether there's enough evidence to pin 9/11 firmly on Al Qaeda.

Let me know if there's anything difficult in there that you don't understand.

[twinstead]

Sadly, I see this thread heading down the slippery slope to moderationville.

[kageki]

You didn't say zionists. Need I copy and paste your post where you clearly said elements of the Israaeligovernment? Since this exchange proves to me you are a worthless piece of anti-semitic trash who is incapable of admitting their error, welcome to ignore.

Well the hardcore ones are basically rogue elements.

Both the Israeli government and organizations like AIPAC are highly unpopular amongst the larger Jewish community.

[Dr Adequate]

Again what evidence. Please provide it. Again, you can look this up as easily as I can, it's not like it's a secret.

[kageki]

Right... I forgot, they were just jews and therefore no loss to anyone... even other jews. /sarcasm

May a large cross collapse on top of you solely due to fire.

You also seem to be saying all the other non-Jews don't matter.

[kageki]

But this is not true.

What we have explained to you, and it took a while, is that there is insufficient evidence to indict Osama.

This has nothing to do with establishing that "no real evidence exists to implicate Osama" (he is, after all, a prime suspect, implicated up to his neck) and nothing to do with whether there's enough evidence to pin 9/11 firmly on Al Qaeda.

Let me know if there's anything difficult in there that you don't understand.

A suspect that has not been charged for the crime.

Ok I'll leave out Al Qaeda for now.

[Dr Adequate]

Because Israel benefited the most. And you came by this information how? Did you just make it up, or was some other method of reaching this conclusion employed?

[Pardalis]

You also seem to be saying all the other non-Jews don't matter.

That's not what he's saying at all. You said Israel benefited from 9/11. Try to follow the conversation.

[kageki]

"Did it"? No, I believe that the 19 hijackers "did it".

I think that it is probable that the head of their organisation had foreknowledge, but that there is as yet insufficient evidence to indict him as a co-conspirator.

All the evidence showing that the 19 hijackers were affiliated with al Qaeda.

So basically the government is pursuing a conspiracy theory.

What evidence? The passports?

[Drudgewire]

And you came by this information how? Did you just make it up, or was some other method of reaching this conclusion employed?
They're jews. They benefit ANY TIME they are able to trick us into thinking some poor leader is a mass murderer. :rolleyes:

[kageki]

That's not what he's saying at all. You said Israel benefited from 9/11. Try to follow the conversation.

I don't understand how 5 Israelis dying has anything to do with Israel benefiting. If the US government was also in on it then they sacrificed far more people. It doesn't disprove that they were in on it.

[kageki]

And you came by this information how? Did you just make it up, or was some other method of reaching this conclusion employed?

The numerous websites detailing their own 9/11 investigations. It's kind of pointless asking this question when you know where to look.

Even without that it's obvious Israel benefited tremendously. If not for the sympathy evoked by crazy, suicidal Arabs committing the biggest terrorist attack in history.

[Dr Adequate]

A suspect that has not been charged for the crime. Yes, for reasons that I have carefully explained to you and that you have no excuse for not understanding.

[Dr Adequate]

The numerous websites detailing their own 9/11 investigations. It's kind of pointless asking this question when you know where to look. Ah, as I suspected, you claim that "Israel benefitted the most", because other crazy people told you it was true.

I'll hazard another guess: none of them quantified "benefit" in any way, am I right?

[Dr Adequate]

So basically the government is pursuing a conspiracy theory. Except that the phrase "conspiracy theory" tends to imply that the "conspiracy" is an imaginary delusion existing only in the minds of crazy people, whereas the existence of al Qaeda is a fact.

So what they're pursuing is not so much a "conspiracy theory" as a conspiracy.

[Drudgewire]

Even without that it's obvious Israel benefited tremendously. If not for the sympathy evoked by crazy, suicidal Arabs committing the biggest terrorist attack in history.
You mean the attack on the Twin Towers in Tel Aviv? :confused:

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I don't understand how 5 Israelis dying has anything to do with Israel benefiting.

The raw hatred underlying this statement is truly staggering.

[T.A.M.]

I'll assume, as usual, that pages 2 through 7 are essential the same crap as page #1, so here you go again....

UBL/OBL = AL CAPONE

Next!!!!!!!

TAM:)

[SDC]

Well the hardcore ones are basically rogue elements.

Both the Israeli government and organizations like AIPAC are highly unpopular amongst the larger Jewish community.

Sources, please. Heard this down at the Gruppenfuhrer Community Club?

In your mind, I expect this means, "the larger Jewish community wants to get rid of Israel, just like me!"

In fact, to many (including me), it means that we don't like aspects of the politics. I don't like Bush's politics, but it doesn't mean I want to abolish the US.

Edit: Darn it, I apologize for speaking off-topic. In my defense, Kageki lured me away. If the mods wish to punish me, well, they know where I live. (Or not.)

[twinstead]

Again what evidence. Please provide it.

The evidence presented in Moussoui's trial is a matter of public record. That is just the tip of the iceberg of the evidence, but it is a good start. Do your homework.

Besides, any good investigator needs to know all sides of the story right? You DO know exactly what evidence the 'official story' presents, right? I mean you certainly can't think that some government spokesman just told us what to believe with nothing to back it up and we just believed no questions asked, right?

I mean you wouldn't be arguing against a position you don't even know, right?

Right?

[kageki]

Sources, please. Heard this down at the Gruppenfuhrer Community Club?

In your mind, I expect this means, "the larger Jewish community wants to get rid of Israel, just like me!"

In fact, to many (including me), it means that we don't like aspects of the politics. I don't like Bush's politics, but it doesn't mean I want to abolish the US.

Edit: Darn it, I apologize for speaking off-topic. In my defense, Kageki lured me away. If the mods wish to punish me, well, they know where I live. (Or not.)

No it doesn't mean they are against Israel necessarily. The ignorance of politics and world affairs here is mesmerizing.

Right now for instance the Israel Lobby has been one of the most vocal proponents for Iraq and also now Iran. The larger Jewish community has been against the war.

It is apparently common knowledge that the Israeli government is highly unpopular amongst the people over there.

[kageki]

You mean the attack on the Twin Towers in Tel Aviv? :confused:

Sure all the past attacks have helped to create sympathy for Israelis. Now it's over the edge since 9/11.

[kageki]

The raw hatred underlying this statement is truly staggering.

I have no hatred just because they are Israelis. I was just saying how this doesn't discount the idea that Israel benefited.

[kageki]

Ah, as I suspected, you claim that "Israel benefitted the most", because other crazy people told you it was true.

I'll hazard another guess: none of them quantified "benefit" in any way, am I right?

I did that already. Iraq and now Iran. The construction of the Haifa-Mosul pipeline. Basically just imagine that Israel also has control over Iraq now.

[kageki]

The evidence presented in Moussoui's trial is a matter of public record. That is just the tip of the iceberg of the evidence, but it is a good start. Do your homework.

Besides, any good investigator needs to know all sides of the story right? You DO know exactly what evidence the 'official story' presents, right? I mean you certainly can't think that some government spokesman just told us what to believe with nothing to back it up and we just believed no questions asked, right?

I mean you wouldn't be arguing against a position you don't even know, right?

Right?

They can make up evidence though.

I mean you still believe Oswald shot JFK right? :rolleyes:

[kageki]

I'll assume, as usual, that pages 2 through 7 are essential the same crap as page #1, so here you go again....

UBL/OBL = AL CAPONE

Next!!!!!!!

TAM:)

Is there solid evidence to indict Osama for the WTC bombing or any other of the crimes he's wanted for?

Was there ever a wanted poster for Capone?

[Sporanox]

No it doesn't mean they are against Israel necessarily. The ignorance of politics and world affairs here is mesmerizing.

Right now for instance the Israel Lobby has been one of the most vocal proponents for Iraq and also now Iran. The larger Jewish community has been against the war.

It is apparently common knowledge that the Israeli government is highly unpopular amongst the people over there.

Emphasis mine. Kind of a funny word to use.

A Jewish expert? It must be handy to be able to just source yourself whenever somebody asks for proof.

Oh by the way could you please give us some sources anyway?

-Sporanox

[kageki]

Emphasis mine. Kind of a funny word to use.

A Jewish expert? It must be handy to be able to just source yourself whenever somebody asks for proof.

Oh by the way could you please give us some sources anyway?

-Sporanox

It's common knowledge just like the evidence for 9/11. I've heard this on a variety of radio shows including from someone like Abe Foxman.

Do your own research.

[Darth Rotor]

I did that already. Iraq and now Iran. The construction of the Haifa-Mosul pipeline. Basically just imagine that Israel also has control over Iraq now.
I'd rather imagine a world in which you rented a clue.

You have derailed again, in insinuating without evidence that Israel now controls Iraq, from the topic of Osama sending out a public message that he and his group did the 9-11 attack, and his justification for doing so. Part of his stated justification, now and in previous justifications for other attacks, is the Pal Israel situation in the Holy Land.

What is curious to me is that after seven pages of give and take, you seem to have ignored a lot of patiently provided input and suggestions for further study. Granted, some of the responses have been less patient.

What is your purpose in this conversation, when you ignore some well couched and presented information?

What is your aim? Osama's own efforts in getting his message out provides considerable clarity on the topic of motivation, and his justification, for the attacks on 9-11.

Another poster has mentioned a point I was going to offer, the public record of the Moussoui trial.

This is corroborative evidence in support of what Osama has presented through his various information releases.

Your position is dead in the water. Your continued argument from ignorance ought to embarass you?

Why doesn't it?

DR

[Gravy]

Is there solid evidence to indict Osama for the WTC bombing or any other of the crimes he's wanted for? He's not wanted for the WTC bombing, which was not an al Qaeda operation. However, you can read the indictment against Osama and others for the African embassy bombings here (http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/binladen/usbinladen-1a.pdf) (pdf).

[Sporanox]

It's common knowledge just like the evidence for 9/11. I've heard this on a variety of radio shows including from someone like Abe Foxman.

Do your own research.

Burden of proof is applicable here. You are burdened to provide me the evidence, because you made the statement in need of proof. And no, you cannot cite yourself.

Telling me to go look up Abe Foxman brings on a wealth of information that I'm not disposed to sort through...

-Sporanox

[~enigma~]

You mean the attack on the Twin Towers in Tel Aviv? :confused:
I thought she lived in Haifa...

[kageki]

I'd rather imagine a world in which you rented a clue.

You have derailed again, in insinuating without evidence that Israel now controls Iraq, from the topic of Osama sending out a public message that he and his group did the 9-11 attack, and his justification for doing so. Part of his stated justification, now and in previous justifications for other attacks, is the Pal Israel situation in the Holy Land.

What is curious to me is that after seven pages of give and take, you seem to have ignored a lot of patiently provided input and suggestions for further study. Granted, some of the responses have been less patient.

What is your purpose in this conversation, when you ignore some well couched and presented information?

What is your aim? Osama's own efforts in getting his message out provides considerable clarity on the topic of motivation, and his justification, for the attacks on 9-11.

Another poster has mentioned a point I was going to offer, the public record of the Moussoui trial.

This is corroborative evidence in support of what Osama has presented through his various information releases.

Your position is dead in the water. Your continued argument from ignorance ought to embarass you?

Why doesn't it?

DR

I have always RESPONDED to poster's questions.

Well you can't have it both ways. Osama did apparently say Moussaoui's testimony is not legit and is not part of Al Qaeda. You ignore that and I haven't ignored everything either.

Basically you're just saying the reason Osama is not wanted is by comparing it Al Capone right? Did I miss anything else? We also established that no real evidence exists to indict him either BESIDES the confession.

[Drudgewire]

Sure all the past attacks have helped to create sympathy for Israelis. Now it's over the edge since 9/11.
Funny how terrorist attacks on innocent people because they hate Jews will do that, huh?

[kageki]

Burden of proof is applicable here. You are burdened to provide me the evidence, because you made the statement in need of proof. And no, you cannot cite yourself.

Telling me to go look up Abe Foxman brings on a wealth of information that I'm not disposed to sort through...

-Sporanox

Maybe you should because you don't seem to know much.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/03/israeli_elections_could_be_cal.php

[Sporanox]

Maybe you should because you don't seem to know much.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/03/is...uld_be_cal.php

LOL what a red herring. This is the proof of this statement?


Right now for instance the Israel Lobby has been one of the most vocal proponents for Iraq and also now Iran. The larger Jewish community has been against the war.

I'm going to go through this.

1: The article isn't even by an Israeli. It's by a guy who went there for a bit and brought back his perception...wait...he didn't even go there.

2: The article is about Israelis inside Israel. Not the larger Jewish community.

3: The article is talking about disapproval with the Olmert government. Nowhere does it mention that the disapproval is due to the war in Iraq.

4: The article mentions that a likely candidate to replace Olmert, should such a scenario even exist, would be the conservative party. This part is important: the CONSERVATIVE party. They're not the ones who want the whole "pull out of Gaza" strategy.

5: I seem to recall the major reason Israelis were disappointed with the Olmert government from reading Time's coverage. It was because he didn't kick Hezbollah's bum good enough in the Lebanon summer war. Not Iran.

6: The article's from March. Olmert is still in power. You might want more current information.

-Sporanox

[kageki]

Funny how terrorist attacks on innocent people because they hate Jews will do that, huh?

Well they actually don't hate Jews because they are Jews. If you didn't know Jews were living peacefully in that region for centuries. Everything started with Israel.

This is the latest on the Lockerbie bombing which is as it stands blamed on 2 Libyans:

http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?article_class=3&no=380695&rel_no=1

New evidence shows that the evidence used to indict these people were false meaning these people are most likely innocent.

Starting to catch the drift?

[Corsair 115]

If I may interject for a moment, kageki, have you abandoned the Pearl Harbor thread?

[Drudgewire]

Well they actually don't hate Jews because they are Jews. If you didn't know Jews were living peacefully in that region for centuries. Everything started with Israel.

This is the latest on the Lockerbie bombing which is as it stands blamed on 2 Libyans:

http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?article_class=3&no=380695&rel_no=1

New evidence shows that the evidence used to indict these people were false meaning these people are most likely innocent.

Starting to catch the drift?
Actually it's the same old, long debunked and hate-fueled evidence you guys have spouted for years.

And before Israel no one had a problem with the Jews? Are you out of your [rule10]ing mind?